Test Server ... What exactly is the point? [Archive]

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-29-2007, 12:00 AM

Other than offering your customers 7 free character slots, is there really a point to the test servers. I would love to get on the test servers and help test new content, however, there is no way for me to test even a fraction of the content with each test server change. A TEST server should not be considered a "functioning economy". The purpose of a TEST server is for those who choose to TRY and find mistakes, balance issues, ect. A TEST server should allow all those participating in the test the ability to be whatever class/level they choose by simply speaking with an NPC or the like and saying, "I want to be a lvl XXX profession XXX" generally a level and profession that has had new content introduced or changes made to existing content so that those things can be, well, tested. As well as for new zones/quests/changes to quests/ect, a player should be able to choose a level appropriate of any of the professions to test those changes as well. Having a functioning economy on a test server does not allow your "test server" customers the opportunity to truely test any content. In fact, all this does is allow your paying customers a free 7 character slots and the option to play new content before it goes live.If Im totally off, someone please explain to me where my thinking has gone ascew.

Cryptr7997

10-29-2007, 12:31 AM

I do agree with you, but since I have an ALT fetish, I would have never said anything. But, in all honestly, I believe you are correct. I can't say everyone uses test server for the additional 7 slots, but with it the way it is now, it sure makes it convenient for people like myself who don't really want to pay the additional $ for the Station Pass.

Falkur

10-29-2007, 02:49 AM

PVP test server was the best, cause you could go talk the Fluffy Destroyer of Worlds and he'd bump you to 70 and full masters and all relic/eof gear and you could test anything, everyone was on the same lvl 70/100AA and all the gear was relic or better, best time ever had in eq2

Lortet

10-29-2007, 03:59 AM

Aren't you able to testcopy a character from your livery on "normal" servers to the test server? - so you can try out the effects on your own characters.

Alienor

10-29-2007, 04:28 AM

The point is, you can't get *any* level. If they decide tomorrow to add new T4 content, you cannot test that as you are either lvl 1 or lvl 70. I do not have any T4 characters which I could /testcopy. Testing means to the OP to test things in its natural habitat, not as übergeared lvl 70. And I have to agree.

Hellswrath

10-29-2007, 12:26 PM

<cite>Lortet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aren't you able to testcopy a character from your livery on "normal" servers to the test server? - so you can try out the effects on your own characters.</blockquote>No. That was a brief period where they had an additional test server that you could copy characters to. You cannot copy characters to the normal test server.

nat_lyte

10-29-2007, 03:48 PM

that really is a fairly good question, what is the point of the test server at this stage of the game, do they test the content sufficiently for what they are asking from the community there, does the QA team spend enough time working with the player base of the server to run down the major game breaking bugs and the players on test detail in all they can in the time allocated to em? if the awnser is yes, then you have your awnser, if the awnser is no, why not, and how can the system be adjusted to better suite the testing stage at which content arrives on test and how that stage is handled. as is now, does QA spend enough time with the community of available testers, id say no, do the players of test spend enough time working on content for specific testing projects, like unrest or SoF, the awnser is yes, the players of Unholy trinity spent dozens and dozens of trips through unrest at its various stages of completion, with solid and constant updates and back and forth contact with jindrack, who was exceptional with his responding and changing, many changes went into the zone based on feedback from UT, and the zone came out in [Removed for Content] good shape compared to how we got it( always props for jindrack). how much influence did QA have on that, honestly i dont know, i think i saw them run through it once, i did it one time with our QA guy, but thats it, what else they did i couldnt say, im sure it was something. we did the same with shard of fear, having run it at various stages of completion every day in some cases a few times for the time we had it before it went live, the zone got fixed up alot, some great changes and it came out a good zone, lyndro was the point man on that and was pretty good with his responding to our feedback and posts in the testers only forum, it came out a bit easier than id have liked but my opinion doesnt dictactate design or where they want the zone to land in progression, i simply provide my opinions and reports of anomolies in the zone, thats my part, thats it. will that continue to be the case, i dont know, as the situation on test has undergone a power flux in the recent past. but in reality, thats unrelated and this isnt really the place for discussing it. im not really much for posting in the public forums, because of posts like this, where we see nothing but a seething outlet of misplaced anger at the players of test who have wronged no one, who have done little but do their best to contribute to the health of the game in the ways afforded them by the system in place with SOE, if its bugged, it isnt our fault, if a bug gets missed, TFB we cant wont and dont dillude ourselves into thinking we will catch every bug, we( speaking for my crowd specificly) do our best to nail the bigger ones, if thats not good enough for you, then may you eat cake, but do so quietly, or lift a finger and help instead of sitting on your comfy live server [Removed for Content] about it. the system available is whats available, it may not be an ideal setup for you. but its whats there, work with it or dont, thats a choice only you can make. i know this post is going to just draw further flames from the varied corners of the forums, but be that as it may, i spoke my peace. good hunting and may anubus find you screaming.

Mon

10-29-2007, 04:14 PM

<cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>A TEST server should not be considered a "functioning economy". The purpose of a TEST server is for those who choose to TRY and find mistakes, balance issues, ect. </blockquote>Actually, I completely disagree with you. What you described sounds like a beta server. For a test server, you want people to play as they normally would on the regular servers. You need people with an investment in, and an attachment to, these characters. These people that play there as their normal server will be more apt to report issues than someone that just buffed a character up to level to try out some changes. Only people that play there normally will test the content nearly as thoroughly as is necessary. Personally, I think the test server is most effective as it is currently configured.

Cocytus

10-29-2007, 04:32 PM

Yeah, except testers don't test raid content effectively and so they never find bugs with tweaks, and a lot of times raid content somehow ends up messed up and we all have to find out the hard way with lockouts on the live servers.

nat_lyte

10-29-2007, 05:19 PM

riddle me this cacytus, if i took (being generous here) 200 completly randomly selected players from all time zones and of all play styles and all personality types,each playing a randomized class since they all started independently at varied times, and well say maybe 50 of those players will ever make lvl 70 and we plop 199 of em down in a secluded place with you, can you honestly convince yourself that you could dig through the personality conflicts, scheduling conflicts, and playstyle conflicts and put together a cohesive raid force? and added to that, the limited availablility of resources on the broker: masters, gear, adv recipe books. If you are able to tell yerself, " i could do that" given that situation, then i say congrats, its been done once before, the only group to accomplish it before was UT, but a shortage of people still limits our ability to progress. we break our backs working into new (for us) content, trying to push ever closer to the bleeding edge of content, but short handed and suffering all of the above stated maladies, what more can you ask from us? edit: annoying typo

Finora

10-29-2007, 05:20 PM

This periodically comes up. I'll have to say that I mostly disagree with the OP. Reason being, give people the option to ding to any level range, and what will they do? They'll go ding 70 with full fabled & masters and go play around at being uber. That's what people were doing when FD was beta'd on test server heh. You didn't see many people betabuffing to 50-55 to test the lower content of the pack or anything like that. Just call me cynical about my fellow players.When they made the most recent combat changes, they did allow /testcopy to the PVP test server so they could have a much larger pool of people doing testing, as it was a pretty massive change. I imagine any time in the future they intend on doing any huge changes like that between expansions, they'll probably do that again. The only times before they did major combat tweaking was with expansions so that testing fell on the expansion beta testers.On the test server as it currently stands, they can test a pretty wide variety of content just given the live on population suplimented with some part-timers that have alts there. It is true they don't get new raid content that is added in regular patches (like the throne room) tested thoroughly, due to numbers on test server. But that really hasn't happened THAT often in EQ2's history. I actually think the devs have methods for getting that content tested by players but as I've not been involved with such, I wouldn't know details. The majority of raid content that people complain about being broken is stuff that comes with the expansions, which is nothing at all to do with Test Server, that is a purely beta problem to work out.

Magic

10-29-2007, 06:20 PM

<cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Other than offering your customers 7 free character slots, is there really a point to the test servers.--- Of course there is a point to the test server. If you are into writing bug reports or feedback about balance issues, this is the server to be on! If it weren't for us on test, the people on live would get far more bugs and balance issues than they already do.I would love to get on the test servers and help test new content, however, there is no way for me to test even a fraction of the content with each test server change.--- Besides the fact that you aren't supposed to be posting in this forum since you admit to not being on test, there's no way for any of us to test everything alone before it goes live. There's a limit to how much can be tested in the amount of time that we have. All we can do is play and do bug reports as we find the need to do so. It all gets tested to the best of our abilities by the server population as a whole. The more tiers our alts can fill, the better we can test the content.A TEST server should not be considered a "functioning economy". --- Wrong! How can you test everything if you can't do everything? Vendors have bugs too. Exquisite chests drop with nice gear just as they do on live. What a shame if we had no economy.The purpose of a TEST server is for those who choose to TRY and find mistakes, balance issues, ect. --- Exactly! What I just said above! That's what we do.A TEST server should allow all those participating in the test the ability to be whatever class/level they choose by simply speaking with an NPC or the like and saying, "I want to be a lvl XXX profession XXX" generally a level and profession that has had new content introduced or changes made to existing content so that those things can be, well, tested. As well as for new zones/quests/changes to quests/ect, a player should be able to choose a level appropriate of any of the professions to test those changes as well. --- I've made requests for that but they went unanswered. In beta we had the option to go up in steps like 20, 25, 30, 35, and so forth up to 70. The down side to that was when a low-level player, such as myself who never had a toon past level 31, selects to get bumped up to level 70 without knowing how to play that level properly. It's hard to find bugs or other faults in CA's and spells when you don't know how to use them effectively at that level. There are enough of us to have at least one alt at different tiers. That's how we test the content. My alts are tier 1 and tier 2 so I can test that content range.Having a functioning economy on a test server does not allow your "test server" customers the opportunity to truely test any content. In fact, all this does is allow your paying customers a free 7 character slots and the option to play new content before it goes live.--- We get to choose how we play on test. We can either just test content and never mind about our alt's gear or we can play as we would on live. I choose the latter. So we get 7 more slots, but we can't share anything between them and our live alts. What we find, earn, and craft stay on test. There are advantages to be on the test server. Test is usually up when the live servers are down. Test gets the holiday content earlier. Test gets updates first and we try to test the changes as best we can. Test has a lower population which is a plus for soloists like myself but that is a downside for groupers. There are guilds and groups on test but not as many as on live. Another downside is that test can get a random update at any time. You can have just finished supper and have an hour to play before bedtime. You log on to play and moments later you can get a message that the server will be going down in minutes and be offline for an hour. What can you do? It's the test server! That's life here. If you join test, your characters will not get erased. It isn't a temporary environment as the name implies.If Im totally off, someone please explain to me where my thinking has gone ascew.--- I understand why you said all of that and it makes sense up to a point. Come to think of it, the game would be very boring if we could be any level that we wished. Okay, so the cure to that would be to log back onto live and play there. But I've come to like the test server for it's reduced population and friendlier people. I've played on live servers and had too many headaches. I hope that this helped to clarify my point.</blockquote></blockquote>

Vorlak

10-29-2007, 09:00 PM

should just put a beta buffer on test with no-drop/no-value items intended for that level. so you want to be level 50 talk to the guy and get the level 50 gear then go test...

xOnaton1

10-29-2007, 09:31 PM

This has been asked probably a hundred times. It's in the FAQ.Beta servers and Test PvP allow(ed) copies.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=170" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/....m?topic_id=170</a>Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-30-2007, 07:20 AM

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Other than offering your customers 7 free character slots, is there really a point to the test servers.--- Of course there is a point to the test server. If you are into writing bug reports or feedback about balance issues, this is the server to be on! If it weren't for us on test, the people on live would get far more bugs and balance issues than they already do.I would love to get on the test servers and help test new content, however, there is no way for me to test even a fraction of the content with each test server change.--- Besides the fact that you aren't supposed to be posting in this forum since you admit to not being on test, there's no way for any of us to test everything alone before it goes live. There's a limit to how much can be tested in the amount of time that we have. All we can do is play and do bug reports as we find the need to do so. It all gets tested to the best of our abilities by the server population as a whole. The more tiers our alts can fill, the better we can test the content.FYI ... I never said I was not on the test server. I said, exactly, "I would love to get on the test servers and help test new content". I currently do not feel that is my function on the test servers for the most part. Yes, I test content when I can, however there is only so much that I can do. The fact is there are only 7 character slots available to me on test, but there are 16 adventure classes, 9 tradeskill classes, 2 secondary tradeskill professions, and (too tired to think evidently) like 20 some races plus 2 genders for each. There is no way that anyone could test ALL of the content or even a reasonable portion of it. If I have a ranger and a warden on test, but they implement changest to a shadowknight and a warlock, I have no way to test that content. If my ranger and warden are lvl's 25 and 37 and they change content to their profession at level 58, there is no way to test that content. If they change/add zones for the 50-70 levels, I have no way to test that content. A TEST server should not be considered a "functioning economy". --- Wrong! How can you test everything if you can't do everything? Vendors have bugs too. Exquisite chests drop with nice gear just as they do on live. What a shame if we had no economy.Again, not saying it should not HAVE a functioning economy, but to consider it as one allows the players on test to assume they have all the same rights as the live servers, and that should not be the case. Test characters should be expendable for the fact that they are there to test content, not to play the game.The purpose of a TEST server is for those who choose to TRY and find mistakes, balance issues, ect. --- Exactly! What I just said above! That's what we do.A TEST server should allow all those participating in the test the ability to be whatever class/level they choose by simply speaking with an NPC or the like and saying, "I want to be a lvl XXX profession XXX" generally a level and profession that has had new content introduced or changes made to existing content so that those things can be, well, tested. As well as for new zones/quests/changes to quests/ect, a player should be able to choose a level appropriate of any of the professions to test those changes as well. --- I've made requests for that but they went unanswered. In beta we had the option to go up in steps like 20, 25, 30, 35, and so forth up to 70. The down side to that was when a low-level player, such as myself who never had a toon past level 31, selects to get bumped up to level 70 without knowing how to play that level properly. It's hard to find bugs or other faults in CA's and spells when you don't know how to use them effectively at that level. There are enough of us to have at least one alt at different tiers. That's how we test the content. My alts are tier 1 and tier 2 so I can test that content range.Having a functioning economy on a test server does not allow your "test server" customers the opportunity to truely test any content. In fact, all this does is allow your paying customers a free 7 character slots and the option to play new content before it goes live.--- We get to choose how we play on test. We can either just test content and never mind about our alt's gear or we can play as we would on live. I choose the latter. So we get 7 more slots, but we can't share anything between them and our live alts. What we find, earn, and craft stay on test. There are advantages to be on the test server. Test is usually up when the live servers are down. Test gets the holiday content earlier. Test gets updates first and we try to test the changes as best we can. Test has a lower population which is a plus for soloists like myself but that is a downside for groupers. There are guilds and groups on test but not as many as on live. Another downside is that test can get a random update at any time. You can have just finished supper and have an hour to play before bedtime. You log on to play and moments later you can get a message that the server will be going down in minutes and be offline for an hour. What can you do? It's the test server! That's life here. If you join test, your characters will not get erased. It isn't a temporary environment as the name implies.If Im totally off, someone please explain to me where my thinking has gone ascew.--- I understand why you said all of that and it makes sense up to a point. Come to think of it, the game would be very boring if we could be any level that we wished. Okay, so the cure to that would be to log back onto live and play there. But I've come to like the test server for it's reduced population and friendlier people. I've played on live servers and had too many headaches. I hope that this helped to clarify my point.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

Skua

10-30-2007, 08:53 AM

<cite>Vorlak wrote:</cite><blockquote>should just put a beta buffer on test with no-drop/no-value items intended for that level. so you want to be level 50 talk to the guy and get the level 50 gear then go test...</blockquote>in the last adv pack test there were a npc to buff .... I had a lot of fun trying new classes <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />and in EOF beta there was a npc buffer too ^^seriusly test server sux , economy there is a joke...groups? raids? bleh ....

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-30-2007, 09:41 AM

To Nat_lyteim not really much for posting in the public forums, because of posts like this, where we see nothing but a seething outlet of misplaced anger at the players of test who have wronged no one, who have done little but do their best to contribute to the health of the game in the ways afforded them by the system in place with SOE, if its bugged, it isnt our fault, if a bug gets missed, TFB we cant wont and dont dillude ourselves into thinking we will catch every bug, we( speaking for my crowd specificly) do our best to nail the bigger ones, if thats not good enough for you, then may you eat cake, but do so quietly, or lift a finger and help instead of sitting on your comfy live server [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it. the system available is whats available, it may not be an ideal setup for you. but its whats there, work with it or dont, thats a choice only you can make.My original post in no way attacked the players on the test server. My concern is whether content is getting tested properly using the current system and allowing the test server to continue in its current state as a functioning economy. I realize that those on test (including myself) have no control of what system they give us to test content with. My complaint is that allowing test to be a functioning economy gives those who "play" there the idea that their characters on that server are merely "extra character slots" where that should not be the case.It is my opinion (and yes, we all have them ... this is simply mine) that my characters on test server are dispensable and I should be allowed to change their race/class/level/TS ect so that I can test whatever content is needed to be tested. Having the system the way it currently is does not allow for optimal testing circumstances and therefore hinders the test server characters from properly testing the anticipated content allowing for more bugs and conflicts to slip through the cracks. It would be nice if, for instance with the shard of fear being integrated, if they would allow us the option of making a character on test that is a random class/race within the level range for that zone therefore everyone could test the content before it goes live.I like that I have the option to play the game on test the same as I do on a live server but, to me, there is very little testing I can do. I test what I can, but there is no way for one person to have enough characters of various professions/races/level to test all of the content implemented. I personally feel we should have at least one character slot on test that we are able to design based on the content being changed/added so we could test it properly. Leave the other 6 slots available to set up the test server economy so that features such as the broker and housing ect can be tested regularly, but having one slot dedicated to testing changes in professions or additional zones would be ideal so that these items can be tested and torn apart piece by piece before going live. The way it is now simply allows for too many bugs to slip through as there are not as many characters available to test the content as there would be would they allow us one character to fluxuate based on new content.

Hammerofg

10-30-2007, 10:10 AM

I agree there should be a beta buffer on test on swg you have the advantages to go back levels and choose the lvl by typing it in and be able to choose the class you wanted or needed to be to test the right content, And most people do change exactly to 70 true that is so they can test a character at its max level if they have never made one to 70 before, but being 70 also allows people to test high lvl zones even if they do get fabled out armor they can still change it out and who cares if you have master 2 spells most people buy masters or find master so most people at high lvl's or lvl lvl's are already half mastered.

dawy

10-30-2007, 10:27 AM

Anyone who plays and tests stuff out on the test server has my full respect they really do i just havent the patience to do it

Mon

10-30-2007, 02:44 PM

<cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>A TEST server should not be considered a "functioning economy". --- Wrong! How can you test everything if you can't do everything? Vendors have bugs too. Exquisite chests drop with nice gear just as they do on live. What a shame if we had no economy.Again, not saying it should not HAVE a functioning economy, but to consider it as one allows the players on test to assume they have all the same rights as the live servers, and that should not be the case. Test characters should be expendable for the fact that they are there to test content, not to play the game.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Regarding this bit, my opinion is that you couldn't be more wrong. Of course they have the same "rights" as people on the live servers, that is how SoE has the test server set up, and thus they are right in assuming it. Plus, that is the correct way to have it configured. If the characters there were disposable and subject to being wiped at any time, would anyone actually invest the time and sweat into those characters to be ABLE to find bugs and issues? Absolutely not. Your last sentence shows you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. How would they effectively test the content if they didn't play the game?I will go a step further and say that SoE should give test players free play as long as they meet a few criteria. They should play exclusively on test, if they have any characters on live servers they pay as normal. They also meet reporting quota and play a certain amount per week, like 5 hours per week minimum and report 2 issues a month, for instance. Playing full time on test can't be easy, I mean unless you are the kind of person that prefers to solo alone and doesn't like to raid. I have respect for test server raiders.

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-30-2007, 03:23 PM

<cite>Monal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your last sentence shows you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. How would they effectively test the content if they didn't play the game?</blockquote>Im sorry, but at what point did I attack you personally. I understand why you all want a functioning economy on test ... it is free character slots /woot, and as someone pointed out (and I hadnt thought of) in order to continue testing the functioning of the broker system, houseing ect, test server really DOES need a functioning economy. HOWEVER to truely test content, we should be given at least ONE "disposable" character. This would be a character slot that is made during specific times on test server when certain profession specific or level specific content is being tested. This character could ONLY be made during those times and could only be made based on specific guidlines set by the devs to test certain content. For instance, say they added 2 new spells for wardens level 66, disposable characters could be made for any class with starting level of 66. This would allow not only for us to make wardens to test the spells themselves, but also allow us to make other professions to see how well these spells effect group/raids when used in conjunction with other classes. If they added a new lvl 55-60 zone, we would be able to make a disposable character who was any profession level 55-60. If they added 10 new recipes to armorsmith spread across the entire scope of the profession, we would be able to make a disposable character who would instantly be a lvl 70 armorsmith with all the new recipes available. If new gear were being introduced, we would be able to make a disposable character who was of a profession/level who could use the gear. Of course, because of the "functioning economy" this would not work as the test servers are currently set up. Gear that is being tested would have to be marked as NO TRADE until the items go to the live servers, and any items crafted would have to be removed after the test has been run so not to upset the "functioning economy".

Bre

10-30-2007, 03:47 PM

Well I had some nice polite remarks for this, but I think I'll just throw some points out there and let it be.-We pay to be here, when I get a check in the mail from SOE I'll consider it my job.-We try day in and out to get to all the content and it is nearly impossible with the resources we have, but we keep trying regardless. Please don't belittle us for trying to help.-Would EQ2 be better off scrapping the Test Server? Who knows really. It is not something I can control.-Personally I would like to see the +50% xp dropped and Test opened up to transfers. Doing so could give Test a much needed infusion of accounts. If it doesn't work, well then at least it was tried before stronger measures are taken.This thread so far hasn't gone way off the deep end and I appreciate that. While not many, those that do call Test home can of course be defensive of it. Please keep that in mind when throwing around such things as, we should not play the game or my personal favorite, test server sux. Brega - 70 Ranger, Test ServerCo-Leader of Unholy Trinity

KBern

10-30-2007, 04:29 PM

It is amazing how people playing on tests get this offended martyr attitude when the concept of possible inadequacies of the test server are brought up.No matter how valid the points, how polite they are presented...you always have some testers who are personally insulted and fire back...well fire...since there was nothing to fire back at.A bit of advice...when people reflect on changes they want to see to the test server to better test the game, it is not an attack on testers personally all the time. So put the defensiveness on the back burner.People who choose to play on the main servers but would like to test live updates, expansion, patches, changes, etc. when they happen are not selfish, are not trying "have their cake and eat it too", or any of the other little sayings I have seen come from testers on these threads. They care about the game and want to make sure the changes going live that will affect their gameplay are being tested to the fullest. No one is perfect, no one has all the ideas, and the more people that can test changes before they go live the better.It is both valid to have the test server as it is now with perma-residents who CHOOSE to be there, but there should also be an option for temporary copies, buff buts, reverse buff bots, etc to allow people to FULLY test content changes.You all are right, most do a good job, work with what you have, and cannot solve all the game problems, but adding the ability for more people to test who dont want to live on test due to many valid reasons is not a bad thing, is not an insult on you, and would be greatly beneficial to the testing process.

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-30-2007, 05:43 PM

Let me state conclusively, I have much respect for those who do have characters on the test server and spend even a portion of their time there testing content before it goes live. My complaint is not at all with those who have characters on the test server. My complaint is with how limited WE (yes, I have characters on test too people - you seem to be overlooking that fact) are at actually testing the content before it goes live.

AratornCalahn

10-30-2007, 06:26 PM

Why test anything here, when you can test it on the live servers with more people and more bugs. This is what the developers think (it makes sense).The test server just makes sure the live servers wont all blow up when they patch them. lol

nat_lyte

10-31-2007, 06:08 AM

so far i think almost everyone so far is right in one way or another, except skua cause ya obviously cant contribute useful information or even an intelegent perspective on the conversation.the system isnt perfect, its never been perfect, but the problem isthat ya cant eat your cake and have it too as it were, the staticplayer base is important, and so is the need for specific burst testingfor new zones and ect ect. The beta buffer is not the awnser, yaend up with a chittering pack of morons playing toons they dontunderstand and running amok screwing around and swamping the bin withmeaningless garbage for feedback and bugs, cause they for the largermajority, dont have 70 toons of there own, so they came to try out theclasses (yay again skua)and copies are a great tool to be used, but the problem is, copies arejust that, copies they mean nothing to the player behind them, becausethey can do or say whatever they want without fear for personalrepurcusions cause they just go back home to their server at the end ofthe day. many of the copied players may partake of a new chunk ofcontent with there copied toon, but the larget majority are thereto sight see, or see how a change personaly effects there character,with little reguard to the actual changes functionality. the real problem with these tools, is that if you try and put them allin the same place, they cancel each other out fairly quickly, as mostof us have seen happen before. TFD beta on test, the duel button gotpolished clean several thousand times over..... and most of thosepeople never left village of shin for more than a quick tour. grantedthere were some very dedicated people working with TFD content. IIR NPU did alot of work with bonesnapper and the roost, as im suresome other guilds did aswell. but most of that "beta" isovershadowed by the circle jerk that was going on at the docks. the beta buffer, copies, and static players are all valuabletools to testing, but they dont work well together, why would peoplewanna play where they can just buff to 70/100 and be done with it andgo have fun, why does someone wanna play on a server where people comeand go every other day, it makes any level of consistency impossible.and why does someone wanna beta buff if they can copy there toon withbetter gear, leaving you with only those who dont have top shelf toonsbuffing up to go play around, your creating chaos and clutter and thusbeing counter productive. aratorncalahn actually hit the nail pretty squarely, we find the gamebreakers and whatever else comes along, in a rolling contentenviorment, your gonna get bugs, live rarely if ever gets game breakingbugs, or zones that dont work, smaller bugs that can cause a zone tobug out ect ect are inevitable, and often fixed very quickly. im not accusing anyone of a personal attk thus far, im accusing peopleof situational ignorance. if any of you think a server that has all ofthese things trying to go on at the same time would get anythingaccomplished. hang up yer posting rights and yer toons and go back toconsole games where its a prefinished product.

billit2

10-31-2007, 11:42 AM

Brega said it best -We pay to be here, when I get a check in the mail from SOE I'll consider it my jobFrom my very first steps (nearly 2 years ago) on testserver It has been stated from players, GM's, SoE, that they want the people to PLAY on the server just like a "regular" one- with the hope you would try new content as it becomes available and /bug/feedback- Majority of the people /bug and /feedback EVERY day.I know no one playing here "Just" for extra character slotsWe have enough problems on our server without having to hear every couple of weeks how "we" all sux hereand anyone reading this would get upset and respond if it was YOUR server that was being ragged on!

KBern

10-31-2007, 11:58 AM

<cite>billit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>We have enough problems on our server without having to hear every couple of weeks how "we" all sux hereand anyone reading this would get upset and respond if it was YOUR server that was being ragged on!</blockquote>See now thats where some of you people on test need to step back and honestly read what is being posted. The OP did not trash your server, or your guildies, or anyone on your server. I think a couple of posts, maybe only one here was an ignorant testers sux and so does test! type of post.Posts like this are implying their are shortcomings in SOE method of running a test server and give plausible options to improve that. It is a common fallacy of many people to get defensive when something they are part of is critiqued without truly trying to understand what is being said and why.**edit due to spelling with homonyms**

Mon

10-31-2007, 11:59 AM

<cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Monal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your last sentence shows you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. How would they effectively test the content if they didn't play the game?</blockquote>Im sorry, but at what point did I attack you personally. </blockquote>You didn't. I didn't claim you did, and I also didn't attack you "personally". You made what I felt was a ridiculous statement, and I called you out on it indicating that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about. On what planet would that be considered a "personal attack"? If you are that sensitive, you really shouldn't use forums on the internet.

Aela@Test

10-31-2007, 01:56 PM

I doubt most people play for the extra slots. I don't use any of my initial slots, so I know my guild doesn't play b/c of the slot issue. As someone who plays on test full time, I would have to agree. I think transfers SHOULD be allowed onto and off of test server. Not Copies. But transfers.(**wonders how many people who play on test full time would leave if allowed to....)

billit2

10-31-2007, 02:03 PM

Where does it say in my post that I was upset with OP??But read through and besides the "test sux" remark which i was defending myself/server over- Can you not see the tone that is implied here??We, the people on testserver are being told by SoE what a great job we do, thanking us for our work, etc, while every few weeks this "test server. what exactly is the point?" type topic spring up from the playerbase- I mean, when I played on the "regular" servers, i couldnt care less what people did on other servers, why do they care what happens on test? - We are doing the job that SoE wants us to do, not want the players want us to do- why do you all even care?-And problem with us defending ourselves?, you bet we do! Its bad enough we have to put up with this stuff on eq2 forums, eq2flames, etc- but then we have to hear it in OUR community channel (/test.test is NOT a SoE thingy, its a player made channel for testserver PLAYERS!)Never have I read anywhere- "well, whats the point of.... Guk server?"And NOTHING stops all you "high levels" to test high end raid content- the only thing we can't test, but If we could, you all would be crying "Its not fair, testserver gets to do all this content before us (WW disco etc, which we on test cannot even participate)!!"

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-31-2007, 02:32 PM

<cite>billit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where does it say in my post that I was upset with OP??But read through and besides the "test sux" remark which i was defending myself/server over- Can you not see the tone that is implied here??We, the people on testserver are being told by SoE what a great job we do, thanking us for our work, etc, while every few weeks this "test server. what exactly is the point?" type topic spring up from the playerbase- I mean, when I played on the "regular" servers, i couldnt care less what people did on other servers, why do they care what happens on test? - We are doing the job that SoE wants us to do, not want the players want us to do- why do you all even care?-And problem with us defending ourselves?, you bet we do! Its bad enough we have to put up with this stuff on eq2 forums, eq2flames, etc- but then we have to hear it in OUR community channel (/test.test is NOT a SoE thingy, its a player made channel for testserver PLAYERS!)Never have I read anywhere- "well, whats the point of.... Guk server?"And NOTHING stops all you "high levels" to test high end raid content- the only thing we can't test, but If we could, you all would be crying "Its not fair, testserver gets to do all this content before us (WW disco etc, which we on test cannot even participate)!!"</blockquote>This might be a topic that nontesters bring up often, but again, let me state .. I HAVE CHARACTERS ON THE TEST SERVER ... I AM A TESTER ... I DO NOT SIT ON MY COMFY REAR-END (as one poster suggested) ON MY "LIVE" SERVER AND COME HERE TO TEAR YOU ALL DOWN ... I AM PART OF YOU ... I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE HERE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE TESTED AS YOU DO TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FACT THAT I AM COMPLAINING.Yes, we are doing what SOE has asked us to do HOWEVER, that does not mean that there is not a more productive way to go about testing content. The current state works to a degree, but there is ALWAYS room for improvement with everything we do. I personally feel that I do as much "testing" in my characters who I play on a live server as I do with my characters I play on test. I am simply suggesting that there should be more "testing tools" available to those of us who spend the time on the test servers trying to test content before it hits live. Now, if all of you who are so gung ho that Ive no clue what Im talking about think because you that everything is perfect on test and there is no room for improvements would simply move on and let those of us who actually have ideas of how to improve on the system discuss what might be changed to make testing content easier then maybe just maybe this thread can move away from a flame fest and resume being somewhat productive.

KBern

10-31-2007, 03:01 PM

<cite>billit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where does it say in my post that I was upset with OP??But read through and besides the "test sux" remark which i was defending myself/server over- Can you not see the tone that is implied here??We, the people on testserver are being told by SoE what a great job we do, thanking us for our work, etc, while every few weeks this "test server. what exactly is the point?" type topic spring up from the playerbase- I mean, when I played on the "regular" servers, i couldnt care less what people did on other servers, why do they care what happens on test? - We are doing the job that SoE wants us to do, not want the players want us to do- why do you all even care?-And problem with us defending ourselves?, you bet we do! Its bad enough we have to put up with this stuff on eq2 forums, eq2flames, etc- but then we have to hear it in OUR community channel (/test.test is NOT a SoE thingy, its a player made channel for testserver PLAYERS!)Never have I read anywhere- "well, whats the point of.... Guk server?"And NOTHING stops all you "high levels" to test high end raid content- the only thing we can't test, but If we could, you all would be crying "Its not fair, testserver gets to do all this content before us (WW disco etc, which we on test cannot even participate)!!"</blockquote>Um..I highlighted exactly where you stated the post upset you....almost verbatim in my previous post.And no, I cannot see the tone implied here. The tone is questioning if there are better ways to test new content and changes to gameplay than the present system. It is a fair question.Your post exemplifies your misunderstanding of why there even is a test server, hence the topics validity. You keep comparing test to other live servers in the quote above.I bolded and italicized them. I feel like I am patronizing you by explaining the difference between test and live servers but you are the one who asked the question.Live servers are for live content to disperse the population of players who pay SOE to play their game. Test is where content and gameplay changes are meant to be "tested" before going live. Seems like a pretty clear difference between the two. Yes paying customers also play on test, but the difference between the intent of the servers is pretty clear.And to ask why people care how gameplay and content are tested?? Is that an honest question?And again, another rhetorical question about Guk server....but again I will answer. Simply it is to disperse the population of paying customers....pretty simple and straightforward.You seem to have this "us against them" mentality for whatever reason.

nat_lyte

10-31-2007, 03:34 PM

<cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>billit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote>This might be a topic that nontesters bring up often, but again, let me state .. I HAVE CHARACTERS ON THE TEST SERVER ... I AM A TESTER ... I DO NOT SIT ON MY COMFY REAR-END (as one poster suggested) ON MY "LIVE" SERVER AND COME HERE TO TEAR YOU ALL DOWN ... I AM PART OF YOU ... I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE HERE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE TESTED AS YOU DO TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FACT THAT I AM COMPLAINING.Yes, we are doing what SOE has asked us to do HOWEVER, that does not mean that there is not a more productive way to go about testing content. The current state works to a degree, but there is ALWAYS room for improvement with everything we do. I personally feel that I do as much "testing" in my characters who I play on a live server as I do with my characters I play on test. I am simply suggesting that there should be more "testing tools" available to those of us who spend the time on the test servers trying to test content before it hits live. Now, if all of you who are so gung ho that Ive no clue what Im talking about think because you that everything is perfect on test and there is no room for improvements would simply move on and let those of us who actually have ideas of how to improve on the system discuss what might be changed to make testing content easier then maybe just maybe this thread can move away from a flame fest and resume being somewhat productive.</blockquote> well first of all ill say this, i havent a clue who you are on test, nor do you have access to the testers only forum, and yes there is room for improvement, but this is probably not the best place to scream it from the roof tops, ya wanna have a conversation that someone with a clue will actually read, do it in testers only, dont have access, perhaps thats something ya should be looking into before ya bold red that you are a tester of note, ya dig?

billit2

10-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Please don't try to tell me what makes me upset-- As I stated, I've no problem whatsoever of the OP, and of course, I've no problem with Guk, or any other server- and of course I know WHY theres different servers, geez <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />And of course, I know theres problems with the way testserver is run, and I have ZERO problems with people thinking/ posting about suggestions to improve it- And I do know EXACTLY why there is a testserver, thank you!Why I responded is very simple- I'm tired of hearing how we all "sux" here!Believe me, If it wasnt for that ONE comment, I wouldnt have responded (Note the postcount <---)This is NOT the first post like this, not the last, but I'm tired of hearing it, very simpleIf it was YOUR server that people were talking about it, you'd be upset too, right?? at least I'd hope you care about the server you spend so much time on?Lastly- Just want to thank the people who posted with your encouraging comments- we don't do this for the praise, but It is nice when some is passed our way!

Evadne

10-31-2007, 04:26 PM

It is a moot point.It is a Test Server. Working exactly as intended. You can laugh at that comment if you like. But for those of you who have spent years, weeks, days, hours reporting bugs, testing content and living or dropping by The Test Server, good job. You have set aside your own quests, lived with broken quests in your journals and unrecoverable errors to your characters and kept on playing. You provided hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of time within your own game just to go that extra mile to feed back or bug what you can. You learned what makes an effective and helpful bug report. You understand what kind of information is really useful. And...you share that with others. You learned how to resolve your own tech issues. From your channel I hear you explain to others how to handle changes, and how to deal with graphics, UI and other errors that prevent others from playing. If you have a chip on your shoulder, well it is deserved. You make a fancy target. Lets face it, flaming is fun. All part of the game for some people. Let them have their fun. It is a social game after all, and test provides for an outlet when nothing more fun is going on. All part of the complex virtual world we all value. Most people can ask the questions about Test. Very few can answer them.In the mean time, you go on. You keep doing what you have done so well. Test the game. Play it as it is intended to be played on a Test Server that is imperfect but successful. Okay, maybe it has its ups and downs and today is not the best of times. But you have done a fine job. You know it. I know it. Put the flames, the interrogations, the faulty suggestions that you can't help but feel threatened by in perspective. You know what you have done.Xeven The Dancing Queen

nat_lyte

10-31-2007, 05:04 PM

well said, think thats a great stopping point for me at least for this thread

billit2

10-31-2007, 07:06 PM

Thanks Xeven, and, ya, thats it for me also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Hugs and Kisses to all

LadyEternity

11-01-2007, 03:45 AM

Interesting post.I have participated in testing for quite a few MMO's. From UO (constant wipes) to Anarchy Online (Nice bug reporting system with rewards for the testers). I think I have pretty much experienced quite a few different modes of Test Servers that can be put into place for a game. Some wipe, some allow copies, some allow level buffing, some allow limited level buffing, some grant gear and spells automatically, some offer a rewards system for bug reporters.In DAoC they had a thriving community. People who played and tested there were like we are here. Thier characters were 'naturally' leveled. We had guilds, tested content, RvR'd. But then people started questioning things and so on. And so...they opened up copies. Want to know what happened? The copies killed the legit tester pride in achievment (Yes even testers have pride in thier characters...hard to believe I know) and there was a mass exodus. Everyone left. And you know what? The server died. There was a slew of 'ooo lets copy' at the beginning, but then they went back home and the server was left empty and unused. It went from a few hundred testers to 5-15 players.The same thing would happen with the level buffing. People would bounce over to have fun, but once the novelty wore off, they would all disapear.My family and I play on test. That's right. We PLAY on test. I have a few characters 20 and below on live, but that's it. We play on test. We go through content at all levels and do /feedback and bug reports constantly. We've been here sense EQ2 launched. The entire family enjoys contributing. We not only test solo content, but group content and crafting. I have a level 62 Armorsmith, 62 Sage, 40 Provisioner, 39 Carpenter, 33 jeweler- 64 Shadowknight, 62 Necromancer, 56 Warden, 16 Mystic, 36 Paladin, 13 Inquisitor -just made her hehe-. My husband has his characters also around the same levels...we group...and so does my daughter. My husband has a level 58 Tailor, a level 60 alchemist, a level 47 weaponsmith. We do not raid. But I'll tell ya, I have submitted gobs of bug reports and feedback, we all have. And we test things (if it's not raiding) that we can when it's put on test. We work hard to be able to succeed here. Most times I cannot just jump on the broker and find what I need. It can be harsh. But let me tell you, none of my characters are 'disposable'. So much effort has been put in to be able to contribute it rather niffs me a bit that anyone would insinuate that any of my characters..or any other testers characters are 'throw away' or should be. By fostering a community EQ2 devs insure that there will ALWAYS be testers testing and playing on Test. Not just a bunch of patch day people who come, see, and leave...most not leaving anything of worth to show for the time they 'goofed off' on test. I'm sure a smattering of people would actually submit feedback or bug reports, but the majority wouldn't. Why? Because they use the test server as a way to SEE the new stuff before it hits live. And if there were a buffing ability it would make it more desirable for them. But not for the reasons the test server is here. Not to many people are going to say "Golly gee new content coming in on Test, I think I will go make a buff character and go try to bug test as much as possible" No. They say "Oooo I think I'll go take a peek at what's coming up" They come, they buff, they see, they leave. And this would really not make things any better...it would make worse...because it would drive away all the people that manage to make a go here on test, and continue to give thier support and time to make this game better. Blacksabath

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

11-01-2007, 09:42 AM

<cite>LadyEternity wrote:</cite><blockquote>Interesting post.I have participated in testing for quite a few MMO's. From UO (constant wipes) to Anarchy Online (Nice bug reporting system with rewards for the testers). I think I have pretty much experienced quite a few different modes of Test Servers that can be put into place for a game. Some wipe, some allow copies, some allow level buffing, some allow limited level buffing, some grant gear and spells automatically, some offer a rewards system for bug reporters.In DAoC they had a thriving community. People who played and tested there were like we are here. Thier characters were 'naturally' leveled. We had guilds, tested content, RvR'd. But then people started questioning things and so on. And so...they opened up copies. Want to know what happened? The copies killed the legit tester pride in achievment (Yes even testers have pride in thier characters...hard to believe I know) and there was a mass exodus. Everyone left. And you know what? The server died. There was a slew of 'ooo lets copy' at the beginning, but then they went back home and the server was left empty and unused. It went from a few hundred testers to 5-15 players.The same thing would happen with the level buffing. People would bounce over to have fun, but once the novelty wore off, they would all disapear.My family and I play on test. That's right. We PLAY on test. I have a few characters 20 and below on live, but that's it. We play on test. We go through content at all levels and do /feedback and bug reports constantly. We've been here sense EQ2 launched. The entire family enjoys contributing. We not only test solo content, but group content and crafting. I have a level 62 Armorsmith, 62 Sage, 40 Provisioner, 39 Carpenter, 33 jeweler- 64 Shadowknight, 62 Necromancer, 56 Warden, 16 Mystic, 36 Paladin, 13 Inquisitor -just made her hehe-. My husband has his characters also around the same levels...we group...and so does my daughter. My husband has a level 58 Tailor, a level 60 alchemist, a level 47 weaponsmith. We do not raid. But I'll tell ya, I have submitted gobs of bug reports and feedback, we all have. And we test things (if it's not raiding) that we can when it's put on test. We work hard to be able to succeed here. Most times I cannot just jump on the broker and find what I need. It can be harsh. But let me tell you, none of my characters are 'disposable'. So much effort has been put in to be able to contribute it rather niffs me a bit that anyone would insinuate that any of my characters..or any other testers characters are 'throw away' or should be. By fostering a community EQ2 devs insure that there will ALWAYS be testers testing and playing on Test. Not just a bunch of patch day people who come, see, and leave...most not leaving anything of worth to show for the time they 'goofed off' on test. I'm sure a smattering of people would actually submit feedback or bug reports, but the majority wouldn't. Why? Because they use the test server as a way to SEE the new stuff before it hits live. And if there were a buffing ability it would make it more desirable for them. But not for the reasons the test server is here. Not to many people are going to say "Golly gee new content coming in on Test, I think I will go make a buff character and go try to bug test as much as possible" No. They say "Oooo I think I'll go take a peek at what's coming up" They come, they buff, they see, they leave. And this would really not make things any better...it would make worse...because it would drive away all the people that manage to make a go here on test, and continue to give thier support and time to make this game better. Blacksabath</blockquote>I really like the way you counter the post. It was respectful and informative. Im sorry that I suggested that all test characters be "throw away". It has just been my experience that test servers are not dependable and Ive never gotten attached to my test toons because you never know what is going to happen on a test server. I realize, with all the information given through dedicated testers, that how the test server is set up now does work to a large degree. I still believe that for large content implementation that there should be a temporary character slot or ability to create a character specifically to test the new content. How they could go about doing this without upsetting the test server economy is beyond me, but it is kinda the ideas I would like to see come out of this post.

Bre

11-01-2007, 12:49 PM

"I still believe that for large content implementation that there should be a temporary character slot or ability to create a character specifically to test the new content."The have said that they will be using the PvP Test Server for large changes, just as they did with the dual wield change.Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

Kwoung

11-02-2007, 01:36 PM

For what its worth, the folks who play on Test also experience frustration and want changes made to "the system", and we offer suggestions fairly regularly to the powers that be on how to make Test server more effective and attractive. To date, little has been done towards that end, but we are currently engaged in a new round of communication and hoping something good comes of it. We to would like to see EQ2 Test become much like DAOC Pendragon(test) pre-copy, EQ Test with 3 complete raid forces (60 players each all geared out) showing up in the same zone by accident one day as well as having hundreds of other folks playing their parts of the game. Both those servers had hundreds of players logged in at any given time and while the occassional bug was still missed, those servers were a viable play option and a attractive alternative server to play on for many players, so their was a constant influx of new players.EQ2 Test has never reached that stage and playing on it is like iron man EQ2. You have to level your own crafters, forget being able to buy much of what you need off the broker and if you ever get all your spells at master level, well its an act of god, all because we do not have the playerbase to make those things happen. Without those things being available, we will never get the playerbase.. a catch 22 because of the way the game is designed. We have put forth some ideas recently to get past the inherent problems of Test, hopefully they get implemented (sooner rather than later) and Test will grow and become more effective on every level.

Frijoles

11-02-2007, 10:40 PM

I really appreciate the dedication of test players like Lady and others who've taken the time to post here (which has lent me much insight into what you guys do, how it's done, and why).<a href="mailto:IAnobabylon@Befallen" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><cite>Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:</cite></a><blockquote>I still believe that for large content implementation that there should be a temporary character slot or ability to create a character specifically to test the new content.</blockquote>I believe this is a worthy idea - as an addition and not an alternative to the current test setup - and I wonder if SOE has considered implementing it.

Astrlidia

11-08-2007, 03:00 PM

I play occasionally on test server, and I DO NOT HAVE EXTRA CHACATER SLOTS. I have the same amount of slots as I do on live, for having the station pass accounts.<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I played on Test Server on and off, and all of my characters are only tier 1 and 2, which I should really fixed that, considering most of my charactrs on live are tier 3 & 4.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> None of my characters never been bumped up to lvls 70, or any other levels, they got there by the usual grind. I resent the remark the only reason some people play on Test server is to have a lvl 70(s) character(s) without the work. Unlike test center on SWG, which they restarted a new one, because of the very reason you want to happen now. The server was out of control to the point it was useless for testing. I'm glad the DEVs decided not to let this happen on this test center. Try to follow the test copy suggetions, and give it a try, instead of begging for a character maxed out with all gear and abilities.

agentsix

11-12-2007, 11:25 PM

<cite>LadyEternity wrote:</cite><blockquote>My family and I play on test. That's right. We PLAY on test. I have a few characters 20 and below on live, but that's it. We play on test. We go through content at all levels and do /feedback and bug reports constantly. We've been here sense EQ2 launched. The entire family enjoys contributing. We not only test solo content, but group content and crafting. I have a level 62 Armorsmith, 62 Sage, 40 Provisioner, 39 Carpenter, 33 jeweler- 64 Shadowknight, 62 Necromancer, 56 Warden, 16 Mystic, 36 Paladin, 13 Inquisitor -just made her hehe-. </blockquote>This is really awesome. I like the contributing part of the equation.

einar4

11-13-2007, 01:04 PM

<cite>Vorlak wrote:</cite><blockquote>should just put a beta buffer on test with no-drop/no-value items intended for that level.so you want to be level 50 talk to the guy and get the level 50 gear then go test...</blockquote> Well the point of the test server is so that changes and updates can be tested in an environment that is as close to the live environment as possible while still being controlled. So they want a level 50 there that actually got level 50 on that test server. Loot, gear, upgrades, etc should have been acquired in that environment. They also want people that actually have grown up in that test community, with as much cohesion as possible. In short, they want people that are committed enough to the test server to actually stay, and that means people that were so committed that they are willing to level up from level 1 and play on that server from the ground up. The test servers _do_ provide a higher xp rate ( I think, I am not sure about this ). Generally I don't play on test because of "commitments" ie "friends" on the live server I play on. I have to admit that jumping over to the test server with a level 70 and doing a quick feel of content every so often is NOT a very constructive test for the dev. For spot testing of specific features, they have In House QA for. They want to find the bugs that someone is going to run into during the day to day course of just playing the game. Sure sometimes they may say, "this is new, try to break it," but for the most part they want the bugs that a formal test plan is not going to find. The only way I could see something like that as being allowed would be not a copy, but an irreversable MOVE of a character. You want to go to test with one of your high level chars? Then take the chance that he'll get deleted on a player wipe, and commit yourself to having to play that character ONLY on test and no where else.

bks6721

11-18-2007, 07:20 AM

I was going to try test server. 3 separate times I made a new character on test I did a /who all and never saw more than 30 total online. Is it always like that? It must be a solo'ers dream.

Pullo

11-19-2007, 06:46 PM

<cite>bks6721 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was going to try test server. 3 separate times I made a new character on test I did a /who all and never saw more than 30 total online. Is it always like that? It must be a solo'ers dream.</blockquote>Is it always like that, no. However, clearly before Kunark launched, Test was down to very small numbers. We have had a departure of a pretty good chunk of the old testers and the primary raid guild moved off test.I would say that test is a soloers dream, sure... it's also a dedicated groups dream. We run a consistent group and its great to zone into contested dungeons, do a /who and see your group and that's it. On the plus side, it lets some content get tested 'as it was meant to be tested.' I.E. ring events in some contested zones (Kaladim coming to mind) can be played through to see what issues pop up from a purely technical side (names not spawning correctly or frequently enough).On the down side, it means you don't usually get a good view of how zones play out when occupied (which is an important element) and it means you have groups playing through 'undergeared' pretty regularly. As an example, our team did every bit of single group EOF content... but lacked masters and some gear pieces were flat out garbage from dumb luck on drops and a non-existent marketplace.Test, as implemented, is great at providing certaint types of feedback. It's probably one of the cleaner ways of checking the single group content (which is the bulk of the game) from an 'average gear' mentality.But, with any implementation, you get good at some things and bad at others.Test, as implemented, isn't going to be good at testing cutting tier raiding and it's not going to be good at guaging difficulty for the top geared players on the live servers. Personally, I think the Test-PVP copies for binge testing with the static Test server for consistent testing is a good strategy that hopefully catches the plusses of both systems (a copy system and a static system) thus minimizing the minuses of each. Those are only my views and certainly are not shared by everyone. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EtoilePirate

11-19-2007, 09:15 PM

<cite>bks6721 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was going to try test server. 3 separate times I made a new character on test I did a /who all and never saw more than 30 total online. Is it always like that? It must be a solo'ers dream.</blockquote>The week before and right around RoK launch was wretched, it really was. I've been on Test as my primary server since February '05 and I've never seen the population that low for that long. But aside from the departures Ryahl mentioned it's also true that (1) Test, as always, got access to the expansion after everyone else, so people were off on Live exploring Timorous Deep, and (2) a lot of testers are often also in betas, so there goes half of everyone. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> We've been back up to much more reasonable numbers the past few days.

Aoelis73

11-19-2007, 11:01 PM

I always find this silly threads interesting, and I do not know why. Lets, not get a test server vs a beta server confused. The test server is part of the development cycle of a product, and with this post its apparent that the person you is trying to understand the purpose of the test server is no aware of the development cycle of "software life" as it is called. The purpose of the test server is to "test" (gasp) hence the name, test new content and changes to systems that would pose little threat on a live server, developers can test new changes, like the weapons, and combat system changes last year. The new character skeleton models will be tested on test server first. The test server is a launch pad for basically what the name of the server is "test"-- you play to test things.. The players who are testing, provide the developers with information so the can determine if they need to tweek the settings before pushing it to live server. Beta server: Well a beta server tests out the whole system (gasp) hence the name beta encompass the whole software package, enchance the reason why a character can be buff from 1-x level to test content. The content was developed, in huge chucks.. tested internally for months. and then starts the beta cycle -- close normally 9-8 months before launch and then open which is a few weeks from lanuch. The purpose of the beta is test almost everything, that has been introduce to the game, beta testers are important like testers, but testers provide developers with real-time information about changes that were planned to go live. Beta testers, just test the content, find bugs, report bugs, buff, get epic wepons and all masters and relic gear and sometimes just hang out and chat.. about not enought content on the new expansion. Both, are need and both play a part of the software delveopment cycle.