Hack users

[BlueDagger]

<p>I'm sure this has been brought up in the past, but it honestly seems like SoE doesn't care. I have played PvP in a lot of games, but EQ2 seems to be the worst for hack users that I have seen. The game has been out for over 3 years, but there is still people running around with speed and warp hacks like mad.</p><p>An example: Fighting in Feerott I come across a lvl 51ish Destroyer SK, so me and a buddy go after him (lvl 45ish). We start fighting him and start to get the edge when he turns and flees... suddenly he starts warping back and forth and disappears. My buddy says he has disappeared from track... We report it then proceed to fight a mob right next to us for a quest... when from the distance guess who comes running at us. We kill the mob quickly and turn our fight back to him, he then vanishes again only to show up on track again this time half way across the map and not near any evac point. I checked the combat logs and in both battles tehre was not warp ability or spell used.</p><p>Sadly, that same night it happened with 2 other players; we finally got sick of it and left. It is very possibly for SoE to stop this, but unfortunately I don't think they want to take action against it and risk loosing income.. </p><p>[Edited to remove the language ~Gnobrin]</p>

[ValashokCatcaller]

<cite>BlueDagger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm sure this has been brought up in the past, but it honestly seems like SoE doesn't care. I have played PvP in a lot of games, but EQ2 seems to be the worst for hack users that I have seen. The game has been out for over 3 years, but there is still people running around with speed and warp hacks like mad.</p><p>An example: Fighting in Feerott I come across a lvl 51ish Destroyer SK, so me and a buddy go after him (lvl 45ish). We start fighting him and start to get the edge when he turns and flees... suddenly he starts warping back and forth and disappears. My buddy says he has disappeared from track... [I cannot control my vocabulary]. We report it then proceed to fight a mob right next to us for a quest... when from the distance guess who comes running at us. We kill the mob quickly and turn our fight back to him, he then vanishes again only to show up on track again this time half way across the map and not near any evac point. I checked the combat logs and in both battles tehre was not warp ability or spell used.</p><p>Sadly, that same night it happened with 2 other players; we finally got sick of it and left. It is very possibly for SoE to stop this, but unfortunately I don't think they want to take action against it and risk loosing income.. which is shatty.</p></blockquote>I actually have had this happen a few times with my own characters.  It is a bug.  I have no idea what causes it, but I have to camp desktop to get rid of it. 

[Splintered]

<cite>Camille@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BlueDagger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm sure this has been brought up in the past, but it honestly seems like SoE doesn't care. I have played PvP in a lot of games, but EQ2 seems to be the worst for hack users that I have seen. The game has been out for over 3 years, but there is still people running around with speed and warp hacks like mad.</p><p>An example: Fighting in Feerott I come across a lvl 51ish Destroyer SK, so me and a buddy go after him (lvl 45ish). We start fighting him and start to get the edge when he turns and flees... suddenly he starts warping back and forth and disappears. My buddy says he has disappeared from track... [I cannot control my vocabulary]. We report it then proceed to fight a mob right next to us for a quest... when from the distance guess who comes running at us. We kill the mob quickly and turn our fight back to him, he then vanishes again only to show up on track again this time half way across the map and not near any evac point. I checked the combat logs and in both battles tehre was not warp ability or spell used.</p><p>Sadly, that same night it happened with 2 other players; we finally got sick of it and left. It is very possibly for SoE to stop this, but unfortunately I don't think they want to take action against it and risk loosing income.. which is shatty.</p></blockquote>I actually have had this happen a few times with my own characters.  It is a bug.  I have no idea what causes it, but I have to camp desktop to get rid of it.  </blockquote>You must be in the minority then for that... as far as what the OP was talking about, it happens all too often. Bugs don't come around just at the oppurtune time, and that guy warping away when he is in red is not a bug! I have talked to some people, and have confirmed their are a number of hacks out there. Soe originally made the code more difficult for the hackers, but there are still ways around it. The problem is, soe will not take any action of course unless they personally see it. Thats why a majority can do it without having anything done.

[Psych]

A lot of games have take then "I didnt see it I cant punish them" mentality but I think the way it should work is if someone reports "joe" as a hacker then the GM that gets the report should have to go follow joe for the next hour.Its about the best they can do if that blink warp stuff doesnt show up on a log of some sort....maybe...can they check the characters coordinates over the last 30 mins? that might show the warping stuff if so...Its far more constructive to make suggestions than to just say soe is refusing to do anything. Average people have great ideas all the time, dont be afraid to make suggestions as tons of player suggestions have changed the game in huge ways. Tell SOE how to stop these guys...they supply the service but as a player YOUR a part of the game too.

[Tugatug]

There was some [Removed for Content] lvl 7 templar mining all of the cloven ores in the Commonlands with a speed hack. It was getting on my nerves, because I couldn't hardly find any and I ran all over BFE trying to find them.BTW that hackers name was Weixiaobao on Nagafen.

[poh]

client side ftw.

[Ze]

SOE let EQ pvp descend into a hackfest without ever lifting a finger. EQ2 is no different, it just didn't get nearly as bad yet. But aye, I see those "bugs" more and more often. No, SOE will no do anything about it. People caught redhended in EQ got short-term suspension - noone has ever been banned. Not only exploits have not been fixed, but the same vulnerabilities were replicated in EQ2. In short... I wouldn't hold my breath. If anything, the only rational thing to do is to hack yourself - it is easy, quick and unpunished. Which is exactly why you couldnt get one single clean fight on SZ for about 2 years prior to the merge...

[poh]

The above post is almost completely incorrect. The EQ1 devs lifted a finger many times. It is not there fault that the first eq was mainly done in C and it's design was trivial to take advantage of. It is simply the nature of the beast. They were one of the first (3-D MMO's) and had to fix the problems others had not seen yet. As for not getting banned? That is incorrect as well. I know of many PERSONAL friends that where banned. As for replicated in EQ2, once again INCORRECT. EQ2 was done in C++ thus enabling many of the things that would be stored in global variables, to be stored in dynamic class structures that change with every load. Not to mention they more then likely did not just do the crc or encryption like in eq1; including inlined security functions in EQ2. But feel free to make post like the above zerp.

[Ze]

<cite>Pohpoh@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>The above post is almost completely incorrect. The EQ1 devs lifted a finger many times. It is not there fault that the first eq was mainly done in C and it's design was trivial to take advantage of. It is simply the nature of the beast. They were one of the first (3-D MMO's) and had to fix the problems others had not seen yet. As for not getting banned? That is incorrect as well. I know of many PERSONAL friends that where banned. As for replicated in EQ2, once again INCORRECT. EQ2 was done in C++ thus enabling many of the things that would be stored in global variables, to be stored in dynamic class structures that change with every load. Not to mention they more then likely did not just do the crc or encryption like in eq1; including inlined security functions in EQ2. But feel free to make post like the above zerp. </blockquote><p>Heh, thanks for your permission. Now, let me tell you the way I see it:</p><p>1) If SOE did something about it, how come people were hacking in EQ for years? The two more common offenses were ShowEQ and ghosting. Noone got ever punished for ShowEQ, simply because it was never detectable, as most people would have it run on a different machine. All guilds used it, on pvp servers. Again, noone ever punished for it. And it worked, from the first to the last day, it was never countered in any manner. Now, for ghosting. Extremely easy to do, again, at most people were handed suspensions, mainly because it was never easy to tell if it was just a poor connection. It was never fixed. Then came the "more complex" forms of hacking - people teleporting to random places, attacking across zones, etc. Some of those exploits did not last long, I'll give you that. But for at least one year we saw people float, teleport, hit across zones, enter private instances and so on. If SOE fixed it, I wouldn't know about it - I waited for almost two years and then quit in disgust when the Zek servers were merged. Oh, btw, care to refresh our memory as to why the Zeks got merged? Because there was noone left - because plenty of people, like me, were disgusted by all the hacking going on.</p><p>2) Banning. I know plenty of people who hacked. I don't know of any who were banned. I saw countless suspensions and I know of two bans, both of which were later on converted to suspensions. Bans for hacking, I don't know of any, not on SZ. If you played on SZ, any idea how Damiax and Speed were allowed to do their "magic" for so long?</p><p>3) The vulnerability I was referring to and that was replicated is the ghosting issue. We all know that if you have the client keep track of player positions, then you can ghost. That ruined pvp in EQ, yet that is exactly what the EQ2 client does.</p><p>A couple more things. You said "It is not there fault that the first eq was done in C and it's design...". Well, you mean "their fault", not "there fault" and "its", not "it's". And the question arises - whose fault is it then? I thought devs DEVELOPED a game... </p><p>I was there. I saw what went on - and so did many other people. It was a hackfest and it never got any better - people quit, servers were merged and even the hackers got bored. But the game stayed vulnerable. And the famous hackers, the ones we all knew about, they were always there. Sometimes they got suspended, but eventually they all came back. So, the part I do not get is, why are our perceptions so different? Was it better on other servers? Or do you actually have a reason to, well, not be honest about it? </p><p>I jsut wonder... are the old EQ boards still around? There were pages and pages full of posts of people disgusted by the hacking. Anyone know if those are still available?</p>

[poh]

no prob mate, It is good to have some interesting content here. Let me voice my views on your notes: 1) What you are talking about in this item is very hard to fix. The devs have to make certain choices when they start creating the game that change the game in large ways. They can not always be focused on security. It is the same in real life, ultra secure means ultra unuseable. As for the "more complex" tasks, once again it comes down to client side. Any thing client side that is not crc'ed on the server equals cheating. And even then with things like hooking and detours one is able to go around some of this. But this is more of a cost thing, are they willing to put forth the resources to log every single users doing this? Who is going to check those logs? This all cost the end user more money. 2) You are correct on this completely, i mixed up suspensions and bannings. My bad <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 3) As for ghosting and ShowEQ. a) ghosting in eq2 could possibly be dealt with. They already take in to account the direction you have been going and the duration when sending you more tracks for the "ghosts" (NPC's and objects) that are in front of you. As for showeq, that is completely passive. That is why it is not detected. Atleast in the stand alone linux version. About the only thing they could do was change the encryption keys and/or create better encryption. But this comes are a resource cost on both sides. But they have fixed showeq to an extent in eq2. There is much less information that is sent to the client in eq2. You are never sent every things info in a zone. And the ghosts of those things that are only a certain distance in front of you are sent. Much less info is provided. As for EQ2, speed will be an issue as will be teleportation. Your current location and speed are client side. Not that i am saying there is no sort of function tracking wether or not this changes abnormally, there more then likely is. But as for them paying attention to it? who knows. You higher "C" coders and thats what you get. They can't think of every thing at the start. Cheats are like hackers, they only have to know one thing more then the dev/sysadmin. The dev and/or sysadmin has to know it all (or enough to stop most of them). As for PVP and eq1, I don't know. I never played pvp and i only played eq1 to cheat. When every one did it i stopped playing. Thanks for the spelling fixs, i am not so good with that. Yeah alot of the core open eq1 boards are still about. Though they seem not to care about EQ2 all too much. There have been a few projects but they seemed to lost wind. FH is still about and they had a packet decryptor over at showeq's stuff for a bit but it is gone. I am sure i missed some things but if you get nothing in leave just know this is a thing about cost. If it cost more who do you think pays more? Us. So would you rather have a few cheaters or pay a little bit more to stop them?

[Ze]

<p>Spelling corrections are a cheap shot, but I couldn't resist. Ever since I started teaching, the confusion between "it's" and "its" irks me. But sorry, I should have kept that for myself. </p><p>I do realize it is a cost issue. I, for one, would gladly pay $50/month in eq subscription, if that fixed it. But I do realize I am probably in the minority. Nowadays, I do not have much time to play, so I care less. But, back in the day, it completely (not marginally, completely) ruined my pvp experience and it induced me to quit a hobby I had enjoyed for years. Pathetic as that might be, it was a big deal to me. </p><p>Now, you said one key word: "FEW", as in, "few cheaters". On SZ, there were not few cheaters, rather, by the time I qut, I'd say (and I am truly guesstimating here), about 80-90% of the server cheated. Not because everyone who played pvp on SZ cheated, but because it got so rampant, pervasive and one-sided that everyone else quit. So aye, a cheater here-and-there, like it is now in EQ2, I can live with. Truth is, it won't stay that way, as soon as people realize they can get a real advantage by cheating and not get punished for it. Even worst, once people realize they need to cheat just to have an even field, pvp as we know it will end. </p><p>I am not a programmer and I understand little about it - I only have a "working knowledge" of the modern PC. But what I do see is that other publishers do a better job than SOE. Mythic, Blizzard, they all had cheating problems - but they banned people by the thousands and fixed their code. SOE has barely done the latter and always refused the former (probably, because it makes little economic sense to ban people who would otherwise pay for a subscription). In WoW, you had people cheating - one week, and they were gone. In EQ, they lingered around, until we quit in disgust; as a consequence, they got bored of playing with themselves and the pvp servers died. </p><p>Now, you mentioned you did not play on a pvp server. That is probably were the disconnect comes from. I have played on PvE servers on EQ as well - cheating was like a distant rumor, something people were talking about but most never witnessed. On pvp servers it was real - after all, the competitive spirit was much stronger then and a small advantage on your fellow player mattered much more. Hacking destroyed the EQ pvp servers and the dev team stood by. But that is exactly the core of the issue - too few of us played pvp, and too few of us still do. PvP hacks were never a priority and they are not now - this post, or rather, the OP's post is a testament to the fact that SOE just doesn't care. If the issue affected pve servers as much as pvp, I am sure something would happen. </p><p>Maybe I am just bitter. I had invested time and effort in that game and on my char and I had to quit because of the hacking. I promised, back then, never to touch a SOE game again. I mean, how can you invest time if you know it can all just fall apart? Yet, I am here again, because EQ2 really is the best MMORPG out there. But I can not help feeling cheated, by SOE more than by the hackers, and seeing it start all over again just depresses the heck out of me. More than anything, it bothers me SOE got away with it. This discussion, in itself, is proof of the fact that, despite the fact they let pvp servers die to hackers in EQ, most people dont even know it happened and we are still here, bent over, happy customers of SOE. At the very least, new players have the right to know that hacking will not be punished, that their precious pvp server can and will be manipulated, before they put years of work into their chars. </p>

[poh]

Thank you for the discussion. As you can tell i do not post much. I personally, use to play only to cheat. Now i play for the fun of it. I hope that cheaters do not become a problem. And if they do, I for one, will right a letter to SOE.

[convict]

Cheaters are the same as bots.. Thier a subscription...

[TerminalEyesore]

<span style="color: #33ff00;">"</span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #33ff00;">The EQ1 devs lifted a finger many times."</span><span style="color: #ffff00;">It seems to me that they're still lifting that finger toward those of us that don't like the cheating.If they'd just quit waving it in our faces, maybe they could use it to do something more constructive about the problem.Ah well, one thing at a time.</span></span>

[Ba]

<p>to OP, he was a level 51, dissappeared, and ended up at the evac point. at 45 SK's get evac, also there is an RZ miracle evac. Not saying that there isn't hacking (granted I haven't run into it and do take a lot of it for people just sucking at pvp 9 out of 10 times and crying hack) but there are other possibilities. </p>

[Vonotar]

Isn't there still a few bugs in relation to dual core (or worse quad core) PC's that causes a 'skittering all over the place' fast running error?Thats far more likely to be the culprit than somebody actually purposely hacking the code.These are unlikely to be totally fixed until sony make EQ2 properly support multiple cores.

[ValashokCatcaller]

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Isn't there still a few bugs in relation to dual core (or worse quad core) PC's that causes a 'skittering all over the place' fast running error?Thats far more likely to be the culprit than somebody actually purposely hacking the code.These are unlikely to be totally fixed until sony make EQ2 properly support multiple cores.</blockquote>Yes there is, this is the bug I was referring too earlier, and the most complained about "hack".  It is not easy to tell if you have it either, especially if you have a class that has a naturally high run speed.  What you see is you just seem to be running fast.  What others see is you are warping all over the screens, and you can be part way across the zone from them in seconds.  I have seen it first hand on both my account and my wife's account.  Now I know there are people that exploit the hell out of this bug, and I am not excusing that, and hell, there may actually be a hack out there.  However, I see it so rarely, or any other exploit for that matter so rarely, that I believe most of the cries of "Haxx0rs" are people just plain getting owned by a better player.

[Svetlanavera]

<cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1) If SOE did something about it, how come people were hacking in EQ for years? The two more common offenses were ShowEQ and ghosting. Noone got ever punished for ShowEQ, simply because it was never detectable, as most people would have it run on a different machine. All guilds used it, on pvp servers. Again, noone ever punished for it. And it worked, from the first to the last day, it was never countered in any manner. Now, for ghosting. Extremely easy to do, again, at most people were handed suspensions, mainly because it was never easy to tell if it was just a poor connection. It was never fixed. Then came the "more complex" forms of hacking - people teleporting to random places, attacking across zones, etc. Some of those exploits did not last long, I'll give you that. But for at least one year we saw people float, teleport, hit across zones, enter private instances and so on. If SOE fixed it, I wouldn't know about it - I waited for almost two years and then quit in disgust when the Zek servers were merged. Oh, btw, care to refresh our memory as to why the Zeks got merged? Because there was noone left - because plenty of people, like me, were disgusted by all the hacking going on.</p></blockquote>I actually know some people who were banned for using ShowEQ on Bristlebane back in the day.  So, it isn't completely true that the devs did nothing about it.

[WasFycksir]

<p>It's very easy to sum up SOE's attitude about bots and hackers with the following in-game mechanic.</p><p>The example is the spam filter. </p><p>Rather than aggressively pursuing and banning these turds, they give us a filter so WE CAN CHOOSE IF WE WANT TO SEE THE SPAM OR NOT.  So it's out of sight out of mind for the legit players, but to the bots and plat buyers it can be business as usual if they so desire.</p><p>Don't filter it SOE, get rid of the buyers and sellers.</p>

[Gnobrin]

<p>Indeed, such issues are known and are fought as they arise.  Take note, there are a very few customer service folks to assist you on your server of hundreds as well as all others.  If you have such an issue, immediately call on the CS and report the player in question.  If such is found, investigations are made and actions are taken against such baddies if the appropriate logs to show of those errors are found.  There's not a GM following you around to assist you unless you call on them to help you, and they do.</p><p>From a person that was once in CS for about 3 years, it works and action's taken against those that choose to abuse the system, if they can.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[poh]

Sweet, i just ordered a quad core <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ze]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Indeed, such issues are known and are fought as they arise.  Take note, there are a <span style="font-size: medium;"><b>very few customer service folks</b></span> to assist you on your server of hundreds as well as all others.  If you have such an issue, immediately call on the CS and report the player in question.  If such is found, investigations are made and actions are taken against such baddies if the appropriate logs to show of those errors are found.  There's not a GM following you around to assist you unless you call on them to help you, and they do.</p><p>From a person that was once in CS for about 3 years, it works and action's taken against those that choose to abuse the system, if they can.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for your reply. At least you are being honest about it, not like the Absor mantra of "SOE is perfect, CS is not understaffed, we always act, it's the players fault". We do realize the problem is understaffed CS, it was about time SOE admitted it. </p><p>Now, how about hiring some more people?</p>

[Valer]

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Isn't there still a few bugs in relation to dual core (or worse quad core) PC's that causes a 'skittering all over the place' fast running error?Thats far more likely to be the culprit than somebody actually purposely hacking the code.These are unlikely to be totally fixed until sony make EQ2 properly support multiple cores.</blockquote>QFEA quick fix for dual core users was to set the game to run off 1 core.  I've seen what the OP mentioned first hand on a PvE server, and it was no speed hack.  It was a problem with their AMD 4200+ and EQ2.

[Ze]

<cite>Valeros wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Isn't there still a few bugs in relation to dual core (or worse quad core) PC's that causes a 'skittering all over the place' fast running error?Thats far more likely to be the culprit than somebody actually purposely hacking the code.These are unlikely to be totally fixed until sony make EQ2 properly support multiple cores.</blockquote>QFEA quick fix for dual core users was to set the game to run off 1 core.  I've seen what the OP mentioned first hand on a PvE server, and it was no speed hack.  It was a problem with their AMD 4200+ and EQ2.</blockquote><p>I can't believe people still have the heart to mention this. We all know about the dual-core bug, we have all seen it. It has NOTHING to do with the hacking we are talking about:</p><p>1) you cannot turn the dual core bug on and off as you will. Yet, it is obvious that some people are able to not warp for 90% of the fight and then start warping as they are about to die. When it happens, with the same person, 5,10,20 times in a row, you have to start wondering...</p><p>2) Can't you simply search the web a bit? It doesn't take long to find out that there are hacks out there... Maybe that would make for a more educated comment... </p><p>Nothing personal, my friend. I am just sick and tired of people coming to tell me it is a bug, when, well, it obviously isn't. If it wasn't against EULA, I could post dozens of links to places you can download a hack to reproduce that "bug". Go and look for them, please.</p><p>Plus, we all know it, you can induce lag by dragging windows. Is it a bug? Well, yes. Is it used to exploit... sure.</p>

[BlueDagger]

<cite>Camille@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Isn't there still a few bugs in relation to dual core (or worse quad core) PC's that causes a 'skittering all over the place' fast running error?Thats far more likely to be the culprit than somebody actually purposely hacking the code.These are unlikely to be totally fixed until sony make EQ2 properly support multiple cores.</blockquote>Yes there is, this is the bug I was referring too earlier, and the most complained about "hack".  It is not easy to tell if you have it either, especially if you have a class that has a naturally high run speed.  What you see is you just seem to be running fast.  What others see is you are warping all over the screens, and you can be part way across the zone from them in seconds.  I have seen it first hand on both my account and my wife's account.  Now I know there are people that exploit the hell out of this bug, and I am not excusing that, and hell, there may actually be a hack out there.  However, I see it so rarely, or any other exploit for that matter so rarely, that I believe most of the cries of "Haxx0rs" are people just plain getting owned by a better player.</blockquote><p>#1) The core bug may exist, but this is NOT what is happening here. If someone runs at you full speed, not warping, then mysteriously just when they know they are loosing they start warping as they run away... that is not a core bug.</p><p>#2) This is not complaining because of "getting owned by a better player" this is a valid issue that SoE does not pursue nearly hard enough. In my experiance these hacks are used by chicken <a href="mailto:sh@t" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sh@t</a> players that don't want to loose their title or those who just have zero skill.</p><p> As a player stated earlier a farmer/hack user still equals an account and cash in SoE's pocket. The only thing that will put a stop to this is a lot of [Removed for Content] off people voicing their opinions and threating more cash then these hack users/farmers bring in.</p>

[Awix]

Id be curious to know, since it's easy to find tons of hacks just by googleing for them, how much effort is putted on SOE side to fix the bugs and close the doors these hacks found. Since you can download them on the web, it should be easy to test and fix ...

[Kneemin]

Its not like its hard to stop them anyway.  Soon as someone reports them they could send out a cam-bot or even a person using recording softward use their SOE ubarness to find out where the player is next time he logs in and watch then banbut god no... that would cost them money to make the PB happy... god forbid that

[shalom]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Indeed, such issues are known and are fought <span style="color: #0033cc;">as they arise</span>.  Take note, there are a very few customer service folks to assist you on your server of hundreds as well as all others.  <b><span style="color: #ff0033;">If you have such an issue, immediately call on the CS and report the player in question</span></b>.  If such is found, investigations are made and actions are taken against such baddies if the appropriate logs to show of those errors are found.  There's not a GM following you around to assist you unless you call on them to help you, and they do.</p><p>From a person that was once in CS for about 3 years, it works and action's taken against those that choose to abuse the system, if they can.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #6633ff;">NEGATIVE! They are investigated AFTER.  Which DOES NOT WORK!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">If you are drowning, simply call for one of our few lifeguards.  Once we see you have actually died, we will investigate and take action.</span></p>

[Bloodfa]

We've been watching the same couple of warp-hackers running and blipping all over the KP dock area in Nagafen for the last few days.  Not the occasional stutter-skip of some miscommunicated data, but blipping so fast it could cause an epileptic seizure.  Level 50 farmers.  Luckily, Velium Throw + Reach = dead farmer over & over, but it's really kind of sad.

[Evenstar]

<p>I've had that happen to me...it's not a hack, it's a lag:</p><p>Say you're running in a specific direction and then the connection gets a bit messy, you'll still be moving in that direction on the server and your PvP opponent would probably be chasing you. When you stop lagging, you'll go back to the place you were at the start of the lag.</p><p>But you can't say that anyone who that happens to is neccessarily a hacker...it's like saying that anyone with the perma-immunity bug in Jarsath is automatically an exploiter even if he doesn't realise that he's immune..</p>

[Jaggid]

Hacking/Warpers need to be stopped but as with any game, the more popular it gets, the worse the hacking will get.  Don't complain the game maker, blame the parents for not teaching their kids (that are currently kids or adults) that cheating is for losers and that you must work for something to earn it, don't follow the politians example. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />