Hibernation - why is reduced delay a bad thing

[Agnar D'Shar]

<p>I read that the fury fabled (I think) armor set can reduce hibernation delay by 5 seconds, and that some furies are not happy with that.</p><p>Why is this a bad thing? Does the reduced delay not bring hibernation closed to a group insta-heal? Sounds good to me...</p><p>Or is there some subtelty about chain casting the other heals up front, such that hibernate activates after all those are done, as long as it is on a 10 sec delay?</p>

[DarumaRanger]

<p>Not sure about anyone else... but I use Hibernate on the pull.</p><p>Hib up, send in pet.... er... TANK... for pull... and by the time he/she gets back and has begun to take a beating... Hib goes off.</p><p>I also put 5 AA points into the AA that allows it to proc if anyone goes to 15% HP... by reducing the trigger to 5 seconds from 10 seconds... <shrugs>... makes me wonder if those points are wasted now, (yes I know I can respec... that's not the point I'm making though).</p><p>Considering I have yet to raid, and even if I do find the time to raid occasionally with my guild... I think there are at least 2, if not 3, Furies in my guild who raid more regularly so I wouldn't roll against them on any given piece anyway... so basically they have to be fully kitted out before I will be... so it probably won't affect me.</p><p>Just my 2cp on it.  Even if I could get it... I doubt I'd use it because of the way I use Hiberante... reducing the trigger time to 5 secs would screw up my playstyle.</p>

[quetzaqotl]

<p>the 10 sec delay is also nice when ae's are called in raids to precast it just in time 5 secs makes the window for it landing when needed much smaller.</p><p>Or casting it when you know a stun/stiffle is inc.</p><p>Or casting it while being stunned by one of our 3 fine self-stun spells, so your group stays safe for a little while at least.</p><p>I mostly like hibernation and its delay of 10 secs for casting when an ae is called Im sure I could adjust to 5 secs but thats not the point all set bonusses should be a bonus not a penalty as why would anyone want to wear them I dont need another straight (almost insta) group heal I can get my grp up fast enough so I wonder why SOE thinks this would make us so happy Id be happier with them adding to our duration on our grp regen or take off 1 conc from one of our spells (primal spirit would be nice) which was the bonus before if Im correct.</p>

[Catsy]

The entire point of Hibernation--the thing that makes it useful, and fills a role that no other spell of ours can--is the delay. It is used so that a heal can land when we are otherwise unable to cast, or to free us up for doing something else. With the early trigger AA, it also functions as an always-up emergency reactive heal, since its recast is equal to its duration. I use it before pulls so that I can spend the first few seconds of the fight debuffing and getting set up. I use it before stun AOEs such as Furious Storm. I use it before Animal Form, so that a heal will proc for the group while I'm stifled. I use it before I put in my AOE blocker so that the group can get healed if necessary while I'm stunned. When soloing, I use it after my HOT and before CoS so that Hiber procs just as my HOT is running out, giving me at least ten seconds of healing while I'm stunned by CoS.In nearly all of these cases, it is critical that Hibernation run the full ten seconds. While I'm sure reducing the duration seemed like a good idea to some dev who didn't know how this class is played, in actuality it very nearly ruins the spell. Most of these uses either call for Hiber to be cast before casting another spell that will incapacitate us, or require good timing in order to have Hiber go off after the event you're waiting for (e.g. stun AOE or pull). Reducing the duration makes it harder to land Hiber at the right time, makes it harder to cast it before the pull and still have it go off afterward, and makes it so that you have less time, not more, in which you can be incapacitated and still count on a heal going off.This "bonus" is bad in every conceivable respect. This isn't a matter of opinion, this isn't a question of just having an underpowered or underwhelming bonus. This is an effect which ruins one of our most unique and useful spells. No fury who really understands how to play their class to its potential is ever going to wear more than two pieces of this set.I'm still mystified as to why this piece of crap was allowed to go live.

[Vegaxe]

<cite>QFE!!!  Please either fix the reduction, or just flat out remove it.  I would rather have nothing, then something that is basically a penalty.  Fury do not have wards, reactives, etc... hibernation is our one hear that acts as a preventive type spell, dont take that away from us.Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The entire point of Hibernation--the thing that makes it useful, and fills a role that no other spell of ours can--is the delay. It is used so that a heal can land when we are otherwise unable to cast, or to free us up for doing something else. With the early trigger AA, it also functions as an always-up emergency reactive heal, since its recast is equal to its duration. I use it before pulls so that I can spend the first few seconds of the fight debuffing and getting set up. I use it before stun AOEs such as Furious Storm. I use it before Animal Form, so that a heal will proc for the group while I'm stifled. I use it before I put in my AOE blocker so that the group can get healed if necessary while I'm stunned. When soloing, I use it after my HOT and before CoS so that Hiber procs just as my HOT is running out, giving me at least ten seconds of healing while I'm stunned by CoS.In nearly all of these cases, it is critical that Hibernation run the full ten seconds. While I'm sure reducing the duration seemed like a good idea to some dev who didn't know how this class is played, in actuality it very nearly ruins the spell. Most of these uses either call for Hiber to be cast before casting another spell that will incapacitate us, or require good timing in order to have Hiber go off after the event you're waiting for (e.g. stun AOE or pull). Reducing the duration makes it harder to land Hiber at the right time, makes it harder to cast it before the pull and still have it go off afterward, and makes it so that you have less time, not more, in which you can be incapacitated and still count on a heal going off.This "bonus" is bad in every conceivable respect. This isn't a matter of opinion, this isn't a question of just having an underpowered or underwhelming bonus. This is an effect which ruins one of our most unique and useful spells. No fury who really understands how to play their class to its potential is ever going to wear more than two pieces of this set.I'm still mystified as to why this piece of crap was allowed to go live.</blockquote>

[Anastasie]

Those of us that were in beta posted repeatedly begging the devs to remove this <strike>bonus </strike>nerf.  We gave suggestions for reasonable alternatives as well. This really does severly limit the usefulness of one of our most unique heals. If the set does end up in the live game with the Hibernation focus, I certainly will not want more than the BP and Legs. It really is unfortunate because the rest of the set does have really good stats and a few nice bonuses. The 5 and 7 piece bonuses are really nothing to get excited over, so it's not a huge loss, but it's very disappointing.

[Faelia]

Sounds like a good addition to our level 80 spell - Lame Ball <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Catsy]

Eh, I actually like BL now that they've changed it to follow the fury around rather than wandering off into adds or geometry. I'm looking forward to adding it to my repertoire of fire-and-forget stuff to add DPS while I'm casting other things.But this Hiber duration reduction is a big plate of BS and chips.

[Radigazt]

<p>I'd like to echo what everyone else has said .. shortening the delay of Hibernation is a nerf, not a buff, and as a result, I will likely not wear more than 2 pieces of the gear.  Sad, but true.  </p><p>I'm on a PvP server, and for me at the first sign of trouble, or just as we entre combat, I can hit Hibernation and know that by the time we get an alpha strike it'll be healing.  I'm probably going to follow Hibernation with a group HoT, so I can really pump out the heals when the group really needs it--when we're receiving the opposing group's alpha-strikes.  Then, when things settle down I'll go energy vortex and nuke like hell, but I can always hit Hibernation just before doing so.  Yeah, the heal is halved, but it's better than nothing and it happens while I'm nuking away.  </p><p>With this new set-piece <strike>bonus</strike> nerf I can't really get the healing while I'm nuking, meaning I'm back to basically either healing OR nuking, and I can't time things so that I get the effectiveness of my nukes while still putting out half-strength heals at crucial times.  Personally, this is a huge nerf to a very very effective PvP spell.  I'm disappointed the Devs did this, but make no mistake, it's a nerf not a bonus.  I'm going to have to opt-out of this nerf by avoiding ever getting the set <strike>bonus</strike> nerf.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As for Ball of Lightning, I can't really say as I haven't used it yet.  But, I like the concept of a pet that follows us around doing damage while we do other things.  Considering all of the other Priests got pet-like level 80 spells, this one seems to be thematically just what we should receive.  As for the DPS it puts out, I'll reserve judgement on that until I test it thoroughly.  Wardens got a dumbfire healing pet--awesome--and we got a dumbfire DPS, that seems fair to me.  Of course, the devil is in the details, so until we know the numbers, it's all speculation.  </p>

[Faelia]

The biggest change I'd like to see to our class is to allow us to use fray on ourselves.  Never did understand why you can't.  Maybe a re-use timer reduction on the de-agro line instead of the hibernation change would have been better.Doesn't Lame Ball following you around just make it very situational for times when you need to avoid aes though?  Sucks to have our final skill be a situational dps if you ask me.

[sokil]

I agree the delay is very usefull. I would rather have seen an aa that increases the heal amount or at least give us an upgraded spell or a master 1. I have other group heals that are fast so hibernation is needed when I am mezed or otherwise occupied.

[WasFycksir]

<p>Back in the day when I played my PVE fury on Mistmoore I remember getting all excited when the first set of AA's went in.  The HOT duration reduction looked awesome....on paper.  But in actual use it ended up like what you guys are speaking about here.  Instead of a nice feed of HP keeping the tank full, many of the ticks just went wasted.</p><p>Yes I know the idea is to keep the tank at full HP, but like here it was a timing thing.  The quicker heals also had aggro issues for a while too iirc.</p>

[Ember]

I am going to have to agree with many of the posters.  Hibernation was one of those spells that was unique and required a bit of timing.  I liked it how it was and the AA to have it trigger sooner if people were getting too low was a nice AA line.This kind of removes that uniqueness of the spell. I did however hear that there were going to be multiple options on sets out there.  Perhaps there is another set that will fill my needs a little more.

[Radigazt]

<cite>Faelia wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest change I'd like to see to our class is to allow us to use fray on ourselves.  Never did understand why you can't.  Maybe a re-use timer reduction on the de-agro line instead of the hibernation change would have been better.Doesn't Lame Ball following you around just make it very situational for times when you need to avoid aes though?  Sucks to have our final skill be a situational dps if you ask me.</blockquote><p>Yes that would be a good change, particularly when they're trying to cut down on our number of hotkeys, it's kinda silly to require 2 hotkeys for essentially 1 timer.  </p><p>I always expected an AA line would address that, and wondered why it wasn't in the EoF Fury tree, it just makes sense to me.  </p><p>As for Hibernation, like I said before, I'd be much happier with the 10 second delay compared to the 5 second delay.  It would be nice if you could elect NOT to use that set bonus.  </p>

[spyderinlv]

<span style="font-size: x-small;">The best thing about hibernate was what the others wrote, I am a raiding fury and when an AE is called in raid, especially one that stifles or stuns, Hibernate is FTW.  I cast my Group HoT and then hibernate which a relatively fast cast and the group hot will tick a couple times then Hibernate will pop and if the group isn't at least 75%, they will be shortly when i cast Untamed Shroud.  It is a really useful spell, just because if cast at the 5 sec call to AE and a one sec cast means you have approximately 6 secs after the AE is supposed to hit for any short delay on the AE actually hitting.  I can't say how many times the mage grouphas said nice healing after a raid mob is down, because they get hit, go into the orange or red (depending on their gear) and the next thing they know they are in the green and back at full health.  Makes a big difference in raids and soloing imo.  This needs to be removed or i will not be wearing anything except maybe the chest, legs and/or helmet depending on the situation, but i will not be wearing the full set unless soloing.  5 secs is just a NERF to one of the best spells for furies.</span>