Now that the NDA is lifted... Mystic Woes! (Updated info inside) [Archive]

Ordate

11-09-2007, 10:34 PM

Ok for those of you not in beta here is a quick run down on the state of the mystic.1) Any spell that is percentage based is not being upgraded. No big concern I didn't expect the debuffs to keep going up.2) Combat Arts are not going up in damage with level. Aka once you hit 70 the amount of damage our combat arts do is fixed except for strength. Major issue. People have been asking about this in beta. No response. If this worries others as it does me get on the horn.3) Fable set doesn't reflect the majority of mystics out there. Most mystics agree, buff & combat line is the only way to go. Our Fable set has 0 strength on the entire set. Also there is no + combat art damage everything is + spell damage (and a lot of it) also it has +7% crit... Im sure Im not the only one that sees that as pointless.4) We will no longer be able to use most of our clickies to keep our mana at an acceptable level for raiding. Tribal spiritist hat, doomseer leggings, etc. We are going to suffer some major mana problems. This will impact class balance between mystics and defilers heavily. SOE doesn't seem to be aware or will not acknowledge the problems this will cause. I'm ok with them getting rid of clickies by us not being able to change out gear IF they do a pass on the classes and see how much it screws some over.The positives: 1) You still have this coming sunday for double xp to roll a new class and race if you want to compete on the high end level. If you are an odd combo of race class you will not be as effective as a core idea set up.2) The world is pretty?3) I need a drink.

Rorack

11-10-2007, 03:12 AM

<cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote>4) We will no longer be able to use most of our clickies to keep our mana at an acceptable level for raiding. Tribal spiritist hat, doomseer leggings, etc. We are going to suffer some major mana problems. This will impact class balance between mystics and defilers heavily. SOE doesn't seem to be aware or will not acknowledge the problems this will cause. I'm ok with them getting rid of clickies by us not being able to change out gear IF they do a pass on the classes and see how much it screws some over.</blockquote>This works for every slot, even charm? This will kill tinkering (not that it was all that powerful to begin with) if so. All the good tinkered items (manastone, lifestone, FD item) have to be equipped to use I think.

Ordate

11-10-2007, 03:29 AM

Tinkered items are going to be made to be useable from inventory. Primary and secondary are the only slots that are going to be changeable.

inshiningarmor

11-10-2007, 06:58 AM

We really need all Mystics to step up and make their voice heard. The gap between Mystics and defilers has increased greatly. The mobs are causing more damage and we have even less power. As it stands now raids are going to think twice about bringing a second defiler instead of a Mystic. Hell right now I am all for taking away our heals... beafing up our pet to ^ give us some buffs for it... and call us beastlords. Things are messed up so badly already =( DPS debuff and ward a little... Mystics need some help

Ordate

11-10-2007, 07:50 AM

Ok one small thing down. Looks like they updated our CAs. Here are the numbers for a live server level 70 89 str, a beta level 75 88 str and a beta 80 89 str. Will be in level order (70,75,80) and will be only including initial hit values. Again with approx 89 str for all 3.Circle: 622-760, 684-836, 748-914Chilling: 414-506, 456-557, 498-609Glacial: 311-380, 342-418, 374-457Feverish: 201, 213, 241So the good news our CAs are scaling again. Now if we can get them to look at some of the other serious problems such as the fabled set gear armor stats and abilities, mana issues that will cause of to have problems even competeing with the defiler, and Im still wishing for an EoF AA tree reform where they get rid of the bloody rez line. Ya I know the last is a pipe dream that I get a feeling isnt going to happen.Originally posted this in the beta board under a relevant thread.

Oneira

11-11-2007, 03:17 AM

<cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok one small thing down. Looks like they updated our CAs. Here are the numbers for a live server level 70 89 str, a beta level 75 88 str and a beta 80 89 str. Will be in level order (70,75,80) and will be only including initial hit values. Again with approx 89 str for all 3.Circle: 622-760, 684-836, 748-914Chilling: 414-506, 456-557, 498-609Glacial: 311-380, 342-418, 374-457Feverish: 201, 213, 241So the good news our CAs are scaling again. Now if we can get them to look at some of the other serious problems such as the fabled set gear armor stats and abilities, mana issues that will cause of to have problems even competeing with the defiler, and Im still wishing for an EoF AA tree reform where they get rid of the bloody rez line. Ya I know the last is a pipe dream that I get a feeling isnt going to happen.Originally posted this in the beta board under a relevant thread.</blockquote>So, so true. When I first saw that rez line I was incredulous. That plus the immediate nerfing of the cures line makes the Mystic AA trees one of the worst, with the only saving grace being the combat line.I really agree here, we should push for a EOF AA tree reform, or at least tell SOE just how crappy it is. So where do I sign?

KatrinaDeath

11-11-2007, 05:18 AM

<cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok one small thing down. Looks like they updated our CAs. Here are the numbers for a live server level 70 89 str, a beta level 75 88 str and a beta 80 89 str. Will be in level order (70,75,80) and will be only including initial hit values. Again with approx 89 str for all 3.Circle: 622-760, 684-836, 748-914Chilling: 414-506, 456-557, 498-609Glacial: 311-380, 342-418, 374-457Feverish: 201, 213, 241So the good news our CAs are scaling again. Now if we can get them to look at some of the other serious problems such as the fabled set gear armor stats and abilities, mana issues that will cause of to have problems even competeing with the defiler, and Im still wishing for an EoF AA tree reform where they get rid of the bloody rez line. Ya I know the last is a pipe dream that I get a feeling isnt going to happen.Originally posted this in the beta board under a relevant thread.</blockquote>This is good news for me. Right now at level 65 my Circle hits for 814-995 with 627 STR. Granted I play on Nagafen. This means with continued STR this will do about 1300 before the crit.I've noticed every other class forum is blowing up with posts regarding RoK and I see not much here. Any screenies of our spells? Legendary set?(If one exists) Fabled raid set?And our final ability seem good when compared to others. (See: Shadowknight)

TheSpin

11-11-2007, 05:26 AM

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok one small thing down. Looks like they updated our CAs. Here are the numbers for a live server level 70 89 str, a beta level 75 88 str and a beta 80 89 str. Will be in level order (70,75,80) and will be only including initial hit values. Again with approx 89 str for all 3.Circle: 622-760, 684-836, 748-914Chilling: 414-506, 456-557, 498-609Glacial: 311-380, 342-418, 374-457Feverish: 201, 213, 241So the good news our CAs are scaling again. Now if we can get them to look at some of the other serious problems such as the fabled set gear armor stats and abilities, mana issues that will cause of to have problems even competeing with the defiler, and Im still wishing for an EoF AA tree reform where they get rid of the bloody rez line. Ya I know the last is a pipe dream that I get a feeling isnt going to happen.Originally posted this in the beta board under a relevant thread.</blockquote>This is good news for me. Right now at level 65 my Circle hits for 814-995 with 627 STR. Granted I play on Nagafen. This means with continued STR this will do about 1300 before the crit.I've noticed every other class forum is blowing up with posts regarding RoK and I see not much here. Any screenies of our spells? Legendary set?(If one exists) Fabled raid set?And our final ability seem good when compared to others. (See: Shadowknight)</blockquote>After you learn exactly how the shadowknight ability works, you will not be saying that. It's up on par with Peel and the other really nice abilities they gave to fighters.At least mystics and defilers are both complaining about RoK. Means they might have got it right.

KatrinaDeath

11-11-2007, 06:06 AM

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok one small thing down. Looks like they updated our CAs. Here are the numbers for a live server level 70 89 str, a beta level 75 88 str and a beta 80 89 str. Will be in level order (70,75,80) and will be only including initial hit values. Again with approx 89 str for all 3.Circle: 622-760, 684-836, 748-914Chilling: 414-506, 456-557, 498-609Glacial: 311-380, 342-418, 374-457Feverish: 201, 213, 241So the good news our CAs are scaling again. Now if we can get them to look at some of the other serious problems such as the fabled set gear armor stats and abilities, mana issues that will cause of to have problems even competeing with the defiler, and Im still wishing for an EoF AA tree reform where they get rid of the bloody rez line. Ya I know the last is a pipe dream that I get a feeling isnt going to happen.Originally posted this in the beta board under a relevant thread.</blockquote>This is good news for me. Right now at level 65 my Circle hits for 814-995 with 627 STR. Granted I play on Nagafen. This means with continued STR this will do about 1300 before the crit.I've noticed every other class forum is blowing up with posts regarding RoK and I see not much here. Any screenies of our spells? Legendary set?(If one exists) Fabled raid set?And our final ability seem good when compared to others. (See: Shadowknight)</blockquote>After you learn exactly how the shadowknight ability works, you will not be saying that. It's up on par with Peel and the other really nice abilities they gave to fighters.At least mystics and defilers are both complaining about RoK. Means they might have got it right.</blockquote>I went Mystic about a month ago. I really like the melee spec but miss the power regen. Too bad nothing got added for us in that area. If only they traded the rez line for something like Cannabalize.But at the end of the day this is still pre-RoK and nothing will tell you how nerfed you got til you log in. I'm just hoping for some screenies.

TheSpin

11-11-2007, 06:09 AM

I'm leveling a mystic and enjoying it very much, but I definately agree that the power regen issue is a real concern I have.

inshiningarmor

11-11-2007, 03:02 PM

If you look at the beta boards, alot of zerkers and Mystics gave up and are just betraying.

Shammi

11-12-2007, 05:15 PM

Can someone post information about our spells -- names, levels, etc. Most classes have this info already on their boards.

Owlbe

11-12-2007, 05:40 PM

Mystic71 - Prophetic Ward71 - Rejuvination72 - Ancestral Mettle72 - Premonition72 - Stoicism72 - Velium Winds73 - Lunar Attendant73 - Ritual Healing73 - Spirit of the Mastadon74 - Revenge of the Ancients74 - Runic Armor74 - Slothiness75 - Ancestral Avatar76 - Ancestral Balm76 - Deteriorate76 - Ursine Avatar77 - Ice Age78 - Ancient Aegis78 - Epidemic79 - Echoes of the Ancients79 - Spirits80 - Ancestral Savior80 - Ancestral Sentry - summons a pet that absorbs damage done to nearby allies80 - Transcendent Aid80 - Oberon Obstruction

Shammi

11-12-2007, 09:31 PM

TY for the info. If you get a chance - could you include info about the amount of change or info on any diff spells that aren't in a progression line?

KatrinaDeath

11-13-2007, 01:06 AM

Come on beta mystics... I see almost everyother class board had screenshots and full spell lists with discriptions. I know some of you are busy betraying to Defiler but I plan to stay Mystic and would really like to see what I'm in for while the downtime goes on.

JamesRay

11-13-2007, 10:28 AM

There are some screenies in this link:<a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/mystics/14573-mystic-t8-spells.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2flames.com/mystics/14...-t8-spells.html</a>

SnAke19

11-13-2007, 10:32 AM

Do the same betrayDevs are fully aware that we mysts can´t compete with our sisterclass - there were enough treads to show this and it seems its ok for them that there´s one class who is totally superior to another - and the difference becomes higher and higer from addon to addonI for myself think that even the advantage in dmg with combatline was more or less only a mistake which now with rok is going to be corrected so that defilers in future will also do more dmg than we doSo whats the purpose for us mystics?cap on debuffs can also be reached without a mystic hmBolster and Torpor are nice spells but do nothing real greatour aas are nearly useless (cureline without the ability to cure us from stuns or stifles->totally useless, rezzline->i could not hold my vocabulary,buffline with endabilty that encreases triggerchance of only one target and boost of oberon barrier a spell with no purpose in ot grp -> cheap,a dmg line which first no one wanted - but then some of us learned to love-> little consolation whichs flair is going to be taken away again with roks new scaling of our combatarts and the zero str on our setarmor)so don´t anger any longer take the step and betray - there ´s no light on the end of the tunnel

TheSpin

11-13-2007, 10:45 AM

I see the difference between the two classes....from both a power pool and a healing perspective as very specific things and these new spells keep in line with the two classes pretty well.Defilers are all about big heals to keep a single target going while he takes on a single mob. He has to use quite a bit of power to do this job and also has ways to regain that power.Mystics are all about reducing the damage of mobs and preventing damage from large groups. Since large groups tend to include many small hits for less damage mystics get more 'freebie' heals that are passive or keep working over a longer period of time than the big defiler heals.I have a mid 30's mystic and a mid 30's defiler and the difference at my level is not so big, but I see it even in the 30s with the shaman's buff that absorbs the first bit of any physical attack. I will admit that my defiler is the easier one to heal with, but that is only because he's str specced and my mystic is agility specced. My mystic is a lot more fun to actually play because I get sick of the long cast times on the defiler.

Banditman

11-13-2007, 11:10 AM

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see the difference between the two classes....from both a power pool and a healing perspective as very specific things and these new spells keep in line with the two classes pretty well.Defilers are all about big heals to keep a single target going while he takes on a single mob. He has to use quite a bit of power to do this job and also has ways to regain that power.No they don't. Defilers burn health, their heals use less power than Mystic heals and have a health cost. Granted, that health cost is offset by their altered form which has a rather large health regen built in to it. In terms of healing per second, Mystics and Defilers are nearly identical. The difference is that Defilers have significantly greater power regen by virtue of their heals costing health which is constantly replenishing.Mystics are all about reducing the damage of mobs and preventing damage from large groups. Since large groups tend to include many small hits for less damage mystics get more 'freebie' heals that are passive or keep working over a longer period of time than the big defiler heals.Interesting. Please, enlighten us as to what "freebie" heals Mystics get. I'd love to know, since I've never seen one. As far as reducing damage from many mobs . . . you're kidding right? Even if you assume that mobs have a Haste / DPS buff cap of 200 (it's actually higher, but let's not quibble) our ability to debuff a mob is very minor. We can debuff 27 Haste and 39 DPS on a single target. Our encounter DPS debuff (Umbral Trap) is shared with Defilers. Our encounter Haste debuff is 26. Again, these are 10 to 15 percent debuffs. Not exactly earth shattering, and certainly nothing that other classes are unable to do.I have a mid 30's mystic and a mid 30's defiler and the difference at my level is not so big, but I see it even in the 30s with the shaman's buff that absorbs the first bit of any physical attack. I will admit that my defiler is the easier one to heal with, but that is only because he's str specced and my mystic is agility specced. My mystic is a lot more fun to actually play because I get sick of the long cast times on the defiler.Call us back when you get to level cap and still feel the same.</blockquote>

Whitewing

11-13-2007, 11:26 AM

I went to eq2flames they have the mystic gear posted there and when i saw them my excitement died...the gear doesn't fit the class or the AA's for a mystic I'm extremely disappointed. I don't see why they would put in gear for a mystic with no strength no combat art damage when the mystics only 1 up on defilers is their melee line.So there is no ca dmg.. no mana regenerate.. poor deubuffs compared to the defiler and weaker buffs then them... In raids defilers are usually preferred to mystics for the mt group because of the defilers superior hp buff and regeneration, without any power management the mystic will just be a crutch in the off tank group at best.... This is the gear from the hardest raid mobs designed to be the elite for mystics.. i wonder if the legendary gear from heroic instances will be prefered to them. But i'm going to keep my faith and stay a mystic for now assuming they wont leave this abysmal gear thats clearly an inappropriate match for usWith the gear they came up with for mystic i wonder how much time/research they really put into it..I know that mystics are a very small percentage of the players but i don't think we deserved this poorly constructed gear.. (the gear isnt the only problem)I don't think mystics have alot of hope as far as endgame goesPlease SOE take the advice of the people who were on beta and change this gear for the better

TheSpin

11-13-2007, 11:28 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see the difference between the two classes....from both a power pool and a healing perspective as very specific things and these new spells keep in line with the two classes pretty well.Defilers are all about big heals to keep a single target going while he takes on a single mob. He has to use quite a bit of power to do this job and also has ways to regain that power.No they don't. Defilers burn health, their heals use less power than Mystic heals and have a health cost. Granted, that health cost is offset by their altered form which has a rather large health regen built in to it. In terms of healing per second, Mystics and Defilers are nearly identical. The difference is that Defilers have significantly greater power regen by virtue of their heals costing health which is constantly replenishing.Mystics are all about reducing the damage of mobs and preventing damage from large groups. Since large groups tend to include many small hits for less damage mystics get more 'freebie' heals that are passive or keep working over a longer period of time than the big defiler heals.Interesting. Please, enlighten us as to what "freebie" heals Mystics get. I'd love to know, since I've never seen one. As far as reducing damage from many mobs . . . you're kidding right? Even if you assume that mobs have a Haste / DPS buff cap of 200 (it's actually higher, but let's not quibble) our ability to debuff a mob is very minor. We can debuff 27 Haste and 39 DPS on a single target. Our encounter DPS debuff (Umbral Trap) is shared with Defilers. Our encounter Haste debuff is 26. Again, these are 10 to 15 percent debuffs. Not exactly earth shattering, and certainly nothing that other classes are unable to do.I have a mid 30's mystic and a mid 30's defiler and the difference at my level is not so big, but I see it even in the 30s with the shaman's buff that absorbs the first bit of any physical attack. I will admit that my defiler is the easier one to heal with, but that is only because he's str specced and my mystic is agility specced. My mystic is a lot more fun to actually play because I get sick of the long cast times on the defiler.Call us back when you get to level cap and still feel the same.</blockquote></blockquote>OK, freebie heals. Mystics get a buff that blocks the first X amount of physical damage. Defilers get a buff that blocks the first X amount of spell damage. The melee damage is superior in 90% of the content in this game. Plus I'm not sure exactly how oberron barrier or whatever it's called works, but I think the amount it heals for the power it costs is way better than anything defilers have.You're absolutely right that I don't have all of the knowledge I need to make a truly educated decision. I do have a 70 inquisitor so I'm familiar with healing in end game, but not very familiar with shaman/defiler healing.I think the new spell does match my statements above and if raids start to consist of many mobs at once instead of 1 big mob then mystics would get a slight edge. I'm guessing there's a good chance the new raids might be leaning this direction after seeing some of the other level 80 spells.

GidionSWE

11-13-2007, 11:29 AM

my dream would be to have the rezz line changed to a mana regen line of some sorts and the cure line altered so that if we put points in them we could cast them while under control effects. With this we'd be faced with real choices.. Also sign me up for a redesigned class set...for something sposed to be the best of the best for us it sure sucks [Removed for Content] for us.

BALTO

11-13-2007, 12:00 PM

Was playing with the idea of returning to the game...but now...hmmm...went on vacation for 3 months, things seemed well enough with the class, minor deflation of a few things that made the game fun for mystics, but what i'm reading here...well i'm not surprised one bit. dev's sure know how to suck the fun out of life as a mystic!was a great two months while it lasted, finally seeing mystics in the main tank group on raids.*SNIFFLES* was fun while it lasted.

TheSpin

11-13-2007, 12:22 PM

<cite>BALTO wrote:</cite><blockquote>Was playing with the idea of returning to the game...but now...hmmm...went on vacation for 3 months, things seemed well enough with the class, minor deflation of a few things that made the game fun for mystics, but what i'm reading here...well i'm not surprised one bit. dev's sure know how to suck the fun out of life as a mystic!was a great two months while it lasted, finally seeing mystics in the main tank group on raids.*SNIFFLES* was fun while it lasted.</blockquote>I feel like every class has some kind of role and defiler have spells that make them belong in the MT group. That doesn't mean mystics don't have an equally important role in the raid.

Owlbe

11-13-2007, 12:54 PM

I would have posted more info on the mystic spell lines but frankly there is not a lot of info on the beta boards. The melee ca's are scaling badly imo, mystics are having serious power problems now made even worse by not being allowed to switch out armor pieces in combat that might have had power clickies on them. Most of the talk is people creating Defilers and trying them out and are now convinced to betray then RoK is live. The Defilers superior buffing/single target debuffing, power management and healing is swaying a lot of people over. This was SoE's last ditch to help the Mystics weaknesses and they failed badly.

Whitewing

11-13-2007, 12:57 PM

apparently you haven't been paying attention1. Mystics dont need to be in raid to get mob to maximum debuffed amount therefore not needed for debuffs2. Mystics have no power management, it would be better to have a defiler in the main tank group and a defiler in the off tank group because the mystic wouldn't be able to maintain power throughout the fight3. Mystics dps suffers because of the int based gear they're giving us--- mystics are not an essential raiding tool from what i can tell

Banditman

11-13-2007, 01:58 PM

The problems that Mystics have are really quite simple, and I'm surprised that no one has yet articulated the major premise.Mystics have no unique role in a raid environment.I'm in no way saying Mystics are alone in this regard, but this is a pretty irrefutable statement of fact.I do think that we need to get a little perspective here. When you consider something like a Templar, man, those guys really do have some pain points. Sure, every raid has a place for a Templar in the raid. One Templar. In the MT group. Same thing for Wardens. One Warden, and into the MT group he goes.After that, excess Wardens and Templars? Why bother? Bring something different instead unless there is a very specific need, probably some sort of AE cure. After that, it's simply a matter of having 6 or 7 healers in the raid, and if you can have one of each type, so much the better. More useful to bring a Mystic than a second Warden or Templar, if there is one available.Mystics are not alone in their lack of additional functionality, the major difference is that unlike the need for a Warden or Templar in the MT group, Mystics are not going to see that one guaranteed spot in a raid. We are simply "another healer" in the overall scheme of things.Currently, Mystics and Defilers are quite even in their per server demographics. There are ever so slightly more Mystics at L70 than Defilers. When we get to L80, we'll see what happens. Perhaps more Mystics have been abandoned at L70 than Defilers, I don't know, only time will answer that question. Ask me again in a month.One thing that raiding Mystics do need to embrace, strongly, is the role we've been dealt. We are a melee Priest now. It's not what we started out to be at release, but that's where we are now. We bring not only healing, but damage dealing, to a raid. We need to excel in this role, because it can be a valuable role. Much like Furies were / are desired for their ability to not only heal, but do damage, so are Mystics now.We have to realize that our role in the MT group is limited to those guilds and situations where a Defiler simply isn't available. It will take a rather drastic change on the Development side to make this different. Does it suck? Well, yea, it kinda does, but we can't change that, so why put energy into it?However, we have the tools to become something different, and we need to put all our effort into that, and see where it leads.I know I can keep my group alive. That's easy, the real question is, what can I do with my damage dealing? I've parsed over 1000 DPS, with no dog, while in the MT group (filling in for our Defiler). I'm sure I can do even more.If you tell a raid leader, hey, I can keep my group alive and deal 1000 DPS . . . well, that's a very valuable resource. Most raid leaders expect nothing in terms of damage from their healers, and by giving them something different, something more, you can make your Mystic desireable above being just "another healer".

TheSpin

11-13-2007, 02:37 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problems that Mystics have are really quite simple, and I'm surprised that no one has yet articulated the major premise.Mystics have no unique role in a raid environment.I'm in no way saying Mystics are alone in this regard, but this is a pretty irrefutable statement of fact.I do think that we need to get a little perspective here. When you consider something like a Templar, man, those guys really do have some pain points. Sure, every raid has a place for a Templar in the raid. One Templar. In the MT group. Same thing for Wardens. One Warden, and into the MT group he goes.After that, excess Wardens and Templars? Why bother? Bring something different instead unless there is a very specific need, probably some sort of AE cure. After that, it's simply a matter of having 6 or 7 healers in the raid, and if you can have one of each type, so much the better. More useful to bring a Mystic than a second Warden or Templar, if there is one available.Mystics are not alone in their lack of additional functionality, the major difference is that unlike the need for a Warden or Templar in the MT group, Mystics are not going to see that one guaranteed spot in a raid. We are simply "another healer" in the overall scheme of things.Currently, Mystics and Defilers are quite even in their per server demographics. There are ever so slightly more Mystics at L70 than Defilers. When we get to L80, we'll see what happens. Perhaps more Mystics have been abandoned at L70 than Defilers, I don't know, only time will answer that question. Ask me again in a month.One thing that raiding Mystics do need to embrace, strongly, is the role we've been dealt. We are a melee Priest now. It's not what we started out to be at release, but that's where we are now. We bring not only healing, but damage dealing, to a raid. We need to excel in this role, because it can be a valuable role. Much like Furies were / are desired for their ability to not only heal, but do damage, so are Mystics now.We have to realize that our role in the MT group is limited to those guilds and situations where a Defiler simply isn't available. It will take a rather drastic change on the Development side to make this different. Does it suck? Well, yea, it kinda does, but we can't change that, so why put energy into it?However, we have the tools to become something different, and we need to put all our effort into that, and see where it leads.I know I can keep my group alive. That's easy, the real question is, what can I do with my damage dealing? I've parsed over 1000 DPS, with no dog, while in the MT group (filling in for our Defiler). I'm sure I can do even more.If you tell a raid leader, hey, I can keep my group alive and deal 1000 DPS . . . well, that's a very valuable resource. Most raid leaders expect nothing in terms of damage from their healers, and by giving them something different, something more, you can make your Mystic desireable above being just "another healer".</blockquote>I definatley think that mixing in dps output is a good way to stay viable for raids. There is still a power conservation problem for mystics though. Both of the other melee priests have excellent power regen spells.

Supp

11-13-2007, 02:50 PM

<ul><li>Ok, the fabled mystic RoK is gear has no STR, but is loaded with INT? </li><li>I wonder why the Devs would do that... Because we self-buff 307 STR? </li><li>Is 307 or 350 (guessing at 80) supposed to be enough for a L80 STR Spec'd Mystic? </li><li>And what do we need the INT for?</li></ul>Now me personnally, I really believe that if youre spec'ing a type, you should be sitting 6 or 700 AT LEAST of that spec. 350 STR would seem half-arsed to me. Now I realize we could sacrifice certain slots to achieve perhaps 450 STR, perhaps 475 at 80. But that's far below what I believe it should be. Now granted, this is my opinion on what you should strive for. Let me ask this. As you can see from my signature, I am not yet a 70 mystic. I was not planning on seriously testing out her combat ability until 70, so I cant speak to how viable mystics are combat-wise, but I have always ASSuMEd that mystics have significantly better DPS (like 30% at least) than that of Defilers. I say that because of the self-buffed STR coupled with the AGI and CA lines. DPS matters quite a bit in my case because I want try solo-ing instances with her. I know Defilers could do the same job, but a lot slower because of their poor DPS. I realize Defilers are superior in many ways, but their inferior DPS has kept me a mystic. But perhaps I am proceeding on a false assumption. If I were to switch to Defiler and go with an INT spec, would my DPS (at 80) be that much poorer than an 80 Mystic? I must admit that Ive been a bit torn of late. I would like to not have power problems. I would like to have automated debuffing. I'm guessing the only thing that's beneficial in RoK for a mystic is that most of the masters are getting replaced, reducing the pain of switching subclasses. There is so much mystic hatred (by the players themselves) not only now but for a long time.Let me offer you all a guarantee (that you would not regret betrayal) in the form of a long-proved example. I played a raiding warden as my main for a year. In that time, wardens were nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. Broken things did not get fixed. Appropriate class gear was very hard to find because there were only 4 leather wearers in the game. Druid gear was INT STA WIS, while brawler gear was STR AGI STA. Even in the eary days, it seemed clear that only Furies would benefit from INT gear, so Wardens stood alone in their leather gear requirements because brawler gear was either brawler specific, or it would be seen as "uncool" to assign fabled STR gear to a healer that wanted to be able to DPS when they should be healing. The Warden boards were no help. It had degenerated into a haven of hatred that only whiners and fury-envious wardens would frequent. This happened because Devs did not post in the warden boards. I watched this for 8 months, and finally decided to betray. I was told that I would regret it. That was 18 months ago and nothing has changed. I can only assume this is the case because the Devs found a niche for the Warden that they think is appropriate and will not budge or explain why. So when I see the same path appearing for the mystic, I dont have hesitation about such decisions. And as you can see below, I'm quite the traitor <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />

Supp

11-13-2007, 02:52 PM

TheSpin

11-13-2007, 03:16 PM

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I definatley think that mixing in dps output is a good way to stay viable for raids. There is still a power conservation problem for mystics though. Both of the other melee priests have excellent power regen spells.</blockquote>Wardens are the melee spec'd druid, and they have poor power regen. You're probably thinking of Animal Form, a Fury specific AA that gives crazy power regen.</blockquote>Both druids get a power regen as their bloodlines spell I believe. Warden even have AA to enhance it.

Arcanemundi

11-13-2007, 03:30 PM

I've put in a lot of hours in raids, grouping, and research, and I believe the level 70 Mystic has a lot more to offer than the pro-deflier camp is willing to admit or acknowledge. Mystics have unique spells such as Oberon Barrier that are crucial when the whole raid is down to zero power, including the defliers, since it uses hardly any power compared to conventional wards and heals. My MT Warden companion thanks me when I cast it on a long fight, since it also saves her power from casting heals all the time. Don't be mislead by parses either, I parse 70-90% of raid heals in raids because wards heal/prevent damage before other heals do. So if you have a defiler parsing heavy when another mystic is in the raid it is because they had priority in heals landing.The two attack speed and two DPS speed debuffs are each 25 points, so a total of -50 Attack Speed, and -50 DPS. Im not positive about this, but I believe that these debuffs are huge and critical to any big fight you may get in. It also allows the Mystic to solo quite well.

CimTaurus

11-13-2007, 03:56 PM

Started my Mystic as my main character when I came back into the game last May. I didn't spend one second researching the class, I just read the descriptions, remembered that I really enjoyed my Shaman in eq1 and went with it. Two weeks ago I hit 70 on her. I have been to all of 1 big raid with her, but plenty of high end instances. Here is my take on things.Early on I discovered the CA line of AA's and thought, wow this looks fun, lets try it. From that day forward I always developed my character with the idea that I was a melee damage dealer/preventer. Long story short, never have I had a problem keeping enough power, keeping enough heals going or just plain keeping the group up and running. I think it has been mentioned already here that mystics make perfectly capable healers. The problem is that there is not a well defined role for them in raids.I guess i am summing up what others have said here, but I say itt from my experience as a player who did not have a predefined role or design for my mystic. We are DPS Healers. Make it known that we can deal out as good as we can heal up. While I have never had much of a power issue, I can see where it would become a problem in large scale combat or long raid fights with little or no time to regen. It was mentioned in the beta forums, and I still think it is a good idea, that our spell line that increases power cost to mobs should work more as a power tap spell. Cast it on a mob, whenever they use power it costs them X% more and Y% of that is returned to the mystic. This would not be overpowering but would certainly satisfy a lot of power hungry (pun intended) mystics out there. What would make even more mystics polish their spears and get the kinks out of their chain is good old Canibalize. Ahh those were the days. But I digress.... As far as our fabled set goes, well it is a joke and I just cant see the value in that armor for the effort that will be required to obtain it. Give me armor with Wis/Str/Agi in that order. What other chain wearer is going to want that type of armor anyway? It gives us armor that suits the role that SOE has created for us (or pushed us into depending on your outlook). Are mystics in need of some work? Yup. Do they suck and should we all betray to defilers? Of course not. We just need to keep in mind that as a community we play at least a small part in defining our role as mystics in groups and raids.

Banditman

11-13-2007, 05:43 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've put in a lot of hours in raids, grouping, and research, and I believe the level 70 Mystic has a lot more to offer than the pro-deflier camp is willing to admit or acknowledge. Mystics have unique spells such as Oberon Barrier that are crucial when the whole raid is down to zero power, including the defliers, since it uses hardly any power compared to conventional wards and heals. My MT Warden companion thanks me when I cast it on a long fight, since it also saves her power from casting heals all the time. If your raid is down to zero power, you need more DPS. Flat out. You aren't killing the target nearly fast enoughDon't be mislead by parses either, I parse 70-90% of raid heals in raids because wards heal/prevent damage before other heals do. So if you have a defiler parsing heavy when another mystic is in the raid it is because they had priority in heals landing.The reason Defilers typically parse much higher is because they are typically in the MT group. As such, they can use their group wards. By using their group Wards in addition to their ST Wards, a MT Defiler has a huge advantage. Oberon is group only, so a Mystic not in the MT will never get to use this. I don't even include it in my AA build.The two attack speed and two DPS speed debuffs are each 25 points, so a total of -50 Attack Speed, and -50 DPS. Im not positive about this, but I believe that these debuffs are huge and critical to any big fight you may get in. It also allows the Mystic to solo quite well.Let me lay the haste / DPS debuff thing out here. Minus Fighters, who also have some Haste / DPS debuffs (my spreadsheet isn't complete, so sue me):Mystic -53 Haste, -54 DPSDefiler -40 Haste, -35 DPSDirge -25 Haste, -37 DPSSwash -35 DPSBrig -25 HasteNow, as you can see, we aren't the only class who can debuff. What's more, this does NOT include things like poisons, hex dolls, items, procs . . . a whole horde of other ways that these two things get debuffed.Further, EoF combat changes really hit us hard. Those numbers used to be raw percentages, not -53, but -53% for instance. A Mystic alone could debuff a mob to the previous cap. Mobs were hard up against the debuff cap, all the time.Now, not so. With a +200 point scale upwards, and assuming a -200 scale downwards and the same 50% cap on debuffs, you're looking at a total debuff cap of around 83. A raid really needs everyone to be debuffing now, because more and more mobs have inate haste, so while old world and DoF and KoS mobs would start at 0, EoF and RoK mobs might start at +200. In that light, you can debuff a mob by 283 points. The Mystic however is still stuck with the same 53 points of debuff ability.</blockquote>

Banditman

11-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Now, to follow all that up, I do want to say that while a lot of my comments in this thread have been negative, I'm not down on the Mystic class. I do think we could use some help from the Development side, certainly.My main goal however is to get folks focused on those things that our class is truly built to do NOW as opposed to what our class description or history might otherwise indicate.We're a good melee Priest, capable of putting out some really silly amounts of damage for a Priest. Like any Priest in the game, we're more than capable of keeping a group alive.Oh! And the reason for the INT on our gear is that there are portions of our CA damage that is based upon INT as opposed to STR. We can buff our STR pretty good already, as noted. Having INT on our gear is just another subtle hint that we need to be doing our job differently than other Priests.

KatrinaDeath

11-13-2007, 07:23 PM

Thank you for the link... I play PvP and just became a Mystic a few weeks ago and the class rocks. I know raid wise I have read a lot about the class but I'll be able to obtain a raid spot with ease with no Defilers around.I will continue to [Removed for Content] however since our raid gear should reflect the majority of our AA choices and that we also need power regen.

inshiningarmor

11-14-2007, 02:18 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've put in a lot of hours in raids, grouping, and research, and I believe the level 70 Mystic has a lot more to offer than the pro-deflier camp is willing to admit or acknowledge. Mystics have unique spells such as Oberon Barrier that are crucial when the whole raid is down to zero power, including the defliers, since it uses hardly any power compared to conventional wards and heals. My MT Warden companion thanks me when I cast it on a long fight, since it also saves her power from casting heals all the time. If your raid is down to zero power, you need more DPS. Flat out. You aren't killing the target nearly fast enoughDon't be mislead by parses either, I parse 70-90% of raid heals in raids because wards heal/prevent damage before other heals do. So if you have a defiler parsing heavy when another mystic is in the raid it is because they had priority in heals landing.The reason Defilers typically parse much higher is because they are typically in the MT group. As such, they can use their group wards. By using their group Wards in addition to their ST Wards, a MT Defiler has a huge advantage. Oberon is group only, so a Mystic not in the MT will never get to use this. I don't even include it in my AA build.The two attack speed and two DPS speed debuffs are each 25 points, so a total of -50 Attack Speed, and -50 DPS. Im not positive about this, but I believe that these debuffs are huge and critical to any big fight you may get in. It also allows the Mystic to solo quite well.Let me lay the haste / DPS debuff thing out here. Minus Fighters, who also have some Haste / DPS debuffs (my spreadsheet isn't complete, so sue me):Mystic -53 Haste, -54 DPSDefiler -40 Haste, -35 DPSDirge -25 Haste, -37 DPSSwash -35 DPSBrig -25 HasteNow, as you can see, we aren't the only class who can debuff. What's more, this does NOT include things like poisons, hex dolls, items, procs . . . a whole horde of other ways that these two things get debuffed.Further, EoF combat changes really hit us hard. Those numbers used to be raw percentages, not -53, but -53% for instance. A Mystic alone could debuff a mob to the previous cap. Mobs were hard up against the debuff cap, all the time.Now, not so. With a +200 point scale upwards, and assuming a -200 scale downwards and the same 50% cap on debuffs, you're looking at a total debuff cap of around 83. A raid really needs everyone to be debuffing now, because more and more mobs have inate haste, so while old world and DoF and KoS mobs would start at 0, EoF and RoK mobs might start at +200. In that light, you can debuff a mob by 283 points. The Mystic however is still stuck with the same 53 points of debuff ability.</blockquote></blockquote> There is a cap that you can debuff to. I do not remember offhand but my guild spent several days in EH experimenting with the cap. We are big min/maxers and did not want to waste extra spells if possible. Dirge & Defiler buffs alone cause the mobs to do the same auto attack damage as Dirge/Defiler/Mystic/Rogue. Since our Swash and brig use those debuffs in their normal CA's we stopped haveing our Mystic debuff those skills. He became a melee class that we later replaced with another assassin. Our Defiler and Dirge do the main debuffs and get the mob near the cap by themselves. Add to that the normal debuffs that are used with CA's and you do not need more debuff classes.

rvbarton

11-15-2007, 09:15 AM

Here is a new one for you..."Totem of the Chokidai"increases movement to 45%So, Mystics, without AA's can cast sow at 24%, if I'm correct? We spend a 8 pts AA in EoF tree (3 for foretelling, 5 for SoW), and then we can cast a 40% SoW. I think it's rather unjust that our AA enhanced SoW is not better than a level 70 Totem.Let's just take away a bit more utility from Mystics...I'm very frustrated now.

Banditman

11-15-2007, 10:58 AM

Being frustrated because of a SoW totem is just plain silly.Yes, silly.There are certainly reasons to be frustrated, but SoW totem envy is not one of them. You might as well get frustrated because the Hex Dolls debuff all magic resistances or because imbued wands have a clicky nuke.Have you priced T8 tradeskill fuel? There's something to TRULY get frustrated with!

rvbarton

11-15-2007, 01:17 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Being frustrated because of a SoW totem is just plain silly.Yes, silly.There are certainly reasons to be frustrated, but SoW totem envy is not one of them. You might as well get frustrated because the Hex Dolls debuff all magic resistances or because imbued wands have a clicky nuke.Have you priced T8 tradeskill fuel? There's something to TRULY get frustrated with!</blockquote>Thank you for discounting my feelings & thoughts and saying they are silly. I usually appreciate your opinions on these boards, but for the first time I'm sorry to say I don't.It's not the fact of SoW totem envy that frustrates me, not totems, nor anything of that nature... it's the fact that Sony has once again discredited the utility that they state is a Mystic benefit, and have trivialized another aspect of our Mystic characters. I realize this is purely my opinion, and obviously I'm alone in my thoughts here, but what is next?

Banditman

11-15-2007, 02:21 PM

I call em like I see em.I have been playing this game since release (really, before that, but let's not quibble). I have been asked for a SoW exactly twice.Carpets with 40% are free for the questing since the DoF era. Tinkerer's have been able to make a hover platform for quite a while now thats 45%. Warden's can cast a 55% SoW with their AA's. What about the quested Sokokar now? Not exactly the same, but still very nice.And like I said . . . have you SEEN the price of T8 Tradeskill fuel? It's 1g per . . . making it a very expensive proposition. I went to start grinding my Sage up yesterday and about choked when I clicked "Buy Stack" on fuel and saw the TWO PLAT price for the stack of fuel.So, a T8 Woodworker trying to compete with you "selling" run speed enhancement is at a decided disadvantage. Your cost for casting SoW is quite significantly lower than his cost for fuel.

Rayche

11-15-2007, 04:24 PM

I can appreciate you calling them like you see them. (Altough tradeskill fuel prices is not a Mystic issue so really isn't relevant in this forum.)But for starters, I disagree with how you see them. Secondly, I find it in poor taste to attempt to belittle someone else's opinion just because you don't agree with what frustrates them.I was horribly upset (and still am) when they stripped 10% off my SoW upgrade. (Only for Mystics mind you, other classes still kept their faster SoW)The things that upset me for Mystics are this:1: Master 2 choices are of almost no benefit for healing mystics or melee mystics.2: Fabled set armor has ZERO STR on it.3: Fabled set bonuses are three of the worst thought out bonuses you could make. (Don't even rework that set, just delete and start over please.)4: No upgrades for debuffs. (Or even a consolidation debuff that allows me to not have to cast 6 debuffs)5: Give me my SoW back the way it was.6: Don't bother giving me 20 more AA's in the EoF tree. You could give me 100 in EoF and I still wouldn't have anything worth spending them on. Fix EoF tree. (Spell haste? Cannibalize?)I'm still not betraying... but it really needs some looking into.At least my Masters will be cheap when there aren't any more Mystics left <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Banditman

11-15-2007, 05:50 PM

Ah, I see. It isn't the SoW.Well, I can tell you the beta Mystics were quite aware of the shortcomings of our M2 choices and we all used /feedback as well as forum posts to make ourselves heard. We certainly felt it was strange to see at least one, and as many as three options for a heal M2 in every tier . . . except this one. Confusing and mindboggling also come to mind as appropriate descriptions.As I said in another thread somewhere here . . . not all your stats come directly from the gear, nor should they. Frankly, getting STR is very easy. Adornments add tons of STR to a great number of slots. Jewelry adds it. For the last 3 years, we've done NOTHING but complain about how all our gear has STR on it and "we don't need STR". Now, we don't have it.And honestly, let's face it, the chances that you'll actually 1. Have the complete Fabled set and 2. Want to wear only that are pretty slim. It's a lot more likely that you'll throw various pieces on and the others in the appearance slots.Now, don't tell anyone, but that (3) bonus is actually a pretty nice bonus. If a raid has two Mystics on a raid, you can keep your tank perma-Bolstered. I'll let you work it out, I can show you the math if you really want.And finally, we get to something worth talking about: Our EoF tree. It's sickening. Terrible. Atrocious. Please continue with your own adjectives here. This is what we should be focusing all our efforts on getting addressed. Half of our EoF tree is useful, enhancing and enticing choices. The other half is just worthless. Not even worth spending a point on. Resurrections? Cures? Please.So yea, let's talk about the things that truly matter. Make sure that when someone reads what Mystics are concerned with, they hear one clear and convincing message about what we feel our problems are. Giving the Devs a bunch of things to look at allows too much wiggle room to fix something irrelevant and claim they looked at our problems and made adjustments. It's going to take a clear message about one single thing to get any action, and so far, I just don't see that sort of focus here.

Rayche

11-15-2007, 08:36 PM

I was in Beta, and saw the poor planning for Mystics first hand. (And made posts against it)We agree to some degree.Bolster... it's not bad. I've been in 2 Mystic raids where with EoF AA's we could keep bolster up almost nonstop on the tank. It's nice, but I'm not sure it's the end all be all. (And it's fairly rare where I come from to have 2 Mystics on a raid.)I'm unsure what you mean about not getting the fabled set. Aside from having dismally crappy luck I watched all my friends get their EoF sets... (I even had the amazing luck of watching the occasional tag along random Defiler pick up a set piece... but never saw mine drop.)I personally could have as much chance at RoK fabled set armor as anybody else. (Or are you speaking for the average casual player here?)I forgot to mention that it wasn't just the set bonus that I found lacking, but a fair number of the standalone effects on the gear that need looked at. I would prefer a solution where we took an armor mold, turned it in and made a decision at that time whether we wanted the priest version or the melee specced priest version. (Similar to relic)I disagree that STR is less important. I never made a post claiming that it wasn't needed, so I don't feel compelled to change my stance on that. (Explain how 350ish INT benefits us? And how I can make that up with jewellery?)I also don't believe it's unreasonable to expect that the Mystic class M2 choices get reworked, or that the EoF AA's get reworked, that my SoW be restored and that they itemize some armor for melee specced priests in general.I'm a paying customer just as anybody else, and this is what my concerns are.I think you're right that there is a significant lack of vocalization from the Mystic community other than posts screaming that the sky is falling. We SHOULD speak with a clear and common voice, but I don't think we should limit our requests to the table scraps we think we can squeak by with.

LadyKahlan

11-16-2007, 09:26 AM

I have played my mystic since day one. I also was in beta and start talking about mystic on beta boards, only to realize that no one was listening, so waited till someone like Banditman and Lepios came along to fight the fight. They have clear voices that the devs might listen to. Lets try to keep our voices to the point of the devs might listen. I think we all agree on what is broke and some have been fighting this fight for a few expansions now, I see some fixes and my mystic is much fun to play. I will not ever give up on my mystic, but for now I've quit a high end raiding guild and decided to solo/group for this expansion.

rvbarton

11-16-2007, 11:07 AM

FURTHER FRUSTRATION...PVP in RoK. Mystics seem to be even more at a disadvantage.I was solo'ing in Kylong Plains yesterday and I went 1 vs 1, with an even con Brigand, at least I think it was a Brigand, but I was ganked so many times, I forget. The point is, during a 1 vs 1 fight, with enough time for me to cast my group ward, he blurred my vision for at least 35 seconds. I also cast my ST ward in there, and I used my emergency group ward after this. So, estimating that is a total of over 6k in wards, add in my 6k in hitpoints, and we are up to 12k. His DPS was so great, I died in about 40 seconds. I am Strength & Agility spec'd in KoS, and I am maxxed in CA's in EoF, including mas Ursine Augur & Max Foretelling. No way I could have healed any more because of the interrupts, and I feel lucky I got off that ST ward at least one. I"m thinking I might have gotten it off twice, but dont' really remember. I checked my logs, and he did not use a pumice stone, nor were my wards dispelled by any ability. Where is my utility for survival? Where is my defense?My dog was useless in this fight.. I'll be respeccing this weekend and losing the dog and going Intelligence for the Scourge ability. I'm even more frustrated now. No, I'm not going to betray to defiler. I like the people in my guild too much, so I"m hoping a dev or moderator will see our posts and bring our shortcomings to attention.

gatrm

11-16-2007, 11:30 AM

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I definatley think that mixing in dps output is a good way to stay viable for raids. There is still a power conservation problem for mystics though. Both of the other melee priests have excellent power regen spells.</blockquote>Wardens don't use quite as much power rather than having excellent power regen. There is one small power regen wardens get, but isnt something that seems to make significant difference over the course of a fight- nothing compared to what an inquisitor gets. Though it seems as though inq is the only healer that soe actually intended to spec melee- they actually get str on their set gear.

Farslaye

11-16-2007, 02:09 PM

First time post, long time readerI'm driven to post by this expansion and have large concerns about the changes in game and end game fable set peices.Seems the Dev have forgot to include set peices that would be useful to the largest section of Mystic's, The dps spec'ed one. This coupled with the changes to swapping gear during combat, have me thinking hard about the usefulness of the AA choices and the usefulness of a raid mystic. With the choices contain in the current AA lines, 40 more points only leave me wondering what to do with them. Res line is worthless, cure line is worthless, from a raid point of view. The wards attached to the cure line need to be REALLY upgraded to make that line even acceptable. These two lines are useless to me, and i think they are a waste of AA points. Res line needs to be dropped and a power re-gen line must be added to balence the healer classes. The only way im able to maintain a acceptable power pool was thru the use of clickable items. Now thats to be remove. I will be watching close for changes to the set pieces. I will level up to 80 and see if the health and power pool via gear makes the differenceand i can still dps well enough in raid using spells vice melee. My ONLY options for solo dps then becomes using add hock gear with stats that are useful because the end set does not provide what im looking for.Cut and dry, if these issues are NOT address then i will move to the dark side, the land where INT might make a difference and power pools re-gen and i would again be picked for raidin as a useful healer NOT as the out of power non- dps shammy that SOE seems to want. Why provide a DPS line and then make it as useless as the other two AA lines provided.Medicelf, Melee Mystic on the Bazarr

BlueDagger

11-16-2007, 02:36 PM

Issues:1) Bulk of Mystic damage is CAs and they obviously want us to attack melee or they wouldn't give us 2 class abilities with +str.2) + Int will help with DPS on CAs... but not to a degree where there should be 0 str on the fabled set.3) Ress line in Mystic tree... who in the hell wants this? If I'm speccing for ressurection bonuses that means that I'm hoping that my team mates die for my choices to be useful.

inshiningarmor

11-17-2007, 10:45 AM

Seriously folks GIVE UP. They are not going to make chain that benefits melee specced Mystics. Not going to happen. It will all be for scouts. They are most likely not going to revamp our AA's for quite awhile if ever. IF they do, the class defining ability of power regen for defilers will not be part of it. Finding equipment for Defilers to DPS at range or heal is easy actually. Finding equipment for Mystics to heal is easy. Finding Melee chain that benefits Mystics??? Give it up and use the scout stuff. The path you choose was melee... forget healing too as you sacrafice Wisdom. there goes your power by doing so. Just like the AoE specialists Warlocks.... Melee Mystics have no place.

Baccalarium

11-17-2007, 04:59 PM

Afraid I'm going to ramble despite having refrained from response for a bit.I'm a healer first, any damage I do is a bonus that helps my ability to solo, get quests up to the same point where others need to group up to complete them.If theres healing to be done I'm not going to run into the battle risk getting myself stunned or AE'd and thus unable to keep my friends protected. If the healing is taken care of, then sure, I'll help smack down the mob. Ranged attacks would keep me safer, but I can do more damage by running up to the mob. No str on the set peices doesn't bother me that much, as I said damage is a secondary aspect of my play as a healer. Since most battles that are hard fights I'm likely to be at range anyway, then the boost to my ranged damage with int may be more helpful than strength anyway.The question to me still comes down to the EOF AA lines making advancement as a healer difficult, and pushing us to be a hybrid. As others have said making the comparative value of a mystic vs other healers essentially come down to bolster. I played a disciple in Vanguard that was a melee healer, and the unique thing there was that I'm not fighting to kill the mob, I'm fighting because my fighting generates heals and power for the group. This made this class fun, stand and heal and run out of power, or fight and heal and heal for forever. I've played with the herbology line for a while, but have been STR/WIS specced for a while to support my typical position in MT group in raids.============================================ ===============So with all this said, Make my have a choice in the left and right side of the eof aa. Make them useful.If I'm going to be a melee healer make the melee help me heal.Give me more AA's or items that one successful attack or CA, generate heals and/or power, let the defiler get power for the tank being hit, let me be get power or heals for hitting the mob. Call it beast master animal instinct, or mystic spiritual protection I don't care which. Preferably don't make these all group heal procs, make them help me protect the tank. You could help protect the tank if these were successful attack causes the mob to proc wards or heals or some such on its target. Of course I still want them to parse back to me somehow too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think someone else suggested making the cure lines in eof tree turn into group cures after some number of points in them. Perhaps give them a dot component that will effectively recast the same cure every few seconds for 30 seconds or till it cures something so we can effectively ward cures. Add a %chance for each other player in the group that they will receive the cure in addition to who you cast it one. Make the damage specific wards on the cures big enough to be significant, as they will never show as a signigicant portion of my healing now even if the mob I was protecting against only used a single attack type.

inshiningarmor

11-18-2007, 11:39 AM

I absolutely loved my Mystic so do not get me wrong... and if they ever fix the class I will be back but.... Mystic EoF lines SUCK! they are trash for healers. I would give up the extra 40 AA's to have AA'a as useful as a defiler has. Chain gear that works for melee Mystics is non existant. Wis Int geat with spell or heal procs? EZ TO GET. Debuffs and wards eat ALOT of power. We do not generate power, and we are not essential enough to be put in a group with power regen. We can heal or DPS or Debuff. No consolodation. Our evil brothers debuff and get power .... debuff and do DPS ectSorry but compared to our offensive ( SOE description ) ( we are not better defensively or offensively... we do not have better buffs in either dept ) counterpart we are severely gimped. If I want to be a DPS healer I will go Fury and put up some DPS and buffs for the party. Our buffs help Tanks and that is about it. Mystics were made to be the defensive shamen much as a Templar is the defensive priest. YES I played a Mystic since day 1. After they fixed the shamen wards we were overpowered. With the spells and AA's since the first expansion they have effectively neutered Mystics a little at a time. I asked fellow Mystics to try rolling a Defiler in Beta so they could see from the other side of the fence. To see a Defiler with all the AA's can compare to their own class they play every day. Here is what a few posted:<cite>tikasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fynne@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well..in answer to the person that said roll a defiler on the beta and you will see the difference for yourself...I got Dev Buffed for my defiler I started, so I am in all fabled gear at level 80..and I never ran out of power at all, and thoroughly enjoyed playing this toon. I started the toon the night before and had the legendary Beta Buff gear then..and it was still amazing. I could fight forever! I never ran out of power and my heals were massive. I guess all thats left is for me to betray..but I am going to wait and see if we get any love. Otherwise I will be a defiler from now on.SOE Please help us Mystics find our way. </blockquote> I do not mean to pick on Mystics as it will always be my favorite class to play, but unless more also try this they will think that a small change will be enough. I was astonished at the difference in the 2 classes. When enough try this while there is an opportunity to do so, maybe enough will make themselves be heard so more do not have to betray the person who said to try was right =(</blockquote> You only have 3 days more to try this out. Even if you think Mystics are close to where they should be PLEASE just try. Only then will you see what the differences are. Only with enough of us together will a possibility of changes occuring.Well i made a Defiler and buffed him with set gear and ya it is a huge differance in toons..Wasnt even that hard to get used to the new spell changes only thing that was a big differance is i never ran outta power and i was healing for way more hen my poor mytic ever could and ive got 283 days and 23 hours log on the mystic ..thats played time.. she was created 2 weeks after game luanched..I hate to say it but if we dont at least get some kind of power regin we will be replaced with defilers... a healer cant heal if there out of power.I healed more over all way better then i ever have on my mystic in the short 2 days i played the defiler... huge differance. Try it out if you dont believe me.Message edited by HellHound420 on 11/09/2007 15:16:16. yea i made a ratonga defiler ......taked the INT line + Wis line , AAs nearly all them <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" />gezzzzzzzzzzzz is like playing a super mystic i was counting the dmg spells....all of them with a debuff attached.... and my mystic need to cast them taking me like 8s to cast all debuffs , while defiler cast them like crazy power : 0 issues debuffs + dmg spells : Incredible...and defilers are casters...so no need to go and melee while in group , u debuff and dmg at the same time............!!!! as mystic in group if u debuff...u just debuff ....if u want to do dmg , u need to go and melee......now is when the tank look at u....ehm? healer what are u doing? .....defilers can stand back , send dogdog , debuff + dmg , ward , heal , cure.....w/o blinking.......is incredible the skill that defilers have D: , i gonna wait until rok goes live.....if nothing change , i am betraying (now all spells are gonna be upgraded so who cares?), the dark side.....call me hahahai dont know why defilers are rare as hell!!! Message edited by SkuaII on 11/09/2007 23:51:53.Defilers..wow..just wow. I got Dev Buffed when they had the giggle guys at the starting zone..and it is unbelievable how I never ran out of power..ever. My heals were enormous..yeah, betrayal is going to be in my future for sure...mommy hold me I am scared! Posted a few comments that most cannot see since the NDA was lifted. DO NOT SETTLE

ottugi

11-18-2007, 12:37 PM

Everyone likes different rolls on their toons, I guess.For me, I started playing a mystic as my first toon when eq2 first came outwithout knowing that I can get owned by a group of greys that interrupt alot.I enjoyed being responsible for group's survivable as a healer, butI felt totally unprepared when I was group-less and to be honestvery frustrated when I needed to get things done on my own quickly.So I got burned out always looking for groups and stopped playing my mystic altogether and started rolling other classes.EOF dps spec has brought me back fully on my mystic again and I simplylove it. I go out of my ways to boost my dps as much as possiblesince that's the way soe is pushing us (no str gear as other say aside).Master buffs, adornments, potions, food, racial traits whatever I can get my str even higher the better.I also count my melee & ca timing, etc.Am I overcompensating one aspect of this toon?Hardly. I do keep separate raid and group/solo sets and I learned to useeverything to push little more of heals and dps and always trying to outdo me.As a result, I get complements both as a competent healer and as a dps by surprised group members.Do I feel like I'm a fury when I sometimes top conj, ranger, or any other casual players withtheir dps toons?No, meleeing is so much more in-your-face and fast that I really feel like I'm more active.I don't raid as much so I may be happier with this class than some other people hereas I almost never run out of power. When I do, I just FD, root, mezz then finish offthe encounters if I can or run. It's no biggie really.Even if we have power issue as some said here, I would not trade self-reliance and awesomegroup/solo experience only to better raiding experience. Mystic is a perfect balance of heal and dps for me andplaying defiler would be to go back to the starting point of frustration.

KatrinaDeath

11-18-2007, 04:08 PM

So I've been in RoK now for the last few days. Soloed my way to 73 and I have a few issues, concerns, thoughts...3 Main Complaints First, when the NDA was lifted and power regen became an issue I became a bit worried. Then I started to see the treasured gear that was droping. Upwards of +10 power regen on several pieces I found. At first this seemed awesome, I could get something back that I lost when I betrayed to a Mystic. Then I realized EVERYONE will have this and it still puts me behind. Later in some instance I was in a horrid pug and noticed a nasty double power cost effect. Explains the gear somewhat so this almost puts us right bact to where we stand now. >>Mystics need some serious power regen ability added.Second, there is almost no way to gear yourself to play how most Mystics play. As a solo/group player I would like my main stats as STR, WIS, and AGI. Yes, the AGI seems odd but on Nagafen I have found it very useful. I also tank from time to time with the ability to parse 800-1000+ dps... Surprize the hell out of some players who really start to wonder what a Mystic really does. With my current gear spec my STR comes out to over 600, AGI and STA around 300-400, and INT and WIS around 200. Yeah, my WIS is low but there should be some gear out there for unique play styles.>>Mystic gear set needs to be changedLastly, I play PvP and most of my deaths come to being destroyed by the scout who can stun/stifle me long enough to render me useless. Yes I know that is their goal but I need some way to survive. The cast times on Mystic (and this goes for Defilers as well) heals/wards should be reduced somewhat to allow some small chance of surviving. If I get the jump on a scout it useually comes out to being a pretty close fight but it's hard to get the jump on the class with the radar.>>Reduce cast times or offer an AA line to do such.Other thoughts...Coming from playing a Defiler from 1-59 I think Mystics have some amazing abilities. The melee spec is more powerful than I thought it would be and there are a lot more spells that have specific uses. The noxious ward renders some evil classes useless in PvP... All in all tho we need some fixing. Swisha 73rd Mystic of Nagafen