New Player ( 1 month in ) thoughts on Level Lockers

[DarkBlightTMO]

first and foremost, i am a vet to MMO's.I am not going to rattle off a long list, but i started with UO in the dread lord days, played everything in between and have recently ended up here. I figured, since it sounds like SOE may make changes for people like me who have just started ( making level lock cap 30ish) , that i would share my opinion and experience I have had here on the nag server. People level lock to gank newbies. Please spare your lies and excuses, you lock at 14, 15 etc to kill people who are new to the game in a newbie grind area.It happened to me tons, i am now level 64 ( should hit 65 tonight ) and i am in a race for 70 so i can 70-80 asap. About 75% of my deaths came from twink gank groups who stroll around the common lands killing newbies who are trying to quest there.Does this bother me? No. It is a pvp server, i am new to the game, and i expect to die. I would be disappointed if i did not get owned. what does bother me is that now that I have a higher level, i cannot go seek revenge. I cannot protect others. And here soe, is your problem:leave the zones that are around now open for level lockers etc. it sucks to nerf something that people have invested alot of time into.But for true, pvp nuts, like i am, open a FFA pvp zone. Where being high level, getting the gear, and making alliances means something real in terms of regulating the server. Free For All pvp fixs all problems.My server would have:communication enabled between FP, Q's and exilesand FFA within the factions as well.certain towns with guards you can get faction for, who will then protect youso you pick your city by getting faction, but can still attack others of your faction, and be attacked.This fixs: twinks, level lockers, and the imbalance of certain professions being for one side. plus it would be very fun<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />/flame away

[Spider]

<p>Before you FFA beckon, go spend a few months as an Exile at lvl 10.  Its the best anyone in EQ2 is going to see in regards to FFA.  </p><p>Revenge is not a built in feature in EQ2 pvp.  We have immortal toons that never die.  Others are not 'killing' you or your friends.  Yeah, they may enjoy griefing you some, and that is the big ordeal about locking that is being worked on.  </p><p>I once was a T2 locker, then T3, T4, and now T5.  I have totally enjoyed every tier I locked in, but griefing was not part of my daily routine.  That was over a year ago and I have seen the T2 pvp take a big dump over the months and it needs fixed.  It is not what it once was, it is now an uber twink grief fest.  When a player, new or experienced dies to the same twinks about a dozen or more times in 30 minutes then something needs to be done.  This is not just a PvP game/server we play on, its a PvP/PvE server/game.  </p><p>I play PvP because its how Norrath should be played, Good vs. Evil with an in between like Exiling.  I never could understand how members of Qeynos could happily group with members of Freeport, it was just generic icing game play passed out to the masses.</p><p>Like I said, you want FFA, go Exile a lvl 10 toon and enjoy the game from the other end of the spectrum you so want put in the game.</p>

[DarkBlightTMO]

<cite>Spider@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Before you FFA beckon, go spend a few months as an Exile at lvl 10.  Its the best anyone in EQ2 is going to see in regards to FFA.  </p><p>Revenge is not a built in feature in EQ2 pvp.  We have immortal toons that never die.  Others are not 'killing' you or your friends.  Yeah, they may enjoy griefing you some, and that is the big ordeal about locking that is being worked on.  </p><p>I once was a T2 locker, then T3, T4, and now T5.  I have totally enjoyed every tier I locked in, but griefing was not part of my daily routine.  That was over a year ago and I have seen the T2 pvp take a big dump over the months and it needs fixed.  It is not what it once was, it is now an uber twink grief fest.  When a player, new or experienced dies to the same twinks about a dozen or more times in 30 minutes then something needs to be done.  This is not just a PvP game/server we play on, its a PvP/PvE server/game.  </p><p>I play PvP because its how Norrath should be played, Good vs. Evil with an in between like Exiling.  I never could understand how members of Qeynos could happily group with members of Freeport, it was just generic icing game play passed out to the masses.</p><p>Like I said, you want FFA, go Exile a lvl 10 toon and enjoy the game from the other end of the spectrum you so want put in the game.</p></blockquote>i am more interested in FFA in terms of no level limits on pvp  70's go after newbies but then have other 70's come after them. rather have everyone working on getting 70

[Hinosh]

Here's a solution that doesn't get FFA in this game: If you are a Qeynosian in Freeportian newbie areas (CL, Ruins, Sprawl, etc.) you can be attacked by people 8 levels above you, but you can only start fights against Freeportians who are 4 levels lower than you. Same goes for a Freeportian in Qeynos areas. This way, if a level 14 character enters the enemy's territory to "gank" low level characters, a level 22 character can come kill them. There, "problem" solved, and all it took was a small update that makes alot of sense when you think about it.

[Tae]

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's a solution that doesn't get FFA in this game: </blockquote>Remove level locking. Problem solved and it doesn't require long drawn out mechanics. There's no reason for it whatsoever. Take it out of the game.

[Hinosh]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's a solution that doesn't get FFA in this game: </blockquote>Remove level locking. Problem solved and it doesn't require long drawn out mechanics. There's no reason for it whatsoever. Take it out of the game.</blockquote>Did you even read my post? I get it, most people level lock to PvP only. But don't forget it was here /before/ PvP was added and it still is used by people who PvE. You still won't stop the newbies from dying unfair deaths. It's always going to be there, no matter what change is made. Now, if you had actually looked at what I had written past the first ten words, you'd see that it wasn't anywhere near "long [and] drawn out." Just make a few minor changes to level ranges.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>DarkBlightTMO wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>rather have everyone working on getting 70</blockquote>Well.. there's the rub. Many, many people aren't interested on dinging 70. Most are interested in enjoying the game at a natural progression. And, due to the amount of content available, in order to enjoy it all, its some times necessary to lock for a while.FFA is not the answer. I too played UO.. from beta til September of last year unplugging my toon on Siege Perilous. FFA PvP does not work.FFA PvP has one valid place to exist.. FPS on game consoles.You're banking on the fact that "Player Justice" will kick in like it did in the early days of UO. It won't work here.Just my opinion of course. And, while I'd have no problem being proven wrong. You'll have to tell me about it from another game. I came to EQ2 to escape the FFA PvP environments. And, I'll move on yet again if one were ever implemented on the existing servers. And further, I'm sure there are many that would eventually follow and/or precede me.

[Tae]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>You're banking on the fact that "Player Justice" will kick in like it did in the early days of UO. It won't work here.</blockquote>Player justice never kicked in, which is why Trammel was introduced. As people have already stated, get some lowbie exiles and wander around a little. See how much you enjoy being oneshotted by people who are just walking nearby. And Hinosh it's pretty drawn out in comparison to removing level locking. I couldn't give a hoot about people who've level locked to experience PvM content - if they want to do that they can go to a PvM server or roll another character and go through the stuff again. Level locking is ruining the PvP population, and isn't that what we're here to do? If something is spoiling PvP then it needs to go.

[Hinosh]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>And Hinosh it's pretty drawn out in comparison to removing level locking. I couldn't give a hoot about people who've level locked to experience PvM content - if they want to do that they can go to a PvM server or roll another character and go through the stuff again. Level locking is ruining the PvP population, and isn't that what we're here to do? If something is spoiling PvP then it needs to go.</blockquote><p>That's like saying if you aren't on a PvP server to only PvP 24/7 and not even look at the PvE part of the game, you shouldn't be on a PvP server. I think the only reason you want to get rid of XP locking is because you want more people to fight at level 70. You don't really even care about new players enjoying the game, you just want to PvP more at 70. Removing XP locking won't help you with that, however. If you get rid of XP locking,</p><p>1. The twinks who are "ruining the PvP" in the game won't log on their higher level alts to play, they'll quit PvP altogether;</p><p>2. The players who are new to the game will reach level twenty and only have seen one or two hostile players. They won't keep playing if they don't see the server has a healthy population at T2-3. What's the point of playing on a PvP server if you never see any other players to kill?</p><p>C. The population at level 70 will stay the same as it always was.</p>

[wellehad0]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>You're banking on the fact that "Player Justice" will kick in like it did in the early days of UO. It won't work here.</blockquote>Player justice never kicked in, which is why Trammel was introduced. As people have already stated, get some lowbie exiles and wander around a little. See how much you enjoy being oneshotted by people who are just walking nearby.And Hinosh it's pretty drawn out in comparison to removing level locking. I couldn't give a hoot about people who've level locked to experience PvM content - if they want to do that they can go to a PvM server or roll another character and go through the stuff again. Level locking is ruining the PvP population, and isn't that what we're here to do? If something is spoiling PvP then it needs to go.</blockquote><p>ok so if somthing is spioling pvp then by your terms it needs to go well you know what will Spoil pvp hmm i bet it would be that you could NO longeR PVP unless you want to grind for 3-4 months  so that you get to lvl 70 oh wait now we will have to wait till lvl 80 to pvp</p><p>so i bet now if we do get attacked by somebody who still wishes to PVP then what are we supposed to stand there and die so that we dont risk getting EXP. (YA THAT WILL MAKE EVERYTHING SO MUCH BETTER) lvl locking has never been the problem its lazy people who choose not to lvl lock when it is offered to them thoughs peopel are the smae ones i see in t3 everyday who are 8 lvls higher then me and still cant so wihtout every fight lasting a hour or being in near death.. have you ever tried to roll a FG group with a bunch of lvl 30 non locked non geared people its insane how weak they are compared to you who have worked your butt off to get max AA's for your lvl..</p><p>lets also look at this if they took out lvl locking what would happen to people who are already maxed for there lvl ya i bet the noobs comming up will think its SO FAIR NOW when they are dead before they even blink and im not talking about being ganked by groups but now they would go down jsut as fast from a pre locked toon</p><p>you people who complain offer no way to fix this other then just throw out hard core PVP intill 70...</p><p>also think how long will people still play the game if you cant pvp till 70 once you are 70 you would have 2 choices RAID or PVP.. most of us dont have time to raid so it would be just a buch of lvl 70's who are already burned out from the grind fro 1-70 to jsut do th esame thing over and over without any chance of somthing new.... also with TWO other MMO's that will be based around hardcore PVP most people would go to them  due to they would not have to sit there and grind 3 months jsut to get what they play on the server for.. so yes people like you might stay but good luck because PVP will be mighty boring with the 20 of you still left </p>

[Verith]

IMO, I think that the title system should be changed/ or removed if the changed state doesnt work. Im fine with the locking being changed to level 30, just means you get a chance to actually take a breath of fresh air, unlike after getting off island/newbie area then running into a hellstorm of grouped ganking by nothing but twinks. And, (with my experience with twink fights) they pretty much are one sided no matter how hard you look at it. A group of non-twinks vs. 3 twinks, twinks always win. So, EVEN THOUGH MOST OF YOU TWINKS WILL JUST SAY AND MAYBE, either quit, move to level 30, or whine untill its changed, (if the locking is changed to 30 that is), just get over it. Majority of the server either takes advantage of the twinking/locking system, or complains about it. atleast if its changed, theres some chance that people are able to work up to gear around t3 before hitting t4 and getting some chance to battle twinks for those who take advantage at the locking system at 30. Besides the locking system, other than some of the speed hackers i've seen, (and yes, it was a speed hack, its impossible for someone to run infront of me look at me for a second, and then run all the way across the field to a mountain and dissapear in 1 second), pvp seems pretty fun. I admit, some things are broken in it, but its only broken because of the excessive twinking. So if its anyone to blame for the locking system being changed, blame yourselves if you locked and twinked and whored yourself to kill any new player in sight and call them a newb and go home.

[wellehad0]

<cite>Verith@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO, I think that the title system should be changed/ or removed if the changed state doesnt work. Im fine with the locking being changed to level 30, just means you get a chance to actually take a breath of fresh air, unlike after getting off island/newbie area then running into a hellstorm of grouped ganking by nothing but twinks. And, (with my experience with twink fights) they pretty much are one sided no matter how hard you look at it. A group of non-twinks vs. 3 twinks, twinks always win. So, EVEN THOUGH MOST OF YOU TWINKS WILL JUST SAY AND MAYBE, either quit, move to level 30, or whine untill its changed, (if the locking is changed to 30 that is), just get over it. Majority of the server either takes advantage of the twinking/locking system, or complains about it. atleast if its changed, theres some chance that people are able to work up to gear around t3 before hitting t4 and getting some chance to battle twinks for those who take advantage at the locking system at 30. Besides the locking system, other than some of the speed hackers i've seen, (and yes, it was a speed hack, its impossible for someone to run infront of me look at me for a second, and then run all the way across the field to a mountain and dissapear in 1 second), pvp seems pretty fun. I admit, some things are broken in it, but its only broken because of the excessive twinking. So if its anyone to blame for the locking system being changed, blame yourselves if you locked and twinked and whored yourself to kill any new player in sight and call them a newb and go home.</blockquote><p>so PVP is broken because people choose to gear up for fights? who goes into a fight with a stick against armys with nukes... people are still trying to pass this over as most people dont lock.. im sorry but its about time that the majority wins not the people who scream the most..  go outside to CL or DL on a weekend and you will see more people running around in PVP groups then you would ever see questing or grinding..</p><p>there is no way they will remove lvl locking because it sbeen here since day one and only a few people are upset about it... what would be fine by me is just removing PVP intill lvl 22 if you cant get your AA's up and cant Gear up by then im sorry my friend but you choose the wrong server.</p><p>i am really sorry that there is not enough lvl 70 toons for some of you to play with so if you want to pvp re roll and twink with me </p>

[Verith]

<p>Oh no, the group i was in didnt refuse to level lock, I basically HAD to level lock in order to just survive with AA points, and thats the only real reason I had to level lock, just so I can get some AA points in order to compete. Most of my gear isnt crap either, (well now it is cause i basically rushed leveled and all of it is just about out dated now). Its the fact that at level 15 or 16, a duo can kill a complete group of level 17ish and still manage to survive, (yes it was Warden-whatever the other toon was, i think ranger or something).</p><p>Its the fact that theres no way in hell that someone thats new to the game, get a chance to compete unless they do the same exact thing everyone else does, which in my terms seems lame and bland, mostly boring. PvP shouldnt be all about grinding to a high level then farming for gear, then locking a low toon and pvping locked. It seems simply stupid in thought that 1 twinked out melee warden can kill a group of 3-4 people. But what really pisses me off is a group of level 14 twinks can kill me and a friend who were level 25. Thats just [Removed for Content] stupid. I am not lazy, but for me to make 2 chars in order to craft my gear and farm for master crafted gear just in order to compete with the groups or solo twinks who can take an army down before thinking about running.</p><p>But even on the running issue, I never really had a problem with the running issue, but if a twinked locker can haul [Removed for Content] way away from a group with 50% health and resist every spell thrown at just seems a bit lame.</p><p> I love pvp, and I have had my share of fair fights and loved them, but just majority of my day is trying to avoid losing any money i built up to get some better gear just for the twinks to get a "title" so little newbies just [Removed for Content] their virtual pants at the power of their title and twinked gear. nough of my rambling, time to get back to working on my [Removed for Content] gear >_>.</p>

[Xelphneigh]

 I'm not going into full debate mode on this issue as others have stated bits and pieces of what I feel anyway HOWEVER Twinks will kill new players. There currently is a 30 minute /recent kill list so you can see who you've ganked within the past 30 mins Griefing does occur with really no benefit less some new guy goes, between twink bashings, and grabs 20pp out of the bank Some possible solutions... Make the /recent list 60 mins AND Employ a penalty to those who kill again while prior kill was still on /recent Make it a debuff for starters, incurable, such as the carnage flag while city PVP that increases in penalty for each and every 'grief' kill until ultimately they become FFA for anyone of the opposite faction to build in that 'revenge' factor.  I'm sure, as many have gone through, the rage that builds when getting bashed time and time again, over and over from the same twinks who dry hump your corpse as if you had any chance at all.. While many say `rally a group` and go get some revenge, for the new player it's not that easy.  Honestly, with this simple system you build in penalties for grief'ing up to the point where the chronic abusers become FFA for even the level 70's who WILL get fame from the kill.  Build in some `shock and awe` factor or even some buff for those who rally to help purge the scourge of the lands, maybe +5% exp or +10% increased monetary benefit from pve.  Oh well some issues with it I'm sure but I think it could be developed.  I don't want to see FFA as I agree wtih many, it doesn't work.  As a long time pvp'er from many, many games of past sure the FFA was nice if you had the odds and the levels but just sucked donkey if you were on the other side of the coin.  Think Achems Razor - <span>All things being equal, the most simple explanation is probably the correct explanation.</span>

[Origin]

<span class="postbody">"so PVP is broken because people choose to gear up for fights? who goes into a fight with a stick against armys with nukes..."Every new player who doesn't have a level 70 to twink out his character with. </span>

[minigodfather]

I locked myself at level 10 to learn this game (only been playing about a month) and so that once I know what I am doing I can try and protect new players. I realy hate the fact that the commonlands are safer for a newer player (10-15) than the actual starting areas.