New Rok 80 Fabled Gear [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

xandez

11-10-2007, 05:48 PM

On the contrary, the optimal spec in raids could aswell be the melee line. The free healing due natural boon is nice + the DPS is better than with spells... and joust with the rest of the melee crew if necessary.Personally, i see no downsides, just ups for being melee in raids. Ok you MAY get away for some AoE:s by standing away, but i think the range of those is quite large anyway... of course i dont raid, so... But you dont really have to do much math to see that the melee spec is a boon, not a bane.++Xan

netman

11-10-2007, 05:52 PM

If you want DPS, betray fury ! If you want DPS melee, reroll scout ! I dont' care a [Removed for Content] to be desired for my DPS. I want to be chosen for my heal and my buff. Though our heal is very good, ours buffs have a time limited interest. In 6 months, we'll be useless, because heal & our buffs won't be anymore crucial, and keeping aggro more important. Our DPS will not keep us desired, neither INT nor STR based.

dpsman

11-10-2007, 06:27 PM

Oosu

11-10-2007, 08:17 PM

Yep. Agreed. This set is complete trash in my opinion. It looks exactly like out EoF set. Just more [Removed for Content]. All they did is increase what was already there. Nothing intuitive. Nothing new. Just the same old [Removed for Content]. I hope to god that is not our end set and maybe just the beginning of our progression. Oh yah it has the same texture of our old sets too. Different mesh. Wow. On a side note I am pretty dissapointed about getting 40 more AA. Really..that's great...Now i can put the rest of my points into the cure line....[Removed for Content] great. Because they put so much thought into it and made it so useful. At least I will get some moderate use out of the KoS line I guess. From what i gathered they put all time and resources into making the game look nice. Without taking into account the actually gameplay. Racials anyone? What the [Removed for Content] is up with that. And they introduced faction grinding again, Yes! Might as well bring back camping while they're at it. On a good roll here. Ah well. Like eveyrone else I will continue to play my class. I will still give SOE my god [Removed for Content] money. I just to like to [Removed for Content] and complain. But i would love it if they actually took some [Removed for Content] time and made an effort at class balance as ooposed to making the rhino animations look good...I would post suggestions but it doesn't matter. I don't have anythig to say that hasn't been said before. And it obviously makes no difference. 3 years has shown us that. Ever get the feeling we are just guinea pigs for them to test [Removed for Content] out on for thier next big MMO?

Sorano

11-10-2007, 09:03 PM

To be blunt the lack of str on our set armour is the least of our problems. DPS is not the primary function of a healer, so I suggest we put that aside and focus on getting the things that really need to be fixed addressed.We do not have a T8 upgrade to Tunare's Watch. That should be addressed ASAP as it is a spell that makes the warden class unique. The upgrade to Tranquility, Purity is just as broken as the original and only heals for half the value stated in the description once it cures.Faery Ally/GroveNeither of these spells are AE immune and die when the mob sneezes in their direction. What makes this worse is that the warden 7 set bonus extends the duration on the Faery Ally. In a raid situation that pet is never going to last the original duration, let alone the extended one granted by the 7 set bonus. So as it stands currently, raiding wardens have nothing to gain from the 7 set bonus. Both the Faery Ally and the Grove need to be made AE immune. I don't mind losing the Faery Ally's ability to heal surrounding members on death, if it gains AE immunity as the tradeoff.The Duststorm line really needs to be changed to buff block/parry instead of defense. If that one simple thing is done, it will make the warden class so much more viable for raiding.

Shizzirri

11-11-2007, 01:04 AM

Yes a little str is nice, I will admit that but it's not your primary stat, stam/int, hell even wis should be higher priority. The melee line is nice I've used it, even on raids and I've made dps parses, but that's not a warden's purpose on raids, you want to argue natural boon's use with me don't bother, aoe avoidance > that any time, not taking group damage = no need to heal...As for the set it's nice if your a raiding warden specced agil/stam, int/stam non melee but how many wardens (that actually get in raids) spec dps, if you do this you shouldn't bother your going to be bidding on cheap brawler loot and scout jewelry, and you'll [Removed for Content] them off because its going to a warden that can probably do half the dps a real dps class can do.And yeah the fairy pet sucks, but im sure if enough people whine sony will fix it /laugh

xandez

11-11-2007, 06:58 AM

Nevertheless, if the devs would be wise, they would let you change the stats on the fables sets to better suit the melee wardens. Win-win situation and noone could complain. *shrug*I mostly solo, for this i have to say that wardens are hands down the best class i've yet played. Granted, i have not tested necro yet... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> For grouping and < the warden DPS is very nice imo (atleast the melee one) and i have to say that if a fury can do better... then let em. Im having fun atm and since i wont be getting any fables equipment, ever, i really dont care if they but only INT to the warden fabled sets actually.++Xan

netman

11-11-2007, 10:23 AM

raiding set are for raiding purposewhy do you want STR if not for more DPS ?

dpsman

11-11-2007, 01:59 PM

<cite>Renarde@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>raiding set are for raiding purposewhy do you want STR if not for more DPS ? </blockquote>Try to understand this.It's not just the fabled sets, none of the sets have str and why do you want INT if not for more DPS?

ELITEO

11-11-2007, 03:05 PM

There will still be plenty of ways to increase ones strength if so desired im sure ... I mean , what are you going to wear untill you get the whole set ,,, thats a butt load of raiding anyways , even if you always end up with the peice that drops for the warden , How many raids is that going to amount to?

netman

11-11-2007, 03:13 PM

Our DPS is naturally INT based. But we aren't furies, we aren't the DPS healer, neither spell nor melee dps, in a raiding environnement.We are the defensive aspect of the druid. We can DPS, but it's not our primary or even our secondary role. We are a MT tank healer, we are a buff and eventually we can DPS. But EOF has shown the DPS progression involve aggro management, and reconsideration of the warden in the mt group. Moreover, this involve a reconsideration of the warden in the raid because outside of the MT group, our buffs are not enough crucial to be really usefull.So, DPS (INT or STR) questions seem trivial, and in a raiding purpose it must not be important. Nevertheless, we shoud pay attention our raiding progression evolution. It don't want to be another 90% DPS -10%healing time healer as for EOF.I'm sorry, my english is not fluently as it'd like to be.

GinFan

11-11-2007, 04:54 PM

We have had our raid and melee issues documented over and over again. Suggested solutions, some good some bad, have been posted up the wazooo. No issue Wardens had pre-Kunark is going to be resolved at Kunark release. I'm tired of seeing the same d. things reposted so i'll simply give the Warden design team a grade of D+ and leave it at that. Way to not quite reach mediocre... go drink some cheap skunky beer in celebration... you deserve it.

Stuckx

11-11-2007, 09:35 PM

<cite>GinFan wrote:</cite><blockquote>We have had our raid and melee issues documented over and over again. Suggested solutions, some good some bad, have been posted up the wazooo. No issue Wardens had pre-Kunark is going to be resolved at Kunark release. I'm tired of seeing the same d. things reposted so i'll simply give the Warden design team a grade of D+ and leave it at that. Way to not quite reach mediocre... go drink some cheap skunky beer in celebration... you deserve it. </blockquote>Why do some wardens want the melee line?Because it allows them to run in,use all their combat arts,and then run out to focus on healing.Some extra str would be nice to help the DPS a little.

xandez

11-12-2007, 05:08 AM

Someone said it earlier.. .its just not the fabled sets which have this problem. Not all of us are raiding ya know? So why the hell should we use the sucky INT gear since going melee we can do more DPS and heal just as good and possibly much better. *shrug*++Xan

Sorano

11-12-2007, 06:31 AM

<cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone said it earlier.. .its just not the fabled sets which have this problem. Not all of us are raiding ya know? So why the hell should we use the sucky INT gear since going melee we can do more DPS and heal just as good and possibly much better. *shrug*++Xan</blockquote>You are misguided in thinking a melee specced warden heals as well as an agi/sta specced one. You won't touch a pure heal specced warden, no matter how much Natural Boon fires. This thread is called the ROK fabled thread, so if you don't raid it does not apply to you. From what I have seen though, the legendary set has str on it, well the BP did anyway, so I am sure you will have the option to equip that.

Sorano

11-12-2007, 06:48 AM

BTW here is what our T8 heals look like. I am Wild Regen specced. Sylvan Bloom is being altered by our 5 set bonus.<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/EQ2pics/heals.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="703" border="0" />

dpsman

11-12-2007, 01:57 PM

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone said it earlier.. .its just not the fabled sets which have this problem. Not all of us are raiding ya know? So why the hell should we use the sucky INT gear since going melee we can do more DPS and heal just as good and possibly much better. *shrug*++Xan</blockquote>You are misguided in thinking a melee specced warden heals as well as an agi/sta specced one. You won't touch a pure heal specced warden, no matter how much Natural Boon fires. This thread is called the ROK fabled thread, so if you don't raid it does not apply to you. From what I have seen though, the legendary set has str on it, well the BP did anyway, so I am sure you will have the option to equip that.</blockquote>You sir are the mis-guided one if you think for a second that us str/sta specced wardens cant heal as well as agi/sta.

xandez

11-12-2007, 03:11 PM

<blockquote><cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone said it earlier.. .its just not the fabled sets which have this problem. Not all of us are raiding ya know? So why the hell should we use the sucky INT gear since going melee we can do more DPS and heal just as good and possibly much better. *shrug*++Xan</blockquote>You are misguided in thinking a melee specced warden heals as well as an agi/sta specced one. You won't touch a pure heal specced warden, no matter how much Natural Boon fires. This thread is called the ROK fabled thread, so if you don't raid it does not apply to you. From what I have seen though, the legendary set has str on it, well the BP did anyway, so I am sure you will have the option to equip that.</blockquote></blockquote>uhm... where in my post did i say anything about STA/AGI specced wardens vs. STR/STA or STR/anything specced wardens? I must need new goggles... And yes this is thread called RoK fables... im out, have fun <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />*edit*OOps... misred that post... re-quoted ++Xan

Sorano

11-12-2007, 03:44 PM

<cite>dpsman wrote:</cite><blockquote>You sir are the mis-guided one if you think for a second that us str/sta specced wardens cant heal as well as agi/sta. </blockquote>You can't. End of story.

xandez

11-12-2007, 05:57 PM

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dpsman wrote:</cite><blockquote>You sir are the mis-guided one if you think for a second that us str/sta specced wardens cant heal as well as agi/sta. </blockquote>You can't. End of story. </blockquote>Even if i said im out, im gonna post this 1 time... Yes we can heal just as well and in RoK its even easier due to the extra 40 AA:sBut we all are entitled to our opinions, arent we? And besides, AGI line is not worth it if not for raiding... actually neither is STA line While they sure help, they really are not needed... eh. Atleast not in MY opinion and i have not missed those...Sry again for the derailing... I sure hope i get to some nice raiding guild sometime, maybe i woudlnt mind wearing those fableds even if they didnt have any STR on em <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan

Stuckx

11-12-2007, 06:52 PM

I have to ask...whats the point of playing on a PVE server if not to raid?honestly...it would get kind of boring..grinding the same heroic instances..

dpsman

11-12-2007, 08:01 PM

<cite>Ransagorthemerciless wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to ask...whats the point of playing on a PVE server if not to raid?honestly...it would get kind of boring..grinding the same heroic instances..</blockquote>To have fun!Are you actually trying to tell me that grinding the same raid instances is any less boring than heroic instances?I'm retired from raiding, to date I have 2 Demiplane geared toons in EQ1 and at the time I quit had finished all raid content. I have killed all content in eq2 as well except for a few Avatar's. After all my years of raiding I have to say its the raiding that was boring to me, week after week same raid mobs, not to mention the attendance requirements wich are in my opinion geared toward children. I find it hard to believe how any grown adult can dedicate 5-7 days a week for raids that may be 3-6 hours long. Actually what kind of responsible parent would allow their children to spend that much time on the game. Spending that much time in no way, improves the quality of ones life, if anything it degrades it.Since I retired from raiding I have been having 100% more fun on the PVE server's as I'm sure do others. Raid instances are just as boring as heroic instances after you have killed the same mob 10000000 times.

dpsman

11-12-2007, 08:02 PM

gatrm

11-13-2007, 01:14 AM

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dpsman wrote:</cite><blockquote>You sir are the mis-guided one if you think for a second that us str/sta specced wardens cant heal as well as agi/sta. </blockquote>You can't. End of story. </blockquote>It would be nice if all of the elitest casting wardens would accept that melee wardens can heal as well if not better than them. I tried agi/sta, and my healing decreased. Str line increases healing ability far more than that crap on the agility line. The only thing good about the agility line is the end ability when you need to avoid the nasty aoes. Nothing on the EoF line helps healing, so why not have fun and join the fight? Besides, a melee warden doesnt have to stop healing to do damage- just throw out an occasional combat art between the healing. Guarantee a good melee warden can outheal a good casting warden.Edited once I calmed down a little to make it less offensive

ELITEO

11-13-2007, 04:20 AM

You cant get the sucky Int gear if you dont raid ... Period .So why raid then you ask ... Ill tell you whyBecuz the resists and physical mitigation on that gear will keep you alive.

xandez

11-13-2007, 04:37 AM

<cite>Ransagorthemerciless wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to ask...whats the point of playing on a PVE server if not to raid?honestly...it would get kind of boring..grinding the same heroic instances..</blockquote>This is not me posting... move along <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Yes to have fun, with friends. I prefer RL friends... and besides, i dont even grind heroic instances <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I prefer to do alts and play with em... eheh.... but hey, this is just me <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan

Sorano

11-13-2007, 04:49 AM

<cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote> Guarantee a good melee warden can outheal a good casting warden.</blockquote>That one statement there only proves how little you know about the capabilites of a pure heal specced sta/agi warden. The melee line is something you play around with when the raid is well geared and you don't require much healing anymore. I am not going to even bother to argue anymore, but suffice to say every raiding warden I know has respecced agi/sta for ROK.

Eugam

11-13-2007, 08:26 AM

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote> Guarantee a good melee warden can outheal a good casting warden.</blockquote>That one statement there only proves how little you know about the capabilites of a pure heal specced sta/agi warden. The melee line is something you play around with when the raid is well geared and you don't require much healing anymore. I am not going to even bother to argue anymore, but suffice to say every raiding warden I know has respecced agi/sta for ROK. </blockquote>This is a very situational truth. Playing a warden since forever and the melee AA was the best that could have happened to a warden. In a classic raid MT group has a defiler to ward, a templar to heal and a warden to fill up. Wardens where always the last of the three in the healing chain. Now, with a melee warden i not only fill with my AA while doing damage,i also heal with items that proc. That way i never use a single heal on trash. I just melee. MT group is always filled up and i do contribute to the overall raid dps. I am not scared standing toe to toe with lots of mitigation from AA speced wolf illusion. Thats good.The situation changes on nameds. Not all but some. On some i go on distance and use my casts, on some i dont do any dps but heal only and cure. However, there is no named that is able to exhaust my warden. If something goes bad or if i am in a not so experienced PUG raid i am always last man standing and i always have power left while all other healers, that includes furys, are oom.

Oosu

11-13-2007, 11:44 AM

It's silly to say the a melee warden can heal better than a warden specced mainly for healing. For one. It requires a fair amount of STR gear to become decent dps and justify the melee spec. You will be not using alot of healing gear. How many pieces have + healing and +crit with str on it? Exactly. I have about 400+ healing currently. None of it has any str. I also sit around 55-60% heal crit. Again, VERY few pieces with those stats have STR. In order to be decent at melee you are foregoing alot of beneficial healing items in place of str enhancing items. How does that make sense and in what world are you living in that would make the statement 'Melee wardens heal the same if not better than healing spex wardens' ( paraphrasing a bit). true? In instances and raids. Yes melee can heal just fine and are very capable to do it. I am not arguring that. However. You are not better. You will be subpar compared at healing warden specialzed in that. No arguement. basically all the mlee wardens are saying is +heal + crit +healing% +wisdom gear is pointless. You can't have str on those items.( just to reiterate ). Flame me all you want. Stay melee specced. It's just a game play what you enjoy. Just don't dissilusion yourself just because are able to heal some instances/raid encounters. You can do it. Just not as efficient/better than a healing warden Thanks-Oosu

dpsman

11-13-2007, 12:03 PM

<cite>Oosu@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's silly to say the a melee warden can heal better than a warden specced mainly for healing. For one. It requires a fair amount of STR gear to become decent dps and justify the melee spec. You will be not using alot of healing gear. How many pieces have + healing and +crit with str on it? Exactly. I have about 400+ healing currently. None of it has any str. I also sit around 55-60% heal crit. Again, VERY few pieces with those stats have STR. In order to be decent at melee you are foregoing alot of beneficial healing items in place of str enhancing items. How does that make sense and in what world are you living in that would make the statement 'Melee wardens heal the same if not better than healing spex wardens' ( paraphrasing a bit). true? In instances and raids. Yes melee can heal just fine and are very capable to do it. I am not arguring that. However. You are not better. You will be subpar compared at healing warden specialzed in that. No arguement. basically all the mlee wardens are saying is +heal + crit +healing% +wisdom gear is pointless. You can't have str on those items.( just to reiterate ). Flame me all you want. Stay melee specced. It's just a game play what you enjoy. Just don't dissilusion yourself just because are able to heal some instances/raid encounters. You can do it. Just not as efficient/better than a healing warden Thanks-Oosu</blockquote>Let me guess, you have no data to back any of this up.Melee warden can heal just as good and if any of ya want proof, shoot my warden Grainer a tell on Crushbone, I'll prove ya wrong.The only thing you have done diff in the AA line is go down AGI, and that make you a healing warden? Do me a favor and don't comment on the subject till have had the proper experience with both AA spec's. I have 2 lvl 70 Warden's so have healed in RAID SISTUATIONS with both specs.Warden's aren't even desired in raids as much anymore, so don't be so foolish to think that your hot's ticking a bit faster are making a big diff in the raid.

gita

11-13-2007, 12:27 PM

<cite>dpsman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Let me guess, you have no data to back any of this up.Melee warden can heal just as good and if any of ya want proof, shoot my warden Grainer a tell on Crushbone, I'll prove ya wrong.The only thing you have done diff in the AA line is go down AGI, and that make you a healing warden? Do me a favor and don't comment on the subject till have had the proper experience with both AA spec's. I have 2 lvl 70 Warden's so have healed in RAID SISTUATIONS with both specs.Warden's aren't even desired in raids as much anymore, so don't be so foolish to think that your hot's ticking a bit faster are making a big diff in the raid.</blockquote>lol and where its your data to prove a STR spec warden can heal equal or better then one AGI/STA spec ? cause u got a melee mediocre heal proc who its outhealed by a simple raid instance item, like the hammer from TNT ?i know the reply.... there its no one, u cant prove that.Deny a AGI/STA warden can heal for more its plain DUMB, just use common sense, fast ticking regens and more crit heals...And yes i raid, killed everything on my warden in MT group from KOS to EOF minus mischief and fear, and played on all AA combinations, yes melee ones too.Geting tyred of every complain on RAID GEAR from ppl who not even raid... and that its not directly for you.For ppl commenting there and not raiding just a HINT... go complain somewhere else, this thread its about RAIDING GEAR

gatrm

11-13-2007, 12:59 PM

"Healing speced warden"Now there's an oxymoron. THERE IS NO HEALING SPEC FOR A WARDEN IN EITHER THE KOS OR EOF LINES that makes a bit of difference to our overall healing output. STR line gives a nice proc, STA crits are ok, but not make or break, and speeding up a heal tick with AGI line does not allow you to heal for more, especially since the warden heals only kick in AFTER the defiler/templar.Take the EOF line....Cures? those things are useless since they were nerfed. Where else will you spend your points? May as well be somewhere that you can have FUN while healing.I do raid...or used to until having to switch to dirge because warden was not needed, especially with the changes to hate. If it's a tough fight, then sure, the melee warden is standing back and healing, just like the caster. I have posted elsewhere my ideas to fix the class and I am not going to get back into that. I will reiterate however, that a caster/melee spec has no effect on healing ability or potential. You purist casters need to get over yourselves. There is no good reason that soe cannot have an npc to give alternate gear similar to how hooloh gave the alternate hats for the Barren sky hat quest...str for those wardens wanting str and int for the casters. All I am asking for is that we be allowed to melee without handicapping ourselves. Thus far, I have been able to find str gear without giving up healing ability.

GinFan

11-13-2007, 01:23 PM

Having a seperate gear set for melee is stupid. It is a timesink hassle that only address one tier of players. Instead make our CA damage calc based upon corresponding spell damage amounts instead of strength... this will satisfy the melee, the caster and the hybrid Wardens in all tiers.

dpsman

11-13-2007, 01:39 PM

<cite>GinFan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Having a seperate gear set for melee is stupid. It is a timesink hassle that only address one tier of players. Instead make our CA damage calc based upon corresponding spell damage amounts instead of strength... this will satisfy the melee, the caster and the hybrid Wardens in all tiers.</blockquote>I totaly agree,The str/sta vs agi/sta debate is probably stupid now anyway. The only logical pure healing spec will be str/agi/sta with the new Rok aa's anyway. So now us melee Warden's get the best of both world's, although I'm sure the leet raiding Warden's will go agi/sta/int and convince themselve's it's the pure healing spec.

gita

11-13-2007, 02:19 PM

the problem on str template its you as a raid warden are speced for kill trash, honestly in which tough raid bosses on MT group a warden can melee ??on eof the only hard/contested where the STR template its the best its PHH, in other "hard" mobs in eof, if avatars can be considered hard, u cant melee really, and proly if u meleing on one of that fights u are a waste of space, but on that encounters u can do range nukes or ae nukes on adds easy.I like the STR template, but for solo/group or "trash" killing mobs in raids... STR template add nothing usefull to raid wardens in the hard encounters.

tendo2

11-17-2007, 04:46 PM

It's a double edged sword whether to melee spec or not it's not unheard of for a melee spec warden to break 1k dps with little impact on healing ability. I can't deny the benefits of very frequent procs from boon (that cost nothing to cast). But it does rely on being able to melee said mob. Which we can on quite a few mobs. The Agi line does give a nice boost to initial ticks of regen I often find myself attempting to keep regen up all the time and the reduced duration annoys me but I can't deny the bonus you get on the initial tick on the heals now. I don't really see that big a difference between str/agi in terms of healing.My last run against Wuoshi my natural boon was at least 13% of my total heals about 40,000 hps (i don't remember the exact numbers) not bad for not having to cast or anything it just comes off auto attack swings would a 24% boost to the initial ticks of chloro and fierce chloro heal that hard in the same fight. in that fight I doubt it. I can see it being better than boon in many other fights that don't draw alot of AoE damage though. It's the DPS difference between str/agi that is the deal here. Honesty I'm either gonna want new gear to be a better melee spec or I can continue with my casting ways of old. Both seem to get the healing job done very well. But with RoK i really don't need to be limited in those ways one could probe into str agi and sta. I think the melee line has potential but I just don't like the gear we have for it or I'd be all over it. I had recently switched back to AGI more for a need for Tort shell than anything else and abondoned the str line (for now) but admittingly I feel frustrated trying to finding gear that suits the line that I like. Now if they make conventional Warden gear that also had some strength or a proc thats any attack not just casting or what not then I can't complain.

ELITEO

11-19-2007, 04:06 AM

LOL ... this argument is still going on ? ....Let me sum it up for you's allMele Warden Cannot Heal as much as a Sta/agi speced warden especially with + heal gear ....do the math.The point isnt that mele wardens arent capable of healing enough for a raid force , while still doing some decent dmg to boot.Hasnt every elitist raiding warden been complaining that we dont bring enough to the table to justify our spot ....Hence who cares how much beyond the needed healing we can do in the practiced raid force ....The Awesome healing potential is only needed for the unpracticed , and you have to be an awesome button pusher to boot for the real heavy situations.I say [Removed for Content] both heal lines and pick Str/Int for the mele/caster hybrid .... you can still heal well enough when you need to(have master heals) by throwing on some gear , and just switching shapeshift.

dpsman

11-19-2007, 05:35 AM

<cite>ELITEONE wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL ... this argument is still going on ? ....Let me sum it up for you's allMele Warden Cannot Heal as much as a Sta/agi speced warden especially with + heal gear ....do the math.The point isnt that mele wardens arent capable of healing enough for a raid force , while still doing some decent dmg to boot.Hasnt every elitist raiding warden been complaining that we dont bring enough to the table to justify our spot ....Hence who cares how much beyond the needed healing we can do in the practiced raid force ....The Awesome healing potential is only needed for the unpracticed , and you have to be an awesome button pusher to boot for the real heavy situations.I say [I cannot control my vocabulary] both heal lines and pick Str/Int for the mele/caster hybrid .... you can still heal well enough when you need to(have master heals) by throwing on some gear , and just switching shapeshift.</blockquote>Is it possible for you to understand that melee specced wardens have 2 sets of gear, yes we have just as much + heal gear and guess what we have a heal proc you dont have. Don't think for a minute that having your hot tick faster makes you a better healer or heal for more, if anything I would say you would run out of mana faster from overcasting hots.And why do you say a melee Warden can't heal as much? have you tested this theory? Let me guess it;s just your opinion or is it the cookie cutter mold that raid leaders brainwash raiders into?Faster hots do not heal for more; but boon adds something when able to melee that you cant add, do the math.

Kri

11-19-2007, 06:22 AM

<cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nevertheless, if the devs would be wise, they would let you change the stats on the fables sets to better suit the melee wardens. Win-win situation and noone could complain. *shrug*I mostly solo, for this i have to say that wardens are hands down the best class i've yet played. Granted, i have not tested necro yet... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> For grouping and < the warden DPS is very nice imo (atleast the melee one) and i have to say that if a fury can do better... then let em. Im having fun atm and since i wont be getting any fables equipment, ever, i really dont care if they but only INT to the warden fabled sets actually.++Xan</blockquote>I agree. Just add an NPC that would let you swap INT for STR and change the damage procs from spells to CAs. Simple solution and everyone's happy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ELITEO

11-19-2007, 07:21 AM

<cite>dpsman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ELITEONE wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL ... this argument is still going on ? ....Let me sum it up for you's allMele Warden Cannot Heal as much as a Sta/agi speced warden especially with + heal gear ....do the math.The point isnt that mele wardens arent capable of healing enough for a raid force , while still doing some decent dmg to boot.Hasnt every elitist raiding warden been complaining that we dont bring enough to the table to justify our spot ....Hence who cares how much beyond the needed healing we can do in the practiced raid force ....The Awesome healing potential is only needed for the unpracticed , and you have to be an awesome button pusher to boot for the real heavy situations.I say [I cannot control my vocabulary] both heal lines and pick Str/Int for the mele/caster hybrid .... you can still heal well enough when you need to(have master heals) by throwing on some gear , and just switching shapeshift.</blockquote>Is it possible for you to understand that melee specced wardens have 2 sets of gear, yes we have just as much + heal gear and guess what we have a heal proc you dont have. Don't think for a minute that having your hot tick faster makes you a better healer or heal for more, if anything I would say you would run out of mana faster from overcasting hots.And why do you say a melee Warden can't heal as much? have you tested this theory? Let me guess it;s just your opinion or is it the cookie cutter mold that raid leaders brainwash raiders into?Faster hots do not heal for more; but boon adds something when able to melee that you cant add, do the math.</blockquote>I am on your side ... maybe i drank to much to understand and dont need to state that .im sorry though if you do the math of what the heal proc brings compared to the agi line and sta line ... with the same quality spells .... The healing potential is greaterBut comparitivley speaking what really happens the natural boon is mo better imoWhat these elitist are arguing is the math ... wich the mele warden will lose .... if you want the actual brk down ...then by all means continue this ... looks very interesting .... i will brk out my calculator and post.

Fromingo

11-20-2007, 06:02 AM

Why is there an argument about this? You can take most of the cool stuff in 3 lines now and have both "heal" lines and another line like str or int.

Oakum

11-23-2007, 04:30 PM

<cite>Katrinity@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Did it ever cross anyone's minds that maybe the optimal raid spec for a warden isn't the melee line???The more raid gear I got the more I realized how useless that line was, if you want to dps betray and play a fury that's my advice wardens from what I see are getting more and more defensive (and no new dps)</blockquote> We are not getting more defensive at all as wardens, our defensive abilities are the same, we recieved no new buffs or anythingWith 20 more AA's in both lines, a good warden can be either melee or nuke specced. When healing is required no healer is nuking but they could be meleeing using auto attack. I guess its a matter of wanting to contribute something when your primary skills are not required. My advice to you is that if you want to be a druid (whos primary skill is healing secondary is DPS) and think nuking is the ony way to achieve the secondary skill then betray to fury and be happy with only the option to nuke. You could also make a new toon and be a defiler if all you want to do is heal and buff the tank and sit on your back side when that is not required twiddling your thumbs. Well they do debuff too. I shouldn't be mean to defilers but that is not an option for wardens. After LU-13 we were balanced, wardens healed a LITTLE more then fury's and furys DPS's a LITTLE more then fury's, but KOS/EOF destroyed the balance. EoF had the opportunity to fix it with the Melee AA line but there is a severe lack of gear to support it. I have nothing against wardens who are happy with the imbalance between druids in our secondary side. They can be gimped if it makes them happy and all they ever plan on doing is healing. At least until they telling my I should betray to fury who cant melee anyway. Then I start having issues with them wanting all wardens to remain a mediocre class. They probably have a mage or scout alts so that when wardens are no longer needed for raiding they can swith to them to have something to do when they have done all the non epic quest and maxed their tradeskills up on their wardens.

Oakum

11-23-2007, 04:46 PM

<cite>Renarde@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Our DPS is naturally INT based. But we aren't furies, we aren't the DPS healer, neither spell nor melee dps, in a raiding environnement.We are the defensive aspect of the druid. We can DPS, but it's not our primary or even our secondary role. We are a MT tank healer, we are a buff and eventually we can DPS. But EOF has shown the DPS progression involve aggro management, and reconsideration of the warden in the mt group. Moreover, this involve a reconsideration of the warden in the raid because outside of the MT group, our buffs are not enough crucial to be really usefull.So, DPS (INT or STR) questions seem trivial, and in a raiding purpose it must not be important. Nevertheless, we shoud pay attention our raiding progression evolution. It don't want to be another 90% DPS -10%healing time healer as for EOF.I'm sorry, my english is not fluently as it'd like to be.</blockquote>THeir is that defensive myth again. The only way we are more defensive then Fury's is in our self buff and a wisdom buff for resistances which mean almost nothing with diminishing returns. The fury defensive buffs are just as good as ours, just different. A fury could take a wardens place in the MT group and the only effect woudl be slightly less healing from not being quite as power effecient. There is more to playing then raiding and a nuking fury<strike> </strike>warden can use their gear outside of raids. A meleeing warden would not be able to. A Druid is a Healer/DPS hybrid and always has been since EQ1. Why would any druid be half of what they should be? The fury's fought long and hard to bring their healing up to par with ours and finally got it in LU-13. Why should we accept being gimped.

Oakum

11-23-2007, 06:29 PM

<cite>Gitana@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>the problem on str template its you as a raid warden are speced for kill trash, honestly in which tough raid bosses on MT group a warden can melee ??on eof the only hard/contested where the STR template its the best its PHH, in other "hard" mobs in eof, if avatars can be considered hard, u cant melee really, and proly if u meleing on one of that fights u are a waste of space, but on that encounters u can do range nukes or ae nukes on adds easy.I like the STR template, but for solo/group or "trash" killing mobs in raids... STR template add nothing usefull to raid wardens in the hard encounters.</blockquote>So here the question, why would you care if there is str/ca instead of int/spell enhancements for secondary stats on raid gear if you are doing nothing but healing on hard named mobs anyway? No one is saying to take the healing enhancements off the gear. At least not that I have seen. Eventually wardens become a waste of space on raids as their healing is not required and a fury in the mt group can do much better DPS, have slightly different but equivilant defensive buffs, and their DH's do not overwrite each other being all DH with no regen portion. A wardens ability to heal more through power efficiency becomes uselesss when healing is not required past what the other 5 healers can do. So what benefit does a warden give to the raid in general that a fury can't do better. Its not buffs, its not debuffs (neither classes have much of those) and the druidic secondary ability of DPS is way better on the fury side. Killing even trash mobs a little bit faster is better for the raid then having someone along for the ride and the chance at free fabled but not carrying their share of the load. That being said, being one of the people putting raids together for my alliance, I will always make sure a warden (me) is in the raid. Of course I am just biased that way, lol. I raid to do quests, help out my guild members who want to raid, and to relieve boredom when everything else I can do is done.