Recapture Vs. Bloodletter Vs. Adrenaline

[Raahl]

<p>Here are the level 80 Guardian/SK/Zerker abilities.</p><p><b><hr />Guardian</b></p><i>Recapture (lvl 80)</i>Recapture increases the hate position of all your fighter allies against your enemies.Target:     EnemyRecast:     30sEffects:-Increases the hate position of all your fighter allies that are hated by every enemy in target encounter <p><b><hr />Shadowknight</b></p><i>Bloodletter (lvl 80)</i>Bloodletter allows a Shadowknight to prevent death by sacrificing some health across all your allies to restore you to full health. Allies can remove this effect if they don't want to participate. However you must have more than 1 ally for the skill to succesfully work. Upgrades improve the efficiency of the donor amount.Target:     Raid (AE)Recast:     3minDuration:     Untill CancelledEffects:-When target dies this spell will cast Bloodletter on target    -Heals caster for 100% of max health    -Grants total of 1 trigger of the spell-This effect cannot be cast during fight <p><b><hr />Berzerker</b></p><i>Adrenaline (lvl 80)</i>Adrenaline numbs you to pain, causing all dmg received to be cut in half. Adrenaline can only be used while berzerk and when it ends, your power is reduced and you are unable to go berzerk for a short while.Target:     SelfRecast:     2minDuration:     24sEffects:-Applies lost adrenaline on termination. Lasts for 30s    -Decreases power of caster by 50%    -Decreases power of caster by 5% every 3 seconds-50% of all dmg received by the caster is prevented-Adrenaline can only be used while berzerk <hr />  <p>Now is it me or did we seriously get the short end of the stick here.  The SK/Zerker ability makes them IMO a better MT tank, by giving them better survivability.  While the Guardian one only increases the hate of OT's in the likelyhood of our death.</p><p>Am I totally off on this?  Am I missing some important part of the abilities that says different.  To me this seems to totally imbalance the tanking balance.  </p><p>Guardians, does this make us the new must have OT?  Just spam the ability and the Zerker/SK MT will never lose hate?</p><p>The Zerker one is every 2 minutes for 24 seconds, but the SK is Until Cancelled!  Does it triggering cancel it?  </p>

[Rob626]

It looks like it is another Rescue like ability only for all critters that have hate towards us. Looks like it is a solid addition to Reinforcement + Dragoon Spin. Critter just mem-wiped again. Reinforcement, Rescue, are down... slap the critter once, hit Recapture. Boom, mob is back on you and the other tank(s) move up the hate list too. I think this will also add to (wishful thinking) the possibility of having two Guardians in the same raid or letting the Guardian occupy the OT spot now and again. Solidifies the hate every 30 sec. The other tank class skills are pretty cool...no doubt. But I think that since our main job is hate control what better skill could we get? It plants us solidly on the hate list every time. No more freaking out about multi encounters breaking to the over-nuking Warlock. Majo, Shadow Guard, 70 Guard of Venekor

[Raahl]

<p>[Edit] - Removed comment on a delete post.</p><p>Rob626 - Thanks for the reply.  But where does it say that it increases the Guardian's hate?   From reading it, the guardian casting the spell gets no benefit from it, just his fighter allies.  If anything this may make it tougher for us to hold aggro from the OT's.  Especially if we spam it every 30s.</p><p>Any SK's out there know if their ability gets cancelled after it goes off?  That would basically make it a once every 3 minutes ability?</p>

[Kulleras_Ogre]

My understanding from the SK discussion threads is that the buff procs once and then must be recast, unless you have full RoK gear which gives you two procs as a set bonus. I would assume that the recast timer would start once the buff dropped but I'm not 100% on that as I have not actually used it.

[Raahl]

<cite>Kulleras@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>My understanding from the SK discussion threads is that the buff procs once and then must be recast, unless you have full RoK gear which gives you two procs as a set bonus. I would assume that the recast timer would start once the buff dropped but I'm not 100% on that as I have not actually used it.</blockquote>Thanks, that's kind of what I would have expected.  But you never know, Sony's not always the best at getting things right the first time.

[knightofround]

Does recapture increase your own hate position? If so, a 30sec recast mini rescue is insane.I'm not thrilled about Adreneline. With the benefits, the best time to use it is on the pull, but unless you roll with both dirge+coercer in the MT group, you'd be committing suicide for mana.I feel for SKs though. They defintely got the shaft. If the SK "dies" from an AE, they are probably going to a couple of their groupmates as well. Not much point to the SK staying alive if they kill the people buffing them.

[aias]

You forgot to include Holy Ground for Paladins.  Very nice spell.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Raahl]

<cite>knightofround wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does recapture increase your own hate position? If so, a 30sec recast mini rescue is insane.I'm not thrilled about Adreneline. With the benefits, the best time to use it is on the pull, but unless you roll with both dirge+coercer in the MT group, you'd be committing suicide for mana.I feel for SKs though. They defintely got the shaft. If the SK "dies" from an AE, they are probably going to a couple of their groupmates as well. Not much point to the SK staying alive if they kill the people buffing them.</blockquote><p>From reading the desciption of Recapture, it doesn't seem to benefit the Guardian casting it.  Unless the description is wrong.</p><p>Would Adreneline be usefull after you've hit your big aggro getter?  Maybe during a tough spot in the battle?  I'd love to see it in action.</p><p>The health comes from the entire raid.  I cannot see a single AE being deadly enough to eat through around 10k or more health in one shot.  In a 24 man raid 10,000 health split over 23 players is around 434 points each.  Now if the SK uses this in a normal group it's 2k each.  I don't expect that we will see many raid wipes because of this ability.</p>

[Raahl]

<cite>Pandarus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to include Holy Ground for Paladins.  Very nice spell.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yup it is a nice one and I didn't forget it.  I think paladin's needed a lot of love.  If anything they need a little more.

[Junaru]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does recapture increase your own hate position? If so, a 30sec recast mini rescue is insane.I'm not thrilled about Adreneline. With the benefits, the best time to use it is on the pull, but unless you roll with both dirge+coercer in the MT group, you'd be committing suicide for mana.I feel for SKs though. They defintely got the shaft. If the SK "dies" from an AE, they are probably going to a couple of their groupmates as well. Not much point to the SK staying alive if they kill the people buffing them.</blockquote><p>From reading the desciption of Recapture, it doesn't seem to benefit the Guardian casting it.  Unless the description is wrong.</p><p>Would Adreneline be usefull after you've hit your big aggro getter?  Maybe during a tough spot in the battle?  I'd love to see it in action.</p><p>The health comes from the entire raid.  I cannot see a single AE being deadly enough to eat through around 10k or more health in one shot.  In a 24 man raid 10,000 health split over 23 players is around 434 points each.  Now if the SK uses this in a normal group it's 2k each.  I don't expect that we will see many raid wipes because of this ability.</p></blockquote>Well we all know there was AoE's that can do 10 damage quickly enough to make killing off others as something that "could" happen. I agree though it's not likely to happen. The problem with this ability is anyone in your raid can turn it off. If you get enough toons turning it off you could cause some major damage to some key toons if it goes off.I personally think the Guardian ability is a nice one. I've seen it in action and it does work well. Sorry I couldn't tell you if it effected the Guardian or not.One thing I will toss out there is NEVER use this ability when a Monk has used Peel. It will surely raise them to the top of the hate list and break Peel. Peel only works if the Monk is not #1 on the hate list.

[Guldor]

well lets break this spell down into 3 different areas where it can be used.first: soloinglike most taunt spells uselesssecond: groupingyou rarely see 2 fighters (not to mention 2 warriors; happens almost not at all)in groups anyway. and if there are more than 2 fighters the guard is normally tanking.third: raidingwell as a mt i can not see the use of this spell. ok you can bring off tanks to the top of th ehate list. but that is the spot you should be at.as an ot i can see this spell as very usefull. you can help your mt keep the aggro.overall i would say not that good. if it would effect the casting guard too it would be awesome. but this way i can see me use it only when i am ot in a raid.

[Bramwe]

If the MT dies he can cast it when he is rezzed quick for the OT but that is still a limited use for the spell since ideally the OT would be at the top of the hate list anyway.  I agree this definitely looks like a spell made for an OT Guardian in a raid if it doesn't affect the caster.

[TheSpin]

<p>I did not play in beta and I don't know what the future of raiding has in store for us, but what if encounters turned into something that required multiple tanks on many fights....not just MT and OT but like 3 or 4 people holding aggro on something.  If this were the case you would definately find this ability useful.</p><p>Overall a lot of people are upset whenever they get a group or raid buff instead of a personal buff, but the group and raid buffs are always more powerful in the long run.  It's kinda like the whole dark elf racial debate....a couple classes get a mitigation debuff and I would go so far as to say that more raid wide dps will come out of the mitigation debuff than the fury of innoruk skill but nobody cares because to them it's all about the individual instead of the raid.</p>

[Junaru]

The idea behind this skill is to the MT can effectively taunt the mobs AND make sure another fighter is near the top of the list. Think of it as your job just got expanded. You no longer keep aggro on mobs but you effectively assure that if you die the mob will seek another tank rather then a caster.This is how I have seen it used and has worked perfectly. As I said before when the MT when down the mob snapped between the 3 other tanks on the raid. Which tells me that the top 4 hate positions of the mob were all tanks and this was due to the tanks doing their jobs AND the Guardian casting Recapture.I'm sure it's not the glorified skill you were looking for but it does the job and kept the raid from wiping.And again I don't know if this effects the Guardian also. I can only tell you what I saw.

[Raahl]

<cite>Guldor@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>well lets break this spell down into 3 different areas where it can be used.first: soloinglike most taunt spells uselesssecond: groupingyou rarely see 2 fighters (not to mention 2 warriors; happens almost not at all)in groups anyway. and if there are more than 2 fighters the guard is normally tanking.third: raidingwell as a mt i can not see the use of this spell. ok you can bring off tanks to the top of th ehate list. but that is the spot you should be at.as an ot i can see this spell as very usefull. you can help your mt keep the aggro.overall i would say not that good. if it would effect the casting guard too it would be awesome. but this way i can see me use it only when i am ot in a raid.</blockquote><p>Seems like a good summation of the ability.</p><p>On raiding yea it will help if the raid hasn't wiped by the time you get rez'd.   But using this as the MT, I only see it cause aggro to break off onto other tanks.  Which is not what you want to do, because the healers would be jumping all over the place.  </p>

[Raahl]

Junaru was the Guardian spamming this throughout the fight or just occationally?  I'm really worried that using this ability will cause aggro to be screwy.  Still it's a lack luster ability.

[Aven Elonis]

I'm thinking that Recaptures big use will be on mem-wipe, mem-blur mobs and mobs that have to splited tanked.

[Raahl]

<cite>Aven Elonis wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm thinking that Recaptures big use will be on mem-wipe, mem-blur mobs and mobs that have to splited tanked.</blockquote><p>I guess if no other taunts were up it would be usefull when mem-wipes happen.  </p><p>Split tanking maybe, depends on if you have to separate the mobs.  Pretty short range for the effect.  </p>

[Junaru]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote>Junaru was the Guardian spamming this throughout the fight or just occationally?  I'm really worried that using this ability will cause aggro to be screwy.  Still it's a lack luster ability.</blockquote>He was spamming it. Had a macro hotkey set up for it too.<cite>Aven Elonis wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm thinking that Recaptures big use will be on mem-wipe, mem-blur mobs and mobs that have to splited tanked.</blockquote>The mob at the end of that raid does have a memwipe so it would make sense.