What is the effective entry level in RoK for soloers now?

[Seffrid]

Originally the expansion was aimed at 65+, since then I've seen reference to it being adjusted to 68+. Purely as a soloer, my main being a lvl 61 Fury, I'd be interested in  beta testers' experience as to the minimum level at which you can make viable progress in Kunark.

[Auberon_Feykin]

Personally I'd advance to high 60's minimally before going to RoK.  You might be able to get in earlier, but tbh some of those mobs are really nasty . . . and 68 is the lowest level mob in RoK.

[ke'la]

<p>Well consitering a) I have been killing 67s at 63 in BM and LP, b) that I am in Mastercrafted/adept1 for the most part, and that if the MoBs started at 65 they would be starting as white to someone who is lvl65 and suposidly going to a "more dangerous" area. I feel that is a good Idea to start the mobs at 68(wich means player lvl65 should find it chananging), instead of having the lowest creaters in the T8 part of the expaintion start at 65, wich allows people to completly skip the previous content, like many skip DoF now(and befor EoF came out).</p><p>::EDIT::I just zoned into TT in KoS(the last expaintion to raise the cap) and it only had like 6 quests below 58 and maybe 100-150 mobs total below 58. I never had a problem fighting thier at lvl 55(infact at 55 I skiped that island mostly) and moved on to Ravasact.</p>

[NiteWolfe]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well consitering a) I have been killing 67s at 63 in BM and LP, b) that I am in Mastercrafted/adept1 for the most part, and that if the MoBs started at 65 they would be starting as white to someone who is lvl65 and suposidly going to a "more dangerous" area. I feel that is a good Idea to start the mobs at 68(wich means player lvl65 should find it chananging), instead of having the lowest creaters in the T8 part of the expaintion start at 65, wich allows people to completly skip the previous content, like many skip DoF now(and befor EoF came out).</p><p>::EDIT::I just zoned into TT in KoS(the last expaintion to raise the cap) and it only had like 6 quests below 58 and maybe 100-150 mobs total below 58. I never had a problem fighting thier at lvl 55(infact at 55 I skiped that island mostly) and moved on to Ravasact.</p></blockquote> you will find that RoK solo mobs are much tougher than old world solo mobs of the same level and Rok heroics are even tougher

[Kizee]

I can't wait to see the boards light up with the complaints that the solo content is too hard. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Put it this way. My level 80 templar had top end fabled armor and I was doing a low end quest that I needed to kill level 68 mobs. They would beat me down to 1/2 health if before I killed them (if I didn't heal myself). Should be interesting to see the mastercrafted people kill em at the level you get exp from them. hahaI think alot of the mobs hit so hard that soloers will level in the old world because the exp will come faster.

[Cusashorn]

The lowest mobs in the expansion are 66 or 67. All the overland zones have nothing but solo content in them (with a few exceptions here and there such as the City of Mist in Kunzar Jungle)

[Armawk]

<p>If a single 68 mob with no ups cant be easily killed by a 70 in okay gear then it isnt a 68 mob is it.. so yes there would be complaints about that, like there would about any mislabelling. a 72 in the new tier mastercrafts should eat 68s for lunch without any question. Mislabelling isnt increasing difficulty its just mislabelling.</p><p>Just how many of these 68s was your 80 templar fighting at one time?</p>

[NiteWolfe]

probly just 1 i had the same problem with every non high dps class beta buffed to 75 in mc and ad1's. they did tone them down some for a while it was super insane buy compared to live same level mobs they hit super hard and very fast. if your not a class that can burn a mob down fast your going to have a lot of down time regening. heroics like in the kylong castle the green con to my trio in fabled gear were hitting my swashy tank for 1.5k with spikes to 3k. this was a tank specced and fabled geared mastered level 80 swashy a fabled mastered mystic and a fabled mastered dirge trio. live this trio  can run oob and cov with no issues those are yellow con 3 ups in there. yet on rok green 3 ups were a very hard fight to impossible for them to do even with rok end fabled and full masters. Now iam not saying i should be able to 3 box these zones just a comaprison for you to what live to rok is like.

[Maroger]

<p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p>

[Kari]

I was able to solo ok on my level 70 defiler. She was in a mix of KoS fabled and EoF legendary with the majority of her spells mastered. I did not have any problems killing the mobs one at a time, two at a time was kind of tough, a lot more so than I had expected. They hit harder than I was used to, and took slightly longer to kill than I had expected, but I would still consider them solo class for level 70. I wouldn't run around there below level 70 unless I had some pretty fancy armor on though.

[Seffrid]

<p>Thanks everyone for the responses, exactly the type of information I was looking for albeit the conclusions I feared rather than hoped for.</p><p>The problem with the game at the moment is that soloing is positively supported in the outdoor zones but becomes increasingly difficult and sparse from about 60 onwards. I had hoped that this expansion would provide another route from the mid-60's onwards but clearly that is not the current intention assuming the beta setup goes live without any adjustments.</p><p>I imagine, however, that there will be a lot of negative feedback over this, and SOE may have to rethink it. Forced grouping from  60 to 80 (the precise kick-in point being dependent on class) isn't really a sensible option for them to pursue at this stage in my view.</p>

[Talz]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Maroger]

<cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The reward for soloers is not commensurate with the difficulty. Raider are over-rewarded since raiding is not all that difficult.

[Pik'ee]

<cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with the game at the moment is that soloing is positively supported in the outdoor zones but <b>becomes increasingly difficult and sparse from about 60 onwards</b>.<p>I imagine, however, that there will be a lot of negative feedback over this, and SOE may have to rethink it. <b>Forced grouping</b> from  60 to 80 (the precise kick-in point being dependent on class) isn't really a sensible option for them to pursue at this stage in my view.</p></blockquote>First, although I admit to being an evil horrible raider, I'd like to point to Tenebrous tangle, Barren Sky, Bonemire and Loping Plains all of which are absolutely chock full of solo content for up to 70's.There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.Mouse over a white conning solo mob, what does it say? "This encounter is well suited to an individual. This creature is evenly matched with you. Should be a good fight." Now, forgive me if I have always found that "evenly matched" and "a good fight" really shouldn't mean you can chain pull and kill endlessly solo. Maybe there are actually trying to make solo mobs "a good fight"? I doubt it somehow, and do expect some more tweaking to be done if the reports are correct.Again let me reiterate, please make your valid points without randomly blaming some segment of the community, that does neither you nor your arguements any service at all.

[Pik'ee]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The reward for soloers is not commensurate with the difficulty. Raider are over-rewarded since raiding is not all that difficult.</blockquote>I retract my above statements and replace them with "you, sir, are a [Removed for Content]"

[Dragowulf]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well consitering a) I have been killing 67s at 63 in BM and LP, b) that I am in Mastercrafted/adept1 for the most part, and that if the MoBs started at 65 they would be starting as white to someone who is lvl65 and suposidly going to a "more dangerous" area. I feel that is a good Idea to start the mobs at 68(wich means player lvl65 should find it chananging), instead of having the lowest creaters in the T8 part of the expaintion start at 65, wich allows people to completly skip the previous content, like many skip DoF now(and befor EoF came out).</p><p>::EDIT::I just zoned into TT in KoS(the last expaintion to raise the cap) and it only had like 6 quests below 58 and maybe 100-150 mobs total below 58. I never had a problem fighting thier at lvl 55(infact at 55 I skiped that island mostly) and moved on to Ravasact.</p></blockquote>trust me...in RoK solo mobs are way harder than any of the previous expansions.  You will NOT at all beable to solo a level 68 at level 63.

[ke'la]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote><p>Odd, I took a beta buffed SK to 68, with JUST the stuff you got from the Beta Buffer(HANDCRAFTED, ADEPT 1s), and with NO knowage at all about HOW to play a SK, or what I was doing when I set up the AAs, and I went toe to toe with the 68 Mobs thier, yes I lost some and won some, but guess what a) I had NO idea what I was doing(wich puts me at a HUGE disadvantage) b)I was in Handcrafted+Adept1s and Whites are SUPOSED to be a Challange with that set-up.</p><p>So if a play with no knowage on how to accually play an SK, in HANDCRAFTED + Adept 1s, and more or less randomly picked AAs, fighting White Conned MoBs has little issue going toe to toe(though I admit I did lose occationally) then I think someone who KNOWS thier caractor, and has Quality Gear(and that stuff that the Treasured Buffer Passes out is far from quality) should have no problem at 65 in that zone.</p>

[Seffrid]

<cite>Choons@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with the game at the moment is that soloing is positively supported in the outdoor zones but <b>becomes increasingly difficult and sparse from about 60 onwards</b>. <p>I imagine, however, that there will be a lot of negative feedback over this, and SOE may have to rethink it. <b>Forced grouping</b> from  60 to 80 (the precise kick-in point being dependent on class) isn't really a sensible option for them to pursue at this stage in my view.</p></blockquote>First, although I admit to being an evil horrible raider, I'd like to point to Tenebrous tangle, Barren Sky, Bonemire and Loping Plains all of which are absolutely chock full of solo content for up to 70's.There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.Mouse over a white conning solo mob, what does it say? "This encounter is well suited to an individual. This creature is evenly matched with you. Should be a good fight." Now, forgive me if I have always found that "evenly matched" and "a good fight" really shouldn't mean you can chain pull and kill endlessly solo. Maybe there are actually trying to make solo mobs "a good fight"? I doubt it somehow, and do expect some more tweaking to be done if the reports are correct.Again let me reiterate, please make your valid points without randomly blaming some segment of the community, that does neither you nor your arguements any service at all.</blockquote>You might want to re-read my posts and offer a slight apology in my direction. At no point have I even mentioned raiders, let alone attributed any blame to them. Your criticism of the way I spoil my arguments by "randomly blaming some segment of the community" is wholly unfounded.

[Shompta]

From what I've seen so far in Beta, I think most solo types will love RoK. There are tons of solo areas, and they are absolutely HUGE. They are filled with quests and lots of different and unusual monsters. The solo monsters in RoK are tougher than elsewhere. You can't easily fight solo mobs above you level, and some classes that used to chain pull can't really do that as much anymore, but I think most soloers will welcome the challenge rather than be scared off by it. The solo quests, etc. are exiting, and not trivial to complete.

[Pik'ee]

Seffrid you're right, you didn't blame raiders randomly it was merogar or someone posting closer to one of your replies, for that I'm sorry.I will not apologise for my comments after seeing your "raiders are over rewarded" reply however, we'll just have to disagree there.

[Althena]

<i><span class="postbody">There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.</span></i><span class="postbody">Just look at the beta boards (if you can) and tell me that raiders are not the reason everything is so hard, seems like major guilds and raiders are the bulk of the long time play testers and they are all saying "yay finally a game hard enough to be worthy of being eq2" and everyone that states that its hard in non fabled gear gets told to "learn how to play" or "your gear sucks" or "go play something else"So be annoyed all you want, but the statement that "raiders are the reason that its messed up" seems pretty valid right now. Maybe something like "Raiders and Hardcore people" are the reason its so jacked up. And while the "large segment" of raiders may be one of the loudest, they do not make up the majority of players fyi.</span>

[Seffrid]

<cite>Choons@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seffrid you're right, you didn't blame raiders randomly it was merogar or someone posting closer to one of your replies, for that I'm sorry.I will not apologise for my comments after seeing your "raiders are over rewarded" reply however, we'll just have to disagree there.</blockquote><p><b><i>I NEVER MENTIONED RAIDERS!!!!!!</i></b></p><p>Seriously, Choons, you need to re-read my posts. At no stage have I ever mentioned raiders. The quote you mention in the second sentence above was by Maroger, not by me!</p>

[Gladiia]

<cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Choons@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seffrid you're right, you didn't blame raiders randomly it was merogar or someone posting closer to one of your replies, for that I'm sorry.I will not apologise for my comments after seeing your "raiders are over rewarded" reply however, we'll just have to disagree there.</blockquote><p><b><i>I NEVER MENTIONED RAIDERS!!!!!!</i></b></p><p>Seriously, Choons, you need to re-read my posts. At no stage have I ever mentioned raiders. The quote you mention in the second sentence above was by Maroger, not by me!</p></blockquote><p>It's just a misread all the way around.  It's hard to see who said what sometimes when quotes start flying around.</p><p>I'm looking forward to a more challenging area.  I already thought that LP was a pretty decent challenge compared to a lot of the zones that came before it, but still soloed my way through it in mostly treasured and MC without to much trouble.  Hopefully it isn't over-the-top hard, but hard enough for it to take a while for those with no interest in raiding to enjoy the ten levels for a good while to come.</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>Bladewing@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><i><span class="postbody">There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.</span></i><span class="postbody">Just look at the beta boards (if you can) and tell me that raiders are not the reason everything is so hard, seems like major guilds and raiders are the bulk of the long time play testers and they are all saying "yay finally a game hard enough to be worthy of being eq2" and everyone that states that its hard in non fabled gear gets told to "learn how to play" or "your gear sucks" or "go play something else"So be annoyed all you want, but the statement that "raiders are the reason that its messed up" seems pretty valid right now. Maybe something like "Raiders and Hardcore people" are the reason its so jacked up. And while the "large segment" of raiders may be one of the loudest, they do not make up the majority of players fyi.</span></blockquote><p>This is the point I was making -- the beta boards are full of raider demaning it be made harder and complaining when the mobs are toned down. They whined so much that the mobs got bumped up again -- who knows what will go live. They are still making adjustments. </p><p>My problem with SOE beta is that in the early stages too many of the raider and raiding guilds get in and influence the developers. It was always true in EQ1 and is getting to be true in EQ2 also.</p><p>The real problem gets down to the rewards -- I didn't waste time on any of the quest lines ( was more into the TS changes) but I did read the boards and raiders were complaining about quest rewards for soloers being Legendary and better than their raid gear from EoF. This is the kind of crap that makes me mad. Raiders seem to believe that only they deserve anything -- everyone else should get crap. </p><p>Raider think that what they do is hard -- it isn't. I raided with a top raiding guild in EQlive and believe me raiding was NOT difficult (neither the 72 man or the smaller 24 man) it required paying attention and moving into the right spot. A lot of times you could practically go to sleep in a raid. Raids take a lot of time but they were not difficult -- how can something be difficult when 6-8 people are whacking on the same mob -- even Cazic Thule dies pretty quicky.  It takes a lot more skill to solo a mob than to be one of a half a dozen people beating on it. But no one wants to see that.</p>

[Auberon_Feykin]

Just for the record I had no issues as a Fury or a Berserker.  My characters are level 70, have minimally legendary main body slots, and either excellent spells (fury) or excellent weaponry (zerker) . . . I did notice, however, that some of those mobs are very dangerous.  (To the point where my zerker's anti-death kicked in after he pulled a level 69 mob when he was at 75% health.)  If you do solo I would strongly suggest that you be very careful, and pay close attention to what mobs you are fighting.  SOME of them are of fairly standard difficulty.  OTHERS are extremely hard-hitting and tough.  Solo vampires in MMC, the level 72 ones in the beginning, are about as hard as level 68/69 mobs in RoK.

[Rolande']

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bladewing@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><i><span class="postbody">There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.</span></i><span class="postbody">Just look at the beta boards (if you can) and tell me that raiders are not the reason everything is so hard, seems like major guilds and raiders are the bulk of the long time play testers and they are all saying "yay finally a game hard enough to be worthy of being eq2" and everyone that states that its hard in non fabled gear gets told to "learn how to play" or "your gear sucks" or "go play something else"So be annoyed all you want, but the statement that "raiders are the reason that its messed up" seems pretty valid right now. Maybe something like "Raiders and Hardcore people" are the reason its so jacked up. And while the "large segment" of raiders may be one of the loudest, they do not make up the majority of players fyi.</span></blockquote><p>This is the point I was making -- the beta boards are full of raider demaning it be made harder and complaining when the mobs are toned down. They whined so much that the mobs got bumped up again -- who knows what will go live. They are still making adjustments. </p><p>My problem with SOE beta is that in the early stages too many of the raider and raiding guilds get in and influence the developers. It was always true in EQ1 and is getting to be true in EQ2 also.</p><p>The real problem gets down to the rewards -- I didn't waste time on any of the quest lines ( was more into the TS changes) but I did read the boards and raiders were complaining about quest rewards for soloers being Legendary and better than their raid gear from EoF. This is the kind of crap that makes me mad. Raiders seem to believe that only they deserve anything -- everyone else should get crap. </p><p>Raider think that what they do is hard -- it isn't. I raided with a top raiding guild in EQlive and believe me raiding was NOT difficult (neither the 72 man or the smaller 24 man) it required paying attention and moving into the right spot. A lot of times you could practically go to sleep in a raid. Raids take a lot of time but they were not difficult -- how can something be difficult when 6-8 people are whacking on the same mob -- even Cazic Thule dies pretty quicky.  It takes a lot more skill to solo a mob than to be one of a half a dozen people beating on it. But no one wants to see that.</p></blockquote> I am not going to get pulled into the solo vs raider argument, but your above statement is hilarious to me. You make a statement that raiding isnt hard, and the way you back it up is explaining how easy it is to raid in a different game. I have soloed and raided, I can say that raiding takes much more time and thought than soloing. Soloing in eq2 is chain pulling without much thought to anything else, how is that difficult?

[Maroger]

<cite>Wingdini@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bladewing@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><i><span class="postbody">There may or may not be a balance issue with solo mobs in RoK, and if so then this will hopefully be addressed. Do not whine about it being the raiders fault somehow, that just detracts from whatever valid point you have and just annoys the hell out of a large segment of the playing poulation. And no way will SoE make it into forced grouping, they have strayed further and further from that idea ever since launch.</span></i><span class="postbody">Just look at the beta boards (if you can) and tell me that raiders are not the reason everything is so hard, seems like major guilds and raiders are the bulk of the long time play testers and they are all saying "yay finally a game hard enough to be worthy of being eq2" and everyone that states that its hard in non fabled gear gets told to "learn how to play" or "your gear sucks" or "go play something else"So be annoyed all you want, but the statement that "raiders are the reason that its messed up" seems pretty valid right now. Maybe something like "Raiders and Hardcore people" are the reason its so jacked up. And while the "large segment" of raiders may be one of the loudest, they do not make up the majority of players fyi.</span></blockquote><p>This is the point I was making -- the beta boards are full of raider demaning it be made harder and complaining when the mobs are toned down. They whined so much that the mobs got bumped up again -- who knows what will go live. They are still making adjustments. </p><p>My problem with SOE beta is that in the early stages too many of the raider and raiding guilds get in and influence the developers. It was always true in EQ1 and is getting to be true in EQ2 also.</p><p>The real problem gets down to the rewards -- I didn't waste time on any of the quest lines ( was more into the TS changes) but I did read the boards and raiders were complaining about quest rewards for soloers being Legendary and better than their raid gear from EoF. This is the kind of crap that makes me mad. Raiders seem to believe that only they deserve anything -- everyone else should get crap. </p><p>Raider think that what they do is hard -- it isn't. I raided with a top raiding guild in EQlive and believe me raiding was NOT difficult (neither the 72 man or the smaller 24 man) it required paying attention and moving into the right spot. A lot of times you could practically go to sleep in a raid. Raids take a lot of time but they were not difficult -- how can something be difficult when 6-8 people are whacking on the same mob -- even Cazic Thule dies pretty quicky.  It takes a lot more skill to solo a mob than to be one of a half a dozen people beating on it. But no one wants to see that.</p></blockquote> I am not going to get pulled into the solo vs raider argument, but your above statement is hilarious to me. You make a statement that raiding isnt hard, and the way you back it up is explaining how easy it is to raid in a different game. I have soloed and raided, I can say that raiding takes much more time and thought than soloing. Soloing in eq2 is chain pulling without much thought to anything else, how is that difficult?</blockquote><p>I have talked to players who have raided in EQLIVE and EQ2 and all who are any good at raiding definitely think that EQ2 raiding is much, much easier and requires less skill. Most EQ2 raiders wouldn't last 5 minutes in EQLive raids.  Those who are less skilled in raiding will find eq2 challenging. </p><p>How difficult soloing is depends on what you are soloing. You must have taken the least challenging solo mobs if you felt you were chain pulling. </p>

[Galeden]

This part applies speficly to the post that the high end raiding guilds got the content raised to match what they find difficult (and if this is untrue then please ignore it) Why do raiders have any input/sayso how hard or not solo content is when once beta is over, they will likely never touch it? How many times have raiders on the forums specificly said they could care less about quests and solo content, yet they want it to be up to their level? Why? They sure won't use it, the harder it is the less its effective for XPing vs guild groups. And what happened to the standard being app4s and mid range gear for solo mobs? Why have all this solo content that people said is in RoK if its geared for people who don't even use it, and the rest who want to are punished for it? Really hope this is not true or that it gets tuned down. Anyway no mater why it may be harder, I would hope things get ballanced to be in line with existing zone's difficulty for level etc. I like a chalanage sure, but RoK should not change the difficulty level for mobs that are labled the same as easy mobs elsewhere. If they are a lot tougher then the same level 1 down or no up/down, then they should not be labled the same, either the level should be higher, or they should be made 1 or 2 ^ at least so people get the bonus xp reward for defeating that chalange level of mob.

[Gladiia]

<cite>Galeden wrote:</cite><blockquote>This part applies speficly to the post that the high end raiding guilds got the content raised to match what they find difficult (and if this is untrue then please ignore it)Why do raiders have any input/sayso how hard or not solo content is when once beta is over, they will likely never touch it? How many times have raiders on the forums specificly said they could care less about quests and solo content, yet they want it to be up to their level? Why? They sure won't use it, the harder it is the less its effective for XPing vs guild groups. And what happened to the standard being app4s and mid range gear for solo mobs? Why have all this solo content that people said is in RoK if its geared for people who don't even use it, and the rest who want to are punished for it? Really hope this is not true or that it gets tuned down.Anyway no mater why it may be harder, I would hope things get ballanced to be in line with existing zone's difficulty for level etc.I like a chalanage sure, but RoK should not change the difficulty level for mobs that are labled the same as easy mobs elsewhere. If they are a lot tougher then the same level 1 down or no up/down, then they should not be labled the same, either the level should be higher, or they should be made 1 or 2 ^ at least so people get the bonus xp reward for defeating that chalange level of mob.</blockquote><p>As it stands now, it is not very difficult to get a legendary set of armor prior to hitting 70.  This isn't true before level 50, so with better gear being easier to get at higher levels, from a soloer/grouper point of view, it makes sense that the mobs are in line with that.</p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a single 68 mob with no ups cant be easily killed by a 70 in okay gear then it isnt a 68 mob is it.. so yes there would be complaints about that, like there would about any mislabelling. a 72 in the new tier mastercrafts should eat 68s for lunch without any question. Mislabelling isnt increasing difficulty its just mislabelling.</p><p>Just how many of these 68s was your 80 templar fighting at one time?</p></blockquote><p>They're not mislabled.  Look at your average 65+ player in the game now...that's what these mobs are designed for.  The solo mobs are soloable, but they're not easy, either.  (which is as it should be).  They're a challenge, and that's a welcome change.</p>

[Karlen]

The level 68-70 mobs in the early areas of RoK are not difficult for my 68 mystic (mostly treasured/some legendary).  I can't afk autoattack them like I can with KoS level 68 mobs, but they are not particularly difficult if some effort is applied (such as casting wards which I generally don't bother with in KoS against solo mobs).

[Gargamel]

<p>Yeah I have no doubt that sony will water down and nerf the mobs after the crybabies have their say.</p><p>I mean, apparently not only is it unacceptable that sony DARE have players group, but its also unacceptable that soloing have any challange at all.</p>

[Gladiia]

<cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah I have no doubt that sony will water down and nerf the mobs after the crybabies have their say.</p><p>I mean, apparently not only is it unacceptable that sony DARE have players group, but its also unacceptable that soloing have any challange at all.</p></blockquote><p>There isn't any challenge to most solo mobs now, so I guess it's what people are used to.  </p><p>The way I see it, if you are using apIVs and handcrafted armor, you should be able to go toe to toe with a mob of equal level - of course toe to toe means that when the mob falls you are going to be next to death yourself.</p><p>If anything I would say that the older solo mobs are mislabeled.  Most of my toons leveling up can take on ^ mobs 4-5 levels higher than they are throughout most of the levels in most of the zones (not true before level 20...there is still some challenge to be found in some places before level 20 if you look).  Now, I'm not in appIV/handcrafted, so I do expect mobs with no arrows and equal level to be somewhat easy, but I also don't go around leveling up in fabled/legendary gear.  </p><p>Not a complaint on the difficulty of current content, I still have fun playing.  Just pointing out that it makes sense that a mob of your level should be at least moderately difficult if you aren't top-notch geared.  And its good to know that even people with very good gear are not running around chain-pulling yellow-orange mobs.</p>

[Gromph]

<cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I have never seen solo players request harder solo content. I am a dedicated solo player and I find the current solution with solo and group content just fine. I can do both solo (higher mob lvl) and group (lower mob level) content. That is very good since its only raid content that SOE fail to provide.The game itself is not too easy. For an average player with app1 and handcrafted stuff a white mob is a fairly equal fight i would say. Players that complain that it is to easy always seem to deliberately make it easy by uppgrading their spells and gear.It is perfectly ok to uppgrade if you want an easier game, but then its downright stupid to complain that it has become easy. I think most player are prepared to agree with that.

[Talz]

<cite>Gromph wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I have never seen solo players request harder solo content. I am a dedicated solo player and I find the current solution with solo and group content just fine. I can do both solo (higher mob lvl) and group (lower mob level) content. That is very good since its only raid content that SOE fail to provide.The game itself is not too easy. For an average player with app1 and handcrafted stuff a white mob is a fairly equal fight i would say. Players that complain that it is to easy always seem to deliberately make it easy by uppgrading their spells and gear.It is perfectly ok to uppgrade if you want an easier game, but then its downright stupid to complain that it has become easy. I think most player are prepared to agree with that.</blockquote>It's absurd to suggest that it's stupid to complain if you don't seek out the lowest quality skills and most bland equipment.  I would love to see the brain trust that's prepared to agree with that.

[AJoS]

He/she did say the "average" player and he/she's right imo.  The average player wont be mastercrafted.  Chances are they'll only have a handful of >=app4s

[Killerbee3000]

the average real noobie at lvl 1 wont have atleast mastercrafted yes... but, at lvl 70+ its sure that they have atleast mastercrafted and full adept 3's....

[Talz]

<cite>AJoS wrote:</cite><blockquote>He/she did say the "average" player and he/she's right imo.  The average player wont be mastercrafted.  Chances are they'll only have a handful of >=app4s</blockquote>Give me a break.  Mastercrafted and ad3 is average in EQ2.

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No, the common soloer request is more *challenging* and smarter content. Making mobs hit harder is not making content more challenging or smarter. It's still the same rote killing over and over.

[Maroger]

<cite>Gwyneth@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No, the common soloer request is more *challenging* and smarter content. Making mobs hit harder is not making content more challenging or smarter. It's still the same rote killing over and over. </blockquote><p>Exactly more challenging does not equal mobs with more HPs or ones that hit harder.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>The last time SOE tried that form of challenge in an expansion was on EQLIVE - and they ended up having to apologize for the expansion -- This sounds and plays too much like a slightly weaker version of GoD -- the forgotten expansion. </p>

[Hamervelder]

Let me offer, if I may, my personal experience.  My SK is lvl 70, in a mix of EoF and KoS fabled gear, with Adept III's and master spells.  As SK's go, he's in the top 10 or 15 of SK's on Antonia Bayle.  I can, with varying degrees of difficulty, do all of the following in KoS and EoF:-Solo blue-con ^^^ heroic encounters.-Solo blue-con ^^^ <i>named</i> heroic encounters.-Solo multiple green-con heroic encounters.-Solo five or six blue-con solo encounters at once.Here are the results of trying the same types of things in RoK:-Soloing blue-con ^^^ heroics:  I haven't found any heroics below lvl 70.-Solowing blue-con ^^^ named heroics:  Again, haven't found any heroics below lvl 70-Solo multiple green-con heroic encounters:  Same.-Solo five or six blue-con solo encounters at once:  I'm lucky to take on three.  And that's pushing it.  This is a character who is very well-equipped, whom I have played consistently for nearly three years.  The difficulty on beta is better than it was a week ago, but I <i>guarantee</i> that if you are wearing master-crafted gear, if you are below lvl 70, <i>you will die if you get any adds at all.</i>  Period.Now, moving on to more of my personal experiences, this time with the swashbuckler.  I took Atelos over to beta, and raid-buffed him to 80.  All fabled gear.  All Master spells, 140 AA's.  Currently on beta, Atelos has 10.1kHP, 52% mitigation, 54% avoidance.  I can solo green-con and blue-con heroics in KoS and EoF on Atelos, though he does lose alot.   I kid you not, lvl 73 and 74 heroics were killing him in less than 10 seconds.  With Atelos, this is my typical method of killing heroics:<i>Before pulling</i>: I cast Ruthless Cunning, Perfect Finesse, En Garde, and Inspiration.  Then invis.<i>On Pull:</i> Open with Brazening, Lung Puncture, Plunder.  Stun.  Guile.  and then just go from there.With this method, I typically crank out in excess of 4kdps for the first 13 seconds, then it tapers off to about 2.8k, then down to about 2k after 30 seconds -- at level 70.  But all that DPS means precisely <i>nothing</i> in RoK, because even with him buffed to lvl 80, the lvl 72 and 73 heroics kill Atelos within 10 seconds.  The amount of damage that mobs in RoK do is just insane.  Even taking on several green-con solo encounters at once, <i>in full fabled and with all Master spells</i> is a death wish.I don't intend to be one of those doomsday folks, but to be honest, RoK is going to be a massive paradigm shift for folks.  As far as I can see, gone are the days when raiders dominate solo and group content.  They're going to die quickly just like the rest.

[Zabjade]

<cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>AJoS wrote:</cite><blockquote>He/she did say the "average" player and he/she's right imo.  The average player wont be mastercrafted.  Chances are they'll only have a handful of >=app4s</blockquote>Give me a break.  Mastercrafted and ad3 is average in EQ2.</blockquote><span style="color: #00cc00;">Depends on server/prices/average time you have to play. I have a few masters mostly those I could afford about half are adept 1 with my Heal at Adept 4</span>

[Talz]

<cite>Gwyneth@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you plan to solo I wouldn't go near Kunark until Level 72 at least. Thje mobs hit like mack trucks and are double attacking and appear to be hasted. Some are hiting you twice in a row for like 1k a pop.</p><p>They have really cranked up the difficulty - ( must be due to raider whinig) but in any case the area is not soloable until at least level 72 and probably not by every class either. </p><p>I did some soloing on my Level 72 SK - I had mostly Adept III spells and the treasured buffed armor ( they rather nerfed masterclass stuff -) and I also had the AA's into spells which healed me and I still had a hard time. </p></blockquote>I love how solo players constantly request harder solo content and when it comes along evil raiders still get blamed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No, the common soloer request is more *challenging* and smarter content. Making mobs hit harder is not making content more challenging or smarter. It's still the same rote killing over and over. </blockquote>We have been down this road more than once and it always leads to the same place so we can both save our breath.

[Maroger]

<p>This interesting thread has appeared on the beta boards and sound rather ominous.</p><p><cite>Guardian-SE wrote:</cite></p><p> <i> Now here what i came across tho. I had quite a few quests completed so i decide to go turn them in to have an idea how much xp im gonna get for. So here i am, going through looping plains, looking for my npc to turn the quest in. </i></p><p><i> I think everyone did this before, and just trained stuff while traveling through LP just so they cant invis. And i think everyone agreed that it was an easy task.</i></p><p><i>Well, let me tell you.. me, a lv 70 guardian, fully fabled , i could NOT train through LP to turn my quests in. I died over and over killed by lv 68 ^^^ in LP . Not once, not twice..10 times.. Mob were hitting me for over 1k a hit.</i></p><p><i> Gave up on LP and decided to go try some other zone. I had a quest in PoA, baren sky, so i went there to turn it in. What do you know, i couldnt make it to the wall in PoA trying to train blue mobs. KOS MOBS !!!!!!</i></p><p><i> Somehow somewhat, they did something to the game mechanics, to the core of the NPC combat values. Not just ROK.</i></p><p>The reply from a developer was this:</p><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><p><i>We didn't change anything in Loping plains, these changes are all expansion 4 specific.</i></p><p>Which many people, myself included, take this to mean that some of the mob changes we see in Kunark have been spread across the old world zones -- probably they updated some global tables for mitigate, damage, HP, haste etc. etc. </p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Which many people, myself included, take this to mean that some of the mob changes we see in Kunark have been spread across the old world zones -- probably they updated some global tables for mitigate, damage, HP, haste etc. etc.</p></blockquote>Didn't something like this happen at EoF launch? I remember Labs raids got "tough" for a few weeks into EoF until they fixed whatever they broke.

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Which many people, myself included, take this to mean that some of the mob changes we see in Kunark have been spread across the old world zones -- probably they updated some global tables for mitigate, damage, HP, haste etc. etc.</p></blockquote>Didn't something like this happen at EoF launch? I remember Labs raids got "tough" for a few weeks into EoF until they fixed whatever they broke. </blockquote>Yep, same thing happened when EoF launched.  And if you recall, all heroics got boosted by accident when KoS launched. 

[Zarafein]

<p>The bad thing about the solo difficulty is not only that they are harder, but the gap between melee and root+nuke classes will increase even more and they decided for whatever reason to keep not only the majority of heroics in dungeons but also encounters, feels like +95% of solo content in rok are single npcs.</p>

[Armawk]

<cite>Lhangion@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The bad thing about the solo difficulty is not only that they are harder, but the gap between melee and root+nuke classes will increase even more and they decided for whatever reason to keep not only the majority of heroics in dungeons but also encounters, feels like +95% of solo content in rok are single npcs.</p></blockquote><p>Im all for mixing encounters with solo-social, as it gives all classes lots of chances. But to be honest most of the 'single' mobs means social groups, and for some classes that renders many of their best spells useless.</p><p>An encounter of 4x2downs is easy for some classes.. where 2 no arrow socials is insta-death. If your best hits are encounter then a group of socials is effectively an encounter each. Common sense would dictate having some singles, some encounters.</p><p>Some making up of minds needs to go on at soe on this stuff.. we have characters designed for encounters, but outside dungeons they have decided to not use encounters any more. whats the actual PLAN here?</p>

[dawy]

<p>When i got into beta a few weeks ago now the trash mobs no ^ were hitting like trains its wasnt pleasant indeed when you logged onto live it really was like playing 2 versions of the same game thankfully they drop it a bit to a level were it was much more playable to the soloer but of course people then started to moan it was too easy sadly those seemed to be in fully fabled raid gear if thier posts are to be believed.</p><p>For me the balance now is about right between us who to solo and the raiders its a difficult balancing act thats for sure but they have just about done it IMO but go to Kylong before level 68-69 and prepare to have your backside handed back to you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gromph]

<cite>Talzar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromph wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have never seen solo players request harder solo content. I am a dedicated solo player and I find the current solution with solo and group content just fine. I can do both solo (higher mob lvl) and group (lower mob level) content. That is very good since its only raid content that SOE fail to provide.The game itself is not too easy. For an average player with app1 and handcrafted stuff a white mob is a fairly equal fight i would say. Players that complain that it is to easy always seem to deliberately make it easy by uppgrading their spells and gear.It is perfectly ok to uppgrade if you want an easier game, but then its downright stupid to complain that it has become easy. I think most player are prepared to agree with that.</blockquote>It's absurd to suggest that it's stupid to complain if you don't seek out the lowest quality skills and most bland equipment.  I would love to see the brain trust that's prepared to agree with that. </blockquote>Should I interpret your answer so that you seriously don't see anything wrong in first equipping yourself so the game should be easy and then complain that the game has gotten easy?Don't you, at least for a moment, think that you, yourself, are responsible for making the game easy?

[Gromph]

<cite>AJoS wrote:</cite><blockquote>He/she did say the "average" player and he/she's right imo.  The average player wont be mastercrafted.  Chances are they'll only have a handful of >=app4s</blockquote>Unfortunately, what I wrote could easily be misinterpreted.What I ment was, that a player with average playing skills and using a toon that happens to be equipped with app1 and handcrafted will have a fair fight with a white mob.(Only if spell/gear is upgraded the fight will be easier).

[Tikva]

<p>As wizard I would say that 65 lvl good suit for soloer , no beta buff mastercraft all adept III  71 wizard easy kiled 74^ named in kulong planes at 72 kiled any mob in Fens 75 lvl mobs in Field of Bones bit resistable any way didnd died once during beta , dont see any problem should be at 65 lvl kill 68 lvl mobs . In other hen beta buffed 65 lvl SK ( hendcrafted + adept 1 ) had no chanse kill 68 drachnids near docks</p><p>Karcia - 70 wizard</p>

[Chay]

Such pleasantness in this thread... lots of name calling and finger pointing. Calling people "crybabies" is really not all that mature and not constructive at all. From my testing in beta it seems to me that things are tuned towards people having higher end equipment and spells. Plus I think there are two additional thought processes involved. 1. Limit the bots. If things hit really really hard and aren't in encounters it makes it harder for some bots to farm gold or powerlevel.2. Time sink. Making things harder slows everyone down. Well almost everyone. The slower people move the more time they have to spend in content to get to end game.