T2 PvP and why it sucks

[1000xZe]

The main reason it sucks is because new players do not get a chance to start. You'll lose population because of it.One Fix: How about some guards who will actually attack the opposing factions instead of standing there. Guards normally would attack opposing factions. This would give the lower level people a chance to actually make some money and get to a level where maybe they a small chance of surviving the initial gank. Currently most of these "skilled" PvP players with titles regen more HP and have Damage shield that hit harder than they do. It is the Fungi Tunic at level 1 syndrone all over. All they are doing is farming lower levels who really have no chance. It is actually quite sad really.If you are not going to remove level locking then make the guards actually does something.

[Hinosh]

<cite>1000xZero wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main reason it sucks is because new players do not get a chance to start. You'll lose population because of it.One Fix: How about some guards who will actually attack the opposing factions instead of standing there. Guards normally would attack opposing factions. This would give the lower level people a chance to actually make some money and get to a level where maybe they a small chance of surviving the initial gank. Currently most of these "skilled" PvP players with titles regen more HP and have Damage shield that hit harder than they do. It is the Fungi Tunic at level 1 syndrone all over. All they are doing is farming lower levels who really have no chance. It is actually quite sad really.If you are not going to remove level locking then make the guards actually does something.</blockquote><p>I agree, the guards should do more than just stand there and attack people who only come within about 5 feet. They should also have more than two abilities they mash at level 30. The PvE combat in this game needs work. All they do is auto attack for about ten seconds, Swing (guardian level 1 ability), auto attack some more for ten, Taunt (level 1 fighter ability), and right about here they're dead already...</p><p>But T2 PvP isn't all that bad. All the fights are not level 17 twinked character vs. level 13 new player. If there are new players on both sides, there's a chance that they will find each other and fight without twinks interfering. In my experience, there are more Qeynosian twinks in the Commonlands than in Antonica, and more Freeportian twinks in Antonica than in the Commonlands. If some people made level 11-13ish characters, untwinked, and fought in the enemy's territory, it'd show the new players that there will be "good" fights, and there'll be "bad" fights, in this game. You have to take the bad with the good. If the new player doesn't know this and is driven away from the game by the twinks that kill them over and over AND found some good PvP fights as well, we won't be missing much from them.</p><p>Still, the guards need to be guarding new players. Why else are they called "guards?"</p>

[Baldmonk]

<p>The Guards at the gates and the Q's caves I agree. </p><p>The ones in the Ruins, no way. That place is already a death trap stacked heavily in the Freeport favor which I already use it to my advantage. </p>

[Ze]

<p>Aye, the passivity of guards is a big let-down. They used to add depth to pvp, in EQ. They gave reason to gain factions and they made pvp a bit more interesting for the lower level folks - at least, if you played your cards right, you could see that higher level PKer getting hammered by guards... </p>

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Baldmonk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The Guards at the gates and the Q's caves I agree. </p><p>The ones in the Ruins, no way. That place is already a death trap stacked heavily in the Freeport favor which I already use it to my advantage. </p></blockquote>There are soooo many guards in the ruins. If you're a Q and don't have invisibility or stealth then you can forget about doing quests in there --- it's impossible. Guards need work almost everywhere. The ones at NQ gate are absolutely useless. I've seen freeps jump over the bridge on the other side and come across for a gank fest - they'll be RIGHT BEHIND the guard and the guard won't do anything. Definitely needs work.

[WasFycksir]

<p>Great idea.  Actually lets take it a step further, let's make it possible to HIRE level 95 epic guards so we can harvest in CL/ANT without interference.  In DLW it would be nice if we could cross-zone charm the avatars to protect us...now that would be a real improvement in the game and it would give Coercers a fighting chance too.</p><p>Maybe a epic length quest should be put in, the reward, summon Nagafen as a pet!!!  The summoning would take 4 concentration slots though, so it would be balanced.  The quest should be attainable at lev 20, and finishable solo, at lev 32, now that would be a reason not to level lock.</p><p>Or maybe in the upcomping expansion we could all get a spell called "Bubble-Boy".  When we cast it, it makes us immune to PVP attacks, so that we can do what we want PVE-wise until it's convenient for US to engage in PVP battle.</p>

[Ba]

yar the guards did add to it in EQ1 imo especially on the no teams server. Would be nice to see them reactive in this one too (on a no teams server yeah)

[Rattfa]

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Great idea.  Actually lets take it a step further, let's make it possible to HIRE level 95 epic guards so we can harvest in CL/ANT without interference.  In DLW it would be nice if we could cross-zone charm the avatars to protect us...now that would be a real improvement in the game and it would give Coercers a fighting chance too.</p><p>Maybe a epic length quest should be put in, the reward, summon Nagafen as a pet!!!  The summoning would take 4 concentration slots though, so it would be balanced.  The quest should be attainable at lev 20, and finishable solo, at lev 32, now that would be a reason not to level lock.</p><p>Or maybe in the upcomping expansion we could all get a spell called "Bubble-Boy".  When we cast it, it makes us immune to PVP attacks, so that we can do what we want PVE-wise until it's convenient for US to engage in PVP battle.</p></blockquote>LOL

[zaltar]

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Great idea.  Actually lets take it a step further, let's make it possible to HIRE level 95 epic guards so we can harvest in CL/ANT without interference.  In DLW it would be nice if we could cross-zone charm the avatars to protect us...now that would be a real improvement in the game and it would give Coercers a fighting chance too.</p><p>Maybe a epic length quest should be put in, the reward, summon Nagafen as a pet!!!  The summoning would take 4 concentration slots though, so it would be balanced.  The quest should be attainable at lev 20, and finishable solo, at lev 32, now that would be a reason not to level lock.</p><p>Or maybe in the upcomping expansion we could all get a spell called "Bubble-Boy".  When we cast it, it makes us immune to PVP attacks, so that we can do what we want PVE-wise until it's convenient for US to engage in PVP battle.</p></blockquote>                     Typical response from another " wanna be pvp`er "          Honestly dude , you might wish to remain the king of candy land forever but that`s not going to help maintain a healthy          server population.          How about this.          Maybe they can add a little consequence for the action of murder in this game that would curtail the concept of unsupervised          groups of little boys running around thinking their skilled at pvp because they can use group strength to harrass other players          due to the fact that in their infinite wisdom they forgot to implement any meaningful  consequences for dishonorable killing.          In fact this is probably one if not the only game on the market that has no consequence for murder and rewards, rather than punishes          bad player behavior, an environment that actually encourages grief upon others. Never mind that people are paying good money to play          the entire game , correct me if I am wrong but isn`t there also some PVE content involved in the game? Or did you just fabricate the          idea in your own mind that because a particular server happens to be pvp enabled that it had become your own personal playground          designed specifically for the purpose of allowing you to harass people in order to satisfy some sadistic tendencies you possess .          Most if not all mmorpg`s have pvp systems that function on the principal of honorable/dishonorable player killing and have specific actions          in place in order to prevent the type of scenario that unfolds regularly in EQ 2. If they had taken the thought to implement a functional pvp          system in the first place , there  would be no debates about level locking , guards , titles or anything else. The so called consequence for          dishonorable kills in this game is a joke.          You see there is a difference between PVP = player versus player and PK = player killing and this game is about 90 % player killing.          Usually it works like this .          If you attack a player and they do not fight back and you kill them it counts as murder = a dishonorable kill. PK          If you are attacked by another player and fight them and kill them it counts as self defense = honorable kill. PVP          If you attack another player and they consent to engage and you kill them this is counted as an honorable kill. PVP           Some of the consequences I`ve seen for to many murders can range from being sent to a prison , to not being able to buy from          merchants , gaining bad karma or bad titles , to losing exp etc. among others and they all allow you the option to work off your          murder debt through pve killing.          The same people always want to mouth off to everyone about how they should go to the pve servers and call them care bears but the           truth is that you play here because it`s easy . You think your playing a hard core pvp game but in reality , any game that just hands          you all the status , fame  , titles and rewards for murdering other players without any punishment is really no challenge at all.          Try playing a real pvp game that has a consequence to every action you take and requires you to make decisions about your targets          that will have an effect on the entire game instead of a game that allows you to camp spawns and grief anyone who comes along          from the safety of your gank group and then rewards you with a lame title that you really don`t deserve in the first place.          You don`t want pvp , you want an easy game that allows you to freely murder anyone without any challenges.                             

[wellehad0]

<cite>1000xZero wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main reason it sucks is because new players do not get a chance to start. You'll lose population because of it.One Fix: How about some guards who will actually attack the opposing factions instead of standing there. Guards normally would attack opposing factions. This would give the lower level people a chance to actually make some money and get to a level where maybe they a small chance of surviving the initial gank. Currently most of these "skilled" PvP players with titles regen more HP and have Damage shield that hit harder than they do. It is the Fungi Tunic at level 1 syndrone all over. All they are doing is farming lower levels who really have no chance. It is actually quite sad really.If you are not going to remove level locking then make the guards actually does something.</blockquote><p>ok so you say the will start to loose players hmm bet my life on it that the game will loose more players if there was no t2 PVP... people who play on a pvp server do it for PVP not PVE you cant want a little of both.. also the time it took you to write this post you could have almost been out of t2.. spend the 3 hours or less it takes and poof no more t2... most of the poeple who complain are twinks getting pwaned by bigger twinks...</p><p>i think its best if you just remove all guards and remove immunty spots like the one in Gfay near one of the horse mounts where Q's can attack you but you cant attack back</p>

[convict]

<cite>wellehad0 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>1000xZero wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main reason it sucks is because new players do not get a chance to start. You'll lose population because of it.One Fix: How about some guards who will actually attack the opposing factions instead of standing there. Guards normally would attack opposing factions. This would give the lower level people a chance to actually make some money and get to a level where maybe they a small chance of surviving the initial gank. Currently most of these "skilled" PvP players with titles regen more HP and have Damage shield that hit harder than they do. It is the Fungi Tunic at level 1 syndrone all over. All they are doing is farming lower levels who really have no chance. It is actually quite sad really.If you are not going to remove level locking then make the guards actually does something.</blockquote><p>ok so you say the will start to loose players hmm bet my life on it that the game will loose more players if there was no t2 PVP... people who play on a pvp server do it for PVP not PVE you cant want a little of both.. also the time it took you to write this post you could have almost been out of t2.. spend the 3 hours or less it takes and poof no more t2... most of the poeple who complain are twinks getting pwaned by bigger twinks...</p><p>i think its best if you just remove all guards and remove immunty spots like the one in Gfay near one of the horse mounts where Q's can attack you but you cant attack back</p></blockquote>No, people who might leave or threaten to leave, are people who dont want a challenge and roll t2 wardens. Spend all thier "money" on twinking out op classes and get mad if they fix locking. Then, new players will stay and replace the lockers who dont really want pvp, but want to kill whole groups with thier freshly made op twink and play easy-mode. Thats why so many like yourself are getting mad and uptight you might lose that edge. The people who want locking removed, are the people who want a better game and better pvp.

[WasFycksir]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Great idea.  Actually lets take it a step further, let's make it possible to HIRE level 95 epic guards so we can harvest in CL/ANT without interference.  In DLW it would be nice if we could cross-zone charm the avatars to protect us...now that would be a real improvement in the game and it would give Coercers a fighting chance too.</p><p>Maybe a epic length quest should be put in, the reward, summon Nagafen as a pet!!!  The summoning would take 4 concentration slots though, so it would be balanced.  The quest should be attainable at lev 20, and finishable solo, at lev 32, now that would be a reason not to level lock.</p><p>Or maybe in the upcomping expansion we could all get a spell called "Bubble-Boy".  When we cast it, it makes us immune to PVP attacks, so that we can do what we want PVE-wise until it's convenient for US to engage in PVP battle.</p></blockquote>                     Typical response from another " wanna be pvp`er "          Honestly dude , you might wish to remain the king of candy land forever but that`s not going to help maintain a healthy          server population.          How about this.          Maybe they can add a little consequence for the action of murder in this game that would curtail the concept of unsupervised          groups of little boys running around thinking their skilled at pvp because they can use group strength to harrass other players          due to the fact that in their infinite wisdom they forgot to implement any meaningful  consequences for dishonorable killing.          In fact this is probably one if not the only game on the market that has no consequence for murder and rewards, rather than punishes          bad player behavior, an environment that actually encourages grief upon others. Never mind that people are paying good money to play          the entire game , correct me if I am wrong but isn`t there also some PVE content involved in the game? Or did you just fabricate the          idea in your own mind that because a particular server happens to be pvp enabled that it had become your own personal playground          designed specifically for the purpose of allowing you to harass people in order to satisfy some sadistic tendencies you possess .          Most if not all mmorpg`s have pvp systems that function on the principal of honorable/dishonorable player killing and have specific actions          in place in order to prevent the type of scenario that unfolds regularly in EQ 2. If they had taken the thought to implement a functional pvp          system in the first place , there  would be no debates about level locking , guards , titles or anything else. The so called consequence for          dishonorable kills in this game is a joke.          You see there is a difference between PVP = player versus player and PK = player killing and this game is about 90 % player killing.          Usually it works like this .          If you attack a player and they do not fight back and you kill them it counts as murder = a dishonorable kill. PK          If you are attacked by another player and fight them and kill them it counts as self defense = honorable kill. PVP          If you attack another player and they consent to engage and you kill them this is counted as an honorable kill. PVP           Some of the consequences I`ve seen for to many murders can range from being sent to a prison , to not being able to buy from          merchants , gaining bad karma or bad titles , to losing exp etc. among others and they all allow you the option to work off your          murder debt through pve killing.          The same people always want to mouth off to everyone about how they should go to the pve servers and call them care bears but the           truth is that you play here because it`s easy . You think your playing a hard core pvp game but in reality , any game that just hands          you all the status , fame  , titles and rewards for murdering other players without any punishment is really no challenge at all.          Try playing a real pvp game that has a consequence to every action you take and requires you to make decisions about your targets          that will have an effect on the entire game instead of a game that allows you to camp spawns and grief anyone who comes along          from the safety of your gank group and then rewards you with a lame title that you really don`t deserve in the first place.          You don`t want pvp , you want an easy game that allows you to freely murder anyone without any challenges.                              </blockquote><p>First off, I am not sure that you understood that my post was pure sarcasm.  I realize that it is sometimes hard to detect with just text.</p><p>Second, the only PVE I do is a necessary evil to gain AA.  I haven't experienced for the sake of it since I learned about level locking about a month (a month too late) after starting on Nagafen.  Prior to that I had many toons including a fairly well equiped (then anyway) lev 70 fury/lev 70 alchy on Mistmoore.  I have not played any of my PVE toons for more than a few minutes in over a year.</p><p>Third, since it is not possible to hit pause in this game, it is not possible to stop your or your opponents actions to determine if they are a "worthy" kill, especially in your eyes.  I do understand some of your points on honorable vs. dishonorable kills, but the fact of the matter is, as you correctly point out, that system does not exist in EQ2.  So we must all adhere to the kill or be killed dictum in EQ2.  As far as ganking goes, well if you are a valid target, expect to get killed.  It really is that simple.</p><p>Fourth, you seem to really be concerned with the whole morality of kills in game.  That whole premise is flawed because this no real world harm being caused.  Unless you consider a small loss of time to be true harm.  Loss of electronic coin/items cannot be considered, as they only exist in game.  And since it is impossible to determine your opponents motivation for playing the game you cannot state for certain they do not enjoy battles of any sort and therefore you cannot make a judgement ahead of a battle whether they would mind engaging.  They may in fact be looking for a challenging fight?!?!?</p><p>Fifth, is an unavoidable truism.  Any player that starts before another player in any game will likely have an advantage over the newer player.  Because of this the newer player will, at least for a time, be at a disadvantage.  But since we all play within the exact same game mechanics (cheaters exist I know) the playing field for those same two players will eventually become closer to even, with some effort of course.  And there is the rub.  Many of the newer players are understandable frustrated because they get womped on by the current player base.  These players often whine and moan about twinks because well, they would rather whine and moan than put in some time and create a powerful toon.  It's often just plain laziness imo.  And have you ever noticed noone complains about GROUPING with a twink, it's only an issue when you get beat on by one.</p><p>As a side note it doesn't help when SOE changes things mid-stream either, often creating an artificial imbalance that didn't exist before.  For example when people could get experience debt to increase the exp. vs. AA ratio that new players cannot do now.  They actually gimped newer players (toons) when they did that /chuckle.</p><p>Sixth, relax dude it's only a stupid video game.  I too have decided to spend some of my free time in game, but really it's just not that important in any of our lives, take care.</p>