Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem [Archive]

Elephanton

11-07-2007, 06:56 PM

Thread title should read:"Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem" While I am wholeheartedly for this change, personally I will miss leveling alts with locked XP.There are so many nice quest at T2-T3 I loved to do.So, here's my idea how to both permit combat XP locking, and address "locked twinks pwning noobs in CL/Ant" issue. Very simple:If you are locked, you cannot engage enemy in PVP (but you can fight back once they engage you).This is a trade off for being locked.So in order to hunt, you will have to unlock. But hunting with combat XP enabled will move you to 30 in a matter of days, thus no more gank squads of people locked at 14. You kill a few people - ding - you are 15 already.On the other hand, if you want to just be twinking your char beyond your wildest dreams - do all possible quests, cap your AA - fine, but you will not be able to attack people who might not be doing same thing as you.May be they should also add XP lock timeout (i.e. you cannot change combat XP state more than once in 1 hour), but I am not really sure if this is even needed.BTW this proposal also solves the problem with after-ROK newbies, who will never be able to get same amount of AA at level 30 (which will be new lock level I suppose) with the currently planned change as those people who are grinding they chars to 30 doing quests with locked XP right now, while it is still possible. Those people will be gods now (and will probably choose to stay locked at 30 forever abusing the unfair advantage they have). With the proposed change though, everyone can still get to level 30 with capped AA, if they want that.EDITED to include even better idea!I've been reading this and came out with even better option.PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.Same, everyone gets a choice:1. Either you gank people, and level past T2 really fast, coming to 30 with no AAs.2. Or you forget about PVPing and do quests to get maximum AA until you hit 30.I like this even better, because it is easier to implement and has no limitations connected with it (unability to attack players in locked state, like with my initial suggestion). And it makes better sense overall (how can you not be getting XP for killing your foes)?Ideally, this rule should span whole level range until 80, this will resolve level locking issue once and for all... without removing level locking itself!

Verith

11-07-2007, 07:15 PM

I like this idea, cant think of a thing to change or help it at all.

fxt

11-07-2007, 08:18 PM

This is a good change. I for one think it will drastically reduce gank squads in the lower levels because they will be too busy questing for AA since they have to level. This window gives time for the new player to learn their toon before they run into a x2 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

HerbertWalker

11-07-2007, 09:07 PM

If I just started playing EQ2 right after your proposed change went live, and then read about how the server used to be, I would be very disappointed that I did not get a chance to partake in the fun of suiting up an uber character to dominate the lands.I prefer a game that has tons of freedom to distinguish my character from the masses. Just my opinion.

Elephanton

11-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Wow not sure what happened with the title, it should read"Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem"I would appreciate if a moderator could fix it, because just editing the first post won't change the title.

zaltar

11-07-2007, 11:52 PM

Not a bad idea however I must laugh once again at the many protests regarding the idea of not beingable to lock.level lockers should just admit that the real reason they don`t want to lose that option is because they willout level the gear that they have spent tons of plat on and in order to remain competitive they will have tore equip for each tier making the entire concept of having a massive gear advantage both expensive and difficult.Why do it all over again if you can avoid it ?By locking they can pour all of their resources into that particular tier , have the best of everything and dominatethe pvp in those levels rather than be forced into having to spend more plat every 10 levels or so.Thats pretty much their entire plan from the start , put everything into a low level character , make it as strong as possiblelock it , and kill everyone that`s passing through that tier trying to level up.They get their fame , title , whatever , pvp others who are doing the same thing and never have any intention of levelingany further , for them this is the entire game , no worries about having to work to upgrade for new levels.This is why people might be better off planning for end game pvp and saving thier resources for that purpose instead oflocking in whatever tier in order to avoid the cost associated with trying to dominate each tier.IMHO I don`t believe the pvp model was originally designed for low level exploitation of the pve locking feature primarilybecause in many 50 + areas there are no level restrictions on pvp, that should be when consideration of pouring everything into the best gear on the market begins.As long as locking is an option people will continue to remain in whatever tier they decide to pvp in once they have thebest equipment.If they restrict the option to lock until 30 , people will just change their strategy to equip for that tier , lock and dominatepvp in those levels , it won`t change anything.It`s all just going to shift to that tier .Since locking has it`s benefits for content purposes there exists a clear dilemma over whether or not it should be allowedon a pvp enabled server or not.Maybe putting a time limit in number of days in which locking is allowed might be a solution , that way people could still gainthe advantages of locking for content but not be allowed to stay locked in that tier indefinitely.

Elephanton

11-08-2007, 07:20 AM

Good stuff...I've been reading this and came out with even better option.Here it comes:PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.Same, everyone gets a choice:1. Either you gank people, and level past T2 really fast, coming to 30 with no AAs.2. Or you forget about PVPing and do quests to get maximum AA until you hit 30.I like this even better, because it is easier to implement and has no limitations connected with it (unability to attack players in locked state, like with my initial suggestion). And it makes better sense overall (how can you not be getting XP for killing your foes)?Ideally, this rule should span whole level range until 80, this will resolve level locking issue once and for all... without removing level locking itself!

Spyderbite

11-08-2007, 09:06 AM

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.</blockquote>I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.

max.power

11-08-2007, 10:38 AM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.</blockquote>I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.</blockquote>I think it's already that way. The problem is that this blue solo gets a full fame hit, regardless if he got killed by 2, 3 or 6 people (within fame range). The fame should be divided by group members before it's removed from the solo and then (once more) be divided between them.

Elephanton

11-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Crimson Lord

11-08-2007, 09:20 PM

I for one am totally against the concept of you have to go to 30. I think too many people whine in this game if you new players are tired of being ganked by people then go to pve. So now i get to have soe dictate how i play the game now by forcing me to go to 30. So whats to stop me from locking at 30 and ganking people as they come up. Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill most of the time? I mean its bad enough commonlands, antonica, are as barren as they are now. lets just take 1-29 levels completely out of the equation hell why not have commandlands, and antonica just fall into the ocean or something you think their barren now force people to have to go to 30. Never thought i be playing a game where I can not play the game how I WANT to play it. I enjoy the quests and action in the lower tiers not too many spells from either side for their appropriate classes its a challenge tbh. Now I know someone is gonna say well you must be a plat farmer you must have over 100 plat to completely twink your low level toon, well your wrong. Maybe if you took the time to actually develop your toon instead of rushing to get up in levels you'd find that pvp gear is not a plat at that level hell its under 3g. All it takes is some pvp you want to roll solo your gonna get ganked it has happened to me numerous occasions sure it pisses me off but its a fact of a PVP server. If players are so worried about being ganked in t2 then like I said before go to a pve server.

Origin

11-12-2007, 03:20 AM

<cite>Crimson Lord wrote:</cite><blockquote>I for one am totally against the concept of you have to go to 30. I think too many people whine in this game if you new players are tired of being ganked by people then go to pve. So now i get to have soe dictate how i play the game now by forcing me to go to 30. So whats to stop me from locking at 30 and ganking people as they come up. Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [I cannot control my vocabulary] near impossible to kill most of the time? I mean its bad enough commonlands, antonica, are as barren as they are now. lets just take 1-29 levels completely out of the equation hell why not have commandlands, and antonica just fall into the ocean or something you think their barren now force people to have to go to 30. Never thought i be playing a game where I can not play the game how I WANT to play it. I enjoy the quests and action in the lower tiers not too many spells from either side for their appropriate classes its a challenge tbh. Now I know someone is gonna say well you must be a plat farmer you must have over 100 plat to completely twink your low level toon, well your wrong. Maybe if you took the time to actually develop your toon instead of rushing to get up in levels you'd find that pvp gear is not a plat at that level hell its under 3g. All it takes is some pvp you want to roll solo your gonna get ganked it has happened to me numerous occasions sure it pisses me off but its a fact of a PVP server. If players are so worried about being ganked in t2 then like I said before go to a pve server.</blockquote>Well, the way it works now is that new players have to have the way they play the game dictated by a bunch of jerk twinkers who grief constantly. I shouldn't have to go play on a PvE server just to be able to enjoy the game. PvP is not getting a group of twinks together to repeatedly kill new players who are still trying to learn the game. I enjoy PvP. I've enjoyed PvP for more than 15 years. What I do not enjoy is getting killed by the same people over and over again with absolutely NO WAY of defending myself. If you think that's PvP then you don't know what PvP is. It also doesn't matter if I roll solo or with a group, because a group of twinks is going to demolish a normal group every time. There is no competition in that, no honor, and no fun for anyone except the twinks.

Tae

11-12-2007, 03:43 AM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. </blockquote>I just killed a Q spying with a level 5 freep in Kingdom of the Sky and oh no I'm a champion again. I just attacked a full group of greens who are attacking someone I know and oh dear I am a destroyer what is this. This system would be dumb and would massively penalise the people who are at the level cap, since there's no reds or oranges for us. And yes the reason I want level locking removed is it's just impossible for a legitimate lower level to compete. Being constantly killed by people you cannot hurt isn't fun. It's frustrating.

Wytie

11-12-2007, 12:54 PM

I just wanta say im all for making pvp give xp, just dont change anything else.I like AA and i like choices, to lock and unlock depending on the level of you friends. Pvp is alot better when your the same level as your groups mates.Leave level locking as it is just add xp to pvp kills and lower faction requirements a tad and we will be good.You have to lock in order to even think about getting aa and faction, theres just no way around it period.

XeroXs84

11-12-2007, 01:20 PM

Still wondering where that rumor came from.. Its not like that on beta or on test (as test pvp is down since ages)...so?

Wytie

11-12-2007, 01:22 PM

<cite>Fizzie@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still wondering where that rumor came from.. Its not like that on beta or on test (as test pvp is down since ages)...so?</blockquote>are there any pvp changes that you know of?

Bogenbroom123

11-12-2007, 07:44 PM

This has always been what I view as SOE's problem. They base 100% of their changes on the whining complaints of people in the forums. If SOE puts level locking in the game, and people are used to it and enjoy it, it should stay. People should be allowed to play the game however they want to play it, and not be "forced" to play it based on how other people feel they should play it. Just because a minority of people don't like it when others level lock, it doesn't mean that it should be removed from the game. I currently have locked toons in each tier. I like to pvp at each tier 10-19, 20-29, etc., up to 70. Not only is it fun to have the variety, but, when one tier is slow, I change to another, and can usually find pvp. PVP is the only reason I continue to play this game. I think this change would be as bad for pvp as the change they made with level restrictions in the various zones, i.e. where CL and Ant used to thrive with pvp, now we see only rare sightings of small groups to fight. I miss old Rallos Zek EQ1 days. It was a pvp server for pvpers and not people who wanted to change how everyone else enjoyed the game. When I see people posting about removing level locks and other things that other people actually enjoy, then I wonder how many little hitlers are running around the world of norrath and how often SOE is supporting that mentality.

Origin

11-12-2007, 08:04 PM

How do you know what SOE bases their changes on? Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice. If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem. By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. I just spent $40 to re-download the game, coming back after I had heard PvP was now implemented in the game. I've spent the last 3 days dying over and over again to groups of level-locked twinks, no matter where I go. Any place they know will have defenseless lowbs, they will be there in groups or by themselves, one or two shotting them. I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST. Most of the time I get killed enroute. I'm completely broke... why? I die too much to be able to buy any gear. Bank it? That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. You think this is fun? You think people are out of line for not enjoying this? The new expac is coming out tomorrow, and I don't even know if I want to drop more money into SOE's pockets, knowing it's just going to be more of the same. I've been pvping in many different games for more than 15 years, and I've never felt like quitting a new game because I wasn't able to make any progress due to griefers, but that's how I feel, right now. As long as the game supports and enables groups of players who have spent months building killers to go out and harvest noobs, it will be weak. I am in favor of level-locking, but also of giving XP for PvP... the game shouldn't be ruined for everyone just because some people think it's fun to spend months of preparation to be able to kill the defenseless.

convict

11-12-2007, 08:22 PM

Bogenbroom123

11-12-2007, 08:58 PM

[Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice. If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem. By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. ]All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing." I know for a fact that lowbie toons aren't being pk'd 100% of the time they are getting exp. Also, most people who pvp in any tier pk someone, then move on. The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people. This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums. They get pk'd once by someone, revive, and head out, and someone else kills them. They consider that "griefing," even though it isn't. I am not saying that some people who pvp don't act like jerks when pvping, but to me and everyone I've ever pvp'd with, griefing is just a waste of time. We make our kills, and move on. Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing. I got jacked when my toons were low level. I still get killed often. Does it bother me? Nope. Why not? Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time. When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it. It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills. If you're lazy, I guess it is. If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say. [I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST. Most of the time I get killed enroute. I'm completely broke... why? I die too much to be able to buy any gear. Bank it? That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. ] I think that's complete bs. I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides. Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that. I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.

Origin

11-12-2007, 09:40 PM

It's a shame you feel you need to make your point with ad hom attacks. But I will address what you said nonetheless.[All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing."]Continuing to whine? I made a single post about level-locking. When I came to look at thread again, I saw what someone had said, and decided to respond. I don't really think that qualifies as continuing to whine.[The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people. This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums.]I'm not sure what's typical or not, as I don't spend much time in the forums. However, I don't apply the term, "griefing," to getting ganked by different groups of people. I apply the term, "griefing," to the same individuals or groups repeatedly killing you, hanging out by your respawn point, and then killing you again, and again, and again. I apply the term, "griefing," to the people who hunt noobie levelling spots and kill people who cannot defend themselves.[Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing. I got jacked when my toons were low level. I still get killed often. Does it bother me? Nope. Why not? Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time. When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it. It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills. If you're lazy, I guess it is. If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. ]I've asked for nothing for free, and I haven't cried or whined. Are you so bothered by a different opinion on an opinion discussion forum that you must lash at people who don't think like you? When did you make your first toon on Nag? It matters, because the longer a server exists, the greater chance that the number of level-locked twinks will increase. Meaning, the server when you started could be a very different animal than it is now.[Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say.]I didn't say that EVERY zone with lowbs was under attack 100% of the time, because I haven't been to every zone. I've spent all my 10+ time in the Commonlands and in DLW.[I think that's complete bs. I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides. Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that. I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.]Factual... Okay. I have 2 characters. My Necromancer has 11 hours of play time. He is level 14. Now, subtract from the 11 hours, the time it took me to hit level 10, including all the running around trying to figure out my class and zone. I'll help you out.... It took me about 4 or 5 hours to get from level 10 to level 14. In that time I amassed 19 deaths and no kills. Almost all of them were from two different groups of the same people. Much of that 4 or 5 hours was spent sitting with immunity at the fair, trying to wait for it to clear up enough for me to run out.My Shadowknight is level 17. I took him to DLW from the Ruins at level 12 and spent much of a day trying to XP and Quest, with frequent stops back to Scale Yard to check at the broker. So, in 5 levels, he died 20 times, from the same people almost every time. In fact, the reason I stopped playing him and started my necromancer was because I couldn't leave a safe area without dying. So, all told, on both of my characters, I've died 39 times in about 10 hours of game play, though as I said, much of that time was spent re-buffing, waiting in immunity for the all clear, zoning back and forth for extended immunity, etc. Anyway... I'm not whining about it. This is a forum, and I felt I needed to say my piece about level-locking, or rather the excuses that gankers make as to why they need it... Feel free to respond with more vitriol, though... it proves your point so well.Edit: By the way... I've played and PvP'd in Q2WF, CS, D2, EQ, Shadowbane, AO, L2, RYL, DAOC, WoW, EVE, SWG, Runescape(lol), as well as games going as far back as 1200bd modems on 286SX computers, using nothing but text, and this is the FIRST time I've made a complaint about being griefed, so you can take that, "whiny" BS and shove it up thine [Removed for Content].

ladyvengeance

11-12-2007, 10:52 PM

<cite>Bogenbroom123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice. If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem. By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. ]All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing." I know for a fact that lowbie toons aren't being pk'd 100% of the time they are getting exp. Also, most people who pvp in any tier pk someone, then move on. The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people. This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums. They get pk'd once by someone, revive, and head out, and someone else kills them. They consider that "griefing," even though it isn't. I am not saying that some people who pvp don't act like jerks when pvping, but to me and everyone I've ever pvp'd with, griefing is just a waste of time. We make our kills, and move on. Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing. I got jacked when my toons were low level. I still get killed often. Does it bother me? Nope. Why not? Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time. When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it. It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills. If you're lazy, I guess it is. If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say. [I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST. Most of the time I get killed enroute. I'm completely broke... why? I die too much to be able to buy any gear. Bank it? That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. ] I think that's complete bs. I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides. Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that. I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.</blockquote>Very well said. I also agree with you on your earlier point about locking toons in each tier so you can enjoy the game more fully. If level locking was removed and I had 7 level 80 characters......well, that just seems boring as hell. Taking the same 7 character through the same zones fighting the same people. By locking toons in different levels I not only get to see more of the game, but I get to group with different people and fight different people. I too, started with nothing. I got ganked a lot. I didn't cry about it or quit. I learned to play and got better. Getting ganked just gave me the motivation to get better. If you're getting ganked a lot, then log out and come back later or move to a different zone -- there are tons of so-called "noob" zones around Norrath for you to do quests in. Also, if you're getting one-shotted then you need some better gear. Get into a guild and have them help you with that. Guys, it's really not that difficult. It will take some time; you won't learn to play this overnight.

zaltar

11-13-2007, 02:53 AM

<cite>Origin wrote:</cite><blockquote>How do you know what SOE bases their changes on? Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice. If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem. By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. I just spent $40 to re-download the game, coming back after I had heard PvP was now implemented in the game. I've spent the last 3 days dying over and over again to groups of level-locked twinks, no matter where I go. Any place they know will have defenseless lowbs, they will be there in groups or by themselves, one or two shotting them. I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST. Most of the time I get killed enroute. I'm completely broke... why? I die too much to be able to buy any gear. Bank it? That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. You think this is fun? You think people are out of line for not enjoying this? The new expac is coming out tomorrow, and I don't even know if I want to drop more money into SOE's pockets, knowing it's just going to be more of the same. I've been pvping in many different games for more than 15 years, and I've never felt like quitting a new game because I wasn't able to make any progress due to griefers, but that's how I feel, right now. As long as the game supports and enables groups of players who have spent months building killers to go out and harvest noobs, it will be weak. I am in favor of level-locking, but also of giving XP for PvP... the game shouldn't be ruined for everyone just because some people think it's fun to spend months of preparation to be able to kill the defenseless. </blockquote> On my high level char I was killed more than 500 times within 6 weeks or so by gangs when I was caught solo anywhere in the game. On another more recent alt . I was killed within 10 minutes of dinging level 10 , in fact I was standing there examining my upgrades from my new level when I got wacked . In a balanced fight I would be concerned about performance but when people group against a solo it`s no mystery that it requires 0 skill , they believe according to the system that they have achieved something , I know they have achieved nothing . Fortunately , due to the fact that the pvp in this game has a questionable reputation based on commentary that exists on other boards out there , I was prepared before I began playing here for what goes on as it has been described in exact detail by long time players who got tired of wasting their time and money on an unsupervised gank fest mmorpg populated by groups of kids who believe their engaging in hard core pvp because Sony has handed them a license to grief . Just to be clear , it won`t change in higher tiers. You will still have the same mentality of players camping spawns , quest areas etc. in every tier all the way up. I continue to play this game because the majority of the good pvp games Iv`e played are to much of a grindfest and are limited on content. This game IMHO is very good on content compared to others and it`s easy exp.

KarmaPimp

11-13-2007, 12:10 PM

Anyone who believes Sony is stupid enough to make a move like this should be playing WoW instead. If you don't like getting ganked by Tweaks then play on a PVE server or make a toon on the PVP practice server (Vox) until you learn how to PVP. Or maybe try out a non-RPG where all toons are identical. Putting everyone on an even keel completely defeats the purpose of playing an RPG in the first place. If you people thought through how many problems doing away with locking would cause and how terrible it would be for the game you would call yourself crazy for wanting to do away with it. There is a 0% chance of this happening. If you want to help out people new to the game the only way to do that would be to lower the PVP ranges again. Maybe even taking PVP out of areas like The Peat Bog, Oakmyst, Forest Ruins, The Caves, Graveyard, Sunken City and The Sprawl would be a great idea. Then lower the PVP range in CL and Ant to 2 and it would help protect newbs from getting ganked and discourage others from low level ganking without destroying the game.

zorros

11-13-2007, 12:14 PM

<cite>KarmaPimp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anyone who believes Sony is stupid enough to make a move like this should be playing WoW instead. If you don't like getting ganked by Tweaks then play on a PVE server or make a toon on the PVP practice server (Vox) until you learn how to PVP. Or maybe try out a non-RPG where all toons are identical. Putting everyone on an even keel completely defeats the purpose of playing an RPG in the first place. If you people thought through how many problems doing away with locking would cause and how terrible it would be for the game you would call yourself crazy for wanting to do away with it. There is a 0% chance of this happening. If you want to help out people new to the game the only way to do that would be to lower the PVP ranges again. Maybe even taking PVP out of areas like The Peat Bog, Oakmyst, Forest Ruins, The Caves, Graveyard, Sunken City and The Sprawl would be a great idea. Then lower the PVP range in CL and Ant to 2 and it would help protect newbs from getting ganked and discourage others from low level ganking without destroying the game. </blockquote>Please explain the problems it would cause.

Outkasted2006

11-13-2007, 12:30 PM

Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA. No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period. 1.) What it promotes it bad enough. 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA. Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.

Ridyen

11-13-2007, 12:32 PM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.</blockquote>I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.</blockquote>Note his first sentence: "PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state." I see nothing in this statement that suggests that you would not get combat XP from killing greys. Unless they are exile you can't hit greys in the first place. There may however be some issues with how to handle players getting attacked by a group of greys. I'm not sure the solo player should be penalized for fighting back and perhaps taking a couple of the greys with him. Perhaps the rule would only apply to those initiating the attack. How about preventing you from initiating a PVP attack with combat XP turn off? If you are attacked and win you get the faction but no XP if you have your combat XP turned off. If you join a group the whole group must have combat XP on or off to prevent groups from exploiting it.

Valdar

11-13-2007, 01:10 PM

<cite>Crimson Lord wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [I cannot control my vocabulary] near impossible to kill most of the time?</blockquote>So you admit that you suck at this game and can't compete in T7 so you want to gank players leveling up with your locked toon?Thank you for clarifying what you want from this game!

Ridyen

11-13-2007, 01:22 PM

<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA. No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period. 1.) What it promotes it bad enough. 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA. Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.</blockquote>First of all let me state that I (As do a lot of us) have a level 70 that's pretty much mastered out and has some decent (Fabled) KOS gear and a level locked 43 thats pretty much mastered out but whose gear is ok but not the best. I've played both sides of this issue. I stopped playing my level 70 because I found that getting constantly ganked by groups waiting at cloud landing sites in KOS was simply no fun. Gear and AA don't mean a thing when you are constanly jumped by gank groups or raiding guilds. Like I said my lvl 70 has pretty good gear but the best gear can only be obtained by raiding, raiding and more raiding. Some of us just don't like raiding 6 days a week so we can have a50/50 chance of winning a solo pvp fight on the 7th day.For the past year I have had more fun with my locked level 43 than I ever had just level grinding to get to 70. Yes I killed anything I could for faction but I certainly didn't go out of my way to hunt them. More often that not it is the group of grey destroyers trying to kill me (and they do). If the AA is your issue then I would advocate eliminateing all AA until lvl 70. Give it as a reward to those who rushed up to level 70 and have nothing left to do besides raid or wait at for a lvl 60 to pounce on. Personally I am enjoing the questing and the PVP that comes with it. As for buying/selling of masters at t2 I'm not sure of your issue there. Due to level lockers there are a ton of masters on the market and many are dirt cheap - only 15-20 gold. My level 70 never had masters in the lower tiers because they were so expensive and I knew that I would simply be growing out of them in 10 levels. Let's talk the price of some masters in the higher tiers. As I said above my lvl 70 is "pretty much mastered" but not entirely. Folks wanting 50-100pp for lvl 60-70 masters is much more insane.

Outkasted2006

11-13-2007, 05:42 PM

<cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA. No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period. 1.) What it promotes it bad enough. 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA. Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.</blockquote>First of all let me state that I (As do a lot of us) have a level 70 that's pretty much mastered out and has some decent (Fabled) KOS gear and a level locked 43 thats pretty much mastered out but whose gear is ok but not the best. I've played both sides of this issue. I stopped playing my level 70 because I found that getting constantly ganked by groups waiting at cloud landing sites in KOS was simply no fun. Gear and AA don't mean a thing when you are constanly jumped by gank groups or raiding guilds. Like I said my lvl 70 has pretty good gear but the best gear can only be obtained by raiding, raiding and more raiding. Some of us just don't like raiding 6 days a week so we can have a50/50 chance of winning a solo pvp fight on the 7th day.For the past year I have had more fun with my locked level 43 than I ever had just level grinding to get to 70. Yes I killed anything I could for faction but I certainly didn't go out of my way to hunt them. More often that not it is the group of grey destroyers trying to kill me (and they do). If the AA is your issue then I would advocate eliminateing all AA until lvl 70. Give it as a reward to those who rushed up to level 70 and have nothing left to do besides raid or wait at for a lvl 60 to pounce on. Personally I am enjoing the questing and the PVP that comes with it. As for buying/selling of masters at t2 I'm not sure of your issue there. Due to level lockers there are a ton of masters on the market and many are dirt cheap - only 15-20 gold. My level 70 never had masters in the lower tiers because they were so expensive and I knew that I would simply be growing out of them in 10 levels. Let's talk the price of some masters in the higher tiers. As I said above my lvl 70 is "pretty much mastered" but not entirely. Folks wanting 50-100pp for lvl 60-70 masters is much more insane. </blockquote> It's not about raiding, it's about making the game a lot more even. Ill get back to all the pvp stuff in a sec, but as far as those masters? yeah, thats what my guardian paid till T4 now they are all a 2-5 plat. My buddies warden though? from lvl 10 up masters have been expensive. Yes , there has been like 3 lvls where his masters were relatively cheap. but outside of that. Nada, that's the the deal. And I've seen the same case with other classes. Certain classes are cheaper then others for the most part.The reply to your AA response , Dude, you enjoy questing? That's great and you should get AA for it, but you shouldnt get the pvp AA. Not to mention the childish arguement of "well if I can't get AS MUCH of it as I would like now, then I don't want it at all" arguement is just plain stupid. No , AA should remain as is, minus the fact if you turn off your XP you do NOT get AA for combat XP simple as that. NNow the T7 masters that have and go for that price, dude, I have sold a ton of those. And at the time they were worth it, There were NO , I mean ZERO, upgrades to these spells. And until, RoK comes out you can't upgrade them. And some of them still don't HAVE a upgrade. Having your spells mastered is a distinct advantage in raiding, and YES in PVP. You know their is raid gear in every tier, why not take away the lvl locking crap, have more T7 (now T<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />and keep the flow of the game going, and that way the game is in a nice ordered progression unlike it is right now.

Origin

11-13-2007, 10:15 PM

<cite>KarmaPimp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anyone who believes Sony is stupid enough to make a move like this should be playing WoW instead. If you don't like getting ganked by Tweaks then play on a PVE server or make a toon on the PVP practice server (Vox) until you learn how to PVP. Or maybe try out a non-RPG where all toons are identical. Putting everyone on an even keel completely defeats the purpose of playing an RPG in the first place. If you people thought through how many problems doing away with locking would cause and how terrible it would be for the game you would call yourself crazy for wanting to do away with it. There is a 0% chance of this happening. If you want to help out people new to the game the only way to do that would be to lower the PVP ranges again. Maybe even taking PVP out of areas like The Peat Bog, Oakmyst, Forest Ruins, The Caves, Graveyard, Sunken City and The Sprawl would be a great idea. Then lower the PVP range in CL and Ant to 2 and it would help protect newbs from getting ganked and discourage others from low level ganking without destroying the game. </blockquote>First of all, not everyone believes that PvP means spending months to build a toon that you will use to kill someone who just started the playing 2 days ago. Just because someone doesn't want to be killed by the same groups of twinks 40 times in half a day, doesn't mean they should play on a server where they never get to engage in PvP.Secondly, what good would making a toon on a PvP practice server do until you learn how to PvP do? It doesn't matter how good you are at PvP, if you are still wearing noob gear, have 2 AAs, and are facing a group of 4 or 5 twinks with maxed aa and 50p worth of gear. Just like being able to kill a noob while wearing 50p of gear and having maxed AAs and 4 of your buddies with you doesn't mean you've learned how to PvP. It just means you've learned that if you spend enough time and money on your character, and have plenty of friends with you, you don't need to learn how to pvp to get a title.

ladyvengeance

11-13-2007, 10:24 PM

Well it doesn't really matter now does it? ROK has come out and we can still lock. Guess those rumors were false. Glad I don't have to quit now.

Origin

11-13-2007, 10:31 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well it doesn't really matter now does it? ROK has come out and we can still lock. Guess those rumors were false. Glad I don't have to quit now. </blockquote>Ah, so if Sony had made it so you couldn't run around and kill noobs you would have quit?

Taharn

11-13-2007, 10:46 PM

I'll be sad to say goodbye to this rumour. It was so much making my locked guildies squirm at the thought of it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ladyvengeance

11-13-2007, 10:50 PM

<cite>Origin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well it doesn't really matter now does it? ROK has come out and we can still lock. Guess those rumors were false. Glad I don't have to quit now. </blockquote>Ah, so if Sony had made it so you couldn't run around and kill noobs you would have quit? </blockquote>Obviously you haven't been paying attention to my posts. I don't kill noobs. I have locked toons in several different tiers so I can enjoy more of the game.

convict

11-13-2007, 11:04 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Origin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well it doesn't really matter now does it? ROK has come out and we can still lock. Guess those rumors were false. Glad I don't have to quit now. </blockquote>Ah, so if Sony had made it so you couldn't run around and kill noobs you would have quit? </blockquote>Obviously you haven't been paying attention to my posts. I don't kill noobs. I have locked toons in several different tiers so I can enjoy more of the game.</blockquote>You cant enjoy the game without locking? Im not locked on any of my toons, and I have plenty of aa and enjoy the game just the same. So why do we continue to hear, enjoy the game and content? It's not that, why cant people come out and say what it really is? You want to be as powerful as you can,to take out full groups solo (wardens)or at le ast 3 or 4 people before you die, thats why you lock.

ladyvengeance

11-14-2007, 12:00 AM

^Wrong again. Sorry, but I don't see how having 7 level 70s can be fun. You're playing the same zones, fighting the same people, with the same groups. When I have toons locked in each tier I can enjoy every zone with different people. And if I can't find pvp in a certain tier, then I can just log an alt and there's usually someone to fight in another tier. I am so happy that these rumors were false and we can play the game the way we want.

Outkasted2006

11-14-2007, 12:07 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>^Wrong again. Sorry, but I don't see how having 7 level 70s can be fun. You're playing the same zones, fighting the same people, with the same groups. When I have toons locked in each tier I can enjoy every zone with different people. And if I can't find pvp in a certain tier, then I can just log an alt and there's usually someone to fight in another tier. I am so happy that these rumors were false and we can play the game the way we want. </blockquote>In all you just said , all the posts I read of yours, you have done nothing but admit, your toons are twinks and enjoy killing the noobs or people who didnt spend months in the same tier(whichever character your on). Giving you a tremendous advantage over MOST.

ladyvengeance

11-14-2007, 12:17 AM

<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>^Wrong again. Sorry, but I don't see how having 7 level 70s can be fun. You're playing the same zones, fighting the same people, with the same groups. When I have toons locked in each tier I can enjoy every zone with different people. And if I can't find pvp in a certain tier, then I can just log an alt and there's usually someone to fight in another tier. I am so happy that these rumors were false and we can play the game the way we want. </blockquote>In all you just said , all the posts I read of yours, you have done nothing but admit, your toons are twinks and enjoy killing the noobs or people who didnt spend months in the same tier(whichever character your on). Giving you a tremendous advantage over MOST.</blockquote>Yes, many of my toons are twinks. I worked my [Removed for Content] off to get them that way. I started from nothing and I slowly made money and was able to twink out my characters over several tiers. What is wrong with that? It's mainly so I can survive out in zones where gank squads of slayers try and kill me when I'm camping mobs or doing a quest. As for killing noobs, show me a post where I've admitted to killing noobs. If a noob attacks me first, then yes, I have no problem killing him. But I don't go out of my way searching for new players to grief over and over again.

Origin

11-14-2007, 12:39 AM

Well, assuming what you say is true, and you twink to combat the gank squads, you're still ignoring the fact that you only need to twink in order to compete with them because they are twinked. However, twinking isn't really the issue so much as the level locking specifically. I'm fine with being able to afford your little toons good gear. It's the large AA pool that really sets them apart. Remove AA for level locking and those gank squads would be on the same footing as you.

Gaeus

11-14-2007, 02:37 AM

I find it interesting how you people have a problem with others gearing up to "be as powerful as you can be", and killing noobs. What exactly is the point of the game??? We all are gearing up, to be as powerful as we can be, and we also do not discriminate who we kill. Get off your high horses, and don't worry about how other people are playing locked or not locked. You are being a hypocrite by judging someone when all you can say is you want to gear up, and kill noobs. You have killed noobs too, and you also try your hardest to gear up, to be as powerful as you can be. If you don't like the fact someone is locked and, because you are traveling through that tier quickly, lacking items, spells, equipment to handle a well geared player at that tier in a fight my advice is to level quickly if you don't want to die to those better geared players. How hard is it to get through any one tier? You people whine and cry way too much.

minigodfather

11-14-2007, 07:36 AM

I have played alot of MMOs and I have to say this is by far the worst system to get started in.I have only been playing on Nag for 3 weeks and while I have managed to get adept 3 and master 1 attacks along with mostly treasured/fabled gear I am STILL getting wiped out in 3-5 hits. How can I possibly learn how to pvp when it is impossible to even hurt my attacker with my best attacks?Don't get me wrong I can handle getting killled, I fly a b-wing in pvp and events back on galaxies (a ship most veiw as totaly useless) and I used to play eve where I lost a good few battleships and countless cruisers. But in both of them I can at least stand a chance.Here you need the very best of everything just to stand a chance in the nub areas...

convict

11-14-2007, 09:00 AM

<cite>minigodfather wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have played alot of MMOs and I have to say this is by far the worst system to get started in.I have only been playing on Nag for 3 weeks and while I have managed to get adept 3 and master 1 attacks along with mostly treasured/fabled gear I am STILL getting wiped out in 3-5 hits. How can I possibly learn how to pvp when it is impossible to even hurt my attacker with my best attacks?Don't get me wrong I can handle getting killled, I fly a b-wing in pvp and events back on galaxies (a ship most veiw as totaly useless) and I used to play eve where I lost a good few battleships and countless cruisers. But in both of them I can at least stand a chance.Here you need the very best of everything just to stand a chance in the nub areas...</blockquote>Here is a prime example of what "we" are talking about. You guys keep saying you want to play the way "you" want, but your deciding how others play against you. If they want to compete with you, "you" are FORCING them to play your game by locking,getting max AA, just to compete with your OP toons. At the same time though, when you argue with the non locking camp, you say we are trying to force you to play another way.. It's ok for you to force NEW players to harvest/craft for a couple months before they can even stand a chance to fight your twinks you worked your [Removed for Content] off for? LOL.. If your working your [Removed for Content] off in a game, your doing something wrong.When something new comes along, I hope you lockers like playing on empty servers. It's like the plague, some people find ways they can take advantage over others and they [Removed for Content] it until theres nothing left, and move on to the next best thing to ruin..

convict

11-14-2007, 09:02 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>^Wrong again. Sorry, but I don't see how having 7 level 70s can be fun. You're playing the same zones, fighting the same people, with the same groups. When I have toons locked in each tier I can enjoy every zone with different people. And if I can't find pvp in a certain tier, then I can just log an alt and there's usually someone to fight in another tier. I am so happy that these rumors were false and we can play the game the way we want. </blockquote>Wrong.. I dont have 1 locked toon, guess what, my highest chracter is level 53 with NO LOCKING. I've been playing since the pvp servers launched, and also playing the original game since beta. I seem to find ways to enjoy the game without locking, I dont have a level 70, and I sure dont have 7 of them. I have a life besides EQ2. I dont need to work my [Removed for Content] off in a game to do it either <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ladyvengeance

11-14-2007, 11:44 AM

Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.

blackdragon44

11-14-2007, 12:36 PM

My 2 cents are. Should the eliminate locking tell level 30, no. Because then your going to run into the same exact problem at level 30 with whats in tier 2/3. What should be done is just enable exp during pvp combat. That would solve ALOT of problems. more the people realise. Hell to make the twinker's happy make it 1/2 exp or something. But make it so they cant stay locked in the same tier for months at a time.Now you ask what would this change? First off. It would allow the "noobs" or new players to the server a chance to compete on the server when they start. Because the twinkers would eventually level out of that pvping range. But it would still alow the twinkers to have thier fun 2 (long as it wasnt 100%. say 50% or even 25% exp). 2nd it would provide more people playing in the higher level tiers (werent most tweenkers complaining that there wasnt pvp in the higher tiers, well why wouldnt you want more people leveling up there?) to me its a win win situation. Unless they just want to kill the title/fame system, but thats a whole other arguement all together

Elephanton

11-14-2007, 01:06 PM

<cite>blackdragon44 wrote:</cite><blockquote>My 2 cents are. Should the eliminate locking tell level 30, no. Because then your going to run into the same exact problem at level 30 with whats in tier 2/3. What should be done is just enable exp during pvp combat. That would solve ALOT of problems. more the people realise. Hell to make the twinker's happy make it 1/2 exp or something. But make it so they cant stay locked in the same tier for months at a time.Now you ask what would this change? First off. It would allow the "noobs" or new players to the server a chance to compete on the server when they start. Because the twinkers would eventually level out of that pvping range. But it would still alow the twinkers to have thier fun 2 (long as it wasnt 100%. say 50% or even 25% exp). 2nd it would provide more people playing in the higher level tiers (werent most tweenkers complaining that there wasnt pvp in the higher tiers, well why wouldnt you want more people leveling up there?) to me its a win win situation. Unless they just want to kill the title/fame system, but thats a whole other arguement all together</blockquote>Thank you for understanding and supporting my idea.

Bogenbroom123

11-14-2007, 01:35 PM

[I find it interesting how you people have a problem with others gearing up to "be as powerful as you can be", and killing noobs. What exactly is the point of the game??? We all are gearing up, to be as powerful as we can be, and we also do not discriminate who we kill. Get off your high horses, and don't worry about how other people are playing locked or not locked. You are being a hypocrite by judging someone when all you can say is you want to gear up, and kill noobs. You have killed noobs too, and you also try your hardest to gear up, to be as powerful as you can be. If you don't like the fact someone is locked and, because you are traveling through that tier quickly, lacking items, spells, equipment to handle a well geared player at that tier in a fight my advice is to level quickly if you don't want to die to those better geared players. How hard is it to get through any one tier? You people whine and cry way too much.]Exactly...exactly...exactly. Amen brother..haha.You know, after posting on the forums here a few times regarding this topic, I logged on my lowbie ubertwinkzorz and killed every lowbie I could find. With each kill all I could think was..there...maybe that one was one of the pathetic whiners who was crying about locked toons on the forums. It made each kill that much more satisfying. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Mighty Melvor

11-14-2007, 01:48 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>I do find it amuzing how the suggestion of "no-locking til 30" became a rumor which in turn became fact! I'm sure SOE is working on the 'problem', but they have already stated numerous times that eliminating locking was going to be a last-resort.Here are items I've seen in other posts which may offer alternatives. Now don't you all start rumors now and assume this is what SOE is *going* to do /LOL :1. Revisit the AA cap. Cap is currently out-of-whack for OP T2 and nerfed pre-71. A revised cap would make for a smoother transition to end-game and nerf the overpowered T2s. [(adv - 9) *2] FTW Lvl 14s could only utilize 10AA, instead of 21. Level 70 could utilize 122. Max obtained at 79!2. Mounts should get level restrictions. T2 twinks financed by rich mains riding around on 200 all resists 50% horses is horribly imbalanced.3. PvP ranges should be revamped to be based on adventure level, not zone. Restricting fights based on zones has brought us OP T2s, 59s camping SS, and 65s camping Ant/CL spires. All this is dumb. Basing fights on your adventure level (like PvE) makes the most sense and would discourage locking. So a lvl 14 wants to hunt 10s ay? Well 20s can come and kill the 14... problem solved! Keeping the level range that can kill you higher than the level you can kill will make locking more difficult, but will not eliminate a preferred play style.I like locking. But it doesn't need to be eliminated to quell the current issues out there.

Roald

11-14-2007, 02:55 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>You say you lock so you can play all tiers in PvP. T2-T7. You then say that if they removed locking, you would quit. However, that would only affect your T2/T3 toons. From this it's logical to assume that you enjoy these far more than you T4-T7 toons. Just admit it, don't give us the 'I like all tiers' bs.This game would have been so much better if no one ahd ever started level-locking. PvP would be spread throught all tiers, and newbs wouldn't get turned away like they are now.

Hinosh

11-14-2007, 05:18 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>You say you lock so you can play all tiers in PvP. T2-T7. You then say that if they removed locking, you would quit. However, that would only affect your T2/T3 toons. From this it's logical to assume that you enjoy these far more than you T4-T7 toons. Just admit it, don't give us the 'I like all tiers' bs.This whole game, including the PvE content that was around before they put XP locking in the game even though no one was complaining before PvP came out, would have been so much better if no one had ever started level-locking. PvP would be found mostly at level 70 and very sparce everywhere else, and newbs wouldn't get turned away like they are now, they'd leave the servers because they thought they joined a PvP server when they joined a server where you can duel people at level 70.</blockquote>XP locking was here since the game (not the PvP servers) started. It is useful in PvE, they wouldn't get rid of it just to stop new players from finding PvP at lower levels.

Elephanton

11-14-2007, 05:58 PM

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP locking was here since the game (not the PvP servers) started. It is useful in PvE, they wouldn't get rid of it just to stop new players from finding PvP at lower levels.</blockquote>Yes - but currently there's TOO MUCH PVP on lower tiers, so much that it makes the game very non-friendly for newbies.

Bogenbroom123

11-14-2007, 06:39 PM

Yes - but currently there's TOO MUCH PVP on lower tiers, so much that it makes the game very non-friendly for newbies. Message edited by ElephantonRU on 11/14/2007 13:00:54. [Removed for Content]..."too much pvp"???? Go back to the bluebie servers, or, as SOE even states in their user guide, start on a practice server. If you are on a pvp server that phrase should never pass your lips.

Origin

11-14-2007, 10:08 PM

<cite>Bogenbroom123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes - but currently there's TOO MUCH PVP on lower tiers, so much that it makes the game very non-friendly for newbies. Message edited by ElephantonRU on 11/14/2007 13:00:54. [I cannot control my vocabulary]..."too much pvp"???? Go back to the bluebie servers, or, as SOE even states in their user guide, start on a practice server. If you are on a pvp server that phrase should never pass your lips. </blockquote>As has already been mentioned, starting on a practice server wouldn't do any good. I haven't been dying because I don't know how to PvP, I've been dying because I can do absolutely nothing to a level-locked twink. I've come into some gold through crafting armor, not much, but enough to get some better gear. Last night I had someone lower level than me just stand there and look at me while I cast debuffs and dots and stuns on him... nearly every thing I threw at him was resisted. I got him down to approximately 70-80% health before I ran out of mana(I have over 700), and then he two shotted me into unconsciousness, waited for me to revive, knocked me out again... he did this a couple times, then waved and ran off. I think he just felt sorry for me, as he has been one of the ones killing me repeatedly in cl over the last few days. This has been my experience in every encounter where i've had a chance to cast. I give it everything I have and barely scratch my opponent, whereas they kill me within 3 shots. It's not skill. It's gear and it's AA.

Hinosh

11-14-2007, 10:41 PM

<cite>Origin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bogenbroom123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes - but currently there's TOO MUCH PVP on lower tiers, so much that it makes the game very non-friendly for newbies. Message edited by ElephantonRU on 11/14/2007 13:00:54. [I cannot control my vocabulary]..."too much pvp"???? Go back to the bluebie servers, or, as SOE even states in their user guide, start on a practice server. If you are on a pvp server that phrase should never pass your lips. </blockquote>As has already been mentioned, starting on a practice server wouldn't do any good. I haven't been dying because I don't know how to PvP, I've been dying because I can do absolutely nothing to a level-locked twink. I've come into some gold through crafting armor, not much, but enough to get some better gear. Last night I had someone lower level than me just stand there and look at me while I cast debuffs and dots and stuns on him... nearly every thing I threw at him was resisted. I got him down to approximately 70-80% health before I ran out of mana(I have over 700), and then he two shotted me into unconsciousness, waited for me to revive, knocked me out again... he did this a couple times, then waved and ran off. I think he just felt sorry for me, as he has been one of the ones killing me repeatedly in cl over the last few days. This has been my experience in every encounter where i've had a chance to cast. I give it everything I have and barely scratch my opponent, whereas they kill me within 3 shots. It's not skill. It's gear and it's AA. </blockquote>Since when did this game take skill?SoE doesn't need to change anything. It is working as intended, but no one is playing the game the way they need to play it if they want "fairness."If there's an option to group, then do it. Standing there trying to kill someone might work, but wouldn't it go alot faster if you had a few friends helping you out? You aren't the only person on your faction, and it wouldn't kill you to ask for help.

ladyvengeance

11-15-2007, 01:09 AM

^Exactly. Group. Get yourself into a good guild and they'll help you out. When I first started a few level 70s helped me out by mentoring down and doing some quests with me. If you're a noob and doing this alone then you're pretty much a target. But those twinked out 14s will think twice if you're grouped, especially with a few healers to help you out. I recently made a ranger and was getting owned hard everywhere I went even with good gear and adept 3s. So now whenever I want to pvp I just find a group. People are almost always willing to group with a ranger or a healer.

Bozidar

11-15-2007, 01:22 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>You say you lock so you can play all tiers in PvP. T2-T7. You then say that if they removed locking, you would quit. However, that would only affect your T2/T3 toons. From this it's logical to assume that you enjoy these far more than you T4-T7 toons. Just admit it, don't give us the 'I like all tiers' bs.This game would have been so much better if no one ahd ever started level-locking. PvP would be spread throught all tiers, and newbs wouldn't get turned away like they are now.</blockquote>Millybaby.. i gotta say, you missed a legitimate point.I've got a toon going to end-game. I've got another toon lined up to go right after him. I've got 5 locked toons (one of which is going to get deleted and remade as a sarnak).Now as my two big guys move up, i'm going to move some of the locks up as well -- that's always been how i played. On vox I had a 53, 44, 38, 30, 20 and 15. I was pvping from T2 to T6, and was able to adapt and adjust based on what my friends were doing, and what i felt like doing. On naggy, i've got my 53, 38, 28, 20, 20, 17, and 13. It's been a lot of work to re-start on naggy.. but i'm approaching the situation I had on vox where my toons were spread out throughout the tiers of the game and I could pvp where I want.So i defense of lady vengance, whom i mostly disagree with, the 'i like all tiers' bs is in fact a valid playstyle that I myself enjoy.

Roald

11-15-2007, 08:29 AM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>You say you lock so you can play all tiers in PvP. T2-T7. You then say that if they removed locking, you would quit. However, that would only affect your T2/T3 toons. From this it's logical to assume that you enjoy these far more than you T4-T7 toons. Just admit it, don't give us the 'I like all tiers' bs.This game would have been so much better if no one ahd ever started level-locking. PvP would be spread throught all tiers, and newbs wouldn't get turned away like they are now.</blockquote>Millybaby.. i gotta say, you missed a legitimate point.I've got a toon going to end-game. I've got another toon lined up to go right after him. I've got 5 locked toons (one of which is going to get deleted and remade as a sarnak).Now as my two big guys move up, i'm going to move some of the locks up as well -- that's always been how i played. On vox I had a 53, 44, 38, 30, 20 and 15. I was pvping from T2 to T6, and was able to adapt and adjust based on what my friends were doing, and what i felt like doing. On naggy, i've got my 53, 38, 28, 20, 20, 17, and 13. It's been a lot of work to re-start on naggy.. but i'm approaching the situation I had on vox where my toons were spread out throughout the tiers of the game and I could pvp where I want.So i defense of lady vengance, whom i mostly disagree with, the 'i like all tiers' bs is in fact a valid playstyle that I myself enjoy.</blockquote>Ah yes, but you wouldn't quit if they removed T2/T3 locking would you? You'd carry on with you toons, Maybe lock one a 30, another at 38 and so on. Ladyven says she would quit, meaning that without T2/T3 PvP, EQ2 just isnt worth the 15$ a month fee.

TniEradani

11-15-2007, 01:45 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are we still even arguing about this? ROK came out and guess what? We can all still lock. So I (and many others) are happy. End of story.</blockquote>You say you lock so you can play all tiers in PvP. T2-T7. You then say that if they removed locking, you would quit. However, that would only affect your T2/T3 toons. From this it's logical to assume that you enjoy these far more than you T4-T7 toons. Just admit it, don't give us the 'I like all tiers' bs.This game would have been so much better if no one ahd ever started level-locking. PvP would be spread throught all tiers, and newbs wouldn't get turned away like they are now.</blockquote>Millybaby.. i gotta say, you missed a legitimate point.I've got a toon going to end-game. I've got another toon lined up to go right after him. I've got 5 locked toons (one of which is going to get deleted and remade as a sarnak).Now as my two big guys move up, i'm going to move some of the locks up as well -- that's always been how i played. On vox I had a 53, 44, 38, 30, 20 and 15. I was pvping from T2 to T6, and was able to adapt and adjust based on what my friends were doing, and what i felt like doing. On naggy, i've got my 53, 38, 28, 20, 20, 17, and 13. It's been a lot of work to re-start on naggy.. but i'm approaching the situation I had on vox where my toons were spread out throughout the tiers of the game and I could pvp where I want.So i defense of lady vengance, whom i mostly disagree with, the 'i like all tiers' bs is in fact a valid playstyle that I myself enjoy.</blockquote>Ah yes, but you wouldn't quit if they removed T2/T3 locking would you? You'd carry on with you toons, Maybe lock one a 30, another at 38 and so on. Ladyven says she would quit, meaning that without T2/T3 PvP, EQ2 just isnt worth the 15$ a month fee.</blockquote>Moving Disable Combat XP to lvl 30 would just move problems from 10 to 30 and it wouldn't be the end. People would whine about getting pwned the second they dinged 30 and Disable Combat XP would get moved to 40 and 50 and more things that make PvP dangerous would be removed. If this ever happens, lots of people will quit even if they don't lock their toons in T2, but simple Disable Combat XP for a variety of different reason.

Roald

11-15-2007, 03:54 PM

<cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Moving Disable Combat XP to lvl 30 would just move problems from 10 to 30 and it wouldn't be the end. People would whine about getting pwned the second they dinged 30 and Disable Combat XP would get moved to 40 and 50 and more things that make PvP dangerous would be removed. If this ever happens, lots of people will quit even if they don't lock their toons in T2, but simple Disable Combat XP for a variety of different reason.</blockquote>No, it would not just move the problem.People would have had 20 levels of getting to know to know their class, and more importantly, getting to know PvP. The DO's and the DON'T's. How to judge a fight. Their role in a group. How best to use their spells/CAs, and all the multiple things us experienced PvPers do. And, people would be far less inclined to quit a toon that they've had fun with for 30 levels.

Ivane

11-19-2007, 03:55 PM

Im playing on the RU EQ2 servers And we will have the RoK approximately on December 2007 So I can conclude in the RoK 1) XP lock on T2-T3 tiers - work 2) When I lock XP on T2-T3 and kill another player in the pvp I will get no exp - true Am I right?

Hinosh

11-19-2007, 06:23 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Moving Disable Combat XP to lvl 30 would just move problems from 10 to 30 and it wouldn't be the end. People would whine about getting pwned the second they dinged 30 and Disable Combat XP would get moved to 40 and 50 and more things that make PvP dangerous would be removed. If this ever happens, lots of people will quit even if they don't lock their toons in T2, but simple Disable Combat XP for a variety of different reason.</blockquote>No, it would not just move the problem.People would have had 20 levels of getting to know to know their class, and more importantly, getting to know PvP. The DO's and the DON'T's. How to judge a fight. Their role in a group. How best to use their spells/CAs, and all the multiple things us experienced PvPers do. And, people would be far less inclined to quit a toon that they've had fun with for 30 levels.</blockquote>They wouldn't get a chance to "get to know their class" in PvP if they don't see any PvP before they reach level 30. People level up through T1-3 very quickly.Most of the people who complain about the low level twinks would probably quit the servers by the time they reach level 20 because they haven't seen a single hostile player in those 10 levels they've been allowed to PvP. Who would stay on a PvP server if all they had was PvE?Those who reach level 30 will get killed over and over again by the people who twink at level 30ish because they can't learn something they weren't taught. How are you going to find out what PvP is like if you haven't PvP'd at the lower levels?As for the skills "experienced" PvPers have in the first place, it's either button mashing or a good tactic that SoE got rid of because people refused to find out a counter strategy they could use.

Psych

11-20-2007, 09:00 AM

mm, speaking as a new player (2 level 14's on rp/pvp server brig+coercer) I was killed serveral times in 1 day as my brigand but not once yet as coercer and I did get to help gank a twink as my coercer which was tons of fun.No I havnt faced a single qeynosian in gear like mine. My brigand was killed by guys that I hardly scratched and had mounts, incredible gear, etc. It sucks to get pk'd by someone like this and it taught me nothing about my character pvp wise...just that twinks can kill me and I shouldnt fight them but probably cant outrun them.But there is an easy solution to this really...caps. Make caps for stats, resists, damage, etc at each level this way it puts more emphasis on pvp and less on gear. Lets say some guy has stacked up 900 health at level X...ok...make that cap for level X 500 health. Fixed. He now has no reason to look for that gear or pay for that gear so he has more time to PVP and the players he fights have a chance in hell. Yay.Yeah yeah "Oh but I bought the gear I should get its effects!" no. thats why each item has a pvp version...this is a way to make sure pvp versions dont get exploited by twinkers because apparently making seperate pvp versions for each item in an attempt to keep things balanced isnt enough they have to balance the system itself, lock the system, not the gear.Its a fix all solution imo. Make the cap very good, but not invincible so gear matters but not as much as it does now. Its player vs player not plat vs plat. I am 14...I dont have a single spell past app1 for cakes sake they guys killin me 3 shot me! Not fun for me, not challenging for them. Cap them, they still win but now they have to try and I can feel like I had a chance and maybe if I get better items, I do better.Oh, and if the problem is the AA's you can cap those too. Here is a simple way to do it...level x1.5 or x2?So level 14 guys killin me cant have more than 21 or 28 aa points...still WAY more than me (like 4-6) so they have an edge gained from their time spent...but no more edge than that until they level and yeah, sure some wanna lock their exp for quests...well...ok...so do the quests...you just wont get aa exp til you level your adventurer level...you get your quests and dont get to exploit massing AA's. Problem solved.I realize this might be a good deal of code since each class needs a different cap most likely...since the hp cap of a guardian needs to be higher than the HP cap of a wizard but I really hope someone reading this REALLY considers it. any critique on the idea is cool too. we players can solve the problem through constructive feedback.

Mighty Melvor

11-20-2007, 12:48 PM

<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh, and if the problem is the AA's you can cap those too. Here is a simple way to do it...level x1.5 or x2?</blockquote>They already have a AA cap in place on PvP servers. It's (adv x 1.5). Lvl 14s are capped at 21 AA. It is still overpowering in T2.It has been suggested to revise the cap to [(adv-9) x 2]. Lvl 14s would be capped at 10 AA. Would make for a smoother AA cap all the way to T8.

Psych

11-20-2007, 04:15 PM

Yeah, see how new I am haha. I tried to read up on the PVP servers but didnt find that info. It just goes to show that soe is on the same page. CAPS ARE GOOD but take time to get right. if x2 or x1.5 is too much then yeah like -9 x2 or worse. Something that allows way more than the amount of AA's you get without locking your exp so people who do can still gain a few extra AA's if they WANT but cant overpower their character vs everyone without maxed AA's.I heard someone the other day in the 10-19 channel ask if his life/power were good and he listed them. He said he was level 12. Then another guy chimed in saying that his character of the same class at level 19 doesnt have that much in EITHER life/power. Thats crazy. BUT a cap of a level 12's life/power would fix this. So he cant ever get more than say a 14's life/power figuring for gear increase etc.I know SOE is capable of all this even if it takes a while to code. I really hope they look into it because I think its the best way since it has the most detail to allow tweaks and fixes for the smallest amount of unfairness.

Svetlanavera

11-20-2007, 04:56 PM

I will say this again, removing the ability to turn off combat experience will not only alter the game play experience of "gankers" but of many other people who actually want to experience the game and not just race to the top. It won't stop gank groups just up their level and in the process irritate a lot of people who like questing and playing the game they way they want to.

Psych

11-21-2007, 10:56 AM

so dont turn it off...just leave the AA cap where it is and make a stat/life/power/etc cap for each class and make that cap scale with each level...kinda...kinda like mentoring. Problem solved. You get to lock, twinks get to be stronger than normal but not godlike, you can still reasonably gain a buttload of AA's early on....SOLVED.next problem please SOE. I'm here to help.

ckl

11-21-2007, 11:05 AM

They'd better lower the faction requirements for the lower level pvp gear if they remove level locking. Otherwise there's no way to get it, especially since apparently xp debt was removed.Otherwise new players will have to do as we all did and learn the game in a trial by fire. If it wasn't by getting steamrolled by a few twinks on a pvp server, it was amassing 50% xp debt in wailing caves by repeatedly grouping with people who didn't care to learn the mechanics of the game... back in 2004. This dumbing down of the game at lower tiers with RoK can only hinder new players' prospects in the future. I'd be the first one to celebrate, though, if the dumbing down of gear was extended to T8.

Spyderbite

11-21-2007, 12:00 PM

<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>They'd better lower the faction requirements for the lower level pvp gear if they remove level locking. Otherwise there's no way to get it, especially since apparently xp debt was removed.</blockquote>Bah.. why are we trying to come up with more complicated solutions when the obvious solution is a simple solution?!Remove fame from the lower tiers. Period. What does a level 14 toon need a "General" tag for? Get real people. The only motivation for killing new players that are under equipped and less experienced is for fame. The "we want to lock so we can fight each other in T2" is getting really old. I haven't seen a twink vs. twink fight in at least 3 months. And that only lasted about the time it took for the invading group to run to the griffon tower in an attempt to zone out.Just remove fame from the lower levels.. and the problem is solved. No reward.. no reason to farm newbs. Hell.. go a step further and make character age a factor. Kill somebody a day old.. take away one or two titles! Gawd I bet the twinks are glad I'm not a developer. XD

Kulharr

11-21-2007, 12:46 PM

You'd have to completely revamp the rewards system or not a single character would be able to use a pvp reward cause they'd be way to high in level before having enough faction.

Spyderbite

11-21-2007, 01:07 PM

<cite>Kulharin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You'd have to completely revamp the rewards system or not a single character would be able to use a pvp reward cause they'd be way to high in level before having enough faction.</blockquote>Soo... what's the problem? Without a fame advantage... there's no point to own such gear at the lower levels anyways. Once again... we're heading down the path of "there is a lot of fair PvP between level lockers" when we all know that it isn't true.

ckl

11-21-2007, 01:56 PM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>They'd better lower the faction requirements for the lower level pvp gear if they remove level locking. Otherwise there's no way to get it, especially since apparently xp debt was removed.</blockquote>Bah.. why are we trying to come up with more complicated solutions when the obvious solution is a simple solution?!Remove fame from the lower tiers. Period. What does a level 14 toon need a "General" tag for? Get real people. The only motivation for killing new players that are under equipped and less experienced is for fame. The "we want to lock so we can fight each other in T2" is getting really old. I haven't seen a twink vs. twink fight in at least 3 months. And that only lasted about the time it took for the invading group to run to the griffon tower in an attempt to zone out.Just remove fame from the lower levels.. and the problem is solved. No reward.. no reason to farm newbs. Hell.. go a step further and make character age a factor. Kill somebody a day old.. take away one or two titles! Gawd I bet the twinks are glad I'm not a developer. XD</blockquote>Remove fame all you like; I'll still play a twink. The real reasons for it are faction, time it takes to min/max, and the number of people to fight.I also don't see many people who've played for less than a week and have a pvp title.. so what does someone at level 14 having a general title tell you? Surely you can't say that he got that off someone who just hit level 10.

ckl

11-21-2007, 03:39 PM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kulharin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You'd have to completely revamp the rewards system or not a single character would be able to use a pvp reward cause they'd be way to high in level before having enough faction.</blockquote>Soo... what's the problem? Without a fame advantage... there's no point to own such gear at the lower levels anyways. Once again... we're heading down the path of "there is a lot of fair PvP between level lockers" when we all know that it isn't true.</blockquote>Soo... what's it in the game for?"Yeah, let's put in awesome level 20 pvp gear," said the EQ developer, "but put such a high faction requirement no one can use it. That'll teach those [Removed for Content] who pvp!"Somehow I think not.

Psych

11-24-2007, 04:05 PM

quoted from cklab "The real reasons for it are faction, time it takes to min/max, and the number of people to fight."Uerm...wut?The number of people to fight obviously changes as they level. If your suggesting that they are staying in your range then they are level locking to twink out just like you eventually and only because of said twink issue that if removed would lead you and them to pvp at higher levels. So 1 reason to twink is a reason that exists only because of twinking?Faction...wait...if a 54 kills a 55 or 53 does he get faction? I honestly dont know but I find it hard to believe that if the entire group of 19's killing me when I was 15 got faction then I assume yes a 54 killing a 55 or 53 gives faction too so that reason I dont understand.The min/max time is definitely true and cant be disputed, even I can tell that. I've made several characters and it took longer to get a coercer to 20 than a brigand to 14 so yeah your right. BUT, in the time it takes to lock your exp bar, get a load of AA's, make the gold for the mastercrafted items, completely twink the character...I mean if you were honestly to do this without already having a high level alt it would take prolly as long as it takes to hit level 40 playing normally....maybe it takes less now with the ROK items being so good but I still havnt seen a twink without sanguine/lambent so I dunno.I say cap each level for each class....there is a cap on harvesting skill...on the level of each skill on the number of AA's per level...all good and we need some more to cap pvp so I cant unload on a guy for a minute straight while he is afk then have him come back and kill me in 2 CA's...