ok has anybody really thought about the problems stoping EXP lock till 30 would cause [Archive]

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wellehad0

10-31-2007, 01:26 AM

ok here is a point that little people seem to think about if they stop the lvl lock with the new Expansion yes it will help you get out of t2 without being ganked every 10 minutes but here is when it will hurt you way more then it ever did at lvl 10.... ok think of this you go from lvl 1-21 with the new race all in peace no gank sqauds no nothing say you even have 16-20 AA by then.. so now you ding 22 and your all exited you now get your next MC gear.. ok now here is where the problem will be worse then what ever happens in t2 in 2 good questing zones you will now be able to be attacked by (say it with me everybody) LVL locked 30's with 45 AA's so you think you dont have a chance at t2 against people 4 lvls higher then you now you get to see waht it is like agains people 8 lvls higher then you.. what happens in DL and CL will seem like the good old days when you think of the mass slaugter that will happen now.. now you will have to deal with giant groups of 30's ganking 22's.. all i have to say is really good luck even touching alot of zones if this happens because these zones will now be worse then DL ever could be...now i dont care if you are for or against lvl locking but you always got to remeber changing EXP lock only will delay a Worse slaughter.. wihc would then kill any thoughs of wanting to roll a [Removed for Content] new race

Greenion

10-31-2007, 01:35 AM

yes, i have thought about what it would do (limiting it to lvl 30).personally i think it a bad idea.i think they should drop the level differential on any level char that disables adventure experience in all open pvp zones (note : this does not produce a state of carnage in home or friendly city zones)

Tae

10-31-2007, 05:30 AM

Remove level locking altogether. Problem solved.

Mildavyn

10-31-2007, 07:34 AM

Agreed

Roald

10-31-2007, 07:45 AM

It wont be worse than T2 Ganking.The twink v twink fights will be better (more than just the same 10 spells/CAs)Twink v newb fights will occur less: Loads of places you can level.

Elephanton

10-31-2007, 09:46 AM

Agree with Milamber.Also @ T4 all classes already have most of their damage spells, which really helps with balance. Unlike T2 with healers being gods.

wellehad0

10-31-2007, 10:04 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wont be worse than T2 Ganking.The twink v twink fights will be better (more than just the same 10 spells/CAs)Twink v newb fights will occur less: Loads of places you can level. </blockquote>ok so you think 8 lvl lower ganking wont be worst then 4 lvl lower ganking.. how is that so it does not matter how good of gear you have 8 lvl's the resist alone would make you unable to fight... as i said once word comes out that they will stop exp lock till 30 then every single twink and locker right now will make a dash to 30 just to sit and wait.. so it does not mattter if you will no longer be a noob you will still DIE and die alot due to 8 lvls is alot to make up when its twink lvl 30's attacking non twink 22's.. noticed i jsut said no twink 22's that will be because since you no longer will be able to lock who would spend the money to gear up in fable just to have to change 10 hour max later.. alo how many real noobs do you see anymore.. 90% of new toons are alts 5% are people comming from other servers and 5% new people to the game... if they are new to the game and start on a pvp server that is there fault and they will have to do what i did and earn your right to PVP without being ganked... take my first toon he has over 189 deaths from being ganked by gank squads but you know what it made be better i learned alot about this game from thoughs deaths it was almost like a crash course in EQ2...also wha twould be the point in taking out lvl locking.. in games like battlefield do they have people stopping you from shooting at people who have worse guns then you.. no matter what type of pvp game you play noobs will die alot. we should not take out what makes this game great just so a small amount of new players can run around free... if you play on a pvp server it is to pvp then pve in your spare time not the other way around.. we have some people who think harcore PVP should only be at 70 i fyou want to just PVP in you spare time and dont want to be ganked then try a blue server out they have the areana then you can PVP only when you are ready... i hate to even compare this game to wow but look at a wow pvp server i was watching my friends son play wow last weekend he was a lvl 12 and was being ganked over and over by a lvl 19 so this game is not the only one that has people bein ganked....one last thing most of the people who complain are the ones who rush to lvl as fast as they can for each lvl not saying all but i have looked at the gear of these people and i feel bad for them most dont even spend the money to get the best spells they can for each lvl.. every time i see one of these people i ask them why are they rushing so fast and not buying gear or spells and they always answer because i lvl so fast i dont see the point in buying new gear... well that is there choice they choose to rush through lvls... what would be the point of being on a pvp server if you punish people with combat exp if they want to pvp.. that alone would kill PVP since you would no longer be able to PVP due to you would ahve to choose getting AA's or doing PVP.. i dont know about you guys but i play this game to PVP even when im doing PVE im always watching for PVP and it would not be fair to punish people who take there time with there toons just because you are in to much of a hurry to lock your toon and spend time making your toon the best it can be

Mutant

10-31-2007, 10:17 AM

I agree the OP has a good point. The question is if these rumors are true. I heard these rumors literally 3 months ago... so either someone is full of crap that started it, or they really get the inside info somehow way before its released officially. Regardless locking is becoming a big concern apparently from all these posts. I honestly have no clue what the best solution would be, but here are some other things to think about.Disable level locking until level 30 and:<ul><li>New players will get owned at level 30 even harder then at level 10, this time from players 8 levels higher with 57 AA possibly. </li><li>There will be players that inevitably don't like pvp regardless; it will just take them a few days to realize it, instead of a few hours.</li><li>The price of T2 twink gear may go way down, but it will still be possible to own level 10's with t2 twink gear that is even cheaper to get now. </li><li>Even if the lowbie twinks are forced to level, it's still so easy to just reroll and repeat, since everything will probably be cheaper. </li><li>It's still easy to own under-geared players before 30, all you would need is MC and a few AA's</li><li>Fury's are nuts in T4 so I've heard, (is T4 really that balanced?)</li></ul>A better solution imo would be to make them not pvp flagged until 20, that way one is still able to lock to grind AA and have a little more time to know their toon. But there will be problems regardless of the solution.I'm a self-proclaimed locker, with a few toons at 44 and 20. I got tired of the scene and unlocked recently. The most fun about it was fighting other twinks my level. I never grieved new players but there are people that do. As I'm leveling I see people 8 levels above me, grieving me (or attempting to) when I'm just questing with a few people, regardless if I'm on their recent and give them no fame. In the end I think the solution is probably pretty difficult to find, and the some of the player's behavior across all tiers is always going to be on the negative side, making the solution more complex.

WasFycksir

10-31-2007, 10:55 AM

I sure wish people would understand it's NOT THE LOCKING that is the real issue here.It's the risk vs. reward system in the game mechanics that's the issue.All this has been hashed and rehashed adnauseum.Just a brief list of some of the issues-1. The number of kills required to attain PVP gear is out of line with the reality of exp gain, especially without locking.2. The reward and lack of a disincentive to "uneven" fights. IE raids taking out a solo toon/duo's taking out groups/group vs group. A little more thought here could go a long way toward "ganks".3. Plain old lack of balance for PVP. And it's made worse by the fact that some classes are uber in one tier vs. another. The rock-paper-scissors thing can work, but the issue for many classes and tiers is there are 10 rocks smashing your scissors. And I am not afraid to say it.....scouts of any type still have too many tools for pvp combat.4. Some people would rather complain on the forums to get want they want than work in game for a powerful toon.5. Some classes are nearly broken for PVP, or at least so miserable to play it's just not worth it.6. Resists vs melee7. Zone layout is really really bad for pvp in many zones.8. And for me personally, I leveled up a fury to 70, was a guild leader even, did the raid thing, it's not for me anymore. I want to pvp and there just more, quick pvp to be had at lower levels.9. And now the world will be expanding yet again. Diluting the target pool even further, thus leaving scouts (track) even more needed.10. There are a ton more, but I gotta get some work done today...

10-31-2007, 11:07 AM

Completely disagree with the op. New players will have many more levels to get used to how the system works and have fun before the lockers have a chance to ruin the game for them. At higher levels where everyone has more abilities, gear doesn't make as much of a difference. Getting ganked by level 30s over and over again is wayyyyy better than gettting ganked by level 14/17s. Level 38 "levelers" will be able to come kill the level 30/32 twinks with little problem compared to level 18 levelers trying to kill the level 14 lockers.

Eybietie

10-31-2007, 12:19 PM

i´d like to say that i´d like to test out -let´s say a few month- what would happen ifyou remove lvl locking alltogether ^^even though i don´t see the problem about it. if you don´t likeit - lvl out of it. easy thing to do imo.

Aerlyn

10-31-2007, 02:47 PM

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote>...2. The reward and lack of a disincentive to "uneven" fights. IE raids taking out a solo toon/duo's taking out groups/group vs group. A little more thought here could go a long way toward "ganks"....</blockquote>I'm all for taking another look at the risk/reward system. Regarding #2, there was a thread called "Diminishing Rewards" that I thought had a good idea for a more accurate reward system for uneven fights. Most of that discussion was surrounding fame, but I think the same concept could be applied to other rewards, such as faction.

wellehad0

10-31-2007, 03:05 PM

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Completely disagree with the op. New players will have many more levels to get used to how the system works and have fun before the lockers have a chance to ruin the game for them. At higher levels where everyone has more abilities, gear doesn't make as much of a difference. Getting ganked by level 30s over and over again is wayyyyy better than gettting ganked by level 14/17s. Level 38 "levelers" will be able to come kill the level 30/32 twinks with little problem compared to level 18 levelers trying to kill the level 14 lockers. </blockquote>ok again how can it be better to be ganked by a person 1-3 lvls higher then you then 8 lvl higher then you..... mos tof the problems will start at lvl 22 and will not be fixed intill you get to atleast lvl 35 when you can start to make up all the AA you have missed out on a lvl 38 with max AA's and twink gear vs lvl 30's do you really think gear wont matter.. right now i have great twink gear on my twink 22 mele warden yet i cant even put a dent into lvl 30's because the massive damage they can do....there is only 2 ways this can be solved the first is keep it the way it is.. most people like it this way th elockers out number the non lockers 10-1second is keep locking and just make it where pvp is for lvl 20 and above.. that way if your not on a even lvl AA' as most people your lvl its your own fault it should not be punish the lockers because a few people want to rush to 70... well anyways not one dev has ever posted anything about this so i still think its a buch of bull made up by somebody as a joke and we all got sinked into it

boon515

10-31-2007, 03:12 PM

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes, i have thought about what it would do (limiting it to lvl 30).personally i think it a bad idea.i think they should drop the level differential on any level char that disables adventure experience in all open pvp zones (note : this does not produce a state of carnage in home or friendly city zones)</blockquote>Why don't you write a post on this? Just be sure to use small words and simple concepts so no one gets confused or somehow twist the point.

KannaWhoopass

10-31-2007, 03:32 PM

Because at lower levels where the range is 4 at level 10 11 12 when being ganged by lvl 14 15 16 . You yell for help and groups of you side made up if 19 , 20 , 21 cant help you . If you are being ganked by lvl 36 in a 8 or 10 level zone , 42 to 46 can come and kick their butts. combine that with the new characters having all spells , evac , and that many leves to learn to play the classes. You have a better opponent in a more dangerous environment. If you dont want that ..

MaCloud1032

10-31-2007, 03:40 PM

<cite>wellehad0 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Completely disagree with the op. New players will have many more levels to get used to how the system works and have fun before the lockers have a chance to ruin the game for them. At higher levels where everyone has more abilities, gear doesn't make as much of a difference. Getting ganked by level 30s over and over again is wayyyyy better than gettting ganked by level 14/17s. Level 38 "levelers" will be able to come kill the level 30/32 twinks with little problem compared to level 18 levelers trying to kill the level 14 lockers. </blockquote>ok again how can it be better to be ganked by a person 1-3 lvls higher then you then 8 lvl higher then you..... mos tof the problems will start at lvl 22 and will not be fixed intill you get to atleast lvl 35 when you can start to make up all the AA you have missed out on a lvl 38 with max AA's and twink gear vs lvl 30's do you really think gear wont matter.. right now i have great twink gear on my twink 22 mele warden yet i cant even put a dent into lvl 30's because the massive damage they can do....Iam sorry but only if you leave common lands or the other newb zones does the pvp range go to 8+. The people questing in the newby zones will still be under the 4lv blanket. They just wont have a 14 locked sitting there waiting for them to ding. Now that 14 might ding 15 and just lost the ability to kill the 10s. Not sure how this can be a bad thing.there is only 2 ways this can be solved the first is keep it the way it is.. most people like it this way th elockers out number the non lockers 10-1second is keep locking and just make it where pvp is for lvl 20 and above.. that way if your not on a even lvl AA' as most people your lvl its your own fault it should not be punish the lockers because a few people want to rush to 70...why prevent all PvP till 20? So they ahve no idea how to fight back. Preventing pvp untill 20 will only make new people cry more. How about we let them level up with the ability to fight back some how. well anyways not one dev has ever posted anything about this so i still think its a buch of bull made up by somebody as a joke and we all got sinked into it</blockquote>

Roald

10-31-2007, 04:04 PM

<cite>wellehad0 wrote:</cite> <blockquote>ok again how can it be better to be ganked by a person 1-3 lvls higher then you then 8 lvl higher then you</blockquote>At level 10, A level 14 is 40% higher level than you.At level 30, a level 38 is around 27% higher level than you.

HerbertWalker

10-31-2007, 06:38 PM

Or ya could leave long standing game rules alone, and when it's time for the game to die due to population attrition, let it happen. At least we will have had a ton of fun locking it up and wading through countless noob masses slaughtering them and/or staging sweet adrenaline pumping fights versus other twinks. Having done all those things, and believing that we still have a long enough ways to go before the game dies, that's my vote.

Zacarus

10-31-2007, 08:21 PM

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or ya could leave long standing game rules alone, and when it's time for the game to die due to population attrition, let it happen. At least we will have had a ton of fun locking it up and wading through countless noob masses slaughtering them and/or staging sweet adrenaline pumping fights versus other twinks. Having done all those things, and believing that we still have a long enough ways to go before the game dies, that's my vote.</blockquote> That’s refreshingly said. /agree-to-a-certain-extent However… SOE has the right, I’d argue the responsibility, to manage the game mechanics in order to increase, preserve, and prolong their subscriber base. You have to evolve with the times. Market forces will eventually dictate SOE puts EQ2 into maintenance mode. In other words, spending money expanding the game won’t justify the cost, given static or declining revenue. Like EQ, EQ2 will maintain a stable of devotees who get thrown an occasional bone, but nothing too sexy (read too costly to build). I think EQ2 is pretty far away from that point though. How many expansions did EQ have? 14? I totally disagreed with the removal of XP debt. I vented, and moved on. Months later, I can’t imagine having to run my toons into the guards again, dying to accrue debt, in order to max out AA’s. After that episode I cooled my jets, realizing SOE probably has a broader vision of the game’s roadmap than I do. (disclaimer, that doesn’t mean I relinquish my right to gripe from time to time). I think its awesome that peeps are so passionate about XP debt, Disabling Combat XP, ganking, griefing, zerging, and so on. Where there is passion there are players. It means SOE has something good on their hands, and I doubt they’ll butter-finger it. As for me, my EQ2 fun-factor-o’meter is stable, if not rising a steady bit. If tweaking the game mechanic means more targets, I’m happy.

othera1

11-01-2007, 02:36 AM

There is PLENTY of places you can lvl at 30... group in EL then theres nek/ts(i think) theres planty of dungeons like RoV theres most probably some isntsnaces

Kaspar

11-01-2007, 04:14 AM

I think what alot of people are missing, is that if they really do remove locking until lvl 30, not many people are actually going to lock at 30. That would be stupid, since you make yourself insanely vulnerable to the lvl 37-39 lockers with blood iron crafted gear and the lvl 35 EoF collection jewelery. Anyone locking at 30 just to gank people who ding 22 are gonna have a hard time of it, so new players probably run into the locker population until the upper 20s, by which point they're either starting to get a feel for their class as they are getting the groundwork of class defining skills, or they just suck and will get a hard lesson from the lockers, which is just part of the learning curve.I'm actually all for this idea, even though I don't think it'll actually happen. For me real pvp doesn't even start until tier 3 and doesn't truly begin until tier 4, so I would be happy to see it happen personally. I play in T7 though, so this wouldn't have any real impact on me though, but the thought of new players being able to lvl up with far less molestation is a pleasant one.

valkyriepc

11-01-2007, 11:24 AM

<cite>wellehad0 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wont be worse than T2 Ganking.The twink v twink fights will be better (more than just the same 10 spells/CAs)Twink v newb fights will occur less: Loads of places you can level. </blockquote>also wha twould be the point in taking out lvl locking.. in games like battlefield do they have people stopping you from shooting at people who have worse guns then you.. no matter what type of pvp game you play noobs will die alot. </blockquote>Except in a FPS there is no such thing as worse guns, just worse players. Point and click at the head does not = app2 doing 66% less dmg of a master1 and an adept 1 doing 33% less. No matter how good you play, you're gonna get dealt when the person is doing 3x your dmg per ability, and you have half his hp. In battlefield you all start off with 100 health and 1 headshot = 1 headshot no matter what gun you use.

valkyriepc

11-01-2007, 11:34 AM

Dacslogan

11-01-2007, 12:05 PM

well id say the biggest problem with the level locking is the people that abuse it openly to attack newbies to the server, having being on the recieving end to this having just come back to eq2 a month ago and deciding to roll on the pvp server for the first time all i found was chaos..... basically a typical session in DLW for a new char goes like this:make new char do lowbie quests harvest stuff get as many quests done as poss ding lv 10go out further afield to tvar op after dinging 10 get rolled by a gank groupdo a few questsget rolled by a gank grouprinse and repeat.ofc if you manage to press on and get through the level locked t2 hell you will find things in the 20-29 bracket a lot smoother with less gank groups rolling around giving you time to gear up coin up etc.ofc the second time around id say im a lot more prepared having spent time gearing up getting the neccesary mc armor ca upgrades etc and despite the fact there are still a lot of gank groups rolling around they seem less inclined to pick a fight with someone who is well equiped.my biggest 4 pieces of advice for getting through or surviving in a t2 locked world are simple:1. Save up, bank often: when your bags are full head back to your city unload unneeded stuff into the broker and store any coin, useful gear in your bank, most of the stuff you loot in t2 fetches a nice bit of coin that will help you in the coming levels.2. Tradeskill, a recipe for success: why waste 50g on that MC blackened iron imbued sword when you can get the components and get a friend/guildie to build it for you....or better yet build it yourself! Tradeskilling can save you a lot of money and help you survive and compete in t2 and beyond!3. Group often, youll never walk alone: gank groups prey on one thing.... weakness and whats weaker than someone running around on there own killing mobs with there back turned? if you have the opportunity to group do so! you will find gank groups either avoid you entirley or will run in the other direction when they realise its not a 5 on 1 but a 5 on 5!4. Watch each others backs, communication is the key: keep a close eye on the 10-19 channel despite some of the gibberish some people put on there other people do give heads up on locations of enemy players giving you opportunity and time to either engage....or avoid entirely, if you see a ganker attacking someone nearby dont just watch the defender struggle.....help them out! despite the fact you might be worried about dying, guess whos next if you ignore it or try to run.....you! make sure to also update the 10-19 chan on enemy activity as well dont just rely on information coming in from others, provide it as well.follow these 4 steps and beleive me you will find the pvp server a lot more fun and bareable!

Bozidar

11-01-2007, 12:19 PM

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are also more t3 zones to lvl in and avoid lvl 30 lockers than there are t2.</blockquote>Let's say for example that there are lvl 30 lockers. So the pvp range we're worried about starts at 22 (the newb 22s).The zones i can quest in where i'd be exposed to 30's are:FG, SH, TS, Nek, BBM, CBK. I miss any?That six zones.. and they'll be paper machete to the locked 30's running around with industrial strength scissors.For the lvl 26's, exposed to 30's they'd have these zones also to quest in but they're not really viable:Ant, Cl, Gfey, dlw? Throw in WC and BB for having a couple of quests for ya. I think there are some quests in those zones that might con to a 26. a few. Mostly if you're at 26, you're going to be xping/questing in the six zones above. In T2, you can quest/xp in the ruins/forest ruins, graveyard/caves, sunk city/whateverqhas, dlw, gfey, cl, ant, wc, bb, fmg, valley of the magi. Oh, and the new area they release with RoK.There are more places to "spread out" and "hide while you quest" in T2, than there are in T3.I just wanted to point that out, as i keep seeing the same mistake mentioned over and over.

zaltar

11-01-2007, 07:26 PM

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I sure wish people would understand it's NOT THE LOCKING that is the real issue here.It's the risk vs. reward system in the game mechanics that's the issue.All this has been hashed and rehashed adnauseum.Just a brief list of some of the issues-1. The number of kills required to attain PVP gear is out of line with the reality of exp gain, especially without locking.2. The reward and lack of a disincentive to "uneven" fights. IE raids taking out a solo toon/duo's taking out groups/group vs group. A little more thought here could go a long way toward "ganks".3. Plain old lack of balance for PVP. And it's made worse by the fact that some classes are uber in one tier vs. another. The rock-paper-scissors thing can work, but the issue for many classes and tiers is there are 10 rocks smashing your scissors. And I am not afraid to say it.....scouts of any type still have too many tools for pvp combat.4. Some people would rather complain on the forums to get want they want than work in game for a powerful toon.5. Some classes are nearly broken for PVP, or at least so miserable to play it's just not worth it.6. Resists vs melee7. Zone layout is really really bad for pvp in many zones.8. And for me personally, I leveled up a fury to 70, was a guild leader even, did the raid thing, it's not for me anymore. I want to pvp and there just more, quick pvp to be had at lower levels.9. And now the world will be expanding yet again. Diluting the target pool even further, thus leaving scouts (track) even more needed.10. There are a ton more, but I gotta get some work done today...</blockquote> I am glad to see some solid input from this long time player. To add a little , most of these issues have been put on the table many times with no clear resolution to the debate over game mechanics. It seems that the pvp community is divided into 2 camps when it comes to the idea of what people consider to be acceptable player behavior , mode of play and reward / consequence boundaries etc. so to speak. IMHO a pvp server in any game would probably be best viewed as a "work in progress " that is an ever evolving process of figuring out what works and what does not based on user rants , player input and constant tweaking in order to comprise a system over time that best serves everyone with an interest in player versus player combat. Whether you are a player that enjoys running in a pack and destroying anyone in your path who does not have the slightest chance of winning but when facing a one on one without your group you turn tail and run away in order to preserve your title , or whether your the type of player that want`s a more challenging mode of game play and are strongly in favor of endorsing more equality among classes perhaps stronger boundaries or consequences for dishonorable behavior, non of us can afford to not be mindful of everyones particular desire when it comes to their own personal experience with the game. What may be right for some may not be right for others but we all have an obligation to make some sort of attempt to reach a happy medium that will ensure an enjoyable experience for all and maintain the survival of the pvp servers. No one has the right to demand that people play the game the way they want them to play it by by enforcing an overabundance of rules and regulations that stifle the fun people are having and at the same time , no one has the right to grief much needed newer players into canceling their accounts and leaving. If none of us are willing to compromise a little bit for each other , then we end up with a stagnant server populated by the same 100 or so players with the new ones going through a revolving door in and out of the game which could lead to certain demise of open pvp servers all together due to lack of participation and player interest which could result in non justification of the overall cost associated with keeping and maintaining the extra servers. Sony does quite well with the PVE aspect of this game and could eventually recognize the pvp servers as being more of a liability rather than profitable. People in the world of mmorpg`s are becoming more and more interested in joining the pvp aspect of games as they are recognizing the challenge involved in facing opponents that think and react with the human mind and having this option is a smart move for SOE but the people have to have incentive to remain with the game and not be driven away by a lack of supervision that causes them to find it to difficult to progress. Rather than "punish " the newbies we should try and encourage them to stay and become participants in the game. IMHO I don`t think that level locking has anything to do with these issues and obviously has it`s intended function in the game for other reasons , primarily to enable players to absorb as much of the content as they wish before quickly leveling past it which could actually take years given the vast amount of content in the game. To be honest , you will not find any shortage of ganking in T4 T5 and upwards , it`s the same game with a few extra areas to play in as opposed to T2 but pretty much the same stuff going on. With no level restrictions in certain areas later in the game , I don`t find the need for eliminating the lower level restrictions either unless it`s for the purpose of allowing higher tier players to assist their lower tier friends however , this could quickly become abused as well. Perhaps more consequence for dishonorable behavior would create some much needed balance rather than putting to many boundaries on players. So , if you want to run around being a little - - - - , then you are free to do so without anyone stopping you from playing the game the way you want to play it but , you have to realize some sort of consequence that goes along with choosing that path. Self defense or murder ? Kind of like real life. and kind of like most games out there except for this one.

HerbertWalker

11-01-2007, 11:03 PM

Yes, we should all curb our own enjoyment for the good of mankind.Someone complained that that dlw was chaos when they tried to do quests. That is exactly what I would want as a noob player joining today.I hate a dead server with no incentive to pvp. I want large amounts of killing going on, all over the world. And if I join the game today, I look forward to joining that chaos after I suit up with a lot of added difficulty during that process. Fun!New rules that essentially turn the world passive would be boring, or any step in that direction. I'm not for change.

Brimestar

11-02-2007, 03:58 AM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remove level locking altogether. Problem solved. </blockquote>I agree or allow T7 (and future T8 ) to mentor and PvP and let us clean house... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />

Dacslogan

11-04-2007, 06:47 PM

i was the one that mentioned about DLW being chaotic and at times quite frustrating, but as i also said once you manage to adjust and become more prepared the pvp servers become highly enjoyable and addictive.yes pvp servers are not for everyone and its always best to find out early on if you are cut out for the constant risk, but to get new players there needs to be some kind of way to tempt them in but still keep that element of danger!can only really think of a few ways to do this:make the guards actually guard.put side requirements on certain areas (not a good idea imo as it removes the danger element and kinda carebears the lower levels)groups/raids gain minimal to no infamy/fame for rolling a solothe lowbie quest gear increased in a few stats to make noob chars a bit more competitive than easy dogmeat.decrease the horrific amount of faction required for pvp armor (or at least stop us starting at minus faction with our chosen sides pvp faction.increase the pvp faction gains per kill substantially (with a big bonus for beating someone of higher con than yourself)more ways to gain the pvp faction (side related pvp quests much like the broker one that give a good amount of faction but not as much as actual pvp kills do)titles to mean something (title gains unlock new quests, writs, etc poss big jump in faction for gaining a title?)just a few ideas off the top of my head but im sure there are many more that could be thought of....but yes i def agree with one of the posters about the risk/reward system being quite poor at the moment and this could and should be the first area to see a fix!

ladyvengeance

11-04-2007, 08:15 PM

<cite>Dacslogan wrote:</cite><blockquote>i was the one that mentioned about DLW being chaotic and at times quite frustrating, but as i also said once you manage to adjust and become more prepared the pvp servers become highly enjoyable and addictive.yes pvp servers are not for everyone and its always best to find out early on if you are cut out for the constant risk, but to get new players there needs to be some kind of way to tempt them in but still keep that element of danger!can only really think of a few ways to do this:make the guards actually guard.put side requirements on certain areas (not a good idea imo as it removes the danger element and kinda carebears the lower levels)groups/raids gain minimal to no infamy/fame for rolling a solothe lowbie quest gear increased in a few stats to make noob chars a bit more competitive than easy dogmeat.decrease the horrific amount of faction required for pvp armor (or at least stop us starting at minus faction with our chosen sides pvp faction.increase the pvp faction gains per kill substantially (with a big bonus for beating someone of higher con than yourself)more ways to gain the pvp faction (side related pvp quests much like the broker one that give a good amount of faction but not as much as actual pvp kills do)titles to mean something (title gains unlock new quests, writs, etc poss big jump in faction for gaining a title?)just a few ideas off the top of my head but im sure there are many more that could be thought of....but yes i def agree with one of the posters about the risk/reward system being quite poor at the moment and this could and should be the first area to see a fix!</blockquote>Agree with most of this except for the title idea. Personally I think titles should be removed completely or you shouldn't be able to lose your title. I've lost Champion many times and it's annoying as hell having to run from slayers again. I also think (and this has been suggested before) that you shouldn't lose an entire fame point if you get ganked by a group of 5 wardens and a scout (a common group formation on Venekor). Instead, you should lose only 1/6 of a fame point (if any fame is lost at all).Anyway yeah - the quest gear you get from low-level quests is pretty useless. The gear in Gfay and DLW is actually okay, but the stuff you get from CL and Ant is absolute crap.Removing locking until level 30 is a horrible idea and might actually drive players away from pvp. To get to level 30 doing quests for max AA can take weeks. Now if you just go on a killing fest without any care for AA, well it would still take you a day or two, and if I was a new player I wouldn't want to wait that long. This scenario reminds me of playing Final Fantasy 11 online where it took at least 30 hours to get to level 10 - pretty much the minimum level where anyone would group with you. It was annoying as hell.

convict

11-04-2007, 09:50 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dacslogan wrote:</cite><blockquote>i was the one that mentioned about DLW being chaotic and at times quite frustrating, but as i also said once you manage to adjust and become more prepared the pvp servers become highly enjoyable and addictive.yes pvp servers are not for everyone and its always best to find out early on if you are cut out for the constant risk, but to get new players there needs to be some kind of way to tempt them in but still keep that element of danger!can only really think of a few ways to do this:make the guards actually guard.put side requirements on certain areas (not a good idea imo as it removes the danger element and kinda carebears the lower levels)groups/raids gain minimal to no infamy/fame for rolling a solothe lowbie quest gear increased in a few stats to make noob chars a bit more competitive than easy dogmeat.decrease the horrific amount of faction required for pvp armor (or at least stop us starting at minus faction with our chosen sides pvp faction.increase the pvp faction gains per kill substantially (with a big bonus for beating someone of higher con than yourself)more ways to gain the pvp faction (side related pvp quests much like the broker one that give a good amount of faction but not as much as actual pvp kills do)titles to mean something (title gains unlock new quests, writs, etc poss big jump in faction for gaining a title?)just a few ideas off the top of my head but im sure there are many more that could be thought of....but yes i def agree with one of the posters about the risk/reward system being quite poor at the moment and this could and should be the first area to see a fix!</blockquote>Agree with most of this except for the title idea. Personally I think titles should be removed completely or you shouldn't be able to lose your title. I've lost Champion many times and it's annoying as hell having to run from slayers again. I also think (and this has been suggested before) that you shouldn't lose an entire fame point if you get ganked by a group of 5 wardens and a scout (a common group formation on Venekor). Instead, you should lose only 1/6 of a fame point (if any fame is lost at all).Anyway yeah - the quest gear you get from low-level quests is pretty useless. The gear in Gfay and DLW is actually okay, but the stuff you get from CL and Ant is absolute crap.Removing locking until level 30 is a horrible idea and might actually drive players away from pvp. To get to level 30 doing quests for max AA can take weeks. Now if you just go on a killing fest without any care for AA, well it would still take you a day or two, and if I was a new player I wouldn't want to wait that long. This scenario reminds me of playing Final Fantasy 11 online where it took at least 30 hours to get to level 10 - pretty much the minimum level where anyone would group with you. It was annoying as hell.</blockquote>This line right here shows why titles need removed. I know this is not a title thread, but I cant pass up pointing out this sentence. Why run from slayers? Because you can lose fame? EQ2 pvp is all about running and getting away instead of fighting and having fun. People are way to worried about thier title instead of having fun playing the game.I usually run in a duo, sometimes trio and sometimes my nephew who is 6 years old plays with us. Today, my duo had an orange dread sprint away from us (2 slayers), we were green, c'mon people, thats getting really bad. To top it off, he wouldnt have lost fame, but then again, I guess people hug thier kvd ratio as hard as they hug thier titles.

ladyvengeance

11-04-2007, 10:16 PM

^Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant groups of slayers. Specifically, groups of slayers who love to gank everyone in their path. If it's just 2-3 then fine - I can usually take them out. But a group of 6? Of course I'm going to run. Now if titles were removed I would absolutely go up against a group of 6. I figure I can take out 2-3 of them before I get killed. I agree, titles should be removed, or at least tweaked a little so a solo player doesn't lose an entire point of fame from a gank group. The title system just encourages ganking.

Mildavyn

11-05-2007, 07:13 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would absolutely go up against a group of 6. I figure I can take out 2-3 of them before I get killed. </blockquote>Is anyone else seeing a problem here? You think you can kill 2-3 players in a full group of 6... yet twinking isnt breaking the game? Twinking isnt a problem, yet you can solo half of a full group? What? /boggle

Batez

11-05-2007, 10:47 AM

I fail to see the problem. She obviously has a bunch of things going for her. 1: Skill of her class as a solo pvper 2: Better than average gear and masters 3: Facing a gank group that is only skilled at killing solo undergeared targets and go nuts when faced with real opposition This game is about play style, gear and your opponents play style and gear. At no point should numbers be the underlying decider in the outcome of a fight (even if that does tend to happen in T7) A twinked out skilled player should always be able to kill some of a noob gank group. You also do not know what this said gank group cons to her which is another factor. My ranger can kill a group of bots solo, does that make me overpowered? No way, but my skill and gear is > a bots skill and gear which allows me to overcome it's number advantage. This works for players too. If i'm vsing a full group that likes to stand far away from a ranger, who do you think will win?

Tae

11-05-2007, 11:37 AM

<cite>Batez wrote:</cite><blockquote>I fail to see the problem. She obviously has a bunch of things going for her. 1: Skill of her class as a solo pvper 2: Better than average gear and masters 3: Facing a gank group that is only skilled at killing solo undergeared targets and go nuts when faced with real opposition This game is about play style, gear and your opponents play style and gear. At no point should numbers be the underlying decider in the outcome of a fight (even if that does tend to happen in T7) A twinked out skilled player should always be able to kill some of a noob gank group. </blockquote>One player should never, ever be able to kill an entire group on their own unless the group is grey. I don't care how good you are, how good your gear is, what masters you have or how terrible the group is. At T7 there is absolutely nobody who can solo a full group. There are those who can pick off a target or two from a long way away and evac (rangers) but nobody who can kill 2 or 3 of them in open combat. Nobody who would get annoyed because "oh I can't quite kill all of them". No matter how great you are, killing a full group all on your own is a serious problem and really shows how much of a buff gear/masters are at the lower levels. The best we can do is go 3 against about 7 and win, because they're bad at targetting. One person against 6? Never.

ladyvengeance

11-05-2007, 12:57 PM

^Again, I fail to see the problem. If I go up against a group of 6, and take down 2-3 of them before getting killed, so what? If I even take down 1 or 2 of them, it's fine. At least it wasn't a total gankfest. I still get killed, it's just a little more difficult. I'm not taking out an entire group - I doubt if I could ever do that unless they're all wearing island gear.This game is about skill (or at least it should be). A group of 5 wardens and a scout ganking everyone they see/track is not skill. The fact that I can take out 2-3 before dying does take more skill than they have. I'm not making any apologies for this.

Batez

11-05-2007, 01:13 PM

"At no point should numbers be the underlying decider in the outcome of a fight (even if that does tend to happen in T7) "I said that in T7 it isn't really possible for 1 to kill 6 but in lower tiers where it is more gear / skill reliant than number reliant a solo should have a good chance to kill a gank group with no skill. If someone has better gear / spells / skill / levels than you why should you not win? If you can't win with those factors what factors will let you win? Perhaps we should all be equiped with soft foam clubs that do 1 damage a hit and we can have epic 1 hour battles as the 6 people zerg the 1 solo player and kill that said player due to sheer zerg numbers. SOUNDS LIKE FUN TO ME!

wellehad0

11-05-2007, 07:50 PM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Batez wrote:</cite><blockquote>I fail to see the problem. She obviously has a bunch of things going for her. 1: Skill of her class as a solo pvper 2: Better than average gear and masters 3: Facing a gank group that is only skilled at killing solo undergeared targets and go nuts when faced with real opposition This game is about play style, gear and your opponents play style and gear. At no point should numbers be the underlying decider in the outcome of a fight (even if that does tend to happen in T7) A twinked out skilled player should always be able to kill some of a noob gank group. </blockquote>One player should never, ever be able to kill an entire group on their own unless the group is grey. I don't care how good you are, how good your gear is, what masters you have or how terrible the group is.At T7 there is absolutely nobody who can solo a full group. There are those who can pick off a target or two from a long way away and evac (rangers) but nobody who can kill 2 or 3 of them in open combat. Nobody who would get annoyed because "oh I can't quite kill all of them".No matter how great you are, killing a full group all on your own is a serious problem and really shows how much of a buff gear/masters are at the lower levels. The best we can do is go 3 against about 7 and win, because they're bad at targetting. One person against 6? Never.</blockquote>lol have you ever went up agaist a t3 or t2 maxed AA mele warden because yes we can take on full groups unless the group has a warden with them

convict

11-05-2007, 08:02 PM

<cite>wellehad0 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Batez wrote:</cite><blockquote>I fail to see the problem. She obviously has a bunch of things going for her. 1: Skill of her class as a solo pvper 2: Better than average gear and masters 3: Facing a gank group that is only skilled at killing solo undergeared targets and go nuts when faced with real opposition This game is about play style, gear and your opponents play style and gear. At no point should numbers be the underlying decider in the outcome of a fight (even if that does tend to happen in T7) A twinked out skilled player should always be able to kill some of a noob gank group. </blockquote>One player should never, ever be able to kill an entire group on their own unless the group is grey. I don't care how good you are, how good your gear is, what masters you have or how terrible the group is.At T7 there is absolutely nobody who can solo a full group. There are those who can pick off a target or two from a long way away and evac (rangers) but nobody who can kill 2 or 3 of them in open combat. Nobody who would get annoyed because "oh I can't quite kill all of them".No matter how great you are, killing a full group all on your own is a serious problem and really shows how much of a buff gear/masters are at the lower levels. The best we can do is go 3 against about 7 and win, because they're bad at targetting. One person against 6? Never.</blockquote>lol have you ever went up agaist a t3 or t2 maxed AA mele warden because yes we can take on full groups unless the group has a warden with them</blockquote>And you dont see a problem with that?

Eilonyor

11-07-2007, 11:25 AM

I believe that removing level locking till level 30 is a great idea. It will give new players and veterans the chance to quest/xp without being continually ganked by the same person over and over. Also for the new players entering the game, they'll have more of a chance going up against players that they are up to par on. Thus giving them a decent intro to how PvP works and how to learn their class before level 30.

Xzerius

11-07-2007, 12:39 PM

I lock my toons at level 9. Otherwise, its too darned easy to level and I end up out leveling my gear and spells before I can afford to replace them.If you dont lock, fine, thats your CHOICE. Play YOUR game, and let others play theirs.