the shissar?

[Terrius]

<p>Well I keep hearing people talk about the shissar, how they did something to anger the gods and were then sent the greenmist to kill them.. the ones that were left sealed themselves in a pyramid on Luclin... In another thread someone posted some info about the greenmist and the shissar, and one part that caught my eye was."The Shissar were an arrogant race. The power bestowed by their god was not enough for them. They made pacts with other gods and demigods. <b>They created rifts in time and space</b> and used them to gather magic items held by the guardians of the planes."So i guess my question is, if they had the ability to do that, create rifts in space and time, and If they had been studying the rune of Vul (think i read that somewhere...) then are we sure they are really wiped out? What if when Luclin exploded the remaining shissar had been long gone to another dimension or even the void? Is that even a possibility?</p>

[Rainmare]

It is possible that the Shissar escaped the destruction of Luclin, but unlikely. the 'rifts of time and space' were simply portal spells to the Planes. similar to how a wizard could transport people the the planes of sky and hate. now it's possible they could have used this power in that manner, but how would they know?the Shissar were in the Grey, underneath a barrier they errected that sucked all the air out of it in a huge vaccum. thier preemptive defensive measure against a return of the Greenmist. they had no contact with the rest of Luclin, except us adventurers that went in there. the attack on Luclin took place in the Nexus, and odds are that is where the Dresolisk was used.The shissar would have had no more warning then a pedestrian walking in Hiroshima would have known about the atomic bomb about to fall on his head.

[Zhern]

<p>This is Everquest and anything is possible. More than likely they working to take over Starbucks and Micrsoft. </p><p>Seriously , I was hoping the new Kunark race was going to be the  Shissar , since they are so different than anyone else. Can they come back? Oh yes.</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

The Shissar were one of the first races that opened portals to the planes and explored them. They eventually started poking into areas they didn't belong and angered the gods, who released the Greenmist over Kunark. Some groups of Shissar got stuck in the planes, and were transported/imprisoned in the Plane of Time (there are some of them in PoTimeA though they aren't really talkative). Some of them used their knowledge of teleportation and such and ported their Temple from the area we know of the Overthere to Luclin, where Luclin for her own mysterious reasons shrouded and protected them from the rest of the Gods. (The canyons in Overthere leading to Howling Stones is where Ssra was originally). In Post-PoP EQLive, we discover that some tribes of Shissar managed to avoid the Greenmist and remain in hiding for centuries, barely surviving. The Combine discovered some of those groups and took them to Katta Castrum in what would become the Buried Sea. There the Shissar shared their knowledge of Teleportation with the Combine which eventually let most of the Combine use the spires in Dreadlands to port up to Luclin as well. As far as we know, all other Shissar were killed with the Greenmist and the wars and such that followed. Now, as far as we know in EQII, the Luclin Shissar are assumed to be dead, but for all we know they detected Luclin about to go boom and triggered another Ssra port; they may be hiding out in an island somewhere on Norrath. The ones in Plane of Time are effectively in Stasis. Time does not pass in the Plane of Time, so there isn't much they can do unless Plane of Time collapses or otherwise releases them. And the ones in Katta Castrum are an unknown. They may or may not exist since we don't know if that particular wrinkle in the EQ Multiversal timelines occured in EQII's past like it did in EQ's. Still, given the hints and such we've heard, I would not be surprised at all if those snakes survived. My money would be betting on the ones from Luclin escaping before the Big Boom.

[Mirander_1]

To be frank, I'd be pretty surprised at this point to learn that the Shissar are really dead.  Even before all that stuff about the Stone of the Shissar came up, I'd always figured that if anyone had survived Luclin, it would be them.  At this point I'm not only convinced that the Shissar probably survived, but they may have actually been the ones to destroy Luclin.  Not only did they have the Rune of Vul (which would have allowed them to travel to the Void), but they also had the Rune of Sunder (and the SoD story seems to suggest that the Rune was connected to Luclin's destruction0.

[Terrius]

Grrr curse you all! now I'm more interested than I was when i posted this topic lol

[Vyrance]

I'm sure we'll run into the Shissar again.  One of the coolest races in the EQ universe.  I mean, if the Gods couldn't exterminate the Shissar, I highly doubt Luclin's destruction could... especially if Emperor Ssraeshza still lives.

[Vyrance]

<cite>Rainy wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is possible that the Shissar escaped the destruction of Luclin, but unlikely. the 'rifts of time and space' were simply portal spells to the Planes. similar to how a wizard could transport people the the planes of sky and hate. now it's possible they could have used this power in that manner, but how would they know?the Shissar were in the Grey, underneath a barrier they errected that sucked all the air out of it in a huge vaccum. thier preemptive defensive measure against a return of the Greenmist. they had no contact with the rest of Luclin, except us adventurers that went in there. the attack on Luclin took place in the Nexus, and odds are that is where the Dresolisk was used.The shissar would have had no more warning then a pedestrian walking in Hiroshima would have known about the atomic bomb about to fall on his head.</blockquote>i believe the war on Luclin went on for a very long time.  the beginning attack on Luclin did take place in the Nexus, and im sure thats probably where the destruction of the moon happened.  However, i remember Vhalen (think it was him) replying to a post about the Vah Shir saying that "they fought bravely until the end."  If the Vah Shir were fighting in the war, then I'd wager that the war was spread across all of Luclin, given Shar Vhal's distance from the Nexus.  also, the Shissar possessed a vast amount of knowledge.  if they learned of the war, i think they would also learn of the Gods turning their backs on Norrath.  if they learned that, they may have stopped being on the defensive since the Gods could no longer pose a threat.

[Cusashorn]

Why do people keep hoping that a snake race, as in a race of snake men who have no legs to speak of whatsoever, would be included as a race into this game? If it isn't Bi-Pedal, it's not going to work with the armor system. >_<

[Rainmare]

Shar Vahl was actually rather close to the Nexus. or at least, considerably closer than say, the Temple. the Vah Shir had established trade with Shadowhaven, though not with Katta Castellum or Sanctus Seru. which implied to me that Shar Vahl was the closest city to the Nexus.Of all the Luclin races, I would think the Vah Shir have the best chance to still be around. the Kerran are Vah shir/kerra interbreeding. however it's not beyond the scope to think that there may be a more secular 'pride' of full blooded Vah Shir somewhere.they've mentioned as a strictly lore tidbit that there is someone that still knows the secrets of the Beastlords. my money says it's a full blooded Vah Shir. So I'm hoping that the Vah Shir still at least exist, and have not been fully dilluted into these 'Kerrans' we have now.If the Shissar survived, I'll be looking forward to turning them into belts and boots again.

[Saroc_Luclin]

The Grey isn't all that far from the Nexus either. Nexus to Netherbrin Lair to Marus Seru to Mon Letalis to the Grey. Meanwhile Shar Vahl is Nexus to Shadowhaven to Paludal to Shadweavers to Shar Vahl. So they were about the same. Not to mention the Shissar had the giant spires right next door in Mon Letalis. If they were desperate enough tehy could probably have gone out and taken it over and used it. Oh I almost forgot, the temple also connected to the Deep which goes to Echo Caverns which goes to Shadow Haven.

[Ama]

<cite>Terrius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I keep hearing people talk about the shissar, how they did something to anger the gods and were then sent the greenmist to kill them.. the ones that were left sealed themselves in a pyramid on Luclin... In another thread someone posted some info about the greenmist and the shissar, and one part that caught my eye was."The Shissar were an arrogant race. The power bestowed by their god was not enough for them. They made pacts with other gods and demigods. <b>They created rifts in time and space</b> and used them to gather magic items held by the guardians of the planes."So i guess my question is, if they had the ability to do that, create rifts in space and time, and If they had been studying the rune of Vul (think i read that somewhere...) then are we sure they are really wiped out? What if when Luclin exploded the remaining shissar had been long gone to another dimension or even the void? Is that even a possibility?</p></blockquote>Seeing that I still think the Shissar are indeed the Shadowmen we see now punished for what they did to their creator. 

[Cusashorn]

<p>Just remember that actual distance traveled between zones is never represented. We don't know how many hundreds of miles you travel just to get from Shadowhaven to Shar Vahl.</p>

[Kyle]

The Shissar were always my favourite race. That being said, I don't know if I would ever want to see them as a playable race but it <i>would</i> be cool to see a few start reappearing in the timeline of EQ2.

[DMIstar]

The original Shissar City is in RoK.. though dont see any remaments in there so far ;/

[teddyboy4]

The fact that the Shissar are legless really just precludes them from ever being PC's, at least w/ the current skeletal system. But I could see some type of workaround being done for NPC Shissar mobs, they'd just have to have painted on armor on their....legs.....tails...whatever, but they could have regular armor on the rest of their bodies.As for the Shissar possibly surviving Luclin's destruction? I'd say it is certainly within the realm of possibility and I would not be surprised at all. The Shissar were a very powerful, and intelligent race that was able to survive the wrath of the gods once in the past. With the amount of time between the Nexus, and other forms of teleportation being shut-down, and the explosion of Luclin I'm sure they were doing their damndest to find out what was going on and may have seen the explosion coming and took measures. Something else to think about....When the Shissar originally ticked off the gods way-back-when they did so by using their magic to enter places they weren't supposed to right? So, when the gods came up w/ the idea to punish them  one would think that the gods would try to cut off the Shissar teleportation magic so they couldn't escape, sorta like they did later w/ the rest of the mortals, right? However, we know that they were able to use their teleportation magic to avoid the greenmist, which was a weapon created by the gods for their extermination. So....who's to say that they weren't able to circumvent the teleportation restrictions that the gods had enacted, and escape Luclin's destruction? I know, I know. We have no way of knowing if the gods thought of cutting of the teleportation magic, and maybe that's the reason they escaped in the first place, b/c the gods overlooked it. Eh, just thought I'd throw that out there.

[DrkVsr]

<span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Why can't the Shissar come back as an NPC race? What has armour got to do with anything hindering their return? They don't have to wear armour below the waist (just look at the giants, all they wear is grubby loincloths and boots)</span>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Why can't the Shissar come back as an NPC race? What has armour got to do with anything hindering their return? They don't have to wear armour below the waist (just look at the giants, all they wear is grubby loincloths and boots)</span></blockquote>Because they all blew up with the moon, perhaps?

[Rabid-Othmir]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #993300;">Why can't the Shissar come back as an NPC race? What has armour got to do with anything hindering their return? They don't have to wear armour below the waist (just look at the giants, all they wear is grubby loincloths and boots)</span></blockquote>Because they all blew up with the moon, perhaps?</blockquote>Simply from the track record of your claims one can deduce that there is a good chance they're not all dead.

[Lodrelhai]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact that the Shissar are legless really just precludes them from ever being PC's, at least w/ the current skeletal system. But I could see some type of workaround being done for NPC Shissar mobs, they'd just have to have painted on armor on their....legs.....tails...whatever, but they could have regular armor on the rest of their bodies.As for the Shissar possibly surviving Luclin's destruction? I'd say it is certainly within the realm of possibility and I would not be surprised at all. The Shissar were a very powerful, and intelligent race that was able to survive the wrath of the gods once in the past. With the amount of time between the Nexus, and other forms of teleportation being shut-down, and the explosion of Luclin I'm sure they were doing their damndest to find out what was going on and may have seen the explosion coming and took measures. Something else to think about....When the Shissar originally ticked off the gods way-back-when they did so by using their magic to enter places they weren't supposed to right? So, when the gods came up w/ the idea to punish them  one would think that the gods would try to cut off the Shissar teleportation magic so they couldn't escape, sorta like they did later w/ the rest of the mortals, right? However, we know that they were able to use their teleportation magic to avoid the greenmist, which was a weapon created by the gods for their extermination. So....who's to say that they weren't able to circumvent the teleportation restrictions that the gods had enacted, and escape Luclin's destruction? I know, I know. We have no way of knowing if the gods thought of cutting of the teleportation magic, and maybe that's the reason they escaped in the first place, b/c the gods overlooked it. Eh, just thought I'd throw that out there.</blockquote>If I remember right (and there's a good chance I don't) the Greenmist was unleashed specifically by Cazic Thule specifically because the Shissar were enslaving the Iksar.  This makes one possibility of why they didn't lose their teleport magic as that takes a joint effort of multiple gods. Another possibility is that for their teleport magic to be broken, their teleport center had to be destroyed or taken out of their control.  When Sol Ro's forces invaded the Nexus, people were still able to teleport out.  It was only after the alarm had been raised that the Nexus Scions discovered the spires were dead.  For the Shissar, since the intent was to kill them all at once, might as well just proceed with the genocide rather than attack their teleport center first and warn them that a god is after them.  Less chance of escapees that way.For the Shissar surviving Luclin, remember that the destruction of Luclin is relatively recent.  Between the invasion of the Nexus and the Shattering, we have the Second Rallosian War, the Rending, and a cool-down period after the Rending.  Assuming there were people currently on Luclin able to put up a hell of a fight (like, say, adventurers who regularly raided the godplanes and had shops there?), war on the moon could have gone on for years.  Seems to me that would be plenty of time for those who were so inclined to realize things were a mite bit dangerous and make alternate plans for exodus.So the possibility exists, I'd say.  For that matter, the possibility exists that some of the people who were trapped on Luclin when the spires went dead made it back to Norrath by a combination of research, effort, pooled resources, and blind luck - we might find a colony or three of them in a future expansion.That's one of the things I love about this game.  Anything's possible until the truth comes out.  ^_^

[Hagran]

When i first began playing EQ2 i was sad to see Luclin as a big smoldering wreck above my head.. however as the months, years etc pass.. am begining to think its not all dead, i believe we will return to the moon, one day.. just not soon..but then who knows?

[Rainmare]

It also depends on how far the war actually spread. many seem to assume the war spread over the entire moon. I think that it never went farther than Shadowhaven/Nexus. Shadowhaven called on their only ally, Shar Vahl. the Vah shir marched to Shadowhaven, and that is where this war took place, fighting over the control of the Dresolisk and the Nexus. There was no need for them to spread farther than that to do their job. and they make sure that certain races that might get away and screw things up don't know what's coming by limiting the war to a specific area.Also, you have to consider motivation. when the Combine forces first came to Luclin, they found thier ability to go home didn't exist. thier magics simply couldn't get past the black orb in the Nexus. it took them developing Shadowhaven from a colony/village into a fully realized city, and devoting their greatest minds, just to be able to get back home. The Shissar had no intention of going home. in fact they erected the Grey to prevent the greenmist of Norrath from following them. They didn't think they were safe from it on Luclin, and probably thought the greenmist was waiting for them to come back.

[Saroc_Luclin]

Yes at first, they made the Grey to protect themselves from the Greenmist, but as the years went on, they did not stay behind their Vacuum. They started spreading out from the Temple, to learn about Luclin (the moon) and to continue their studies and experiments. (One of their failures is in the Acrylia Caverns; a Shar Vahl driven mad from their attempts to raise it to God-hood; the Grimlings now worship him) Check out the description on EQBeastiary for Acrylia Caverns for a bit of that story. ( <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?zone=149" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s....shtml?zone=149</a> ) So you can be certain the Shissar were well aware of what was going on on Luclin even while they hid behind the vacuum. And they kept their studies up as well, so I doubt they 'lost' their knowledge of Teleportation magics; the Shissar very much seem to be the Boy Scouts of Norrath since their motto seems to be "Be Prepared". Oh and the Combine weren't trapped on Luclin due to lack of preparation or anything. They were trapped because of the Goddess of Shadows herself. For reasons unknown to anyone, Luclin herself periodically lifted the veil hiding the moon and let the various Norrath groups port up to her surface. (The Shissar, the Combine, the Seru and the Shar Vahl). Once they got there though, she actively discouraged further attempts to get back for years/centuries. Grieg, the Combine wizard who helped get the Combine to Luclin was driven mad by Luclin to keep him from coming up with a way to get back. It wasn't until EQ1's timeline that Luclin drew the veil back again and allowed 2 way travel to her domain. She also allowed connections to the planes from her domain as well (2 PoK books and later a direct connection between PoK and the Bazaar). My Theory is the Shissar got to Luclin and set up shop. They put their research on teleportation magic in cold storage and redirected their research in other directions (including into 'What makes a god?', probably hoping to retaliate against Cazic Thule eventually. It's a path Mayong went down as well, and I also suspect Mayong may have dropped some juicy hints in scaley ears through the years; but I digress). Since they weren't researching Teleportation, nor trying to get home, Luclin left them alone. Fast forward to EQ's time, and Luclin starts allowing 2 way traffic. The Shissar, now not only facing increased traffic from Norrathan Adventurers, but also face the risk of some of their experiments being aired in public, start preparing, dusting off the old magics and seeing what might be useful. In the EQII Time line, the Nexus is invaded and sealed off, not by Luclin but by foreign forces (that likely didn't make her happy). The Norrathan spires were tuned to the Nexus, so they shut down, along with 2 of the 3 connections to PoK. The Shar Vahl PoK book would have been the only remaining working connection, and it isn't exactly good for moving massed forces through. (Not to mention to get from Shar Vahl to the Nexus/Shadowhaven/Bazaar, you need to go through tunnels). I'd love to find out what was happening in PoK during that time period, but we'll probably never know. I suspect Rallos Zek and Sol Ro probably sent some of their forces there to at least cordon off the Luclin books and minimize communication with the moon. (We'll just assume Druid and Wizard ports were locked off with the Nexus for whatever reasons). Anyways, with the Nexus cut off, and Luclin's inhabitants gearing up for war to release it; word had to reach the Shissar and make them concerned. They did have virtually a direct connection with the Nexus region via their slave tunnels under the temple after all. So it wouldn't be surprising if they started looking for their escape route. Right next door to them, in Mon Letalis, they had Grieg's Folley waiting for them. A set of large scale spires, theoretically incomplete and likely untuned (since Grieg went wacko before he could finish them). I wouldn't put it past the snakes to slither over there, finish the spires while the rest of Luclin was fighting, (maybe tuning htem to the large ones on Kunark, which as others have noticed DO appear to be 'active', or maybe just to the ones in Great Divide or Tox forest) and get out of dodge while the getting was good. Plus, if those spires were active, some of the other Luclin groups may have been able to use them to get out (like the Seru who were right next to them as well; Katta Castellum's inhabitants would have had a harder time getting to them though, ditto for Shar Vahl). If you want ot handwave it a bit, that could explain how some of Luclin's flora and fauna got to Norrath too. (like the Owlbears in Nektulos). In Luclin's 'death throes', the connection the snakes opened went wild (maybe with some guidance from Luclin; she is mysterious), and grabbed random creatures and spit them out through the Norrathan spires and pyramids (like the ones that were in Nek, and the Commonlands).

[Kyle]

<cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want ot handwave it a bit, that could explain how some of Luclin's flora and fauna got to Norrath too. (like the Owlbears in Nektulos). In Luclin's 'death throes', the connection the snakes opened went wild (maybe with some guidance from Luclin; she is mysterious), and <b>grabbed random creatures and spit them out through the Norrathan spires and pyramids</b> (like the ones that were in Nek, and the Commonlands).</blockquote>Interesting point. I've always thought about that. After all, the owlbears didn't just FLY down to Norrath.I do believe the Shissar are still around.

[Cusashorn]

<p>the Owlbears could easily be explained with a very plausible theory:</p><p>Adventurers captured the owlbears up on luclin and brought them down for zoos and such in the cities on Norrath. One day, they managed to escape into the wild due to carelessness by the handlers or something.</p>

[dragontamer619]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Adventurers captured the owlbears up on luclin and brought them down for zoos and such in the cities on Norrath. One day, they managed to escape into the wild due to carelessness by the handlers or something.</p></blockquote><p>Best explaination ever.  =D  </p><p> It almost makes sense though.  Isn't there a quest in the Darklight Woods that rewards you with a pet owlbear?  </p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

True, I've always figured the Luclin fauna was the 'escaped zoo animals' theory too. But the mental images of a portal going out of control and zapping creatures randomly around the world can be fun to think of too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DrkVsr]

<span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The only way for Cusa's explanation can hold water is for the retro-introduction of other zoos, as far as ah can recall the only zoo on Norrath was in Ak`Anon</span>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The only way for Cusa's explanation can hold water is for the retro-introduction of other zoos, as far as ah can recall the only zoo on Norrath was in Ak`Anon</span></blockquote>You forget that not all of every city is represented in EQlive. Vhalen himself stated that a LARGE section of Freeport is dedicated as a rehabilitation and detention center for criminals, insane people, and the criminally insane. This asylum isn't shown in Freeport in any of the games.

[Kyle]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The only way for Cusa's explanation can hold water is for the retro-introduction of other zoos, as far as ah can recall the only zoo on Norrath was in Ak`Anon</span></blockquote>You forget that not all of every city is represented in EQlive. Vhalen himself stated that a LARGE section of Freeport is dedicated as a rehabilitation and detention center for criminals, insane people, and the criminally insane. This asylum isn't shown in Freeport in any of the games.</blockquote>Would be neat to see this asylum as a live update or something. Also, maybe the owlbears are pokemon!"I CHOOSE YOU OWLBEARZ"<img src="http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3432/pokemon13rk.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="272" border="0" />

[DrkVsr]

<span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Like ah said, retro-introduce them, as the only zoo even mentioned is the one in Klak`Anon</span>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<cite>Kyle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #993300;">The only way for Cusa's explanation can hold water is for the retro-introduction of other zoos, as far as ah can recall the only zoo on Norrath was in Ak`Anon</span></blockquote>You forget that not all of every city is represented in EQlive. Vhalen himself stated that a LARGE section of Freeport is dedicated as a rehabilitation and detention center for criminals, insane people, and the criminally insane. This asylum isn't shown in Freeport in any of the games.</blockquote>Would be neat to see this asylum as a live update or something. Also, maybe the owlbears are pokemon!"I CHOOSE YOU OWLBEARZ"<img src="http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3432/pokemon13rk.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="400" height="272" /></blockquote>Get with the times, They're clearly Chokemon monsters that a Chokemon trainer catches in Chokeballs. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[PassingStranger]

<p>Well the klak'anon zoo isn't really a "zoo" per se. That's just it's called cause they keep various lifeforms captive there. It's not like you can take the kids there on the weekend.  But you don't even need a zoo to explain why animals could get from luclin to norrath. Animals get transported to places they don't belong in the real world too (often at the expense of the new ecosystem), look at australia with animals like cats or rabbits.</p><p>I'm sure the shissar will remain "officially" extinct until it becomes convieniant or interesting to bring them back. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see them again. As a player race? I doubt it, aside from the whole "no legs, no feet, no business" rule, I think it's best to leave them as an NPC race simply out of the fact that being playable would diminish their grandeur. It's easy from them to be a powerful, mysterious, devious, elder race when they're all secluded and shut off from the rest of us. When you can play a race, they become a lot more "real", and it detracts from that.</p><p>I still don't understand how the grey can really be a vacuum, what with the fact that people could walk through it with no more than a breathing apparatus/spell. The bodies of most (if not all) animals would not survive in a vacuum long enough to asphyxiate. The properties of the grey seem to be more like a non-breathable atmosphere. But minor details, and not really related.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>PassingStranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I still don't understand how the grey can really be a vacuum, what with the fact that people could walk through it with no more than a breathing apparatus/spell. The bodies of most (if not all) animals would not survive in a vacuum long enough to asphyxiate. The properties of the grey seem to be more like a non-breathable atmosphere. But minor details, and not really related.</p></blockquote><p>This is a video game. Real world physics don't apply.</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

The Grey can be a vacuum; I just assume that the Everlasting Breath effects (along with all the other effects adventurers tend to have around them), act as a magical space suit around you. The population of the Grey is also fine for a vacuum area. Mainly rock elements (no need to breath), undead (no need to breath) and vacuum adapted worms. The main problem with the Grey, is that there is a pond of 'water' (it may be something else, but it seems like it is water, and it acts like a liquid), in the north west corner of the zone. Guess we just have to handwave it as magic water or something.

[Cusashorn]

I don't get it. How can water not exist in a vacuum? Remember there is still gravity and the water can be comming from underground.

[PassingStranger]

<p>The problem is that water cannot exist in a liquid form in a vacuum. It would boil and become water vapor, or in some instances, if the conditions are right, it might be frozen into ice. But the nature of a vacuum means that the water will try to equalize the lack of pressure and the molecules will spread out, becoming a gas. This is why being in a vacuum would kill you long before you had time to suffocate, since people are mostly water.</p><p>But yeah, I suppose the water breathing spells could be like spacesuit, but either way, like I said, not a really important point in a fantasy world.</p>

[Xita]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why do people keep hoping that a snake race, as in a race of snake men who have no legs to speak of whatsoever, would be included as a race into this game? If it isn't Bi-Pedal, it's not going to work with the armor system. >_<</blockquote><p>ah but SOE never has been very good about realistic anatomy... remember "teaching snakes to kick..."</p><p>if snakes can kick then they need, shoes, socks, and pants <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> maybe i can start a lobby to include socks as a new item slot!</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

Sadly, snakes no longer kick. They lost that ability a year or two ago. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rainmare]

I think the Shissar wouldn't have known because of their own arrogance. the only experiments they did involved a Vah Shir they captured not from around Shar Vahl, but because he got to close to them. the Shissar were xenophobic in the extreme. and Grieg's End, while yes, Luclin did drive Grieg to madness, the entire area of Grieg's tower and research was a madhouse of mind distorting energy. that was part of her failsafe. that anyone attempting to free Grieg or continue his research would suffer his fate.Seru was trapped in his chamber. so no going anywhere for him at least. and without Seru, his little kingdom would probably self destruct. Katta was too far away, and dealing with the vampyre problem. Shar Vahl was close enough to offer military support, and they did, but obviously they didn't succeed.  and the capture of the Nexus deactivated all the spires. the ones that came to Norrath, and ones that left from norrath. so no race there has a viable means to get home except for the PoK books. with the nexus captured, that left only the book near shar Vahl. and I imagine the Gods either deactivated those as well...or had troops ready to detain arrivals into PoK.Of course, we can bypass the entire 'did they survive the explosion' thing with a simple theory. during the Age of Turmoil, the adventurers running into thier temple, probably means that they would have figured out, either through capture and interrogation, or a bit of assumption on thier part, that Norrath was not covered in the Green Mist. thus, they sent some of thier own back to norrath during the time before the shutting down of the spires and the like, and those scouts remain hidden as of right now.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Rainy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of course, we can bypass the entire 'did they survive the explosion' thing with a simple theory. during the Age of Turmoil, the adventurers running into thier temple, probably means that they would have figured out, either through capture and interrogation, or a bit of assumption on thier part, that Norrath was not covered in the Green Mist. thus, they sent some of thier own back to norrath during the time before the shutting down of the spires and the like, and those scouts remain hidden as of right now.</blockquote><p>Or they knew the greenmist only affected whatever race it violated Cazic Thule's property and beings, because they saw with thier own eyes that the Iksar were immune to it.</p>

[Xita]

<cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sadly, snakes no longer kick. They lost that ability a year or two ago. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote>maybe it was the green mist that caused the snakes to lose the ability to kick...

[Sartredes]

<cite>Xita@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sadly, snakes no longer kick. They lost that ability a year or two ago. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote>maybe it was the green mist that caused the snakes to lose the ability to kick...</blockquote>No. Some epic level group of 4th and 5th level adventurers killed all the warders and woke the Moss Snake. From that point, snakes lost the ability to kick and ruined Qeynos Hills area for the rest of us.

[Saroc_Luclin]

*Shudder* The Moss Snake *hides somewhere isolated in fear*

[DMIstar]

Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen. </blockquote><p>1. That expansion is not part of EQ2's lore or history, so the Shissar don't exist on Norrath until the developers decide to say otherwise.</p><p>2. No. The Shissar were never intended as a player race in EQlive.</p>

[DMIstar]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen. </blockquote><p>1. That expansion is not part of EQ2's lore or history, so the Shissar don't exist on Norrath until the developers decide to say otherwise.</p><p>2. No. The Shissar were never intended as a player race in EQlive.</p></blockquote>1. Yeah EQ2s lore history is Veliouse Melted ....... Umm yeah ... There realy is no Lore history in "EQ2" to say about the shissar... As for nit picking, IM sorry but your nit picking now what you want ... and considereing SoF ...2. the info is to old for some /shrug

[DMIstar]

Other then the above with the shissar .... As they Said they have enough storyline on EQ to last years we will never know When they run out, If they even do..  Not like they are going to come out and say ohh we are out of lore =P.. But  i highly doubt they are anywhere close.. Though this expansion shows Shissar are not forgotten what so ever... The deepest part of Kunkar lore was resurrected... Chelsith, Shissars own capital city is now open once again.. The only other being to walk into chelsith after they left was VS in order to gain thier power, And this was back long before even ganak Reigned king and jaleds dars death. So either VS came back and reopeneded or something did, I highly doubt frogs have the mental capacity to reopen the seals to the door.

[Hannalynn]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen. </blockquote><p>1. That expansion is not part of EQ2's lore or history, so the Shissar don't exist on Norrath until the developers decide to say otherwise.</p><p>2. No. The Shissar were never intended as a player race in EQlive.</p></blockquote>I think my biggest problem with the whole expansion isn't a part of EQ2's time line stuff is that whether said or not, even before the expansions were released these things were living there anyway. It's just that no one knew about it until the expansion was released. So, these things are still living under there (or maybe not after 500 years who knows) its just that we dont have an expansion telling us about it? So we live in ignorance because of an expansion, thats fine. It doesnt change the fact that they dont still exist without our knowledge. So who knows, they could still be down there, on Norrath devising all their ways. Afterall they didnt magiclly pop up just because SoE released an expansion... that's just when people found out about them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Saroc_Luclin]

With regards to the Everquest Timelines, don't think of it as 1 line splitting into two. Think of it as 2 lines going in parallel, but occasionally one bends slightly where the other one doesn't. In the large scale view, they are VERY similar (up to the PoTime events). In the fine view, you notice more differences in the 'pasts' of each time line. Thus when EQLive comes out with an expansion that says "They were always here and we never noticed", EQII is not forced to acknowledge it, even though "They" would (in EQLive's timeline) have been around before the PoP split. Events that are revealed to us in EQLive after EQII's launch may or may not have occurred that way in EQII as well (and vice versa); that is up to the Dev's to decide. Note: That does NOT mean that just because an event occurs in EQLive after the split, it didn't occur in EQII's past; it just means that it may or may not have occured and we can speculate about it up until we get firm information one way or another.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Hannalynn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen. </blockquote><p>1. That expansion is not part of EQ2's lore or history, so the Shissar don't exist on Norrath until the developers decide to say otherwise.</p><p>2. No. The Shissar were never intended as a player race in EQlive.</p></blockquote>I think my biggest problem with the whole expansion isn't a part of EQ2's time line stuff is that whether said or not, even before the expansions were released these things were living there anyway. It's just that no one knew about it until the expansion was released. So, these things are still living under there (or maybe not after 500 years who knows) its just that we dont have an expansion telling us about it? So we live in ignorance because of an expansion, thats fine. It doesnt change the fact that they dont still exist without our knowledge. So who knows, they could still be down there, on Norrath devising all their ways. Afterall they didnt magiclly pop up just because SoE released an expansion... that's just when people found out about them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Or you could just say taht the shissar didn't end up getting Retconned into the storyline as having lived down underwater for centuries until the developers decided to put it in.</p><p>EQ2's grandfather clause takes effect here. Just because some expansion that came out after EQ2 states that the shissar have been living underwater for countless centuries doesn't mean they exist underwater in EQ2 somewhere.</p>

[Hannalynn]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hannalynn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm Shissar where not only found in Luclin in EQ... Actually There was an Expansion out on them being in the depths of the seas ... So anything regarding them all being blown up in Luclin is kinda off base ... I'm quite sure they are around.Secondly, SSRA was built orignally to hold them as a player race .. but this was never done, So was reverted into a just being npcs. They would be interesting if they where a playable race.. but i doubt that will happen. </blockquote><p>1. That expansion is not part of EQ2's lore or history, so the Shissar don't exist on Norrath until the developers decide to say otherwise.</p><p>2. No. The Shissar were never intended as a player race in EQlive.</p></blockquote>I think my biggest problem with the whole expansion isn't a part of EQ2's time line stuff is that whether said or not, even before the expansions were released these things were living there anyway. It's just that no one knew about it until the expansion was released. So, these things are still living under there (or maybe not after 500 years who knows) its just that we dont have an expansion telling us about it? So we live in ignorance because of an expansion, thats fine. It doesnt change the fact that they dont still exist without our knowledge. So who knows, they could still be down there, on Norrath devising all their ways. Afterall they didnt magiclly pop up just because SoE released an expansion... that's just when people found out about them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Or you could just say taht the shissar didn't end up getting Retconned into the storyline as having lived down underwater for centuries until the developers decided to put it in.</p><p>EQ2's grandfather clause takes effect here. Just because some expansion that came out after EQ2 states that the shissar have been living underwater for countless centuries doesn't mean they exist underwater in EQ2 somewhere.</p></blockquote>It's true they might not be there anymore, they might still be there blissfully unaware of anything going on or whatever, but I like to think they are there even if we don't know it wandering around on the surface. Either way I believe it would be well cool to see the shissar slithering around in the world of eq again.

[DMIstar]

Fact is, its pure speculation of one way or the other... To me since saying that ohh it can't be part of the storyline due to i don't  like it .. To me is a cop out. Theres nothing here to show that EQ2 is saying that any of this lore is not irrelivent, or they are not considering it...The EQ2 Time line is created of the knowledge of the mortals that have lived to see it, It is no way an exact piece of a history time line as we've been reading over and over ... Theres a ton of examples that prove the time line wrong, Kunark being one of them. I heard fairy tales of cabalis being underwater due to crater hitting Lake of ill omen... But yet what we have is the lake exactly how it should of been in EQ ... anyway this is nothing other then driving this off topic. Basis is, Can shissar still be around.. I say yes.. though im disapointed at theres not much of the old relics, artifacts in chelsith.

[Gukkor2]

What evidence there is currently indicates that the Mistmoore story arc from EQLive (i.e. Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro, and The Buried Sea) did basically happen in EQ2's timeline.  Since Katta Castrum was central to the end of that story arc, and the Shissar living on Norrath were located in an artificial environment built by and neighboring Katta Castrum, I'm going to say that those Shissar are there in EQ2 or were at some point.  I'm guessing, though, that the city and the adjacent biotopes were wiped out by the Rending, given that they were at the bottom of the ocean and all.  We'll probably never see nor hear of them.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>What evidence there is currently indicates that the Mistmoore story arc from EQLive (i.e. Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro, and The Buried Sea) did basically happen in EQ2's timeline.  Since Katta Castrum was central to the end of that story arc, and the Shissar living on Norrath were located in an artificial environment built by and neighboring Katta Castrum, I'm going to say that those Shissar are there in EQ2 or were at some point.  I'm guessing, though, that the city and the adjacent biotopes were wiped out by the Rending, given that they were at the bottom of the ocean and all.  We'll probably never see nor hear of them.</blockquote><p>Actually, EQ2 states:</p><p>-Mayong Became a god</p><p>-Mayong chose to go back to being an undead immortal vampire.</p><p>  </p><p>What is not explained is:</p><p>-How he became a god</p><p>-If adventurers were the reason why he decided to go back to being a vampire.</p><p>In other words, There's no details that confirm or deny the involvement of the Depths of Darkhollow expansion and those others you listed.</p>

[Kahluacat]

<p>Not really on topic, but goes with the title of the thread regardless... found these tablets during the "Fistful of Metal" questline.</p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Pekil_Tazikk/thefirstshissar.jpg" alt="" width="621" height="492" border="0" /></p><p>Perhaps the Shissar used to be Iksar? The snake like humanoid part of the fourth tablet seems to suggest such a thing... unless it was just the magical bracelets and such casting an illusion on him.</p>

[Rainmare]

if this is the same Iksar in all 4 tablets, then it might be that something happened to an early iksar 'in the darkness' that made him a Shissar. though I'll wager it was more something that the Shissar got him, took his form in an illusion/spell...then took the throne before revealing his true nature.or maybe it's an allusion, and a derogatory one, of Venril. it could depict his rise to power, doing the impossible of uniting the tribes, but once in power as Emperor, he was no better than the Shissar before him.

[Kahluacat]

Maybe, but it does say it predates the Sebilisian Empire. You would think tablets refering to Venril would be made after his ascension, not before.

[Rainmare]

or during, the last one being made when Venril finally got the empire going and crowned himself emperor. after all, before Venril, the last 'emperor' they had was the Shissar.

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Other then the above with the shissar .... As they Said they have enough storyline on EQ to last years we will never know When they run out, If they even do..  Not like they are going to come out and say ohh we are out of lore =P.. But  i highly doubt they are anywhere close.. Though this expansion shows Shissar are not forgotten what so ever... The deepest part of Kunkar lore was resurrected... Chelsith, Shissars own capital city is now open once again.. The only other being to walk into chelsith after they left was VS in order to gain thier power, And this was back long before even ganak Reigned king and jaleds dars death. So either VS came back and reopeneded or something did, I highly doubt frogs have the mental capacity to reopen the seals to the door.</blockquote>The Yah'Lei or whatever they are called rule there now.  Fishmen.

[Cusashorn]

The Shissar didn't turn into the Iksar or vice versa. They are very clearly two seperate races. Despite the bitter hatred between each other, I'm sure the iksar would keep a record that revealed this information. Thier physical differences are just too radical too. Changing from a biped to a snake would require pretty much a god himself to change your race instead of evolution. I'm not talking the forced magical evolution those erudites went through either. They're still bi-pedal humans in the end.

[Kahluacat]

Not saying they evolved into shissar, but the fourth tablet clearly states the iksar wizard warrior changed form into a snake like humanoid. Perhaps through whatever ritual this iksar did by donning the ornate jewelery he transformed his physical state into that of a shissar. Has it ever been clearly stated where the Shissar came from? Only lore I've seen states that they were punished by Cazic Thule and that they enslaved the Iksar. The Iksar seem to have no qualms about enslavement towards weaker races, perhaps a group of them underwent a ritual, became shissar, and deemed other iksar as lessers, then enslaved their own kind. Just a thought...

[Cusashorn]

Yeah it was mentioned somewhere that Cazic Thule created the Shissar and deposited them on Kunark along with the iksar. The Shissar just grew so powerful that they defied his will by enslaving the Iksar and refusing to believe he even existed.

[Ujina]

and what about a big chunk of Luclin falling on Norrath, there are plenty of them around the world. And what if this shard of luclin was big like, let say temple of Ssra ?The shissars could have protected their pyramid from the "trip" and impact.

[Rainmare]

it's possible, but very unlikely. Ssra temple was mostly built underground. the bulk of it is below the surface, and an explosion from the interior of the planet would rip that area apart far more than the surface might suggest. not to mention, if space in norrath's universe acts like ours, it's a powerful vaccum odds are it would only take one good tear into the temple to have it torn apart fairly quickly, and most shissar in those area would instantly get thrown into space.really it comes down to knowing it's coming or not. the Shissar had the power to survive escape if they had warning. Odds are, though, they didn't have any and were caught completely offguard. I doubt the shissar survived the trip from luclin to norrath.And they certainly aren't in Kunark, the only landmass they were pretty familiar with and were part of the regular inhabitants, so to speak. a Shissar in Kunark might not be as quickly found as one in Faydwer or Antonica. but with Venril's empire owning 75% of the continent, the rest inhabited by the last remnants of other races or the Dragons, someone would have found them by now. Even the waters of Kunark are inhabited by intelligent life that would have probably instantly considered them an enemy.If there are Shissar on Norrath, my guess is that they are on a continent/Island we haven't found or rediscovered yet. Come to think of it, with the sudden jump in power of the Erudites, harnessing power enough to phyiscally alter thier entire race wether or not they were on Odus, it wouldn't surprise me if any surviving remnant of the Shissar from Luclin found themselves on Odus and traded power/knowledge for a foothold of survival on the continent while they establish themselves.

[Saroc_Luclin]

Remember, The Temple of Ssra has ALREADY been transported once. It used to be located in the Overthere, in the canyons where Howling Stones is now. To escape the Greenmist way back then, they ported the entire temple up to Luclin and set it down around the river that went between the Grey and Scarlet Desert. They then magically formed the vacuum dome over the Grey, damming up the river and indirectly forming the Scarlet Desert. So it is not that hard to believe that if the Dev's wanted to bring the snakes back, they could easily bring the Emperor and his cronies back from Luclin before the moon shattered.

[KirthKainnech]

Had a defiler in our chelsith group tonight to get their update off the last boss. The item was called a Shissarian Dreamward, its description was something like "..Depicts a snake like creature sleeping inside a barrier..." which is interesting because on a platform just down from where this is obtained is a large globe like structure with alot of fishmen guarding it.

[Kryussius]

<p>It's very possible that the Shissar will make a return at some point.</p><p>I'm amongst those who hoped they would be the new race that came in with RoK, but Sarnak are ... something I used to murder with reckless and wild abandon in The Overthere.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Doing the modeling can be done - it's just a matter of dev work, which they've got their hands full I'm guessing, since this game is pretty much being run a hell of alot better than Vanguard or SWG ever has seen.</p><p>The history of the Shissar is a great source for Lore and stories since it's largely unexplored (at least to my knowledge) and they were one of the first races to buck the will of the gods.  Rallos' creations got the smackdown, and so did the Shissar, but eventually all the races rose up to challenge the gods.  </p><p>Being one of the first to have the power to do so, I'm betting the snake-men had the power to survive multiple genocide attempts.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Kryussius@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's very possible that the Shissar will make a return at some point.</p><p>I'm amongst those who hoped they would be the new race that came in with RoK, but Sarnak are ... something I used to murder with reckless and wild abandon in The Overthere.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Doing the modeling can be done - it's just a matter of dev work, which they've got their hands full I'm guessing, since this game is pretty much being run a hell of alot better than Vanguard or SWG ever has seen.</p><p>The history of the Shissar is a great source for Lore and stories since it's largely unexplored (at least to my knowledge) and they were one of the first races to buck the will of the gods.  Rallos' creations got the smackdown, and so did the Shissar, but eventually all the races rose up to challenge the gods.  </p><p>Being one of the first to have the power to do so, I'm betting the snake-men had the power to survive multiple genocide attempts.</p></blockquote>The armor system and design wouldn't allow for a non-bipedal race.

[ZexisStryfe]

<p>Regarding the tablets froma Fistful of Metal. To me i t doesn't seem like the Iksar changed into a Shissar, but actually was a shissar.</p><p>In tablets 1 and 2 it is an iksar. At the end of tablet 2 the iksar gets lost. It is my interpretation that the iksar who left the water in tablet 3 is not the original, but a shissar replacement with an iksar illusion to look like the original iksar. Then in tablet 4 the "iksar" becomes ruler of all the iksar tribes, explaining how the iksar became a slave race to the shissar.</p><p> Just my 2 cents...</p>

[KirthKainnech]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kryussius@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's very possible that the Shissar will make a return at some point.</p><p>I'm amongst those who hoped they would be the new race that came in with RoK, but Sarnak are ... something I used to murder with reckless and wild abandon in The Overthere.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Doing the modeling can be done - it's just a matter of dev work, which they've got their hands full I'm guessing, since this game is pretty much being run a hell of alot better than Vanguard or SWG ever has seen.</p><p>The history of the Shissar is a great source for Lore and stories since it's largely unexplored (at least to my knowledge) and they were one of the first races to buck the will of the gods.  Rallos' creations got the smackdown, and so did the Shissar, but eventually all the races rose up to challenge the gods.  </p><p>Being one of the first to have the power to do so, I'm betting the snake-men had the power to survive multiple genocide attempts.</p></blockquote>The armor system and design wouldn't allow for a non-bipedal race.</blockquote>They made helms work with Sarnak horns, Shissar can have tail coverings instead of leggings and boots.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>KirthKainnech wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kryussius@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's very possible that the Shissar will make a return at some point.</p><p>I'm amongst those who hoped they would be the new race that came in with RoK, but Sarnak are ... something I used to murder with reckless and wild abandon in The Overthere.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Doing the modeling can be done - it's just a matter of dev work, which they've got their hands full I'm guessing, since this game is pretty much being run a hell of alot better than Vanguard or SWG ever has seen.</p><p>The history of the Shissar is a great source for Lore and stories since it's largely unexplored (at least to my knowledge) and they were one of the first races to buck the will of the gods.  Rallos' creations got the smackdown, and so did the Shissar, but eventually all the races rose up to challenge the gods.  </p><p>Being one of the first to have the power to do so, I'm betting the snake-men had the power to survive multiple genocide attempts.</p></blockquote>The armor system and design wouldn't allow for a non-bipedal race.</blockquote>They made helms work with Sarnak horns, Shissar can have tail coverings instead of leggings and boots.</blockquote>Have you seen most of the class helmets on Sarnaks? They look NOTHING like the rest of the races. Besides, modifying a helmet is significantly different from adding in a race who doesn't have any legs or feet to equip armor on. How would mounts work? How would flying a griffon or riding a horse work on a race with no legs?

[TheKons]

Side Saddle!!!J/k I also believe its very improbably and a waste of resources to make them a playable race

[Kryussius]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kryussius@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's very possible that the Shissar will make a return at some point.</p><p>I'm amongst those who hoped they would be the new race that came in with RoK, but Sarnak are ... something I used to murder with reckless and wild abandon in The Overthere.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p>Doing the modeling can be done - it's just a matter of dev work, which they've got their hands full I'm guessing, since this game is pretty much being run a hell of alot better than Vanguard or SWG ever has seen.</p><p>The history of the Shissar is a great source for Lore and stories since it's largely unexplored (at least to my knowledge) and they were one of the first races to buck the will of the gods.  Rallos' creations got the smackdown, and so did the Shissar, but eventually all the races rose up to challenge the gods.  </p><p>Being one of the first to have the power to do so, I'm betting the snake-men had the power to survive multiple genocide attempts.</p></blockquote>The armor system and design wouldn't allow for a non-bipedal race.</blockquote><p>Because there's no such thing as developers actually writing code to alter something, right?  Hell, if nothing else, the leg and feet slot could take items that just don't appear, making them have a snake body from the waist down.</p><p>If they want to put Shissar in game, they can make it work.  That's what us big kids call "programming".</p>

[Apocroph]

In case you guys weren't paying attention the first time Cusa pointed out the major problem with this idea, I've quoted it here to remind you.  Take note of the issues that aren't solved by simply "not making those items show" - I've highlighted them in red.Cusashorn wrote:<blockquote><cite></cite>Besides, modifying a helmet is significantly different from adding in a race who doesn't have any legs or feet to equip armor on. <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How would mounts work? How would flying a griffon or riding a horse work on a race with no legs?</span></b></blockquote>

[Kryussius]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>In case you guys weren't paying attention the first time Cusa pointed out the major problem with this idea, I've quoted it here to remind you.  Take note of the issues that aren't solved by simply "not making those items show" - I've highlighted them in red.Cusashorn wrote:<blockquote><cite></cite>Besides, modifying a helmet is significantly different from adding in a race who doesn't have any legs or feet to equip armor on. <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How would mounts work? How would flying a griffon or riding a horse work on a race with no legs?</span></b></blockquote></blockquote><p>In case it slipped both of your grasps, let me remind you that this is a game whose physics and features are defined by programming.</p><p>There's not a graphics issue that can't be coded around.</p><p>Make Shissar ride side saddle.  Problem solved.</p><p>The question isn't if the devs *can* do it.  It's if they're *willing* to do it, or if they get told to do it.</p><p>Unless either you or Cus are on the dev team, you can't really say what they can or can't do with any kind of credibility.</p>

[Apocroph]

<cite>Kryussius@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>In case you guys weren't paying attention the first time Cusa pointed out the major problem with this idea, I've quoted it here to remind you.  Take note of the issues that aren't solved by simply "not making those items show" - I've highlighted them in red.Cusashorn wrote:<blockquote><cite></cite>Besides, modifying a helmet is significantly different from adding in a race who doesn't have any legs or feet to equip armor on. <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How would mounts work? How would flying a griffon or riding a horse work on a race with no legs?</span></b></blockquote></blockquote><p>In case it slipped both of your grasps, let me remind you that this is a game whose physics and features are defined by programming.</p><p>There's not a graphics issue that can't be coded around.</p><p>Make Shissar ride side saddle.  Problem solved.</p><p>The question isn't if the devs *can* do it.  It's if they're *willing* to do it, or if they get told to do it.</p><p>Unless either you or Cus are on the dev team, you can't really say what they can or can't do with any kind of credibility.</p></blockquote>I can tell you what is within the realm of likely happenings with plenty of credibility.  Don't count on a non-bipedal race as a playable one in EQ2.  There's a whole lot of retrofitting to be done to accomodate such a race, and you and I both know perfectly well that the devs aren't likely to make such an effort for a playable race.  It just doesn't fall within the bounds of reasonable plausibility.The devs can't just snap their fingers and make the Shissar ride side-saddle.  You're looking at a very involved coding process to even allow such a thing.Unless you've had experience with game design yourself, you can't really say what can or can't be done with any kind of credibility.  It's not as simple as you'd have us believe it is.

[troodon]

They'd have to get pretty inventive to put Shissar Monks into the game.

[Allisia]

The primary reason there will never be a shissar player race is simply because making anything a player race removes their mystique. Once the players get them, they stop being cool and intriguing. The first time I see a shissar player with the name "Snakeskin Bootz" I'm canceling my subscription. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Shemyaza]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote>They'd have to get pretty inventive to put Shissar Monks into the game.</blockquote>yup, they'd have to have snakes that kick again!

[Mirander_1]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote>They'd have to get pretty inventive to put Shissar Monks into the game.</blockquote>What?  You've never heard of the Moss Snake brand of martial arts? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[TheLopper]

<p>To all the people saying that they can ride "side saddle," [Removed for Content] is wrong with you?  Do you know how incredibly dumb that would look?</p><p>They would have to implement entirely new mounts, different flying-post-mounts, and completely different armor appearances.  Yeah...they're really going to do all that for one race.The amount of work required is just not feasible.</p><p>Some type of Gnoll is feasible, hell, even the Sporconids are feasible, but Shissar?  No.  Maybe even the otters from Velious...but I doubt it.</p>

[Shebara]

<p>Ok... listen to the loremistress of Kunark...</p><p>The Shissar were indeed created alongside the Iksar, and the two races lived seperately. Then, the Shissar grew in power and looked towards the Iksar, who were NOT UNITED, they were living in their seperate tribes. So, they enslaved the Iksar. What ticked off Cazic was the fact that they threw out their faith in him while the Iksar kept theirs, and the Shissar began to think of themselves as gods. So, the Greenmist came, and after a while, the five tribes... Obulus, Jarsath, Kylong, Kunzar, and Nathsar... were soon at war with one another. At around this time. Venril Sathir of the Kunzar came into power, conquered the others, and made the Sebilisian Empire.</p><p>EDIT: Cazic created the trolls, too... though I find it amusing that trolls look a lot like Innoruuk</p>

[RatWithGun]

<p>Erm.</p><p>Firstly 500 years ago Venril was an outcast hold up in Karnors Castle with seemly only Mayong his only ally, Im sure the Iskar Empire which took hold in Seblis was ruled by the emperor who fought the dragon over the field of bone, Seblis fell and was occupied by Trakanon. The new Iskar empire was rebuilt in the new city of Cablis which in turn was destroyed in the Age of Turmoil, Venril brought together the shattered Iskar empire though coersion and the threat posed by the Overking. Venril sees himself as a god and forbids the worship of cazic thule.q</p>

[Shebara]

<p>Nope. Emperor Atrebe Sathir, creater of the sarnak and the sokokar, was, I believe, the third emperor in line after Venril. Venril was indeed first. Jaled'Dar came to destroy Cabilis during the war with the ring of scale, and Atrebe and Jaled had a massive fight, the result was both of them being destroyed and the Field of Bone created.</p><p>Also... the Empire didn't start 500 years ago <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[DMIstar]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>In case you guys weren't paying attention the first time Cusa pointed out the major problem with this idea, I've quoted it here to remind you.  Take note of the issues that aren't solved by simply "not making those items show" - I've highlighted them in red.Cusashorn wrote:<blockquote>Besides, modifying a helmet is significantly different from adding in a race who doesn't have any legs or feet to equip armor on. <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How would mounts work? How would flying a griffon or riding a horse work on a race with no legs?</span></b></blockquote></blockquote>I guess devs should of gone this same logic with the sarnak and made a more humaniod race ....  yeah right...  thing is, when rideing mounts on here, its a different visual code.. You apear on the mount and Realy dont move other then a rideing sequence thats repeated over and over till you hit your destination. with that type of sequence codeing you can pretty much play around with that, do whatever is seen fit. Hell dureing beta Characters where standing on sokar to ride them.. Why becuase thats how they where riden Lore wise. But that didnt turn out to well on graphics wise on here. Plus this is only trying to say that mankind with all its millions of fantasy creations out there, only ever dipicted a creation requireing two legs to ever ride a air born beast or other creation....

[Sylaz]

Maybe I'm weird, but I can picture the Shissar riding mounts not too unlike other characters, only difference being instead of straddling the mount (hard to do with no legs), they simply wrap their tail around the mount, much like a snake would grip a tree branch. The only problem I can see with that is if the mount is relatively low to the ground (rhinos), they might not have room to get underneath.Then for the carpet/platform type mounts, simply have them coil their tails to sit on them.Armor could be added as plates on the tail, and a tip in place of boots, or simply not shown as has been suggested.However, they're going to have a do a ton of lore work to even consider adding them as a player race. The last thing we need is another Ratonga situation where even the Ratonga themselves don't know how they really ended up where they are.

[DeBasilisk]

<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=25665" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s....shtml?id=25665</a>To those who imagine PC Shissar riding mounts, wearing leggings or kicking etc.....Consider the above image.Plus, the heck with the Shissar as a PC race! Foul heretics, weaklings........Only the Iksar shall triumph in the end!

[Rainmare]

<cite>Shebara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Nope. Emperor Atrebe Sathir, creater of the sarnak and the sokokar, was, I believe, the third emperor in line after Venril. Venril was indeed first. Jaled'Dar came to destroy Cabilis during the war with the ring of scale, and Atrebe and Jaled had a massive fight, the result was both of them being destroyed and the Field of Bone created.</p><p>Also... the Empire didn't start 500 years ago <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Venril did form the first empire. Rile took over after him, then Atrebe, then Ganak, then Chottal, I beleive.Atrebe made teh Sokokars and the Sarnak.But it was Ganak that died in combat with Jaled Dar. that's why he's called 'the Darslayer'not entirely sure what Chottal did of note before he died.and Rile's big thing was the iksar navy, that Trakanon and co destroyed in a huge battle as well.But the Shissar, are for all intents and purposes, pretty much extinct in Norrath. even in EQ1, they were only found on the moon, and in the Katta city in the buried sea expansion.the Moon we know is destroyed more or less, along with everything on it.we haven't even found odus yet, much less a hidden underwater city to find Shissar in.

[Allisia]

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>the Moon we know is destroyed more or less, along with everything on it.</blockquote>That's a very large presumption, given there is no evidence to support it.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Arrex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>the Moon we know is destroyed more or less, along with everything on it.</blockquote>That's a very large presumption, given there is no evidence to support it.</blockquote>All you gotta do is look up each night to see the broken continents and chunks barely being held together by it's own gravitational pull, the surfaces scorched black from the fire and explosions...

[Gukkor2]

Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).

[TheLopper]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).</blockquote><p>If I remember correctly, Luclin (in EQ1) never looked very populated- ever.  Just throwing that out there.</p><p>I might be wrong though, it's been awhile <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Hukklebuk]

<cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite><blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=25665" target="_blank">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s....shtml?id=25665</a>To those who imagine PC Shissar riding mounts, wearing leggings or kicking etc.....Consider the above image.Plus, the heck with the Shissar as a PC race! Foul heretics, weaklings........Only the Iksar shall triumph in the end!</blockquote>snakes coil around objects to hang on to them~  probably choke the air out of a flying mount, but well, that's what they do........or perhaps they could hang from the claws of the griffons and sok's as they travel~(just figured while we're putting the improbable out there....)

[DMIstar]

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).</blockquote><p>If I remember correctly, Luclin (in EQ1) never looked very populated- ever.  Just throwing that out there.</p><p>I might be wrong though, it's been awhile <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>No it never did look "populated" I never looked like a real planet. Hence why most of the zones where underground. Only Patches on the surface where used. sparingly, Some areas showed growth, but many others where like the grey void of air ;P..I dont think the shissar are still there, But I sure as hell do not believe they where erradicated from existance.. Remember Thier own god tried to do that originally and failed miserably, To think they all the sudden die due to a in direct attack on them would kill them... Lol no.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).</blockquote><p>If I remember correctly, Luclin (in EQ1) never looked very populated- ever.  Just throwing that out there.</p><p>I might be wrong though, it's been awhile <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>No it never did look "populated" I never looked like a real planet. Hence why most of the zones where underground. Only Patches on the surface where used. sparingly, Some areas showed growth, but many others where like the grey void of air ;P..I dont think the shissar are still there, But I sure as hell do not believe they where erradicated from existance.. Remember Thier own god tried to do that originally and failed miserably, To think they all the sudden die due to a in direct attack on them would kill them... Lol no. </blockquote>If Cazic Thule had "failed miserably" as you put it, then I think the Shissar would still be living on Kunark. Whether he intended to eradicate the race entirely may or may not be known, but what he did accomplish was that the Shissar once again acknowledged his existance, because they fled, and created The Grey to protect themselves, because the Greenmist scares the crap out of them.

[DMIstar]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).</blockquote><p>If I remember correctly, Luclin (in EQ1) never looked very populated- ever.  Just throwing that out there.</p><p>I might be wrong though, it's been awhile <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>No it never did look "populated" I never looked like a real planet. Hence why most of the zones where underground. Only Patches on the surface where used. sparingly, Some areas showed growth, but many others where like the grey void of air ;P..I dont think the shissar are still there, But I sure as hell do not believe they where erradicated from existance.. Remember Thier own god tried to do that originally and failed miserably, To think they all the sudden die due to a in direct attack on them would kill them... Lol no. </blockquote>If Cazic Thule had "failed miserably" as you put it, then I think the Shissar would still be living on Kunark. Whether he intended to eradicate the race entirely may or may not be known, but what he did accomplish was that the Shissar once again acknowledged his existance, because they fled, and created The Grey to protect themselves, because the Greenmist scares the crap out of them.</blockquote>Ohh come on, but according to EQ lore they still lived on and near kunark...  agian a whole expansion on that lol Yeah Cazic Failed Miserabley.. He set out to do a job.. To kill off the shissar once and for all .. and guess what ...

[DeBasilisk]

"failed miserably," ???Oh come on, there wasn't a single Shissar survivor anywhere near Kunark in EQLive. The only survivors of the Greenmist fled with their tails between their.....tails, to Luclin, and a few pathetic stragglers ended up living buried under the sea.No, Cazic did exactly what he wanted to; he smote them like punks, and left just enough survivors to provide him with that sweet sweet Fear he so loves.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Norrathians look up at Drinal, and they can tell that it's barren and devoid of life. Luclin looks like Drinal now, except broken apart and on fire, so I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that nothing that was on Luclin at the time of its destruction survived (except maybe some fire elementals or xakra worms, but even that's doubtful).</blockquote><p>If I remember correctly, Luclin (in EQ1) never looked very populated- ever.  Just throwing that out there.</p><p>I might be wrong though, it's been awhile <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>No it never did look "populated" I never looked like a real planet. Hence why most of the zones where underground. Only Patches on the surface where used. sparingly, Some areas showed growth, but many others where like the grey void of air ;P..I dont think the shissar are still there, But I sure as hell do not believe they where erradicated from existance.. Remember Thier own god tried to do that originally and failed miserably, To think they all the sudden die due to a in direct attack on them would kill them... Lol no. </blockquote>If Cazic Thule had "failed miserably" as you put it, then I think the Shissar would still be living on Kunark. Whether he intended to eradicate the race entirely may or may not be known, but what he did accomplish was that the Shissar once again acknowledged his existance, because they fled, and created The Grey to protect themselves, because the Greenmist scares the crap out of them.</blockquote>Ohh come on, but according to EQ lore they still lived on and near kunark...  agian a whole expansion on that lol Yeah Cazic Failed Miserabley.. He set out to do a job.. To kill off the shissar once and for all .. and guess what ... </blockquote>Never happened in EQ2, so it doesn't apply.

[DMIstar]

<p>Yeah cause your timeline distortion between and EQ and EQ2 magically begins where you want it.. So now it starts before the shissar are supposedly erradicated ...</p><p>where does it hop to next lol </p><p> /sarcasm off</p>

[Vyrance]

come on now people, we all know he meant to eradicate the shissar.  he was tired of putting up with them.  the shissar made a grand exit to survive that wasnt expected.  how many beings on norrath would be able to move an entire temple from norrath to luclin on a whim?i cant see the shissar being eradicated just because the moon exploded.  theyve dealt with worse before.  if any race could survive the destruction of luclin, its definately the shissar.  besides, i think one of zeb's prophecies relate to their return sometime down the road.  "the serpent shall strike back at this world with unexpected ferocity."

[DeBasilisk]

Any Shissar left are lame arssed punks. Cazic definitely did not fail, he wiped them off the face of Kunark, their only real land. The only pathetic survivors (in EQ2 timeline, that we know of,) lived in a pathetic pyramid on a shattered rock in the sky.The Shissar are GONE, and good riddance, until the Devs decide to say otherwise.

[Eriol]

<cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Shissar are GONE, and good riddance, until the Devs decide to say otherwise.</blockquote>THAT I agree with.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah cause your timeline distortion between and EQ and EQ2 magically begins where you want it.. So now it starts before the shissar are supposedly erradicated ...</p><p>where does it hop to next lol </p><p> /sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>It didn't happen in EQ2. Say what you want, but unless the developers state that there is an underwater city where the Shissar are still alive, it NEVER HAPPENED. There's this thing called a Grandfather Clause. What this means is that any changes introduced *AFTER* a certain time period, I.E. EQ2's release date, cannot affect other related issues.</p><p>I'll give you an easy to understand example: If a sports team retires a jersey number, and a current player of the team is wearing that number, then that player will continue to wear that number because he was wearing it before it was retired.</p><p>Just because an EQlive expansion states that something happened before the time split doesn't mean that it applies to EQ2. the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack, the first one to be released after EQ2, states that the dragons have been living under Norrath for thousands of years before getting involved with the mortals. As a result of the events that happened in Dragons of Norrath, those same dragons decided to create the Drakkin race in The Serpentspine Mountains expansion pack in order to ensure thier survival.</p><p>Guess what: It never happened in EQ2. It's even been confirmed that the Drakkin don't exist in EQ2 because they were the direct result of an event that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out.</p><p>The Shissar that live underwater in that Combine City in that EQlive expansion don't exist in EQ2 because it never happened.</p>

[DMIstar]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah cause your timeline distortion between and EQ and EQ2 magically begins where you want it.. So now it starts before the shissar are supposedly erradicated ...</p><p>where does it hop to next lol </p><p> /sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>It didn't happen in EQ2. Say what you want, but unless the developers state that there is an underwater city where the Shissar are still alive, it NEVER HAPPENED. There's this thing called a Grandfather Clause. What this means is that any changes introduced *AFTER* a certain time period, I.E. EQ2's release date, cannot affect other related issues.</p><p>I'll give you an easy to understand example: If a sports team retires a jersey number, and a current player of the team is wearing that number, then that player will continue to wear that number because he was wearing it before it was retired.</p><p>Just because an EQlive expansion states that something happened before the time split doesn't mean that it applies to EQ2. the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack, the first one to be released after EQ2, states that the dragons have been living under Norrath for thousands of years before getting involved with the mortals. As a result of the events that happened in Dragons of Norrath, those same dragons decided to create the Drakkin race in The Serpentspine Mountains expansion pack in order to ensure thier survival.</p><p>Guess what: It never happened in EQ2. It's even been confirmed that the Drakkin don't exist in EQ2 because they were the direct result of an event that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out.</p><p>The Shissar that live underwater in that Combine City in that EQlive expansion don't exist in EQ2 because it never happened.</p></blockquote><p>Ehh Nice try:</p><p>Lets understand this.. EQ Had more lore written on it then was given out customer base.. This was built ofcousre to keep the game ongoing. When EQ2 was introduced They where useing the Lore and history that was done in that time.. All you seem to hope to go by  is that the events in Kunark lore was not realy done and written out and that the Future Expansion was based on totaly new Derived by that Team.</p><p> But you have no clue whether that is true or not. Nor Can you Even begin to try to prove it. I'm Going by That I believe there was more lore written down and scaled out for future use.. Shissar Was meant to be a major race in the game.. They went ahead and introduced a sub model of one in Plane of Fear ... then low and behold they show up Two expansions later.... </p><p>Im more in tune that Shadow of Luclin was pretty much derived at the time, Transporting a temple is quite far fetched. but none the less that is in the story.</p><p> Bottom line you have no clue whats been taken from the orignal lore and whats been added. and since you don't know that you decide to claim ignorance on it, And yet have no clue why lol </p><p> Its like the moon thread, The scientists State there is no third moon.. Well if its hidden from them how whould they know.. Unless you expect that god to fail miserabley to. Lol </p>

[DeBasilisk]

I'm with Cusahorn here.See, just because there's no way to prove that the Shissar aren't alive in EQ2, there's no reason to believe that they are either. Since we all know about the time-split, no one in our Norrath has any reason to believe that there are Shissar around.Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. But until the Devs say that there are Shissar, there's no reason from an in-game perspective to assume that there are.All the being said from an in-game perspective, /ooc I wouldn't doubt their return at all for simple content purposes. Snake people are cool, and business is business. It wouldn't surprise me if the devs brought them back.

[Meirril]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah cause your timeline distortion between and EQ and EQ2 magically begins where you want it.. So now it starts before the shissar are supposedly erradicated ...</p><p>where does it hop to next lol </p><p> /sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>There is no magical line actually. It is explained in EQ2 lore actually. From the moment Zeb (I can never remember his full name) was rescued from the Plane of Time the EQ1 and EQ2 Lore diverge. This is an in-game reasoning for the design decision that was made. Namely, just because something happens in EQ1 does not mean it happens in EQ2. Specifically, any <u>expansion</u> that is released in EQ1 after PoP does not need to be supported in EQ2. The developers here have specific sanction to IGNORE EQ1. This means, they can include or ignore every point you've brought up about Shishar in post PoP expansions, including Veskar which I belive was released as a free add on after PoP. </p><p>FYI: When you release an expansion involving a race that pre-dates the game, you generally need to create lore that involves them that pre-dates the introduction of players. Otherwise it seems rather stupid that Shishar were spontaniously created in a new underwater city specifically so that players could go down there and drown in new and interesting ways while obtaining their phat lewts. Or are you saying that is the only explination that would resolve your intense burning need for authenticity in a living, ever changing, fantasy setting?</p>

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah cause your timeline distortion between and EQ and EQ2 magically begins where you want it.. So now it starts before the shissar are supposedly erradicated ...</p><p>where does it hop to next lol </p><p> /sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>There is no magical line actually. It is explained in EQ2 lore actually. From the moment Zeb (I can never remember his full name) was rescued from the Plane of Time the EQ1 and EQ2 Lore diverge. This is an in-game reasoning for the design decision that was made. Namely, just because something happens in EQ1 does not mean it happens in EQ2. Specifically, any <u>expansion</u> that is released in EQ1 after PoP does not need to be supported in EQ2. The developers here have specific sanction to IGNORE EQ1. This means, they can include or ignore every point you've brought up about Shishar in post PoP expansions, including Veskar which I belive was released as a free add on after PoP. </p><p>FYI: When you release an expansion involving a race that pre-dates the game, you generally need to create lore that involves them that pre-dates the introduction of players. Otherwise it seems rather stupid that Shishar were spontaniously created in a new underwater city specifically so that players could go down there and drown in new and interesting ways while obtaining their phat lewts. Or are you saying that is the only explination that would resolve your intense burning need for authenticity in a living, ever changing, fantasy setting?</p></blockquote>Yup, as has been said, there is no "magical line", it's been quite well defined actually at the end of the PoP expansion. Generally speaking, everything that happened in EQlive after the PoP expansion, didn't happen in EQ2's timeline. The reason for this is that mortals stormed the Plane of Time, Quarm was defeated, Zeb was released (don't worry, I  can't remember how to spell his name either), then Druzzil Ro stepped in and set back the clock and created two separate time-lines. One time line became EQlive which continued on with it's expansions, the other is EQ2's timeline where the gods withdrew their presence, mortals suffered through the Rending and Shattering, and proceeded with it's expansions.Now, there have been exceptions to this, and it isn't really a rule... the way it's been explained is that unless something from before EQlive's release or after "the split" is specifically mentioned, or stated to have taken place, then it isn't part of EQ2's continuity. A good example of this is Fayspires, or Mayong's ascension to godhood, neither would usually be considered as part of EQ2s canon, but they have both been specifically mentioned and are exceptions to the "rule".

[DMIstar]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:Now, there have been exceptions to this, and it isn't really a rule... the way it's been explained is that unless something from before EQlive's release or after "the split" is specifically mentioned, or stated to have taken place, then it isn't part of EQ2's continuity. A good example of this is Fayspires, or Mayong's ascension to godhood, neither would usually be considered as part of EQ2s canon, but they have both been specifically mentioned and are exceptions to the </cite>Now heres the thing, which i do not agree on.. We have "Exceptions" to the rule. Why cause there was never released an index of all the EQ lore written to the game. Hence we don't know if they are takeing Lore from old to produce these New Expansions. We all know first hand that all of the lore derived from EQ old - EQ PoP was not deliberatly Cramed into the game first hand. There was many holes in the story line to be  discovered *Cough* The orignal Greenmist story quest in EQ *Cough*. As well as open unfinshed areas. I disagree on the part where you are implying that any new lore given in new expansions is supposedly derived right on the spot, rather then pulled from old lore that has been kept around for years. The Devs are not going to look at a piece of lore and say "I cant use that because it was never cramed into orignal EQ before PoP, and so people are going to think its exception to the rule !!. I must scrap that and do a total new route" ........ Dont you kinda see the problem here ? lol Theres stuff thats been unsolved in EQ lore for how long now.. Its like the shadowmen topic.. So if EQ gets an expansion out with shadowmen.. We are going to completely assume that its all new lore.. when it prolly isnt, it was probably archived with the rest of the old time lore just to later be use d. So I am not with the fan crowd that If Im not literealy handend a document with signed on it saying its there, regardless how many clues are given, Im not goint to believe it....  Theres talks on Serpents, We now have Chelsith opened up... only way that could happen is if Venril went back ... Obviously he relocked it cause it was clearly not open in EQ. and that was how long after his death ?

[Marialle]

For the spelling challenged, it's Zebuxoruk. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />That aside, if the Shissar make a comeback, I'm re-creating my Iksar SK from EQ1. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gukkor2]

As far as lore is concerned, I tend to apply the opposite approach of most people.  My position is that, unless someting in one or both games directly contradicts or invalidates a given piece of lore in the other game, then that lore applies to both games.  Thus, in my mind, Katta Castrum and its biodomes do (or at least did) exist in EQ2, because 1) Katta Castrum would have been present long before the time split, and 2) nothing in EQ2 directly invalidates the city's existence in that timeline.  I apply this to relations with EQOA lore as well, though a bit less stringently.  I think Fayspires, Moradhim, Highbourne, etc. did exist in the past of both EQ and EQ2, but I don't think that the timeline of events in EQOA necessarily applies to the other two games

[Meirril]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as lore is concerned, I tend to apply the opposite approach of most people.  My position is that, unless someting in one or both games directly contradicts or invalidates a given piece of lore in the other game, then that lore applies to both games.  Thus, in my mind, Katta Castrum and its biodomes do (or at least did) exist in EQ2, because 1) Katta Castrum would have been present long before the time split, and 2) nothing in EQ2 directly invalidates the city's existence in that timeline.  I apply this to relations with EQOA lore as well, though a bit less stringently.  I think Fayspires, Moradhim, Highbourne, etc. did exist in the past of both EQ and EQ2, but I don't think that the timeline of events in EQOA necessarily applies to the other two games</blockquote><p>So, are you planning a Veskar raid anytime soon? After all, Veskar is in EQ1 and Lake of Ill Omen is in EQ2. The dome that became Veskar after it was written into EQ1 is there. Therefore, under your assumptions...</p><p>Nothing in EQ2 says Veskar doesn't exist. There are actually a few clues here and there that point towards Veskar. However, at this time there is no playable Veskar zone in EQ2. Why? Because EQ2's developers didn't feel they needed to include it. This may change in the future, when EQ2 devs decide they want to include it.</p><p>This isn't EQ1, they don't need to support things that happened in that game here. Hopefully there will be NO mention of anything that happened in the GoD expansion or afterward EVER.</p>

[DMIstar]

Veskar Defenetly Exists in the Lore Of EQ2 and EQ.. Veskar was supposed to be a zone opening after the orignal RoK release but realy never happened... Which ended up them scrapping that and redesigning a new veskar that did go live.As for them thinking it doesnt need to be in?.. I Don't think that, I lean more towards theres no developer time to actually create it before launch.. they already had several instances they where doing.. Its like Dalnirs/keasora, The real Warslik Woods... I realy would love to see those places, but I doubt there would ever be time for them to creat it.. But hopefully soon they will finish up kurns and get that opened up.

[DMIstar]

To add...Destinova - *AntoniaBayle-Sadres* There's been a lot of buzz in the lore about Shissar, lately. If they're crafty enough to live in an airless void, is the current Luclin necessarily a death sentence for them? Jindrack - Luclin is not a death sentence at all for them. The Shissar are a very powerful and crafty race, in fact they were one of the very first on Norrath. They've survived a genocide plague, maruading adventurers, and living in a vacuum, however their current status is still an unknown to the inhabitants of Norrath. Jindrack - I wouldn't count them out just yet. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Terrius]

Wow I never imagined this thread would live so long O.o I think I created a monster!!!

[Grimlux]

With all this focus on the Shissar is it safe to assume that Shissar will be included in the next expansion. I suppose only Dion Warwick... or a dev could tell ya. The shissar of the grey were one of the best mobs in my entire EQ1 experience. (except when I was grinding for VT access) then I hated them.

[Terrius]

<p><b>Jindrack -</b> Luclin is not a death sentence at all for them. The Shissar are a very powerful and crafty race, in fact they were one of the very first on Norrath. They've survived a genocide plague, maruading adventurers, and living in a vacuum, however their current status is still an unknown to the inhabitants of Norrath. <b>Jindrack -</b> I wouldn't count them out just yet. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>That makes me a happy panda!!! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[surepaw]

The Shissar knew of the destruction of Luclin.........<img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/RoS2.jpg" alt="" border="0" />Being that they knew, and knowing how intelligent they are, I would think that they made some arrangements to get off Luclin, so I doubt they are gone. I think we will see them again, and soon.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>surepaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Shissar knew of the destruction of Luclin.........<img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/RoS2.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="462" height="335" />Being that they knew, and knowing how intelligent they are, I would think that they made some arrangements to get off Luclin, so I doubt they are gone. I think we will see them again, and soon.</blockquote>Yes, and even though Jindrak says that they're not dead, but not confirmed alive, we can take the factor that they very well could have forgotten about it through day by day activities, considering that the rune itself did not say *WHEN* it would occur.

[DMIstar]

I think we might see them next expansion..  Theres been alot to do with them, so as jindrak says they certainly are not out of the picture. But then again with how the expansion files are comeing up, it could be a stretch but will see.

[Saroc_Luclin]

By the way, it is "Veksar" not "Veskar". And as far as the Lore goes, I tend to take a Quantum view of the Lore. EQLive's post-PoP lore both exists and doesn't exist in EQII's lore tree, until the Dev's look into it and make it explicit. So until we either have an NPC or a book or some other lore tidbit in game say Katta Castrum existed, or say Katta's corpse went somewhere else or whatever, that domed city may or may not have existed in EQII's past. For Lore Discussions, IMO it's fine to tap into EQLive lore a bit to theorize the background of some events that are going on, but they need to recognize that it may or may not have actually happened that way, EQLive's lore often provides just another possible way to explain it. You can't say that events happened a certain way because EQLive said they did, but you ALSO can't say events DIDN'T happen a certain way because EQLive said they did that way. Finally, though the time lines are described as 'splitting' at PoP, IMO there isn't really a split. Both the EQLive and EQII timelines always existed, running in parallel to each other, but sometimes an event happened one way in the EQLive timeline, and it went a slightly different way in the EQII timeline. The PoP 'fork' was probably just one of the biggest zig vs zag events that happened. The two-timelines theory would explain how some events can occur in the past, but not found out until post-PoP, and not occur in the EQII timeline either.

[DMIstar]

<i>You can't say that events happened a certain way because EQLive said they did, but you ALSO can't say events DIDN'T happen a certain way because EQLive said they did that way.</i>I'm On the Side that That EQlive lore is what is the compiled Past lore of EQ2. Theres no evident reasoning to start changeing the entire thing over and createing a new from something already existant... If they where doing so, You would see this in a large scale steming into all sorts of areas... Freeport and Qeynos would be the first, since that was thier major marketing spot on Original Release .. <i></i>I havent touched in GoD and OOW which i Hope I never will But place s Like Veskar and jagged pine where Referred to in game before PoP ever came out hell before veliouse came about as well. and niether places had any direct things to do with the expansion when launched into game.. closest thing you could say is the dock on JP for GoD expansion.<i>Finally, though the time lines are described as 'splitting' at PoP, IMO there isn't really a split. Both the EQLive and EQII timelines always existed, running in parallel to each other, but sometimes an event happened one way in the EQLive timeline, and it went a slightly different way in the EQII timeline. The PoP 'fork' was probably just one of the biggest zig vs zag events that happened. The two-timelines theory would explain how some events can occur in the past, but not found out until post-PoP, and not occur in the EQII timeline either.</i>This is something to many are going to argue about... <i>*edit Changed Veksar To Veskar Just so its kept up and seems to top replies $$</i>

[Saroc_Luclin]

As I said before, it's <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zone.html?zstrat=94" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Veksar</a>

[DMIstar]

Not saying it isn't but apon popular demand I'm saying its veskar

[TheKons]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not saying it isn't but apon popular demand I'm saying its veskar </blockquote>Popular demand? to be honest alot of the posts you do I stop reading because of so many misspellings on lore names. Like calling Lord Nagafen Female. and Kerafyrm, and now Veksar

[DMIstar]

<cite>Lilii@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not saying it isn't but apon popular demand I'm saying its veskar </blockquote>Popular demand? to be honest alot of the posts you do I stop reading because of so many misspellings on lore names. Like calling Lord Nagafen Female. and Kerafyrm, and now Veksar</blockquote>So what I'm supposed to come here say how Illiterate you are ? I mean ... "Lord Nagafen Female" is not the name of the dragonNor a misspelling.. But yet you are falsely claiming as such ... But then again I'm not that desperate on post count..The sleeper is nickname for kerafyrm if you like it our not.. Hence Sleeper's tomb.. I don't think the "Sleeper" Referance goes to a pile of rocks in the zone... Obviously this was kerafryms tomb.. As for misspellings of lore names.. Get used to it, It's done alot Hell Some stuff is shortened due to lore names being hard to spell right off... Lord Bob anyone ? ohh that's a misspelling for Lord Doljonijiarnimorinar.Then again Have you ever wondered why Veksar was referred to as Veskar ? ofcourse not hell research is beyond you. And, No This is not going to be twisted into saying I think the zone name is Veskar .. I believe it was a common Typo... So unless you are going to go on a crusade and try to do nothing but respond to people who misspell these names "Which to me is a bunch of worthless replies" I have no reason take you seriously at all... And thanks for the illiterate post telling me about grammer $$

[Rashaak]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lilii@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not saying it isn't but apon popular demand I'm saying its veskar </blockquote>Popular demand? to be honest alot of the posts you do I stop reading because of so many misspellings on lore names. Like calling Lord Nagafen Female. and Kerafyrm, and now Veksar</blockquote>So what I'm supposed to come here say how Illitera te you are ? I mean ... "Lord Nagafen Female" is not the name of the dragonNor a misspelling..  But yet you are falsely claiming as such ...  But then again I'm not that desperate on post count..The sleeper is nickname for kerafyrm if you like it our not.. Hence Sleeper's tomb.. I don't think the "Sleeper" Referance goes to a pile of rocks in the zone... O bviously this was kerafryms tomb.. As for misspellings of lore names.. Get used to it, It's done alot Hell Some stuff is shortened due to lore names being hard to spell right off... Lord Bob anyone ? ohh that's a misspelling for Lord Doljonijiarnimorinar.Then again Have you ever wondered why Veksar was referred to as Veskar ? ofcourse not hell research is beyond you. And, No This is not going to be twisted into saying I think the zone name is Veskar .. I believe it was a common Typo... So unless you are going to go on a crusade and try to do nothing but respond to people who misspell these names "Which to me is a bunch of worthless replies" I have no reason take you seriously at all... And thanks for the illiterate post telling me about grammer $$ </blockquote><p>Dude...we understand. You don't like to be corrected, but dang! No one has attacked you, just corrected you on the correct spelling of the zone. Get over yourself for half a second will ya! Also, it wasn't just a common typo, you've been mis-spelling it ever since you started posting about it. Spell it the correct way so it doesn't confuse players. </p>

[DMIstar]

Actually I tend to think it is.. I've seen so many misspellings of things on these boards, Which realy is no big deal at all.. Theres No reasoning to sit there and nit pick apart posts.. We all get the general idea anyway.. Its more on the discussion of things. Seriously google Veskar, You will see what you come up with.. Kerafrym Omg the many times that was misspelled its insane... Only thing I'm doing is targeting out the people who can't seem to form a discussion or even bother with the topic.. enough to derail a thread on nickpicking for no apparent reasoning.. Other then they have no clue on the topic

[TheKons]

yeah thats true I don't research, but I love to read about all the research some of you guys do. All I'm asking is that since you do all this research for you to call things by what they are supposed to be called. Thats it, no need to go on a rant jeeze

[Rashaak]

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I tend to think it is.. I've seen so many misspellings of things on these boards, Which realy is no big deal at all.. Theres No reasoning to sit there and nit pick apart posts.. We all get the general idea anyway.. Its more on the discussion of things. Seriously google Veskar, You will see what you come up with.. Kerafrym Omg the many times that was misspelled its insane... Only thing I'm doing is targeting out the people who can't seem to form a discussion or even bother with the topic.. enough to derail a thread on nickpicking for no apparent reasoning.. Other then they have no clue on the topic</blockquote>Actually...your being childish by 'targeting' out people and trying to flame them. This is a location within the game called VeKsar...not Veskar. Grow up...stay on topic, agree you mis-spelled it and leave it at that. No one is trying to be 'grammer police' here, just correcting the name of the location you keep mis-typing so there is no confusion of the location you are speaking of.

[RaphaNissi]

Spelling places and characters correctly gives some credence to one's post because it helps people think the poster might actually know what they knowledgeable on the topic they are posting about.  Be it right or wrong, many people (including myself) tend to start skimming over posters who claim to have all this knowledge but can't even spell the name correctly.  Ok, names like Ullkorruuk are an exception because they are just darn hard to remember which letters are doubled and which ones aren't <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  And yes, gender tends to be important as well when trying to persuade others of one's knowledge.  Calling LORD Nagafen a "she" doesn't make it sound like a poster really knows what they are talking about.  In other words, if someone wants to really be taken seriously on these (or any) boards, then do your best to gets facts straight including simple things like names.  Ok, now what was this whole thread on again? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[DMIstar]

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I tend to think it is.. I've seen so many misspellings of things on these boards, Which realy is no big deal at all.. Theres No reasoning to sit there and nit pick apart posts.. We all get the general idea anyway.. Its more on the discussion of things. Seriously google Veskar, You will see what you come up with.. Kerafrym Omg the many times that was misspelled its insane... Only thing I'm doing is targeting out the people who can't seem to form a discussion or even bother with the topic.. enough to derail a thread on nickpicking for no apparent reasoning.. Other then they have no clue on the topic</blockquote>Actually...your being childish by 'targeting' out people and trying to flame them. This is a location within the game called VeKsar...not Veskar. Grow up...stay on topic, agree you mis-spelled it and leave it at that. No one is trying to be 'grammer police' here, just correcting the name of the location you keep mis-typing so there is no confusion of the location you are speaking of.</blockquote><i>Spelling places and characters correctly gives some credence to one's post because it helps people think the poster might actually know what they knowledgeable on the topic they are posting about. Be it right or wrong, many people (including myself) tend to start skimming over posters who claim to have all this knowledge but can't even spell the name correctly. Ok, names like Ullkorruuk are an exception because they are just darn hard to remember which letters are doubled and which ones aren't And yes, gender tends to be important as well when trying to persuade others of one's knowledge. Calling LORD Nagafen a "she" doesn't make it sound like a poster really knows what they are talking about. In other words, if someone wants to really be taken seriously on these (or any) boards, then do your best to gets facts straight including simple things like names. Ok, now what was this whole thread on again?</i>Personally Didn't want to prolong this, there was a another point to make, but its a null point to me at this time, and not worth dragging on... <i></i>But as for The Credance of haveing everything needing to spelled complety to your view is complete BS and childish to point out, IT means you lack the ability to even bother to follow the discussion and just stare and point and meaningless BS.. <i></i>What your saying is the first post on here that said "Veskar" on it was under a different person, not even mine.. But I should of sat there and been the idiot to throw that out ? Hell no.. You people need to get a life other then nit picking junk... Talk about being childish.. Why don't you go farther and pick out all those who say "Taht" instead of  That... <i></i>I think its pretty sad realy.<i></i>-Anyhow I'm done with this derail of the topic, and not supporting the thread to get locked over it.. You can if you want, but to me its pointless... As always will ignore the ones that have to fall back on grammer replies because they have no clue on discussion at hand...