Level locking change RoK [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Bozidar

10-29-2007, 04:18 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you guys thought feysteel was expensive and tough to find before? It could become the new blackened iron. Just in time for the new fall colors, too. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>rofl, noob. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Feysteel should be cheaper than ever. With the lock MINIMUM being 30, the "go-to" spot will be 37 with blood ore gear. DFC will be camped more than NQG -- AND THATS SAYING SOMETHING!!Folks in Feysteel will just be using it for leveling up to 37.. to own the faces off of the people who thought it would be better to lock at 35.(more likely, 38 or 39 will be the lock spots. at 38 classes get their upgrade for their lvl 24 spells which are really great for a lot of classes, and most classes get something pretty great at 39 as well)

Bloodfa

10-29-2007, 04:30 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you guys thought feysteel was expensive and tough to find before? It could become the new blackened iron. Just in time for the new fall colors, too. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>rofl, noob. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Feysteel should be cheaper than ever. With the lock MINIMUM being 30, the "go-to" spot will be 37 with blood ore gear. DFC will be camped more than NQG -- AND THATS SAYING SOMETHING!!Folks in Feysteel will just be using it for leveling up to 37.. to own the faces off of the people who thought it would be better to lock at 35.(more likely, 38 or 39 will be the lock spots. at 38 classes get their upgrade for their lvl 24 spells which are really great for a lot of classes, and most classes get something pretty great at 39 as well)</blockquote>I make weapons. And jewelry. And tailored items. And adornments. Works for me. Especially for the guys that's get weapons twice in the tier. More adornments = happy transmuter finally recouping some spent coin. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar

10-29-2007, 04:43 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I make weapons. And jewelry. And tailored items. And adornments. Works for me. Especially for the guys that's get weapons twice in the tier. More adornments = happy transmuter finally recouping some spent coin. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The collection jewelery at 30/35 is better than the T4 MC stuff. Weapons = a lot of good items that are better than MC (Stonepineblade, quested in Zek).Adorns though.. whoo hoo <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />When they get the steamfont cloak, check out the adorns that Provisioners can make. They're fookin HOT! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But yeah.. adorns of all types will still make money. And get your tailor to DFC, so that you can craft that the blood iron forge.(How do ya get weapons twice in the tier, though?)

Bloodfa

10-29-2007, 04:54 PM

Sorry, meant to clear that up. By weapons twice, I meant a feysteel one when they ding and another one they upgrade to. The two adorments for them is what I meant; crazy day at work. I've also got a Provisioner at 51. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ladyvengeance

10-29-2007, 09:43 PM

This is exactly why I'm not pre-ordering ROK. I'm going to wait until launch day and find out if I need to look for another game to play. What I would love to hear is how this rumor got started in the first place. I don't expect SOE to come out and validate or dismiss the rumor. By not saying anything they are in fact increasing their sales of pre-orders.

Golu

10-29-2007, 09:57 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is exactly why I'm not pre-ordering ROK. I'm going to wait until launch day and find out if I need to look for another game to play. What I would love to hear is how this rumor got started in the first place. I don't expect SOE to come out and validate or dismiss the rumor. By not saying anything they are in fact increasing their sales of pre-orders.</blockquote>Lol, quitting because you have to change one thing.

ladyvengeance

10-29-2007, 10:14 PM

It's a rather huge thing, especially if you've spent days of play time on each character, only to have it all thrown out.I don't want to get into a flame war here; I just want to know where these rumors are coming from.

Valdar

10-29-2007, 10:22 PM

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bangbangshang wrote:</cite><blockquote>So is there any truth at all to the rumor of the change in lvl lovking where it will be allowed only after lvl 30?</blockquote>If its true, I'll view it as a cop-out by SOE. There are so many other ways to alleviate T2 imbalance without removing a fundamental function that has existed since EQ2 launced.</blockquote>LOL, a fundamental function...

Spyderbite

10-29-2007, 11:57 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't want to get into a flame war here; I just want to know where these rumors are coming from.</blockquote>Prolly a result of the thousands of surveys filled out by newbs who canceled their subscriptions after wracking up 50 death counts while trying to complete a single level 10 quest over the duration of a single weekend.

Greenion

10-30-2007, 12:22 AM

i suggest : lifting the level differential if a char adventure xp is locked (roflz to include t1 imo) instead or removing the ability to lock in any tier.from 60-70 i think all zones are unlimited (if they arent the range exceeds the current cap in most situations that happen in the zones)so lifting the differential to locked chars would have no effect anyway...there is none or they are nearly moot for chars of that tier in those zones.i think most if not all of the zones of t6 were unlimited once.some might still be, im not sure mostly because i never pay any attn to the level range of any zone...so i forget sometimes.i think sinking sands is either twelve or ten level range...atm.a lvl locked 50 character can be attacked in sinking sands by a level 62 - 60 (again sry im not sure)...lifting the differential wouldnt effect much herethis is already very near what is currently the cap. the game is about to expand by a playable race and new newb territories as well as a tier at endgame and new territories (likely content playable by those in the mid 60's in groups i'd wager)in the 40s - yep it must be a 10 lvl range...i think (so above is 12 i think) so a level locked 40 is already attackable by a lvl 50.lifting it would allow currently a 70 to attack them...which is 20 levels higher than they are attackable by now. the amount of zones for this tier are actually i think fewer than endgame and beginning game (im not sure of it though, it seems that way to me)...how much will very high level chars really go into these zones to try and kill a gray locker anyway...esp if fame and loot tables are tied to con.in the 30s...this is the cusp of the range effecting beginner pvp players...a lvl 32 locker that can wear mastercrafted gear's range hits lvl 24 in thundering steppes and nektulos. this is the range that the "rumors" want to limit it up to...to apparantly aleviate the problem(s)being attackable by chars 40 levels above a character is a decent downside...as an exile i have averted level 70s in nearly every tier...ive been nailed by many also...but have actually successfully taken a shot from a lvl 70 on a level 14 and got away to a zoneline without dieing.you do have to be a bit hyper about watching your back (esp on a nonscout, which the lvl 14 in reference, is a fury)it is playable that way...lvl locked chars would have to pvp much smarter and less totally all over the place out in the open...allowing the nonlocked players having a differential being applied to still be attackable by them...but the advantage of the risk factor they (the lockers) are taking...edit> it wouldnt remove anyone's option to do anything - it would change the difficulty in doing some things...to varying degrees per... thing.

MokiCh

10-30-2007, 02:54 AM

I think it would be far more productive to remove the incentives to level locking, rather than the actual mechanism itself. Disabling AAxp when you disable combat xp would go a long ways toward discouraging level locks. Also, start off the Lucanic Knights/Royal Antonican Guard faction at 0, or +5000, and adjust faction requirements accordingly, so that lower tier PvP rewards are actually attainable without turning off xp. As it stands, with the amount of xp PvP kills give, plus vitality, quests, discovery xp, and so on, it's next to impossible to get any of the lower tier PvP rewards when you're of a level to actually make use of the item without locking.

ladyvengeance

10-30-2007, 03:19 AM

Ah yes, but there's an easy way around that. Turn xp off, do the quest, then turn xp on when you turn in the quest so you get aa.

Menji

10-30-2007, 04:05 AM

I hope this is not the case. Because it does not solve much, yes it stops the ganking of new players at level 10 only to move it to level 30.Without being able to disable xp till 30 it only takes 2-3 days to reach 30 and then the gank fest starts again for the new players.

bangbangshang

10-30-2007, 09:54 AM

<cite>Menji wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope this is not the case. Because it does not solve much, yes it stops the ganking of new players at level 10 only to move it to level 30.How exactly does it stop lvl 10 ganking? answer: It will not.Without being able to disable xp till 30 it only takes 2-3 days to reach 30 and then the gank fest starts again for the new players.How many levels does a person need before he / she is no longer "a new player"?</blockquote>

Elephanton

10-30-2007, 09:55 AM

I love to see this change coming, bravo SOE.This would solve so many problems for newbies, more people will stay in game, and we will all benefit from this as a result.

Mildavyn

10-30-2007, 09:56 AM

<cite>Menji wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope this is not the case. Because it does not solve much, yes it stops the ganking of new players at level 10 only to move it to level 30.Without being able to disable xp till 30 it only takes 2-3 days to reach 30 and then the gank fest starts again for the new players.</blockquote>Agreed. It wont fix the problem, just change the level at which it happens. Remove it altogether, then the problem will go away.

Killerbee3000

10-30-2007, 09:59 AM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't want to get into a flame war here; I just want to know where these rumors are coming from.</blockquote>Prolly a result of the thousands of surveys filled out by newbs who canceled their subscriptions after wracking up 50 death counts while trying to complete a single level 10 quest over the duration of a single weekend.</blockquote>thanks to new account managment website there is no more survey<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Bozidar

10-30-2007, 10:01 AM

<cite>bangbangshang wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Menji wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope this is not the case. Because it does not solve much, yes it stops the ganking of new players at level 10 only to move it to level 30.How exactly does it stop lvl 10 ganking? answer: It will not.Without being able to disable xp till 30 it only takes 2-3 days to reach 30 and then the gank fest starts again for the new players.How many levels does a person need before he / she is no longer "a new player"?</blockquote></blockquote>In my experience, until they start getting ganked in pvp in the worst of ways, they remain new players.1) I think "newbs" (read: new players, not idiots) actually learn something from failing in pvp fights. I believe this because when i was a "newb", this is how I learned.2) I think that griefing new players (read: killing them over and over again for no rewards) is the lowest of the low, and people that make this a habit should have thier toons deleted.3) I think we had a happy medium of 1 and 2 before EoF came out and the masses flooded to T2 pvp. Prior to that T2 pvp was alive, but not like this, and the AA changes just made the difference between new players and vets that much larger -- the AA cap was a great thing but still too little to fix this.So if they move the level to 30?Well, there's still going to be a trial for new players. They're going to get ganked in the lower levels because I know when I roll out my new toon for RoK i'm gonna smack some biotches faces in. PvP will still be live from 10-30, and it will be different than it is now - and maybe it'll be better.Maybe it'll be an enviornment where you run into the enemy during question, rather than the enemy coming to camp your quest npcs?I dunno.. maybe it's not such an awlful idea afterall. I can't believe i just said that.

Elephanton

10-30-2007, 10:14 AM

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Menji wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope this is not the case. Because it does not solve much, yes it stops the ganking of new players at level 10 only to move it to level 30.Without being able to disable xp till 30 it only takes 2-3 days to reach 30 and then the gank fest starts again for the new players.</blockquote>Agreed. It wont fix the problem, just change the level at which it happens. Remove it altogether, then the problem will go away.</blockquote>But unlike T2 with a few 3-button OP classes, on 30+ most classes already have most of their skills and thus can put a good fight to any other class. I am all for this change.

10-30-2007, 11:30 AM

This will be a a good change but I think SOE failed by not changing level locking a good time before the expansion came out. The t2 lockers can still ruin the game for all of the new players that try PVP when the expansion comes out.

ladyvengeance

10-30-2007, 11:36 AM

Some of you are talking about this like it's a fact and it will definitely happen.IT IS JUST A RUMOR.

convict

10-30-2007, 11:48 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some of you are talking about this like it's a fact and it will definitely happen.IT IS JUST A RUMOR. </blockquote>Hopefully it is a RUMOR, and the fact is, they remove locking altogether <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3 button pvp must be tons of fun.. Seeing that most lockers play op low level wardens, I cant seeany other reason people lock, other than to feel powerful at low levels.

Tae

10-30-2007, 11:49 AM

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Agreed. It wont fix the problem, just change the level at which it happens. Remove it altogether, then the problem will go away.</blockquote>Sounds like a good fix to me. There's no reason to level lock other than to stay in a tier and kill people, so I don't know why it's needed. The argument that getting to 70 takes ages holds no water when you consider that there are people who've been locked at 22 for so long that they have 30 days played. I think the biggest problem with level locking is that unless you're level locking too, it's quite a short journey through most tiers and you're not going to have the sort of gear that the level lockers have, nor all the masters. Meanwhile at 70 (80) you have no choice but to stop, and are going to have geared/mastered up to compete. Not to mention diminishing returns means that the gear doesn't have as much effect up at the high levels. It matters, but it's not the be all and end all of your character. I still have many important skills at Adept III and wear the EoF set chestpiece and I do fine.

MaCloud1032

10-30-2007, 12:41 PM

Once you hot your high 20s you can start running diffrent instances. Prior to that most xp comes from open zones like CL. When you are out in the open you are able to get ganked or hit by pvp in and instance you are free from it. I can say that i got more xp in instances than i did out in the world. Also instances drop gear that will help them fight back.The main complaint i hear from lockers is why should i level up to get ganged in T7. Ask why would it be fair to be 62 and run over by a 70 in raid gear.I ask you this why do you see it as fair to be 14 in MC gear and full on twink and roll a lv 10. Ladyvengence you say you have a couple days played on each toon What is a few more days played to level them up some more?Are you lockers scared of loosing your advantage? News flash after the expansion all of the 70s will loos the advantage they have as we will all have to level. Our gear will be replaced in all of 2 levels.

Aerlyn

10-30-2007, 04:18 PM

<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it would be far more productive to remove the incentives to level locking, rather than the actual mechanism itself. Disabling AAxp when you disable combat xp would go a long ways toward discouraging level locks. Also, start off the Lucanic Knights/Royal Antonican Guard faction at 0, or +5000, and adjust faction requirements accordingly, so that lower tier PvP rewards are actually attainable without turning off xp. As it stands, with the amount of xp PvP kills give, plus vitality, quests, discovery xp, and so on, it's next to impossible to get any of the lower tier PvP rewards when you're of a level to actually make use of the item without locking.</blockquote>I agree. I'd prefer to see some changes that are aimed at the motivations of players rather than changes that are just restrictions that attempt to block the "bad" behavior. To me, it just seems like a brute force approach.

Gimet

10-30-2007, 05:08 PM

I, and most people I know, agree that level 20 isn't a huge deal for level locking to be allowed. However, 30 is simply way too much.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Bloodfa

10-30-2007, 05:13 PM

I'm curious as to why 30 would be "way to much". Honestly, not trying to be a [Removed for Content], I mean aside from the obvious "it'll take a week longer to get there". Is it because it's that much tougher to compete at than 20, or that the gear will be harder to get? Or something I'm completely overlooking? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Norrsken

10-30-2007, 05:28 PM

Gimet

10-30-2007, 05:34 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm curious as to why 30 would be "way to much". Honestly, not trying to be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], I mean aside from the obvious "it'll take a week longer to get there". Is it because it's that much tougher to compete at than 20, or that the gear will be harder to get? Or something I'm completely overlooking? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The content, let's start by leaving out the PvP aspect...In teir 2 (10-19 right?) there is content that will not affect you if you miss. Aside from enjoying what teir 2 offers, any items/aa you could gain isn't all that vital. Especially with the hard-core aa-ers who KNOW that at level 20 they can still get way more aa than their level. So being able to lock at 20 is not a big issue for most people. This will also stop people from "ganking" new players and discouraging them from playing early on.In teir 3, most people should have a relatively clear grasp of their class, and the content becomes huge. If you weren't able to lock in teir 2, massive amounts of aa would be loss and tons of content for enjoying the game missed. In teir 3 you have three major zones to cover. Thundering Steppes, Butcherblock Mountains, and Nektulops forest. Some of the most notable gameplay comes from teir 3 and it really catches people's enjoyment. However, getting from level 20 to the levelw hen most of this greys out is far too simple as you've said. You wouldn't get your fill of content, you wouldn't enjoy every instance, and you'd have problems with gaining AA, not to mention finishing quests that give good items. It would be a horrible loss to most people to stop level locking until level 30 than stopping it at 20. The content is much to large, and more level 20 content is comingwith RoK I beleive. It would be bad.Edit: Well, for me at least. I'm not sure if most people would agree with what I think about teir2. And I have been very bored from level 35-50 so far on my ranger. I personally think teir 2 is more filling. And honestly, why should someone wait 'til 70, soon 80, to get their fill of things.

Bloodfa

10-30-2007, 05:42 PM

Ah, well, there is that. Even with 2 full AP lines, though, a solo twink (are you still really a twink at 30, or just really well geared?!) is going to have to be pretty damned lucky against a moderately geared group with even a comparatively low amount of PvP experience. I can see raids fighting each other at the docks in EL. Makes me wonder if they'll also address the perma-immunity thing as well. You know, since this is essentially a wish-list until a dev comes out and says something one way or another. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

bangbangshang

10-30-2007, 05:51 PM

Sigh. What I fail to understand is how is this rumored change supposed to magically fix things so that this alleged mass exodus of new players stops? How many gankings does it take to make someone give up? 1 hour worth? 1 day?I contend that if a new player was going to quit, they would do so relatively quickly. Even if locking was removed, the new player would still be ganked over and over again. I don't see that the locking change would make any difference and using that as an argument in favor of the locking change is moot.It's the player that decides to stay that will be affected more by his inability to compete once he reaches T4 because of no locking. He'll have considerabely less AA and, unless he is helped, less gear.

Bloodfa

10-30-2007, 05:52 PM

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm curious as to why 30 would be "way to much". Honestly, not trying to be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], I mean aside from the obvious "it'll take a week longer to get there". Is it because it's that much tougher to compete at than 20, or that the gear will be harder to get? Or something I'm completely overlooking? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The content, let's start by leaving out the PvP aspect...In teir 2 (10-19 right?) there is content that will not affect you if you miss. Aside from enjoying what teir 2 offers, any items/aa you could gain isn't all that vital. Especially with the hard-core aa-ers who KNOW that at level 20 they can still get way more aa than their level. So being able to lock at 20 is not a big issue for most people. This will also stop people from "ganking" new players and discouraging them from playing early on.In teir 3, most people should have a relatively clear grasp of their class, and the content becomes huge. If you weren't able to lock in teir 2, massive amounts of aa would be loss and tons of content for enjoying the game missed. In teir 3 you have three major zones to cover. Thundering Steppes, Butcherblock Mountains, and Nektulops forest. Some of the most notable gameplay comes from teir 3 and it really catches people's enjoyment. However, getting from level 20 to the levelw hen most of this greys out is far too simple as you've said. You wouldn't get your fill of content, you wouldn't enjoy every instance, and you'd have problems with gaining AA, not to mention finishing quests that give good items. It would be a horrible loss to most people to stop level locking until level 30 than stopping it at 20. The content is much to large, and more level 20 content is comingwith RoK I beleive. It would be bad.Edit: Well, for me at least. I'm not sure if most people would agree with what I think about teir2. And I have been very bored from level 35-50 so far on my ranger. I personally think teir 2 is more filling. And honestly, why should someone wait 'til 70, soon 80, to get their fill of things.</blockquote>Okay, I see your point on the PvE aspect of it. Honestly, I don't think it has any bearing on the PvE servers and if it were left comepletly alone on the PvE servers I don't think too many would object. But on a PvP server I don't think anybody could honestly say they were doing it to experience the in-game content with a straight face. And it would influence those going for AP's, without a doubt. Some will say good, some will say bad, I'm abstaining from that one as it's sure to be a touchy subject. As far as filling, I don't think you'd be bored for very long with your Ranger if suddenly 30 was the new 14. That would move the majority of PvP up, and make for a more challenging fight all around. But then that's just my opinion of it. My Warden's in his 40's, so I'll be missing out on it with him, but my Monk ...

Gimet

10-30-2007, 05:54 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ah, well, there is that. Even with 2 full AP lines, though, a solo twink (are you still really a twink at 30, or just really well geared?!) is going to have to be pretty damned lucky against a moderately geared group with even a comparatively low amount of PvP experience. I can see raids fighting each other at the docks in EL. Makes me wonder if they'll also address the perma-immunity thing as well. You know, since this is essentially a wish-list until a dev comes out and says something one way or another. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I have a 29 Conjuror (Gimet) who once I get enough money is going to level out of teir 3...PvP is getting boring seeing the same people. I have a 24 Fury (Inuah) who will be staying teir 3 in place of Gimet for the major loss of PvP until 60-70. And I have a 42 Ranger (Enlocke) who is my EXPer to enjoy the game. Despite my account age being 750+ days not counting the expansions, I haven't hit 70 once in EQ2. I played PvE and had a swashy hit 32 (Jobu on Bazaar), and was introduced to PvP, ever since I've mostly locked in teir 3 for PvP. I would've been 70 on Enlocke but I lost interest with him due to loss of PvP, and the content after Zek slowly started getting sloppy to me. Like the Devs were losing interest or getting bored while they made it.But yeah...the life of me.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="40" height="37" />

Gimet

10-30-2007, 05:56 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm curious as to why 30 would be "way to much". Honestly, not trying to be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], I mean aside from the obvious "it'll take a week longer to get there". Is it because it's that much tougher to compete at than 20, or that the gear will be harder to get? Or something I'm completely overlooking? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The content, let's start by leaving out the PvP aspect...In teir 2 (10-19 right?) there is content that will not affect you if you miss. Aside from enjoying what teir 2 offers, any items/aa you could gain isn't all that vital. Especially with the hard-core aa-ers who KNOW that at level 20 they can still get way more aa than their level. So being able to lock at 20 is not a big issue for most people. This will also stop people from "ganking" new players and discouraging them from playing early on.In teir 3, most people should have a relatively clear grasp of their class, and the content becomes huge. If you weren't able to lock in teir 2, massive amounts of aa would be loss and tons of content for enjoying the game missed. In teir 3 you have three major zones to cover. Thundering Steppes, Butcherblock Mountains, and Nektulops forest. Some of the most notable gameplay comes from teir 3 and it really catches people's enjoyment. However, getting from level 20 to the levelw hen most of this greys out is far too simple as you've said. You wouldn't get your fill of content, you wouldn't enjoy every instance, and you'd have problems with gaining AA, not to mention finishing quests that give good items. It would be a horrible loss to most people to stop level locking until level 30 than stopping it at 20. The content is much to large, and more level 20 content is comingwith RoK I beleive. It would be bad.Edit: Well, for me at least. I'm not sure if most people would agree with what I think about teir2. And I have been very bored from level 35-50 so far on my ranger. I personally think teir 2 is more filling. And honestly, why should someone wait 'til 70, soon 80, to get their fill of things.</blockquote>Okay, I see your point on the PvE aspect of it. Honestly, I don't think it has any bearing on the PvE servers and if it were left comepletly alone on the PvE servers I don't think too many would object. But on a PvP server I don't think anybody could honestly say they were doing it to experience the in-game content with a straight face. And it would influence those going for AP's, without a doubt. Some will say good, some will say bad, I'm abstaining from that one as it's sure to be a touchy subject. As far as filling, I don't think you'd be bored for very long with your Ranger if suddenly 30 was the new 14. That would move the majority of PvP up, and make for a more challenging fight all around. But then that's just my opinion of it. My Warden's in his 40's, so I'll be missing out on it with him, but my Monk ... </blockquote>For the PvP aspect all I can think of is:Hot PvP teir changedPeople whining from being so weak without godly amounts of AAAnd being weak because they're hit with the real-PvP stick and not the gank newbie one. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Aerlyn

10-30-2007, 06:26 PM

I'm thinking that as an alternative to locking, the really patient, ambitious people will mentor down into tier 2 and 3 in order to finish quests for the purpose of maximizing their AA, provided that they have a friend or another account where they can create low-level throw-away characters to mentor.

Fleaba

10-30-2007, 06:28 PM

I think this is a wonderful change. To address the comment about lvl locking being in eq2 since launch.... That is wrong, actually they introduced lvl locking not to long before the launch of the PoF expansion.To address the comment on how easy it would be to just turn on xp to turn a quest in and then turn it back off......That is also wrong, you get experience no matter if your xp is turned off or on when you turn in quests....trust me I know from experience.As for the noobs leaving the game in numbers... Well, everyone who plays any game wants to win sometimes...thats why we play games, to have a chance of winning. However I agree that by the time they are open for pvp, 99% of the eq2 noobs haven't a clue what they are doing and still trying to grasp the basic mechanics, much less the advanced stuff involved in pvp. They stand NO chance vs veteran players in pvp..thus have little to no fun. By the time they hit lvl 30, (which takes a lot longer for a total noob then a vet to grind to 30) they'll have a much better understanding of the game and possibly have a chance vs. peeps in pvp. Perma immunity in EL or Zek?? Only if you've died and haven't moved a muscle since you revived, otherwise the moment you load up on the docks of EL or Zek your immunity timer is ticking down....

Aerlyn

10-30-2007, 06:34 PM

<cite>Olgar@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>To address the comment on how easy it would be to just turn on xp to turn a quest in and then turn it back off......That is also wrong, you get experience no matter if your xp is turned off or on when you turn in quests....trust me I know from experience.</blockquote>FYI, I believe the comment about unlocking to turn in a quest was just pointing out a loophole in someone's suggestion to not allow a person to gain AA while their combat experience is disabled.

Errol10

10-30-2007, 06:37 PM

I like AA's. It's fun getting AA's, and getting the new abilities and such that come with them.I'll be honest though. I had much more fun before EoF. Why? Well, Freedom. When I played with friends, we could do whatever we wanted. Could do some quests to advance, or do some grinding, or do a cool instance (nektulos was great). now though? Not really. If you don't lock, and level off of quest xp alone, you're seriously going to suck. Bad. no pleasure is derived from killing heroic mobs, as the reward is zapped to nothing. Or you can unlock, and be reamed by everyone in pvp. To me, it's a no-win situation. I don't really want to see level-locking killed. I'd like to see it just be an adv xp-> aa xp toggle, like in eq1, with the exception that, once you're at the aa cap for level, it pours back into real xp. No permanent level-locking, freedom to enjoy the game gaining aa by pvp, grouping, etc (non quest,collection whoring, etc stuff). I agree that moving locking to 30 or 35 is a poor solution. Granted, I think it would be better than the current situation. 2c.

Aerlyn

10-30-2007, 06:52 PM

As I've mentioned before, I think I would prefer making adjustments that will affect a player's motivation in order to prevent low level ganking or to deter whatever other kind of behavior we're trying to curb. But I'm curious, do you think that people would be deterred from ganking level 10s if, under certain circumstances, they gained nothing from it, such as faction? Would they still continue to do it just for fun?What if some kind of negative or detrimental consequences started to build up for a player who continued to do stuff like that? Can you think of something that might make sense? One thought that I had would be to somehow make that person a more attractive target. Maybe after killing so many low level people who have no fame or faction, a person would gain notoriety so that their death would award even more fame or faction or whatever. It might encourage some people to seek some vengence. However, several people have pointed out in other threads that it's easy for someone to escape retribution in this game, due to the numerous methods of fast travel.What about some kind of tracker that allows people to have an idea of where you are after you've killed so many people?I don't know if any of these ideas really make much sense. It's been a long time since I pvp'ed in tier 2 or 3. However, I'm just trying to think of ways to affect players motivation that might lead to a more positive game experience overall. Then again, if this level locking change does happen, then it probably wouldn't matter much anyway, since I guess SOE would consider that their solution to the problem.

Tae

10-30-2007, 08:10 PM

<cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll be honest though. I had much more fun before EoF. Why? Well, Freedom. When I played with friends, we could do whatever we wanted. Could do some quests to advance, or do some grinding, or do a cool instance (nektulos was great). now though? Not really. If you don't lock, and level off of quest xp alone, you're seriously going to suck. Bad. no pleasure is derived from killing heroic mobs, as the reward is zapped to nothing. Or you can unlock, and be reamed by everyone in pvp. To me, it's a no-win situation. </blockquote>I never locked and both of my characters had 100 achievement by 70.

SumOldMan

10-30-2007, 09:03 PM

I never level locked either and once i passed 20 or so, i was always Level + 10-15 in aa's. That doesn't get you maxxed, but you don't have to be maxxed to compete, and that all most people are asking for. Currently level 67 with 91 aa's, so its just about right. I guess the difference is lockers want a I win button against new players, and the rest of us just want to have a fair chance at winning ...

Errol10

10-30-2007, 10:36 PM

That's odd to me, considering even locking(almost all the time), I only manage around 1lvl:1aa - if I didn't, I'd expect it to be more like .5 aa/lvl, if that.

Norrsken

10-30-2007, 10:40 PM

<cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's odd to me, considering even locking(almost all the time), I only manage around 1lvl:1aa - if I didn't, I'd expect it to be more like .5 aa/lvl, if that.</blockquote>You should at least manage 1.5:1 aas:lvl when leveling on quests with xp turned off.Once you get into t4 it should be more like 2-3:1

ladyvengeance

10-30-2007, 11:01 PM

Yeah I noticed that as well. My 27 Necro has 40 AA (her cap) but those last few were really slow. The more AA you gain, the less increase you get. When I turn in a quest with her I get about 5-6%, while my lvl 20 wizzie will get around 9%. Back to the OP, I have spent too long and too much money not to defend my right to lock. I guess it really comes down to a few things. First of all, I really hate how some of you are dictating how people should play a GAME. I should have the freedom to lock and play the way I want. And let me repeat: I do not have a 14. I do not kill noobs if I can help it (at least not anymore). I lock because my friends are locked. Because a lot of the pvp (and it is fun pvp) can be found in T1-3. I don't lock to kill noobs, or to have an "I win" button. It takes a lot of time to twink a character. Finding rare fabled items on the broker or farming them takes months. I do it so I can compete at this level. So don't expect me (and many others) not to go down without defending this freedom. We were all noobs at some point. I got ganked a lot. It just made me want to get better. If the new players can't handle it at level 10, what makes you think they can handle it at level 30? If they quit and come on here to whine after getting ganked a few times then they were probably going to quit eventually anyway. I think a lot of the people who are complaining about this are just level 70s who want fresh meat. To me that just seems a bit selfish. So you want us to level so you can gank us in your raid gear and pvp armor? Well why don't you spend the time and make a twinked toon in T2-T3? These are probably the same 70s who were going around with level 10s OOC healing before it got nerfed.

convict

10-31-2007, 12:34 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I noticed that as well. My 27 Necro has 40 AA (her cap) but those last few were really slow. The more AA you gain, the less increase you get. When I turn in a quest with her I get about 5-6%, while my lvl 20 wizzie will get around 9%. Back to the OP, I have spent too long and too much money not to defend my right to lock. I guess it really comes down to a few things. First of all, I really hate how some of you are dictating how people should play a GAME. I should have the freedom to lock and play the way I want. And let me repeat: I do not have a 14. I do not kill noobs if I can help it (at least not anymore). I lock because my friends are locked. Because a lot of the pvp (and it is fun pvp) can be found in T1-3. I don't lock to kill noobs, or to have an "I win" button. It takes a lot of time to twink a character. Finding rare fabled items on the broker or farming them takes months. I do it so I can compete at this level. So don't expect me (and many others) not to go down without defending this freedom. We were all noobs at some point. I got ganked a lot. It just made me want to get better. If the new players can't handle it at level 10, what makes you think they can handle it at level 30? If they quit and come on here to whine after getting ganked a few times then they were probably going to quit eventually anyway. I think a lot of the people who are complaining about this are just level 70s who want fresh meat. To me that just seems a bit selfish. So you want us to level so you can gank us in your raid gear and pvp armor? Well why don't you spend the time and make a twinked toon in T2-T3? These are probably the same 70s who were going around with level 10s OOC healing before it got nerfed.</blockquote>Nope, dont have a 70 and I want locking gone. People like yourself spend so much "money" and time on your toons to have an advantage over everyone else.. What happened to the fun of competition? You are admitting you dont want competition because your spending so much "money" to compete.Dont get mad if you spent all that time getting an advantage over others if SoE feels it's better for THIER game to fix locking since its broke..

MokiCh

10-31-2007, 01:34 AM

I think it's less about denying someone the "right" to level lock, and more about making the game more enjoyable for everyone. It's one thing to get ganked as a level 10 fresh off the island. It happened to all of us when we started out on PvP. Yeah we got killed, but we also killed other people in turn. It's something else to be faced with fight after fight after fight that you have absolutely no chance in hell of winning because the people you're up against are so abnormally powerful for their level. And this isn't just in T2, it's in T3 and T4 as well. Someone just leveling up, wearing AQ gear and using adept 1 spells is not going to stand any chance at all against someone who's been spending the last three months farming Tseralith and RoV for gear and masters. To be faced with the prospect of either powerleveling past the twinks as fast as possible, or spend weeks harvesting, gearing up and getting AAs before you even have a chance to compete, is flat out not enjoyable to a lot of people. I don't think the level lock mechanic should be removed. If you feel like staying level 32 forever, because you enjoy it and all your friends are 32 too, by all means go for it. That's your prerogative and I couldn't care less if you do that. But I would be in favour of leveling the playing field and making it so that the new players had a reasonable chance of competing with you. You'll probably always have an advantage because of the time you invested in that little level 32, but new people should have a reasonable chance at killing you at least.

Menji

10-31-2007, 01:54 AM

Menji

10-31-2007, 03:23 AM

Here's another aspect to consider, making a new toon while having an existing higher toon, no big deal, he can send funds to him.Starting from scratch, without being able to lock combat, that will suck. Not just for new players who most likely don't even know about level locking, but someone with experiance that is new to the server.I have played EQ2 for 2+ years and recently rolled a few toons on a pvp server. I have not even been in a fight and have at least 30+ hours.I have toons locked at level 9 for harvesting, crafting and killing mobs for loot to sell. The problem is gold. Without being able to level lock then building a cash base would be hard. I don't sell rares, never have never will, if I didn't craft, sure.Even when I roll out with MC gear and adept 3's, I know i'm still going to lose, just not as much.Another option, buying plat, but I would rather earn my way there and not buy my way there.So will pvp gear be an option without being able to level lock in the low tiers?

MokiCh

10-31-2007, 10:31 AM

Nonsense. I started from scratch on Nagafen when my two high level toons were on Venekor, and I had no problems making money by the time the free transfers rolled around. If you don't sell rares you harvest, well, not having money is really a problem you created for yourself. I harvest to level my woodworking so I can make my own bows/arrows/totems, and I sell whatever else I dont need (after I get all the rares I need for my MC gear and spells of course)

MaCloud1032

10-31-2007, 11:02 AM

<cite>Menji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's another aspect to consider, making a new toon while having an existing higher toon, no big deal, he can send funds to him.Starting from scratch, without being able to lock combat, that will suck. Not just for new players who most likely don't even know about level locking, but someone with experiance that is new to the server.I have played EQ2 for 2+ years and recently rolled a few toons on a pvp server. I have not even been in a fight and have at least 30+ hours.I have toons locked at level 9 for harvesting, crafting and killing mobs for loot to sell. The problem is gold. Without being able to level lock then building a cash base would be hard. I don't sell rares, never have never will, if I didn't craft, sure.Even when I roll out with MC gear and adept 3's, I know i'm still going to lose, just not as much.Another option, buying plat, but I would rather earn my way there and not buy my way there.So will pvp gear be an option without being able to level lock in the low tiers?</blockquote>I have a 22 troub that was never locked and leveled strictly off of pvp and is wareing 4 pc of pvp gear. When this toon was made AA's started at lv 20 so i have none and tokens didnt exist. Feel free to look him up name is hypernova on venekor

Mighty Melvor

10-31-2007, 01:15 PM

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a 22 troub that was never locked and leveled strictly off of pvp and is wareing 4 pc of pvp gear. When this toon was made AA's started at lv 20 so i have none and tokens didnt exist. Feel free to look him up name is hypernova on venekor</blockquote>I could look him up, but does it tell me he was ever locked? NOSorry, but your argument doesn't hold any water.

MaCloud1032

10-31-2007, 01:31 PM

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a 22 troub that was never locked and leveled strictly off of pvp and is wareing 4 pc of pvp gear. When this toon was made AA's started at lv 20 so i have none and tokens didnt exist. Feel free to look him up name is hypernova on venekor</blockquote>I could look him up, but does it tell me he was ever locked? NOSorry, but your argument doesn't hold any water.</blockquote>Funny someone said that if you dont lock you cant get the gear. I have the toon to prove it. And iam telling you he wasnt locked. belive it if you will it can be done. That is the simple factEdit someone said its not possable in a diff thread. I simply pointed out that it can be done without locking

Awix

10-31-2007, 02:19 PM

The problem with level locking in lower levels is that, the first impression new players gets from PVP, is getting killed by twinks, which they don't stand a chance against.After 2 hours of playing on the server, and trying PVP you'll get mostly fights where you'll last 5 sec and can never win.I understand that most twinks want a place to rapidly compete, but for the new players, it's a very bad first impression of PVP.If the locking can only happens after 30, the new players will have a few days to get used to the game and the PVP system and the lockers will get to locking levels in a few more hours it took them to get to 14.

boon515

10-31-2007, 02:47 PM

I still agree with Green. Don't move the level to lock to 30, get rid of level differentiation for anyone who locks. There are copious amounts of quests at lower tiers. Not being able to do them will hamper the number of AAs I can get with a new character.

Bloodfa

10-31-2007, 03:45 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think a lot of the people who are complaining about this are just level 70s who want fresh meat. To me that just seems a bit selfish. So you want us to level so you can gank us in your raid gear and pvp armor? Well why don't you spend the time and make a twinked toon in T2-T3? These are probably the same 70s who were going around with level 10s OOC healing before it got nerfed.</blockquote>I just wanted to address this part of it, as the rest of it is based on personal opinion and everybody is entitled to their own. Now, this is based on conversations I've had with guildies, friends, family, and through PM's with a few others. There's no illusions among the 70's crowd about forcing everybody "to level so you can gank us in your raid gear and pvp armor". The greys that have been hanging around Sinking Sands dock for the past six months are proof that you can't force somebody to level up if they don't want to do anything but stay in that little safe spot. The rumor for the change is level 30. That means that all of the faction that you've acquired will still be there, you'd just have to get the gear at a higher tier. I've yet to meet somebody who hit level 70 by accident. Or 50, for that matter. All of the 70's I know have toons in their 30's and 40's, so if it's more PvP that lockers crave, believe me, it's there. It's just going to be a whole lot more challenging as far as players fighting back and being able to do something retaliatory when the gank squads come-a-calling. But as we're all debating a rumor, we'll have to wait and see what transpires. <cite></cite>On a side note, I find the total lack of commentary one way or the other by Devs as a telling sign in itself. If somebody passed the information on to someone outside of these channels and violated the NDA regarding Kunark, any official response would either be a lie or a further violation of the NDA if the rumors did indeed turn out to be fact. A Catch-22. Conspiracy theories should be about double by tomorrow. <cite><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></cite>

Aerlyn

10-31-2007, 04:12 PM

<cite>boon515 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still agree with Green. Don't move the level to lock to 30, get rid of level differentiation for anyone who locks. There are copious amounts of quests at lower tiers. Not being able to do them will hamper the number of AAs I can get with a new character. </blockquote>I've seen this idea brought up in a number of threads, but I'm still not really convinced on whether it will have a positive effect on the game, overall. Not trying to discuss that particular idea here; if anything maybe it should have its own thread, if there isn't already one, so that there is a central place to discuss the merits and problems with it, because as of right now, I think the posts about it are just scattered around in different threads.I know that the argument for doing it is that disabling combat experience gives you an advantage and that there should be a disadvantage that goes with it. However, I'm just not sure that this is a balanced disadvantage. Also, a person has to invest a lot of time to really take advantage of disabling combat experience, so isn't that a "disadvantage"? People who have groups or lots of money also have an advantage. Then by the same reasoning, shouldn't they have a disadvantage?I think the idea might be worth thinking about, but personally I'm still unconvinced.

Banditsoup

10-31-2007, 04:48 PM

Instead of taking out level locking, SOE should allow t2 and t3 zones to be like the cities, with Antonica, Gfay, and Thundering Steppes being Qeynosian aligned and Commonlands, Darklight, and Nek Forest being Freeport based. This would allow t2/t3 characters to work on quest/learn how to play while avoiding PvP if they choose.

liveja

10-31-2007, 05:04 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I should have the freedom to lock</blockquote>& you do, all the way up to the point that SOE says otherwise, at which point you no longer do./shrugYou have as much right to argue in favor of being allowed to level lock, as other people have to argue that level locking should be abolished entirely, & still others have to argue that it should be tweaked or scaled back. That's what public discussion forums are all about.

Tamar

11-01-2007, 02:21 PM

The current environment of T2 twinks was invented by SOE and the changes they made to the game such as removing the ability to PvP while mentored, removing evac in combat, adding AA gains starting at 10 instead of 20, etc...That said, since they made the current environment they can change if they deem necessary. All of the cries of "losing the T2 population", "how can they take it away?", "how can they tell me how to play?", are kind of strange considering that the T2 twink parade use to not even exist.Sure you had the old school versions of twinks in their crude master crafted armor from the next tier up, for those of us who remember that, but in general there were not T2 toons then with nearly as much power as now. And the ones that were there needed to fear the mentored 70s, the 8 level range, the groups of level 25 scouts who would swoop in, focus fire one person who would give infamy, and then evac out.Where were all of these T2 lockers when the T2 meta game didn't even exist?I see several faults with the rumored "no locking till 30" plan, but then again there are faults with the current set up.I personally think the biggest change that would allow some control over the lockers is to return the Carnage Flag Plague that once swept Antonica and the Commonlands, destroying all in its path. =P It was the great equalizer.

Bozidar

11-01-2007, 02:55 PM

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The current environment of T2 twinks was invented by SOE and the changes they made to the game such as removing the ability to PvP while mentored, removing evac in combat, adding AA gains starting at 10 instead of 20, etc...</blockquote>Wrong. T2 twinks were around since pvp started.Stop saying this.. it's complete bunk.

Tamar

11-01-2007, 03:11 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The current environment of T2 twinks was invented by SOE and the changes they made to the game such as removing the ability to PvP while mentored, removing evac in combat, adding AA gains starting at 10 instead of 20, etc...</blockquote>Wrong. T2 twinks were around since pvp started.Stop saying this.. it's complete bunk.</blockquote>The T2 twinks then were nothing like the T2 twinks now.You can't honestly disagree with that statement.Old school twink: A T2 Warden ran how fast? A T2 Fury had how much spell crit? A T2 Inquis had how much melee crit? If you wanted to run fast, you bought a horse. Magi's Shielding? Sure, but no wards from it. Master crafted armor? Crude Feysteel ftw. But you really had to earn it. It was before the days where rares started falling from the sky like rain.Yes, there were T2 twinks, but back then they did not define the T2 meta game like they do after the changes. They were merely an added spice to the game, not the game itself.

Bozidar

11-01-2007, 03:36 PM

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The T2 twinks then were nothing like the T2 twinks now.You can't honestly disagree with that statement.Old school twink: A T2 Warden ran how fast? A T2 Fury had how much spell crit? A T2 Inquis had how much melee crit? If you wanted to run fast, you bought a horse. Magi's Shielding? Sure, but no wards from it. Master crafted armor? Crude Feysteel ftw. But you really had to earn it. It was before the days where rares started falling from the sky like rain.Yes, there were T2 twinks, but back then they did not define the T2 meta game like they do after the changes. They were merely an added spice to the game, not the game itself.</blockquote>T2 twinks aren't the game itself now.. what are you talking about?I had T2 twinks before all these changes. I fought T2 twinks before all these changes. I killed a LOT of people, without run speed boosts (horses ftw), spell crits or anything else. If anything it was a HELL of a lot easier back then.It wasn't the starting of AA at 10. It wasn't the new trees added. It wasn't the larger amount of AA that made T2/T3 become very popular for pvp.It was all the folks who went to end-game and had fun at 70. They got sick of raiding for gear in a broken tier where you were totally helpless against certain classes.. and they found a spot where pvp was:1) Easier to get started in2) Easier to find3) More balanced4) Less focused on fame5) More funEOF came out and brought a lot of changes to the game. But the new race, and people wanting to try it out.. and loving the low level pvp. THAT'S what's created the situation we have today - where it's a lot more popular.T2 pvp was always fun, twink vs twink, twink vs group, ect. It just wasn't POPULAR till the Fae were released and experienced players got a taste of it... without having to level 60 times in order to get a piece.SoE didn't make T2 pvp viable, they didn't CREATE the situation where it's at now -- the playerbase did that by recognizing what was there all along.SoE just made it more interesting.

ThomasGrey

11-01-2007, 03:58 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) I think "newbs" (read: new players, not idiots) actually learn something from failing in pvp fights. I believe this because when i was a "newb", this is how I learned.2) I think that griefing new players (read: killing them over and over again for no rewards) is the lowest of the low, and people that make this a habit should have thier toons deleted.3) I think we had a happy medium of 1 and 2 before EoF came out and the masses flooded to T2 pvp. Prior to that T2 pvp was alive, but not like this, and the AA changes just made the difference between new players and vets that much larger -- the AA cap was a great thing but still too little to fix this.</blockquote> 1. I didn't learn much from the 3 or 4 second zerg/ganks I was pretty accustomed to in T2 while out trying to finish quests. I can remember vividly occasions where more than one group of level 15's enemies where competing for my death. Very rarely did I find a really good fight in T2 where I could try some things beyond the "sprint" key. Mostly in T2 I learned all the different emotes players can do on your corpse after they 6 on 1 zerg you, and that most guards don't really offer you any protection, and that alot of players will kill you repeatedly, not really caring about your title or their potential faction gain. I learned that harvesting with my main, something I enjoy doing while out questing, is stupid because everyone else uses a loophole so they can harvest with pvp immunity with a level 8 alt. 2. The griefing happens because most of the capable T2 players of your faction are grouped up in the other factions T2 zone stalking your counterpart and leaving the less capable lowbies running around solo or in small groups trying to complete quests. Once you become T2 capable(some Adept III's and good treasured gear) you either join in on the "fun" or level through to T3 where its a similar experience but not as crowded. In T4, you share zones for harvesting and questing much more than in T2 where each faction has its own lowbie zones. Zek and EL are great battlefields for every player, from the solo, to the group oriented, from harvesters to questers. I've been locked in T4 for 3 weeks and its the best EQ2 experience I've had. As much as I know this is the fix that needs to happen, I'm kind of sad knowing that T4 will not be the same. By T4, every player is going to have their feet underneath them, going to have a few pvp fights under their belt, and be either sold on the game or hating it. Even the extreme pvp gamers can hit T4 with 30 AA's in couple weeks time. Not a bad grind to have to endure.

Bozidar

11-01-2007, 04:25 PM

<cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite> <blockquote> 2. The griefing happens because most of the capable T2 players of your faction are grouped up in the other factions T2 zone stalking your counterpart and leaving the less capable lowbies running around solo or in small groups trying to complete quests. .</blockquote>I won't argue with you about 1. You learn your way.. i feel that dying easily is a lesson in and of itself. You die as quick as a wink, and don't go out and find out why, and try to correct it... then you're never going to be able to enjoy pvp on this game. Ever, for any level. Ever. It's gonna happen to every new player.. sooner or later.as for 2..Griefing.. TRUE griefing, killing people over and over, preventing them from questing, with no reward for it whatsoever.. that's what hurts this game.A guy gets killed, he thinks "ah crap, again.. ugh.. *revive*"And when you have idiots who go back and kill that player over and over.. getting no reward for it whatsoever. Doing it just because he's there, with no provocation.. That's the lowest of the low. There are no in-game things forcing this to happen, it's 1-million-% in the player control to NOT kill someone over and over again.Killing someone in crap gear is PVP. Getting faction status and maybe coin for him, that's pvp. I don't care if he's controlled by a 7 year old with a siezure problem, if he's out in the world and i can kill him -- i will. That's PVP, it's not griefing.But killing someone for no reason other than spoil their gameplay.. that's griefing, and it happens WAAAAY too much. That's the kinda thing that makes me wish I was a GM, i know exactly where these guys do this, how they do it, and i'd boot their arses quick as a wink.I've introduced this game to a number of people, and they could all take it when they died in pvp. What drove them nuts were people who went out of their way to be, not enemies, but JERKS.

MaCloud1032

11-01-2007, 04:48 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The T2 twinks then were nothing like the T2 twinks now.You can't honestly disagree with that statement.Old school twink: A T2 Warden ran how fast? A T2 Fury had how much spell crit? A T2 Inquis had how much melee crit? If you wanted to run fast, you bought a horse. Magi's Shielding? Sure, but no wards from it. Master crafted armor? Crude Feysteel ftw. But you really had to earn it. It was before the days where rares started falling from the sky like rain.Yes, there were T2 twinks, but back then they did not define the T2 meta game like they do after the changes. They were merely an added spice to the game, not the game itself.</blockquote>T2 twinks aren't the game itself now.. what are you talking about?I had T2 twinks before all these changes. I fought T2 twinks before all these changes. I killed a LOT of people, without run speed boosts (horses ftw), spell crits or anything else. If anything it was a HELL of a lot easier back then.It wasn't the starting of AA at 10. It wasn't the new trees added. It wasn't the larger amount of AA that made T2/T3 become very popular for pvp.It was all the folks who went to end-game and had fun at 70. They got sick of raiding for gear in a broken tier where you were totally helpless against certain classes.. and they found a spot where pvp was:T7 is as about as balanced as you will find. Every class can kill each class. It is just very situational. A mage can easly kill a ranger if th ranger doesnt get the jump on them. A player who knows there class is the most dangerous thing you will find. I see it everyday in T7 people that make you say holy crap how they do that.1) Easier to get started in If you have some one gearing you up if not your just fodder2) Easier to find This i can agree with3) More balanced Sorry game is ballanced for the high end. just because you have 4 buttons does not mean its ballanced4) Less focused on fame Ya thell that to the lv 20 general5) More fun Personal opinion there spamming my 4 buttons is not fun deciding on weather or not i should use one of my 20 for a diff situation now that takes skillEOF came out and brought a lot of changes to the game. But the new race, and people wanting to try it out.. and loving the low level pvp. THAT'S what's created the situation we have today - where it's a lot more popular.T2 pvp was always fun, twink vs twink, twink vs group, ect. It just wasn't POPULAR till the Fae were released and experienced players got a taste of it... without having to level 60 times in order to get a piece.SoE didn't make T2 pvp viable, they didn't CREATE the situation where it's at now -- the playerbase did that by recognizing what was there all along.SoE just made it more interesting.</blockquote>

Bozidar

11-01-2007, 04:56 PM

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>T7 is as about as balanced as you will find. Every class can kill each class. It is just very situational. A mage can easly kill a ranger if th ranger doesnt get the jump on them. A player who knows there class is the most dangerous thing you will find. I see it everyday in T7 people that make you say holy crap how they do that.1) Easier to get started in If you have some one gearing you up if not your just fodder2) Easier to find This i can agree with3) More balanced Sorry game is ballanced for the high end. just because you have 4 buttons does not mean its ballanced4) Less focused on fame Ya thell that to the lv 20 general5) More fun Personal opinion there spamming my 4 buttons is not fun deciding on weather or not i should use one of my 20 for a diff situation now that takes skill</blockquote></blockquote>T7 has had some balance corrections since then, it wasn't even close to balanced then. You know it, I know it, don't make me make a liar out of you.1) Wrong, getting gear for T2 pvp is easier than getting gear for T7 pvp. Someone helping you or not, it's a lot easier. By far. Proove me wrong, give it a shot2) Thanks3) Read above.. and if you're using "4 buttons" then you're a noob.4) Exploiters made general in T2.. but that wasn't the FOCUS. Just part of the flavor. You didn't have people evacing on site from fights, or cliff diving to get on people's recent list and then go back and fight them w/o fear of fame loss.5) I think that easier to gear, easier to find, more balanced, and less whoring.. is more fun. And if i was the only one to think this, low-end pvp wouldn't be as populated as it is.As I said.. the POPULATION made this situation the way it is. They choose this.. it wasn't because it was less fun. Think it through.

MaCloud1032

11-01-2007, 05:14 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>T7 is as about as balanced as you will find. Every class can kill each class. It is just very situational. A mage can easly kill a ranger if th ranger doesnt get the jump on them. A player who knows there class is the most dangerous thing you will find. I see it everyday in T7 people that make you say holy crap how they do that.1) Easier to get started in If you have some one gearing you up if not your just fodder2) Easier to find This i can agree with3) More balanced Sorry game is ballanced for the high end. just because you have 4 buttons does not mean its ballanced4) Less focused on fame Ya thell that to the lv 20 general5) More fun Personal opinion there spamming my 4 buttons is not fun deciding on weather or not i should use one of my 20 for a diff situation now that takes skill</blockquote></blockquote>T7 has had some balance corrections since then, it wasn't even close to balanced then. You know it, I know it, don't make me make a liar out of you.1) Wrong, getting gear for T2 pvp is easier than getting gear for T7 pvp. Someone helping you or not, it's a lot easier. By far. Proove me wrong, give it a shot THats what i was saying you can easly gear out in t2 but if you dont you are just fodder for the twinks. In T7 you cant buy your gar anymore you have to earn it.2) Thanks3) Read above.. and if you're using "4 buttons" then you're a noob.4) Exploiters made general in T2.. but that wasn't the FOCUS. Just part of the flavor. You didn't have people evacing on site from fights, or cliff diving to get on people's recent list and then go back and fight them w/o fear of fame loss. You call this exploiting and i agree. But by yours and others opinions as long as its in the game and doable its not a exploit.. I see locking as a exploit you are locked to maintain that upper hand that you have. Its within the confinds of the game so you can do it.5) I think that easier to gear, easier to find, more balanced, and less whoring.. is more fun. And if i was the only one to think this, low-end pvp wouldn't be as populated as it is.As I said.. the POPULATION made this situation the way it is. They choose this.. it wasn't because it was less fun. Think it through.</blockquote>Let me ask this when RoK comes out if the T2 population drys up what will you do? And iam serious about this. Many have stated that they have 70s. You assume that most of the lockers have a 70 toon. Nov 13 what will you do when they all poof?

Tamar

11-01-2007, 05:28 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The T2 twinks then were nothing like the T2 twinks now.You can't honestly disagree with that statement.Old school twink: A T2 Warden ran how fast? A T2 Fury had how much spell crit? A T2 Inquis had how much melee crit? If you wanted to run fast, you bought a horse. Magi's Shielding? Sure, but no wards from it. Master crafted armor? Crude Feysteel ftw. But you really had to earn it. It was before the days where rares started falling from the sky like rain.Yes, there were T2 twinks, but back then they did not define the T2 meta game like they do after the changes. They were merely an added spice to the game, not the game itself.</blockquote>T2 twinks aren't the game itself now.. what are you talking about?I had T2 twinks before all these changes. I fought T2 twinks before all these changes. I killed a LOT of people, without run speed boosts (horses ftw), spell crits or anything else. If anything it was a HELL of a lot easier back then.It wasn't the starting of AA at 10. It wasn't the new trees added. It wasn't the larger amount of AA that made T2/T3 become very popular for pvp.It was all the folks who went to end-game and had fun at 70. They got sick of raiding for gear in a broken tier where you were totally helpless against certain classes.. and they found a spot where pvp was:1) Easier to get started in2) Easier to find3) More balanced4) Less focused on fame5) More funEOF came out and brought a lot of changes to the game. But the new race, and people wanting to try it out.. and loving the low level pvp. THAT'S what's created the situation we have today - where it's a lot more popular.T2 pvp was always fun, twink vs twink, twink vs group, ect. It just wasn't POPULAR till the Fae were released and experienced players got a taste of it... without having to level 60 times in order to get a piece.SoE didn't make T2 pvp viable, they didn't CREATE the situation where it's at now -- the playerbase did that by recognizing what was there all along.SoE just made it more interesting.</blockquote>I think maybe its just a matter of perspectives. I do agree with you that the players "created T2 PvP", but they did it because of the changes that SOE made.You cite EoF as the time line for the rise of T2's popularity. If you review the update notes I believe you will notice that many of the changes that I mentioned as being the impetuous for T2 becoming the most popular meta game are centric to that time.It used to be that twinks weren't needed to enjoy PvP in T2, T3, etc. Mentoring was possible. Why would I roll a T2 and invest in rares, at a time when the rare drop was substantially less, when I could just enjoy playing with my guildies on the same toon I always played?So yeah, maybe just perspectives. You view it as the players making the environment by playing a certain way, I view it as SOE making the environment by providing players incentives to play a certain way.In the end it doesn't matter which came first, the twink or the game changes that made them the funnest and easiest to play. What matters is will there be other game changes that make a different tier the one that is easiest to get into and funnest to play.

Torrin

11-01-2007, 06:28 PM

First off.. twinks stop crying and level up. More people level up to 70-80 more people there are to fight all the way around. There's also the raiding aspect available at 70-80, considered half of the game in itself. Don't like to raid don't have to raid, PvP gear is nearly as good as Raided Gear. Secondly instead of messing with the whole level locker crap SoE needs to spend that time looking at Mitigation and Resist Scaling. It's broken.A Lv.59 can get fewer resists and hit harder with spells against a lv.70 than a lv.70 can. Don't believe me? Go ask some mages about it.. I know several who have commented that when they were Grey they rarely had their spells resisted by a 70, but at 70 get resisted all the time. Mitigation scaling compared to skill scaling. When in top gear you can get a max of 3000 mit and a class can drop your mit by 2900, that's not scaled properly imo. Then there is the in-combat problems.. that still exist. Consuming food or drink after someone attacks you, puts you in combat. summoning a mount as someone attacks you, puts you in combat. Then there's the unable to ride while xxxxx player hates you.. [Removed for Content]? I can't get on a mount or take a carpet or float away on a cloud because someone hates me? Why does it not work the same as mobs? you can be hated by them all you want and still do whatever. Fixing that simple thing would get more people to fight and less people to fight in zones like SS / KoS where they can't bait and fly constantly. Simple fix: You attack someone, they use a transport to get away, you drop combat. Not a hard concept to implement.then there are the broken interrupts with some abilities. Evac being a big one. Scout evac should be like Caster Evac, interruptable. With the auto-recast it's [Removed for Content] near impossible to break someone using Evac without killing them. When I can attack someone they start Evac, Interrupt, Evac recasts, Stun, Evac Recasts, Knockback, Evac Recasts and finishes.. that's crazy. Let it be interruptable, let it be broken. or hell remove it from the game doesn't matter to me.Also Manashield. Okay fine mages can keep your 20k or 30k damage ward, but at least let them be interrupted during it. Effects should still trigger even if they are warded, should hold true for all classes. They are warded from the damage, not the effects. If a person can proc Interrupts or Stuns while beating on a Damage Ward, the procs should still take effect. To sum it all up.. SoE, fix your [Removed for Content] before you add more ridiculous rules. thx.

Bozidar

11-02-2007, 02:24 AM

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me ask this when RoK comes out if the T2 population drys up what will you do? And iam serious about this. Many have stated that they have 70s. You assume that most of the lockers have a 70 toon. Nov 13 what will you do when they all poof?</blockquote>Fair question, especailly since i've never had a 70.On nov 13th, if they remove level locking until 30, i'm... "GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!!"and no.. i'm not joking.but when i get back i'll keep leveling my warden and then my troub. I'lll figure out where i want to lock my brigand, my inquis, my wizard and my inquis.

Bozidar

11-02-2007, 02:27 AM

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think maybe its just a matter of perspectives. I do agree with you that the players "created T2 PvP", but they did it because of the changes that SOE made.You cite EoF as the time line for the rise of T2's popularity. If you review the update notes I believe you will notice that many of the changes that I mentioned as being the impetuous for T2 becoming the most popular meta game are centric to that time.It used to be that twinks weren't needed to enjoy PvP in T2, T3, etc. Mentoring was possible. Why would I roll a T2 and invest in rares, at a time when the rare drop was substantially less, when I could just enjoy playing with my guildies on the same toon I always played?So yeah, maybe just perspectives. You view it as the players making the environment by playing a certain way, I view it as SOE making the environment by providing players incentives to play a certain way.In the end it doesn't matter which came first, the twink or the game changes that made them the funnest and easiest to play. What matters is will there be other game changes that make a different tier the one that is easiest to get into and funnest to play.</blockquote>How long was mentoring live on pvp? Seriously, can we let that one go? Unless you want to bring back the changes they made to pet classes and how that must be the reason for level locking?I view it as players getting a taste of pvp in t2 because of the new race, and being tired of what was a borked tier of pvp. I think that's the real reason folks locked.And yeah.. they were will be other game changes.. and so be it.but let's not try to justify "soe giveth and soe taketh away". no one at SoE released notes:"PvP in lower levels will now be more fun for you, so you can lock and get 100 aa and gank noobs!"fyi-- i'm not entirely against teh chagne.. i just wish they'd tried other things before they do this.

Bozidar

11-02-2007, 02:31 AM

<cite>Torrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>First off.. twinks stop crying and level up. </blockquote>most of the crying is from folks on unpopulated pvp servers at lvl 70 with no one to fight.. tbh.the rest is from folks who tried to create a new pvp toon after being at 70. and got owned, hard.then there's the occasionaly nooby who posts some crying stuff like this:"I got on a pvp server, leveled to 10 naked, and went out into the highest action pvp zone and i DIED!!!!! OH NOEZ!!!! How can SoE let this HAPPEN!?!?!?"in short.. stop crying yourself.I have a guild with almost 200 accounts, and our average level is 20. I can count on 1 hand the number of people in my guild who will quit the game if they remove locking until 30. We're not crying, just want to know if it's official so that folks who are under the NDA dont' have a HUGE advantage over those of us who aren't (ie: being able to prepare their toons for this).

ladyvengeance

11-02-2007, 03:27 AM

^Yeah, I agree about the people crying. Most of the crying is coming from level 70s who try out T2 and get owned hard. There might be a few noobs who try out the game and then quit after being owned, but I doubt there are thousands of these cases as someone suggested.If they change level locking until level 30 on November 13th, then yes, I will quit. And I'm not joking about this. I'll give my plat and fabled items to some guildies or friends. I'll probably take a break from the MMORPG scene for awhile and try another game.

Mildavyn

11-02-2007, 07:40 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>^Yeah, I agree about the people crying. Most of the crying is coming from level 70s who try out T2 and get owned hard. There might be a few noobs who try out the game and then quit after being owned, but I doubt there are thousands of these cases as someone suggested.If they change level locking until level 30 on November 13th, then yes, I will quit. And I'm not joking about this. I'll give my plat and fabled items to some guildies or friends. I'll probably take a break from the MMORPG scene for awhile and try another game.</blockquote>It's not crying, it's a valid complaint. Reasons why locking is bad and is damaging the server populations have been said over and over. I don't feel any need to repeat them. Both sides have had their say, the line in the sand has been drawn, now it's up to Sony.If you're going to leave because of a minor change like that (yes it is minor, seriously, it takes how long to level to 30? [How do you like the taste of your own medicine eh?]) then all I can say is goodby /wave and can I have your stuff?

ladyvengeance

11-02-2007, 08:45 AM

BS. It's not minor at all. This is a major change. All of my toons are below level 30, and it took a LONG time (nearly a year) to get them to where they are today. To change locking to level 30 means I have to say goodbye to all my fabled gear, master spells, and pvp gear (I don't have enough faction for the level 30 stuff). That's nearly a year of hard work down the drain.

Mildavyn

11-02-2007, 09:05 AM

How on earth do you not have enough faction for the level 30 stuff? After a year of play, with no toon over level 30... what were you doing? Do you only have a few hours a week to play or something?Level-lockers have been preaching the 10 hours to get to level 20! thing for months. It can't take more than 2-3 days to get to level 30. Infact I know it doesn't take that long, my guardian is level 49 (or 50, i forget) and he's got less than 3 days played... and he quested while XP locked the whole to 40 where he ran out of quests to do.

Naglfar

11-02-2007, 09:06 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>BS. It's not minor at all. This is a major change. All of my toons are below level 30, and it took a LONG time (nearly a year) to get them to where they are today. To change locking to level 30 means I have to say goodbye to all my fabled gear, master spells, and pvp gear (I don't have enough faction for the level 30 stuff). That's nearly a year of hard work down the drain.</blockquote>It's called progression, and is the core component of any mmorpg.Btw it's the same for all lvl 70 toons, we will have to upgrade all of our gear / master. And most of us are happy of this, because new content and new challenge are fun.And if you had enough time to lock and overgear "many" toons, you should have time enough to do it again. (or level one toon to 80 <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> )

mattmandude

11-02-2007, 09:17 AM

Yeah, funny to hear someone complaining that they'll have to level their toons to 30 and re-gear them, LOL.-EDIT- Anyone familiar with "/thereisnotry" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Amphibia

11-02-2007, 10:11 AM

<cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>BS. It's not minor at all. This is a major change. All of my toons are below level 30, and it took a LONG time (nearly a year) to get them to where they are today. To change locking to level 30 means I have to say goodbye to all my fabled gear, master spells, and pvp gear (I don't have enough faction for the level 30 stuff). That's nearly a year of hard work down the drain.</blockquote>It's called progression, and is the core component of any mmorpg.Btw it's the same for all lvl 70 toons, we will have to upgrade all of our gear / master. And most of us are happy of this, because new content and new challenge are fun.And if you had enough time to lock and overgear "many" toons, you should have time enough to do it again. (or level one toon to 80 <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> )</blockquote>Hehe, so true....

Mighty Melvor

11-02-2007, 10:47 AM

ladyvengeance

11-02-2007, 11:29 AM

Well, it looks like I'm in the minority here. But since less than 1% of the EQ2 population actually post on here (and most who do are whiners), I seriously doubt that I'm in the minority of the EQ2 population.And of course all of this is just a RUMOR. I doubt any of this will actually happen.

Bozidar

11-02-2007, 01:35 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, it looks like I'm in the minority here. But since less than 1% of the EQ2 population actually post on here (and most who do are whiners), I seriously doubt that I'm in the minority of the EQ2 population.And of course all of this is just a RUMOR. I doubt any of this will actually happen.</blockquote>when it comes to folks who will leave if they move locking to 30... i have to say -- you're very very much in the minority.

Elephanton

11-03-2007, 12:26 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, it looks like I'm in the minority here. But since less than 1% of the EQ2 population actually post on here (and most who do are whiners), I seriously doubt that I'm in the minority of the EQ2 population.And of course all of this is just a RUMOR. I doubt any of this will actually happen.</blockquote>when it comes to folks who will leave if they move locking to 30... i have to say -- you're very very much in the minority.</blockquote>This is true, also because less people will be quitting EQ2 after their 1st day in CL, overall number of subscribers will be growing faster after this change even though some people may quit.P.S. Can I have your stuff?

ladyvengeance

11-04-2007, 08:05 PM

No, you cannot have my stuff. It goes to guildies or FRIENDS.

TniEradani

11-05-2007, 01:26 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Back to the OP, I have spent too long and too much money not to defend my right to lock. I guess it really comes down to a few things. First of all, I really hate how some of you are dictating how people should play a GAME. I should have the freedom to lock and play the way I want. And let me repeat: I do not have a 14. I do not kill noobs if I can help it (at least not anymore). I lock because my friends are locked. Because a lot of the pvp (and it is fun pvp) can be found in T1-3. I don't lock to kill noobs, or to have an "I win" button. It takes a lot of time to twink a character. Finding rare fabled items on the broker or farming them takes months. I do it so I can compete at this level. So don't expect me (and many others) not to go down without defending this freedom. We were all noobs at some point. I got ganked a lot. It just made me want to get better. If the new players can't handle it at level 10, what makes you think they can handle it at level 30? If they quit and come on here to whine after getting ganked a few times then they were probably going to quit eventually anyway. I think a lot of the people who are complaining about this are just level 70s who want fresh meat. To me that just seems a bit selfish. So you want us to level so you can gank us in your raid gear and pvp armor? Well why don't you spend the time and make a twinked toon in T2-T3? These are probably the same 70s who were going around with level 10s OOC healing before it got nerfed.</blockquote>QFEBenefits of using the Disable Combat XP option:Learn about your class. I've been grouped with a lvl 25 inq mentored down to 10 for some of Mooshga's stuff. She didn't know how to heal herself and died lots.Learn an area. From a freep (who had been very vocally dissing Disable Combat XP for the last few days) standing on TS Docks on channel 20-29: how do you get to ant? From a high lvl PvEer doing The Journey is half the Fun: where's vahlen's bells? where's archer's wood? ... Numerous examples. And don't get on about how I'm talking about T2 / T3 zones - this happens everywhere people lvl up too fast.Get AAs. Experience from my 37 zerker: If you don't have combat xp disabled and just go about your business and questing where you can, you'll be lucky to get one AA per level. She's been doing T5 harvesting in FR and just finishing up TS and Nek quests and moving into Zek. I turned on combat xp for a couple of lvls and got 1.5 AAs.Have fun PvPing. I'm not talking about ganking newbs to be a lvl 12 General. I'm talking about playing with people you've gotten to know how to work with and running around hunting the enemy or doing named runs in dungeons and stumbling on the competition. <hr />I've heard people say: I just want to see the rest of the world. Oh Pfffft, I don't want to "See Europe in 14 Days", I want to spend a few months in every country and get to know the place.I've heard people say: oh ya, T2 pvp is just pushing 3 buttons. Well - no it's not - there's way more than 3 buttons to push. And... it would be nice if people learned how and when and why to push those buttons. The other day, someone said to me, "ya well besides buffing, there's only 3 buttons". Idk, I think it would be nice for someone to know about their buffs and who to put their single target buffs on and to know enough about buffing to stand still till everyone finishes buffing and putting buffs on the right people. This doesn't happen in T2 because mostly people haven't played long enough but I see it happening in T3 with my friends who have disabled combat xp. I've also been with a fast lvling pve crowd at lvl 35-39 and had to speak loudly to get people to wait for buffs.You fast lvl if you want to, but I don't want to group with you anymore. You get me killed by mobs and pvp soooo many times because you won't know what you're doing. I don't claim to perfect, but I know how to play my 35 that I've built since April, better than someone who started their 35 2-3 weeks ago.When I play my lvl 17, I expect people to not have lots of experience and I expect to be in helper mode a bit. But when I play my 35 ... it would be nice if mages knew enough to left the tank go first and pull in the sister's rooms in Nek Castle. And even after you tell them 8 times.Enough ranting for the day.Disable Combat XP as the default setting FTW

liveja

11-05-2007, 01:48 PM

<cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>When I play my lvl 17, I expect people to not have lots of experience and I expect to be in helper mode a bit. But when I play my 35 ... it would be nice if mages knew enough to left the tank go first and pull in the sister's rooms in Nek Castle. And even after you tell them 8 times.</blockquote>I don't believe that any amount of level locking in any given tier is going to make those players any better. Why? Because experience only helps smart people; idiots, OTOH, never learn.

MokiCh

11-05-2007, 03:13 PM

<cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Benefits of using the Disable Combat XP option:Learn about your class. I've been grouped with a lvl 25 inq mentored down to 10 for some of Mooshga's stuff. She didn't know how to heal herself and died lots.Learn an area. From a freep (who had been very vocally dissing Disable Combat XP for the last few days) standing on TS Docks on channel 20-29: how do you get to ant? From a high lvl PvEer doing The Journey is half the Fun: where's vahlen's bells? where's archer's wood? ... Numerous examples. And don't get on about how I'm talking about T2 / T3 zones - this happens everywhere people lvl up too fast.Get AAs. Experience from my 37 zerker: If you don't have combat xp disabled and just go about your business and questing where you can, you'll be lucky to get one AA per level. She's been doing T5 harvesting in FR and just finishing up TS and Nek quests and moving into Zek. I turned on combat xp for a couple of lvls and got 1.5 AAs.Have fun PvPing. I'm not talking about ganking newbs to be a lvl 12 General. I'm talking about playing with people you've gotten to know how to work with and running around hunting the enemy or doing named runs in dungeons and stumbling on the competition. I've heard people say: I just want to see the rest of the world. Oh Pfffft, I don't want to "See Europe in 14 Days", I want to spend a few months in every country and get to know the place.I've heard people say: oh ya, T2 pvp is just pushing 3 buttons. Well - no it's not - there's way more than 3 buttons to push. And... it would be nice if people learned how and when and why to push those buttons. The other day, someone said to me, "ya well besides buffing, there's only 3 buttons". Idk, I think it would be nice for someone to know about their buffs and who to put their single target buffs on and to know enough about buffing to stand still till everyone finishes buffing and putting buffs on the right people. This doesn't happen in T2 because mostly people haven't played long enough but I see it happening in T3 with my friends who have disabled combat xp. I've also been with a fast lvling pve crowd at lvl 35-39 and had to speak loudly to get people to wait for buffs.You fast lvl if you want to, but I don't want to group with you anymore. You get me killed by mobs and pvp soooo many times because you won't know what you're doing. I don't claim to perfect, but I know how to play my 35 that I've built since April, better than someone who started their 35 2-3 weeks ago.When I play my lvl 17, I expect people to not have lots of experience and I expect to be in helper mode a bit. But when I play my 35 ... it would be nice if mages knew enough to left the tank go first and pull in the sister's rooms in Nek Castle. And even after you tell them 8 times.Enough ranting for the day.Disable Combat XP as the default setting FTW</blockquote>I think you're making very, very gross generalizations here about players who level up fast. Practically everything you've said here applies to people who started playing fairly recently and don't understand the game mechanics. Yes it sucks playing with newbs that get you killed a lot and just generally waste everyone's time. But don't tell me I'm a shoddy player just because I don't feel like doing the Mooshga Mush quest for the two hundredth time and run around the same zones that I've been through more times than I care to count since November 2004. I don't invest a ton of money into skills and gear that I'm just going to replace in a week or two because I could spend that money on upgrading my level 70/80 characters that will actually use their skills for a good long while. This means that my little Warlock or my Ranger probably isn't going to be able to compete with you lot that have been rocking out the Commonlands and Ruins of Varsoon for the past five months straight, but that's ok because in a little while I'll have outleveled you and can go about my business unmolested. And if you do ever decide to level up you can count on me to be there to give you a nice, warm welcome to unlimited range pvp zones, and to show you just how shoddy a powerleveler really is.

Bloodfa

11-05-2007, 03:42 PM

<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Benefits of using the Disable Combat XP option: Learn about your class. I've been grouped with a lvl 25 inq mentored down to 10 for some of Mooshga's stuff. She didn't know how to heal herself and died lots.Learn an area. From a freep (who had been very vocally dissing Disable Combat XP for the last few days) standing on TS Docks on channel 20-29: how do you get to ant? From a high lvl PvEer doing The Journey is half the Fun: where's vahlen's bells? where's archer's wood? ... Numerous examples. And don't get on about how I'm talking about T2 / T3 zones - this happens everywhere people lvl up too fast.Get AAs. Experience from my 37 zerker: If you don't have combat xp disabled and just go about your business and questing where you can, you'll be lucky to get one AA per level. She's been doing T5 harvesting in FR and just finishing up TS and Nek quests and moving into Zek. I turned on combat xp for a couple of lvls and got 1.5 AAs.Have fun PvPing. I'm not talking about ganking newbs to be a lvl 12 General. I'm talking about playing with people you've gotten to know how to work with and running around hunting the enemy or doing named runs in dungeons and stumbling on the competition. I've heard people say: I just want to see the rest of the world. Oh Pfffft, I don't want to "See Europe in 14 Days", I want to spend a few months in every country and get to know the place.I've heard people say: oh ya, T2 pvp is just pushing 3 buttons. Well - no it's not - there's way more than 3 buttons to push. And... it would be nice if people learned how and when and why to push those buttons. The other day, someone said to me, "ya well besides buffing, there's only 3 buttons". Idk, I think it would be nice for someone to know about their buffs and who to put their single target buffs on and to know enough about buffing to stand still till everyone finishes buffing and putting buffs on the right people. This doesn't happen in T2 because mostly people haven't played long enough but I see it happening in T3 with my friends who have disabled combat xp. I've also been with a fast lvling pve crowd at lvl 35-39 and had to speak loudly to get people to wait for buffs.You fast lvl if you want to, but I don't want to group with you anymore. You get me killed by mobs and pvp soooo many times because you won't know what you're doing. I don't claim to perfect, but I know how to play my 35 that I've built since April, better than someone who started their 35 2-3 weeks ago.When I play my lvl 17, I expect people to not have lots of experience and I expect to be in helper mode a bit. But when I play my 35 ... it would be nice if mages knew enough to left the tank go first and pull in the sister's rooms in Nek Castle. And even after you tell them 8 times.Enough ranting for the day.Disable Combat XP as the default setting FTW</blockquote>I think you're making very, very gross generalizations here about players who level up fast. Practically everything you've said here applies to people who started playing fairly recently and don't understand the game mechanics. Yes it sucks playing with newbs that get you killed a lot and just generally waste everyone's time. But don't tell me I'm a shoddy player just because I don't feel like doing the Mooshga Mush quest for the two hundredth time and run around the same zones that I've been through more times than I care to count since November 2004. I don't invest a ton of money into skills and gear that I'm just going to replace in a week or two because I could spend that money on upgrading my level 70/80 characters that will actually use their skills for a good long while. This means that my little Warlock or my Ranger probably isn't going to be able to compete with you lot that have been rocking out the Commonlands and Ruins of Varsoon for the past five months straight, but that's ok because in a little while I'll have outleveled you and can go about my business unmolested. And if you do ever decide to level up you can count on me to be there to give you a nice, warm welcome to unlimited range pvp zones, and to show you just how shoddy a powerleveler really is.</blockquote>And right there's the biggest fear from so many posters saying they don't want to unlock.

TniEradani

11-06-2007, 03:13 AM

<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you're making very, very gross generalizations here about players who level up fast. Practically everything you've said here applies to people who started playing fairly recently and don't understand the game mechanics. Yes it sucks playing with newbs that get you killed a lot and just generally waste everyone's time. But don't tell me I'm a shoddy player just because I don't feel like doing the Mooshga Mush quest for the two hundredth time and run around the same zones that I've been through more times than I care to count since November 2004. I don't invest a ton of money into skills and gear that I'm just going to replace in a week or two because I could spend that money on upgrading my level 70/80 characters that will actually use their skills for a good long while. This means that my little Warlock or my Ranger probably isn't going to be able to compete with you lot that have been rocking out the Commonlands and Ruins of Varsoon for the past five months straight, but that's ok because in a little while I'll have outleveled you and can go about my business unmolested. And if you do ever decide to level up you can count on me to be there to give you a nice, warm welcome to unlimited range pvp zones, and to show you just how shoddy a powerleveler really is.</blockquote>Yes, what I'm saying does apply to new people. New people are the ones you're trying to encourage to stay by ... screwing up the game.You are definitely not the new people this rumored change is supposed to protect.And... if we've been "rocking out the Commonlands and Ruins of Varsoon for the past five months straight" then we've been out PvPing - which is what we came here for - not the mindless grind to 70.Furthermore, you've been here since November 2004, you probably know how to play the game by now. I'm talking about newbs who go from 0-60 in 10.4 seconds. I've PvE'd with PvEers and with PvPers and it's way more fun with PvPers.And when I do ever, some year, get to your unlimited range pvp zones, I'll show you just how shoddy a slow leveler is.

Tae

11-06-2007, 10:16 AM

<cite>Eradani@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Get AAs. Experience from my 37 zerker: If you don't have combat xp disabled and just go about your business and questing where you can, you'll be lucky to get one AA per level. She's been doing T5 harvesting in FR and just finishing up TS and Nek quests and moving into Zek. I turned on combat xp for a couple of lvls and got 1.5 AAs.Disable Combat XP as the default setting FTW</blockquote>I've never level locked and I had 100 achievement by level 70. I've done maybe three heritage quests and the Speak as a Dragon quest. That's it. I barely even visited any dungeons. You don't have to level lock to get full achievement points. I swear so many lowbies now seem to have the idea that you have to lock to get achievement when it's really not true. It might have been at one time, but no longer. And screw having it disabled as the default, there simply are not enough quests to go from 60-70 without killing mobs. I just don't understand the people who've been at level 20 for 5 months yet think getting to 70 would take forever. It takes far far less than five months just fyi.

Wytie

11-06-2007, 10:52 AM

I just want to say, every new toon i make, everyone of them, gets locked from 10-20.why? Simply for AA and a chance at some pvp and faction. Its what you call a good start then if i enjoy the class ill unlock and level. If my AA to XP ratio ever gets less than i like i just relock till im happy.Unless im power leveling (which isnt fun really) i always lock my toons xp. I understand the importance of AA way two much to not do the 250 quest that are so easy during 10-20 level ranges there just isnt any possible way with pvp also, to do all that and not level way to fast. After EoF i learned from having a 38 level toon with 7 AA how important it is to get as many asap as a leveling toon. All those toons were pretty much screwed in pvp due to that expansion.If you dont wanta lock that your choice but dont take away everyone elses choice of how to play. All moving the level lock cap will do is make existing twinks all the more powerful because none of the newer players wont have a chance to gain all the AA the same way. SoE gets paid all this money somebody should be able to use their heads and find another solution rather than limit our play style freedoms.Just because you can do something some way, and think everyone else should be able to do the same, doesnt mean we should have too......