remove inspiration and manasheild from pvp

[yohann koldheart]

<p>you cut ranger dps by more then 30%, how bout makin inspiration and mana sheild non pvp only too?</p><p>swashies and clothies with it are unbeatable now.</p><p>and dont give me the run away for 30 second bull crap, the t8 roots last more then 24 seconds so you cant run.and thats with all my resists over 6000</p>

[Zaci]

<p>The real way to go about it is to crusade to get focus aim back, not try to get other classes [I cannot control my vocabulary] over, thats how rangers lost focus aim, people complaining about waht they themselves couldnt do when you come down to it, do you truly wish to perpetuate the cycle of nerfs?</p><p>On a side note, stop [Removed for Content] complaining about it on different threads, pick one of the 15 others to [I cannot control my vocabulary] on.</p>

[Darkor]

A ranger that wants that Swashbucklers get nerfed, their own friends.  Thats like a Brigand asking for Decap to get removed. Shame on you Qeynos, what people do you have on your side?

[Elephanton]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote>A ranger that wants that Swashbucklers get nerfed, their own friends.  Thats like a Brigand asking for Decap to get removed. Shame on you Qeynos, what people do you have on your side?</blockquote>When you get to 70, you will be surprised how many swashbucklers rangers have to deal with.

[Elephanton]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>sorry, your days of 3 shotting people over</p></blockquote>Err they never even started for most of us tbhExcept those few top-rangers with super-bows (which is what really called for nerf)

[Roald]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>sorry, your days of 3 shotting people over</p></blockquote>Err they never even started for most of us tbhExcept those few top-rangers with super-bows (which is what really called for nerf)</blockquote><p>You know what, you're right.</p><p>Sniper Shot + Auto attack + posion + imbue/proc + offensive stance. That is normally enough to get me in red, and thats with only 1 attack.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>sorry, your days of 3 shotting people over</p></blockquote>Err they never even started for most of us tbhExcept those few top-rangers with super-bows (which is what really called for nerf)</blockquote><p>Super bow?</p><p>Bylze bow - lvl 59 treasured. Takes 20 minuts to get. Thats what all those 2k+ critting rangers are using on Venekor. </p>

[toenukl]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you cut ranger dps by more then 30%, how bout makin inspiration and mana sheild non pvp only too?</p><p>swashies and clothies with it are unbeatable now.</p><p>and dont give me the run away for 30 second bull crap, the t8 roots last more then 24 seconds so you cant run.and thats with all my resists over 6000</p></blockquote>Ranger DPS cut by 30%= still in top 5 PvP classes. If you remove manashield completely then Sorcorers will be right back to being killed by any class in 2 seconds. And while I'd love to see Inspiration removed, as I hate fighting Swashies, it's very easy to counter(as is manashield). Focus Aim could NOT be countered at all. Manashield and Inspiration can.BTW, those 24 second t8 roots are easily dispelled w/ potions.My suggestion from another thread: Lower auto attack dmg on the bows in question, or all auto attack dmg for that matter, and give Focus Aim back with X amount of triggers in PvP combat. Still a nerf, but not as brutal as removing an awesome ability completely.

[Guillati]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you cut ranger dps by more then 30%, how bout makin inspiration and mana sheild non pvp only too?</p><p>swashies and clothies with it are unbeatable now.</p><p>and dont give me the run away for 30 second bull crap, the t8 roots last more then 24 seconds so you cant run.and thats with all my resists over 6000</p></blockquote>As many have said before, <i>Less QQ more Pew Pew</i>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Nail@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Focus Aim could NOT be countered at all.</blockquote>Pumice stone.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nail@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Focus Aim could NOT be countered at all.</blockquote>Pumice stone.</blockquote>you know. Pumice stones dont have 30-45 m range.

[Armironhead]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you cut ranger dps by more then 30%, how bout makin inspiration and mana sheild non pvp only too?</p><p>swashies and clothies with it are unbeatable now.</p><p>and dont give me the run away for 30 second bull crap, the t8 roots last more then 24 seconds so you cant run.and thats with all my resists over 6000</p></blockquote>simply not true.  mana shield can be beat with good tactics.  As for swashies -- sure their tough. But so what? Their not gods and can be beat.  In any event nerfs are never a good idea -- I'd rather we get counter actions in spells or items if there is a balance problem.

[seahawk]

<p>I am a bit tired of people banging on Manashield.  It is the one ability that makes sorcerers viable out in the wild.  It consumes a whole AA line and contrary to what people say <b><i>it can be avoided.</i></b>  I think people got spoiled because mages were simple token machines for the longest time, and now you have to excercise some tactics when fighting a manashield specced sorcerer.</p><p> 1/ If you don't use Freedom of Action potions -- that is a you problem, not a game mechanic problem.</p><p>2/ If you don't know what the manashield icon looks like -- that is a you problem, not a game mechanic problem.</p><p>3/ When manashield is popped if you stand in proximity and line of sight of the caster then, -- that is a you problem, not a game mechanic problem.</p><p> Sorcerers must stand <b>still</b> to cast.  They don't cast on the run.  If you get rooted, pop a potion and run around a rock, make them lose line of sight.  It can be avoided with very minimal tactics.  If this was not an option for a pvp mage, then they will just be token dispensers all over again.</p><p>/rant off.</p><p>Trixee - retired 70 Warlock</p><p>Trixeebell- 74 Warlock</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Manashield? we all know it is definitely OP.  No matter what spin is tried to put on it, it simply adds up to having a very powerful damage sponge, with a long timer.  It isn't as easily overcome as some would like people to believe.  </p></blockquote>Do you remember fighting sorcerers before manashield? When you're out on Harry don't you see a Necromancer on track and think "Whoo, free token"? That's what wizards and warlocks used to be. For some classes (like my berserker) it's pretty touch and go as to if I can kill the caster before he can kill me now. I think that's balanced. Meanwhile if I met a good ranger on my berserker, someone like Valentino or Priaba, I was dead. I couldn't track them so once I knew I was under attack it was all over. Even Kaspar, the level 65 ranger, could do it to me. Closing 35m when they've already opened with a good 6k damage is a lot of work to go through to stop yourself dying. Rangers before were <i>unbeatable</i> if you didn't have track or find a terrible one. Now they're down to just being a hard fight, and that's what they should be. Just like a sorcerer with manashield.

[Valdar]

Harry, you and all rangers just got lazy and didn't have to learn to play your class because all clothies just dropped dead after your opening barrage. Now they are no longer free tokens you panic and call for a nerf.A ranger should still be able to kill a clothie. But no longer is a clothie a guaranyeed kill.Get over it.

[Siphar]

<cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Harry, you and all rangers just got lazy and didn't have to learn to play your class because all clothies just dropped dead after your opening barrage. Now they are no longer free tokens you panic and call for a nerf.A ranger should still be able to kill a clothie. But no longer is a clothie a guaranyeed kill.Get over it.</blockquote><p>I have to agree with Rethaneu and Phaust above here.</p><p>One class should never be able to kill <b><i>all</i></b> the other classes. It was too easy for rangers before and is still very viable even today. </p><p>I just don't understand your logic at all.... in comparison to the other classes, the grass is still much greener for you, you are still IMO the most viable PvP class in the game yet you still whine for nerf's and buffs??? especially with all these big zones, plenty of space to kites and catch people off-guard.. /sigh</p><p>Let me tell you this, there are classes in the game that cannot even do their class defining abilities.. e.g. summoners pets don't follow, coercers can't charm PC's effectively, assassin's can't sneak up on people or assassinate/decap anymore.. the list goes on and on. Rangers get to "range" and are [I cannot control my vocabulary] good at it as well.</p><p>Rangers can do more DPS than assassin's = Fact .. and they do it at 35m = fact.... Please FFS stop whining..</p>

[Siphar]

<p><b>P.S.</b> If my assassin (with less DPS compared to an equal ranger) can burn through a wizards hp and manashield before they kill me <i>most of the time</i> it's either because you Rangers:-</p><ol><li>Now only know how to click random CA in the belief that anyone will fall (as before) = L2P</li><li>Are in mastercrafted gear... = upgrade pls lolz</li></ol>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>P.S.</b> If my assassin (with less DPS compared to an equal ranger) can burn through a wizards hp and manashield before they kill me <i>most of the time</i> it's either because you Rangers:-</p><ol><li>Now only know how to click random CA in the belief that anyone will fall (as before) = L2P</li><li>Are in mastercrafted gear... = upgrade pls lolz</li></ol></blockquote>3. Because you are so stupid and don't even know that unlike assasins, rangers do not get stifle that lasts... forever in terms of PVP.

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>P.S.</b> If my assassin (with less DPS compared to an equal ranger) can burn through a wizards hp and manashield before they kill me <i>most of the time</i> it's either because you Rangers:-</p><ol><li>Now only know how to click random CA in the belief that anyone will fall (as before) = L2P</li><li>Are in mastercrafted gear... = upgrade pls lolz</li></ol></blockquote>3. Because you are so stupid and don't even know that unlike assasins, rangers do not get stifle that lasts... forever in terms of PVP.</blockquote><p>You would really think so on paper. I know I did and have maxed mine (Master 2) with AA as well making it last an amazing 7 seconds!... </p><p>Wow, 7 seconds is a life time in PvP right? Let me educate you firstly...</p><ul><li>You have to have stealthed to get that stifle off... this is a chore in itself, especially against brawlers/scouts who also like to stun you back.. but wait what's that you say? "<b><i>concealment</i></b>"...</li><li>C_O_N_C_E_A_L_M_E_N_T: Assassin saviour? </li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Random Nub:</span> What does this mean Mr. Assassin, surely it allows you to chain all your heavy damage backstabs that <i><b>require</b></i> stealth?? wow that must be uber damage!</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mr. Assassin </span>That is only true in the mythical fairy land of wonder, this is Norrath and hence not true.. this 7 second duration "<i>stealth after damage CA</i>" stops as soon as I am damaged.. at any point in those 7 seconds.. Most of the assassin Ca's also require positioning to add salt to the wound that is assassin difficulty..</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Random Nub:</span> Wait a minute! So in order to use concleament effectively you cannot receive any damage in that 7 seconds? wow .. even DOTS will break it I expect..</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mr. Assassin: </span>That's 100% correct Random Nub...</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Random Nub: </span>Wait, wait please Mr. Assassin I don't understand... all you heavy damage CA's are backstabs that <i>require</i> stealth (and many positioning).. how do you cope?? </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mr. Assassin: </span>Let me tell you Randon Nub, it's not an easy life as an assassin (especially after the decap nerfs)... Assassin's are barely above bards in the scouts for pvp now. We have to be extra skilled to cope in the battlefield.. Let me also add that even if we get off all our backstabs, many plate classes and wardens will still be standing! yep that's right.. I have to remember to debuff those pesky enemies first.. (yep- that requires more positioning and time)..</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Random Nub: </span>Hmm good job you get a uber lvl 80 ability... O-wait.. that also relies on you being stealthed as many times as possible in the last 10 seconds.. </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mr. Assassin:</span> /cry</p><p><b>Summary and moral of the day for Random Nub:</b> For an assassin to be successful - he/she has to be flawless... litterally.. some assassin's have done it.. Zoxuf,, tuor and a few other elite.. I'm on a road.. toward that place.. but it's a long road..</p><p><span style="color: #00cc99;">(Please take my posts with a pinch of salt - I'm never super serious about this game ~lolz~)</span></p>

[Xzerius]

I beat rangers fine with my lock WITHOUT   using manashield. Whats your excuse then?   "  The sun was in my eyes"?  LOL 

[Tatate]

<cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Harry, you and all rangers just got lazy and didn't have to learn to play your class because all clothies just dropped dead after your opening barrage. Now they are no longer free tokens you panic and call for a nerf.A ranger should still be able to kill a clothie. But no longer is a clothie a guaranyeed kill.Get over it.</blockquote>[Removed for Content]...took the words right out of my mouth.

[Darkor]

<p>What Harry doesnt seem to understand is that manashield is all about <a href="http://www.dict.cc/englisch-deutsch/survivability.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">survivability</a>. It DOES NOT kill people like Focus Aim.</p><p>You could not avoid Focus aim, you can not avoid rangers. Leave Sorcerers only defense in game.</p>

[Urgol]

oh men, how about removing bows at all from the game? the focus aim nerf wasnt 'nuff for you to understand that the ranger class is not designed for pvp

[Splintered]

I remember a really good ranger once boasted to me that he could easily kill a lvl 70 brigand general before he would ever reach him. I remember another really good ranger would take out entire groups solo. All I have to say to the rangers is.... your still powerful, just it will be more of a challange now.

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You would really think so on paper. I know I did and have maxed mine (Master 2) with AA as well making it last an amazing 7 seconds!... </p><p>Wow, 7 seconds is a life time in PvP right? Let me educate you firstly...</p></blockquote>Sry dude, but if you as assasin cannot kill ANY stifled clothy in 7 sec, then I feel sorry for you.FYI stifle means "cannot cast", that includes manashield.

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You would really think so on paper. I know I did and have maxed mine (Master 2) with AA as well making it last an amazing 7 seconds!... </p><p>Wow, 7 seconds is a life time in PvP right? Let me educate you firstly...</p></blockquote>Sry dude, but if you as assasin cannot kill ANY stifled clothy in 7 sec, then I feel sorry for you.FYI stifle means "cannot cast", that includes manashield.</blockquote><p>Yes ofcourse it's a lot easier when they are stifled <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> but you actually have to stifle them first!</p><p>Most good mages do run totems as well, but they are obviously easier targets than other scouts who have track up. The element of surprise is invaluable <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Let me ask you this.. how many non-pvp mages go out and solo? seriously? not many... IMO a lot less than scouts do... </p><p>The point I was making is how hard it is for an assassin to get off anywhere near as much dps as a ranger.. i think i got that point across <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>P.S. have you felt some of teh lag in-game at the moment? especially in places like fens? OMG - pointless trying to pvp in that lag as an assassin let me tell you.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>Thanks for all the L2P <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>Warms my heart to see random people pour their wisdom out!  Too bad I spent all my time doing it wrong!</p><p>What confuses me though, is why they become so defensive and tell me I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS when I'm not talking about how to play a ranger, but about other classes.</p><p>Especially when I'm interested in those classes being shown the same Dev Loving Rangers got.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Stuckx]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thanks for all the L2P <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>Warms my heart to see random people pour their wisdom out!  Too bad I spent all my time doing it wrong!</p><p>What confuses me though, is why they become so defensive and tell me I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS when I'm not talking about how to play a ranger, but about other classes.</p><p>Especially when I'm interested in those classes being shown the same Dev Loving Rangers got.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>So...why do we tell you to L2P?Cause it's the same [Removed for Content] thing rangers have said to anyone that called for a nerf to their class.</p>

[Darkor]

Having a stifle is a nice advantage ofcourse, but you can get it also with the manacles of the dark sky. Ofcourse they arent a guarantated proc, but i can tell you it will proc during the fight. Most of the times also right at the beginning.... ´But someone who doesnt carry cure stifle potions with em aint worth his money. Rangers now need to learn to play. Like all other classes had to.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mr. Assassin: </span>Let me tell you Randon Nub, it's not an easy life as an assassin (especially after the decap nerfs)... Assassin's are barely above bards in the scouts for pvp now.</blockquote>I just had to LOL at this. When you have to kite people for 12 minutes to kill them, THEN you can complain about low DPS.

[Tatate]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thanks for all the L2P <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>Warms my heart to see random people pour their wisdom out!  Too bad I spent all my time doing it wrong!</p><p>What confuses me though, is why they become so defensive and tell me I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS when I'm not talking about how to play a ranger, but about other classes.</p><p><b>Especially when I'm interested in those classes being shown the same Dev Loving Rangers got.</b><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Please, you have to be kidding. You want every other class to get nerfed now that you lost ONE temporary buff? Get over it, get unlazy, and keep playing. I understand you might be upset now that you can't kill people in 2 seconds, but come on, you can still kill people. Like I've said many times, you still got 3 other [Removed for Content] temporary buffs that increase DPS/Haste/Range by a ridiculous amount.

[Raidyen]

<p>Well i do understand the pure frustration the rangers are having.  It has been a non stop nerf battering to them for the last 6 months.  The funny thing these nerfs are not fixing the real problem, which is the low delay bows and thier Auto attack bow damage.  Personally if my main toon was a ranger, i would have left EQ2 pvp by now.  </p><p> As far as Swashies Inspiration, i havent used it in PvP since they nerfed it 3 months ago.  It is now no longer worth the damage you gain for its casting time.  Maybe if you cast it before you engage, but honestly the stealth attack swashies have is far more important to open up a fight with then Inspiration.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p>ok if manasheild is all about survivability like you all are claiming.</p><p>then dont totaly remove it from pvp. make it so if the caster pops mansheild he cant cast any other damage spell  in pvp or it breaks.</p><p>that way you can still use it in pve like it was intended, and if you get jumped in pvp you can use it and live long enough to evac and "survive"</p>

[Dh]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok if manasheild is all about survivability like you all are claiming.</p><p>then dont totaly remove it from pvp. make it so if the caster pops mansheild he cant cast any other damage spell  in pvp or it breaks.</p><p>that way you can still use it in pve like it was intended, and if you get jumped in pvp you can use it and live long enough to evac and "survive"</p></blockquote><p>Manashield puts u in combat when u cast it... so you cant evac. </p><p>As a warlock I would love them to remove manashield but first they would have to remove outright resists, interrupts, let us cast on the move, and increase sorcerer cast times to the speed of scouts.  </p><p>I play a ranger and a warlock. I have a much harder time killing rangers with 50meter bows with rediculous outright resists/cast times on the warlock than the other way around.</p><p>If you don't have a 50 meter bow you should invest in one. If you have problems with sorcerers, I'm guessin you just don't even engage healers.</p>

[seahawk]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok if manasheild is all about survivability like you all are claiming.</p><p>then dont totaly remove it from pvp. make it so if the caster pops mansheild he cant cast any other damage spell  in pvp or it breaks.</p><p>that way you can still use it in pve like it was intended, and if you get jumped in pvp you can use it and live long enough to evac and "survive"</p></blockquote><p>Wizzies get evac, Warlocks don't.  </p><p>Not to single you out Adriana, but manashield has never killed anyone.  It is simply a ward of sorts, that as the mage takes damage that damage is absorbed via their power instead of their health.   It lasts for 24 secs and after that you have a high dps class in a bath robe just waiting to take their beating.  If people can't find a way to kite, move around, hide or use their surroundings for 24 seconds then they deserve what they get.  Sorry if that is a bit harsh, but come on?  It's not like you don't have options here.</p><p>On a side note, yesterday I was in Fens and saw a yellow to me, I am 74, Shadow Knight.  The fight lasted about 45 seconds, and I had them to 8 percent at one point.  Then they heal to about 35ish percent, and bam! he blew right through my manashield.  So, it's not like mages are invincible.  If people fight the same way for each fight then some classes are just gonna own a certain classes unless tactics are varied.</p><p>I need to learn a better way to fight Shadow Knights =/ .</p><p>Trixeebell - 74 Warlock</p>

[seahawk]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok if manasheild is all about survivability like you all are claiming.</p><p>then dont totaly remove it from pvp. make it so if the caster pops mansheild he cant cast any other damage spell  in pvp or it breaks.</p><p>that way you can still use it in pve like it was intended, and if you get jumped in pvp you can use it and live long enough to evac and "survive"</p></blockquote><p>Manashield puts u in combat when u cast it... so you cant evac. </p><p>As a warlock I would love them to remove manashield but first they would have to remove outright resists, interrupts, let us cast on the move, and increase sorcerer cast times to the speed of scouts.  </p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">I would go for that!  If they did that, then there would be no need for manashield.  Best Idea I have heard in awhile.  I know it will never happen, but it's ok to dream right?</span></p><p>I play a ranger and a warlock. I have a much harder time killing rangers with 50meter bows with rediculous outright resists/cast times on the warlock than the other way around.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Agreed.</span></p><p>If you don't have a 50 meter bow you should invest in one. If you have problems with sorcerers, I'm guessin you just don't even engage healers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Don't give anymore ideas! I like it when they sit there and try to burn my manashield, unless of course you are a Shadow Knight.. then, go away you filth. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p></blockquote>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Sorzo@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thanks for all the L2P <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>Warms my heart to see random people pour their wisdom out!  Too bad I spent all my time doing it wrong!</p><p>What confuses me though, is why they become so defensive and tell me I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS when I'm not talking about how to play a ranger, but about other classes.</p><p><b>Especially when I'm interested in those classes being shown the same Dev Loving Rangers got.</b><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Please, you have to be kidding. You want every other class to get nerfed now that you lost ONE temporary buff? Get over it, get unlazy, and keep playing. I understand you might be upset now that you can't kill people in 2 seconds, but come on, you can still kill people. Like I've said many times, you still got 3 other [I cannot control my vocabulary] temporary buffs that increase DPS/Haste/Range by a ridiculous amount.</blockquote><p>You think its only been one nerf?  Check your history.  And even though you've said it many times, we DO NOT have three temporary buffs now that Focus Aim has been taken out of PvP. The only two left are both on 5 minute timers, and by no means do they increase our damage output by  a ridiculous amount.  You have been sadly misinformed there.</p><p>Now personally I've never said L2P to anyone, but I can understand the childish glee you might feel if its been said to you, and now you feel you have a chance to strike back.  Doesn't bother me at all, thats why I cracked a joke on it.</p><p>As to those who say manashield never killed anyone, well, technically you are right, but you cannot deny, it certainly gives casters who have it a much greater chance to kill their opponent, whatever class they be, for that matter.</p><p>Now if SOE would make a potion form of it available to other classes.........</p><p>As to a certain fury with a general title, well, your well-known crusade against rangers has really done alot to nullify any arguments you present.  Your broken record ranting of Jamilia did this and Valentino did that only accounts for two rangers.  You certainly cannot say that all rangers do this to you, or else your death count would be much higher.  Do you even realize how contradictory you make yourself sound when you brag of your KvD ratio, and in the same breath try to convince others of how horribly overpowered rangers are?  Your KvD might even be a sign that furies are OP, after all, your kill ratio says you win 6 times for every loss. Hmmm......</p>

[Tatate]

Sorry, yes, 2 temporary buffs, and one permanent buff that increases haste. Doesn't increase your damage by a ridiculous amount? 99 DPS + whatever else self buffed seems ridiculous to me.

[Dh]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You think its only been one nerf?  Check your history.  And even though you've said it many times, we DO NOT have three temporary buffs now that Focus Aim has been taken out of PvP. The only two left are both on 5 minute timers, and by no means do they increase our damage output by  a ridiculous amount.  You have been sadly misinformed there.</p><p>Now personally I've never said L2P to anyone, but I can understand the childish glee you might feel if its been said to you, and now you feel you have a chance to strike back.  Doesn't bother me at all, thats why I cracked a joke on it.</p><p>As to those who say manashield never killed anyone, well, technically you are right, but you cannot deny, it certainly gives casters who have it a much greater chance to kill their opponent, whatever class they be, for that matter.</p><p><span style="color: #3333ff;">Now if SOE would make a potion form of it available to other classes.........</span></p><p>As to a certain fury with a general title, well, your well-known crusade against rangers has really done alot to nullify any arguments you present.  Your broken record ranting of Jamilia did this and Valentino did that only accounts for two rangers.  You certainly cannot say that all rangers do this to you, or else your death count would be much higher.  Do you even realize how contradictory you make yourself sound when you brag of your KvD ratio, and in the same breath try to convince others of how horribly overpowered rangers are?  Your KvD might even be a sign that furies are OP, after all, your kill ratio says you win 6 times for every loss. Hmmm......</p></blockquote>WTB tracking potions.  Anyone with track can simply avoid anyone they can not beat or run when someone gets close while fighting npcs.  Rangers still > all classes without track.

[Evenstar]

<p>Just today, I was grouped with a wizard who had my mit. buff (+700) and a ranger nearly killed her in 5 seconds..</p><p>There's a reason they took out Focus Aim - have you seen the new RoK gear? All the procs and +CA damage will KILL you in 1 second from 35 m away if you get an almost 100% crit...you can run from swashbucklers, but you need to run an extra 15 m to get away from a ranger (assuming the swashbuckler has the + melee range, and I haven't seen many with it these days..</p><p>If you say that rangers are underpowered, you NEED to learn how to play a ranger...a ranger can STILL do <b><u>INSANE</u></b> damage. (I had Brokin firing on me...and I'll say this, he hits <u><b>HARD</b></u>).</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just today, I was grouped with a wizard who had my mit. buff (+700) and a ranger nearly killed her in 5 seconds..</p><p>There's a reason they took out Focus Aim - have you seen the new RoK gear? All the procs and +CA damage will KILL you in 1 second from 35 m away if you get an almost 100% crit...you can run from swashbucklers, but you need to run an extra 15 m to get away from a ranger (assuming the swashbuckler has the + melee range, and I haven't seen many with it these days..</p><p>If you say that rangers are underpowered, you NEED to learn how to play a ranger...a ranger can STILL do <b><u>INSANE</u></b> damage. (I had Brokin firing on me...and I'll say this, he hits <u><b>HARD</b></u>).</p></blockquote><p>Last time I checked, nearly killed isn't the same thing as being killed.  So even after this ranger burst dps attacked your wiz friend, the wiz survived?  Your example is a tad confusing.</p><p>And using the excuse of ROK gear does nothing for any rangers below t7 who also lost this ability.  This isn't something that just happens when you get to t7, its level non-discriminatory.</p><p>FYI, not every ranger has a 50m bow either.  It seems kind of sad that to counter an ability stripped from our class, some people's response is well, you can get x piece of gear that is only available in a t8 zone.</p>

[Siphar]

<p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p>

[Tatate]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p></blockquote>/nod

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p></blockquote><p>You mean like switch to your class?</p><p>No thanks, I'm not really into FOTM.  1.5 years on my ranger, not going to just up and quit to satisfy those who think giving up is the best solution.  </p><p>As for the problems of the game, well, I think manashield is one of them.  This 24 second damage shield is second to none in the game.  Combined with a caster's high damage output in PvP = an overpowered class.</p><p>Doesn't need a reduction, needs to be disabled for PvP.</p>

[toenukl]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p></blockquote><p>You mean like switch to your class?</p><p>No thanks, I'm not really into FOTM.  1.5 years on my ranger, not going to just up and quit to satisfy those who think giving up is the best solution.  </p><p>As for the problems of the game, well, I think manashield is one of them.  This 24 second damage shield is second to none in the game.  Combined with a caster's high damage output in PvP = an overpowered class.</p><p>Doesn't need a reduction, needs to be disabled for PvP.</p></blockquote>If you completely remove Manashield from the game Sorceror will go back to the worst PvP class in game, nothing but a token bot. The Ranger nerf did not knock rangers out of the top 3 PvP classes, so the difference would be drastic imo.

[Stuckx]

<p>Remove rangers from PVP tbh.</p><p>.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="144" height="82" /></p>

[Valdar]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p></blockquote><p>You mean like switch to your class?</p><p>No thanks, I'm not really into FOTM.  1.5 years on my ranger, not going to just up and quit to satisfy those who think giving up is the best solution.  </p><p>As for the problems of the game, well, I think manashield is one of them.  This 24 second damage shield is second to none in the game.  Combined with a caster's high damage output in PvP = an overpowered class.</p><p>Doesn't need a reduction, needs to be disabled for PvP.</p></blockquote>You still at it Harry? Still not bothering to learn your class? Better wake up and smell the coffe, the easy days of free tokens on Blackwind are over, you have to work for your tokens now, just like the rest of us.Miss the old days when rangers were posting they didn't 1 shot people. It was just 20 different attacks that all hit at the same time...

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn..</p><p>I think it's time to finish this topic.</p><p>If you as a ranger cannot kill even being as powerful as you are without focus aim, then Quit.</p><p>A vast proportion of you only made rangers because they were commonly known as being OP, now they are more balanced, it's time to hang up your bow and taste the next flavour/class of the month..</p><p>/Yawn... there are much more important problems with this game than your OP buffs which have been fixed. The only reason I feel this mail has lasted this long is because of the vast number of rangers...</p><p>........ ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p></blockquote><p>You mean like switch to your class?</p><p>No thanks, I'm not really into FOTM.  1.5 years on my ranger, not going to just up and quit to satisfy those who think giving up is the best solution.  </p><p>As for the problems of the game, well, I think manashield is one of them.  This 24 second damage shield is second to none in the game.  Combined with a caster's high damage output in PvP = an overpowered class.</p><p>Doesn't need a reduction, needs to be disabled for PvP.</p></blockquote>You still at it Harry? Still not bothering to learn your class? Better wake up and smell the coffe, the easy days of free tokens on Blackwind are over, you have to work for your tokens now, just like the rest of us.Miss the old days when rangers were posting they didn't 1 shot people. It was just 20 different attacks that all hit at the same time...</blockquote><p>I don't even play on Nagafen........</p><p>This isn't about tokens, its about how powerful manashield is.  </p><p>And Coffee has two E's.  I like mine with cream and sugar, thanks!</p>

[Arcanias]

Ok, so everyone knows that manashield is OP.  The answer isn't to remove it from pvp combat.   IMO, manashield was awesome and fairly balanced when it was a 1:1 damage to power ratio.  Completely removing class abilities from pvp is never the answer, and it usually causes more imbalance than what was had.

[Psych]

Enough of that "you campaigned against us rangers! I cry cause you got us changed by complaining!"Thats just not true at best and at worst its a total fabrication and complete lie. Coercer=Least PlayedWhy=BrokenComplaints about this are literally every other post in the coercer forum and they have campaigned countless times to get the class fixed. Atleast in PVP stifles, stuns, powerdrains and interrupts are more useful but ultimately making someone incapable of hurting you isnt going to kill them. If complaining got things changed then coercers would be. They arent. Stop calling a blue sky red.Also, rangers frequently backshot me for about 55-60% of my entire health bar. Nobody I've faced has torn me up like they have aside from 1 time when I was harm touched in the face unexpectedly and harm touch is much easier to see coming.

[Mildavyn]

<p>In this case however it was exactly what needed to happen. Pre-casting buffs means you get the full PvE value out of them for your fights, healers do it all the time. If you're going to fight a healer, you have to get through their first round of PvE-strength heals (assuming they see you coming, not a problem for rangers). </p><p>Nerfing Focus Aim just for PvP would have been completely pointless, as it is usually the first thing that Rangers will cast, and they usually cast it before combat begins. Meaning that you actually didn't nerf it.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enough of that "you campaigned against us rangers! I cry cause you got us changed by complaining!"Thats just not true at best and at worst its a total fabrication and complete lie. Coercer=Least PlayedWhy=Broken</blockquote><p>I wouldn't say Coercer are broken, they just have a very low margin for error. 1 resist and we could very likely be a goner (sp?)</p><p>I would however like to say this, If our mezz lands, we shouldn't be loosing to any class really.</p>

[Psych]

Broken is a bad word to describe them as its not really a well defined term but I dont think the numbers can be disputed.Also, can you tell me what you cast AFTER mez to gaurantee victory?(i dont mean that as a challenge I am just honestly interested in hearing your ideas and trying to learn from them)

[Mildavyn]

<p>I really wish you were on Venekor Milambers, I'd gladly show you that Troubadors are DESINGED to kill coercers.</p><p>Mental damage wardMagical Stoneskin/reflectCrowd Control of our ownReactive damage of our own.Ability to break your mez every 6 seconds.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Broken is a bad word to describe them as its not really a well defined term but I dont think the numbers can be disputed.Also, can you tell me what you cast AFTER mez to gaurantee victory?(i dont mean that as a challenge I am just honestly interested in hearing your ideas and trying to learn from them)</blockquote><p>After mezz its pretty much just magic-debuff/spell reactive/melee reactive/power reactive/Mindbend.</p><p>Then after that I normally follow with the casting speed debuff + self buff. Then int bebuff. After that it pretty much varies for each class. But if you get the spells listed in the first line down then it shouldn't really take too much else to win. Obviously there is a lot of skill in timing interrupts and stuns/stifle/fear, but you just get better at that with practice.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I really wish you were on Venekor Milambers, I'd gladly show you that Troubadors are DESINGED to kill coercers.</p><p>Mental damage wardMagical Stoneskin/reflectCrowd Control of our ownReactive damage of our own.Ability to break your mez every 6 seconds.</p></blockquote><p>tbh, I dont think I've ever lost 1v1 to a troub. I'll admit it, they are 1 of the harder classes for me to kill, but if its orange or below, they tends to go down without me getting below 40%ish. I had some good fights with Booyah who I think is a Troub, but I managed to get him down and stay in the yellow (yellow con exile, probably in T5 fabled).</p><p>And why venekor? You could just come to nagafen and enjoy lots more PvP <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Arcanias@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, so everyone knows that manashield is OP.  The answer isn't to remove it from pvp combat.   IMO, manashield was awesome and fairly balanced when it was a 1:1 damage to power ratio.  Completely removing class abilities from pvp is never the answer, and it usually causes more imbalance than what was had. </blockquote>I honestly dont think manashield is OP.I can still kill sorcs by just burning through it at pretty much every tier I paly at, with a wide variety of classes. If Im not on a toon capable of burning it down, that toon has CC to lock them down with for the duration instead, basically.Or, in the third case, the toon has CC enough to lock them down long enough to kill them before they get it up.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In this case however it was exactly what needed to happen. Pre-casting buffs means you get the full PvE value out of them for your fights, healers do it all the time. If you're going to fight a healer, you have to get through their first round of PvE-strength heals [...]. </p></blockquote>Do you think that it is unintended?

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In this case however it was exactly what needed to happen. Pre-casting buffs means you get the full PvE value out of them for your fights, healers do it all the time. If you're going to fight a healer, you have to get through their first round of PvE-strength heals [...]. </p></blockquote>Do you think that it is unintended?</blockquote><p>Very interesting Paikis.  I even agree with you.  And healers aren't the only class I'm sure, that use any ability that helps them stay alive or gives them an edge.</p><p>A fine quandary there.  Where do you draw the line on pre-combat buffs?  Obviously SOE won't cancel healing abilities!  And yet, once you start taking away class abilities, how do you stop?</p><p> Another answer (for rangers at least) might have been to have a check target query added to our Focus Aim buff, if target is pvp, enable a weaker (nerfed) focus aim, just like all our CA's.</p><p>Alas, a moot point I'm afraid.  And still doesn't address the OP of manashield.  Maybe SOE can figure out a way to not remove this completely, toning it down for PvP.  After all, it was buffed to counter  ranger's burst DPS, right?</p>

[Drao]

Everyone is complaining about whos OP whos OP well you all are OP compared to us conjys. every single class whos in here complaining can one shot us so stop fighting and deal with it know i have.

[Omgidomms]

<p>Yes! Take away manashield so they can once again join the necromancers as rock bottom pvp class! :p</p><p>Or turn it around and say something like: OMG finally we see casters amoung the good pvp classes!</p>

[rvbarton]

let's take the ability to track away from PVP also...

[Psych]

I am a coercer. I think manashield needs a tweek. Not a removal from pvp...but...some fixin...with a nerf bat.I attacked a blue con wizard today and he just sat there and tanked all my damage, rooted me, took his time as I did no damage to his health bar at all then calmy proceeded to burn and freeze me to death. I didnt even manage to inflict a single point of damage...not cool.yeah, stunned him, mez got resisted, he got a few spells in, I died. I shoulda silenced him in time but figured mez first then silence on break. Either way I do more to tanks before dying than I did to him and that just doesnt seem right...

[Dh]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a coercer. I think manashield needs a tweek. Not a removal from pvp...but...some fixin...with a nerf bat.I attacked a blue con wizard today and he just sat there and tanked all my damage, rooted me, took his time as I did no damage to his health bar at all then calmy proceeded to burn and freeze me to death. I didnt even manage to inflict a single point of damage...not cool.yeah, stunned him, mez got resisted, he got a few spells in, I died. I shoulda silenced him in time but figured mez first then silence on break. Either way I do more to tanks before dying than I did to him and that just doesnt seem right...</blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?

[sprogn]

Gotta be honest, I don't have a big issue with manashield.  My zerk just stifles them and runs around until it wears off, my conjurer just burns straight through it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I think the problem is actually other mages not having enough defence...

[Yahshua]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I attacked a blue con wizard today and he just sat there and tanked all my damage, rooted me, took his time as I did no damage to his health bar at all then calmy proceeded to burn and freeze me to death. I didnt even manage to inflict a single point of damage...not cool.</blockquote><p>ME: T8 wizzy.</p><p>You DO realize of course, that we lose power when you hit us right?  It's not like we can sit there, ward damage, and cast indefinately while taking hits, and that's a point that players like yourself seem to leave out.  In T8 against a brig, manashield doesn't seem to do much.  I pop it and then die because I can't nuke, because I have NO POWER - Ooooo too uber.  Now against other casters or classes, Manashield works pretty well, but I just want to correct the notion that we can sit there and just take damage with NO consequences; any mage with no power is a dead mage - and it should be obvious that power is the ONLY thing we have to defend ourselves as we are not a melee class.  Therefore SOE has done a pretty good job with the prospect: You CAN survive hits with a SIGNIFICANT penalty: erode the only thing that will help you DEFEAT the enemy; POWER.  To other posters points, nerf the only thing that gives us a fighting chance against ANY class, and we become cloth wearing token vendors again... no thanks.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a coercer. I think manashield needs a tweek. Not a removal from pvp...but...some fixin...with a nerf bat.I attacked a blue con wizard today and he just sat there and tanked all my damage, rooted me, took his time as I did no damage to his health bar at all then calmy proceeded to burn and freeze me to death. I didnt even manage to inflict a single point of damage...not cool.yeah, stunned him, mez got resisted, he got a few spells in, I died. I shoulda silenced him in time but figured mez first then silence on break. Either way I do more to tanks before dying than I did to him and that just doesnt seem right...</blockquote>What level is your coercer? I tend to find wizards quite easy to fight: with our stuns stifles and fast cast interrupt I find it fairly easy to lock them down. And if they do manage to get ice comet in, tyrannical mind hits for quite a lot.

[XeroXs84]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a coercer. I think manashield needs a tweek. Not a removal from pvp...but...some fixin...with a nerf bat.I attacked a blue con wizard today and he just sat there and tanked all my damage, rooted me, took his time as I did no damage to his health bar at all then calmy proceeded to burn and freeze me to death. I didnt even manage to inflict a single point of damage...not cool.yeah, stunned him, mez got resisted, he got a few spells in, I died. I shoulda silenced him in time but figured mez first then silence on break. Either way I do more to tanks before dying than I did to him and that just doesnt seem right...</blockquote>Only cos u have no clue how to counter it it doesnt mean there is no way... as a coercer you can actually counter it very good with just a single spell.. mezz.. if its too short duration then stifle afterwards or stun..Manashield doesnt last that long, also as a coercer u can easy drain his power anyway (and even do so while mezzed or stifled).. so either do that so manashield has no effect anyway anymore or do that while manashield is up and afterwards the sorcere be yours as he has 0 powerAlso most sorcerers will be using manashield when they about to die, not from the get-go.. so a good timed stifle will prevent that and again u win.

[Omgidomms]

The main problem is that wizards and warlocks have a fighting chance in pvp.It's not supposed to be like this, scouts and brawlers are the only fighting pvp classes.Wizard and warlocks should be at the bottom with their fellow summoner mages.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Ratzy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main problem is that wizards and warlocks have a fighting chance in pvp.It's not supposed to be like this, scouts and brawlers are the only fighting pvp classes.Wizard and warlocks should be at the bottom with their fellow summoner mages.</blockquote>LOLYeah, the fact that sorcerers are no longer free, easy tokens seems to [Removed for Content] off a lot of people. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Badaxe Ba]

How does that help conjurors?

[Necodem]

<p>As a zerk I never had problem killing sorcerers, I just stiffle and kill before they use manashield or burn through it if they manage to cast it.</p><p>A ranger that can't kill through manashield must be pretty bad.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?</blockquote>And mezz doesn't break when any of our dots ticks 1 second after we cast it?

[Roald]

<cite>Fizzie@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Only cos u have no clue how to counter it it doesnt mean there is no way... as a coercer you can actually counter it very good with just a single spell.. mezz.. if its too short duration then stifle afterwards or stun..Manashield doesnt last that long, also as a coercer u can easy drain his power anyway (and even do so while mezzed or stifled).. so either do that so manashield has no effect anyway anymore or do that while manashield is up and afterwards the sorcere be yours as he has 0 powerAlso most sorcerers will be using manashield when they about to die, not from the get-go.. so a good timed stifle will prevent that and again u win.</blockquote>See above post.

[Necodem]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?</blockquote>And mezz doesn't break when any of our dots ticks 1 second after we cast it?</blockquote>You can cancel them before casting your mezz. Anyway as an enchanter, manashield is totaly really not a problem because you drain mana ( which it's like dmg when manashield is casted ), and sorcerer's mana goes really fast down.

[Necodem]

The only problem now is stonekins items + manashield making them really too hard to kill.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?</blockquote>And mezz doesn't break when any of our dots ticks 1 second after we cast it?</blockquote>You can cancel them before casting your mezz. Anyway as an enchanter, manashield is totaly really not a problem because you drain mana ( which it's like dmg when manashield is casted ), and sorcerer's mana goes really fast down.</blockquote>Only problem wiht this logic is coercer drains also do physical damage, breaking mez.  But, yeah, stuns and stifles are your friend...

[Tatate]

<p>Sorcerors took enough [I cannot control my vocabulary] when PvP servers became live, and, all I have to say is, it's our time now.</p><p>P.S. At least give enchanters and summoners the option to put a ward in their magi's shielding imho.</p>

[Psych]

<cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?</blockquote>And mezz doesn't break when any of our dots ticks 1 second after we cast it?</blockquote>You can cancel them before casting your mezz. Anyway as an enchanter, manashield is totaly really not a problem because you drain mana ( which it's like dmg when manashield is casted ), and sorcerer's mana goes really fast down.</blockquote>Only problem wiht this logic is coercer drains also do physical damage, breaking mez.  But, yeah, stuns and stifles are your friend...</blockquote>Fyste is wrong. I am right.All adept 3 power drains still takes me over 60 seconds SOLID draining having all drains going constantly at level 30 to drop even a tank class to less than half power.Our drains are worthless on players, the power pool of a player dwarfs that of a monster but our power drains are not increased for PVP thus we drain like we do on monsters which is pathetic by comparison.For instance, my master 1 anguish draining less than 500 power in half a minute from a wizard who will easily kill me with 1000 of his 3000 power in less than half a minute. Even paired with my aoe power drain, dot power drain, silence+drain, and stun+drain I cant stop any class from casting for more than about 15 out of 30 seconds usually and its from being silenced or stunned NOT drained of power.If you think I'm wrong get on your character, hit the broker...check a sage if you have one. Adept3 is good. But even master level wouldnt drain anyone unless they were sprinting the whole fight and I made them chase me.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of casting damage, you should have recasted mez and just waited for manashield to disapear. Don't you have power draining abilities too?</blockquote>And mezz doesn't break when any of our dots ticks 1 second after we cast it?</blockquote>You can cancel them before casting your mezz. Anyway as an enchanter, manashield is totaly really not a problem because you drain mana ( which it's like dmg when manashield is casted ), and sorcerer's mana goes really fast down.</blockquote>Only problem wiht this logic is coercer drains also do physical damage, breaking mez.  But, yeah, stuns and stifles are your friend...</blockquote>Fyste is wrong. I am right.All adept 3 power drains still takes me over 60 seconds SOLID draining having all drains going constantly at level 30 to drop even a tank class to less than half power.Our drains are worthless on players, the power pool of a player dwarfs that of a monster but our power drains are not increased for PVP thus we drain like we do on monsters which is pathetic by comparison.For instance, my master 1 anguish draining less than 500 power in half a minute from a wizard who will easily kill me with 1000 of his 3000 power in less than half a minute. Even paired with my aoe power drain, dot power drain, silence+drain, and stun+drain I cant stop any class from casting for more than about 15 out of 30 seconds usually and its from being silenced or stunned NOT drained of power.If you think I'm wrong get on your character, hit the broker...check a sage if you have one. Adept3 is good. But even master level wouldnt drain anyone unless they were sprinting the whole fight and I made them chase me.</blockquote>I'm not wrong.  Coercer drains do also have a damage component. L2Play, kthnks.

[Psych]

actually silence and the gaze stun lines (our 2 best drains) have no damage.....what coercer have you been playing?Do I need to PM you with pics of each spell? We have 2 dots with power drains yeah...1 single target, 1 aoe. Both drain less than our gaze/silence lines BECAUSE they do damage. Learn to play? Try learn to read...coercer spell lists are all over this forum, eq2i, alakazam and I'm sure more.Keep debating this and I will post pics and links to the spells themselves. Even if you argued the damage mattered (it doesnt, our procs are the only spells we get that DPS aside from rare charmed mobs) its only paired with drains on DOTS both of which I think are a tic every 6 seconds?Solve that riddle when pretty much any class can dps enough to kill a cloth tank in <12s

[Roald]

<cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not wrong.  Coercer drains do also have a damage component. L2Play, kthnks.</blockquote>Erm, our 2 main drains don't do any damage. Not sure what you are talking about.

[tass]

ugh those terry robe, non slowing, resisting, non running bastages. Take that survival away!

[Jaggid]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you cut ranger dps by more then 30%, how bout makin inspiration and mana sheild non pvp only too?</p><p>swashies and clothies with it are unbeatable now.</p><p>and dont give me the run away for 30 second bull crap, the t8 roots last more then 24 seconds so you cant run.and thats with all my resists over 6000</p></blockquote>Leave it in and stop crying nerf!  Suggest a way to compromise.  Try toning down, not totally nerfing.