Brawlers, Warriors, or Crusaders?

[Vankrooger]

<p>Hey guys, I'm looking for a tank class that is best able to tank in groups but is also viable in raids at the level cap.</p><p>From my limited knowledge of the tanks in this game, the Berserkers are the best group tanks and the Guardians are the best raid tanks. The Brawlers are the best DPS tanks. The Crusaders are the best utility tanks.</p><p>Where do the Brawlers and Crusaders and even Berserkers come in when it comes to raid viability? </p><p>I ask this because I am in conflict on whether to roll a Bruiser, Berserker, Shadowknigt, or Guardian. How well do these classes do in raids? In groups? </p><p>If possible please keep the responses bias-free, I know this is the Berserker boards so I'm probably going to get an answer from the eyes of one.</p><p>Thanks in advance.</p>

[Junaru]

When it comes to raiding most raid leaders wont even consider a Brawler as tank as all. Any time you hear the RL call all tanks to an area due to a memwipe mob the Brawlers sit with the scouts. In fact I have seen scouts asked to tank (MMIS) but never seen a Brawler asked to tank. This may change for Monk due to the new Peel skill but even then it would only be on this or that mob never a raid tank.With RoK out now Guardians just got a whole lot stronger with the added 40 AA's.If I were to roll another fighter class I would roll a Guardian.

[Vankrooger]

<p>Hmmm...</p><p>So how are crusaders compared to Berserkers?</p>

[Xita]

<p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p>

[Vankrooger]

<cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>OK so in terms of overall tanks:</p><p>Guardian > Berserker > Monk > Bruiser > Crusaders?</p>

[Zeuhl]

<cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>OK so in terms of overall tanks:</p><p>Guardian > Berserker > Monk > Bruiser > Crusaders?</p></blockquote>If you're talking about raiding put your crusaders before brawlers.

[Vankrooger]

<cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>OK so in terms of overall tanks:</p><p>Guardian > Berserker > Monk > Bruiser > Crusaders?</p></blockquote>If you're talking about raiding put your crusaders before brawlers.</blockquote><p>Wow, you sure? You'd think the Brawler's higher DPS and group damage/haste buffs would make them a little more viable.</p>

[Wargurine]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>When it comes to raiding most raid leaders wont even consider a Brawler as tank as all. Any time you hear the RL call all tanks to an area due to a memwipe mob the Brawlers sit with the scouts. In fact I have seen scouts asked to tank (MMIS) but never seen a Brawler asked to tank. This may change for Monk due to the new Peel skill but even then it would only be on this or that mob never a raid tank.With RoK out now Guardians just got a whole lot stronger with the added 40 AA's.If I were to roll another fighter class I would roll a Guardian.</blockquote>Scouts tank in MMIS because the Armor is immune to fighter taunts, but scout taunts still work. If you have never seen a brawler raid tank, you haven't done the 3 princes (yeah yeah, kos is old news now, but its still there), you have to have a tank of each archetype for that mob. Many guilds used to use brawlers to tank MO too. Just because some guilds don't utilize their players effectively doesn't mean all guilds won't <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tt66]

<cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>OK so in terms of overall tanks:</p><p>Guardian > Berserker > Monk > Bruiser > Crusaders?</p></blockquote>If you're talking about raiding put your crusaders before brawlers.</blockquote><p>Wow, you sure? You'd think the Brawler's higher DPS and group damage/haste buffs would make them a little more viable.</p></blockquote>In terms of raid tanking, then yeah Brawlers are pretty much bottom of the pile. The way avoidance works means that plate-heads with a shield on are just better equipped to take a hit from a raid mob than a brawler.If you're talking about raid <b>utility</b> then is gets a bit fuzzier and there isn't a great deal in it. Brawlers have better raid buffs, Paladins have amends, SKs have nice caster buffs. Brawler DPS means that a brawler is probably one of the better fighter choices if you already have two plate-heads for MT/OT duty. But there are a lot of raids out there that only go with two fighter spots.

[Zeuhl]

Yes I thought you were talking strictly from a tanking perspective where a crusader is a better choice than a brawler. If you mean getting into a raid you can use any of the classes just like the other posters here have indicated.

[Vankrooger]

<p>I have a few questions pertaining to DPS.</p><p>1: How do Berserkers compare in DPS with other fighters, both against single target and multiple targets? </p><p>I assume that they fall in 3rd against single targets (behind bruiser and monk) and first among multiple targets.</p><p>2: How do they compare in DPS against the scouts and mages both single target and multiple targets? I assume they are out DPS'd by everyone except Bards and Enchanters?</p><p>3: How do they compare in 1-80 solo grinding against other fighters? </p><p>I assume they're at the bottom of the barrel in this category.</p><p>4: A question about CAs, what does 40% easier, 20% harder under resistability mean? Does easier mean it's 40% easier to land or 40% easier to get resisted?</p><p>Thanks in advance.</p>

[Babban_McHabban]

<cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes I thought you were talking strictly from a tanking perspective where a crusader is a better choice than a brawler. If you mean getting into a raid you can use any of the classes just like the other posters here have indicated.</blockquote><p>Looking for a raid and i have a 70 sk berserker and bruiser and i get told to bring the bruiser everytime.  Seems people dont look at serkers as dps and tell me O we already have a tank but bring the bruiser for dps. </p><p> Pre RoK people said SK what?  lol  Post RoK that will remain to be seen.</p>

[Xita]

<cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>sorry should have included brawlers for raid tanking.</p><p>If a crusader is a yugo, then a brawler is a tricycle...</p>

[Zeuhl]

<cite>Babban_McHabban wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes I thought you were talking strictly from a tanking perspective where a crusader is a better choice than a brawler. If you mean getting into a raid you can use any of the classes just like the other posters here have indicated.</blockquote><p>Looking for a raid and i have a 70 sk berserker and bruiser and i get told to bring the bruiser everytime.  Seems people dont look at serkers as dps and tell me O we already have a tank but bring the bruiser for dps. </p><p> Pre RoK people said SK what?  lol  Post RoK that will remain to be seen.</p></blockquote>Bah unless the brawler is fully fabled (which my zerker isn't) I've never been passed over for a brawler. I mean seriously I've never been out dps'd by a similar geared tank class. EVER.

[rabid.pooh]

<cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>crusaders compare to berserkers like a yugo compares to a rolls royce.</p></blockquote><p>sorry should have included brawlers for raid tanking.</p><p>If a crusader is a yugo, then a brawler is a tricycle...</p></blockquote><p>I was grinding a zerker to potentially replace my SK as a main, however the 80th level SK spell is one of the better abilities out there.  Also after ROK and the 40aa thing, really if your going to be a warrior you should just be a guardian.  Sorry but the guardian is a rolls royce the zerker is just a gremlin driving infront of the Sks Ugo, but lets see what impact the 80th level spells have on raiding maybe SOE gave these two junker classes a turbo charge.</p>

[Vankrooger]

<cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Babban_McHabban wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zeuhl@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes I thought you were talking strictly from a tanking perspective where a crusader is a better choice than a brawler. If you mean getting into a raid you can use any of the classes just like the other posters here have indicated.</blockquote><p>Looking for a raid and i have a 70 sk berserker and bruiser and i get told to bring the bruiser everytime.  Seems people dont look at serkers as dps and tell me O we already have a tank but bring the bruiser for dps. </p><p> Pre RoK people said SK what?  lol  Post RoK that will remain to be seen.</p></blockquote>Bah unless the brawler is fully fabled (which my zerker isn't) I've never been passed over for a brawler. I mean seriously I've never been out dps'd by a similar geared tank class. EVER.</blockquote><p>Is this on single target encounters too? Brawlers are generally better at DPS than other fights on 1 target encounters. They have more/better single target abilities than us.</p>

[knightofround]

<cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Hey guys, I'm looking for a tank class that is best able to tank in groups but is also viable in raids at the level cap.</p></blockquote>What you are looking for really does not exist. If you are a new player, you will never find a solid spot in a raid as a tank class. This is because an ideal raid has only 2-3 tanks maximum, and can often run well with just one. And those spots are usually taken up by people who have been around alot longer and geareed up far better than you'll have the opportunity to.Now, for both single group content and raid content, any of the tank classes can do just fine. However, brawlers have a stigma that they simply can't tank, so many don't even bother trying. Its just that: a stigma, but it can be overcome. You can set up your own groups with yourself as a tank.That being said, in single group content crusaders are better than warriors. Single groups is all about killing as fast as you can, and that means you want tanks with good AE aggro control. And crusaders have far more AEs and AE snap tools than warriors do. For the same reason, crusaders make better OTs in raids than guardians.Now, on the flip side, guardians are better as MTs because they have many survivability and single-target aggro control abilities that berserkers and crusaders don't.Zerkers are really halfway between being crusaders, being really good for single groups and OTing, and guardians, which are good for MTing.My recommendation? Make a brawler. You'll be able to tank single group instances just fine, and you'll find it much easier to get into a raid as a brawler than other plate tanks. Not because brawlers are better than other tanks in raids, but because alot of leather/monk weapon stuff drops that will rot unless you have someone there to pick it up.

[Splor]

I'll recommend a brawler.I play a bruiser, I've been MT, and in the expansion I've already seen an item that bridges the gap that separates the brawlers from plates, and thats uncontested avoidance(due to the plate classes having a shield). Theres a new 2-Hander that gives 15% uncontested dodge. that + brawler stance = enough avoidance to live. Get some Mit adornments or some parry % adornments, and some Mit buff healers and your good to go as a tank.In fights of up to 4 mobs, brawlers can very rarely be beat for aggro. I've already been doing the instances in RoK and I'm not having a problem at all with people parsing 2000-4000 per battle. And although Divide and Conquer is probably useless in a raid, and seems to not be working properly in groups either, its still an effect encounter taunt on the pull :/