Should exp debt mean more?

[littleman17]

<p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [Removed for Content]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p>

[Skua]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote>sigh another topic.....poor dead horse.....

[MysticoN]

i agree.. liked it bether before i started playing wow.. when all in the grp got xp debt when a grp member died. xp debt is way to weak and need a buff tbh.

[Menji]

<p>If you play dumb and die alot or group with someone like that it will not change, those that get alot of debt will always and those that play smart, well they just do.</p><p>Besides, I play with combat disabled so it would not mattter if it was increased.</p><p>I have played other mmo's were a class someone is playing is the same as mine and they have a massive amount of debt and say it comes with the class as many others say, but it comes down to playing smart. Either you do or you don't, the amount of debt doesn't change that.</p>

[Gnevil]

<p>talk about a subject that has been trotted out, beaten to death, rezzed, beaten to death, rezzed ... well you get the idea.  This subject has been done and redone so much that it's kinda a laughable subject anymore.</p><p>Yes death means nothing... sooo?  As many have stated if you want to punish yourself simply go out and jump off a mountain a hundred times, repair and do it some more.  Waste a couple of playing days doing absolutely nothing but killing yourself.  K.. feel better now? you are lighter in your wallet and you have wasted two days doing nothing constructive.</p><p>Now go get a group and finish some quests, and kill some mobs.</p>

[Menji]

<cite>Gnevil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>talk about a subject that has been trotted out, beaten to death, rezzed, beaten to death, rezzed ... well you get the idea.  This subject has been done and redone so much that it's kinda a laughable subject anymore.</p><p>Yes death means nothing... sooo?  As many have stated if you want to punish yourself simply go out and jump off a mountain a hundred times, repair and do it some more.  Waste a couple of playing days doing absolutely nothing but killing yourself.  K.. feel better now? you are lighter in your wallet and you have wasted two days doing nothing constructive.</p><p>Now go get a group and finish some quests, and kill some mobs.</p></blockquote>ok, that made me laugh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Halanna]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote><p>I'm rather new to the game, only been playing for about 4 months now.  I've seen a couple of threads so far saying there needs to be more of a death penalty, it needs to be harsher or more meaningful, etc.</p><p>What I don't understand is why?  What purpose does it serve to have high death penalities?  I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't understand and was hoping someone would explain why.</p><p>I like to explore.  Search around, climb, swim (ok, maybe not so much swimming) and just generally check out everything.  I get myself killed quite often through exploring, bad pulls, monsters tracking into my path while fighting, just trying to see if I can kill something, all kinds of reasons.   Sometimes the debt I get now is bad enough.</p>

[Killerbee3000]

lets face it...  low death penalty = encourages exploring and trying tough mobs, a high death penalty would simply lead to people playing the game in safe mode (read as: grind on geen con solo mobs till they die of boredom)

[Terron]

<cite>Gnevil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes death means nothing... sooo?  As many have stated if you want to punish yourself simply go out and jump off a mountain a hundred times, repair and do it some more.  Waste a couple of playing days doing absolutely nothing but killing yourself.  K.. feel better now? you are lighter in your wallet and you have wasted two days doing nothing constructive.</p></blockquote>It doesn't matter how many people have stated it - it is still a stupid idea that shows you have missed the point.

[Gladiia]

<p>I think the most meaningful thing about death is having to start over - not the game....but the zone you were in.  Lots of zones, and instances have you return to the beginning when you die, and you have to work your way back thru.  For dungeons this can be a painful experience, especially if your group wipes on one of the last nameds.  If dungouns all had some more (some already do) partolling mobs that respawned, then this could be a bit of a pain there as well.  Many of the higher overland zones only have one rez point, back at the starting zone in.  If they want to make a better death penalty, they could remove the extra rez points that some zones have, and add more respawning mobs to private instance.  I think that is a just enough punishment.</p>

[Beldin_]

<p>I simply HATE TO DIE.  And i still know most of the places where my characters have died. I even know where my very first character has died the first time, that was with level 30+ on the Zek Bridge. And my first characters, back with shard-runs and more depts, were mostly long time in the Top10 Kill vs Death, and also my newer chars are mostly in there.</p><p>I don't need extra punishment, to die pisses me more of then any XP-dept could do.</p><p>Also .. who cares about dept with 70 ? If it should really mean something then we also need the possibility to level down.</p><p>And also if you want that death really "means" something, play Diablo2 Hardcore, or simulate Hardcore-Mode in EQ2 and simply delete your character if he dies <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<p>God, hasn't this crap topic been beaten to death a thousand times? And it still shows up. What is the use of death penalty? None. No, it doesn't make people play better. You can turn that around and then you get what he said:</p><p><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>lets face it...  low death penalty = encourages exploring and trying tough mobs, a high death penalty would simply lead to people playing the game in safe mode (read as: grind on geen con solo mobs till they die of boredom)</blockquote><p>And that's the truth. I've seen too much of people camping at zones lines, grinding to boredom in EQ1 that I never, ever want that to happen again. And that will happen with harsh penalties.</p><p>Dunno, having to repair my armor hurts me enough that I want to avoid death, but it's still not that big to hinder me trying out stuff at least once. And that's a good balance. It's not my fault that others have 100 plat to spare, or have crap gear so that the cost isn't high.Anyway, why the hell does someone need a punishment as incentive to play good? Wanting to be a good player and to play to avoid death, no matter what comes with death, should be incentive enough. </p>

[Hardain]

Death needs to have meaning, it makes the game harder, as in it's current state EQ2 is too easy. Also it makes you think twice before you do something stupid, and main point is that if you die, you usually screw up and that needs to be punished. It was in good balance at launch, but now it's dumbed down too much.

[liveja]

<p>Asking whether or not experience debt should "mean more" implies that it currently means anything at all. The truth however is that it does not.</p><p>"Death" in this game is almost wholly meaningless.</p>

[Effie]

<cite>Hardain@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Death needs to have meaning, it makes the game harder, as in it's current state EQ2 is too easy. Also it makes you think twice before you do something stupid, and main point is that if you die, you usually screw up and that needs to be punished. It was in good balance at launch, but now it's dumbed down too much.</blockquote><p>I'm confused.. how does a harsher death penalty make the game <b><i>harder</i></b>?</p><p>Games that have harsh death penalties are actually easier... with a greater fear of death, players are far more hesitant to take on difficult content.. They will opt in favor of easier, safer content with a low risk of death for the fastest rate of advancement.</p><p>A milder death penalty encourages and allows players to try unconventional group setups and attempt content that might be beyond their limits.</p>

[ashen1973]

<p>How does adding more death debt increase the hardness of the game?</p><p>If I have 50% debt, does that make anything harder to kill? Or does it just mean I have to go grind out a cpl hundred more green mobs to remove the debt?</p><p>Death debt just adds another time sink, and I fail to understand how anyone thinks that timesink=increased difficulty. (the same people that call for more death debt normally call for harder travel, no vitality, return of tradeskill sub-combines etc...) </p><p>I am more than happy with the penalties for death as it stands.</p><p>I'm all for tougher situations and would love to see more mobs, with a higher level of AI, that require a more tactical approach.</p><p>Myself, I like to attempt instances/dungeons/encounters with a less than perfect group setup or try and see just how high a level mob I can solo. These things give me a sense of achievement when I am succesfull.</p><p>If you want to increase the timesink for yourself, then turn of combat xp for every alternate 10 kills. Don't use spires/bells/ports when you can run across a zone instead. When crafting make 5 items and sell 4 to the merchant for every item you want to keep. All of these will add to the timesink and not effect those of us that are happy with the way the game is.</p>

[Bramwe]

The cost of repairing my gear is enough of a debt...some nights it almost reaches a plat.

[Lasai]

<p>Like a previous poster, I don't need a game penalty foisted upon me, getting killed makes me livid, I absolutely hate it, and broken gear makes me twitch.</p><p>The problem with harsh penalties is that they overly punish.  Too many deaths happen due to lag, "a critical error occured when requesting X memory", disconnects, server blips, whatever.  </p><p>Harsh penalties overly penalize the actual adventurer, the ones learning a zone, exploring, doing instances sans walkthroughs and cheatsheets, people doing tough content and challenges.  </p><p>Harsh penalties encourage "no risk" gameplay, overleveling for content, taking safe approaches for everything.</p><p>There are drawbacks to minor death penalties, people using death as transport, people not caring, etc, but, as with a lot of things you can't impose playing with "Class" as a game mechanic.  No matter what, people will cheese, not care, or be stupid.  Huge death penalties won't fix that.</p>

[orchard54]

If you want a harsher death penalty go jump off a cliff in real life. And then tell me your complaints.

[einar4]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote><p> For what reason, in order to make your gameplay to be enjoyable, do you want to have penalities on others?  If this is for your challenge, then here is what you do:  Everything you die, turn off your combat experience for 24 hours of in game real time.   You can then tell others in level chat how wonderful it is, and they will soon do the same.  It will be a massively popular practice in not time.  THere is no need to have SOE change anything at all.  </p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How does adding more death debt increase the hardness of the game?</p><p>If I have 50% debt, does that make anything harder to kill? Or does it just mean I have to go grind out a cpl hundred more green mobs to remove the debt?</p></blockquote><p>Some people will simply never learn that more grind and longer camping doesn't has anything to do with "harder".</p><p>They will also never learn that a lot of people want to have FUN in a game, and not just HARD WORK. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>If they want punishment for every little failure they should maybe join the army where the Seargent will grind the [Removed for Content] out of them for ever little error <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[UlteriorModem]

<p>Hrm.... time to discuss this again ?</p><p>Death...</p><p>Lost time & Money ... run to a mender.</p><p>Lost time ... Recasting all your buffs</p><p>Lost time .. Running back to wherever you were.</p><p>Lost time .. Paying off XP debt when you could be earning XP</p><p>For solo players its a pita for grouped players its just the xp debt and recasting (if you got someone whom can repair with you).</p><p>Sooo should there be a different penalty for a grouped player vs a solo player ? Oh... I can hear the whining now.</p>

[Kir]

<p>I vote for a harsher Forum penalty.</p><p>You post another topic that has been covered 80000x times before and you get banned for 2 weeks.  Do it again, a month, again permanent.  (forum ban not game)  Seriously, if you want to discuss a topic thats been done 15 times a month, do it in one of the hundred other posts that cover this topic.</p>

[JackBurtonBTLC]

<p>Some people just want to play a video game and chat (similar to doing nickle slots) so having no real death penalty is perfect for them. This lends itself to my next comment which is Game play design really comes down to, "what does SOE want from this game?" and I'll tell ya. Money......</p><p>Money Money Money Money Money and MONEY!</p><p>If dumbing down the game and making it easier gets more players (ALA WOW) and thus more money, then clearly goal acheived.  As a reciprical example, look at vanguard. This is an amazing game, sure it was about 50% completed when it went live, but the game is awesome in every way, including hardness. My semi point being, I sure wish the game would have come out from the gate 100% bug free as it would be an interesting case to see if it would have still flopped due to the hardness of the game.  I think that if had been flawless out of the gate, it still would have had a small audience. Thus goal not really achieved, if what the company is trying to do is to get a "cash cow" going.</p><p>anyway beyond the soapbox, my personal opition is that the DP system is too weak in EQ2 but I like having players to play with (well the mature ones anyway). What are ya to do.... </p><p>So.....guess I'll join the rest and  go run through some more mob camps waving my arms and singing "Fra lalalallalaa" and if I die(which is doubtful), I'll have a nice laugh, and keep playing. </p>

[Kir]

<cite>JackBurtonBTLC wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Some people just want to play a video game and chat (similar to doing nickle slots) so having no real death penalty is perfect for them. This lends itself to my next comment which is Game play design really comes down to, "what does SOE want from this game?" and I'll tell ya. Money......</p><p>Money Money Money Money Money and MONEY!</p><p>If dumbing down the game and making it easier gets more players (ALA WOW) and thus more money, then clearly goal acheived.  As a reciprical example, look at vanguard. This is an amazing game, sure it was about 50% completed when it went live, but the game is awesome in every way, including hardness. My semi point being, I sure wish the game would have come out from the gate 100% bug free as it would be an interesting case to see if it would have still flopped due to the hardness of the game.  I think that if had been flawless out of the gate, it still would have had a small audience. Thus goal not really achieved, if what the company is trying to do is to get a "cash cow" going.</p><p>anyway beyond the soapbox, my personal opition is that the DP system is too weak in EQ2 but I like having players to play with (well the mature ones anyway). What are ya to do.... </p><p>So.....guess I'll join the rest and  go run through some more mob camps waving my arms and singing "Fra lalalallalaa" and if I die(which is doubtful), I'll have a nice laugh, and keep playing. </p></blockquote><p>I can only go off beta experience since I never bought the live version.</p><p> Vanguard didn't fail just because of the bugs, it failed in my eyes for various reason (at least these are why I never bought it). </p><p>You had to group to do everything, as an EX eq1 addict in the top two raiding guilds on my server, (Bertox, Phantom Raiders and recruit for prophecy before I quit) I had no kids back then, had no real job that needed tons of time.  Fast Forward to Present day, I have 2 kids, wife, had a full time job in the gaming industry where during crunch was a regular 15-18 hour day, EQ2 gave me something that EQ1 and vanguard never could.</p><p> a Chance to get quests done solo, an ability to accomplish tasks in small amounts of playtime.. and no real major grinds.  Why people equate timesink grinding to skill, ill never know.. but as others have said before, all harsh death penalties made me do was roll a second account in eq1 w/ a necro so I could summon corpse and rez.  All it did was make me never TRY and encounter I knew I couldn't win unless I had a group with me.. but it never made me feel as though I accomplished anything.</p><p>in eq2 I try things all the time I might not win, and you know what when I do, I get excited.. more excited then when there was harsher death penalities like in beta, where I would go "Cool I bet that would be fun to try" then walked away because I didn't want 2 days of debt.</p><p>EDIT: Wanted to add, I do not think WoW's total success rests on how easy it is to play.  Its initial success in my opinion was due to a) the franchise name and b) the company name.  You will notice there is a lot of WoW refugess in other games now that are looking for something new because WoW is losing its fun for them, but as any mmo'r knows its hard to buy a game, get into it for a couple months then bail mmo types usually tend to stick with their characters until they finally reach a point where they are fed up, or a company like SoE drops the NGE on them and they just leave because the game just plain sucks.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

Seriously, why bother?  The XP debt concept is a half-[Removed for Content] death penalty.

[KBern]

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Like a previous poster, I don't need a game penalty foisted upon me, getting killed makes me livid, I absolutely hate it, and broken gear makes me twitch.</p><p>The problem with harsh penalties is that they overly punish.  Too many deaths happen due to lag, "a critical error occured when requesting X memory", disconnects, server blips, whatever.  </p></blockquote><p>Exactly.  I HATE to die.  I do not need a penalty to make that clear.  </p><p>I hate to die on raids...with my main....who is lvl 70/100 and the guild pays for repairs.  No penalty at all, and I hate to die.</p><p>It wastes time.  I hate that.</p><p>When I solo, on my bruiser...I use FD all the time even if the fights are close...why?  I hate to die.  It means I failed.  I dont like to fail.</p><p>I hate to waste my time needlessly and I hate to fail at things.  That alone makes me not try to die.</p><p>If the OP and players like him/her do not have that same motivation not to die, and need some outside mechanism to punish them, then I feel sorry for them.</p><p>Failure sucks, that alone should be enough for most people who care about how to play, and if they dont care, all the penalties in the world wont matter.</p>

[Effie]

<p>Sorry for the derail...</p><p><i>Vanguard didn't fail just because of the bugs, it failed in my eyes for various reason (at least these are why I never bought it).</i> </p><p>If you never even played it past beta, you really have no idea why it failed. I played a Sorc and BM to 50. I saw a large active guild virtually implode in less than 8 weeks. Vanguard failed solely because it wasn't finished... and players didn't want to sit around with their thumb up their butt for 6-12 months waiting form them to finish the game.</p><p><i>You had to group to do everything</i></p><p>No you didn't. </p><p>By the time the game was released, there was plenty of solo content for levels 1-35. After that, you were kinda sh*t outta luck. Grinding an unitemized Ceros Isle or APW was about all there was for level players level 40+ for the first 3-4 months.</p><p>Vanguard is just as solo friendly as EQ2 or WOW. </p>

[KBern]

Yeah I was in VG beta and my necro and ranger solo's extremely well.

[Kir]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I was in VG beta and my necro and ranger solo's extremely well.</blockquote><p>as I said in my post, IF you played one of the two solo classes. You played both /grats.</p><p>As for the guy who said his guild imploded.. the game failed before the game was released my friend, your "large" guild of 200 players or so (guessing, even if it was 1k) was not the norm.  There wasn't droves and droves of active players, there wasnt' droves and droves of active servers.. it was barren and a wasteland.  Just because I chose not to buy it doesn't mean I don't have coworker who did and watch him play it (also a 50, but necro) or guildies who played it.. and all said the same thing.  Not many players, too grindy, and needed groups for most content.</p><p>Why?  Surely you don't think everyone knew about the bugs before they didn't buy the game right?  No they knew it was another grindfest group only game like EQ1 was and people are sick of it beside the small minority that actually bought vanguard.  THOSE small sect of people quit because of bugs, the game didn't outright fail because of those people.  (Well in a way it did, because you guys actually gave verant 2.0 the belief people wanted another eq1.. when in reality they don't)</p>

[Tare]

Everytime I miss the bus, I deny myself dinner. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Menji]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Like a previous poster, I don't need a game penalty foisted upon me, getting killed makes me livid, I absolutely hate it, and broken gear makes me twitch.</p><p>The problem with harsh penalties is that they overly punish.  Too many deaths happen due to lag, "a critical error occured when requesting X memory", disconnects, server blips, whatever.  </p></blockquote><p>Exactly.  I HATE to die.  I do not need a penalty to make that clear.  </p><p>I hate to die on raids...with my main....who is lvl 70/100 and the guild pays for repairs.  No penalty at all, and I hate to die.</p><p>It wastes time.  I hate that.</p><p>When I solo, on my bruiser...I use FD all the time even if the fights are close...why?  I hate to die.  It means I failed.  I dont like to fail.</p><p>I hate to waste my time needlessly and I hate to fail at things.  That alone makes me not try to die.</p><p>If the OP and players like him/her do not have that same motivation not to die, and need some outside mechanism to punish them, then I feel sorry for them.</p><p>Failure sucks, that alone should be enough for most people who care about how to play, and if they dont care, all the penalties in the world wont matter.</p></blockquote>Perfect statement.

[CuriousGeorge]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote>

[CuriousGeorge]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote><p>Again with people wanting to impinge on others enjoyment. Seriously YOU have the means to experience death any way you like. Take some personal responsibility and give death the meaning you want for YOURSELF. Some suggestions, if you die:</p><p>Repeatedly kill yourself till you obtain the experience death you want</p><p>Delete one or more (heck why not all) items from you inventory</p><p>Delete you character</p><p>Choose what you want. As for more extreme death penalties making the game harder I have laugh. That's not harder that is just more annoying.</p><p>I do hope though that one day developers will take your desires into account as well as those who disagree with you and make a game that allows the player to control the severity of death. Atleast then we wouldn't have these threads constantly popping up and would just have to deal with those claiming that were "elite" or "hardcode" because they had a more severe death penalty.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><b>Q</b> Should exp debt mean more?</p><p><b>A</b> Yes</p><p>Next</p>

[erin]

<cite>CuriousGeorge wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote><p>Again with people wanting to impinge on others enjoyment. Seriously YOU have the means to experience death any way you like. Take some personal responsibility and give death the meaning you want for YOURSELF. Some suggestions, if you die:</p><p>Repeatedly kill yourself till you obtain the experience death you want</p><p>Delete one or more (heck why not all) items from you inventory</p><p>Delete you character</p><p>Choose what you want. As for more extreme death penalties making the game harder I have laugh. That's not harder that is just more annoying.</p><p>I do hope though that one day developers will take your desires into account as well as those who disagree with you and make a game that allows the player to control the severity of death. Atleast then we wouldn't have these threads constantly popping up and would just have to deal with those claiming that were "elite" or "hardcode" because they had a more severe death penalty.</p></blockquote>He doesn't want a harder death penalty for himself, he wants it for you.  And me.  And everyone else.  Which is where I have a problem.  As many others have stated, I don't need a harsher penalty to tell me I screwed up.  I already know that.  Does it make the game harder?  As someone else already said, ummm no.  It just adds some frustration, it is no harder to play after a death with a big exp penalty than it was before.

[Torkema]

I think there are just too many threads for this subject.It's been addressed, debated, stated, confronted, etc. And we end up in the same hill, some like it as it is, others dont.I think all threads about this subject, should be merged toguether, so we can see all the pages and pages this has in it.And get discouraged of bringing it up again.Sorry for the rough mood, but it really makes the forums messy.Torke.Edited for typos (( When i saw i started the thread with "I THINKS" i almost aquired write penalty.))

[Vanilla1]

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Q</b> Should exp debt mean more?</p><p><b>A</b> Yes</p><p>Next</p></blockquote><p>Q Should exp debt mean more?</p><p>A No</p><p>Next..</p><p>There are games out there with harsher xp debt penalties. If people want that style of play then EQ2 is not the game for you. Sony changed the harsh death penalties because most casual players did not like it (shudders at old group debt penalty, and EQ1's harsh corpse runs). I came back to EQ2 as did many when they made this game more casual friendly. Please dont try and make this game something its not. If you dont like the current system, EQ1 or Vanguard are there specifically for you.</p><p>Ghostwolf</p>

[Andok]

<cite>JackBurtonBTLC wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Some people just want to play a video game and chat (similar to doing nickle slots) so having no real death penalty is perfect for them. This lends itself to my next comment which is Game play design really comes down to, "what does SOE want from this game?" and I'll tell ya. Money......</p><p>Money Money Money Money Money and MONEY!</p><p>If dumbing down the game and making it easier gets more players (ALA WOW) and thus more money, then clearly goal acheived.  As a reciprical example, look at vanguard. This is an amazing game, sure it was about 50% completed when it went live, but the game is awesome in every way, including hardness. My semi point being, I sure wish the game would have come out from the gate 100% bug free as it would be an interesting case to see if it would have still flopped due to the hardness of the game.  I think that if had been flawless out of the gate, it still would have had a small audience. Thus goal not really achieved, if what the company is trying to do is to get a "cash cow" going.</p><p>anyway beyond the soapbox, my personal opition is that the DP system is too weak in EQ2 but I like having players to play with (well the mature ones anyway). What are ya to do.... </p><p>So.....guess I'll join the rest and  go run through some more mob camps waving my arms and singing "Fra lalalallalaa" and if I die(which is doubtful), I'll have a nice laugh, and keep playing. </p></blockquote>I hate to break it to ya, but all game companies are in it for the money.  Even Vanguard was made to make money - it just didn't do very well in that aspect either <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bozojrill1]

At this point in the game i don't think it needs to be changed

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Degenerate@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I was in VG beta and my necro and ranger solo's extremely well.</blockquote><p>as I said in my post, IF you played one of the two solo classes. You played both /grats.</p><p>As for the guy who said his guild imploded.. the game failed before the game was released my friend, your "large" guild of 200 players or so (guessing, even if it was 1k) was not the norm.  There wasn't droves and droves of active players, there wasnt' droves and droves of active servers.. it was barren and a wasteland.  Just because I chose not to buy it doesn't mean I don't have coworker who did and watch him play it (also a 50, but necro) or guildies who played it.. and all said the same thing.  Not many players, too grindy, and needed groups for most content.</p><p>Why?  Surely you don't think everyone knew about the bugs before they didn't buy the game right?  No they knew it was another grindfest group only game like EQ1 was and people are sick of it beside the small minority that actually bought vanguard.  THOSE small sect of people quit because of bugs, the game didn't outright fail because of those people.  (Well in a way it did, because you guys actually gave verant 2.0 the belief people wanted another eq1.. when in reality they don't)</p></blockquote><p>Thou art uninformed...</p><p>Any class could solo in Vanguard.  There were tons of quests, solo and group.  More quests than EQ2 had in most level ranges, that's for sure.  Solo content was everywhere and small group content was soloable with a little effort.</p><p>Ah, I see you chose not to buy it.  Having never played it, what basis do you have to say anything?  You don't.  You are utterly clueless.  Vanguard has a superior class and crafting system to both WoW and EQ2.  It has a superior combat system.  It has a superior system for player owned property, such as real time housing, real time guild halls, and player boats.  I say superior because neither Wow nor EQ2 has these features.</p><p>However...</p><p>The game launched vastly unfinished.  The project had been mismanaged by McQuaid and Butler from the start.  It was/is buggy, laggy, and has massive system requirements compared to other MMOs.  There was crap for post-30 content and the dev team was unbelievably slow to correct issues and add content.  It still is.  The game was in beta for over a year, has been live for almost a year, and it's still not closed to being finished.  That's why Vanguard is in the situation it's in.  Until you've played it and played it seriously, you've no right or basis to make any of those comments.  You're basically talking out your [Removed for Content].</p>

[Frijoles]

<p>The most annoying things about dying for me are (in no particlar order) revive sickness (60 seconds?), having to travel back and (often) fight my way back to where I was when I got waxed, and the pain of knowing that I allowed my opponent(s) to get the better of me.</p><p>As long as these remain, no amount (or lack) of experience debt matters to me at all, because leveling experience is easier to come by than a politician's smile during an election year.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite></cite> There is still armor damage, which is harsh enough if you have good gear. That is sufficient, do you ask me. If the death penalty becomes too harsh, people will just avoid taking chances, trying hard mobs, grouping with new people etc.... where is the fun in that, really? I remember back when there were shards and shared XP debt. The trips to Stormhold was a nightmare, so I avoided that place alltogether. And if an XP group went wrong, the level of hostility and search for scapegoats was simply outstanding sometimes. I think removing shared XP debt and those ridiculous spirit shards is one of the best changes they've ever made to this game, and made the whole gaming experience far more enjoyable. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Sunlei]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I mean seriously... there is little to no consequence of dying in this game... I mean you could have like 100% exp debt and still level... what the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? In my opinion, this is how exp debt SHOULD work.</p><p>Say you are at 99.9% exp, and somehow get 10% exp debt. You must then earn 10% exp (how ever much 10% would be for your current level) BEFORE you start earning exp toward your level. This means no more leveling while in debt, and no more getting aa exp while you are in debt.</p><p>Is this a little bit extreme? No... extreme was soul shards. Yay for losing my shard in the bottom of sol's eye and having to camp my toon for 2 days!</p></blockquote><p> well you can play everquest one if you wish. In EQ1 you will even lose your level from deaths. You can even go all the way down back to the newbie lvls.</p><p> You also have to go to your corpse in EQ1 to get your gear back, as all your gear is on your corpse. Much harder than getting a shard <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>So if you want a punishing death that can cost you gear and levels, eq1 is for you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Vonotar]

The game is fine how it is.However <i><b>IF  </b></i>a shift towards making death more punishing is required (and I don't believe we need this) I would advocate that the emphasis should be placed on making REVIVING more punishing than being RESURRECTED by another player, or alternatively making Resurrection less punishing than Reviving.  At the moment the only benefit of being resurrected is that you don't have to run/fight your way back to the rest of the group.  In some small zones and instances I've seen healers not bother resurrecting group members because the player might as well revive and run from the spawn point.Possibilities include:- Gear Damage - 5% if Resurrected, 10% if Revives  OR 10% if Resurrected, 15% if Revives.- Spells - Buffs remain in place (are reinstated) if Resurrected, need to recast if Revives- Revive Sickness - No sickness if Resurrected OR twice the sickness if Revives