Tradeskill order , money sink ...

[Odys]

I just reached  30  as a woodworker. My first city order was to make 12 shield, each one 12 silver at least(just counting the fuel i.e paper)  and  i will get 12 silver total to do 12 of them. It's almost ridiculous. It is not only boring like hell to make 12 shields but morever they steal me about 1 gold to work for them. I really start seriously about stopping to bother withtradeskill sure i made some money selling ash-item but i would have made moresimply selling all my components (the iron & mineral leather i used making useless item would probably hav sod for many gold). It's sad to see how bad is the situation, one adept 3 can sell 30 gold while a rare craft in woodworking will never really go much beyond the price of the rare component. I m too lazy to change and decome a sage but i'm really quite dissapointed.

[Lilda]

Unless things have dramatically changed in the 6 weeks since I've done a tradeskill writ, the 12s you get from the writ giver is in addition to the material cost.  You should get an auto-update upon making the 12th item that reimburses you for fuel (unless you are a provisioner who only has some fuel cost covered.)  Then you turn in the writ to get your actual reward.  When you do the higher level writs in the tier you will make different items for the writ.  Ex: two of this two of that four of those and four of the other.  In those cases you get the fuel update when each "part" of the writ is done, and the reward, again, when you turn the whole thing in.

[Mystfit]

<p>As with anything, as you get bigger, the benefits seem more obvious. I average about 6 gold above fuels costs with rush orders and I can do several an hour netting me some nice coin. But, it's more then that. TS writs offer faction, allowing you to buy a couple nice goodies depending on your home city and give guild status points to your guild, helping them to level AND they give experience, allowing you to level. All in all a sweet deal if you ask me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS. Why do provy's not get the fuel costs? Or did I misunderstand?</p>

[Corgidad]

Provisioners do get their fuel costs back... they just don't get reimbursed for dough, milk, sugar, etc.--these items are treated as "raw materials", even though they cannot be harvested, but must be purchased.

[Talz]

Writs are for faction rewards, experience and status points.  I don't think that you will ever see them have a monetary reward anywhere near what crafting for the player market has.

[Chickenlady]

I do tradeskill writs for one reason....  the extra XP you get when you turn it in...  yes the money is nice, but it is the XP that is the most important to me at the moment - I am grinding up through T7 and it is taking an age with my Carpy....  my guild is at max so doesn't need the status......but I have never noticed it costing me more to do writs than the reimbursment - if anything I make money on it!

[Calthine]

If you do not buy raws the monetary reward should cover all cash expenses - even for provisioners!  The justification for not reimbursing provisioners for water and milk and such was that they do not have to take a combine to Pristine to fill the order.

[Sunlei]

<cite>hortefoutre wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just reached  30  as a woodworker. My first city order was to make 12 shield, each one 12 silver at least(just counting the fuel i.e paper)  and  i will get 12 silver total to do 12 of them. It's almost ridiculous. It is not only boring like hell to make 12 shields but morever they steal me about 1 gold to work for them. I really start seriously about stopping to bother withtradeskill sure i made some money selling ash-item but i would have made moresimply selling all my components (the iron & mineral leather i used making useless item would probably hav sod for many gold). It's sad to see how bad is the situation, one adept 3 can sell 30 gold while a rare craft in woodworking will never really go much beyond the price of the rare component. I m too lazy to change and decome a sage but i'm really quite dissapointed.</blockquote><p>  Those writs are now ingame for earning status points for you and to help lvl your guild. Plus, you get a large additional experience bonus when you 'turn-in' your completed writ.  Those 2 things are why the writs are not considered a income sourse.</p><p>Way back in the games beginnings when were had many crafting instances for each type of crafter, then yes the writs for 50s paid like 40 golds. Those things were changed to what we have today.</p><p>yes, you'll make much more game money selling on the broker. But if you want to help lvl your guild by crafting, these writs are how it's done. And the huge bonus exp. makes leveling much much faster. Is it boring as heck to craft junk just to feed the writ-monsters?, yes I agree it is. But for the status points and the additional exp. it's worth it.</p><p>Think about all the lvl 70s doing writs just to help their guilds lvl...the bonus experience is 'worthless' to those crafters. At least you are getting bonus experience aswell as status points for your time spent. </p>

[Oakleafe]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>The justification for not reimbursing provisioners for water and milk and such was that they do not have to take a combine to Pristine to fill the order.</blockquote>Yeah, which is why provisioners say it sucks! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  If you fail to make pristine level then you have to craft again, which uses fuel that is never reimbursed.  Most crafters doing writs try to make pristine level items on all attempts (I know there are exceptions), so to have a "justification" based on failures is very strange.Personally I think it's just because they couldn't be bothered to write the code to do the math for provisioner recipes! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Anyway, provisioners aside, if you harvest your own raws and you make items to pristine level (i.e. are successful on every craft cycle) then you are fully reimbursed by TS writs/work orders.  No-one is stealing any gold from anyone.As previously posted the writs are a good way of earning status for your guild plus they give you bonus TS XP, so you level quicker than if just grinding items.  They also give you personal status, to go towards housing, horses or whatever.  i.e. They are a good thing.As a woodworker you will find that you get few recipes each level up from now on (yes, other crafters I know it's the same for most of you too) so you get limited TS XP from making the first pristine level items and the rest of the level will be made up from grinding.  TS writs are an easy way to grind plus you get a reward, status and bonus XP.As you level up you may decide to grind by making totems (another 9 levels until the invis totems unfortunately) and by making throwing weapons and arrows (i.e. the consumables of the wood working trade), rather than doing writs.  That's a personal choice that each woodworker needs to make.However, at level 30 I'd suggest to you to harvest your own raws and keep grinding the TS writs.  I think you'll realise you are not losing money (not making much either but free money is free money!) plus you are levelling and earning handy status.  Honestly, would I lie? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />BTW, if you harvest you own stuff then it's always a good idea to sell the excess even if it's for 2c as all cash is good!  Unless of course you want to pass them onto a guild friend, which is also a good gesture.

[Odys]

Oh thanks seing that i would get 12 silver i stopped half way, but if you say tht the fuel will be refunded i will do it. I still have doubt about tradeskill, legendary item from boss are usually better than the rare craft of the same tierand the material i use simly to train would sell for a lot to players. I noticed it when getting short on iron or leather, i also sold my extra iron when reaching tier 3 (or was it tier 2?) and made a lot of cash from it. As example simply selling tier 1-3 root you can make really good money.till now it was fun because levelling was fast, i was making new recipes one order and i would get to the next level. Now it seems that i will need to spend hours playing with my 6 woodmaker skills or simply doing afk non pristine items to level up. The level gap between my trade level and adventurer level is increasing   - 31/38  -   and it will probably get bigger. Wish i was a sage at my level any rare would mean 30 gold at least and i would level like  rocket with 20 new recipe per level.

[Terron]

Woodworkers do have some advantages over sages. Sages do not have a common product that sells rapidly, but woodworkers have at least 3 -  wolf totems (level 39), invisibility totems (level 49), arrows (x3 levels - though I do not know how well they do below level 43).

[Krystara]

<p>With the fuel cost on each item being reimbursed at the time, plus the coin at the end - I make money off writs.  Even as a provisioner.  I usually walk away with quite a bit more at the end of a writ-run than when I started.</p><p> But, you have to harvest your own.  If you buy your raws - you'll lose a ton on writs.</p><p>That extra xp is really nice, and I'm looking forward to finally being able to purchase some neat things soon.  Make the guild happy also.</p>

[Mystfit]

<p>My provy earned enough coin from writs alone to buy the title for each of the faction tiers. And then some, so it worked nice in that regard.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you do not buy raws the monetary reward should cover all cash expenses - even for provisioners!  The justification for not reimbursing provisioners for water and milk and such was that they do not have to take a combine to Pristine to fill the order.</blockquote>Wha... wha .... what?!?!  Seriously?  I've been neglecting my Provisioner except when I need food because it's the one tradeskill that I consider a grind through & through ... and now you're saying it could be <i>easier and less painful</i>?!?!  See, that's what I get for spending all that time in the PvP forums.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[KerowynnKaotic]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you do not buy raws the monetary reward should cover all cash expenses - even for provisioners!  The justification for not reimbursing provisioners for water and milk and such was that they do not have to take a combine to Pristine to fill the order.</blockquote>Wha... wha .... what?!?!  Seriously?  I've been neglecting my Provisioner except when I need food because it's the one tradeskill that I consider a grind through & through ... and now you're saying it could be <i>easier and less painful</i>?!?!  See, that's what I get for spending all that time in the PvP forums.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>You're not missing anything really.   Provos can stop the combine early and receive (1) item.  Crude is the longest & hardest to get through, so the few extra seconds to take it to pristine (which is what fuel prices & sell back price is based on) isn't really a big deal.  </p><p>Boy! I remember those "conversations" with Dymus trying to get them to include the milk, dough & water prices into the pay-out.  It still doesn't make sense to me and smells more of justification for a "<i>ohfudgewedidn'tthinkaboutthatanddon'twanttoredothe m</i>" booboo.  </p><p>*shrug* But, it is just a few coppers here and there and the higher tiers use less of the additional supplies than the lower ones & give a bigger "Tip" pay-out.  So, I willingly "pay" my dues as a provo (and as guild leader) to be able to level up my guild. </p><p>-----</p><p>To OP:  My WW grinds off of Arrows in between Writs.  Take a few days to harvest up a goodly supply of Metal/Wood/Roots/Pelts .. then take a few days to Craft.   With the bonus EXP on Writs you will be ahead of your Adv level in no time.   The only reason my WW isn't lvl 70 (she's 61), yet is because I keep getting distracted by other things.   At current (exp subject to change with RoK) it takes 3 rush WW writs to ding a lvl.  I don't even really do much for Pristine Bonus.  I re-stock my arrows and then do a Writ, check arrows / restock if need be / do a Writ / repeat / writ / Ding! ..  It's not rocket science.    My Sage actually took longer, mostly because Writs weren't around and since Sages do have so much pristine bonus I just started at the 1st spell and worked my way down till I dinged 70.  Now, that was boring!  Craft till out of fuel or bags full of spells / sell spells & buy fuel / repeat till ding or eyes bleed.  blah.   Hardest thing about doing my WW is finding enough Metal.  </p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>hortefoutre wrote:</cite><blockquote>My first city order was to make 12 shield, each one 12 silver at least(just counting the fuel i.e paper)  and  i will get 12 silver total to do 12 of them. It's almost ridiculous. It is not only boring like hell to make 12 shields but morever they steal me about 1 gold to work for them. </blockquote><p>What on Norrath are you talking about?  You always get the fuel costs back for the work you do.  ALL of it!</p><p>If you are spending your cash on raws, that's another matter.  Go out and harvest.</p><p>/geesh  Tradeskilling is easy ATM.  Now its a money-sink?</p>

[Croptus]

Maybe I wouldn't call it a money sink, even though its pretty close to it but its definitely not an atm.

[KerowynnKaotic]

<cite>Croptus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe I wouldn't call it a money sink, even though its pretty close to it but its definitely not an atm.</blockquote><p>I wouldn't even call it close to being a money sink.  </p><p>Money Sink means Money LEAVES the system. </p><p>Crafting Writs PAY you back for the Fuel and PAY you additional money for Completing the Quest.  Net result (even on provo writs) = Money being introduced into the system. </p><p>Assuming you Harvest your own materials, that is.   If you pay for them at broker prices, well .. that's a seperate issue and one that relies to heavily on what other people consider a "fair" price for materials.   And, even then the Money still isn't leaving the system, it's just going to someone else.  </p><p>--- </p><p>Time Sink, maybe .. Money Sink .. NO!</p>