Three suggestions that will FIX coercer's.

[Grimlux]

<ul><li>Remove Thoughtstones from the game completely. If a spell "requires" one, give it a cooldown instead to compensate. No, I do not need over one thousand thoughtstones in my bag after joining a group for 2 or 3 hours. </li><li>Give charmed pets a new "Pet Only" buff that increases their hatred more. How much more? Enough so that I can be flexible with casting spells that dont get me killed more often then not when I am soloing. Currently, I can only "sometimes" cast one spell and acquire no hatred from my mob.</li><li>Change the mechanic's of mezmerize completely. Keep the spell and its utility, but instead take the target out of the game for a period of time. You, nor anyone else can attack the mezmerized mob and it cannot attack you. When the duration is up, you can either re-mezmerize your target or have your group deal with the mob. </li></ul><p>This seems highly reasonable and feasible suggestions. Just my 2 cents.</p>

[Kiintac]

Grimlux don't take this personally, but these are the LEAST of a coercer's concerns.   I agree what you stated<b> </b>would be very helpful,<b> </b>but having <b><u>reactives work when a person (raid tank) or myself resists or dodges the attack would make a WORLD of differences </u></b>!!!    My raid DPS would go way up, PvP would be tons better and AGI/defense would have a purpose, other than letting us avoid an attack and do no damage.Most people know that the whole concept of the Coercers is messed up.....I have the ability to stun, but to do most of my damage the mob/person needs to hit me or my pet.....what the ...... ?????????However, at the same time I have learned to enjoy this concept, but find my low raid DPS (versus from what I see Illusionists state)  and low survivability in PvP frustrating.   PvP is more frustrating, because when I should be able to kill someone, but do not have the DPS to take them down fast enough without them hitting me, which with my low armor and health, takes me down just as fast.At first I thought this would be hard for SOE to implement, but then I see an Inquisitor spell (my alt) that has a spell that causes damage whenever someone uses a CA.   I have yet to use the spell, but from the spell description is sounds like even if I would dodge the CA, the person attacking would still take damage.   I will get back to you if this actually works.   But if it does, why not make our reactives do the same.    A person attempts to hit you, attempts to use a CA/spell on you but it resists/dodges.   In either case, the person attacking takes damage.    Another important area that needs fixed is to make our power reactive to actually do something on mobs.   SOE's improvement to add a DOT to the end of it but extend the duration in our AA, is once again counter-intuitive.   I have yet to see that reactive to last long enough to cause that end DOT damage, unless it is on an EPIC !!These issues are so obvious, I just don't get it.   Why doesn't SOE change anything      ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????It is stupid I know, but if I start thinking about these issues, I get sooo extremely frustrated (more like boiling mad), that SOE can just ignore paying customers.Seriously, are we not a mage class, why can't we do damage  (monks  (a tank of all things) can) ????

[Grimlux]

<p>I completely understand Calek. Of course, I truly do not claim master of this class as I have gotten my coercer 1/2 way to end game. Being unique and fighting differently is great and being inneffective is not. I do love the coercer class, but I think we can both agree it will need a small overhaul.</p><p>Nothing makes me more annoyed then charming a mob, sending it in, watching my charmed pet's health fade to 50%, casting one spell, getting aggro, most often dying. *shakes fist in air*</p><p>As I do not PVP in this game, I cannot even begin to imagine the frustration there. One thing though in all my experience with MMO's is that constructive and positive feedback is generally responded to or given notice of current states a class may be in. It may take awhile, but without this nothing could ever change. </p>

[Oriax]

The class is what it is. Thats what makes it a Coercer instead of a Wizard, Warlock or any other mage class. I don't have any problems at all playing the Coercer (non PVP server). I use Enraging Demeanor on the pet, root target let pet attack from ranged or melee first then I start with reactives before using damage spells. I manage just fine using this method. I don't aggree that reactive should deal damage if the mob doesn't land an attack. The spell plainly states that on a successful spell or attack. Should a mob be damage just for trying to attack but fails? Nope doesn't make sense to me. Even if the mob lands a ranged attack on you or your pet the reactives will still deal damage. I can agree with with Grimlux on the thoughtstone part. I'm sick of destroying stacks and stacks of those things all the time. Changing mezz to where neither the mob nor other players can attack it will just make the game to easy. If you got an idiot in the group constantly breaking mezz then let him take the aggro and die, remezz the mob after. There have been countless times I would be the last man standing and have to finish off the encounter alone. Now if we as a Coercer can manage that now then I see no reason why SoE should make the class even more powerful (sounds wierd but true). Patience is they key with a Coercer, just don't expect to be able to go in a burn everything down before it burns you like some of the other classes.

[Outerspace]

I have to agree with you Oriax.Im amazed that people are complaining about peeling from their pet. Some quick tips on general play (Oriax said most of these anyway):- For fast aggro generation, get a caster pet that opens with big nukes (warlock, wizard, illusionist, fury)- Cast Enraging Demeanour on your pet- Drop some buffs and cast Harmonious Link on yourself- Make sure you debuff the mobs with Psyche and Breakdown- SOE gave you stuns for a reason - use them!- Root mobs away from you and send your pet in to get the first few hits- Use the Ego line of spells to disable autoattack of the mob you are fighting- Mind bend is helpful to keep your pet aliveRemember folks, this isn't a summoner class: you can't just send your pet in and go AFK to win. All pets you charm should be looked at as supplementary DPS, not tanks. In RoK it seems melee pets are a bit better than they were but casters are still light years ahead: they have just as much health but do considerably more DPS.On the topic, I do think Cataclysmic Mind needs looking at. Maybe make it a small power drain DoT whilst its active, or perhaps a health drain. Having the reactives go off on dodge/parry and so on seems overpowered so I'm not sure I'd go for that. I understand the frustration of being in PvP and having some classes that can effectively one-shot you and all you can do is sit there hoping they cast a spell and take a small amount of damage, but you have to remember coercer is not a DPS class, it's more a support/buff/crowd control class. Sure take away the stuns, mez, mana regen, charm and buff your nukes and you'd be a wizard. But if you want that, go and roll one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Grimlux]

<p>I dont feel as if I am complaining about peeling from my pet but the threat generation seems extremely silly. Last night I sent a charmed mob in, waited about 5 seconds, hit my Heroic opportunity button, and got aggro. No damage was done, just the HO button. Is this intended? I'll be the first in line to say that I am glad that Coercer's are unique (as stated above). While I agree that we have all this utility and should be using it but there are times I even struggle to keep my pet charmed and the 2nd mob off me, this usually ends in death. I do not mind dying but when your getting killed by green mobs and quests are taking 3x the time any other class are taking then I see this as a potential time to look at what could be causing this. The suggestion with the pet generating a bit more threat then it does currently will allow us to be more flexible (Flexible, not go crazy) and not attain aggro off your first spell, or even your first Heroic oppurtunity opener.</p><p>I leveled a Templar to 70, that took long enough. *grin*</p>

[Signal9]

<p>Here's the problem:  A Coercer's existance generates aggro in all mobs near him.  Everytime your power regen ticks, you get healed. (power heal is what regen is doing), and you get aggro from that.  Even stunning the mobs often result in them beelining for you as soon as the stun is done.</p><p>You are failing to use one simple tool that makes worlds of difference.  Root.  Root the mob, send in pet, nuke, nuke, stun when root breaks, re-root, back off, nuke, nuke, nuke, profit.</p><p>We have a lot of flexability, and have to adjust to just about any situation, but at the core of killing mobs, it is boringly routine.  Root, pet, nuke, profit.</p><p>When the mob is rooted your pet will hold aggro very well.  Often well enough to keep aggro when root breaks, unless you're going all out on the mob.  but, keeping it rooted, keeps it beating on your pet for your reactives, instead of eating your face.</p>

[Encantador]

<cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's the problem:  A Coercer's existance generates aggro in all mobs near him.  Everytime your power regen ticks, you get healed. (power heal is what regen is doing), and you get aggro from that.  Even stunning the mobs often result in them beelining for you as soon as the stun is done.</p><p>.....</p></blockquote><p>Power regens do NOT generate aggro. That was taken out of the game many many updates ago.</p><p>Stuns do.</p><p>I presume the people saying Auspex and its ilk are ok, do not play with a high avoidance tank ? All of you omit to mention Spell Scourge. Both have the same problem, they do not proc enough. If you think they proc about right now then the full fix for Auspex is to change the chance to proc to something appropriate but make it attempt to proc on all mob attacks. I fail to see why I should lose DPS when I play with a better equipped tank and why should I be penalised for playing with a brawler.</p>

[Kiintac]

<cite>Encantador wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's the problem:  A Coercer's existance generates aggro in all mobs near him.  Everytime your power regen ticks, you get healed. (power heal is what regen is doing), and you get aggro from that.  Even stunning the mobs often result in them beelining for you as soon as the stun is done.</p><p>.....</p></blockquote><p>Power regens do NOT generate aggro. That was taken out of the game many many updates ago.</p><p>Stuns do.</p><p>I presume the people saying Auspex and its ilk are ok, do not play with a high avoidance tank ? All of you omit to mention Spell Scourge. Both have the same problem, they do not proc enough. If you think they proc about right now then the full fix for Auspex is to change the chance to proc to something appropriate but make it attempt to proc on all mob attacks. I fail to see why I should lose DPS when I play with a better equipped tank and why should I be penalised for playing with a brawler.</p></blockquote>         Encantador this is the basis of my comment after the OP.   I hate playing with Bruisers !

[Outerspace]

Personally I don't really have a problem with spell scourge, seems to go off reasonably often unless the fights are very short. It's pretty obvious that Auspex wont be buffed in the way you guys want. If it procs on every swing from the mob thats about 1000 DPS from that ability alone.If you want high nukes or high constant DPS either get a decent pet or roll a DPS class.

[Dorf]

I like Coercer they way they are pretty much.  I deffinatly agree about the thoughtstones however.  It took me till about lvl 65 or so to really learn the class, before that i thought it sucked, but i wanted to get it max lvl anyways, and now i'm really glad I did.  I wouldnt change the mechanics at all, it works.  You may be limited somewhat with the zones where you really shine, but I can solo anything given the time.  So far in Kunark, I solo better and faster than my pally or my wiz (all 70+).  Its all about learning the right strat, caster pets are always best, use /pet ranged, and root.  Cast reactives just incase the mob breaks root and heads for you or your pet, atleast it will take some damage for hitting you or your pet if it gets loose (like being punished for breaking root <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  I like the class basicly the way it is, its different, and challenging. 

[Obsidiann]

Another long winded post about what coercers need <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I don't think anyone who can make a difference bothers reading these any more.

[Ibunubi]

<cite>Encantador wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's the problem:  A Coercer's existance generates aggro in all mobs near him.  Everytime your power regen ticks, you get healed. (power heal is what regen is doing), and you get aggro from that.  Even stunning the mobs often result in them beelining for you as soon as the stun is done.</p><p>.....</p></blockquote><p>Power regens do NOT generate aggro. That was taken out of the game many many updates ago.</p><p>Stuns do.</p><p>I presume the people saying Auspex and its ilk are ok, do not play with a high avoidance tank ? All of you omit to mention Spell Scourge. Both have the same problem, they do not proc enough. If you think they proc about right now then the full fix for Auspex is to change the chance to proc to something appropriate but make it attempt to proc on all mob attacks. I fail to see why I should lose DPS when I play with a better equipped tank and why should I be penalised for playing with a brawler.</p></blockquote><p>I have gotten snap aggro from raid spawns because Gorging Thoughts was ticking on the MT group when it spawned. There was one case where I actually got aggro from hitting Channel.</p><p>I have seen a few heroic mobs so far in RoK that Cataclysmic Mind definitely hits. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Turb]

<p>The toughtstone thing should be removed.</p><p>On aggro, if you use a melee pet use hate buff and dps buff on it.    Use your stun attack that will proc up to 5 times for 4 seconds on each successful attack.     Coercers can pretty much perma stun, so you can stop a mob ever moving towards you, even if root breaks.</p>

[Obsidiann]

Thoughtstones are such a minor inconvenience, especially compared to how much of a pain in the [Removed for Content] nil crystals and the necro items are. Necros and warlocks have the opposite problem- they have to cast crappy spells to even receive these items.I would much rather have too many of them... it takes <5 seconds to destroy stacks in your inventory. Would you rather be forced to cast some silly curse you never use in order to get one of these per mob? I don't think so.

[Ganeden]

as someone else said, those aren't big worries. Thoughstones are annoying and pretty useless, but they aren't really a make it or break it ability. agro from charmed pets isn't a big deal, we already have a spell to increase their agro. We can also root/stun/stifle them to where it doesn't matter.I like the mez idea, if they ever lifted the ridiculous concentration slot requirements for our spells it would be nice to have a mez that you couldn't recast on anyone but could keep a mob perma mezed until you cancelled it or it was hit and used a concentration slot.I'd like our pets to be full power. Or the ability to "bottle" a pet and resummon it elsewhere (maybe for limited durations, or you could summon a lore item with five charges of that pet). Maybe a awesome buff for more hps/dps but would cost two concentration. Have the ability to take pets anywhere in the world. Make posses useable on our charmed pet for like five minutes or something so we had real control over the thing and not just a fleeting glance and what it could do.Any of those things would be an awesome "fix" for charm IMO.

[Ganeden]

<cite>Calek@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grimlux don't take this personally, but these are the LEAST of a coercer's concerns.   I agree what you stated<b> </b>would be very helpful,<b> </b>but having <b><u>reactives work when a person (raid tank) or myself resists or dodges the attack would make a WORLD of differences </u></b>!!!    My raid DPS would go way up, PvP would be tons better and AGI/defense would have a purpose, other than letting us avoid an attack and do no damage.Most people know that the whole concept of the Coercers is messed up.....I have the ability to stun, but to do most of my damage the mob/person needs to hit me or my pet.....what the ...... ?????????However, at the same time I have learned to enjoy this concept, but find my low raid DPS (versus from what I see Illusionists state)  and low survivability in PvP frustrating.   PvP is more frustrating, because when I should be able to kill someone, but do not have the DPS to take them down fast enough without them hitting me, which with my low armor and health, takes me down just as fast.At first I thought this would be hard for SOE to implement, but then I see an Inquisitor spell (my alt) that has a spell that causes damage whenever someone uses a CA.   I have yet to use the spell, but from the spell description is sounds like even if I would dodge the CA, the person attacking would still take damage.   I will get back to you if this actually works.   But if it does, why not make our reactives do the same.    A person attempts to hit you, attempts to use a CA/spell on you but it resists/dodges.   In either case, the person attacking takes damage.    Another important area that needs fixed is to make our power reactive to actually do something on mobs.   SOE's improvement to add a DOT to the end of it but extend the duration in our AA, is once again counter-intuitive.   I have yet to see that reactive to last long enough to cause that end DOT damage, unless it is on an EPIC !!These issues are so obvious, I just don't get it.   Why doesn't SOE change anything      ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????It is stupid I know, but if I start thinking about these issues, I get sooo extremely frustrated (more like boiling mad), that SOE can just ignore paying customers.Seriously, are we not a mage class, why can't we do damage  (monks  (a tank of all things) can) ????</blockquote>Please don't bring other classes into this. I have a 75 bruiser and I can promise that we're gimped in many ways. An equalled geared SK or Zerker can outdps us in 50% of encounters and don't even get me started on our tanking. A dev said at the most recent Fan Faire that "getting avoidance tanks to be viable in raids would be risky".Anyway, my point is that don't talk about a class unless you know a lot about it. So unless you have a 70+ brawler I humbly ask you to refrain from complaining about us. I have a 70+ coercer too, you can see my complaints above