Level range Revisited

[Gimet]

<p>Many of you...heck, probably all of you will hate me for saying this...but it is a serious issue.</p><p>Level range for all zones should be 4 or 5. No more, no less.</p><p>8, 10, or unlimited is way too much no matter how you slice it. You guys are worried about teir 2 locking, but shouldn't most of you be worried about this instead? Yes, I know, ANT used to be 8 level range then they changed it to 4. And TS used to be 10 but they changed it to 8, but let's get real here...every zone should be 4 or 5. Even twinked, certain classes are almost impossible to beat at your level, let alone 8 levels higher. ESPECIALLY when your group is trying to go through an instance and a highe rlevel gorup that has something there can just lift their pinkies and kill you. We've all learn to deal with getting killed from people much higher than us, but quite frankly I think it needs to end. The other night, my friend and I were doing quests in SH and owning any freeps we saw. They obviously didn't get the memo that we didn't want them to be there (because on gorup always winds up stealing/killing the other) and continued to come. So we continued to kill them (2 of them, 2 of us). They obviously got [Removed for Content] enough to call out a friend. A level 37 Warden...I'm a level 29 Conjuror, and my friend was a 27 or 28 Troubador. Let's examine this situation...</p><p>We already know that Wardens can be, and are completely overpowered. If you can't drain their power and withstand their uber-strong heals and constant attacks, you lose ven if they're below your level. As I said, a Troub and a Conjy. He resists my roots all the time, he's too high leveled for my friend's Trouby mezzes and stuff, and on top of that whatever damage we do he does one heal to make it go to waste. Of course we lose.</p><p>Let's change the scene a bit...You are questing in..let's say, DoF. You're a super-twinked 45, you're killing freeps in your level, and are doing pretty well. The level range here is 10, right? Well, sucks for but DoF has content for people way higher than you, therefore you will run into someone more than 4 or 5 levels. At this teir and depending on your class, do you relaly think you can take on an even more twinked class that's 5-10 levels higher than you? Maybe you can, heck, I can at times. But this game isn't about you, think of the majority of the PvPers. Can they do it? Not that I know of. You'll constantly be whipped until you can't go on any longer with your so close to finished quest.</p><p>The only time level range doesn't matter is at level 70...soon to be 80. Now tell me, 10-69 (soon 79) is a lot of unbalanced classes, and levels higher than you. And a level range past 5 can be too much if you run into the wrong people...even someone you were expecting.</p><p>Am I the only one who think that anything above a 5 level range is a bit much...or am I just a PvP wuss who wants "easymode."</p><p>An Edit- This post equals an IDEA...something we could perhaps work on. There are plenty of things I didn't consider...yes...and I'm sure you can bring up plenty of examples trying to be nit-picky about what I said. I still stand by my point that the level ranges are flawed in most areas...especially instanced zones.</p>

[Bloodfa]

The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.

[Gimet]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.</blockquote>Hm...this is true...but even if you were in their level range where you could get the jump on them..chance sare you can still get owned. Though I understand exactly what you're talking about. Especially when you are in an on-level gorup vs gorup fight and all of the greys around join in.

[Mighty Melvor]

<p>Gee, you got killed and now you want the ranges nerfed?</p><p>They already borked the level ranges to make PvP so limited, now we should limit it even more?! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your avatar died - Move on, get over it!  This is PvP - you are going to lose from time to time.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Gee, you got killed and now you want the ranges nerfed?</p><p>They already borked the level ranges to make PvP so limited, now we should limit it even more?! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your avatar died - Move on, get over it!  This is PvP - you are going to lose from time to time.</p></blockquote>Um...no. You seem to not understand. First of all, early on I said that I already kenw they nerfed level ranges. Second of all, that was my EXAMPLE. That wasn't the only time it has happened to me and surely not to you, or any other player. It's an idea, not a whine statement.

[Darkor]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.</blockquote>Hm...this is true...but even if you were in their level range where you could get the jump on them..chance sare you can still get owned. Though I understand exactly what you're talking about. Especially when you are in an on-level gorup vs gorup fight and all of the greys around join in.</blockquote><p>Wrong. Take a Ranger for example.</p><p>A lvl 62 Ranger can easily take out a lvl 70 champ brigand (ive seen it plenty times with my own eyes)</p><p>How you ask? Kinda easy. Get the lvl 59 treasured Bylze Bow, target your opponent. Now you cast both your dps buffs, go in stealth and open up with a snipershot followed by UNHOLY dps (including 1.5k auto attacks that can double shot). The result is 8k pure damage in less than 3 seconds. Rangers can do this in 'Antonica and Commonlands easily as those zones have 4 level pvp range. Now imagine it they could do this in all zones. Hell no please! Its enough that 2x lvl 58 could beat me at lvl 70 so easy, that i was close in doubting the overall rules in this game.</p><p>And i am not even considering greys grouping up.</p><p>EDIT: By the way, usually the one who gets to start the fight will win. Thats prob the hugest advantage of scouts with stealth and evac. Have a scout jump you from behind with all his dps buffs on, you wont last 10 seconds. And thats the big problem here, you have people arround you who can kill you but you cannot defend yourself.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.</blockquote>Hm...this is true...but even if you were in their level range where you could get the jump on them..chance sare you can still get owned. Though I understand exactly what you're talking about. Especially when you are in an on-level gorup vs gorup fight and all of the greys around join in.</blockquote><p>Wrong. Take a Ranger for example.</p><p>A lvl 62 Ranger can easily take out a lvl 70 champ brigand (ive seen it plenty times with my own eyes)</p><p>How you ask? Kinda easy. Get the lvl 59 treasured Bylze Bow, target your opponent. Now you cast both your dps buffs, go in stealth and open up with a snipershot followed by UNHOLY dps (including 1.5k auto attacks that can double shot). The result is 8k pure damage in less than 3 seconds. Rangers can do this in 'Antonica and Commonlands easily as those zones have 4 level pvp range. Now imagine it they could do this in all zones. Hell no please! Its enough that 2x lvl 58 could beat me at lvl 70 so easy, that i was close in doubting the overall rules in this game.</p><p>And i am not even considering greys grouping up.</p></blockquote><p>Not everyone plays super-powered Rangers now do they? Put a...Mystic in that rangers position...or a Necro/Conjuror. Hell, put a Guardian with god-like health. One class may be able to do it..heck, 4 of them. But that's a small fraction to all of the other classes.</p>

[ladyvengeance]

<p>So you were owning freeps in Stormhold and they called in an overpowered warden to come and kill you....I fail to see the problem. You would probably do the same thing. </p><p>I don't like the level ranges either but I agree that they are there for a reason. Can you imagine a 65 getting the jump on a 70 just because he's grey? Terrible idea.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.</blockquote>Hm...this is true...but even if you were in their level range where you could get the jump on them..chance sare you can still get owned. Though I understand exactly what you're talking about. Especially when you are in an on-level gorup vs gorup fight and all of the greys around join in.</blockquote><p>Wrong. Take a Ranger for example.</p><p>A lvl 62 Ranger can easily take out a lvl 70 champ brigand (ive seen it plenty times with my own eyes)</p><p>How you ask? Kinda easy. Get the lvl 59 treasured Bylze Bow, target your opponent. Now you cast both your dps buffs, go in stealth and open up with a snipershot followed by UNHOLY dps (including 1.5k auto attacks that can double shot). The result is 8k pure damage in less than 3 seconds. Rangers can do this in 'Antonica and Commonlands easily as those zones have 4 level pvp range. Now imagine it they could do this in all zones. Hell no please! Its enough that 2x lvl 58 could beat me at lvl 70 so easy, that i was close in doubting the overall rules in this game.</p><p>And i am not even considering greys grouping up.</p></blockquote><p>Not everyone plays super-powered Rangers now do they? Put a...Mystic in that rangers position...or a Necro/Conjuror. Hell, put a Guardian with god-like health. One class may be able to do it..heck, 4 of them. But that's a small fraction to all of the other classes.</p></blockquote><p>Ranger is one of so many examples.</p><p>Take a Brigand who casts his dps buffs and starts from behind with a good combo of devitalize, dispatch and double up. Bang you're half way down in your health and got powerfull debuffs on you which will help the brig do the last damag.</p><p>Take a Warlock who stands in front of you, casts his extra dmg buff, focused casting and that guarantated crit chance on next nuke. He opens up with a Rift, followed by Devastation and another stun/nuke/root combo.</p><p>Take a Fury who pops Energy Vortex who can nuke for up to 3k on people with bad resists.</p><p>Take a Necro who opens with undead Tide, followed by an Lifeburn.</p><p>Or take any healer type who have the time to preward/pre heal. </p><p>Sorry but imo the level range should be opened again.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The blade cuts both ways.  Ever have a group of greys own you?  How about a raid of them, all grey, come take out you and your mixed level group that you're trying to help through a quest?  Now imagine they get an extra 4 levels worth of damage.  That pack of 59's hanging out in SS can now go to 64?  You think it's abused now, try that situation.</blockquote>Hm...this is true...but even if you were in their level range where you could get the jump on them..chance sare you can still get owned. Though I understand exactly what you're talking about. Especially when you are in an on-level gorup vs gorup fight and all of the greys around join in.</blockquote><p>Wrong. Take a Ranger for example.</p><p>A lvl 62 Ranger can easily take out a lvl 70 champ brigand (ive seen it plenty times with my own eyes)</p><p>How you ask? Kinda easy. Get the lvl 59 treasured Bylze Bow, target your opponent. Now you cast both your dps buffs, go in stealth and open up with a snipershot followed by UNHOLY dps (including 1.5k auto attacks that can double shot). The result is 8k pure damage in less than 3 seconds. Rangers can do this in 'Antonica and Commonlands easily as those zones have 4 level pvp range. Now imagine it they could do this in all zones. Hell no please! Its enough that 2x lvl 58 could beat me at lvl 70 so easy, that i was close in doubting the overall rules in this game.</p><p>And i am not even considering greys grouping up.</p></blockquote><p>Not everyone plays super-powered Rangers now do they? Put a...Mystic in that rangers position...or a Necro/Conjuror. Hell, put a Guardian with god-like health. One class may be able to do it..heck, 4 of them. But that's a small fraction to all of the other classes.</p></blockquote><p>Ranger is one of so many examples.</p><p>Take a Brigand who casts his dps buffs and starts from behind with a good combo of devitalize, dispatch and double up. Bang you're half way down in your health and got powerfull debuffs on you which will help the brig do the last damag.</p><p>Take a Warlock who stands in front of you, casts his extra dmg buff, focused casting and that guarantated crit chance on next nuke. He opens up with a Rift, followed by Devastation and another stun/nuke/root combo.</p><p>Take a Fury who pops Energy Vortex who can nuke for up to 3k on people with bad resists.</p><p>Take a Necro who opens with undead Tide, followed by an Lifeburn.</p><p>Or take any healer type who have the time to preward/pre heal. </p><p>Sorry but imo the level range should be opened again.</p></blockquote><p>This proves my point you know. Aside (on occasion) A Necromancer, every class you just named has been dubbed overpowered.</p><p>Yeah...think again.</p><p>@Ladyvengeance- You are right, and maybe I stretched this too far. In higher teir zones it should be increased...but TS, Nek, Zek, EL, and instances below level 60 with these high level ranges aren't necessarily higher-end teir. Maybe they should change the lower-teir level ranges to 4-5.</p><p>Because I agree...65 can beat a 70 as much difference happens in those levels...but in teir3-teir5-ISH...8-10 level range isn't acceptable.</p><p>And no, the only time I've called a higher level was to kill the 60 standing at the gates killing the guards...and nobody came. Maybe just my luck, but I don't think it's very fair.</p>

[Bloodfa]

If a group of 59's attack me, I'm taking 2 or 3 down with me.  I'll die, but so will half their group.  Add in 4 more levels, and they'll roll over me just as efficiently as a group of 70's. 

[MokiCh]

How is level range a problem in instanced zones? There's no pvp in instanced zones, the range could be unlimited and it wouldn't matter one bit. I think you got rolled by a higher level a few times and now you're all [Removed for Content] and crying on the forums about it. I agree with those that said ranges should be extended again. I leveled a caster through unlimited range sinking sands, and even though I complained a lot about getting sniper shotted by rangers, in retrospect it was still a lot of fun. Shrinking the level ranges again would just cause way more problems than it would solve. You got rolled by a higher level, big deal. Get some friends or get some levels and then get revenge.