New mobo and CPU, are these any good? [Archive]

Neofa

11-10-2007, 08:24 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Iv been thinking of upgrading from my Athlon 4200 to a new Athlon 6000 (3ghz x 2), and also to an ASUS M2N-E SLI Mobo.</p><p>Any thoughts on whether these are good pieces of equip? And will I need a patch for the dual core bug associated with AMD cpu's?</p></blockquote><div>First off to answer your immediate question: Yes, they are great pieces of equipment. Both made for each other, and great quality.</div><div>Second question:</div><div>Will you need to patch for Dual Core Bug. With Everquest 2,.. It is unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt, and is very easy. To explain the bug:</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div><b>AMD Dual-Core Optimizer</b> - <span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;">The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer can help improve some PC gaming video performance by compensating for those applications that bypass the Windows API for timing by directly using the RDTSC (Read Time Stamp Counter) instruction. Applications that rely on RDTSC do not benefit from the logic in the operating system to properly account for the affect of power management mechanisms on the rate at which a processor core's Time Stamp Counter (TSC) is incremented. The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer helps to correct the resulting video performance effects or other incorrect timing effects that these applications may experience on dual-core processor systems, by periodically adjusting the core time-stamp-counters, so that they are synchronized.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Georgia;">.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Georgia;">.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Georgia;">.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Georgia;">To make this even easier,.. Here is the link to this optimizer, which is a small file download, executable, that needs to be run 'ONE' time and you're done. It is no big deal, and generally recommended as it won't do harm, and could possibly do some good with 'other' games. -- Everquest2 is *not* designed to make use of Dual Core processors, unfortunately.</span></div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Link to the Optimizer: <a href="http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/Setup.exe" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/con...ities/Setup.exe</a></div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Thoughts on the equipment/upgrades: (Pertaining to Everquest2)</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>First off, the bottleneck in your setup is not going to be your 2.2Ghz 64Bit processor. While on the lower side do to age, it really isn't the most bang for the buck. You *will*, however, get some performance increase in going with a 3Ghz processor. The current processor you are utilizing has 512KB of L2 Cache, IIRC. The proposed 6000, has 1MB of L2 for each Core, totaling 2MB.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>As you can extrapolate , I'm sure, the game will only be utilizing 'ONE' of these cores, due to design. So for all practicle purposes you would be upgrading from 2200Mhz , 512KB Cache, to 3000Mhz, 1024KB Cache. A signficant upgrade, and worthy, especially due to the chip only running 120-150$. What you *will* notice is that other processes, TSR's, viruses, malware, AOL, whathaveyou.. That is purposely or not purposely running on your Operating System concurently with Everquest II will be utilizing the balance between the two Cores, and both sets of Cache. Thus, theoretically, the Game could have most of an Entire 3000Mhz core to itself, while the other core is running background processes, and other memory resident executables/commands, et al. Make sense? Sort of like giving your system more bandwidth to work with. That is the whole 'dual core' craze these days. Multi-tasking on a hardware level isntead of simply software/os.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>The Motherboard. It is about 100$ IIRC, (been a little while since I've checked up on the latest 'deals'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />,.. But as long as you aren't planning on running a Raid Array (HD Setup), then it should perform flawlessly. SATA is most common, and the board supports 1000Mhz Pipes, and 8GB Random Access.. It is solid.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Moreover -- The true determination of how Everquest II will execute/run/perform on any given machine is a factor that is multi-fold. I will rank it , imo:</div><div>.</div><div>1) Build the Basics: This would include a Processor that is capable of 2.2-2.5Ghz. A reasonably quick Harddrive, even UATA is fine. A SOLID powersupply,.. at least 400W (to deal with the stressors of today Graphics cards, and intensity of onboard systems). You can't get away with the old low amp, 250-300Watt powersupply's without running into problems that may not surface immediately, or obviously. So do yourself a favor and spend the 35-50$ and grab a reputable brand powersupply. Antec, etc. (Sorry for that rant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). A Motherboard that is capable of upgrade, and supports 500+Mhz Bus Speeds, among newer RAM technology.</div><div>.</div><div>2) Video -- Graphics Card. -- This cannot be overlooked in any way, shape, or form. This game in particular rely's HEAVILY on the graphics card for processing of most all things graphical. (The game performance is effecting 90% by this such rendering, so this is very 'key'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am much more familiar with Nvida products, so I will give that as reference. If you are running some Onboard Nvidia 6150SE, You are going to be dissapointed, even if the rest of your system is a CRAY supercomputer. (It all comes down to the weakest link). -- More to the solution. For current purchases, I wouldn't recommend anything *less* than an Nvidia Geforce 8500 series. Move upwards as you can afford. ((Though I am a big non-advocate of buying the 'latest' Gfx card for 500$+ , as in months it will be half the price). Buy something 200$ or less, unless you are simply made of money, imo. -- In Everquest II , in particular, the texture cache is important, due to design, and length of playtime. So opting for a Geforce 8 Series with 512MB of Memory or (greater) is highly advisable. -- Case in example I've seen 8500GT's for 139$ with 512MB, and 6-700Mhz Clock speeds. The 8800's have come down considerably as well. --- Lastly, While running dual Video cards in SLI mode is 'neat', and 'uber'. I wouldn't recommend it at this time. A) It isn't worth the money, and B) The game will not take advantage of what is truly there. Yes, it will help more than a single unit, but not nearly to the degree it is designed to do. I would buy a single card that you , perhaps, wish to add another identical card to in the future (once bugs/code have been modified/worked out), as opposed to downgrading the level of card to get '2'.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>3) RAM! Important, obviously. This is how much virtually 'instantaneous' space/memory available for the game to utilize. The more of it, the less Harddrive use that needs to occur. (A HUGE performance increase). Hard Drives run access times in the 'millisecond' range. RAM in the Nanosecond range. That is like Mach1 vs Lightspeed. Here I would recommend, for a current purchase, 2GB's. (Should be plenty) -- 32Bit OS's are designed technically to utilize 4Gig's of addressable memory, but it roughly turns out that but 2-3GB's of this area can be utilized by memory. Without getting technical, 2GB's is currently a great bet. (Proper speed RAM is a bonus as well, though there isn't much out there these days that is 'slow'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>The list goes on and on,.. but the major 3 components are listed above. To use this 'guide' wisely,.. You would need to judge your current setup and find the 'weakest' link. </div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Case in example -- You run a 2.2Ghz processor, with 1.5GB RAM, and a Geforce Ti4600Pro. (Hypothetically). -- The biggest bottleneck here is the Graphics Card. Believe it or not the Ti4200-4600 Series is a fantastic , robust, Geforce series. It will and has run Everquest II very well. (Balanced for the most part). However, with prices and technology today you can achieve exponentially higher performance for relative low cost. The CPU speed is 'OK', and the RAM, while not optimal 2GB, is 'OK" as well. First you would grab an 8 Series Geforce and see how much of a difference occurs. (Most likely very substantial). If it still isn't what you were hoping for, going for another 512MB of RAM might be the ticket, if, and only if your just looking for a slight tweak in the new found performance. If you are expecting a change from Balanced setting to High Quality at 40FPS.. A new system will need to be built.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Two last examples: A) You Run an AMD 64 Live, 5200 (2.6Ghz x 2), 1GB RAM, and a Geforce 7600Pro. The weaklink is your RAM. Pop another Gig, and things should be helped tremendously. B) You Run an AMD 1700+, (1.67Ghz), 1.5GB RAM, and a Geforce 8Series. The Processor is really tied up here.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>These examples are all relative, mind you,.. Many people, including myself, have run the game VERY well on somewhat subpar systems. I remember my old system was an AMD Tbred running OC'ed at 2Ghz. With 1GB RAM, and a Geforce TI4200. (I had the pagefile on a separate harddrive running at 10k, (different than the OS and Everquest directory). While High Quality was out of the question,.. The game ran 'smooth', and wasn't running on 'Extreme Performance' . Now with my recent build, things are night and day difference, but I am still quite impressed at what that technology did with the game compared to what is utilized now, in my new system. (It goes to show how much the 'older game, of EQ2', doesn't take advantage of ALL of the newer technology to the fullest. Which is to be expected, of course.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>One last example, Real Life example -- A friend bought a computer from Bestbuy, one of the Top of the line systems,.. An HP Pavillion, With an AMD 64Bit X2 Dual Core Processor.. Totally about 5.5-6Ghz, 2GB's RAM, 750Gig HD, CDburner/DVD burner, 22 inch Widescreen LCD (600$ Monitor), and on and on and on. Just a beautiful machine, couldn't get much better out of a store. --- Well he loads up EQ2, and eventually gets in the game. He couldn't believe his eyes, the game chopped up in Balanced, and even Performance mode. It was 'unplayable' in anything but Extreme, and even there it was getting odd stuttering. He was baffeled. He called me. I came and looked. All of that horsepower came with the 'onboard' Geforce 6150SE Video Card. Ughh. Not an entirely bad card, just not for gaming, not in the slightest. (You would think a card 2 series higher would outperform the 4 and 5 Series, but no, not really.) -- Anyhow. This card utilized what is referred to as 'shared video/system memory'. Or, in other words, it used some of the ever so VALUABLE RAM as a portion of its Video Cache. Being a built in variation, it was of poor clock speed, and DAC speed as well. A new card HAD to be found. We went and immediately grabbed an 8800,.. In a matter of minutes the computer went from a shock, to bliss. The Screen flowing at 30-40FPS in High Quality (Minus Shadows), on a 22Inch LCD at 1650x1080. (He was used to 17Inch at 1024x768, CRT). Which leads me to my last point.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>This post has gone way beyond answering your question, and more towards a 'guide' of sorts , perhaps helping others as well .. In this regard,.. never overlook the value of the thing you are looking at (using) the MOST. Your screen, your monitor, your CRT or LCD! An upgrade here automatically grants you additional space for buttons, buffs, mobs, landscape, chatbars, and 'quality' of color resonance, etc etc. Personally, I'm more of a guy who will live with a 19inch CRT and a higher spec 'Box', than a 22+ Inch Flatscreen, wih a bit less in the Box. But it is quite amazing at some of what I've seen. (IE: Pentium 3-4Ghz systems, 2+GB RAM, Raptor HD's, the works, custom cases, watercooled, (noiseless),.. With a 15Inch CRT , off white monitor. *Double Take* --</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Anyhow,.. I do apolgize for getting so lengthy in this reply,.. I got carried away. Though I do think your answers were addressed quite immediately, thus if you didn't have the heart (and I don't blame you), to read this in entirity, you should still have one man's opinion.</div><div>.</div><div>.</div><div>Take care, and do let us know what you decide and the ultimate results. (Tip, newegg.com is an excellent source for prices/gear)-- But you probably know that already. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>