Time for a NEW call for Balance

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>With ROK, Rangers lost their primary combat buff in PVP, Focus Aim.  Devs decided with no warning or notice to make this unusable for PvP combat.  In order to address this new imbalance, all other classes should also lose there similar abilities.</p><p>No more inspiritaion for Swashies.</p><p>No more thugs for Brigands.</p><p>ETC., etc,. etc.</p><p>If your class gets any type of temporary combat buff or ability that can increase your chances to win it should be disabled in Pvp combat.</p><p>Why should any class get treated with such disregard as rangers do?</p><p>Balance.</p><p>Or would it be too difficult for everyone to join in and ask for Rangers to receive their Focus Aim ability back?</p>

[Killque]

<p>What Ranger uses their Focus Aim during combat?? Pfft. </p><p>Step 1: Focus Aim</p><p>Step 2: Hidden Shot/Sniper Shot or equiv</p><p>Step 3: Rest of Bow CAs</p><p>Step 4: If still alive... run</p>

[Bloodfa]

As an aside, I, for one, would give up Inspiration to see Thugs go bye-bye.  I hate those little buggers.

[Dh]

I think a better solution would have been to disable auto attack critical hits in PVP and leave focus aim.

[Roald]

<p>With Focus Aim gone, I think, for the first time ever, this game is as close to perfectly balanced as it ever will be (at the level cap).</p><p>Good change SoE.</p>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With Focus Aim gone, I think, for the first time ever, this game is as close to perfectly balanced as it ever will be (at the level cap).</p><p>Good change SoE.</p></blockquote><div>Except it isn't gone. Refer to above post. Just have to use it before you enter pvp combat, unless they completely destroyed it and made the buff disable once you enter pvp combat whether you had previously casted it on you or not.</div><div></div><div>" <span style="font-family: verdana;color: #d2c5a9;" class="Apple-style-span">Step 1: Focus Aim</span></div><span style="font-family: verdana;color: #d2c5a9;" class="Apple-style-span"><p>Step 2: Hidden Shot/Sniper Shot or equiv</p><p>Step 3: Rest of Bow CAs</p><p>Step 4: If still alive... run "</p></span>

[Zaci]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>As an aside, I, for one, would give up Inspiration to see Thugs go bye-bye.  I hate those little buggers.</blockquote>You do realize that going stealth makes them lose your target and they wont attack you again until you hit them, and swathe will one shot them....

[MokiCh]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With Focus Aim gone, I think, for the first time ever, this game is as close to perfectly balanced as it ever will be (at the level cap).</p><p>Good change SoE.</p></blockquote><div>Except it isn't gone. Refer to above post. Just have to use it before you enter pvp combat, unless they completely destroyed it and made the buff disable once you enter pvp combat whether you had previously casted it on you or not.</div><div></div><div>" <span style="font-family: verdana;color: #d2c5a9;" class="Apple-style-span">Step 1: Focus Aim</span></div><span style="font-family: verdana;color: #d2c5a9;" class="Apple-style-span"><p>Step 2: Hidden Shot/Sniper Shot or equiv</p><p>Step 3: Rest of Bow CAs</p><p>Step 4: If still alive... run "</p></span></blockquote>It is gone, the buff cancels as soon as you enter combat.

[Evenstar]

<p>That's not balancing...</p><p> Swashbucklers NEED inspiration, otherwise they stand ABSOLUTELY NO chance (try swashbuckler vs an inquisitor or a warden with 200-ish damageshield..). Alright, it's a little too powerful...but they can't kill without it.</p><p>Rangers are NOT underpowered...I've still had a ranger take me down before I could click on the bell and zone back to freeport while I was standing right on the docks (no, not Valentino...and yes, after the RoK update).</p><p>They just made rangers require better equipment than the ghostly bow and mastercrafted to kill someone (there's lots of nice crit gear for mages in RoK...I'm sure I've seen some scout pieces too, and I've definitely seen a bow with a +chance to double-attack).</p><p>Thugs can do damage yes, but a brigand shouldn't be left alive that long if you use Sniper Shot.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Balancing the top few classes amongst each other is a pointless waste of time.</p><p>I don't care if rangers are not exactly as powerful as brigands.  You both destroy my guardian.</p><p>You whine about who is most powerful vs who is 4th most powerful, or whatever.</p><p>If you really want a balanced set of classes in solo pvp, then you would be calling for the worst of them to be boosted.  No one else requires boosting until that is done.  Every time you call for a mid to top tier solo pvp class being granted some ability that allows it to match up with a brigand, or whatever, is a power that allows you to defeat the guardian <u>even more easily.</u></p><p>Granting rangers anything at this point imbalances the game even further.  They are not [Removed for Content].  Other classes are, relatively speaking.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Balancing the top few classes amongst each other is a pointless waste of time.</p><p>I don't care if rangers are not exactly as powerful as brigands.  You both destroy my guardian.</p><p>You whine about who is most powerful vs who is 4th most powerful, or whatever.</p><p>If you really want a balanced set of classes in solo pvp, then you would be calling for the worst of them to be boosted.  No one else requires boosting until that is done.  Every time you call for a mid to top tier solo pvp class being granted some ability that allows it to match up with a brigand, or whatever, is a power that allows you to defeat the guardian <u>even more easily.</u></p><p>Granting rangers anything at this point imbalances the game even further.  They are not [Removed for Content].  Other classes are, relatively speaking.</p></blockquote><p>Lets set the record straight.  I'm not asking for Rangers to be boosted.  I'm asking for SOE to give back what they took away, our ranged combat buff Focus Aim.</p><p>If that is an impossibility, then why shouldn't I ask for other classes to receive the same treatment Rangers have gotten?  Nerf, after nerf, after nerf, Ad Nauseum.</p><p>Now if you feel Guardians are underpowered for PvP, feel free to start a different topic asking for a boost, as you call it.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's not balancing...</p><p> Swashbucklers NEED inspiration, otherwise they stand ABSOLUTELY NO chance (try swashbuckler vs an inquisitor or a warden with 200-ish damageshield..). Alright, it's a little too powerful...but they can't kill without it.</p><p>Rangers are NOT underpowered...I've still had a ranger take me down before I could click on the bell and zone back to freeport while I was standing right on the docks (no, not Valentino...and yes, after the RoK update).</p><p>They just made rangers require better equipment than the ghostly bow and mastercrafted to kill someone (there's lots of nice crit gear for mages in RoK...I'm sure I've seen some scout pieces too, and I've definitely seen a bow with a +chance to double-attack).</p><p>Thugs can do damage yes, but a brigand shouldn't be left alive that long if you use Sniper Shot.</p></blockquote><p>You seem to have forgotten how badly Sniper shot got nerfed.  Even WITH Focus Aim, its pvp damage has been reduced.</p><p>And holding out ROK's possible equipment does nothing for all the rangers who can't even quest there yet.  This isn't just a t7 ability by the way.  It's an intergral part of a ranger's class ability.</p><p>The very night ROK came out I was killed by a 4k Ice Nova hit. (nice one Euphrates!)  Name one Ranger CA that can do that much damage.  There aren't any.  And before you start ranting about our autoattack damage, let me remind you that arrow damage and bow combat ratings were also nerfed a while back.  </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With Focus Aim gone, I think, for the first time ever, this game is as close to perfectly balanced as it ever will be (at the level cap).</p><p>Good change SoE.</p></blockquote><p>News flash.  Level cap is now 80.  Aside from beta testers, how can you make this statement?  What testing results were you privvy to that allows you to claim such a thing?</p><p>Hmm, next up, manashield disabled during PvP combat, there, that should bring balance!</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What Ranger uses their Focus Aim during combat?? Pfft. </p><p>Step 1: Focus Aim</p><p>Step 2: Hidden Shot/Sniper Shot or equiv</p><p>Step 3: Rest of Bow CAs</p><p>Step 4: If still alive... run</p></blockquote><p>Step 1 thru 3, I won't argue about.  Its what rangers do, or at least did before ROK.</p><p>Step 4 however, only works to emphasize our own vulnerability to melee/casting fights.</p><p>Our most probable method now will be step 1:  Don't stop running, check if evac is up, don't enter combat in order to maintain out of combat run speed, pray.</p>

[Gapik]

<p>1, do you lose every single fight you enter</p><p>2, if your losing can you still hightail it out of a fight like a bat outta hell</p><p>3, were you unable to actively pvp before you got focus aim</p><p>4, are you now unable to do crazy high dps</p><p>5, can you honestley say your the worst pvp class within your archtype</p><p>6, are the huge number rangers going to re-roll because there no longer a viable class</p><p>7,does all your pvp skill reside in focus aim alone</p><p>8,are you now unable to grp/raid/guild because they already have a ranger</p><p>9, do you not have a single t8 token as your now so underpowered</p><p>10, are you serious</p><p>Ive played many classes and ive gotta say if you feel rangers are taking a nerf i  say about time..they excell easilly as a pvp class..dont think nerf think overdue balancing...is a common joke to ppl ive talked to in FP about when rangers will get harm touch, ability to fly or even a 100% parry belt (oh nm)</p><p>ask yourself what rangers have still got not somthing you lost i.e huge mit and hp, crazy auto attack, evac, chain, track i could go on</p>

[Magius789]

Huge mit are you serious?  Wardens get get better mit than us with their mit spell buffs.  What Harry said is right...for no reason you remove our class defining ability during PvP.  I love how they tried to do it so quietly also!!  Like we wouldn't notice, I think every other class should loose their class defining ability as well.  I haven't bought the expansion yet and if SOE wants to screw with my only 70 toon its likely I won't buy it.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Stuckx]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Huge mit are you serious?  Wardens get get better mit than us with their mit spell buffs.  What Harry said is right...for no reason you remove our class defining ability during PvP.  I love how they tried to do it so quietly also!!  Like we wouldn't notice, I think every other class should loose their class defining ability as well.  I haven't bought the expansion yet and if SOE wants to screw with my only 70 toon its likely I won't buy it.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I thought your class defining ability was using your bow for the majority of your attacks..Jeebus..quit whining just because you got a nerf..it's about time,I say.Maybe now you won't be able to kill every class in the game in under 7 seconds..and thats being generous.</p><p>I'll say the same thing that all you rangers have ever replied to when someone whined about how Over powered you were....LEARN TO PLAY.Now that you can't rely on that buff to make you unbeatable PVP Gods,some of you might show a bit of skill at the class.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

Focus Aim was a huge part of a rangers spike in PvP. All rangers are hurting now when they are in group on group when they can't pop Focus Aim to spike out a target. Taking this away from them is like taking rangers and making them into want-to-be assassins without the stifle and decap. Evenstar, I will say if you think a ranger is going to get off Snipers against a brig, That brig is a little slow if you know what I'm talking about. Brigs get see stealth built into their stealth, Even though a ranger does use RANGE, a ranger will still be on track if you pay attention. Its not hard to stop snipers, they only thing deadly about that ability anymore is the knockdown and stun not the damage.Focus Aim buffed the range crit chance of the ranger, There are items with heal crit mods, melee crit mods, and +heal or DPS, But Very few to actually buff the crit chance of a ranger. Also the Auto attack everyone was complaining about was mainly when they had focus aim up is when the big hits were kicking in. A rangers auto attack is not that much w/o the high crit chance, they may as well be Notsorangers now IMO for PvP.

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Undeniably the biggest and most ludicrous nerf in the history of EQ2 pvp..FACT.</p><p>This is the first time an ability has BEEN REMOVED COMPLETELY in pvp ,<confirmation pls>. For example pact of cheetah was nerfed BUT they could cast it before pvp then it ran its duration DURING pvp. Safehouse was nerfed BUT still worked as another evac making brigs almost impossible to kill.</p><p>Some fool said rangers could just run away if they were losing..er HOW EXACTLY mate seeing as they nerfed our in combat runspeed back to nothing. Talk sense fgs.</p><p>Combat art also work from focus aim so wheras i may have rain of arrowed someone 2 k <note not 4k as wiz> now without crit and temp dps mod will hit about 1k. Autto attacks will be back to the joke they were without bylze, my fabled bows were averaging 500 before bylze fa, now that will be the norm whera a fabled swash can probably auto for higher with a far shorter delay FREAKING SWORD.</p><p>Rangers used focus aim to burst down many classes eg healers to get the win <not guaranteed by any means>. Now this is removed its a joke class. Vs a swash brig etc, if we can skillfully get required range of them we need to then burst them fast before they resnare us etc, but how are we gonna burst fast if were autto attacking 500 every 4 secs?????? they will jump back on us at 90% health and spam laugh over our corpse. Ranger was THE burst class, what is it now? I guess the kiter? o no remeber they nerfed that to hell too....</p><p>The devs are slack, they just removed an ability due to incrediably lame whiners spouting rubbish on the boards. Tjhet should have studied and and maybe altered it, not REMOVED IT.</p><p>All this makes the reader think that rangers were gods before this nerf and unbeatable..er nope..swash as we all know owned pvp, well specced warlock was also unbeatable etc etc.</p><p>I demand a developer response NOW..but it seems the dev responsible for rangers holds no authority or intelligence WHATSOEVER and constantly lets his class get owned into the ground by more aggressive class devs.</p><p>Sort this debacle out FAST or youre gonna lose credibilty and a hell of a lot of loyal rangers.</p><p>Galoro</p>

[convict]

wow.. Far as Im concerned, they still do to much damage. Plate tanks, like zerker for example, should be wiping out scouts, but you dont see that happening. Scouts/druids rule everrun pvp and they still need to fix it.Im not going for the rock paper crap. Scouts/druids are the main classes to play, are the main classes on the server and we still need more balancing. Good work soe..

[Necodem]

<p>Yes rangers lost a good ability in pvp... but can't they solo anymore? no it's still the same, just require more time to kill, and time perhaps to learn to kite.</p><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Taking this away from them is like taking rangers and making them into want-to-be assassins without the stifle and decap. </blockquote><p>No decap = sniper shot, and with the T8 one ranger can do 4K dmg in pvp without crit !!! assassins got stifle, rangers got kitting abilities, rangerts are RANGED dps. assassin = YOU MUST BE STEALTH TO PERFORM THIS ACTION, do you that's not so easy?</p><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Focus Aim buffed the range crit chance of the ranger, There are items with heal crit mods, melee crit mods, and +heal or DPS, But Very few to actually buff the crit chance of a ranger. Also the Auto attack everyone was complaining about was mainly when they had focus aim up is when the big hits were kicking in. A rangers auto attack is not that much w/o the high crit chance, they may as well be Notsorangers now IMO for PvP.</blockquote><p>In RoK, there are a lots of items with +double atk and +crit ( for ranged and melee ), and with 400 tokens they'll get the ubber bow 960 dmg max 9s delay proc root...</p><p>Easy mode is perhaps over?</p><p>So see you in 1 month, with everyon lvl80 ( I know in 1 week most of us will be 80 ) and then you'll be able to talk again.</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Focus Aim was a huge part of a rangers spike in PvP. Evenstar, I will say if you think a ranger is going to get off Snipers against a brig, That brig is a little slow if you know what I'm talking about. Brigs get see stealth built into their stealth, </blockquote>Firstly the majority of rangers tend to cast Focused Aim and <i>then</i> attack. In fact if you manage to spot one before he unleashes on you it's always possible to tell what he's going to do next - if focus aim appears he's going to attack, if it doesn't he's about to run away. And yes, but everyone uses totems anyway. Since rangers can attack from JUST on the cusp of track range it's often possible to get close and unleash a few seconds before track updates. I'm not saying I get killed by rangers much, after all I have track too, but everyone without track does, and if a ranger unleashes on me when I decide to engage they're often going to kill me. Sure I have 8.3k hp, but when a ranger can drop 6800 damage on me in the first 3 seconds of the fight it doesn't really matter that much. If I can't get the drop on them, I am dead, and only the worst of the worst rangers allow that to happen. I dread rangers eventually getting that PvP bow.

[Krakelkr]

This is probably the biggest nerf I ever saw, it certainly is the biggest one I experienced personally. I hope that necros will at least still go down :P If you die to me in pvp now I'll call noob.I bet that the ranger whines will continue though. The only way I can kill you now is by surprise ganking you, preferably from low health. When I do that you will whine right? Now, If you would like that changed please turn your whines around and ask for rangers to be buffed instead.<u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:Most rangers will have around 25% ranged crit with AAs so once in a blue moon you will get burned into the ground (if you're squishy enough). That is not proof that rangers do a ton of damage.One more thing, even if this is compensated with awesome ranger equipment, they still completely emasculated a class from 10 to mid 70's.

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's not balancing...</p><p> Swashbucklers NEED inspiration, otherwise they stand ABSOLUTELY NO chance (try swashbuckler vs an inquisitor or a warden with 200-ish damageshield..). Alright, it's a little too powerful...but they can't kill without it.</p><p>Rangers are NOT underpowered...I've still had a ranger take me down before I could click on the bell and zone back to freeport while I was standing right on the docks (no, not Valentino...and yes, after the RoK update).</p><p>They just made rangers require better equipment than the ghostly bow and mastercrafted to kill someone (there's lots of nice crit gear for mages in RoK...I'm sure I've seen some scout pieces too, and I've definitely seen a bow with a +chance to double-attack).</p><p>Thugs can do damage yes, but a brigand shouldn't be left alive that long if you use Sniper Shot.</p></blockquote><p>You seem to have forgotten how badly Sniper shot got nerfed.  Even WITH Focus Aim, its pvp damage has been reduced.</p><p>And holding out ROK's possible equipment does nothing for all the rangers who can't even quest there yet.  This isn't just a t7 ability by the way.  It's an intergral part of a ranger's class ability.</p><p>The very night ROK came out I was killed by a 4k Ice Nova hit. (nice one Euphrates!)  Name one Ranger CA that can do that much damage.  There aren't any.  And before you start ranting about our autoattack damage, let me remind you that arrow damage and bow combat ratings were also nerfed a while back.  </p></blockquote>You seam to forget that every big hitting spell got nerfed when that came in.  Sniper shot, Harm Touch, Fusion, Ice nova.  All had there pvp dmg reduced.  My other spells now deal more dmg than my PT and i see a hell of a lot less resists on them then my pt.Grats a wizzy hit you for 4k learn to track get resists run away.  You guys can drop a mage in my group and never enter combat with the rest of the group.

[Pumancat]

<p><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Good!, learn to sprint like you tell everyone else to.</span>In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Hopefully, but we don't get a 45m head start either.</span>Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!). <span style="color: #3366ff;">DUH!</span>Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it). <span style="color: #3366ff;">what else was making rangers crit 100%</span>Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Good!</span>Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Better</span>Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out: <span style="color: #3366ff;">Almost never? more like never seen a miss.</span>Most rangers will have around 25% ranged crit with AAs so once in a blue moon you will get burned into the ground (if you're squishy enough). <span style="color: #3366ff;">Much better!</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;"> How's it feel to be average? Now it's time to L2P and depend on skills (maybe), but I expect just more of the same lame tactics rangers have been using since day 1. </span><span style="color: #3366ff;">No more super easy mode for you lame players who make the 2-6 sec kills without risk and evac away. But I'm sure your ranger playing devs and GMs will fix this "nerf" as soon as one of them gets their butt handed to them. Gods forbid their pet class have to play anything average.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffcc;">Anarcheru - 70 Bruiser</span></p>

[max.power]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:</blockquote>To the last 3 points: Really? Well, then.... taking out focus aim by SOE was the right decision. Thanks!

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:</blockquote>Welcome to ballance glad you could join the rest of eq2

[DesTripatoR]

IS it Focus Aim only? or all of them from t1 to t8? like aim-take aim etc.

[Elephanton]

<p>LOL</p><p>They just remove the ability completely... they did not tone it done for PVP - they just removed it completely.</p><p>This is insane.</p><p>I can't kill warden at 70 on my ranger (even when Focus Aim worked). Their heals are just too powerful.Remove the heals now! Don't tone them down, just remove altogether.</p><p>As I suggested earlier, leave only melee autoattack to every class for true balance.At least, it would be fair to everyone.</p><p>But don't spit in your customer's faces by doing things like this one.</p><p>And btw how smart that you put bards changes in Update Notes for LU40, but "forgot" to include this one.Same as Perpetuality / Volatile Magic nerf last update.Like we won't figure this out anyway... so stupid!</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>DesTripatoR wrote:</cite><blockquote>IS it Focus Aim only? or all of them from t1 to t8? like aim-take aim etc.</blockquote>all of them

[Roald]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The very night ROK came out I was killed by a 4k Ice Nova hit. (nice one Euphrates!)  Name one Ranger CA that can do that much damage.  There aren't any.  And before you start ranting about our autoattack damage, let me remind you that arrow damage and bow combat ratings were also nerfed a while back.  </p></blockquote><p>You seem to be making the cliche mistake of talking about damage and DPS as the same thing. So he did 4k in one shot? How long did that take to cast? 5 seconds? Rangers can't hit for that much in one shot, but sure as hell can do the same amount of damage in that time. </p><p>Honestly, rangers asking for others classes to be nerfed is pretty pathetic.</p>

[Roald]

<p><cite>Double post ftl <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></cite></p>

[Tae]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:</blockquote>It doesn't matter that your in combat speed isn't faster, you start from further away and since I'm running to you at combat speed and you're running away at combat speed I'm never going to catch you. And good. Welcome to not being horribly overpowered, you can join the rest of the scouts who had their best ability in PvP toned down because we were oneshotting with it.

[Evenstar]

<p>Rangers can still kill...I got killed by Yoruichi twice so far and didn't stand a chance.</p><p>They just made the order in which you push your buttons more important I guess...and your gear more of a factor. You have snares which seem to last forever...you have poisons which seem to proc on every attack...just because they made rangers a little harder to play doesn't mean that they're completely destroyed..</p><p>Besides which, you can go off firing at a group's healer doing a fair amount of damage...you shouldn't have to be able to down a warden in 3 seconds or less to be "balanced" (don't say that's not possible...talk to Jamilia).</p><p>EDIT: I agree with Milambers' post...you asking us to lose our abilities when a GOOD ranger can still kill us.</p>

[Xzerius]

If you want  " balance "   make a  " GROUP "  of various classes and go adventure together.   HELLO ................  this is a group based game.  Nuff Said.

[Elephanton]

<p>FYI to all non-rangers on this thread.</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Focus Aim is one single best skill in the Ranger arsenal.</span></p><p>So before you post, think what would happen and what would you feel if SOE would disable your best skill in PVP.Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game. Not tone down - but disable it completely.Just think how would you feel about your character that you invested in about 1-2 years of your time.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>FYI to all non-rangers on this thread.</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Focus Aim is one single best skill in the Ranger arsenal.</span></p><p>So before you post, think what would happen and what would you feel if SOE would disable your best skill in PVP.Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game. Not tone down - but disable it completely.Just think how would you feel about your character that you invested in about 1-2 years of your time.</p></blockquote><p>Another irrelivant point sadly. That fact is, ranger's other skills more than make up for it. They are STILL one of, if not THE most powerful class in PvP.</p><p>If my coercer was as powerful as a ranger (note: in ALL aspects of PvP) then I would't moan if they took away my mezz.</p><p>Rangers still have probably the highest burst DPS in the game. Ill log into my ranger today and see how easy it is to gun down classes, and it sure was easy even without Focus Aim.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p>QUOTE :</p><p>*****</p><p>FYI to all non-rangers on this thread.</p><p>Focus Aim is one single best skill in the Ranger arsenal.</p><p>So before you post, think what would happen and what would you feel if SOE would disable your best skill in PVP.Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game. Not tone down - but disable it completely.Just think how would you feel about your character that you invested in about 1-2 years of your time</p><p>********</p><p>Been there, Did that, Got the T shirt,  WELCOME TO THE CLUB !!!!</p><p>/evillaugh</p>

[Tae]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game. Not tone down - but disable it completely. <p>Just think how would you feel about your character that you invested in about 1-2 years of your time.</p></blockquote>They already did it. Twice. Now you actually have to be able to play your class to kill people with your ranger. Surely you should be glad, all the flavour of the month people playing your class will vanish like happened with the Shadowknights.

[Evenstar]

<p>If they let furies cast Back into the Fray on themselves..we'd be equal to rangers with Focused Aim.</p><p>But furies can't cast it on themselves, now can they? </p><p>Say they gave Coercers track...then they removed their mesmerise...I don't think any coercers could really complain about that.</p><p>Imagine rangers didn't have Snipershot...they removed focused aim and gave you snipershot...you wouldn't be complaining about it, would you?</p>

[Stubbadub]

Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?

[Tae]

<cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote>Most people wouldn't care, since only a few classes get good master II choices. You should see the brigand level 75 ones, good god.

[Evenstar]

<cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote><p>So...are you saying that Focused Aim is as balanced as say...healers' single target heal (the powerful one)?</p><p>Healers have their heal removed, is that what you're asking for? Ah...right, it's about BALANCE!!! Our heals are so overpowered, don't you agree? I mean..a wizard can ONLY hit for 1/3 that amount in their most basic spell. /sarcasm off</p>

[Stubbadub]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote>Most people wouldn't care, since only a few classes get good master II choices. You should see the brigand level 75 ones, good god.</blockquote>Heh, same for rangers. Love to know who came up with the choices.@ EvenstarWhat people fail to see is that not all rangers are ubah pvpers. I know i am not. I lose frequently to healers, sorcerers and pretty much every other class out there. I am not saying that Focus is not over powered but to remove the ability completely??? Not even scale it down? with no mention in any update notes if i am correct. Why would the devs not mention it?There are some very good rangers out there who kill people very fast so does that mean everyone who plays the class is able to do that? There are also very good players in every class so should we nerf every other class because people play it well?

[Grimfort]

<cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are some very good rangers out there who kill people very fast so does that mean everyone who plays the class is able to do that? There are also very good players in every class so should we nerf every other class because people play it well?</blockquote><p>You have actually answered your own question here. Normal run-of-the-mill rangers, were able to whoop but of even great pvp'ers. The change that was made seems to have brought that level down, so that those players who were awesome can still pwn, but those 3 button players now have to up their game along with everyone else to reach this pwner status.</p>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote>Most people wouldn't care, since only a few classes get good master II choices. You should see the brigand level 75 ones, good god.</blockquote>Heh, same for rangers. Love to know who came up with the choices.@ EvenstarWhat people fail to see is that not all rangers are ubah pvpers. I know i am not. I lose frequently to healers, sorcerers and pretty much every other class out there. I am not saying that Focus is not over powered but to remove the ability completely??? Not even scale it down? with no mention in any update notes if i am correct. Why would the devs not mention it?There are some very good rangers out there who kill people very fast so does that mean everyone who plays the class is able to do that? There are also very good players in every class so should we nerf every other class because people play it well?</blockquote>Welcome to the WoW Warrior. Due to rage mechanics and top of the line gear the class got completely nerfed repeatedly, and in top of the line gear even after nerf after nerf, they are still complete beasts. Gonna be the same with ranger, just takes more in terms of gear and skill now to be what they were and not just a 59 treasured bow on a lvl 70 3 shotting people because they cast 1 10 sec duration buff. The only thing i can see that would make focus aim viable in pvp without halving its increases or yadda yadda, would be to have a scale down. Attack 1 does max, attack 2 does 66% attack 3 does 33% and attack 4 the buff is removed.

[yellowbelly08]

<p>ok update here</p><p>Focus aim definitely does not work when prebuffed. The 1st shot does not get the buff. Last fight at start you hit Boondock <clothy...> for 210 crushing damage. Over duration of fight autos only topped 400 once with most around 200 mark <with 600 str>. This is with fabled 67 bow. Absolute madness.</p><p>Rain of arrows in 6 test fights only landed ONCE due to fa nerf and was blocked/parried etc. The one that hit hit leather 1100.</p><p>Nerfed to oblivion for sure this is crazy. Tried kiting long range a bruiser thouight it may be possible..nope..pwned.</p><p>Dev response still pending?</p><p>Galoro</p>

[rvbarton]

<p>Survivability for healers, primarily Mystics ( I play a mystic ), and Templars should be looked at in 1 vs. 1 PVP.</p><p>I fought a even con opposing faction character in Kylong Plains, with enough warning to be able to pre-ward myself.  For almost 40 seconds, my vision was blurred and I could only cast one spell ( 4 sec cast time, Mystic Single target ward),  and then I hit my Emergency group ward (instant cast), both together total equal to over 4k in damage prevention, including my pre-group ward, adding an additional 2100 dmg prevention, and my own hitpoints were around 6000, during this, totaling over 12k in damage I should have been able to endure and still live.  </p><p>As soon as the blur wore off I was dead.  </p><p>healers have a very difficult time surviving in one vs. one PVP.  </p><p>Devs, please look at this.</p>

[Snowlywhite]

stop smokin'...

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The very night ROK came out I was killed by a 4k Ice Nova hit. (nice one Euphrates!)  Name one Ranger CA that can do that much damage.  There aren't any.  And before you start ranting about our autoattack damage, let me remind you that arrow damage and bow combat ratings were also nerfed a while back.  </p></blockquote><p>You seem to be making the cliche mistake of talking about damage and DPS as the same thing. So he did 4k in one shot? How long did that take to cast? 5 seconds? Rangers can't hit for that much in one shot, but sure as hell can do the same amount of damage in that time. </p><p>Honestly, rangers asking for others classes to be nerfed is pretty pathetic.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not making the mistake of trying to confuse the issue by claiming that what maybe 2% of the ranger population can produce top dps wise.  It isn't a class wide ability to pump out 4k dmg in 5 seconds.  Certainly not anymore!</p><p>The point is that we want other classes to receive the same Dev luv we've been getting! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Or either that, the Ranger haters realize that we can no longer be picked on, and your class is next!</p><p>If your class has any temporary buffs that give you any benefit in pvp combat, beware! </p><p>For that matter, if you have any buffs that increase your group's ability to do more damage in PvP fights, you better watch out too!</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game. Not tone down - but disable it completely. <p>Just think how would you feel about your character that you invested in about 1-2 years of your time.</p></blockquote>They already did it. Twice. Now you actually have to be able to play your class to kill people with your ranger. Surely you should be glad, all the flavour of the month people playing your class will vanish like happened with the Shadowknights.</blockquote>If your talking about Dispatch its still messes me up far more than it ever should and When I cure (If I'm not stunned) it NEVER comes off.

[Notsovilepriest]

<cite>rvbarton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Survivability for healers, primarily Mystics ( I play a mystic ), and Templars should be looked at in 1 vs. 1 PVP.</p><p>I fought a even con opposing faction character in Kylong Plains, with enough warning to be able to pre-ward myself.  For almost 40 seconds, my vision was blurred and I could only cast one spell ( 4 sec cast time, Mystic Single target ward),  and then I hit my Emergency group ward (instant cast), both together total equal to over 4k in damage prevention, including my pre-group ward, adding an additional 2100 dmg prevention, and my own hitpoints were around 6000, during this, totaling over 12k in damage I should have been able to endure and still live.  </p><p>As soon as the blur wore off I was dead.  </p><p>healers have a very difficult time surviving in one vs. one PVP.  </p><p>Devs, please look at this.</p></blockquote>Honestly, If your losing as a Mystic in 1 on1 with prewards. You really really need to rethink what your doing. The only people that should kill you are druids and clerics if prewarded. and ST ward is 2 sec cast...

[Zacarus]

<p >My tier 2 ranger doesn’t even have the CA in question yet, so my $.02 may be worth less than that…</p> <p >Also I will freely admit this tier 2 ranger of mine is my 3^rd alternate behind my main… (so I play him like crap relative to the others)…</p> <p >Just for yucks I solo’d him around dlw for ½ hour last night.<span>  </span>I went 5-0 in that stretch, killing two oranges (a necro and a bruiser), one yellow (zerker) and two blues.<span>  </span>The necro managed to get my hp into the yellow, but the others couldn’t get me out of the green.</p> <p >This class is so powerful its sick.<span>  </span>I think I’ll play him more often.<span>  </span>><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span>  </span>Stop crying and adapt.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

Also I would like to add, I don't play a ranger at all so don't flame me for that. I play a Mystic, Pally, and Guardian so <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tae]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>If you're talking about Dispatch its still messes me up far more than it ever should and When I cure (If I'm not stunned) it NEVER comes off.</blockquote>I was talking about double up. Dispatch isn't very good in PvP - Devitalize is actually better. Only by a little, but still. Dispatch<i>ed</i> however is a hell of a boost and I'm sure they'll nerf it soon enough. Incidentally we fought Kalak three times yesterday and every time he cured himself of Dispatch.

[Magius789]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:</blockquote>Welcome to ballance glad you could join the rest of eq2</blockquote><p>Sk's have pseudo tank HP, decent nukes, good debuff, lifetaps, heals when taking dmg, and an FD.  Yea you are the spitting image of balance.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Give me a break.</p><p>Most of the people on here are just aggreeing with the REMOVAL of the skill, notice how I didn't say nerf, because rangers are one of the only few classess that give them trouble in PvP.  They are just happy now no one will give them a fight.....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[pseudocide]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Welcome to ballance glad you could join the rest of eq2</blockquote>shadowknights aren't allowed to talk about balance...

[Marcula]

<p><span style="color: #00ccff;">But a Paladin can....haa ha</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Snip ~</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Focus Aim is one single best skill in the Ranger arsenal.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">So before you post, think what would happen and what would you feel if SOE would disable your best skill in PVP.<span style="color: #ccff00;">Simple as that, take your best and most usefil PVP skill, and remove it from game.</span> Not tone down - but disable it completely.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I would hate it if they removed my uber PvP skill as a Pally......just trying to figure out what it is.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> I seriously love this game!</span></p>

[Stuckx]

<cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote>Most people wouldn't care, since only a few classes get good master II choices.You should see the brigand level 75 ones, good god.</blockquote>Heh, same for rangers. Love to know who came up with the choices.@ EvenstarWhat people fail to see is that not all rangers are ubah pvpers. I know i am not. I lose frequently to healers, sorcerers and pretty much every other class out there. I am not saying that Focus is not over powered but to remove the ability completely??? Not even scale it down? with no mention in any update notes if i am correct. Why would the devs not mention it?There are some very good rangers out there who kill people very fast so does that mean everyone who plays the class is able to do that? There are also very good players in every class so should we nerf every other class because people play it well?</blockquote>So,just because you don't really know how to play your class,you shouldn't get nerfed?The rangers that CAN kill anyone in under 3 seconds proved that rangers are Overpowered.

[Stinkybeagle]

About time they did somthing to slightly make rangers less desireable becouse there has been way to many of them for obviouse reasons.... So quit crieing and suck it up like all the other classes that got nerfed way before this one did , long over due. Besides rangers are still picken off clothies in groups so the nerf isnt that major anyways. You just have to be more carfull and actully work " a little harder , imagen that" to get your pvp kill.

[toenukl]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't kill warden at 70 on my ranger (even when Focus Aim worked). Their heals are just too powerful.<p>Remove the heals now! Don't tone them down, just remove altogether.</p></blockquote>That would be like removing your bow... and heals HAVE been toned down...

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ransagorthemerciless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>stubbadubb wrote:</cite><blockquote>Id say that most rangers picked this as their T7 master 2 choice. How about asking for all other classes to have their master 2 choice disabled in pvp?</blockquote>Most people wouldn't care, since only a few classes get good master II choices.You should see the brigand level 75 ones, good god.</blockquote>Heh, same for rangers. Love to know who came up with the choices.@ EvenstarWhat people fail to see is that not all rangers are ubah pvpers. I know i am not. I lose frequently to healers, sorcerers and pretty much every other class out there. I am not saying that Focus is not over powered but to remove the ability completely??? Not even scale it down? with no mention in any update notes if i am correct. Why would the devs not mention it?There are some very good rangers out there who kill people very fast so does that mean everyone who plays the class is able to do that? There are also very good players in every class so should we nerf every other class because people play it well?</blockquote>So,just because you don't really know how to play your class,you shouldn't get nerfed?The rangers that CAN kill anyone in under 3 seconds proved that rangers are Overpowered.</blockquote><p>Quit exxagerating.  3 seconds to kill ANYONE?  Please, thats just a load of manure!  If that were the case, rangers would be the only class played on the Q side!  THEN, I might agree with you.</p><p>Its one thing to reduce the effectiveness of a class ability, its totally different when you remove an ability altogether.</p><p>For example;</p><p>Removal of FD in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Manashield in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Lifetap in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Inspiration in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Lay on Hands in PvP combat  ( for you wanderingwilly!)</p><p>Removal of Wards in PvP combat (sorry Notso 8( }</p><p>Removal of Charm in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Illusary Arm in PvP combat.</p><p>Removal of Mez in PvP combat.</p>

[Snowlywhite]

so let me get it... 43% crit chance(at m1) + ~25% crit chance(your gear) ~ 70% crit chance...dude, this ain't "lucky crits", that's pure maths, saying more then 2 of each 3 shots of yours are crits...

[Elephanton]

<p>Truth is, yes rangers can kill in 3 sec, but only non-manashielded clothies.So it's 2 classes on FP side, and 2 classes from FP side (exiled).All other classes, nothing close to 3 sec (unless they are AFK).</p><p>By design, rangers are designed to kill clothies (sharp metal things vs. cloth - makes sense?)Why is the ranger nerfed for being able to kill those classes it is designed to kill?</p><p>Ranger with top fabled bow can indeed kill more classes easily, but there are about 10% of such rangers only.Why instead toning down hi end equipment, they nerf all rangers?Imagine how sucky rangers with MC bows will be now (90% of rangers?)</p>

[Darkor]

<p>Lvl 70 Fury in complete pvp armor here, got killed by a ranger in less than 1 second. Have enough people to witness it. Feel free to send Valentino (the ranger) a tell, he will gladly tell you that its the truth.</p><p>EDIT: No miracles, no godly fabled bows. Just focus aim + bylze bow = 7k dmg done in about 1 second</p><p> EDIT2: i got auto attacked by 2.2k on my necro lololol.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Looks like you all are still arguing (5 pages later) about balance amongst the top few classes.  Balance starts at the bottom.</p><p>As long as you are able to utterly decimate 99% of the guardians that you face in solo pvp, you have no basis at all for requesting additional powers to be granted to other classes (and whether your class used to have that power or not is irrelevant.)</p><p>Any upgrade you give to the ranger class today can only result in a greater imbalance of solo pvp.   You are asking for more power to be granted to the ranger, the result of which would make killing guardians even more trivial.   How is that balance?</p><p>Balance is asking for guardians to be somewhat close to on par with these classes that have been mentioned in this thread.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's.In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's.Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!).Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it).Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out.Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out:</blockquote>Welcome to ballance glad you could join the rest of eq2</blockquote><p>Sk's have pseudo tank HP, decent nukes, good debuff, lifetaps, heals when taking dmg, and an FD.  Yea you are the spitting image of balance.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Give me a break.</p><p>Most of the people on here are just aggreeing with the REMOVAL of the skill, notice how I didn't say nerf, because rangers are one of the only few classess that give them trouble in PvP.  They are just happy now no one will give them a fight.....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Well, lets talk a bit about sks. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Pseudo tank HP for an actual tank? [Removed for Content]. Dont think a tank should have ACTUAL tank hp rather than pseudo do ya? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Debuffs are ok, yep. Try landing the mit debuff on another player, or the disease, or wis. Not so good anymore. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Lifetaps, yup. thats basically the sks forte. But heals? what heals? We dont get no stinkin heals. Its all lifetaps.FD? Whoa. A 5 min reuse FD is a powerful ability in pvp? I can think of a lot of other tricks the sks have that outshine this one by a mile. Wanna trade the FD for track? Hehe. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But I can see why a ranger feels sks are so powerful. Honestly, I do. Rangers are the bread and butter for my sk really. Or were should I say. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now he's just everyones token vending machine.

[Magius789]

He didn't say if it was an auto attack or a CA.  That does seem crazy high if it was an auto attack but not a CA.  I can't count the times I've been Ice Nova'd or PT'd for over 4k dmg.  So everybody complaining about a 2k crit from us is just laughable.

[Roald]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>He didn't say if it was an auto attack or a CA.  </blockquote><cite>yellowbelly08 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>my highest pvp autto attack <3.2k on Pett- lucky crit with grp debuff-so dont go say sure you needed a nerf></p></blockquote>Huh?

[Elephanton]

<cite>Nail@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>reduce the damage on some of those top tier fabled bows in PvP, or auto attack dmg period, and give Focus Aim back.</blockquote>I'd like that... probably just reduce crit rate x2 times in PVP, or remove critz completely - but leave the spell alone.

[Elephanton]

<cite>Verith@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its a shame that most of the rangers here rely on just one skill.</blockquote><p>LOL, it's a shame that burst DPS class relies on their #1 burst DPS skill.</p><p>Let me try now:It's a shame that healers rely on just one skill - heal.</p><p>Did it make sense?Probably not... just as the stuff I quoted.</p>

[Taldier]

<p>Just my 2cp, what I've seen fighting rangers since the nerf:</p><p>Tactic that no longer works well for rangers:  Engage from max range (perferably from on top of something), hit 3 buttons, if target is still alive - run away.</p><p>Tactic that still allows rangers to be one of the best (if not still the best) pvp classes:   using ALL the buttons on your hotbars just like EVERYONE else.</p><p>Welcome to balance.</p><p>To those complaining that they dont deserve to be nerfed because they dont know how to play.....thats the point...why should you be able to kill anyone if you openly admit to not knowing how to play the game?....and yet you all told people who complained about rangers to L2P...</p><p>L2P!</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Taldier wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Tactic that still allows rangers to be one of the best (if not still the best) pvp classes:   using ALL the buttons on your hotbars just like EVERYONE else. <p>Welcome to balance.</p></blockquote><p>LOL you should learn the class you are posting about my friend.I really wish we could use ALL the buttons - but SOE made it so that 80% of them get disabled when my foe gets into melee range.</p><p>Fine, all of our main skills don't work in melee range, so rangers started to run away shooting - but SOE came and removed ability for our skills to be used on the run, you have to stand still now.What do we do now? We started to kite our enemies - stopping briefly to shoot - but SOE came and removed our in-combat speed and nerfed #1 kiting utility (Leg Shot).What next? The only option left to us after all those nerfs was to try to kill fast before our foe gets into melee range and disable our skills - this is removed also with Focus Aim line removal.</p><p>Just a little history lesson about rangers for you here.</p>

[Stubbadub]

<cite>Taldier wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just my 2cp, what I've seen fighting rangers since the nerf:</p><p>Tactic that no longer works well for rangers:  Engage from max range (perferably from on top of something), hit 3 buttons, if target is still alive - run away.</p><p>Tactic that still allows rangers to be one of the best (if not still the best) pvp classes:   using ALL the buttons on your hotbars just like EVERYONE else.</p><p>Welcome to balance.</p><p><b>To those complaining that they dont deserve to be nerfed because they dont know how to play.....thats the point...why should you be able to kill anyone if you openly admit to not knowing how to play the game?</b>....and yet you all told people who complained about rangers to L2P...</p><p>L2P!</p></blockquote>If that is a reply to my comment about not being a great pvp'er then you have taken it out of context. I said i wasn't a very good at pvp not that i dont know how to play my class. I am not setup for pvp aa wise and gear wise. The only thing down the int line that helps in pvp is Intox and that has only just started to proc of bow shots. Before last update it only proc'd of melee. Sta, Str and Wis line all offer more pvp benefits but all hurt your top dps in the end.

[Siphar]

<p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p><p>It was about time SoE did <i>something</i> to to curve the ranger spike dps.</p><p>Frankly it is a joke compared to assassin's who rely on stealth/concealment way too much to get off any dps.</p><p>/CLAP soe</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>Oh come on Siphar, not only have they nerfed rangers they've done it in <i>exactly</i> the way you asked in your thread a month or two back. You can't be unhappy about that surely.

[mtwideen]

I just wanna point out, that I have grouped with rangers and talked to them while they were soloing. I know this sucks that u lost focus aim, I think they could have nerfed it, or something instead of killing it in PVP all together, but rangers are still a VERY good class. All the rangers I know are still doing just fine. I was in a group with 2 of them today, and they were getting kills before the rest of the group could even get a shot in. I was running full speed, with my ranged bow waiting to attack, and I couldn't get a hit in before they did killed some freeps cause they had extension, and after each of them hit a freep, they were dead sometimes, especially with the right combo of poison/double attack/crit. and I am talking about auto attacks here. So I do agree that they could have done something else to nerf rangers... but rangers are in no way underpowered right now. They still have like 30% crit with some gear (I know not all of u have it, but still) and they still do a LOT of spike dps. So I dunno how all you rangers are doing without focus aim, but all the ones I know are doing just fine.

[Notsovilepriest]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p><p>It was about time SoE did <i>something</i> to to curve the ranger spike dps.</p><p>Frankly it is a joke compared to assassin's who rely on stealth/concealment way too much to get off any dps.</p><p>/CLAP soe</p></blockquote>You complain too much, FACT!

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>If you call 20% crit "almost every shot", then you can as well say "any other class can crit every shot" because almost all classes can achieve 20% crits with KOS AA and gear. That's top DPS classes only, while other classes can go up to 100% crits easily.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Lvl 70 Fury in complete pvp armor here, got killed by a ranger in less than 1 second. Have enough people to witness it. Feel free to send Valentino (the ranger) a tell, he will gladly tell you that its the truth.</p><p>EDIT: No miracles, no godly fabled bows. Just focus aim + bylze bow = 7k dmg done in about 1 second</p></blockquote><p>In case it has slipped your attention, focus aim doesn't work in pvp.</p><blockquote> EDIT2: i got auto attacked by 2.2k on my necro lololol.</blockquote><p>That focus aim doesn't work in pvp doesn't mean that crits doesn't work (In case you didn't know). In fact I wrote something to that effect in my ranger-facts-for-dummies post on page 3.</p><p>Cause you didn't mean to imply that killing someone in 1 second isn't overpowered, right? Or that 2.2k (lololol) isn't overpowered?</p><p>Your glee is understandable but it's ugly just the same. (<--- this not directed particularly at ajjantis [edited in])</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Lvl 70 Fury in complete pvp armor here, got killed by a ranger in less than 1 second. Have enough people to witness it. Feel free to send Valentino (the ranger) a tell, he will gladly tell you that its the truth.</p><p>EDIT: No miracles, no godly fabled bows. Just focus aim + bylze bow = 7k dmg done in about 1 second</p></blockquote><p>In case it has slipped your attention, focus aim doesn't work in pvp.</p><blockquote> EDIT2: i got auto attacked by 2.2k on my necro lololol.</blockquote><p>That focus aim doesn't work in pvp doesn't mean that crits doesn't work (In case you didn't know). In fact I wrote something to that effect in my ranger-facts-for-dummies post on page 3.</p><p>Cause you didn't mean to imply that killing someone in 1 second isn't overpowered, right? Or that 2.2k (lololol) isn't overpowered?</p><p>Your glee is understandable but it's ugly just the same.</p></blockquote>He was talking about before the change.

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>Before several changes, actually.  The truth is, every single ability that ranger's have has now been nerfed or removed.</p><p>Our CA's were nerfed.</p><p>Our run ability nerfed.</p><p>Our arrows damage nerfed.</p><p>Our poison damage nerfed.</p><p>Our weapons nerfed.</p><p>Now Focus Aim gets removed completely.  The funny thing is, even with Focus Aim (before) we still had to offer a sacrifice to the RNG Gods and hope they heard us.  Thats right, even with the percentage increase focus aim gives us, its still subject to RNG.  This being taken away from rangers in PvP just stacked the  RNG deck to be continuosly against us.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>If you call 20% crit "almost every shot", then you can as well say "any other class can crit every shot" because almost all classes can achieve 20% crits with KOS AA and gear. That's top DPS classes only, while other classes can go up to 100% crits easily.</blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p>I personally check every single fight log (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p>With this change, I have seen less crits, thank god. I would say closer to 75% now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>Oh come on Siphar, not only have they nerfed rangers they've done it in <i>exactly</i> the way you asked in your thread a month or two back. You can't be unhappy about that surely.</blockquote><p>Hence why I said "/clap SoE"</p><p>I have to <b>congratulate</b> SoE for a number of changes to Eq2 with kunark.. they have really come through for a number of serious problems..</p><p>When someone said, EQ2 is as balanced as ever, i would have to agree.. I finally feel mortal again in kunark.. as it should be..</p><p>Rangers know they were unbalanced before (and perhaps even still now /shrug), coming to the boards and calling for other classes to be nerf'd is just wrong. Forgive my bluntness but... Suck it up, L2P and start earning those tokens for a change like the rest of us...</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Before several changes, actually.  The truth is, every single ability that ranger's have has now been nerfed or removed.</p><p>Our CA's were nerfed. <span style="color: #6633cc;">? you mean the blanket nerf? All the high damage class CA's were nerf'd.. suck it up..</span></p><p>Our <b><span style="color: #6633cc;">in-combat</span></b> run ability nerfed. <span style="color: #6633cc;">? As a clear indication that you were OP, this was a good change. Affected furies more IMO.. suck it up pls.. they did..</span></p><p>Our arrows damage nerfed. <span style="color: #6633cc;">? Another OP factor which was a good change. +hit bonus etc.. like you even needed it. PC's were dying in 2-3 seconds and even with these arrow nerf's they last what? an extra second? suck it up..</span></p><p>Our poison damage nerfed. <span style="color: #6633cc;">? I havent seen this change as an assassin. We are supposed to be equal classes on opposite sides. ranger >>>> Assassin for a long time. Suck it up. My assassin does as do all the other poison using chars..</span></p><p>Our weapons nerfed. <span style="color: #6633cc;">? What weapons? you mean the dual wield changes? You barely even use melee (high delay bows are still unbalanced IMO, but atleast all fighter/scout classes can use them, even though the ranger buffs make them far superior to anyone else). Infact the only melee you should even need is point blank shot before you use range again. Suck it up...</span></p><p>Now Focus Aim gets removed completely.  The funny thing is, even with Focus Aim (before) we still had to offer a sacrifice to the RNG Gods and hope they heard us.  Thats right, even with the percentage increase focus aim gives us, its still subject to RNG.  This being taken away from rangers in PvP just stacked the  RNG deck to be continuosly against us. </p><p><span style="color: #6633cc;">? The population has spoke out about this countless times, especially with regard to rangers having superior run speed.. they can still chose who they fight.. and can STILL out run almost every class. Although some new racial traits allows some races to boost their OOC speed for 36 seconds. The zones are so big, unless you are 36 seconds close to a zoneline/sok bird, the ranger will still catch you.. and chose when and where to fight..</span></p><span style="color: #6633cc;">The classes are as <b>balanced</b> as ever now, the only people that will disagree are Rangers and people with their head in the sand... My 2 cp.. peace out..</span></blockquote>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Lvl 70 Fury in complete pvp armor here, got killed by a ranger in less than 1 second. Have enough people to witness it. Feel free to send Valentino (the ranger) a tell, he will gladly tell you that its the truth.</p><p>EDIT: No miracles, no godly fabled bows. Just focus aim + bylze bow = 7k dmg done in about 1 second</p></blockquote><p>In case it has slipped your attention, focus aim doesn't work in pvp.</p>[snip]</blockquote>He was talking about before the change.</blockquote><p>Why would he be talking about the past...</p><p>  Aha!!!</p><p>He's having a guilty consience about this whole business, as if his complaining, alone, brought this nerf about. So naturally he feels a need to publicly rationalize his prior "exaggerations" (as if it would be justification enough for the magnitude of this nerf).</p><p>/armchairmode off</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p>I personally check every single fight log (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p>With this change, I have seen less crits, thank god. I would say closer to 75% now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL this is the most uneducated post I've seen on these forums!!!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Did you inspect your logs for at least 1000 battles with ranger? Because you cannot judge on any random stuff using logs from just couple of battles, it does not work this way, if you'd graduate technical university you would know this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you want to confirm exact formula for any random process, you need to study a very long set of results (the longer the better). If you'd study logs from 1000 battles, you would see that average crit rate for rangers now is about 22% indeed.</p><p>But what you say is complete and utter BS.It's like rolling the dice 2 times, getting 6 both times and concluding that this dice has 100% probability to roll 6...  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><b>I personally check every single fight log</b></span> (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p>With this change, I have seen less crits, thank god. I would say closer to 75% now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL this is the most uneducated post I've seen on these forums!!!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">/Jim-carey "Reeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly.................."</span></p><p>Did you inspect your logs for at least 1000 battles with ranger? <b><span style="font-size: large;color: #ff3366;">Yes I did..</span></b> Because you cannot judge on any random stuff using logs from just couple of battles, it does not work this way, if you'd graduate technical university you would know this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">I'm a doctor. Did you finish high school with this reply?</span></p><p>If you want to confirm exact formula for any random process, you need to study a very long set of results (the longer the better). <span style="color: #ff3366;">I know and I do, I have several thousand kills and thousands of fights, lots against a ranger. I can say for certain my numbers above are accurate as far as my log are concerned..</span></p><p>If you'd study logs from 1000 battles, you would see that average crit rate for rangers now is about 22% indeed. <span style="color: #ff3366;">Wrong, wrong, wrong! If you took the time to check the logs before this change, you would have seen the crit rate was much higher than 22%.</span></p><p>But what you say is complete and utter BS. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I am using my own logs and real numbers. All you have done is make a blanket statement about a random formula you have proved you know nothing about. Regardless of whether I know the formula or not, that doesn't matter because I have checked all my physical logs. i.e. the Logs.</span>It's like rolling the dice 2 times, getting 6 both times and concluding that this dice has 100% probability to roll 6...  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Actually no it's not. I have looked at all my logs at some point and found very few non-crits at the start of ranger fights (when focus aim is almost always up). In effect I rolled that dice thousand's of times (exactly as you stated I should) and came to my conclusion from that. Understand yet?</span></p></blockquote>

[Siphar]

<p>Rangers who replied here are just trying to stir up trouble. I'm not replying again or adding any more fuel to their fire <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>SoE FTW...</p>

[Radigazt]

<p>I have a high level Brig, but even I'll admit that Brigs--despite being repeatedly beaten about the face with the nerfbat--are still overpowered.  But Swashy's, come on, they're waaaaaaay overpowered and quite overdue for the nerfbat.  Inspiration, yeah I've said for a long time that the long-timer powers (more than 1 min recasts) cannot be balanced by simply giving them longer timers ... it's the same problem as Harm Touch, it's just too much regardless of the re-cast time.  I've been for modifying these things for a long time, but if they're not modified, then hell, just nerf 'em.  As far as Blessings and Miracles, please just disable those on a PvP server.  </p><p>Look, it's hard enough balancing class, particularly on a loot-based gear game.  But, when you add in all those nifty pile-on abilities, you're just inviting exploits and imablance.  Personally, I'd like to revamp things, but I can't see the drastic changes needed actually happening.  Make no re-cast longer than 1 minute. If it's not balanced on a 1 minute recast timer, then it's too powerful for PvP, period.  Unfortunately, I think it's going to be years (think EQ3) before anyone even considers things like this.  </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><b>I personally check every single fight log</b></span> (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p>With this change, I have seen less crits, thank god. I would say closer to 75% now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL this is the most uneducated post I've seen on these forums!!!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">/Jim-carey "Reeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly.................."</span></p><p>Did you inspect your logs for at least 1000 battles with ranger? <b><span style="font-size: large;color: #ff3366;">Yes I did..</span></b> Because you cannot judge on any random stuff using logs from just couple of battles, it does not work this way, if you'd graduate technical university you would know this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">I'm a doctor. Did you finish high school with this reply?</span></p><p>If you want to confirm exact formula for any random process, you need to study a very long set of results (the longer the better). <span style="color: #ff3366;">I know and I do, I have several thousand kills and thousands of fights, lots against a ranger. I can say for certain my numbers above are accurate as far as my log are concerned..</span></p><p>If you'd study logs from 1000 battles, you would see that average crit rate for rangers now is about 22% indeed. <span style="color: #ff3366;">Wrong, wrong, wrong! If you took the time to check the logs before this change, you would have seen the crit rate was much higher than 22%.</span></p><p>But what you say is complete and utter BS. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I am using my own logs and real numbers. All you have done is make a blanket statement about a random formula you have proved you know nothing about. Regardless of whether I know the formula or not, that doesn't matter because I have checked all my physical logs. i.e. the Logs.</span>It's like rolling the dice 2 times, getting 6 both times and concluding that this dice has 100% probability to roll 6...  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Actually no it's not. I have looked at all my logs at some point and found very few non-crits at the start of ranger fights (when focus aim is almost always up). In effect I rolled that dice thousand's of times (exactly as you stated I should) and came to my conclusion from that. Understand yet?</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>The problem you are glossing over is the fact that your logs only reflect your fights.  Are you an average player of your specific class? Above average?  Below average?  Does your logs show the results of 1000's of fights with rangers using different classes, equipment, levels, weapons, etc.?  Does it take into account different AA builds, both on rangers and the other classes pitted against rangers as opponents?</p><p>Finally, do your logs show the actual crit% chance of the ranger(s) you fought?  Have you fought a wide enough base of rangers in different types of gear, or just a few rangers, well known to you?  What equipment, adornments, bows, and arrows were used in these fights against you?  How many times were you hit for a crit and how many times were you not?  What was the minimum amount of damage, what was the max, what was the average?</p><p>Just using your logs as the reason behind you being happy that another class has lost one of its primary abilities is a shaded opinion.  I'm not stating that you don't have a right to your opinion, but you do need to realize that it is colored by your perspective.  Simply sticking to the facts is hard in any case, for me its doubly hard when as a playing ranger.  Which is why rangers wonder why this ninja change, with no mention in update notes.</p><p>As for other classes getting their high CA's nerfed, then how come Ice Nova is still hitting people for so much damage, just to use one example.  And what is it's reuse timer anyway?  </p><p>I simply made a list of what the rangers have had taken away from them, I did not make any complaints in regards to each one, but to the totality of them all.</p><p>Will some rangers continue to have high crit %'s?  Yes, simply because of gear, and a lucky RNG.  Does this mean all rangers?  No. A plain analogy is when you find one broken egg in a dozen, you don't throw the other eleven out.  this is exactly what SOE has done though, in the name of balance.</p><p>Since this is SOE's policy towards change, I see no other alternative than to call out when I see an imbalance in another classes abilities (ie. Ice Nova, inspiration, Mana Shield, Thugs, etc.) and ask them to be given the same treatment rangers have enjoyed for the last year.  </p><p>After all if you can't beat them (those that have been saying rangers are op, nerf em), join em!</p><p>I don't believe Balance can be achieved this way, but what other solutions have players been left with?  </p>

[pseudocide]

i swear some people will think rangers are overpowered until we aren't allowed to use bows anymore. 

[toenukl]

<cite>Guerrilla@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>i swear some people will think rangers are overpowered until we aren't allowed to use bows anymore.  </blockquote>Thus starts my crusade to remove Rangers bows <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Tae]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>As for other classes getting their high CA's nerfed, then how come Ice Nova is still hitting people for so much damage, just to use one example.  And what is it's reuse timer anyway? </blockquote>Ice Nova has a long casting time and is interruptable.

[Siphar]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><b>I personally check every single fight log</b></span> (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p>With this change, I have seen less crits, thank god. I would say closer to 75% now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL this is the most uneducated post I've seen on these forums!!!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">/Jim-carey "Reeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly.................."</span></p><p>Did you inspect your logs for at least 1000 battles with ranger? <b><span style="font-size: large;color: #ff3366;">Yes I did..</span></b> Because you cannot judge on any random stuff using logs from just couple of battles, it does not work this way, if you'd graduate technical university you would know this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">I'm a doctor. Did you finish high school with this reply?</span></p><p>If you want to confirm exact formula for any random process, you need to study a very long set of results (the longer the better). <span style="color: #ff3366;">I know and I do, I have several thousand kills and thousands of fights, lots against a ranger. I can say for certain my numbers above are accurate as far as my log are concerned..</span></p><p>If you'd study logs from 1000 battles, you would see that average crit rate for rangers now is about 22% indeed. <span style="color: #ff3366;">Wrong, wrong, wrong! If you took the time to check the logs before this change, you would have seen the crit rate was much higher than 22%.</span></p><p>But what you say is complete and utter BS. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I am using my own logs and real numbers. All you have done is make a blanket statement about a random formula you have proved you know nothing about. Regardless of whether I know the formula or not, that doesn't matter because I have checked all my physical logs. i.e. the Logs.</span>It's like rolling the dice 2 times, getting 6 both times and concluding that this dice has 100% probability to roll 6...  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Actually no it's not. I have looked at all my logs at some point and found very few non-crits at the start of ranger fights (when focus aim is almost always up). In effect I rolled that dice thousand's of times (exactly as you stated I should) and came to my conclusion from that. Understand yet?</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>The problem you are glossing over is the fact that your logs only reflect your fights.  Are you an average player of your specific class? <span style="color: #ff3366;">I'd say no, my gear is mostly fabled with practically full M1 (at 70 before ROK anyway)</span> Above average? <span style="color: #ff3366;">Gear-wise, certainly.. My assassin uses a shield and sat (before ROk) at like 435-440 defence/parry etc..</span> Below average?  Does your logs show the results of 1000's of fights with rangers using different classes, equipment, levels, weapons, etc.?  <span style="color: #ff3366;">No, I would say most of the fights against rangers are against PvP rangers. Rangers who actively PvP, quest and gear up (from visual I can see pvp/class armor and fabled weapons.</span> Does it take into account different AA builds, both on rangers and the other classes pitted against rangers as opponents? <span style="color: #ff3366;">I don't know their AA trees, but I would bet a lot of rangers chat, read the forums and build either for PvP or raiding. Purely raiding rangers (and AA spec'd) won't really PvP much (in comparison to purely pvp rangers anyway). Being a ranger I have a good idea what AA they have anyway (especially from the Predator tree). I can also tell if they chose INT line but the poison damage.</span></p><p>Finally, do your logs show the actual crit% chance of the ranger(s) you fought? <span style="color: #ff3366;">No, but counting every attack that doesn't crit divided by the total number of attacks = % chance not to crit. Likewise for <i>actual</i> crit rate.</span> Have you fought a wide enough base of rangers in different types of gear, or just a few rangers, well known to you? <span style="color: #ff3366;">I have fought a lot of rangers. Some more than others. I would expect all at some point. Even if they were group'd.</span> What equipment, adornments, bows, and arrows were used in these fights against you? <span style="color: #ff3366;">The ole 9 second delay bows stick out like a sore thumb due to the very high auto-attack damage. Certain bows can be seen e.g. ghostly bow etc.</span> How many times were you hit for a crit and how many times were you not? <span style="color: #ff3366;">I listed these number is my above posts. Before ROK it was very rare to get less than 90% crit rate in the first 10 seconds of a ranger fight. Infact I never saw this against a well equiped ranger.</span> What was the minimum amount of damage, what was the max, what was the average? <span style="color: #ff3366;">Actual logs </span><span style="color: #ff3366;">have been posted throughout the boards of the exact numbers. Instead of counting the actual damage, I would expect to last around 3-4 seconds after the inital hit. 3 Seconds if the ranger is lucky with crits. I rarely died to a ranger, I didn't make a habit of dying just for testing. I tried this on the test server, but the mentality of the rangers was probably worse than on live. They just killed with no thought of actual testing.</span></p><p>Just using your logs as the reason behind you being happy that another class has lost one of its primary abilities is a shaded opinion. <span style="color: #ff3366;">My opinion.. take it or leave it..</span> I'm not stating that you don't have a right to your opinion, but you do need to realize that it is colored by your perspective.  Simply sticking to the facts is hard in any case, for me its doubly hard when as a playing ranger.  Which is why rangers wonder why this ninja change, with no mention in update notes. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I agree, ninja changes are never good. Then again you have to think about this from SoE's point of view. If they stated these changes beforehand, there would have been 30 pages of rangers complaining. This is far more subtle. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Other changes I disliked included the <i>no changing of gear</i> during fights.</span></p><p>As for other classes getting their high CA's nerfed, then how come Ice Nova is still hitting people for so much damage, just to use one example.  And what is it's reuse timer anyway?  <span style="color: #ff3366;">Like someone stated, you can interupt that and they have to stand still.. it's on a ~3min timer? I'm not a wiz but I would expect to be hit by it every fight, especially if they get manashield up.</span></p><p>I simply made a list of what the rangers have had taken away from them, I did not make any complaints in regards to each one, but to the totality of them all. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I disagree all were specifically changed. You made it seem they have crippled your class (and my old class - I played Ranger from release to pvp and for a year in pvp). Rangers are still probably the strongest pvp class. Their <b>potential</b> exceeds all other classes IMO.</span></p><p>Will some rangers continue to have high crit %'s?  Yes, simply because of gear, and a lucky RNG.  Does this mean all rangers?  No. A plain analogy is when you find one broken egg in a dozen, you don't throw the other eleven out.  this is exactly what SOE has done though, in the name of balance. <span style="color: #ff3366;">The fact that these select few getting too powerful is the problem and exactly why diminishing returns were implemented. The fact is, even with these returns, some rangers are/were? too powerful. This was proved in several videos kindly provided by the ranger population.</span></p><p>Since this is SOE's policy towards change, I see no other alternative than to call out when I see an imbalance in another classes abilities (ie. Ice Nova, inspiration, Mana Shield, Thugs, etc.) and ask them to be given the same treatment rangers have enjoyed for the last year.  <span style="color: #ff3366;">Even with this change, IMO rangers are still far more viable in PvP, especially compared to wizards.</span></p><p>After all if you can't beat them (those that have been saying rangers are op, nerf em), join em! <span style="color: #ff3366;">I was a ranger, been there and done that (not recently though). A solution should never be to just join the flavour of the month (or year/century)..</span></p><p>I don't believe Balance can be achieved this way, but what other solutions have players been left with?  <span style="color: #ff3366;">It is far easier to nerf one class than change them all. Simply for teh reason that you endanger further imbalance by changing more variables.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><b>In conclusion:</b> Rangers are still more powerful than assassins (their sister class) and are still (IMO) the strongest PvP class, just brought down a peg. I also welcome anyones and everyones opinion.. (thanks for your constructive reply)..</span></p></blockquote>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p>Did you inspect your logs for at least 1000 battles with ranger? <b><span style="font-size: large;color: #ff3366;">Yes I did..</span></b> Because you cannot judge on any random stuff using logs from just couple of battles, it does not work this way, if you'd graduate technical university you would know this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> <span style="color: #ff3366;">I'm a doctor. Did you finish high school with this reply?</span></p><p>If you want to confirm exact formula for any random process, you need to study a very long set of results (the longer the better). <span style="color: #ff3366;">I know and I do, I have several thousand kills and thousands of fights, lots against a ranger. I can say for certain my numbers above are accurate as far as my log are concerned..</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>I call this crap total BS because there's no way one could have 1000 fights with rangers since Focus Aim nerf was introduced (last week).Stop lying already.</p>

[Grimfort]

<p>Even as a brief reader of this topic, even I know that our pink writing Doctor did not specify that his stats were post ROK, in fact, they are to backup his theory that before this "nerf", rangers were critting well over the stated crit chance by rangers which is why the "nerf" is valid.</p><p>Start reading properly already?</p>

[Elephanton]

<p><cite><span style="font-size: small;">Wow, may be you should start reading properly instead?</span>  </cite></p><p><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>If you call 20% crit "almost every shot", then you can as well say "any other class can crit every shot" because almost all classes can achieve 20% crits with KOS AA and gear. That's top DPS classes only, while other classes can go up to 100% crits easily.</blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p>I personally check every single fight log (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b><span style="font-size: medium;">With this change</span>, I have seen less crits, thank god.<span style="font-size: medium;"> I would say closer to 75%</span></b></span> now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote>

[Elephanton]

This Pink Doctor's post above was exactly why I said he is saying BS because there's no way he could collect sufficient amount of data to analyzie since ROK came out. He is clearly using logs from just a few battles with Rangers, claiming that he has thousand of those.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even as a brief reader of this topic, even I know that our pink writing Doctor did not specify that his stats were post ROK, in fact, they are to backup his theory that before this "nerf", rangers were critting well over the stated crit chance by rangers which is why the "nerf" is valid.</p><p>Start reading properly already?</p></blockquote>This irritates me more than it should <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Why would anyone think that I was critting way over my stated crit chance? My stated crit chance was like 70% or more on CA's and autoattacks. And that's how often I critted during the 15 secs of focus aim. If anyone believes otherwise he should put up the numbers or keep quiet. <b>'This'</b> nerf wasn't "valid". <b>'A'</b>  nerf was. I expected one. But this? They took away dps mod and ranged skill + crit % for both CA's and autoattacks. That is too much!! A normal balancing would modify the buff, not remove it completely.As an aside, I'm sorry to say that anything Siphar writes is more likely to be wrong than right. Especially when he uses the words cold, hard facts. Then you can be sure that he presented none of it.

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>This Pink Doctor's post above was exactly why I said he is saying BS because there's no way he could collect sufficient amount of data to analyzie since ROK came out. He is clearly using logs from just a few battles with Rangers, claiming that he has thousand of those.</blockquote><p>/shrug.. I only have a few logs of rangers with ROK... par one or two specific references.. all my statements were made about Pre-ROK.</p><p>My logs were of all my fights, a significant proportion of which were against Rangers. It was misunderstood or taken out of context that I had litterally 1000+ logs of ranger fights.</p><p>How many tests does it require to understand a trend? Sure 1000+ would be nice but unnecessary to identify a trend.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite><span style="font-size: small;">Wow, may be you should start reading properly instead?</span>  </cite></p><p><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even without focus aim, rangers still crit <i>almost</i> every shot.</p></blockquote>If you call 20% crit "almost every shot", then you can as well say "any other class can crit every shot" because almost all classes can achieve 20% crits with KOS AA and gear. That's top DPS classes only, while other classes can go up to 100% crits easily.</blockquote><p>You <b><u>obviously</u></b> have never inspected a damage log after a fight with a ranger.. (or your log as a ranger etc whatever).</p><p>I personally check every single fight log (when possible in a quiet moment) to see what went right and what went wrong.</p><p>I can say before this change, 90-95% of bow attacks from a ranger were crit (especially for the first ~10 seconds i.e. while focus aim was up)</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b><span style="font-size: medium;">With this change</span>, I have seen less crits, thank god.<span style="font-size: medium;"> I would say closer to 75%</span></b></span> now which is a significant drop in spike DPS as a crit is between "max damage+1 and max damage +30%"..</p><p>Regardless of what your buffs say, these are the cold hard facts.</p></blockquote></blockquote>Aye, I never stated I had 1000's of fights against Rangers post-ROK. All the Ranger fights I have had since ROK seem to follow the above statistics in my logs. I'll start copying teh logs and maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I really didn't take this game that seriously to do it before..

[Siphar]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even as a brief reader of this topic, even I know that our pink writing Doctor did not specify that his stats were post ROK, in fact, they are to backup his theory that before this "nerf", rangers were critting well over the stated crit chance by rangers which is why the "nerf" is valid.</p><p>Start reading properly already?</p></blockquote>This irritates me more than it should <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Why would anyone think that I was critting way over my stated crit chance? My stated crit chance was like 70% or more on CA's and autoattacks. And that's how often I critted during the 15 secs of focus aim. If anyone believes otherwise he should put up the numbers or keep quiet.<b>'This'</b> nerf wasn't "valid". <b>'A'</b>  nerf was. I expected one. But this? They took away dps mod and ranged skill + crit % for both CA's and autoattacks. That is too much!! A normal balancing would modify the buff, not remove it completely.As an aside, I'm sorry to say that anything Siphar writes is more likely to be wrong than right. Especially when he uses the words cold, hard facts. Then you can be sure that he presented none of it.</blockquote><p>As a side note, thanks for your opinion, you seem to have enjoyed mine. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even as a brief reader of this topic, even I know that our pink writing Doctor did not specify that his stats were post ROK, in fact, they are to backup his theory that before this "nerf", rangers were critting well over the stated crit chance by rangers which is why the "nerf" is valid.</p><p>Start reading properly already?</p></blockquote>This irritates me more than it should <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Why would anyone think that I was critting way over my stated crit chance? My stated crit chance was like 70% or more on CA's and autoattacks. And that's how often I critted during the 15 secs of focus aim. If anyone believes otherwise he should put up the numbers or keep quiet.<b>'This'</b> nerf wasn't "valid". <b>'A'</b>  nerf was. I expected one. But this? They took away dps mod and ranged skill + crit % for both CA's and autoattacks. That is too much!! A normal balancing would modify the buff, not remove it completely.As an aside, I'm sorry to say that anything Siphar writes is more likely to be wrong than right. Especially when he uses the words cold, hard facts. Then you can be sure that he presented none of it.</blockquote><p>That's your opinion. The developers who program this game thought differently, who have finally acted.</p><p>You even admit you needed a nerf...and "expected one"... enough said if you ask me..</p><p>I leave my trust in the developers... even if they take their sweet time sometimes..</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Even as a brief reader of this topic, even I know that our pink writing Doctor did not specify that his stats were post ROK, in fact, they are to backup his theory that before this "nerf", rangers were critting well over the stated crit chance by rangers which is why the "nerf" is valid.</p><p>Start reading properly already?</p></blockquote>I thought pink might show up and be a little different. It doesn't reflect my personality mind you. At least it's not green hey <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Grimfort]

<p>Heh, I only posted to add wood to the fire. This is an exciting dicussion as for once, it's not me moaning about OP rangers!</p><p>Now, wheres that blue pen....</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aye, I never stated I had 1000's of fights against Rangers post-ROK.</blockquote><p>Here you go.So you agree that when claiming "75% crit rate after change", you were basically doing same thing as with my dice example - approximating very small set of statistical data into the actual formula? Hmmm I wonder how you've got your Doctor degree with this level of mathematical statistics knowledge tbh.</p><p>Only when you gather sufficient amount of statistical data, you will be able to reconstruct the actual distribution for this random process, and then you will see that current crit rate for rangers is actually not more than 25%. Which is the statement you started arguing with me 2 pages earlier.</p><p>Nowhere even close to 75% as you were claiming.Even without collecting any statistical data this does not make any sense - how come my UI shows that I only have about 25% crit rate (KOS AA and couple of +crit things), which is exactly the number used by game meachnics, and then you come here and say my critz rate is actually about 75% lol.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aye, I never stated I had 1000's of fights against Rangers post-ROK.</blockquote><p>Here you go.So you agree that when claiming "75% crit rate after change", you were basically doing same thing as with my dice example - approximating very small set of statistical data into the actual formula? I haven't got that many logs of Rangers after ROK was released, I said that. I said they were about 75%.. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I was never making a sing and dance about rangers after ROK, just that I saw a lower rate of crits when I checked a few logs.. nothing was written in stone.. or published.. </span>Hmmm I wonder how you've got your Doctor degree with this level of mathematical statistics knowledge tbh. <span style="color: #ff3366;">My RL has nothign to do with this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>Only when you gather sufficient amount of statistical data, you will be able to reconstruct the actual distribution for this random process, and then you will see that current crit rate for rangers is actually not more than 25%. Which is the statement you started arguing with me 2 pages earlier.<span style="color: #ff3366;"> Believe it or not but your UI doesn't necessarily take all the factors into consideration. I will make a blanket statement and that is the developers sure <i>do not</i> use your UI when they are<i> testing</i> the game.</span></p><p>Nowhere even close to 75% as you were claiming. <span style="color: #ff3366;">Are you sure? Did you check your logs? My logs show around 75% crit rate.. i'll grab some and post them when I fight some more rangers.. I'll even log on a Q (if they aren't exile) to ask about gear..</span>Even without collecting any statistical data this does not make any sense - how come my UI shows that I only have about 25% crit rate (KOS AA and couple of +crit things), which is exactly the number used by game meachnics, and then you come here and say my critz rate is actually about 75% lol. <span style="color: #ff3366;">See above point about believing blindly what your UI says. Try reading a few logs... of <i>actual</i> data.. </span></p></blockquote>

[Tatate]

I can't believe anyone is [Removed for Content] about focus aim not being usable. I mean, Rangers still have what...about 3 other short duration buffs that increase DPS/Haste/Ranged? It wasn't that big of a blow really. I will admit it is entertaining for me that now that you've lost something (Which doesn't like make it impossible for you to kill anyone now) now you're calling for EVERYONE ELSE TO GET SOMETHING TAKEN AWAY. Yeah...

[Darkor]

The Change was a real good thing, now Rangers arent the top beasts anymore. It was about time. I was allready annoyed being killed by a ranger in less than 3 seconds dying with FULL power. There was nothing i could do.

[yellowbelly08]

<p>The above posting furies tirade against my class has contributed to this debacle. I didnt think I would hate a player from this game irl..but.</p><p>Now some fools are saying that rangers are still critting an awful lot after the change..er nope. With heartstinger in 3 studied fights i didnt crit EVEN ONCE, and of course didnt double attack either EVEN ONCE. The damage with said bow was no lie most commonly in the 100-300 range even with ferrite arrows. Absurd. So I switched for bylze <formerly not thought viable after nerf> and damage went up slightly and i even had the odd 900 hit, but of course still the odd 120 shot. BUT STILL NO CRITS OR DOUBLE ATTACKS. Crit gear later on and double attack gear lter on may improve things as the pvp bow will also do clearly. But i looted two such items yesterday and ya cool they give us 2 ranged crit, BUT neither has str which kinda negates them somewhat... As for lower tier rangers with no chance of pvp bows i guess your the worst affected, esp with unbeatable furies running around at your tiers /wave previous poster.</p><p>An example of a fight yesterday for you...I engage a 70 fury, im 72 pop on mental breach, kite him so he doesnt get a hit in for 4 minutes, expecting easy win..BUT NO...he easily heals thru with my burst gone,, mental breach not draining in that 4 mins...and his friend then shows up. Hunter title inc..</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Siphar]

<p>Some info on the proc rates. I believe you can also do a /stats to get your weapon stats.</p><p>> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=201224" target="_blank">here</a></p><p>2nd post down.. I assume :S the same theory is applied today.. well.. </p>

[Siphar]

<cite>yellowbelly08 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The above posting furies tirade against my class has contributed to this debacle. I didnt think I would hate a player from this game irl..but.</p><p>Now some fools are saying that rangers are still critting an awful lot after the change..er nope. With heartstinger in 3 studied fights i didnt crit EVEN ONCE, and of course didnt double attack either EVEN ONCE. The damage with said bow was no lie most commonly in the 100-300 range even with ferrite arrows. Absurd. So I switched for bylze <formerly not thought viable after nerf> and damage went up slightly and i even had the odd 900 hit, but of course still the odd 120 shot. BUT STILL NO CRITS OR DOUBLE ATTACKS. Crit gear later on and double attack gear lter on may improve things as the pvp bow will also do clearly. But i looted two such items yesterday and ya cool they give us 2 ranged crit, BUT neither has str which kinda negates them somewhat... As for lower tier rangers with no chance of pvp bows i guess your the worst affected, esp with unbeatable furies running around at your tiers /wave previous poster.</p><p>An example of a fight yesterday for you...I engage a 70 fury, im 72 pop on mental breach, kite him so he doesnt get a hit in for 4 minutes, expecting easy win..BUT NO...he easily heals thru with my burst gone,, mental breach not draining in that 4 mins...and his friend then shows up. Hunter title inc..</p><p>Galoro</p></blockquote>I'd love a log of a non-crit fight with your other 2 buffs up Galoro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Seriously.. I would... please ???

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p>Only when you gather sufficient amount of statistical data, you will be able to reconstruct the actual distribution for this random process, and then you will see that current crit rate for rangers is actually not more than 25%. Which is the statement you started arguing with me 2 pages earlier.<span style="color: #ff3366;"> Believe it or not but your UI doesn't necessarily take all the factors into consideration. I will make a blanket statement and that is the developers sure <i>do not</i> use your UI when they are<i> testing</i> the game.</span><span style="color: #ffff00;">Sure they don't use <i>my UI</i>, they use internal variable instead. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />This variable is also open for any UI to display it (if you ever wrote UI mods for EQ2, you know what I am talking about - counters). Thus, any UI will essentially be displaying that same piece of memory used by RNG in combat to determine whether particular shot is a critical shot.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Some info on the proc rates. I believe you can also do a /stats to get your weapon stats.</p><p>> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=201224" target="_blank">here</a></p><p>2nd post down.. I assume :S the same theory is applied today.. well.. </p></blockquote><p>I went to your link, and all I can say is that info is 2 years and multiple nerfs past.</p><p>Our Archers Frenzy now only has an 8% chance to proc. And it received a pvp equivelant damage reduction.</p><p>Our procs on multi-shot CA's were 'fixed' to only apply the proc chance 1 time on a successful hit.</p><p>Our melee weapons no longer proc on ranged, unless specifically designed (by SOE) to do so.</p><p>I didn't read thru all 29 pages.  I do believe it was started in reference to PvE assassin DPS though.  Ranger DPS was brought up as a reflection to show perceived weaknesses in Assassin DPS.</p><p>And one thing I need to point out.  Rangers have only two ranged CA's that can be cast on the move.  One requires position to be successful, the other requires stealth.  ALL our other ranged CA's require us to stand still.</p><p>Our too few melee attacks can be cast while moving to a certain extent, but  a couple also require position or stealth, or both, not to mention being in melee range.</p><p>Our ranged autoattack isn't affected by movement, but it is certainly affected by our bow's ratings, most specifically by its delay and damage range of course.  Oh, and not being in melee range.</p>

[Magius789]

<p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Anyone who has been following this discussion could easily realize that the only people posting that this is a good change are the same people who have in days past created thread after thread after thread with crazy untrue facts about rangers and our abilities.  People such as Ajjantis, Taear, and Siphar have many posts before this one for them calling to nerf the ranger class because boohoo "I can't figure out how to beat them" even though it seems no one else seems to have this much trouble.  All this change tells me is that it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth or not, SOE will change anything if you whine about it for long enough.  And people need to stop referring to this as a nerf, it wasn't the CA in question has been COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM PVP COMBAT.  So no it is not a nerf.</p><p>On a side note I just got done seeing Beowolf on the IMAX<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />igital 3D and it was pretty dang cool.  I would recommend anyone who was iffy about it to go see it.  Not only is the 3D aspect very cool but it is also a pretty good movie as well!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Anyone who has been following this discussion could easily realize that the only people posting that this is a good change are the same people who have in days past created thread after thread after thread with crazy untrue facts about rangers and our abilities.  People such as Ajjantis, Taear, and Siphar have many posts before this one for them calling to nerf the ranger class because boohoo "I can't figure out how to beat them" even though it seems no one else seems to have this much trouble.  All this change tells me is that it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth or not, SOE will change anything if you whine about it for long enough.  And people need to stop referring to this as a nerf, it wasn't the CA in question has been COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM PVP COMBAT.  So no it is not a nerf.</p><p>On a side note I just got done seeing Beowolf on the IMAX<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />igital 3D and it was pretty dang cool.  I would recommend anyone who was iffy about it to go see it.  Not only is the 3D aspect very cool but it is also a pretty good movie as well!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ive said it plenty times, a ranger should NEVER be able to kill any class in a second. Watch Jamilias last video where he instantly kills a lvl 70 destroyer wizard with just 1 auto attack wich double attacks thus dealing 3.9k dmg from just auto attacks not counting quickshots+poison procs.</p><p>Valentino once killed me in a second. Dealing 7k dmg giving me not even a chance to cast my INSTANT emergency heals which have no cast time, cost no power and can be cast on the run. Whats the point if a class can kill me that fast and i cant even use a single point of my power to prevent it. </p><p>I didnt get a full pvp set gear to get my butt handed by rangers who cast 1 buff and smash 2 buttons on their keyboard.</p><p>And on top of it you didnt not have to work and gear up to be that superior. You just pick Focus aim at lvl 64 as your mastery and get your lvl 59 treasured bylze bow. While i had to pvp day in and day out and farm tokens to gear up you can stand there with these 2 free given things and totally destroy the game.</p><p>I havent fought rangers for ages, as its still impossible to kill them with their godly runspeed but now you might have to WORK for your kills again instead giving them out to you for free.</p><p>I salute you sony, these changes were totally due.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>Rangers were not unbeatable. They WERE overpowered though. Everyone knew it, even the rangers themselves, as per the earlier post of "I expected it" from a ranger.</p><p>Something had to be done and this is how the devs chose to do it. If one buff makes the difference from you being obscenely overpowered (and you were) going to being completely without any hope of ever getting a kill, then can I just suggest that you reroll? I hear Swashbucklers are still tough as old boots.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Anyone who has been following this discussion could easily realize that the only people posting that this is a good change are the same people who have in days past created thread after thread after thread with crazy untrue facts about rangers and our abilities.  People such as Ajjantis, Taear, and Siphar have many posts before this one for them calling to nerf the ranger class because boohoo "I can't figure out how to beat them" even though it seems no one else seems to have this much trouble.  All this change tells me is that it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth or not, SOE will change anything if you whine about it for long enough.  And people need to stop referring to this as a nerf, it wasn't the CA in question has been COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM PVP COMBAT.  So no it is not a nerf.</p><p>On a side note I just got done seeing Beowolf on the IMAX<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" />igital 3D and it was pretty dang cool.  I would recommend anyone who was iffy about it to go see it.  Not only is the 3D aspect very cool but it is also a pretty good movie as well!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ive said it plenty times, a ranger should NEVER be able to kill any class in a second. Watch Jamilias last video where he instantly kills a lvl 70 destroyer wizard with just 1 auto attack wich double attacks thus dealing 3.9k dmg from just auto attacks not counting quickshots+poison procs.</p><p>Valentino once killed me in a second. Dealing 7k dmg giving me not even a chance to cast my INSTANT emergency heals which have no cast time, cost no power and can be cast on the run. Whats the point if a class can kill me that fast and i cant even use a single point of my power to prevent it. </p><p>I didnt get a full pvp set gear to get my butt handed by rangers who cast 1 buff and smash 2 buttons on their keyboard. </p><p>And on top of it you didnt not have to work and gear up to be that superior. You just pick Focus aim at lvl 64 as your mastery and get your lvl 59 treasured bylze bow. While i had to pvp day in and day out and farm tokens to gear up you can stand there with these 2 free given things and totally destroy the game.</p><p>I havent fought rangers for ages, as its still impossible to kill them with their godly runspeed but now you might have to WORK for your kills again instead giving them out to you for free.</p><p>I salute you sony, these changes were totally due.</p></blockquote>First off I see you have a full PvP set, So Zerging pays off pretty fast, but that is a total different thing.Your Instant emergancy after someone who knew what they were doing you fail to account for human reaction time at all. You could be standing there picking your nose and all of a sudden it, You have to pull your finger out of your nose and hit that instant button, Therefore making an Insta heal really not instant at all, plus you should have heals up as soon as you see a ranger. 2nd, Is a fury complaining about runspeed????? I Rofl'ed IRL about this one.Yes, Rangers may have needed toned down a small bit in PvP, BUT to completely remove an ability that is given to a class is just plain stupid. Ajjantis you lack of knowledge about the ranger class is astounding TBH. You play a brigand do you not? Do you think its fair that I can be stunned through a whole fight not even able to pop an emergancy (INSTA...LOL). Seriously man, Learn something about the classes you crusade against.There are so many ignorant people that will say stupid things anymore. I have been told that Mystics were OP...That made me laugh so hard!

[Mildavyn]

You do realise there are potions to cure/prevent just about everything right? You can get 1 minute and 10 seconds worth of stun immunity just from gear.

[Darkor]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Anyone who has been following this discussion could easily realize that the only people posting that this is a good change are the same people who have in days past created thread after thread after thread with crazy untrue facts about rangers and our abilities.  People such as Ajjantis, Taear, and Siphar have many posts before this one for them calling to nerf the ranger class because boohoo "I can't figure out how to beat them" even though it seems no one else seems to have this much trouble.  All this change tells me is that it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth or not, SOE will change anything if you whine about it for long enough.  And people need to stop referring to this as a nerf, it wasn't the CA in question has been COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM PVP COMBAT.  So no it is not a nerf.</p><p>On a side note I just got done seeing Beowolf on the IMAX<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" />igital 3D and it was pretty dang cool.  I would recommend anyone who was iffy about it to go see it.  Not only is the 3D aspect very cool but it is also a pretty good movie as well!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ive said it plenty times, a ranger should NEVER be able to kill any class in a second. Watch Jamilias last video where he instantly kills a lvl 70 destroyer wizard with just 1 auto attack wich double attacks thus dealing 3.9k dmg from just auto attacks not counting quickshots+poison procs.</p><p>Valentino once killed me in a second. Dealing 7k dmg giving me not even a chance to cast my INSTANT emergency heals which have no cast time, cost no power and can be cast on the run. Whats the point if a class can kill me that fast and i cant even use a single point of my power to prevent it. </p><p>I didnt get a full pvp set gear to get my butt handed by rangers who cast 1 buff and smash 2 buttons on their keyboard. </p><p>And on top of it you didnt not have to work and gear up to be that superior. You just pick Focus aim at lvl 64 as your mastery and get your lvl 59 treasured bylze bow. While i had to pvp day in and day out and farm tokens to gear up you can stand there with these 2 free given things and totally destroy the game.</p><p>I havent fought rangers for ages, as its still impossible to kill them with their godly runspeed but now you might have to WORK for your kills again instead giving them out to you for free.</p><p>I salute you sony, these changes were totally due.</p></blockquote>First off I see you have a full PvP set, So Zerging pays off pretty fast, but that is a total different thing.Your Instant emergancy after someone who knew what they were doing you fail to account for human reaction time at all. You could be standing there picking your nose and all of a sudden it, You have to pull your finger out of your nose and hit that instant button, Therefore making an Insta heal really not instant at all, plus you should have heals up as soon as you see a ranger. 2nd, Is a fury complaining about runspeed????? I Rofl'ed IRL about this one.Yes, Rangers may have needed toned down a small bit in PvP, BUT to completely remove an ability that is given to a class is just plain stupid. Ajjantis you lack of knowledge about the ranger class is astounding TBH. You play a brigand do you not? Do you think its fair that I can be stunned through a whole fight not even able to pop an emergancy (INSTA...LOL). Seriously man, Learn something about the classes you crusade against.There are so many ignorant people that will say stupid things anymore. I have been told that Mystics were OP...That made me laugh so hard!</blockquote><p>Doesnt zerg include me dying, then respawning and dying over and over again? </p><p>4000 kills and less than 500 deaths. I must be the WORST Zerger on earth.</p><p>You on other side should check your PvE deaths, must feel good jumping from the edges in kingdom of sky as soon as you see us hahaha. I would feel ashamed if i was you.</p><p>I played a swashbuckler to 70, together with my friend who played a ranger to 70. We grouped EVERYDAY together, leveled together and did all the quests together AND we pvp'ed together. Day in day out. He totally destroyed a lvl 70 champion brigand at 62 or 64 before i could even get a hit off. I pretty much know everything about the classes, not only from grouping with him but having also a ranger. Since i got my General on my swashy (thats all i wanted) i betrayed him to a brigand. I dislike Qeynos, i dislike the people with a few exceptions. Qeynos does have some great people and good pvper (like Keffin, Ackron) but the majority is a bunch of Evacers, Cliffjumpers, Immunityexploiters and WoW abandons.</p><p>My fury has a runspeed of 55 %. 35 % from my aa-line and 20 % from my SoW. I cant be bothered to loose important pvp aas to get an additional 10 %. Im also not a Fae and i surely wont use Jboots. So i run arround with 55 % trying to catch people who run at 70% +</p><p>Mystics arent OP, you just got your titles from all the duells on bbm docks where you could pre-ward. Out in the wild you are dead and thats why you keep suiciding. You should do it like Brokin. Get that item which drains 5 % of your health whenever you click it and as soon as you see people you can suicide in 2 seconds or just run arround at 20 % health so you dont have to worry about your precious fame. One more reason to leave Qeynos, i dont want to be on the same team like him. Exploiters.</p>

[Psych]

I will say 1 thing...its completely not true that if you "complain about something enough soe will cange it" because coercers are still the least played class overall and its still for the same reasons that are literally every 3rd post on the coercer forum [Removed for Content] near since relaese...so yeah...complain all you want...thats not what they use to decide who gets nerfed/not nerfed...Oh, and nerf doesnt apply to abilities only...if a class loses an ability you would say that class got nerfed.This is the way the term has been used for years upon years upon years. It doesnt matter if a ranger had an ability removed that is still a nerf just to the ranger not to the ability. Also, nerfing isnt always bad. If something overpowered is nerfed that is just balancing but its called nerfing because its a downwards balance. Decreasing a skill, ability, class etc is nerfing it. Increasing isnt. A nerf bat is involved when something is nerfed repeatedly.Also, so far on the pvp server most of what has chased me is rangers...if they werent atleast a little good I would expect to see fewer of them. Not saying they are imba just saying that so far my life outside neriak has mostly been threatened by rangers and the occasional priest. If you wanna know the BEST pvp class just do the numbers. Players arent stupid. Coercer=least played for a reason. Whatever is MOST played class well there is a reason for that too and yes its the most obvious one.

[Omgidomms]

Balance Necromancers (and conjurers?)!It is way to easy for way to many classes to gank necro's like they were 10 levels lower.PS: This is end-game necro's btw, low level necro's pwn <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Notsovilepriest]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Anyone who has been following this discussion could easily realize that the only people posting that this is a good change are the same people who have in days past created thread after thread after thread with crazy untrue facts about rangers and our abilities.  People such as Ajjantis, Taear, and Siphar have many posts before this one for them calling to nerf the ranger class because boohoo "I can't figure out how to beat them" even though it seems no one else seems to have this much trouble.  All this change tells me is that it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth or not, SOE will change anything if you whine about it for long enough.  And people need to stop referring to this as a nerf, it wasn't the CA in question has been COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM PVP COMBAT.  So no it is not a nerf.</p><p>On a side note I just got done seeing Beowolf on the IMAX<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" />igital 3D and it was pretty dang cool.  I would recommend anyone who was iffy about it to go see it.  Not only is the 3D aspect very cool but it is also a pretty good movie as well!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ive said it plenty times, a ranger should NEVER be able to kill any class in a second. Watch Jamilias last video where he instantly kills a lvl 70 destroyer wizard with just 1 auto attack wich double attacks thus dealing 3.9k dmg from just auto attacks not counting quickshots+poison procs.</p><p>Valentino once killed me in a second. Dealing 7k dmg giving me not even a chance to cast my INSTANT emergency heals which have no cast time, cost no power and can be cast on the run. Whats the point if a class can kill me that fast and i cant even use a single point of my power to prevent it. </p><p>I didnt get a full pvp set gear to get my butt handed by rangers who cast 1 buff and smash 2 buttons on their keyboard. </p><p>And on top of it you didnt not have to work and gear up to be that superior. You just pick Focus aim at lvl 64 as your mastery and get your lvl 59 treasured bylze bow. While i had to pvp day in and day out and farm tokens to gear up you can stand there with these 2 free given things and totally destroy the game.</p><p>I havent fought rangers for ages, as its still impossible to kill them with their godly runspeed but now you might have to WORK for your kills again instead giving them out to you for free.</p><p>I salute you sony, these changes were totally due.</p></blockquote>First off I see you have a full PvP set, So Zerging pays off pretty fast, but that is a total different thing.Your Instant emergancy after someone who knew what they were doing you fail to account for human reaction time at all. You could be standing there picking your nose and all of a sudden it, You have to pull your finger out of your nose and hit that instant button, Therefore making an Insta heal really not instant at all, plus you should have heals up as soon as you see a ranger. 2nd, Is a fury complaining about runspeed????? I Rofl'ed IRL about this one.Yes, Rangers may have needed toned down a small bit in PvP, BUT to completely remove an ability that is given to a class is just plain stupid. Ajjantis you lack of knowledge about the ranger class is astounding TBH. You play a brigand do you not? Do you think its fair that I can be stunned through a whole fight not even able to pop an emergancy (INSTA...LOL). Seriously man, Learn something about the classes you crusade against.There are so many ignorant people that will say stupid things anymore. I have been told that Mystics were OP...That made me laugh so hard!</blockquote><p>Doesnt zerg include me dying, then respawning and dying over and over again? </p><p>4000 kills and less than 500 deaths. I must be the WORST Zerger on earth.</p><p>You on other side should check your PvE deaths, must feel good jumping from the edges in kingdom of sky as soon as you see us hahaha. I would feel ashamed if i was you.</p><p>I played a swashbuckler to 70, together with my friend who played a ranger to 70. We grouped EVERYDAY together, leveled together and did all the quests together AND we pvp'ed together. Day in day out. He totally destroyed a lvl 70 champion brigand at 62 or 64 before i could even get a hit off. I pretty much know everything about the classes, not only from grouping with him but having also a ranger. Since i got my General on my swashy (thats all i wanted) i betrayed him to a brigand. I dislike Qeynos, i dislike the people with a few exceptions. Qeynos does have some great people and good pvper (like Keffin, Ackron) but the majority is a bunch of Evacers, Cliffjumpers, Immunityexploiters and WoW abandons.</p><p>My fury has a runspeed of 55 %. 35 % from my aa-line and 20 % from my SoW. I cant be bothered to loose important pvp aas to get an additional 10 %. Im also not a Fae and i surely wont use Jboots. So i run arround with 55 % trying to catch people who run at 70% +</p><p>Mystics arent OP, you just got your titles from all the duells on bbm docks where you could pre-ward. Out in the wild you are dead and thats why you keep suiciding. You should do it like Brokin. Get that item which drains 5 % of your health whenever you click it and as soon as you see people you can suicide in 2 seconds or just run arround at 20 % health so you dont have to worry about your precious fame. One more reason to leave Qeynos, i dont want to be on the same team like him. Exploiters.</p></blockquote>Hmm, With your run speed use all resources available to you even w/o having jboots on you can hit 70% run speed. Deaths stop counting after the 1st death half the time too, so Yeah you can zerg w/o having a crap load of deaths. I know you zerged my group in 1 day 6 times. So I wouldn't pretend you don't zerg, I will see if ackron has the fraps for it. Also is a freep w/ Coercer on their side complaining about Immunity Exploiters? ROFL!. I wish I had evac, and I will admit to cliff diving from full groups yes. But FYI, Most of the time I jumped off a cliff, I hit something else w/ a parachute like a chain or another island.Paikis, I do know there is stun immunity , I was just saying that if that were to be down or I ran out of signets when I was out, should a class be able to lock me up for the whole fight till Im dead.

[Tatate]

<p>This is ridiculous, you went from obscenely overpowered down to where you should be, you STILL HAVE 3 OTHER BUFFS FFS. If you can't kill people now, it just shows how lazy Rangers have gotten.</p>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Sorzo@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is ridiculous, you went from obscenely overpowered down to where you should be, you STILL HAVE 3 OTHER BUFFS FFS.</p></blockquote><p>We have:</p><p>Cloak of the forrest - Permanent: Agi and haste.Honed reflexes - 5 minute reuse timer: hasteBrutal instinct - 5 minute timer: dps mod</p><p>What has been taken out (completely) is +ranged and +crit% once a minute for 15 seconds. Those affetcs both CAs and autoattack. With the 3 spells that remain to us we can buff autoattack only, not CAs, once every 5 minutes and to a much lesser extent than before. It is a huge nerf and rangers are right to be [Removed for Content].</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>Paikis, I do know there is stun immunity , I was just saying that if that were to be down or I ran out of signets when I was out, should a class be able to lock me up for the whole fight till Im dead.</blockquote>Every brigand stun gives at least 4 seconds of stun immunity. I realise for a mystic that's longer than a spell but for every other class it's not. It isn't overpowered that I can lock you down because of the length of your spells, it's just part and parcel of being a mystic.

[Tatate]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sorzo@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is ridiculous, you went from obscenely overpowered down to where you should be, you STILL HAVE 3 OTHER BUFFS FFS.</p></blockquote><p>We have:</p><p>Cloak of the forrest - Permanent: Agi and haste.Honed reflexes - 5 minute reuse timer: hasteBrutal instinct - 5 minute timer: dps mod</p><p>What has been taken out (completely) is +ranged and +crit% once a minute for 15 seconds. Those affetcs both CAs and autoattack. With the 3 spells that remain to us we can buff autoattack only, not CAs, once every 5 minutes and to a much lesser extent than before. It is a huge nerf and rangers are right to be [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote>To be quite honest, you really don't need that massive buff for your CAs. They are powerful enough as they are.

[Krakelkr]

<p>I don't think you know what you're talking about tbh. Our CA's are few compared to other damage classes, I imagine, since seven of them are melee arts. If those seven would have been available at range then fine (or if they were better). As it is now I have a long wait for arts to recycle if I can't go into melee.</p>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aye, I never stated I had 1000's of fights against Rangers post-ROK.</blockquote><p>Here you go.So you agree that when claiming "75% crit rate after change", you were basically doing same thing as with my dice example - approximating very small set of statistical data into the actual formula? I haven't got that many logs of Rangers after ROK was released, I said that. I said they were about 75%.. <span style="color: #ff3366;">I was never making a sing and dance about rangers after ROK, just that I saw a lower rate of crits when I checked a few logs.. nothing was written in stone.. or published.. </span>Hmmm I wonder how you've got your Doctor degree with this level of mathematical statistics knowledge tbh. <span style="color: #ff3366;">My RL has nothign to do with this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> </span></p></blockquote></blockquote>LOL i was just gonna sit by and read. But man this [Removed for Content] is toooooooooooooo funny. You stated in this same thread that instead of 90% crit WITH the buff, its now 70% WITHOUT the buff. But then in this quote comment about how you didn't make any comments based on anything but the fact you see a lower rate of crits when you check a FEW logs (also after stating you have had thousands of pvp fights and many of them with rangers (being on how this whole thing is brought up about your brash statements about crit rate AFTER the nerf, how come you think that we would be wanting to know about your logs PRENERF.) LOL nothing was written in stone.. or published.. ! YOU PUBLISHED IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM. Rofl everything that comes out of your mouth (or fingers lawl?) on a public forum is SET IN STONE. And no, your RL has nothing to do with this, so why did you bring up the fact your a doctor? Think that your inductive reasoning is gonna be so much higher and your credibility so much better now that we know you career choice? LOL man oh man. You sure as hell sound completely [Removed for Content] for a doctor. Hope i never have to be treated for anything by you.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Paikis, I do know there is stun immunity , I was just saying that if that were to be down or I ran out of signets when I was out, should a class be able to lock me up for the whole fight till Im dead.</blockquote><p>You do know that Brigs can only stun you once right? What they use after that is nto a stun, it simply stops you from being able to turn around (I think there's a root in there somewhere too)</p><p>As soon as the stun wears off, wait for him to use the you-can't-turn-around-thingy (technical term) and use your insta-cast mez. Drops his target and last long enough to be able to move again. While he's mezzed you can be casting another ward as well.</p><p>Think outside the square!</p>

[Tatate]

I think the point of this and the other thread is just ridiculous. If Rangers relied on one temporary ability to get kills in PvP, then there's a big problem.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Sorzo@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the point of this and the other thread is just ridiculous. If Rangers relied on one temporary ability to get kills in PvP, then there's a big problem.</blockquote>QFE. You're all making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Have you seen the bows in RoK? Can you imagine those with 70%+ crits AND doubleattack!?

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sorzo@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the point of this and the other thread is just ridiculous. If Rangers relied on one temporary ability to get kills in PvP, then there's a big problem.</blockquote>QFE. You're all making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Have you seen the bows in RoK? Can you imagine those with 70%+ crits AND doubleattack!?</blockquote>Just so you know how much we lost (<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=353709" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ref</a> for calculating crit bonus; the numbers won't be 100% correct cause of arrow mechanics):autoattack damage gain with 25% crit and bylze = 22%autoattack damage gain with 70% crit and bylze = 61%That's not factoring in the loss of haste (focus aim c. 90 vs. honed reflexes c. 37) and the subsequent loss of procs because of it. And the loss of ranged skill.CA damage goes from a 20% gain to a 7% gain (with 70% vs. 25% crits, respectively) not factoring in the loss of ranged skill.Mountain or mole-hill?

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote>autoattack damage gain with 25% crit and bylze = 22%autoattack damage gain with 70% crit and bylze = 61%That's not factoring in the loss of haste (focus aim c. 90 vs. honed reflexes c. 37) and the subsequent loss of procs because of it. And the loss of ranged skill.CA damage goes from a 20% gain to a 7% gain (with 70% vs. 25% crits, respectively) not factoring in the loss of ranged skill.Mountain or mole-hill?</blockquote><p>Auto-attack reduction = 25% (39/161)CA reduction = 10% (13/120)</p><p>Assuming Auto-attack damage is 50% of your total damage you will see an overall decrease in DPS of 17.25%.</p><p>Assuming all your numbers are correct (I'm not checking at this time of night) you will go from killing people in 5 seconds (general number based on personal experience) to it taking a massive 6 seconds! Yep, you rangers have really got it hard.</p>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote>autoattack damage gain with 25% crit and bylze = 22%autoattack damage gain with 70% crit and bylze = 61%That's not factoring in the loss of haste (focus aim c. 90 vs. honed reflexes c. 37) and the subsequent loss of procs because of it. And the loss of ranged skill.CA damage goes from a 20% gain to a 7% gain (with 70% vs. 25% crits, respectively) not factoring in the loss of ranged skill.Mountain or mole-hill?</blockquote><p>Auto-attack reduction = 25% (39/161)CA reduction = 10% (13/120)</p><p>Assuming Auto-attack damage is 50% of your total damage you will see an overall decrease in DPS of 17.25%.</p> </blockquote>Ignoring loss of haste, procs and hit%. And ignoring the 1 vs. 5 minute timers. And ignoring no more buffing in stealth.

[The_Real_Ohno]

<p>I think alot of you guys are missin the big picture here.  SoE totaly disabled one of our main buffs in PvP.  I think we all can agree yes this one buff was really strong, but to totaly disable it was an easy way out imo.  All Rangers can agree that this did need to be toned down, but not disabled.</p><p>Pls rethink this SoE, u could of at least scaled it by however much.</p>

[toenukl]

After a few 1vs1's in KP last night, I will say that at least a few rangers have adapted, General titles in tact. And while standing in immunity saw the same ranger take two other people down with ease. Then, after I was off his recent, he came back and killed me while turning in a quest before I could get the chat windows and quest window out of the way(ACT showed 3.8secs). That time was my fault for not watching my surroundings heh.It sucks your ability was removed, I agree it should have been simply toned down, but you are still the top PvP class... do we really need a 10 page thread?

[Radigazt]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With ROK, Rangers lost their primary combat buff in PVP, Focus Aim.  Devs decided with no warning or notice to make this unusable for PvP combat.  In order to address this new imbalance, all other classes should also lose there similar abilities.</p><p>No more inspiritaion for Swashies.</p><p>No more thugs for Brigands.</p><p>ETC., etc,. etc.</p><p>If your class gets any type of temporary combat buff or ability that can increase your chances to win it should be disabled in Pvp combat.</p><p>Why should any class get treated with such disregard as rangers do?</p><p>Balance.</p><p>Or would it be too difficult for everyone to join in and ask for Rangers to receive their Focus Aim ability back?</p></blockquote>Agreed.  So let's nerf Fury's Pact of the Cheetah ... whoops, already disabled that in PvP.  Let's nerf their Pact of the Cheetah upgrade ... whoops already disabled for PvP, so that's already nerfed.  So let's nerf their Predator in-combat runspeed AA ... whoops, already nerfed that too.  Hmmm, I guess Rangers didn't make out so badly after all ... nerf Rangers a couple more times. 

[ailen]

<p>I dont post much anymore, because honestly it doesn't do a lot of good to come here and cry a lot but I have a couple words of advice.</p><p>shut up already.  Brigands and Swashbucklers were nerfed over and over and over again, they effectively ALREADY removed their class defining abilities MONTHS ago..  FOR REAL.</p><p>When I can be in a fully fabled kit, on my plate tank and be taken to 35% of my health in ONE button press by a Ranger. That's overpowered, all the while at range.  Now you get to press 3 buttons to get me to that, BIG FREAKING DEAL.</p><p>Quit crying and learn how to play your class better, you'll realize the nerf wasn't that big of a deal.  Now you have to actually be GOOD at your class instead of sitting on a rock and popping someone for a free token.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont post much anymore, because honestly it doesn't do a lot of good to come here and cry a lot but I have a couple words of advice.</p><p>shut up already.  Brigands and Swashbucklers were nerfed over and over and over again, they effectively ALREADY removed their class defining abilities MONTHS ago..  FOR REAL.</p><p>When I can be in a fully fabled kit, on my plate tank and be taken to 35% of my health in ONE button press by a Ranger. That's overpowered, all the while at range.  Now you get to press 3 buttons to get me to that, BIG FREAKING DEAL.</p><p>Quit crying and learn how to play your class better, you'll realize the nerf wasn't that big of a deal.  Now you have to actually be GOOD at your class instead of sitting on a rock and popping someone for a free token.</p></blockquote>Hmm, so if Ice Nova takes me to 20% of my health in one button, don't I have a right to say so?  I do, according to your logic.  Thanks for the tip!

[Stuckx]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont post much anymore, because honestly it doesn't do a lot of good to come here and cry a lot but I have a couple words of advice.</p><p>shut up already.  Brigands and Swashbucklers were nerfed over and over and over again, they effectively ALREADY removed their class defining abilities MONTHS ago..  FOR REAL.</p><p>When I can be in a fully fabled kit, on my plate tank and be taken to 35% of my health in ONE button press by a Ranger. That's overpowered, all the while at range.  Now you get to press 3 buttons to get me to that, BIG FREAKING DEAL.</p><p>Quit crying and learn how to play your class better, you'll realize the nerf wasn't that big of a deal.  Now you have to actually be GOOD at your class instead of sitting on a rock and popping someone for a free token.</p></blockquote>Hmm, so if Ice Nova takes me to 20% of my health in one button, don't I have a right to say so?  I do, according to your logic.  Thanks for the tip!</blockquote>I'm fairly certain they fixed it so no spell can do more than 50% of a targets health

[mtwideen]

they definitely did not make it so no spell can do more than 50% of health... a couple days ago I got PTed for 5200 damage..... it was not cool, and it was like... over 90% of my health...

[Odawnus Haste]

Atleast give us the haste back. Other than that I really dont notice a difference <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[toenukl]

<cite>Ransagorthemerciless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont post much anymore, because honestly it doesn't do a lot of good to come here and cry a lot but I have a couple words of advice.</p><p>shut up already.  Brigands and Swashbucklers were nerfed over and over and over again, they effectively ALREADY removed their class defining abilities MONTHS ago..  FOR REAL.</p><p>When I can be in a fully fabled kit, on my plate tank and be taken to 35% of my health in ONE button press by a Ranger. That's overpowered, all the while at range.  Now you get to press 3 buttons to get me to that, BIG FREAKING DEAL.</p><p>Quit crying and learn how to play your class better, you'll realize the nerf wasn't that big of a deal.  Now you have to actually be GOOD at your class instead of sitting on a rock and popping someone for a free token.</p></blockquote>Hmm, so if Ice Nova takes me to 20% of my health in one button, don't I have a right to say so?  I do, according to your logic.  Thanks for the tip!</blockquote>I'm fairly certain they fixed it so no spell can do more than 50% of a targets health</blockquote>Naa, it was on PvP Test server, never went live. The problem w/ a max dmg cap is that some classes, such as wizard, depend on that ice nova. Other classes, such as Swash, Brig, Ranger etc, depend on many very fast medium range damage. If you put a cap, those classes will become even more powerful, as nothign will be capped, and the classes that depend on their big hits will be penalized.As for the Wizzie taking the Ranger to 20% health... Resists are insane atm, so that Ice Nova coulda just as easily been resisted, in which case, the poor Wizzie stands absolutely no chance. Also, it has a long cast time, and unless he catches you off guard(which he shouldn't w/ tracking), you can easily interrupt his casting w/ your barrage of arrows and CA's. It would probably take him 10 seconds to get off one Ice Nova, in which time he would be dead. IF he is manashield specced, then he may stand a chance. You take Manashield away and he's a token bot imo, even w/ those high hitting spells.

[toenukl]

<cite>Odawnus Haste wrote:</cite><blockquote>Atleast give us the haste back. Other than that I really dont notice a difference <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I'm not against the Ranger nerf, actually I'm glad SOE finally did something, but I am for giving Focus Aim back in a stripped down form, possibly a 5 second duration, or an X amount of Crit triggers, or no crit buff at all, just accuracy and haste? Or nerf the ranged auto attack dmg, or the dmg on the bows(Bylize?)  that seem to be in question by every non-Ranger player on all 3 PvP servers?In short, yay for nerf, boo for way you were nerfed. (Maybe that will keep me out of the flames <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />)

[Stuckx]

If they had nerfed rangers to the level they are on now,but let them keep the buff..they would still be whining.

[Davii]

<p>A call for balance? </p><p>Must've accidentally gone to the WoW forum again..</p>

[Mildavyn]

There's no point toning down Focus Aim... they did that with heals... wards are cast at PvE values because they are cast BEFORE combat begins, how many Rangers will wait until combat starts to cast Focus Aim? that's right, none of them. Toning down FA will be absolutely pointless.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's no point toning down Focus Aim... they did that with heals... wards are cast at PvE values because they are cast BEFORE combat begins, how many Rangers will wait until combat starts to cast Focus Aim? that's right, none of them. Toning down FA will be absolutely pointless.</blockquote>Sure there is!? If they can make it so that focus aims cancels when entering pvp-combat (as it is now) they can surely make it so that it gets toned down on entering pvp combat. And I often wait(ed) before casting focus aim in pvp.

[Roald]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont post much anymore, because honestly it doesn't do a lot of good to come here and cry a lot but I have a couple words of advice.</p><p>shut up already.  Brigands and Swashbucklers were nerfed over and over and over again, they effectively ALREADY removed their class defining abilities MONTHS ago..  FOR REAL.</p><p>When I can be in a fully fabled kit, on my plate tank and be taken to 35% of my health in ONE button press by a Ranger. That's overpowered, all the while at range.  Now you get to press 3 buttons to get me to that, BIG FREAKING DEAL.</p><p>Quit crying and learn how to play your class better, you'll realize the nerf wasn't that big of a deal.  Now you have to actually be GOOD at your class instead of sitting on a rock and popping someone for a free token.</p></blockquote>Hmm, so if Ice Nova takes me to 20% of my health in one button, don't I have a right to say so?  I do, according to your logic.  Thanks for the tip!</blockquote>You can't even compare the 2. Ice Nova is EASILY resisted, and the wizard has to stand still to cast it for 5 seconds!. Ranger's can auto attack on the run, it's instant when u press auto attack, and a wizard will rarely ever avoid it.

[Odawnus Haste]

<cite>Nail@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odawnus Haste wrote:</cite><blockquote>Atleast give us the haste back. Other than that I really dont notice a difference <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I'm not against the Ranger nerf, actually I'm glad SOE finally did something, but I am for giving Focus Aim back in a stripped down form, possibly a 5 second duration, or an X amount of Crit triggers, or no crit buff at all, just accuracy and haste? Or nerf the ranged auto attack dmg, or the dmg on the bows(Bylize?)  that seem to be in question by every non-Ranger player on all 3 PvP servers?In short, yay for nerf, boo for way you were nerfed. (Maybe that will keep me out of the flames <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />)</blockquote>Well cant say I didnt have a big hand in the nerf. I really believe they should just take the DPS off the buff, and you shouldn't be able to cast Killing Instinct with Focus Aim up. Without focus my bow dmg in pvp is 465-1716, with focus it would be 708-2685 making crits just that more ridiculous.

[Psych]

I am all for it. I havnt even faced high level rangers yet and I keep getting killed by them using backshots hitting me for 60% of my health bar with 1 backshot skill. Considering the distance they attack from me losing 60% on their first attack when they begin the fight...its already over.(yes theyre twinked I'm not but the other twinks dont clean me out in 1 shot like the rangers do)

[ailen]

<p>I mean seriously what are you crying about?</p><p>You still have track, evac, poisons, snares, the best dps from range in the game... faster casting evac, best autoattack damage, fastest self buffed out of combat speed.</p><p>I mean GIVE ME A BREAK.</p><p>they nerfed your buff.  Might wonder why?  Ever do that?</p>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously what are you crying about?</p><p>You still have track, evac, poisons, snares, the best dps from range in the game... faster casting evac, best autoattack damage, fastest self buffed out of combat speed.</p></blockquote>Mostly rangers reply here (cry) because people, like you, write stuff that isn't true or is otherwise irrelevant. It's annoying that people simply refuse to form an educated opinion. Instead they wallow in their personal misconceptions.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously what are you crying about?</p><p>You still have track, evac, poisons, snares, the best dps from range in the game... faster casting evac, best autoattack damage, fastest self buffed out of combat speed.</p></blockquote>Mostly rangers reply here (cry) because people, like you, write stuff that isn't true or is otherwise irrelevant. It's annoying that people simply refuse to form an educated opinion. Instead they wallow in their personal misconceptions.</blockquote>I actualyl find his comments to be pretty close to the truth. Which of those things would you argue about?

[Tae]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously what are you crying about?</p><p>You still have track, evac, poisons, snares, the best dps from range in the game... faster casting evac, best autoattack damage, fastest self buffed out of combat speed.</p></blockquote>Mostly rangers reply here (cry) because people, like you, write stuff that isn't true or is otherwise irrelevant. It's annoying that people simply refuse to form an educated opinion. Instead they wallow in their personal misconceptions.</blockquote>As Paikis said, it's all true. What are you arguing about there? Just note that both Paikis and Ailen have been exiles and fought alongside rangers, they're not freeps who've only ever fought against them.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just note that both Paikis and Ailen have been exiles and fought alongside rangers, they're not freeps who've only ever fought against them.</blockquote><p>I'm not entirely sure that this point is relevant, but it is true nontheless. I have however spent alot more time as a Qeynosian than I have as a Freeportian. Having played both sides of the fence, i can say with absolute certainty that Qeynos is the easy-mode of factions (excluding Exile) both in terms of raiding and PvP.</p><p>Just to keep it atleast somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, I will say this: It is MUCH easier to kill assasins and brigands than it is to kill rangers and swashbucklers. Atleast from the point of view of a solo Troubador.</p>

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously what are you crying about?</p><p>You still have track, evac, poisons, snares, the best dps from range in the game... faster casting evac, best autoattack damage, fastest self buffed out of combat speed.</p></blockquote>Mostly rangers reply here (cry) because people, like you, write stuff that isn't true or is otherwise irrelevant. It's annoying that people simply refuse to form an educated opinion. Instead they wallow in their personal misconceptions.</blockquote>I actualyl find his comments to be pretty close to the truth. Which of those things would you argue about?</blockquote>The whole post is as close to irrelevant as it can get. You can't just say anything and believe your conclusion is supported because you said, well, anything. I can just as easily say that you have track, evac, mez, charm, stifle, stun, poisons, power drain, in combat run speed, snare and proclaim your class is king of pvp cause we all know you're not :P. Then throw in random ability that is disabled in pvp to such a listing and you'll actually get the general pattern of the typical ranger whine.If you have something to contribute than that's fine (and I don't mean "reroll" or cute strawmen like "20% dps reduction means 20 % longer to kill someone"). I'd appricate real comments, perhaps I'd learn something. But if one has nothing to contribute then what's the point.If it escaped anyone we were nerfed too much in the laziest possible way, it wasn't even tested on pvp-test, and we're upset. There is more to a topic like that than what you can gather from getting owned while questing in Kylong plains. (It is also completely irrelevant how much damage we did before the nerf sine it has no bearing on the current situation. It is in the past)This change is more than just a significant recuction in damage. I'll try to illustrate with your typical ambush: Before I would ideally stealth up to someone, pop temp buff and open with one of 3 stealth attacks, depending on the situation. I was stealthy and quick and I could prepare for a fight in a split second. Now I stealth up to someone, drop stealth, cast first temp buff, cast 2nd temp buff (both 1 sec cast time), que stealth and wait for it to refresh and then attack. Yeah right. If I did that to you then I could probably melee you to death too. Of course I have only myself to blame if I play like that but I hope it gets my point across that it's more than a damage nerf. Eventually we'll adapt but we're a changed class.Back to the post in question. -So, I have evac and faster casting evac... Anyone can evac, feed your plant. And FFS, faster evac is in the charm animal line. I never even heard of someone having faster casting evac although I'm dying to try out the charm in Kunark :P-Fastest self buffed ooc run speed? I thought that was furies. Few rangers run around with more than 65% speed anyway, who would put points into fitness?! And besides, PoC can zoomg a whole group into my face. But who cares. If I had focus aim I'd stay and fight you instead.-I have the best ranged dps AND best autoattack damage. Imagine that. I have a feeling one is connected to the other though. (I wonder how assassins would fare in an aa comparison now. Alas, another topic.)

[Hecafe1]

Sorry havent read half the replies to this thread since i know the story already Ranger were OP and everyone else whines about thier own personal nerfs! heres a solution for SoE keep everyone in freeport happy /remove rangerclass might as well do it now and save time and heartache for my most beloved class <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[ailen]

<p>I guess the ole adage of "cry more" is quite appropriate here.  I have been beaten by good rangers since the nerf.  I'm still getting hit with 1 autoattack upwards of 1500 2x with poison so that'll be about 3.5k - 4k of damage, that's over 1/3 of my health.</p><p>I'm a plate tank, with around 10k hitpoints.   so the class that's supposed to take these hits, is still getting almost 1/3 of his health taken away by a single class with an "AUTOATTACK?" and you find that appalling when they took the buff you had that took over 1/2 of my HP when you casted it before combat?</p><p>No? You're really crying?</p><p>If you knew anything about the history of this PvP game, you'd realize I was a brigand before, and even after the constant nerfs, I still found myself playing one of the easiest to gank with toons in the game.  It bores me to win by default.  </p><p>I throw the question out there.  Seriously.  you're going to cry about what?  your buff that was so severely overpowered, AT RANGE, by simply adding a 9s delay bow, which btw is very common in this new expansion at end game, they  nerfed it.  All I know is I definitely see the difference in skill/gear now when fighting a ranger.  The average scrub has no chance and shouldn't</p><p>I guess, there's really not a lot of point, like I said, nothing here but a bunch of crybabies.  I hope they reduce the duration on your snares too.  </p>

[yellowbelly08]

<p>"the average scrub has no cyhance and shouldnt" agreed...but I would not call myself an average scrub having raided for 2 YEARS for a fabled 9 sec bow with no luck. Therefore i am currently not viable. Only option currently to myself <and presumably to 95% of rangers ESPECIALLY those in lower tiers is extreme range kiting. While this is possible in areas like kylong docks most other areas make this really hard due to high likelyhood of backing into adds. It is currently really hard for a ranger without fabled 9 sec bow to kill even bots esp with manashield due to ABSOLUTELY NO burst damage.</p><p>Plus with all the 1 week exploit quest 80s with their bird gank tactics and exploit firework lag tactics, charmed pets etc it is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING for the solo trying to quest ranger. I am currently knowing im gonna get owned in the face daily until im 80 and have the pvp bow and a SMALL ACTUAL CHANCE, my current title reflects this mentality/situation. Of course rangers like Owdanus are still gonna own face, its all about the bow...i can skillyfully kite players around for 2 mins plus with no damage taken..but they aint dead either and o bugger theres his friends. I have faith that at 80 i may be viable again with a bow but my heart goes out to lower tier rangers who will have absolutely no chance and this change was not brought about by rangers/whiners in their lvls.</p><p>and as for you still losing to rangers alien yes it is true we can still beat guardian and zerker with regularity due to your lack of snares and control arts and your lack of heals. Chance against other classes? near zero without bow. So rangers and coercers are your tricky openents thats 2..rangers however have 2 fair oponents and the rest near impossible.</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Amphibia]

I think "easy mode" is always those classes on the other side of the fence....

[Elveira]

<p>Hearing rangers crying that they can't one-shot gank-evac as easily as the used to makes me smile IRL. Hearing people who hide behind rangers also crying makes me smile even more. And if any ranger says they didn't roll a ranger for this ability... they're lying. I know... I rolled one on Nagafen for precisely this reason. At least I'm honest about it.</p><p>And for the record, this is NOT the first time an ability has been completely removed from PVP. Pact of the Cheetah was removed (as it should have). And before rangers talk about class-defining abilities getting seriously whacked, I suggest they talk to their friendly neighborhood Brigand a bit. Honestly, I think Brigs have gotten shafted worse than any other class... but they're STILL incredibly tough in PVP, they just need to use a little more skill now. God forbid we actually require SKILL to win.</p><p>Swashies used to be overpowered, but adding the mit check to AR pretty much fixed the big problem with them. Swashies are still extremely tough though, but I personally wouldn't call them overpowered.</p><p>Rangers still have tracking, still have stealth, still have evac (so they can bail if they get jumped... not so easy for non-evac classes). They still have their true class-defining ability... the ability to get the jump on someone and lay down a lot of spike damage... AT RANGE. Oh... and their damage is physical, which can't be resisted (mitigated, yes, dodged/parried etc, yes, but not full on resisted like magic damage). So hearing somone throw out Ice Nova as an example isn't really comparing apples to apples. </p><p>Clothies still have it the worst. They fall over if a stiff breeze blows and even their big hitters can be resisted if the opposing party has their resists up high enough (I full on resisted a Fusion AND Ice Nova when I went out of Deathtoll with my cold gear on to get a late arrival... I can't do that with physical damage). Oh yeah... and they don't have track and (except for wizzies) don't have evac. If a ranger still can't kill any clothie, even without Focus Aim, they seriously need to reconsider their class choice.</p><p>So now Rangers are going to have to work a little for their kills. God forbid...</p>

[Tatate]

<p>I think if you Rangers would stop spending all your time here complaining, you would be able to figure out how to kill someone WITHOUT the Focus Aim line. </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess the ole adage of "cry more" is quite appropriate here.  I have been beaten by good rangers since the nerf.  I'm still getting hit with 1 autoattack upwards of 1500 2x with poison so that'll be about 3.5k - 4k of damage, that's over 1/3 of my health.</p><p>I'm a plate tank, with around 10k hitpoints.   so the class that's supposed to take these hits, is still getting almost 1/3 of his health taken away by a single class with an "AUTOATTACK?" and you find that appalling when they took the buff you had that took over 1/2 of my HP when you casted it before combat?</p><p>No? You're really crying?</p><p>If you knew anything about the history of this PvP game, you'd realize I was a brigand before, and even after the constant nerfs, I still found myself playing one of the easiest to gank with toons in the game.  It bores me to win by default.  </p><p>I throw the question out there.  Seriously.  you're going to cry about what?  your buff that was so severely overpowered, AT RANGE, by simply adding a 9s delay bow, which btw is very common in this new expansion at end game, they  nerfed it.  All I know is I definitely see the difference in skill/gear now when fighting a ranger.  The average scrub has no chance and shouldn't</p><p>I guess, there's really not a lot of point, like I said, nothing here but a bunch of crybabies.  I hope they reduce the duration on your snares too. </p></blockquote><p>Get that short term memory checked, our snares and roots already received a huge reduction.</p><p>Now if you had said your below average scrub shouldn't have a chance, I'd agree with you.  Why shouldn't an average player have a chance?</p><p>Remember, the average is found by adding all of a set and dividing by the number of subsets used.  Thus, approximately half of the figures used to obtain an average are below, while the other half are above.</p><p>Using your logic, over half the players of the ranger class deserve no chance whatsoever (combining average and below).</p><p>Also, your opinion that people who wish to see more balance are crybabies is a childish and immature one.  Try a constructive argument instead.  You will certainly impress more people that way.</p><p>And to borrow someone else's line of 'Manashield never killed anyone', well, track and evac have never killed anyone either.  I know, its sounds just as bad an argument as it does for those arguing for manashield, but there you go.</p><p>As far as the history of PvP, I'm not sure what the importance of you having played a brigand is, but I'd guess you got tired of the nerfs and switched.  If that's the case, well, I would honestly expect more sympathy from you than derision, as the ranger class has been right there beside the brigands matching them nerf for nerf.</p><p>As to Elveira, I hate to tell you that you are mistaken.  Not lying here.  I didn't choose the ranger class for ganking ability, I've been playing a ranger since pvp started, long before this became an obvious problem with rangers. As to other rangers, they will have to make their own statement.  </p><p>I've never argued that rangers were not OP in some ways.  I have argued against others exxaggerating the abilities of rangers though.</p><p>Taken in context, almost every nerf that has hit the ranger class has had some reason to it. The problem is that when all these nerfs and now the removal of Focus Aim are added together, it has unbalanced us so much that the only solution that seems presentable is to closely watch other classes, and shout to the heavens when we see another class enjoying an obviously overpowered ability, such as Manashield.  Or Ice Nova.</p><p>So, in other words, I've accepted the loss of Focus Aim.  In light of the way SOE presented rangers with this change, with no warning  or reasoning explained, I can only conclude that the way to get things changed by SOE is to use the same methods that have worked against rangers.  Its not asking for advice on tactics to use, its not giving up, its protesting against other classes.</p><p>Thank you SOE for showing me how to get this done!</p>

[Elveira]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Taken in context, almost every nerf that has hit the ranger class has had some reason to it. The problem is that when all these nerfs and now the removal of Focus Aim are added together, it has unbalanced us so much that the only solution that seems presentable is to closely watch other classes, and shout to the heavens when we see another class enjoying an obviously overpowered ability, such as Manashield.  Or Ice Nova.</p><p>So, in other words, I've accepted the loss of Focus Aim.  In light of the way SOE presented rangers with this change, with no warning  or reasoning explained, I can only conclude that the way to get things changed by SOE is to use the same methods that have worked against rangers.  Its not asking for advice on tactics to use, its not giving up, its protesting against other classes.</p><p>Thank you SOE for showing me how to get this done!</p></blockquote><p>This part of your argument I do agree with. Setting aside the question of whether Rangers are or are not deserving of a nerf (both sides have their opinion, and I doubt much will change them) the biggest problem is that SOE has historically catered to those with the mindset of "I cannot beat people of Class X, therefore Class X is overpowered and must be nerfed." Then they go off and nerf Class X, which just shifts the balance toward Class Y and the cycle continues.... "I cannot beat people of Class Y, therefore Class Y is overpowered and must be nerfed". So Class Y takes one across the noggin and... well... you get the idea.</p><p>Even before the current round of nerfings, my personal attitude was that SOE should just leave things alone and end the nerf cycle. As a Warden, there are classes I can beat and classes that I can't *cough*Illusionists*cough*. I pretty much refuse to fight another healer 1:1 because fighting another healer is about as exciting as watching grass grow. That, and in the time it would take for me to get another healer to half power, the entire city of Qeynos can come to help them out.</p><p>There is no such thing as perfect balance. Every class has the classes they can beat pretty routinely, classes that are more or less a 50/50 split depending on how they play a fight and classes they pretty much have no chance in Hades of beating. People just need to accept that and roll with it.</p><p>"Overpowered" is also sort of a half-full/half-empty proposition. Another way to look at the problem is whether Class Y is underpowered relative to most other classes. That is, instead of perpetually focusing on knocking people down, why not instead look at bringing a few people up?</p>

[valkyriepc]

Its already been posted in this thread. Rangers are more or less [Removed for Content] off at the manner at which the nerf occured, rather than the nerf itself. If it was added to the test server and ZOMG!!! tested? To come to a state its currently in and not secretly thrown in there without the knowlege of it happening, then there wouldn't be as much an issue. If rangers were able to read the update notes and go ZOMG i got nerfed rather than log into the game, go to engage a fight and go [I cannot control my vocabulary] why was my dps and burst dmg so low. Lets try this again ZOMG!!! my buff doesn't work in pvp anymore. There wouldn't be quite as much fussin. To all you ranger haters out there, if you were in our shoes you wouldn't be so light on the matter. If SoE decided to remove Harm touch from Sk's in pvp without saying a [I cannot control my vocabulary] word, until you log on go to PT someone and see [I cannot control my vocabulary] invalid target? Its shameful. The Sk community would be an uproar. Or Paikis logs on, goes to mez a wizzy and realize it says Invalid target and never new it got nerf, he would be whining on these forums as much as any of the rangers. So sit back and quit thinking the grass is always greener on the other side.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or Paikis logs on, goes to mez a wizzy and realize it says Invalid target and never new it got nerf, he would be whining on these forums as much as any of the rangers.</blockquote><p>Or Paikis logs in and realises his Charm was nerfed from 12 minutes duration down to 14 seconds... wait this happened... 97.5% duration nerf.Or Paikis logs in and has his self-buff break all his mezzes due to it's proc change... wait, this happened...Or Paikis logs in and finds his Mez changed from being able to keep 4 mobs locked down forever to being only 1 mob... you know what, this happened too!Or Paikis logs in and finds the only thing his class can do better than everyone (run fast) is now done better by anyone with a totem! Oh, and Rangers can buff group runspeed just as well as bards now, and for only half the AA points. As can Wardens and Mystics.</p><p>etc etc</p><p>My point here is that all classes get nerfed and/or changed. I can understand your frustration at not being told about it, but you seriously needed some hard-core 'balancing' and you got it. Personally I would have just cut your auto-attack in half or something, but this works too.</p>

[mtwideen]

ok... so I do agree with some of the rangers, in that, SOE made the change without warning, and that would suck, also, I think they could have nerfed the ability instead of removing... but I still juts gotta say, that the rangers complaining that they can't beat people, that with a fabled 9 sec delay bow... they are useless until they get the pvp bow, i'm sorry but that is NOT true. Every ranger that I know has managed to do just fine with the change, they were annoyed at first, but are now still ganking everyone just like before. And it was said that every class has other classes that are an definite win, I just wanna ask, what is a definite win for a dirge? =P the class I like fighting the most is a brigand or bruiser because i can kite them (Which rangers can do 10x better) but a good one, can still kill me, and there are a lot of classes that are definite losses (SK's... man I hate SK's, and healers, although I have beated a couple healers, but not many). So anyways, I understand rangers pain, it sucks how they did this nerf, but the nerf was needed, and the ranger is stil a very good class.

[convict]

<cite>Patch@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This part of your argument I do agree with. Setting aside the question of whether Rangers are or are not deserving of a nerf (both sides have their opinion, and I doubt much will change them) the biggest problem is that SOE has historically catered to those with the mindset of "I cannot beat people of Class X, therefore Class X is overpowered and must be nerfed." Then they go off and nerf Class X, which just shifts the balance toward Class Y and the cycle continues.... "I cannot beat people of Class Y, therefore Class Y is overpowered and must be nerfed". So Class Y takes one across the noggin and... well... you get the idea.</p><p>Even before the current round of nerfings, my personal attitude was that SOE should just leave things alone and end the nerf cycle. <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">As a Warden, there are classes I can beat and classes that I can't *cough*Illusionists*cough*</span></b>. I pretty much refuse to fight another healer 1:1 because fighting another healer is about as exciting as watching grass grow. That, and in the time it would take for me to get another healer to half power, the entire city of Qeynos can come to help them out.</p><p>There is no such thing as perfect balance. Every class has the classes they can beat pretty routinely, classes that are more or less a 50/50 split depending on how they play a fight and classes they pretty much have no chance in Hades of beating. People just need to accept that and roll with it.</p><p><b>"<span style="color: #ff0000;">Overpowered" is also sort of a half-full/half-empty proposition</span>.<span style="color: #3300ff;">Of course, when you play the most OP class in the game, your views will be like this.</span></b> Another way to look at the problem is whether Class Y is underpowered relative to most other classes. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>That is, instead of perpetually focusing on knocking people down, why not instead look at bringing a few people up?</b></span><b><span style="color: #3300ff;"> Because fights are already short enough and require no skill? Theres not enough time to click the correct buffs/attacks and have a decent fight, its just mash these 3 and its over, next. Unless your a warden and just take on a few people at a time, takes you a little longer to kill them solo.</span></b></p></blockquote>Heres a problem you keep noticing in the forums. People come in here and make post about this class and that class, while at the same time not really giving a fair point of view. If you play a warden, then you for a fact, know thier "OVERPOWERED", fact. Still, dont make post saying the nerfs should stop, just to try to keep yourself from getting hit. There are people in these forums who really would like a better game, we dont need to play the most OP class to make ourselves feel better, we just want to play a game thats not as broken as the current system.

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or Paikis logs on, goes to mez a wizzy and realize it says Invalid target and never new it got nerf, he would be whining on these forums as much as any of the rangers.</blockquote><p>Or Paikis logs in and realises his Charm was nerfed from 12 minutes duration down to 14 seconds... wait this happened... 97.5% duration nerf.Or Paikis logs in and has his self-buff break all his mezzes due to it's proc change... wait, this happened...Or Paikis logs in and finds his Mez changed from being able to keep 4 mobs locked down forever to being only 1 mob... you know what, this happened too!Or Paikis logs in and finds the only thing his class can do better than everyone (run fast) is now done better by anyone with a totem! Oh, and Rangers can buff group runspeed just as well as bards now, and for only half the AA points. As can Wardens and Mystics.</p><p>etc etc</p><p>My point here is that all classes get nerfed and/or changed. I can understand your frustration at not being told about it, but you seriously needed some hard-core 'balancing' and you got it. Personally I would have just cut your auto-attack in half or something, but this works too.</p></blockquote>LOL Paikis, what you have just stated was what we as rangers would rather have happened. A NERF, not a REMOVAL. Were any of your buffs or abilities REMOVED from pvp play? Abilities you can NEVER use again while engaged in pvp combat? Atleast AA increase to runspeed for bards also increases in combat, and stacks with passive 5% increases, giving bards, and bards groups a 15-17% (with passive 5% to those races that have it) increase to in-combat run speed. To my knowlege the only type of classes that still give an in-combat runspeed buff.

[Elveira]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Patch@Venekor wrote:</cite>Heres a problem you keep noticing in the forums. People come in here and make post about this class and that class, while at the same time not really giving a fair point of view. If you play a warden, then you for a fact, know thier "OVERPOWERED", fact. Still, dont make post saying the nerfs should stop, just to try to keep yourself from getting hit. There are people in these forums who really would like a better game, we dont need to play the most OP class to make ourselves feel better, we just want to play a game thats not as broken as the current system.</blockquote><p>Uhhh.... well I personally wouldn't call wardens the most overpowered class in the game. No moreso than Swashies, SKs, Brigs, Assys and... yes... Rangers... but whatever.  Regardless, in addition to my Warden I also have a T8 Fury, Necro and Guardian. So unless you consider those classes to also be overpowered easymode classes, I think I do have a pretty balanced point of view.</p><p>And also for the record I rolled my warden when rolling Furies was the fashionable thing to do (and rolled my Fury when rolling Wardens was the fashionable thing to do), so it's not like I'm a FOTM player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Edit: I will add that overpowered also varies based onm the Tier you're in. I only do T8 PVP, so I look at things form that perspective. At T2/T3, yeah I'll concede that Wardens are stupid overpowered.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I'm sure that we would all agree that the ranger is one of the top 8 overall solo pvp classes in the game right now, and that is a very conservative statement.</p><p>Given that, explain why they need to be boosted.  In your explanation, cite your fights against classes such as plate tanks or summoners.</p><p>If beating a summoner or plate tank is trivial, then you will need to go into great detail regarding why you think rangers should be made more powerful (before those weaker classes are made more powerful.)</p>

[DeathLizard]

Last I checked rangers still have no problem 2 shotting me in pvp, so IMO they are still overpowered...but thats just the view of a foolish Iksar who hasn't learned not to go out solo despite around 500ish pvp deaths to rangers...almost all in less than 3 hits..even by the greys. But no matter, it has improved from the days when a ranger...even a grey one...could kill me in a single hit from beyone my max spell range when i had no idea they were even there...Because they stealth and have a track window. So did rangers need a nerf? IMO yes, do they need my more nerfs? IMO yes..but it depends one what class you play, there are classes such as druids and shaman who can have some success against a ranger, as well as some classes I have luck against, such as sorcerers and healers. I know you guys don't like being nerfed, but try and see it from someone elses viewpoint for once, youd be suprised what you see.

[Oneira]

<cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess the ole adage of "cry more" is quite appropriate here.  I have been beaten by good rangers since the nerf.  I'm still getting hit with 1 autoattack upwards of 1500 2x with poison so that'll be about 3.5k - 4k of damage, that's over 1/3 of my health.</p><p>I'm a plate tank, with around 10k hitpoints.   so the class that's supposed to take these hits, is still getting almost 1/3 of his health taken away by a single class with an "AUTOATTACK?" and you find that appalling when they took the buff you had that took over 1/2 of my HP when you casted it before combat?</p><p>No? You're really crying?</p><p>If you knew anything about the history of this PvP game, you'd realize I was a brigand before, and even after the constant nerfs, I still found myself playing one of the easiest to gank with toons in the game.  It bores me to win by default.  </p><p>I throw the question out there.  Seriously.  you're going to cry about what?  your buff that was so severely overpowered, AT RANGE, by simply adding a 9s delay bow, which btw is very common in this new expansion at end game, they  nerfed it.  All I know is I definitely see the difference in skill/gear now when fighting a ranger.  The average scrub has no chance and shouldn't</p><p>I guess, there's really not a lot of point, like I said, nothing here but a bunch of crybabies.  I hope they reduce the duration on your snares too.  </p></blockquote>I must chime in to corroborate what Ailen says here about plate tanks.  My 71 Guardian on Vene was attacked by a 72 ranger today.  My guard has about 9k hits, 4200 physical mit in defensive stance which becomes about 5500 with Command up, resists averaging around 5k.  Definitely not the most uber guardian out there for my level but pretty decent.Between this ranger's auto attacks and the snares i barely got to the ranger even after staying out of combat and using my AA to cure 25% of my health, got a few hits in before I died.  That's about 11k that ranger did to me, a plate tank in maybe 20 secs if that long.  Basically no chance.Face it, rangers have so many benefits at their disposal as Ailen says.  Run speed, multiple snares and t1 ranged damage, a buff that constantly forces the attacker to lose target (yes i know all rogues get that), etc. etc. As a plate tank I at least want the opportunity to get TO the ranger so that i have a CHANCE to win, but between the tracking which gives him first shot about 75% of the time, the speed which lets him get away if not in combat, and the snares + ranged damage, that's a dream i'll never see.And you know what?  It does get a little tiring.

[Ekelefer]

The ranger community did not ask to be balanced (or for other classes to be balanced) when they were handing everyone their butts in seconds. Now we are supposed to feel sorry for this very same community whom exploited their overpowered characters to no end? Don't be surprised that most players here are not only glad you were nerfed but are rubbing your noses in it. Had you come to the forums with posts like "PLEASE SOE, my class is overpowered and needs balancing" I am doubtless everyone on this forum would crusade with you had SOE still chosen this route. You didn't do that. Instead you attacked and attempted to discredit any claim against your class with the old, and very worn L2P. Now I am not saying the Ranger community is the only community of players within EQ2 that remain silent in light of the fact their class is overpowered. I myself played a SK. When Reaver healed 2% I knew it was overpowered. When the Signet of Light and Darkness healed 1k and dealt 1k dmg I knew that too was overpowered. I did not ask for them to be nerfed. I did as the Ranger community did and enjoyed the pot while it was sweet. That being said I did not come to the forums exclaiming a witch hunt when these items were nerfed. I remained silent as I had done before the nerfs. If you guys want to be vocal why do so by attacking all the classes you were formerly destroying in seconds? Asking for Focus Aim to be reinstated at a lesser potency is enough. You guys brought enough frustration and grief on players of other classes with it in your arsenal. Using its removal as a means to punish other players for an act of balancing that was sorely over due is a complete lack of tact is going to array anyone outside the ranger community against you. Do you really want other player's responding to your pleas to SOE with reasons why rangers should not be given back Focus Aim? It will happen a lot more if you try and drag everyone down with you. Just my 2CP

[Taharn]

What might help against rangers is if they actually gave just a bit of mitigation on cloth items, and if maybe they made mage avoidance mean something (40% avoidance and I very rarely avoid an attack). That way, they arent touching the rangers abilities, instead boosting us a bit (and it doesnt affect pve, since i already avoid fine in that).

[Pumancat]

<p>I do understand Harry's complaint, that people were not informed of this removal of an ability from pvp. I agree that SoE needs to be more informative in their actions concerning these types of nerfs and such. Don't think it's only happened this one time , and only to you rangers tho.</p><p>As an extremely grieffed wizard and bruiser, I do enjoy this happening, and feel there should still be more done to rangers to balance the classes, like removal of using 3 different poisons to have so many effects on toons at one time. But that is my opinion.</p><p>Anarcheru - 73 bruiser</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p> Venekor</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I do understand Harry's complaint, that people were not informed of this removal of an ability from pvp. I agree that SoE needs to be more informative in their actions concerning these types of nerfs and such. Don't think it's only happened this one time , and only to you rangers tho.</p><p>As an extremely grieffed wizard and bruiser, I do enjoy this happening, and feel there should still be more done to rangers to balance the classes, like removal of using 3 different poisons to have so many effects on toons at one time. But that is my opinion.</p><p>Anarcheru - 73 bruiser</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p> Venekor</p></blockquote>Don't worry, if we've learned anything from previous attempts all you need to do is complain complain complain and SOE will remove it.  So if you don't like the fact that multiple poisons can be used just start a "nerf poisons" thread and pretty soon they'll ninja remove that in the next update!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Pumancat]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I do understand Harry's complaint, that people were not informed of this removal of an ability from pvp. I agree that SoE needs to be more informative in their actions concerning these types of nerfs and such. Don't think it's only happened this one time , and only to you rangers tho.</p><p>As an extremely grieffed wizard and bruiser, I do enjoy this happening, and feel there should still be more done to rangers to balance the classes, like removal of using 3 different poisons to have so many effects on toons at one time. But that is my opinion.</p><p>Anarcheru - 73 bruiser</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p> Venekor</p></blockquote>Don't worry, if we've learned anything from previous attempts all you need to do is complain complain complain and SOE will remove it.  So if you don't like the fact that multiple poisons can be used just start a "nerf poisons" thread and pretty soon they'll ninja remove that in the next update!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p> Nah, I'd rather just see them delete rangers altogether,,,<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Anarcheru</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ekeleferal wrote:</cite><blockquote>The ranger community did not ask to be balanced (or for other classes to be balanced) when they were handing everyone their butts in seconds. Now we are supposed to feel sorry for this very same community whom exploited their overpowered characters to no end?Don't be surprised that most players here are not only glad you were nerfed but are rubbing your noses in it. Had you come to the forums with posts like "PLEASE SOE, my class is overpowered and needs balancing" I am doubtless everyone on this forum would crusade with you had SOE still chosen this route. You didn't do that. Instead you attacked and attempted to discredit any claim against your class with the old, and very worn L2P.Now I am not saying the Ranger community is the only community of players within EQ2 that remain silent in light of the fact their class is overpowered. I myself played a SK. When Reaver healed 2% I knew it was overpowered. When the Signet of Light and Darkness healed 1k and dealt 1k dmg I knew that too was overpowered. I did not ask for them to be nerfed. I did as the Ranger community did and enjoyed the pot while it was sweet. That being said I did not come to the forums exclaiming a witch hunt when these items were nerfed. I remained silent as I had done before the nerfs.If you guys want to be vocal why do so by attacking all the classes you were formerly destroying in seconds? Asking for Focus Aim to be reinstated at a lesser potency is enough. You guys brought enough frustration and grief on players of other classes with it in your arsenal. Using its removal as a means to punish other players for an act of balancing that was sorely over due is a complete lack of tact is going to array anyone outside the ranger community against you. Do you really want other player's responding to your pleas to SOE with reasons why rangers should not be given back Focus Aim? It will happen a lot more if you try and drag everyone down with you.Just my 2CP</blockquote><p>Its funny that someone would say that playing your class is an exploit.  If that is the case, then manashield would be an exploit.  FD would be an exploit.  Pre-combat heals would be an exploit.  Etc., etc., etc.</p><p>Its playing your class, using what has been given to you.  Yes, I agree that it is a rare individual indeed that would come to the forums and ask for something on  their character to be nerfed.  Not so rare however, is those rangers who have asked for other classes to be boosted, ie. necromancers in t7.  Even rangers admitted that this class needs some type of defense to increase their survival.  Instead of SOE trying to help Necros though, they decide to fix this  with an ambush REMOVAL of a ranger buff!</p><p>Outside of the ranger community, who exactly can rangers depend on to defend them?  We certainly tried defending ouselves when others would exxaggerate or simply make up outrageous stories of how overpowered rangers are.  I'm not saying all stories are false, but too many were.</p><p>The good news for anti-rangers is that their methods succeeded.</p><p>Now, trying to continue asking for other classes to be given more to make them better has been proven by SOE to be a nonviable solution, with no hope of success.  If you need more proof of this, just check to see how many topics in the class forums where players asking for their class to be boosted actually see results. (Dirge, Necromancer, Coercer forums, to name a few).</p><p>Another example is the fact that even now, right after this removal of one of a ranger's primary buffs, another campaign has already begun to cry for removal of two more scout abilities, track and evac.  </p><p>And FYI, exactly how does your post of asking for the removal of the ranger class, even in jest, help improve anything besides your post count?  Yes, I realize you are joking, but there are people who actually love to see posts like these, because it helps color the general impression of scouts=bad.</p><p>Back on topic.</p><p>Manashield is still OP.  SOE, please continue your track record of removing OP abilities from PvP.</p>

[Dh]

Take away manashield and sorcerers are free tokens due long cast times. Why don't you ask for rangers and assassins to get a much needed interrupt or stun/knockback ability instead.

[Magius789]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Take away manashield and sorcerers are free tokens due long cast times. Why don't you ask for rangers and assassins to get a much needed interrupt or stun/knockback ability instead.</blockquote>Because the ranger community has learned that isn't how people do things.  Instead of asking for a reasonable solution we are going to make outrageous claims to abilities that give us trouble so we can get SOE to ninja remove those as well since that seems to be how things work.

[toenukl]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Yes, I agree that it is a rare individual indeed that would come to the forums and ask for something on  their character to be nerfed.  Not so rare however, is those rangers who have asked for other classes to be boosted, ie. necromancers in t7.  Even rangers admitted that this class needs some type of defense to increase their survival.  Instead of SOE trying to help Necros though, they decide to fix this  with an ambush REMOVAL of a ranger buff! </blockquote>If SOE buffed all classes to Ranger status, instead of nerfing Rangers then all PvP fights would last under 5 seconds. Not feasible imo. If anything, fights should last WAY longer than they do.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Page 13, and we still have Rangers arguing with the other Rogues, Druids, and Sorcerors about who should be top dog.</p><p>No concern at all about the gimpest of the [Removed for Content].   This is a pathetic thread.</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Page 13, and we still have Rangers arguing with the other Rogues, Druids, and Sorcerors about who should be top dog.</p><p>No concern at all about the gimpest of the [Removed for Content].   This is a pathetic thread.</p></blockquote><p>That is a pathetic post, with a decent post count maybe you should pay more attention.  There have been many posts and Harry has even said in this thread or the other one that rangers have come here time and again saying certain classess need buffed, necros being at the top of this list.</p><p>Then again a post like this coming from a person who's sig is bragging about his completely maxed out twink doesn't really surprise me either.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Two thumbs down for you!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I don't think it takes much to realize what Harry is trying to do here and most rangers are agreeing that they would have been completely fine with a toning down of this ability for PvP however most rangers are complaining in the method in which SOE decided to go about making this change.  Not letting any information about the change out, no mention of it in the update notes, and nothing about it since.  Not only was it not a ninja nerf but a ninja removal instead.  He's simply trying to get other people to take a step back and look at it from the perspective of if it happened to their class instead of someone elses.  Since its obvious the crazy exagerations (sp?) of rangers abilities by frequent ranger hater posters on this forum got this ability removed he is simply trying to show people what a taste of their own medicine feels like.  More than half the information of the ranger fights on this board has been BS and because of it a class specific buff was REMOVED, not nerfed, REMOVED.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Page 13, and we still have Rangers arguing with the other Rogues, Druids, and Sorcerors about who should be top dog.</p><p>No concern at all about the gimpest of the [Removed for Content].   This is a pathetic thread.</p></blockquote><p>That is a pathetic post, with a decent post count maybe you should pay more attention.  There have been many posts and Harry has even said in this thread or the other one that rangers have come here time and again saying certain classess need buffed, necros being at the top of this list.</p><p>Then again a post like this coming from a person who's sig is bragging about his completely maxed out twink doesn't really surprise me either.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Two thumbs down for you!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><span style="font-size: small;">I don't think it takes much to realize what Harry is trying to do here and most rangers are agreeing that they would have been completely fine with a toning down of this ability for PvP</span> </span>however most rangers are complaining in the method in which SOE decided to go about making this change.  Not letting any information about the change out, no mention of it in the update notes, and nothing about it since.  Not only was it not a ninja nerf but a ninja removal instead.  He's simply trying to get other people to take a step back and look at it from the perspective of if it happened to their class instead of someone elses.  Since its obvious the crazy exagerations (sp?) of rangers abilities by frequent ranger hater posters on this forum got this ability removed he is simply trying to show people what a taste of their own medicine feels like.  More than half the information of the ranger fights on this board has been BS and because of it a class specific buff was REMOVED, not nerfed, REMOVED.</p></blockquote><p>It's exactly comments like this that make the community give no sympathy to rangers when they get nerf'd. </p><p>Rangers swear blind they were never OP and are fully balanced, replying with pointless generic comments like L2P etc.</p><p>You are "never OP" it seems until you are nerf'd, then you all come out of the wood-work and openly admit it.</p><p><i><b>I</b></i> know it, <i><b>you</b></i> know and more importantly <i><b>SoE developers</b></i> know it.. you <b>were</b> OP.. Maybe you are still OP, I will however NOT be asking whether you agree or not. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I'll let the developers decide that..</p><p>P.S. There are classes out there that are <u>FAR</u> weaker than rangers in PvP.. stop moaning FFS</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Page 13, and we still have Rangers arguing with the other Rogues, Druids, and Sorcerors about who should be top dog.</p><p>No concern at all about the gimpest of the [Removed for Content].   This is a pathetic thread.</p></blockquote><p>That is a pathetic post, with a decent post count maybe you should pay more attention.  There have been many posts and Harry has even said in this thread or the other one that rangers have come here time and again saying certain classess need buffed, necros being at the top of this list.</p><p>Then again a post like this coming from a person who's sig is bragging about his completely maxed out twink doesn't really surprise me either.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Two thumbs down for you!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;"><span style="font-size: small;">I don't think it takes much to realize what Harry is trying to do here and most rangers are agreeing that they would have been completely fine with a toning down of this ability for PvP</span> </span>however most rangers are complaining in the method in which SOE decided to go about making this change.  Not letting any information about the change out, no mention of it in the update notes, and nothing about it since.  Not only was it not a ninja nerf but a ninja removal instead.  He's simply trying to get other people to take a step back and look at it from the perspective of if it happened to their class instead of someone elses.  Since its obvious the crazy exagerations (sp?) of rangers abilities by frequent ranger hater posters on this forum got this ability removed he is simply trying to show people what a taste of their own medicine feels like.  More than half the information of the ranger fights on this board has been BS and because of it a class specific buff was REMOVED, not nerfed, REMOVED.</p></blockquote><p>It's exactly comments like this that make the community give no sympathy to rangers when they get nerf'd. </p><p>Rangers swear blind they were never OP and are fully balanced, replying with pointless generic comments like L2P etc.</p><p>You are "never OP" it seems until you are nerf'd, then you all come out of the wood-work and openly admit it.</p><p><i><b>I</b></i> know it, <i><b>you</b></i> know and more importantly <i><b>SoE developers</b></i> know it.. you <b>were</b> OP.. Maybe you are still OP, I will however NOT be asking whether you agree or not. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p>I'll let the developers decide that..</p><p>P.S. There are classes out there that are <u>FAR</u> weaker than rangers in PvP.. stop moaning FFS</p></blockquote><p>Saying that we agree that one ability should probably be toned down in no way says the entire class itself is OP.  And Siphar lets remember that we didn't get nerfed, we had a primary buff completely REMOVED.  I don't think rangers are OP because when you know how to fight them they can be defeated pretty handily but people out there would much prefer to spend 10 min. on the forums crying and whinning instead of just learning how to fight.  I've gotten into many fights with rangers on my SK on Naggy and even though I get to about half life before I can get to them I loose maybe a 100 more hp before I take all of theirs and kill them.  Probably because I have a ranger and know how to fight one.  I think there are many abilities that many classess should have toned down but that doesn't mean I think the entire class itself is OP.</p><p>The devs knew that what they were doing was simply to appease the crying massess, this is evident in how they went about the removal.  Not putting it in the update notes or telling anybody about it and just turning it off in PvP.  If you still think rangers are OP after the last 7 nerfs we've received in the past updates and the removal of our buff then its evident that you are just a poor PvPer and once rangers are reduced to nothing you'll be back on here crying for nerfs of the next class that keeps killing you.</p><p>Edit: I completely agree that there are other classess the need survivability buffs, necro's at the top but you should buff them instead of removing everything else from the other classess.  Pretty soon EQ2 PvP will be two players running up to each other and doing a round of rock/paper/scissors to determine who wins.</p>

[Stuckx]

L2P...'nuff said.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="72" height="69" />

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite> <p>Saying that we agree that one ability should probably be toned down in no way says the entire class itself is OP.  And Siphar lets remember that we didn't get nerfed, we had a primary buff completely REMOVED.  <span style="color: #3333ff;">I don't think rangers are OP because when you know how to fight them they can be defeated pretty handily but people out there would much prefer to spend 10 min. on the forums crying and whinning instead of just learning how to fight.  I've gotten into many fights with rangers on my SK on Naggy and even though I get to about half life before I can get to them I loose maybe a 100 more hp before I take all of theirs and kill them.  Probably because I have a ranger and know how to fight one.  </span>I think there are many abilities that many classess should have toned down but that doesn't mean I think the entire class itself is OP.</p><p>The devs knew that what they were doing was simply to appease the crying massess, this is evident in how they went about the removal.  Not putting it in the update notes or telling anybody about it and just turning it off in PvP.  If you still think rangers are OP after the last 7 nerfs we've received in the past updates and the removal of our buff then its evident that you are just a poor PvPer and once rangers are reduced to nothing you'll be back on here crying for nerfs of the next class that keeps killing you.</p><p>Edit: I completely agree that there are other classess the need survivability buffs, necro's at the top but you should buff them instead of removing everything else from the other classess.  Pretty soon EQ2 PvP will be two players running up to each other and doing a round of rock/paper/scissors to determine who wins.</p></blockquote><p>Or perhaps it's the fact that your SK wears plate? Oh yeah, HT FTW!</p><p>Rangers take out most other armor classes in time it takes them to even react ONCE.</p><p>BTW, I'm a ranger <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Ok a few more comments on the situation..</p><p>Firstly and most imporatantly soe STILL havent fixed the ranger fettering poison aa. This SHOULD give us a greatly increased chance to proc this poison <with 5 aa in it> However it DOESNT STILL. I chased a tank the other day for 2mins with ultra long bow <snaring shot out of range> and fettering poison didnt land ONCE despite maybe 40 hits... It has been bugged by the ranger community SINVCE THE AAS RELEASE and NOTHING has been DONE about it or even COMMENTED UPON. This with the focus aim removal fettering poison would have given us a CHANCE but no soe DOESNT CARE ABOUT RANGERS AT ALL.</p><p>More evidence to their attitude is instanced/quested etc rok drops. In guild events hourly an item pops up that is uber for swash, healers, mage or tanks. Everything has melee crit or melee double attack, plus slashing and the like or proc heal off heal etc etc. There are 2, repeat 2 respectable ranger drops <the coa bow> and some boots from somewhere which proc chance to range da. You say oi what about that bracelet off last named in coa ? and the other +ranged or ranged crit items? I say well wheres the flipping strength on them, thus making them irrelevant, while uber heal items have WIS or uber wiz item HAVE INT. Its a very sorry state of affairs that the best ranger sword i have seen rok is the MASTERCRAFTED <65 STR 35 INT>. We rarely melee i just want the stats. Or give a a ranged benefit on swords such as +dps? nope...ignored again.</p><p>OOOO and WHY HAVENT WE GOT AMMO FOR OUR BOW TIER STILL.Why DO WE THEREFORE HAVE TO KEEP LIVING WITH THE LOSS OF DPS DUE TO ammo of the wrong tier.</p><p>JUST INSPECTED THE WIZ FUSION UPGRADE PVP STAT AND IT DOES 10k. The sk upgrade is hitting very frequently over 4k pvp sometimes 5k. You say sniper arrow? I say when is that ca possible in a fight against a concious player?The chosen ones <swash> get new uber gear really relevant to them in EVERY SLOT, and hence continue to pwn face into the ground. Rangers, the forgotten class, due to incredibly lame whiners that needed to l2p and actually research the subject more thoroughly and soe devs without a real clue at all about the situation. Have i sent my thoughts to gms and petition? YES. Have i received ANY RESPONSE? NO....</p><p>That enough evidence for ya?</p><p>p.s I still somehow retain optimism that ill become viable again with the pvp bow and evential <yawn> fix of the fettering debacle.</p><p>Galoro</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>haha, here's a ranger claiming his class is not viable.    haha  See what I'm saying folks?   It's pathetic.</p>

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Lock some more nub. I am stating facts. Clear facts that shouldnt be happening <aa bug etc> Facts that soe ignores my class. As a presumed wiz/warlock soe has given you much loving recently, you are now more "viable" than youve ever been and you join the ranger whining masses. Lame.</p><p>p.s lvl up kktnx</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite> <p>Saying that we agree that one ability should probably be toned down in no way says the entire class itself is OP.  And Siphar lets remember that we didn't get nerfed, we had a primary buff completely REMOVED.  <span style="color: #3333ff;">I don't think rangers are OP because when you know how to fight them they can be defeated pretty handily but people out there would much prefer to spend 10 min. on the forums crying and whinning instead of just learning how to fight.  I've gotten into many fights with rangers on my SK on Naggy and even though I get to about half life before I can get to them I loose maybe a 100 more hp before I take all of theirs and kill them.  Probably because I have a ranger and know how to fight one.  </span>I think there are many abilities that many classess should have toned down but that doesn't mean I think the entire class itself is OP.</p><p>The devs knew that what they were doing was simply to appease the crying massess, this is evident in how they went about the removal.  Not putting it in the update notes or telling anybody about it and just turning it off in PvP.  If you still think rangers are OP after the last 7 nerfs we've received in the past updates and the removal of our buff then its evident that you are just a poor PvPer and once rangers are reduced to nothing you'll be back on here crying for nerfs of the next class that keeps killing you.</p><p>Edit: I completely agree that there are other classess the need survivability buffs, necro's at the top but you should buff them instead of removing everything else from the other classess.  Pretty soon EQ2 PvP will be two players running up to each other and doing a round of rock/paper/scissors to determine who wins.</p></blockquote><p>Or perhaps it's the fact that your SK wears plate? Oh yeah, HT FTW!</p><p>Rangers take out most other armor classes in time it takes them to even react ONCE.</p><p>BTW, I'm a ranger <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ah Ha!!!  My SK is only lvl 17 so there! No HT for me to us!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />   In a tier in which rangers are supposidly dominating I have no problem fighting ones that are orange and in lvl 22 MC gear.  So whats your excuse now.</p><p>BTW, I'm a ranger too!</p>

[Magius789]

You know the second funniest thing about this whole idea is that they removed our ability in PvP.  HOWEVER this is a lvl 64 spell and we get NO UPGRADE for this spell between lvl 70-80.  So not only do they remove the PvP version of our lvl 64 spell but they completely removed any PvE AND PvP version of the upgrade!!!   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I play 8 classes - some [Removed for Content] and some overpowered.  I am calling for balance amongst all of the classes, and that balancing does <u>not</u> start with a boost to rangers.   It starts with a boost to summoners, guardians, bards, etc.    The ranger class can crush these classes very easily right now, so it makes no sense at all to give rangers a boost.   It is not relevant whether the latest ranger nerf came in the form of a removal of an ability or just the toning down of an ability.</p><p>The balancing I call for can come in the form of a nerf to sorcerors, wardens, rogues, etc.   Or it can come from a boost to the [Removed for Content] classes, or a little bit of both.   But to boost a top 5 class right now is ludicrous.   All that does is help them to defeat the [Removed for Content] classes even more easily.   What is so hard to understand about this?   Giving rangers their ability back that got removed only serves to further imbalance the solo field of play, and thus further limits the population of the wide variety of classes that are offerred.   I want diversity out there, and an nerfing of rogues can serve that purpose, just as a nerfing of wardens or sorcerors would.</p><p>In short, nerf the top, boost the bottom.   Bring them all in line with the middle of the pack.</p>

[treyy]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Balancing the top few classes amongst each other is a pointless waste of time.</p><p>I don't care if rangers are not exactly as powerful as brigands.  You both destroy my guardian.</p><p>You whine about who is most powerful vs who is 4th most powerful, or whatever.</p><p>If you really want a balanced set of classes in solo pvp, then you would be calling for the worst of them to be boosted.  No one else requires boosting until that is done.  Every time you call for a mid to top tier solo pvp class being granted some ability that allows it to match up with a brigand, or whatever, is a power that allows you to defeat the guardian <u>even more easily.</u></p><p>Granting rangers anything at this point imbalances the game even further.  They are not [Removed for Content].  Other classes are, relatively speaking.</p></blockquote><p>Lets set the record straight.  I'm not asking for Rangers to be boosted.  I'm asking for SOE to give back what they took away, our ranged combat buff Focus Aim.</p><p>If that is an impossibility, then why shouldn't I ask for other classes to receive the same treatment Rangers have gotten?  Nerf, after nerf, after nerf, Ad Nauseum.</p><p>Now if you feel Guardians are underpowered for PvP, feel free to start a different topic asking for a boost, as you call it.</p></blockquote>what class has recieved more nurfs that brigands? Were you around for prenurf brigs? Should they become unnurfed too?

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Lack@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Lets set the record straight.  I'm not asking for Rangers to be boosted.  I'm asking for SOE to give back what they took away, our ranged combat buff Focus Aim.<p>If that is an impossibility, then why shouldn't I ask for other classes to receive the same treatment Rangers have gotten?  Nerf, after nerf, after nerf, Ad Nauseum.</p><p>Now if you feel Guardians are underpowered for PvP, feel free to start a different topic asking for a boost, as you call it.</p></blockquote>what class has recieved more nurfs that brigands? Were you around for prenurf brigs? Should they become unnurfed too?</blockquote>That is just it!  A nerf is ok, I'd stil have the same option available, only a weaker version of it. But they removed it. The button is gone! And so I have one less option because of it.That is wrong and bad for the game, isn't it?

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite> <p>Saying that we agree that one ability should probably be toned down in no way says the entire class itself is OP.  And Siphar lets remember that we didn't get nerfed, we had a primary buff completely REMOVED.  <span style="color: #3333ff;">I don't think rangers are OP because when you know how to fight them they can be defeated pretty handily but people out there would much prefer to spend 10 min. on the forums crying and whinning instead of just learning how to fight.  I've gotten into many fights with rangers on my SK on Naggy and even though I get to about half life before I can get to them I loose maybe a 100 more hp before I take all of theirs and kill them.  Probably because I have a ranger and know how to fight one.  </span>I think there are many abilities that many classess should have toned down but that doesn't mean I think the entire class itself is OP.</p><p>The devs knew that what they were doing was simply to appease the crying massess, this is evident in how they went about the removal.  Not putting it in the update notes or telling anybody about it and just turning it off in PvP.  If you still think rangers are OP after the last 7 nerfs we've received in the past updates and the removal of our buff then its evident that you are just a poor PvPer and once rangers are reduced to nothing you'll be back on here crying for nerfs of the next class that keeps killing you.</p><p>Edit: I completely agree that there are other classess the need survivability buffs, necro's at the top but you should buff them instead of removing everything else from the other classess.  Pretty soon EQ2 PvP will be two players running up to each other and doing a round of rock/paper/scissors to determine who wins.</p></blockquote><p>Or perhaps it's the fact that your SK wears plate? Oh yeah, HT FTW!</p><p>Rangers take out most other armor classes in time it takes them to even react ONCE.</p><p>BTW, I'm a ranger <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Ah Ha!!!  My SK is only lvl 17 so there! No HT for me to us!  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />   In a tier in which rangers are supposidly dominating I have no problem fighting ones that are orange and in lvl 22 MC gear.  So whats your excuse now.</p><p>BTW, I'm a ranger too!</p></blockquote><p>I guess you missed the part where I mentioned you wear plate, thus high mitigation.</p><p>And no one ever said rangers were dominateing T2.  T2 is dominated by Druids.</p>

[treyy]

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rvbarton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Survivability for healers, primarily Mystics ( I play a mystic ), and Templars should be looked at in 1 vs. 1 PVP.</p><p>I fought a even con opposing faction character in Kylong Plains, with enough warning to be able to pre-ward myself.  For almost 40 seconds, my vision was blurred and I could only cast one spell ( 4 sec cast time, Mystic Single target ward),  and then I hit my Emergency group ward (instant cast), both together total equal to over 4k in damage prevention, including my pre-group ward, adding an additional 2100 dmg prevention, and my own hitpoints were around 6000, during this, totaling over 12k in damage I should have been able to endure and still live.  </p><p>As soon as the blur wore off I was dead.  </p><p>healers have a very difficult time surviving in one vs. one PVP.  </p><p>Devs, please look at this.</p></blockquote>Honestly, If your losing as a Mystic in 1 on1 with prewards. You really really need to rethink what your doing. The only people that should kill you are druids and clerics if prewarded. and ST ward is 2 sec cast...</blockquote>brigand is the biggest counter to shamans in the game

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Very recently Brigands were nerfed repeatedly and even more so than rangers at one point. However crucially they are back as gods due to 2 changes that have boosted them immensly to be almost swash like <while rangers will never get a boost> These being..</p><p>A. The new dispatch debuffing for crazy lvls similar to pre nerf dispatch.</p><p>B. The use of anti stun pot putting a player in combat combined with the above meaning that vs a good brigand you cant evac or get away. If stunned for 2-3 secs at start you are dead. Master Kilblade has destroyed me in this manner a few times recently <even when i saw him at range all attacks/snares missed and he was on me for the 2 sec kil> The mechanics of combat are imo bugged. Even 3 mins after an encounter where maybe the player evacced from me i cast see stealth totem and it puts me in combat. In the past with brig if i evaced at nearest possible momment i just got away without dying...now with new dispatch and higher brig dps..there is no escape.</p><p>So in conclusion brigs finally got some loving back.....Rangers still waiting for at the very least the fettering aa fix and some decent instance ranged str gear.</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know the second funniest thing about this whole idea is that they removed our ability in PvP.  HOWEVER this is a lvl 64 spell and we get NO UPGRADE for this spell between lvl 70-80.  So not only do they remove the PvP version of our lvl 64 spell but they completely removed any PvE AND PvP version of the upgrade!!!   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>If it doesn't work in PvP, why on earth would you care if it wasn't upgraded?</p><p>Surely you'd be happier with them upgrading something that does work.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know the second funniest thing about this whole idea is that they removed our ability in PvP.  HOWEVER this is a lvl 64 spell and we get NO UPGRADE for this spell between lvl 70-80.  So not only do they remove the PvP version of our lvl 64 spell but they completely removed any PvE AND PvP version of the upgrade!!!   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>If it doesn't work in PvP, why on earth would you care if it wasn't upgraded?</p><p>Surely you'd be happier with them upgrading something that does work.</p></blockquote><p>He did say it was funny.  There is the occasional PvE you know.  Unfortunately, or not, for rangers, the beta version of our upgrade never made it live, the upgrade deemed as either too sucky/OP, take your choice, no difference really.</p><p>Considering that this was a PvE based decision (t8 upgrade) by the Dev's, which is always considered primary, and pvp as an afterthought only, doesn't alter the fact of how this pvp change of our current ability was introduced (random skeleton jumping in your face here).</p><p>As to being happier with an upgrade to something that does work, I am going out on a limb and say no.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Haha, didn't see that coming didja?  All joking aside, from a ranger's viewpoint, when Manashield was first implemented as a counter to our initial burst dps, I sincerely doubt you heard any rangers complaining.  Why?</p><p>My feelings on the matter at the time were 'good, maybe this will make fights with casters more challenging'.  And it did.</p><p>Unfortunately, this didn't help all types of casters.  Other non-MS casters still suffered.</p><p>With the removal of Focus Aim however, the casting of MS has now become an OP ability.  Introduced as a counter to burst DPS, with the removal of that burst ability it has become a godlike shield.</p>

[Pumancat]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <p>Haha, didn't see that coming didja?  All joking aside, from a ranger's viewpoint, when Manashield was first implemented as a counter to our initial burst dps, I sincerely doubt you heard any rangers complaining.  Why?</p><p>My feelings on the matter at the time were 'good, maybe this will make fights with casters more challenging'.  And it did.</p><p>Unfortunately, this didn't help all types of casters.  Other non-MS casters still suffered.</p><p>With the removal of Focus Aim however, the casting of MS has now become an OP ability.  Introduced as a counter to burst DPS, with the removal of that burst ability it has become a godlike shield.</p></blockquote><p>Will you PLEASE  stop whining about manashield? You rangers had no problem dealing with it when it was 1:1 nor 1:1.5 . Especially you Harry, many was the time you got me in Bonemire with your cheap ranger tactics, in which MS didn't even have a chance to be a factor, or when I did, you used other abilities and tactics to counter it. So stop acting like it your personal bane.</p><p> You rangers have a load of abilities to still be the T1, no risk, easymode class on here, just too many of you too lame to actually take the time to learn. Bottom line is You and every other lame playing ranger making this thread draw out as a whine fest because they took away one of your buffs that made your class OP, notice I said only one. You're still very capable of major killing in a few seconds time. BIG DEAL!, you can't critt 100% of the time.</p><p> Ok, maybe I'm wrong about that, I do agree and have said before it was a lousy way for Devs to do it, BUT YOU NOT THE FIRST,  get over it and adapt like the other classes had to do.</p><p>If you're too lazy to adapt cause you so used to easymode 3 second killing, then just cancel your account, maybe the money loss will get the devs attention enough to look at how they do things like this.</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p>Venekor server</p>

[mtwideen]

ummm... so just because manashield wasn't overpowered when rangers could spike through it with focus aim... but now ONLY RANGERS are having a harder time spiking through it cause of no focus aim it is overpowered. I'm not saying it is or isn't overpowered (as  dirge I HATE manashield lol) but I don't think u can say because 1 class is now having a harder time beating it that it is now overpowered...

[Tatate]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know the second funniest thing about this whole idea is that they removed our ability in PvP.  HOWEVER this is a lvl 64 spell and we get NO UPGRADE for this spell between lvl 70-80.  So not only do they remove the PvP version of our lvl 64 spell but they completely removed any PvE AND PvP version of the upgrade!!!   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>LOL

[Tatate]

<p>About Manashield...let me tell a little story.</p><p>All across Norrath, Sorcerors were opressed by the many other classes they came to fight against. Their choice of using high damage spells came at a price, only thin cloth for armor. Their powerful spells were useless as they were easily interrupted by the massive barrage of damage they recieved during their encounters with the enemy. Unable to successfully cast a spell, the lightly armored Sorcerors were easily annihilated. Shame ridden, many Sorcerors gave up the practice. But a brave few remained, and through carefull study of the Sorcerous arts, they unlocked...Manashield.</p><p>The moral of the story is....after being killed within seconds before, it is our time... It is our time to shine. Don't complain to me, it's falling on deaf ears.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<p><b>Missed the anniversary of removal of evac in combat!  GU 29, 11/06</b></p><p><b><b>Subject:</b> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Game Update #36, June 28th, 2007</b></p><p><b>AMMUNITION</b> </p><ul><li>The effectiveness of various kinds of ammo, including crafted, loot, summoned, and store bought has been adjusted to better balance with respect to cost, difficulty to acquire, and damage effectiveness. Previously, very high Accuracy bonuses made it near impossible to miss with auto attacks when using these arrows. Most Handcrafted ammo types received additional bonuses. </li><li>Tenderwood Arrows bonus to Accuracy bonus reduced from 75% to 20%. </li><li>Ammo summoned from Fabled weapons Accuracy reduced from 25% to 15%. </li><li>Powerful arrows that were reduced </li><li>Tenderwood Arrows bonus to accuracy, damage, and range reduced. </li></ul><blockquote><p><i>Overall adjustments to Arrows </i></p></blockquote><ul><li>Summoned: Accuracy -5%, Range -5m, Damage Rank 5 </li><li>Store bought: Accuracy +0%, Range -5m, Damage Rank 4 </li><li>Round: Accuracy +30%, Range +5m, Damage Rank 3 </li><li>Bodkin: Accuracy +10%, Range +0m, Damage Rank 2 </li><li>Broad: Accuracy -10%, Range -5m, Damage Rank 1 </li></ul><p><b>PVP</b> </p><ul><li><b>General </b></li><ul><li>Damage was reduced at the higher levels based on class. Rogues, <b>predators</b>, sorcerers and summoners had the greatest reduction. Druids, enchanters and brawlers fall in the middle while the others had lower amounts of damage reduction. Hopefully this will make fights a bit longer at the high end. </li><li><b>All in combat run speeds will now disable except for the bard achievement which grants in combat run speed to selos.</b> </li><li><b>Ranger PvP Combat Effects </b></li><ul><li>The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. </li><li>Hook Arrow will no longer summon your target to you. </li><li>Reduced the root duration of the lunge line </li><li>Reduced the snare duration on the leg shot line. </li></ul></ul></ul><p><b>Subject:</b> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Game Update #37, July 31st, 2007</p><p><b>Ranger</b></p><ul><li>Enhance: Hawk Dive: Also improves reuse speed by 6 seconds per rank. </li><li>Befriend Animal: Increased effectiveness of charmed animal. </li><li>Enhance: Lunge: Increased duration bonus from 0.4 to 0.5 seconds per rank. </li><li>Hook Arrow: Improved reuse speed from 2 minutes to 90 seconds. </li><li>Enhance: Thorny Trap: Increased reuse speed bonus from 6 to 8 seconds per rank. Also improves casting speed by 0.4 seconds per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Survival Instincts: Also increases bonuses by additional 4% per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Fettering Poison: also increases snare amount by 3%. </li><li>Enhance: Ancillery Poison: Increased skill reduction bonus from 4% to 7% per rank, resist bonus from 3% to 5% per rank. Also improves reductions in defense, deflection, and parry skills. </li><li>Conservation: Duration of potions are doubled. All potions consumed are 20% more effective than before. </li><li><b>Double Arrow: Reduced ranged doubleattack bonus from 10% to 8%.</b></li></ul><p><b>Subject:</b> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Game Update #38, September 12th, 2007 <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381798#top" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/styles/EQ2/eq2_dof/images/common/icon_up.gif" alt="" width="16" height="15" border="0" /></a> </p><p>Ranged weapons will no longer trigger procs on weapons equipped in the primary or secondary slot.</p><p><b>Ranger</b></p><ul><li>The Miracle shot line now requires the ranger to acquire the target with line of sight. The actual shot does not require it though. </li></ul><p><b>Subject:</b> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Game Update #40, November 13th 2007 - Rise of Kunark</p><p><b><u>NOT LISTED</u></b></p><p><b>Ranger</b></p><p>Focus Aim and all its lesser level equivelants will be completely disabled in PvP combat.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <p>Haha, didn't see that coming didja?  All joking aside, from a ranger's viewpoint, when Manashield was first implemented as a counter to our initial burst dps, I sincerely doubt you heard any rangers complaining.  Why?</p><p>My feelings on the matter at the time were 'good, maybe this will make fights with casters more challenging'.  And it did.</p><p>Unfortunately, this didn't help all types of casters.  Other non-MS casters still suffered.</p><p>With the removal of Focus Aim however, the casting of MS has now become an OP ability.  Introduced as a counter to burst DPS, with the removal of that burst ability it has become a godlike shield.</p></blockquote><p>Will you PLEASE  stop whining about manashield? You rangers had no problem dealing with it when it was 1:1 nor 1:1.5 . Especially you Harry, many was the time you got me in Bonemire with your cheap ranger tactics, in which MS didn't even have a chance to be a factor, or when I did, you used other abilities and tactics to counter it. So stop acting like it your personal bane.</p><p> You rangers have a load of abilities to still be the T1, no risk, easymode class on here, just too many of you too lame to actually take the time to learn. Bottom line is You and every other lame playing ranger making this thread draw out as a whine fest because they took away one of your buffs that made your class OP, notice I said only one. You're still very capable of major killing in a few seconds time. BIG DEAL!, you can't critt 100% of the time.</p><p> Ok, maybe I'm wrong about that, I do agree and have said before it was a lousy way for Devs to do it, BUT YOU NOT THE FIRST,  get over it and adapt like the other classes had to do.</p><p>If you're too lazy to adapt cause you so used to easymode 3 second killing, then just cancel your account, maybe the money loss will get the devs attention enough to look at how they do things like this.</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p>Venekor server</p></blockquote><p>If I win, its cheap tactics; if I lose, I'm too lazy to learn my class.</p><p>Some people are just too difficult to please.</p>

[Ekelefer]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ekeleferal wrote:</cite><blockquote>The ranger community did not ask to be balanced (or for other classes to be balanced) when they were handing everyone their butts in seconds. Now we are supposed to feel sorry for this very same community whom exploited their overpowered characters to no end?Don't be surprised that most players here are not only glad you were nerfed but are rubbing your noses in it. Had you come to the forums with posts like "PLEASE SOE, my class is overpowered and needs balancing" I am doubtless everyone on this forum would crusade with you had SOE still chosen this route. You didn't do that. Instead you attacked and attempted to discredit any claim against your class with the old, and very worn L2P.Now I am not saying the Ranger community is the only community of players within EQ2 that remain silent in light of the fact their class is overpowered. I myself played a SK. When Reaver healed 2% I knew it was overpowered. When the Signet of Light and Darkness healed 1k and dealt 1k dmg I knew that too was overpowered. I did not ask for them to be nerfed. I did as the Ranger community did and enjoyed the pot while it was sweet. That being said I did not come to the forums exclaiming a witch hunt when these items were nerfed. I remained silent as I had done before the nerfs.If you guys want to be vocal why do so by attacking all the classes you were formerly destroying in seconds? Asking for Focus Aim to be reinstated at a lesser potency is enough. You guys brought enough frustration and grief on players of other classes with it in your arsenal. Using its removal as a means to punish other players for an act of balancing that was sorely over due is a complete lack of tact is going to array anyone outside the ranger community against you. Do you really want other player's responding to your pleas to SOE with reasons why rangers should not be given back Focus Aim? It will happen a lot more if you try and drag everyone down with you.Just my 2CP</blockquote><p>Its funny that someone would say that playing your class is an exploit.  If that is the case, then manashield would be an exploit.  FD would be an exploit.  Pre-combat heals would be an exploit.  Etc., etc., etc.</p><p>Its playing your class, using what has been given to you.  Yes, I agree that it is a rare individual indeed that would come to the forums and ask for something on  their character to be nerfed.  Not so rare however, is those rangers who have asked for other classes to be boosted, ie. necromancers in t7.  Even rangers admitted that this class needs some type of defense to increase their survival.  Instead of SOE trying to help Necros though, they decide to fix this  with an ambush REMOVAL of a ranger buff!</p><p>Outside of the ranger community, who exactly can rangers depend on to defend them?  We certainly tried defending ouselves when others would exxaggerate or simply make up outrageous stories of how overpowered rangers are.  I'm not saying all stories are false, but too many were.</p><p>The good news for anti-rangers is that their methods succeeded.</p><p>Now, trying to continue asking for other classes to be given more to make them better has been proven by SOE to be a nonviable solution, with no hope of success.  If you need more proof of this, just check to see how many topics in the class forums where players asking for their class to be boosted actually see results. (Dirge, Necromancer, Coercer forums, to name a few).</p><p>Another example is the fact that even now, right after this removal of one of a ranger's primary buffs, another campaign has already begun to cry for removal of two more scout abilities, track and evac.  </p><p>And FYI, exactly how does your post of asking for the removal of the ranger class, even in jest, help improve anything besides your post count?  Yes, I realize you are joking, but there are people who actually love to see posts like these, because it helps color the general impression of scouts=bad.</p><p>Back on topic.</p><p>Manashield is still OP.  SOE, please continue your track record of removing OP abilities from PvP.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, it is using your class and what has been given to you. That is exactly what constitutes an exploit; using something to your advantage whether it is fair, or it is unfair and selfish. Using an overpowered class, as was the case with rangers, was unfair (I won't go as far as to say selfish, it is simply the class you enjoy playing) in the same manner as a player exploiting the SK's harmtouch to one shot people and zone away to safety. It's not your fault that through simple use of the ranger's tools an unfair situation was created for your foes. That is SOE's fault, and it is their mess to clean up. That said though, it's up to you rangers to let SOE know what is true or not about rangers. Admitting your faults (the fact you were overpowered and why you were overpowered) is the best way to reveal what is actually true. It's too late for that now, however, you guys left it to someone else's understanding and now you must deal with it. </p><p>Rangers with buffed in-combat runspeed and DPS were that exploitative (is that even a word?)SK every minute and a half. The ranger's lost their speed and DPS, likewise the SK's harmtouch was nerfed. All the aforementioned are potentially as lethal as their former power pre-nerf, however, the player must adapt them to a new method in order to yield such lethality. As with the direction of nerfs, we hope these new ways will stay the course of balance and produce a playingfield that is fair to everyone. </p><p>But fairness and balance I suspect are not two things many ranger's have gleaned from experience before this nerf.You guys have dues to pay before anyone will accept that you know what it means to ask for balance. </p><p>I do agree with you Harry and every other ranger that has said SOE should have gone about it a better way. </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ekeleferal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ekeleferal wrote:</cite><blockquote>The ranger community did not ask to be balanced (or for other classes to be balanced) when they were handing everyone their butts in seconds. Now we are supposed to feel sorry for this very same community whom exploited their overpowered characters to no end?Don't be surprised that most players here are not only glad you were nerfed but are rubbing your noses in it. Had you come to the forums with posts like "PLEASE SOE, my class is overpowered and needs balancing" I am doubtless everyone on this forum would crusade with you had SOE still chosen this route. You didn't do that. Instead you attacked and attempted to discredit any claim against your class with the old, and very worn L2P.Now I am not saying the Ranger community is the only community of players within EQ2 that remain silent in light of the fact their class is overpowered. I myself played a SK. When Reaver healed 2% I knew it was overpowered. When the Signet of Light and Darkness healed 1k and dealt 1k dmg I knew that too was overpowered. I did not ask for them to be nerfed. I did as the Ranger community did and enjoyed the pot while it was sweet. That being said I did not come to the forums exclaiming a witch hunt when these items were nerfed. I remained silent as I had done before the nerfs.If you guys want to be vocal why do so by attacking all the classes you were formerly destroying in seconds? Asking for Focus Aim to be reinstated at a lesser potency is enough. You guys brought enough frustration and grief on players of other classes with it in your arsenal. Using its removal as a means to punish other players for an act of balancing that was sorely over due is a complete lack of tact is going to array anyone outside the ranger community against you. Do you really want other player's responding to your pleas to SOE with reasons why rangers should not be given back Focus Aim? It will happen a lot more if you try and drag everyone down with you.Just my 2CP</blockquote><p>Its funny that someone would say that playing your class is an exploit.  If that is the case, then manashield would be an exploit.  FD would be an exploit.  Pre-combat heals would be an exploit.  Etc., etc., etc.</p><p>Its playing your class, using what has been given to you.  Yes, I agree that it is a rare individual indeed that would come to the forums and ask for something on  their character to be nerfed.  Not so rare however, is those rangers who have asked for other classes to be boosted, ie. necromancers in t7.  Even rangers admitted that this class needs some type of defense to increase their survival.  Instead of SOE trying to help Necros though, they decide to fix this  with an ambush REMOVAL of a ranger buff!</p><p>Outside of the ranger community, who exactly can rangers depend on to defend them?  We certainly tried defending ouselves when others would exxaggerate or simply make up outrageous stories of how overpowered rangers are.  I'm not saying all stories are false, but too many were.</p><p>The good news for anti-rangers is that their methods succeeded.</p><p>Now, trying to continue asking for other classes to be given more to make them better has been proven by SOE to be a nonviable solution, with no hope of success.  If you need more proof of this, just check to see how many topics in the class forums where players asking for their class to be boosted actually see results. (Dirge, Necromancer, Coercer forums, to name a few).</p><p>Another example is the fact that even now, right after this removal of one of a ranger's primary buffs, another campaign has already begun to cry for removal of two more scout abilities, track and evac.  </p><p>And FYI, exactly how does your post of asking for the removal of the ranger class, even in jest, help improve anything besides your post count?  Yes, I realize you are joking, but there are people who actually love to see posts like these, because it helps color the general impression of scouts=bad.</p><p>Back on topic.</p><p>Manashield is still OP.  SOE, please continue your track record of removing OP abilities from PvP.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, it is using your class and what has been given to you. That is exactly what constitutes an exploit; using something to your advantage whether it is fair, or it is unfair and selfish. Using an overpowered class, as was the case with rangers, was unfair (I won't go as far as to say selfish, it is simply the class you enjoy playing) in the same manner as a player exploiting the SK's harmtouch to one shot people and zone away to safety. It's not your fault that through simple use of the ranger's tools an unfair situation was created for your foes. That is SOE's fault, and it is their mess to clean up. That said though, it's up to you rangers to let SOE know what is true or not about rangers. Admitting your faults (the fact you were overpowered and why you were overpowered) is the best way to reveal what is actually true. It's too late for that now, however, you guys left it to someone else's understanding and now you must deal with it. </p><p>Rangers with buffed in-combat runspeed and DPS were that exploitative (is that even a word?)SK every minute and a half. The ranger's lost their speed and DPS, likewise the SK's harmtouch was nerfed. All the aforementioned are potentially as lethal as their former power pre-nerf, however, the player must adapt them to a new method in order to yield such lethality. As with the direction of nerfs, we hope these new ways will stay the course of balance and produce a playingfield that is fair to everyone. </p><p>But fairness and balance I suspect are not two things many ranger's have gleaned from experience before this nerf.You guys have dues to pay before anyone will accept that you know what it means to ask for balance. </p><p>I do agree with you Harry and every other ranger that has said SOE should have gone about it a better way. </p></blockquote><p>You know, exploit also means to perform a notable or heroic deed.</p><p>Here in the forums though, its usually meant as an insult, or derogatory slant.  I guess this means that all classes that were ever overpowered should have immediately stopped playing their toons in a mass protest until things were changed.</p><p>Somehow, I don't ever see that happening.</p><p>As for balance, hey, I'm all for it, its why I say Manashield is now OP after LU40.  Balance infers that the scales are even, not tilted.  </p><p>Dues?  I pay my monthly prescription, like everyone else.  This doesn't have anything remotely to do with blancing classes ingame.  When SOE starts paying me to be responsible for this, then we can have that discussion.</p>

[Scatimus]

<cite>Roto@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With ROK, Rangers lost their primary combat buff in PVP, Focus Aim.  Devs decided with no warning or notice to make this unusable for PvP combat.  In order to address this new imbalance, all other classes should also lose there similar abilities.</p><p>No more inspiritaion for Swashies.</p><p>No more thugs for Brigands.</p><p>ETC., etc,. etc.</p><p>If your class gets any type of temporary combat buff or ability that can increase your chances to win it should be disabled in Pvp combat.</p><p>Why should any class get treated with such disregard as rangers do?</p><p>Balance.</p><p>Or would it be too difficult for everyone to join in and ask for Rangers to receive their Focus Aim ability back?</p></blockquote>hahahahahahahaha.  now that the ranger take a nerf the tears begin.  when the casters were being killed in litterally 3 seconds by a ranger it was all, learn to play and that is how it should be.  but when they rangers are the ones who get a nerf, its all about nerfing every other class because you are not that strong anymore. wee maybe the rangers should learn to play.

[Vlahkmaak]

Actually its well past time FOCUS AIM (older version focus aim) has been removed form combat.  I think I first called for tis well over a year ago on my ranger for the simple fact that it is a predator ability but assassins DO NOT get a similiar ability.  Rangers can already maximize thier hit potential and ranged crit chance.  Focus aim on top of the AGI line really made us overpowered.  We can still deal out substantial DPS without focus aim.  Focus aim was almost a guarentee that I could drop several bow hits on my target BEFORE they knew I was there as it could be cast in stealth and SUBSTANTIALLY improve my hit ability beyond the point most classes could recover.  Focus aim was almost a guarenteed ahsswhooping for casters and critical dmage to other classes.   Focus aim needs to go.  Tracking and evac does not however, I belive scout DEAGGROS need to go.  Scouts can learn to manage their aggro like casters.  Summoners for instance, get no deagggros.  Sorcerers get one but I am unsure how they work in pvp as I do not play a sorcerer.  the ability of a scout to deagrro soeon onto a mob is ridiculous.  Its bad enough it forces target to clear selected target their is no reason target should engage nearest NPC or PC.  Deaggros, especially deaggro poisons, need to go.  At best scouts should get 1 deaggro for pvp with a 30 sec recast.  De-aggro poisons can remain for pve but should not work in pvp.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Obin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually its well past time FOCUS AIM (older version focus aim) has been removed form combat.  I think I first called for tis well over a year ago on my ranger for the simple fact that it is a predator ability but assassins DO NOT get a similiar ability.  Rangers can already maximize thier hit potential and ranged crit chance.  Focus aim on top of the AGI line really made us overpowered.  We can still deal out substantial DPS without focus aim.  Focus aim was almost a guarentee that I could drop several bow hits on my target BEFORE they knew I was there as it could be cast in stealth and SUBSTANTIALLY improve my hit ability beyond the point most classes could recover.  Focus aim was almost a guarenteed ahsswhooping for casters and critical dmage to other classes.   Focus aim needs to go.  Tracking and evac does not however, I belive scout DEAGGROS need to go.  Scouts can learn to manage their aggro like casters.  Summoners for instance, get no deagggros.  Sorcerers get one but I am unsure how they work in pvp as I do not play a sorcerer.  the ability of a scout to deagrro soeon onto a mob is ridiculous.  Its bad enough it forces target to clear selected target their is no reason target should engage nearest NPC or PC.  Deaggros, especially deaggro poisons, need to go.  At best scouts should get 1 deaggro for pvp with a 30 sec recast.  De-aggro poisons can remain for pve but should not work in pvp.</blockquote><p>Explain how to use deaggro poison to make you engage a mob? You yourself is to blame if you attack a mob when your target has been cleared by a deaggro.</p><p>The complaints are getting out of hand. Show some restraint.</p><p>... and define maximize.</p>

[Necodem]

<p>funny thread BTH !</p><p>so my turn !</p><p>Let's go back to time and put back double atk that affect both melee and bow, so I'll beat rangers with my bow as a zerk !!!</p><p>And give us back the full effect of your 30min recast prevent death ! ( 2%/s for 5s is a joke ! give us back 8%/s !! )</p><p>And give berserkers a snare or while in rage immune to snare !</p>

[voxranger]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><u>Here, some ranger facts for dummies:</u>In combat run speed is <b>not </b>faster than anyone else's. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Good!, learn to sprint like you tell everyone else to.</span>In combat sprint speed is <b>not</b> faster than anyone else's. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Hopefully, but we don't get a 45m head start either.</span>Ranger out of combar run speed is not the highest in the game but it sure is faster than your in-combat run speed (gosh!). <span style="color: #3366ff;">DUH!</span>Focus aim <b>cancels </b>on initating pvp combat (i.e. you can <b>not </b>pre-cast it). <span style="color: #3366ff;">what else was making rangers crit 100%</span>Ranger CA's do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Good!</span>Ranger autoattack do <b>not </b>hit for a ton anymore because focus aim has been taken out. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Better</span>Ranger attacks do <b>not </b>almost never miss because focus aim was taken out: <span style="color: #3366ff;">Almost never? more like never seen a miss.</span>Most rangers will have around 25% ranged crit with AAs so once in a blue moon you will get burned into the ground (if you're squishy enough). <span style="color: #3366ff;">Much better!</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;"> How's it feel to be average? Now it's time to L2P and depend on skills (maybe), but I expect just more of the same lame tactics rangers have been using since day 1. </span><span style="color: #3366ff;">No more super easy mode for you lame players who make the 2-6 sec kills without risk and evac away. But I'm sure your ranger playing devs and GMs will fix this "nerf" as soon as one of them gets their butt handed to them. Gods forbid their pet class have to play anything average.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffcc;">Anarcheru - 70 Bruiser</span></p></blockquote>Why do i reading people making comments about rangers damage spiking and evacing if they dont get the quick kill - evac is disabled if you attack in pvp.