curious about parsing differences between both summoners? [Archive]

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jam3

10-28-2007, 01:25 PM

well i have a 70 conjuror who generally wtfpwns the parses by 200-300 with around a constant 25k-33k raid dps set up. Im curious if i switched to necromancer if i could keep up and constantly parse top 3 given any encounter single target or AE targets? Given i would have troubador illusionist and wizard buffs. Would it be easier or harder?some notes that i would be 100% raid specced with int/str and lifeburn and your pet aoe immunity line, also around 410 BoE.my gear is here <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=542421120" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=542421120</a>

Sabutai

10-28-2007, 01:29 PM

jam3

10-28-2007, 01:32 PM

explain your reasoning please.also conjurors upgrades looked very nice

evhallion

10-28-2007, 07:00 PM

<cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>explain your reasoning please.also conjurors upgrades looked very nice</blockquote>He can't without violating NDA. However he is also correct. As it is right now Necros are normally at the top of the raid DPS parse and you can trust this will continue.

Davngr1

10-29-2007, 03:46 AM

<cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>well i have a 70 conjuror who generally wtfpwns the parses by 200-300 with around a constant 25k-33k raid dps set up. Im curious if i switched to necromancer if i could keep up and constantly parse top 3 given any encounter single target or AE targets? Given i would have troubador illusionist and wizard buffs. Would it be easier or harder?some notes that i would be 100% raid specced with int/str and lifeburn and your pet aoe immunity line, also around 410 BoE.my gear is here <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=542421120" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=542421120</a></blockquote>maybe i missunderstood your question but it seems your asking that if you betrayed to necro, would you continue parsing the same? to that i would answer no. conj and necro are differently played to achive top parse dmg, yes if your well equiped your dmg will be acceptable but you will take a big hit beign that you will loose your curent tools and gain a whole new batch.. on the other hand if your asking if necro dps is comperable to conj dps? yes it is necros can do the same dmg that conj can. just be ready to catch slack for using your AA. unlike conj using their AA "speed casting" to top parse, when necro use lifeburn our high dmg AA all you will hear "cheap lifeburn" and "if i had lifeburn i would double my dps" and other such retarted remarks from people that dont realise that if they had our AA lifeburn they would not have theirs thus their dmg would be about the same <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Conequis

10-29-2007, 01:18 PM

Conj typically do better with group mobs on a raid, however, a good necro can still beat out most conjurors. I will say this though, on a Lyceum raid a conj gave me a run for my money and I only beat him by 50 DPS.

Mew

11-02-2007, 12:15 PM

Generally speaking, necromancers are better at hitting single target mobs and conjurers are better at group mobs. Also, necromancers are the king of DOT spells. This means that in longer fights the necro will do better than pretty much anyone (except, perhaps an assassin). On short fights necro's will do well but probably in the top 15 of the parse rather than the top 5. It takes time to stack up all those DOT's (including the DOT's from the mage pet). Other factors come into play like the kind of pet you use, the mob's resists, whether or not the necro is grouped with a troubador or dirge or a spell haste buffer or melee haste buffer. My necro is AA's spec'd like yours and has a good assortment of proc and +dmg gear and a few +crit items. Without a bard and using mage pet I typically do 1500 - 1700 dps zonewide on raids. Typically, I am in the top 7 on the raid zonewide parse. Unfortunately, I don't have any high end EoF raid gear yet. Just unlucky on the drops... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I have yet to see a single piece of Spiritcaller armor drop.

Naughtesn

11-02-2007, 02:58 PM

<cite>Conequis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Conj typically do better with group mobs on a raid, however, a good necro can still beat out most conjurors. I will say this though, on a Lyceum raid a conj gave me a run for my money and I only beat him by 50 DPS. </blockquote>I always find myself as a necro at the top of the parse with a troub/wiz, I can hold my own on grp encounters as well as single target. It is true, long fights are where we shine...this is true also of Conjies.A well played wizard, correctly buffed, always beats me though. Trouble is I rarely find myself in that raid...I am intrigued by what lies ahead with the hints of increased dps in the expansion, I have actually been preparing myself for a "rebalance".

Supernova17

11-02-2007, 03:33 PM

Aeeron I can't believe you're asking this question! /grumble "Traitor!"To each his own anyway, we've all seen good and bad players of both classes and are all biased towards our class over the opposite number. I like to think of both Summoners as reasonably well balanced and that it takes a good player to bring out the full potential of either class and not all players are capable of doing that consistently or at all. Of course this is keeping in mind differences between group setups/gear/aa/spell quality etc.I love the misconception though that Conjuror's are great on AE fights, but not so great on single targets...that's just utter bull when you've seen and/or parsed with the best and manage to score high. That's my only negative comment about this thread...most if not all of the uber Conj's on each server with just a Troub hitting 3k singles is child's play and an absolute minimum requirement for raid forces. Regardless Aeeron, you shouldn't switch. You're just now starting to hit good numbers with your Conj and it's taken you awhile to get up there. With an expansion due in a few weeks now really isn't the time to be betraying your raiding main and start the learning curve all over again. In the short term you'll lose quite a bit of DPS getting re-mastered, adjusted to the class and replacing any class specific gear you might be using and in the long term...well no one can say for certain because as was already pointed out the NDA on RoK doesn't help matters, what's in Beta may or may not go live and with such LIMITED class testing and availability of RoK gear options/masters/new spells/items etc (like the ones we use now) balance is anything but set in stone at this point.

Spakka

11-02-2007, 05:34 PM

Actually I have to disagree with one point in the last post - IMHO its a perfect time to consider switching your raiding main.My logic is thus; 1) In barely a few weeks another expansion comes out, and as levelling seems to slow the higher you get you can very well expect it will take even longer to get 70 to 80 than it did 60 to 70. This is plenty of time to learn a new class.2) ALL your spells will be replaced in the next 10 levels, rather than 14 it used to be. Previously you would still have 4 levels of master spells that would still be useful at the new cap.To me it seems a perfect time to either switch classes, or even to change your main to one of your lvl 70 alts because in a few levels of ROK play your new ROK gear will be no worse off than playing your main.Therefore the minute the expansion comes, out a fully mastered, class fabled raider is not really much better off than a regular mastercrafted and legandary EOF gear player because the gear and spells will all be replaced shortly. The only advantage the Raid player has is he will be able to solo quicker in the earlier levels of ROK due to higher spec 70 gear.On a side note: I wonder if the lvl 72 T8 mastercrafted will be better than the EOF set gear? If it isn't then there will be a lot of really hacked off crafters as there will be no call for their products in the whole of T8 ! If the T8 mastercrafted IS better than the EOF set gear then there really is no argument against switching classes if you want to.

Supernova17

11-02-2007, 09:35 PM

<cite>Spakka wrote:</cite><blockquote>Therefore the minute the expansion comes, out a fully mastered, class fabled raider is not really much better off than a regular mastercrafted and legandary EOF gear player because the gear and spells will all be replaced shortly. </blockquote>Hahahahahaha BULL! You ever been through a level increase expansion before [Removed for Content]?

Davngr1

11-02-2007, 10:16 PM

<cite>tSpakka wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I have to disagree with one point in the last post - IMHO its a perfect time to consider switching your raiding main.My logic is thus; 1) In barely a few weeks another expansion comes out, and as levelling seems to slow the higher you get you can very well expect it will take even longer to get 70 to 80 than it did 60 to 70. This is plenty of time to learn a new class.2) ALL your spells will be replaced in the next 10 levels, rather than 14 it used to be. Previously you would still have 4 levels of master spells that would still be useful at the new cap.To me it seems a perfect time to either switch classes, or even to change your main to one of your lvl 70 alts because in a few levels of ROK play your new ROK gear will be no worse off than playing your main.ten lvl's of adventuring wont teach him how to raid a necroTherefore the minute the expansion comes, out a fully mastered, class fabled raider is not really much better off than a regular mastercrafted and legandary EOF gear player because the gear and spells will all be replaced shortly. The only advantage the Raid player has is he will be able to solo quicker in the earlier levels of ROK due to higher spec 70 gear.the OP clearly asked about raiding advice, soloing has nothing to do with it. (if )he is fully masterd and other than pets and special his T7 masters are probly comperabel to T8 adept 3's if he betrays he will be stuck with T7 adept 3's at best lvling or will be droping a ton of plat on grey masters.On a side note: I wonder if the lvl 72 T8 mastercrafted will be better than the EOF set gear? If it isn't then there will be a lot of really hacked off crafters as there will be no call for their products in the whole of T8 ! If the T8 mastercrafted IS better than the EOF set gear then there really is no argument against switching classes if you want to.master crafted gear will always be *temporary* SoE has proven that in the past with T7 master crafted and have even gone back and nerfed clearly over powerd T6 gear. mastercrafted will alwasy be in demand for alt's and for filling a slot untill it can be upgraded. all in all if he betrays now depending on his standing in his raiding guild(if he is in one) will be the only reason to keep him, as a player he will be dead wieght. of course he will improve but none the less it's not a good time imo. i would wait to see waht your present class offers before making a desicion of that sort.</blockquote>

Supernova17

11-03-2007, 01:01 AM

At level increase expansions, current master spells are almost always close to their next tier Adept 3 upgrades if not better than them. The Masters are also harder to resist. The raiders will hit the ground running and grinding through content, their gear and spells WILL give them a huge advantage over the solo/group crowd period. Betraying to Necro right now is stupid Aeeron, you're just starting to parse well as a Conj. Betray and you destroy all your masters and become a newbie with all App1's and you'll be dead weight until you upgrade the spells, and even then an expansion is going to make you get all new ones. Not to mention any raiding experience gained as a Necro in these last few weeks will mean squat with another tier of raiding coming out and no amount of group leveling will prepare you for owning raid parses.

Spakka

11-05-2007, 12:45 PM

I think you guys are slightly missing my point, especially Supernova 17. My point is that if he does want to betray then doing it NOW just when another 10 lvls are about to come out, is a better time than at betraying at the level cap which is when he will be more of a hindrance to his guild raids.Furthermore your suggestion that he would be at a disadvantage by having to lose all his masters and replace them with T8 AD3's for raiding is slightly unfair because;a) he will need to replace his T7 masters with T8 masters anyway for raiding .... so losing his T7 masters is hardly a reason not to betray.b) I haven't spent a lot of time on studying this so don't flame away please but whenever I did a respec and upgraded my free M2 masters I noticed that even the M2 of a previous teir was inferior to the AD3 of the subsequent Teir (I was looking in cae I could save a rare). There was one exception to this, IIRC it was a buff spell option at 54, and I think that was an error because the others were all inferior to their AD3 replacements.c) "ten lvl's of adventuring wont teach him how to raid a necro" oh please, this game doesn't require a PHD to play. Practice on a few T7 raids while levelling up and get advice from guildies and off forums and it won't take long to be up there in T8 raids. Maybe 32 new spells to learn, and then spell timing/rotation and player management etc.... its not rocket science you know.

Spakka

11-05-2007, 12:57 PM

<cite>Supernova17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spakka wrote:</cite><blockquote>Therefore the minute the expansion comes, out a fully mastered, class fabled raider is not really much better off than a regular mastercrafted and legandary EOF gear player because the gear and spells will all be replaced shortly. </blockquote>Hahahahahaha BULL! You ever been through a level increase expansion before [I cannot control my vocabulary]?</blockquote>And you have totally missed the point which is that for raiding at lvl 80a) a fully mastered, class fabled T7 raider will need to replace ALL his gear and spellsb) a regular mastercrafted and legandary EOF gear player will need to replace ALL his gear and spellsyou see my point now ? I am trying to help the OP, if he is thinking of switching for T8 raids - better to do it now at 70 than when he gets to 80 and at least he will gain familiarity with his spell arsenal along the way. Or were you a) trying to suggest the reverse ? that he should betray at 80 ? or b) just being unhelpful and unable to resist making a snide comment

Supernova17

11-05-2007, 07:11 PM

You don't even know the OP, where as I am always reading (or responding) to his discussion and parses in the Conj board (Flames) and I'm just advising him against changing classes when there will be no real net gain of dps. Too much work for no reward. Betray away if you want, but I bet you'll regret it. /leet Beta infozAnd Sabutai you're wrong hehe =)

Sabutai

11-07-2007, 12:22 PM

<cite>Supernova17 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You don't even know the OP, where as I am always reading (or responding) to his discussion and parses in the Conj board (Flames) and I'm just advising him against changing classes when there will be no real net gain of dps. Too much work for no reward. Betray away if you want, but I bet you'll regret it. /leet Beta infozAnd Sabutai you're wrong hehe =)</blockquote>without breaking any NDA rules, necros will be king of AE dps and single target dps....sorry.

Davngr1

11-07-2007, 05:26 PM

<cite>Spakka wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you guys are slightly missing my point, especially Supernova 17. My point is that if he does want to betray then doing it NOW just when another 10 lvls are about to come out, is a better time than at betraying at the level cap which is when he will be more of a hindrance to his guild raids.Furthermore your suggestion that he would be at a disadvantage by having to lose all his masters and replace them with T8 AD3's for raiding is slightly unfair because;a) he will need to replace his T7 masters with T8 masters anyway for raiding .... so losing his T7 masters is hardly a reason not to betray.b) I haven't spent a lot of time on studying this so don't flame away please but whenever I did a respec and upgraded my free M2 masters I noticed that even the M2 of a previous teir was inferior to the AD3 of the subsequent Teir (I was looking in cae I could save a rare). There was one exception to this, IIRC it was a buff spell option at 54, and I think that was an error because the others were all inferior to their AD3 replacements.c) "ten lvl's of adventuring wont teach him how to raid a necro" oh please, this game doesn't require a PHD to play. Practice on a few T7 raids while levelling up and get advice from guildies and off forums and it won't take long to be up there in T8 raids. Maybe 32 new spells to learn, and then spell timing/rotation and player management etc.... its not rocket science you know. </blockquote>yes you obiously dont have much experiance with what it means to betray your class and you have no experiance with lvling in a new expansion. if you did you would just konw that it's a bad idea no need to study anything. for you it must be easy to top parse your guilds parser, but for most raiding guilds where it comes down to min/max to squeze evry last drop of dmg out of evry spell, he just wont be at par with the experianced necros and further more both summoners are equal in dmg. if he was to betray to assasin(i konw impossible) then yes he might be gaining an upper hand that he did not previously have. i dont konw why poeple see lifeburn as this wonderous spell, and that is probly why he is betraying. yes it brings big numbers but so does *speed casting*(conj aa dont kown name) and it does not require a healer to not be low on power or to be healing other highr priority(yes this should not be the case but it is at times). further more two conj can use it at the same time where as life burn comes with immunity to other lifeburns. i really hope SoE dosent hit us with any other big *one button* (mana/lifeburn) abillitys they are unfair to the class that they are given to since they give other classes the impression that it's some how easier to top parse with that said ability and it's really not.