What would bring me back to Venekor

[Errol10]

Remove level locking on Venekor.  Leave it on for Nagafen, since so many people seem to want it.  Try it as an experiment and see what happens to the server populations.. I'd pick up venekor again.Rather than slowly deleting my venekor characters so I can make new nagafen characters, because there are actually people there.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rather than slowly deleting my venekor characters so I can make new nagafen characters, because there are actually people there.</blockquote>Make friends. You'll find far more people on Venekor than you thought. Removing level locking is not the answer. Especially, when you make it an ultimatum on one single server. We're doing fine and have no desire to become guinea  pigs for such a science experiment. More people will quit than move to Naggy.I have played on Naggy.. all the way to level 30.. I had flashbacks to when I tried WoW for two weeks. We'll keep the quality.. you can have the quantity.

[seahawk]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>We'll keep the quality.. you can have the quantity.</blockquote><p>Why don't you play to tier 7 then before you make an overly general remark like that?  Anyone with half a mind can make a toon to 30, and no matter what server you play on, tier 4 and below is no idication of the <b><i>Quality </i></b>of the server.  </p><p>Having been on both servers, I will say that in my opinion, Nagafen offers <b><i>Quality and Quantity.</i></b>  </p><p> Trixee - 70 Swash *** Trixeebell 70 Warlock *** Dragonsnot 60 Monk</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>I have played on Naggy.. all the way to level 30.. I had flashbacks to when I tried WoW for two weeks. We'll keep the quality.. you can have the quantity.</blockquote>So you played on Nagafen for 2 days then? Honestly I don't care how nice the players are on my server, what difference does it make when the only people I can regularly find to kill are bots? Bots aren't nice people tbh

[Necodem]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote> We'll keep the quality.. you can have the quantity.</blockquote><p>Totaly wrong, on all pvp server you got noobs and good players, but on venekor you got too few players that pvp, so few players with skills.</p><p>I'm sorry but on Nagafen you got players with skills and more of them.</p><p>You're just one of those afraid of dying, so afraid of having a real pvp server like nagafen.</p>

[ladyvengeance]

<p>Locking Venekor will not solve anything; it will just [Removed for Content] a lot of people off. If they do that then they will have to offer free server transfers to Nagafen, and then Venekor will be even more deserted than it already is, and Nagafen will become more laggy than it already is. </p><p>Dumb idea, imo.</p>

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">this thread does to pixels what billions of tons of redundant paperwork does to trees daily</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">what are you gonna do after you downsize everyone to a single server and the population still seems to dwindle</span>? <span style="color: #339900;">finally consider some of the mechanical issues of the game instead of playing character shuffle</span>?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">roflz</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">what else killed the cat other than curiosity</span>? /<span style="color: #339900;">pause</span>.</span></p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>Consolidation killed the cat?</p><p>Hear that devs? Consolidation kills cats! Don't do it!</p>

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">no actually i was referring to nonreaction and unobservance</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">hence</span>.../<span style="color: #339900;">pause</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">ie</span> : <span style="color: #339900;">sitting dazedly looking cross eyed and pawing upward at an anvil hanging by a string</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">not only not seeing a potential pitfall</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">not only not remedying the problem</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">toying with it and making it a more likely one over time</span>.</span></p>

[Errol10]

There are clearly some issues, and while I don't really believe this would ever happen...It seems like there are a lot of people that hate level-locking, and a lot of people that defend it.  Of course, I understandwhy people like it, and really have no issue with that. It'd be nice for people who don't want to deal with it to not have to,though. so, either one group gets their way, or both do. Remove it on venekor, and sure, offer free transfers for people to nagafen.  Population is tiny, and maybe after losing lots of people, the server could actually start gaining people again, instead of dwindling down slowly forever?People asking for recommendations for pvp servers might hear something other than 'venekor is dead', 'I rerolled nagafen etc',with the 'quality vs quantity' thrown in with nagafen folks debating against that.Note: pretty much just thinking aloud some..

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">fix the string </span>(<span style="color: #99cc00;">a mechanical dilema</span>) <span style="color: #339900;">and then you can bat at the anvil all day long</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">- <span style="color: #339900;">you're gonna need a good hank of strong rope methinx</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">instead of kite string</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that all depends on whom the cat is and what they'd like holding their anvil up </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">what mechanical foundation a development team feel comfortable leaving a playerbase with</span>) <span style="color: #339900;">while it sways back and forth from being played with</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the cat is always in a state of danger during gameplay with the anvil</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">its teh mechanical foundation of teh string that determines how comfy the cat should feel</span>. (<span style="color: #339900;">this is dependent on the cat's level of perception and understanding of the mechanics involved as well as the actual mechanical soundness of the string currently holding up the anvil</span>)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">ref</span> : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_ the_Galaxy#The_Ruler_of_the_Universe" target="_blank"><b><span style="color: #99cc00;">link</span></b></a></span></p>

[liveja]

I would be much more likely to play on a PvP server, if level locking was not allowed.

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #339900;">what if level locking yeilded a lack of pvp level differential applied to the lockers?</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">that disadvantages it severely in lower tiers but doesnt remove the option.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">edit> not gonna discuss it on this thread though after there are nine pages of it on the other one.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">edit2> thats the problem with this pvp playerbase - everyone wants their niche playstyle to be the predominate focus.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">what is needed is a melding of many different playabilities.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">thats just my opinion.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">> currently level locking is only having the adverse effect it has on overall gameplay because it lacks any downside - and the most avid pvprs are using the level differentials in lower tiers and the large advantage to stifle any other gameplay nearly. </span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the mechanical problem is a lack of check valve on the level lockers...they cause too much pressure build up...dropping the differential nicely has its own curvature per the entire level range (the lower you lock the greater the disadvantage, the higher you lock, the same disadvantage effects one less in relation to the level cap...whatever the level cap is, even if it increases later, again, im sure it will.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">it also has the side effect of making more people in the open environment open to attack by more other people...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">it also brings more of an ffa feel to the ruleset, which many players ask for an ffa ruleset...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">if factioners could attack theri own as well...not kill them, just attack them (get them down to 30% or something) i threw out a bit (barely) more complete idea about it once...itd be a much more interesting ruleset.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">that, and the exile faction needs fleshed out...and the problems in factioned raidforces need fixed - without allowing all classes in both cities.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">fame and titles need to be fixed.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">BTW> if you take away the differential from level lockers and a month later you see a lvl 14 dreadnaught - then that title will mean something.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">> the problem is that beginning the system without a downside for this very large advantage...initially spoiled the pvp playerbase and locked their thinking into this is how it should be.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">- much like initially allowing any level character to exile did.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">- much like making it so when a nonranked pvpr kills a high ranked pvpr - they get no fame for it...they should get tons if they kill a much higher ranked pvpr than themselves...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">> quite often it is the cat that does not see the danger nor concieve a remedy...the cat just wants to play. cat owners that care for their pets long life and health and well being will not let them paw at anvils dangiling from a single thread of string.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">they'll rig something more appropriate for the cat to play with.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">> to me it also resembles the human race and global climatic issues as well.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">- except it aint so easy to toggle those game dimensions.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">(seeing potential problems a ways off has always tended to lead to better navigation) </span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">ref : <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_monk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">link</a></span></p><p>The central motif of <i>Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency</i> is the fundamental <b>interconnectedness of everything</b>. Many details may appear superfluous, but turn out to be integral to the plot. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chaos theory</a>, in its accessible form popularized by writers such as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gleick" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">James Gleick</a>, is therefore an appropriate context for this novel. The novel's title mentions the idea of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holism" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">holism</a>. There are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">quantum mechanics</a> references as well; phenomena of non-locality, as in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">EPR paradox</a>, make appearances.</p><p><span style="color: #339900;">/shrugs (looking for high ground).</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">/</span>foghorn</span><span style="color: #00ff00;">.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">> oops i talked about it anyway, sry.</span></p>

[Tamar]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rather than slowly deleting my venekor characters so I can make new nagafen characters, because there are actually people there.</blockquote>Make friends. You'll find far more people on Venekor than you thought. Removing level locking is not the answer. Especially, when you make it an ultimatum on one single server. We're doing fine and have no desire to become guinea  pigs for such a science experiment. More people will quit than move to Naggy.I have played on Naggy.. all the way to level 30.. I had flashbacks to when I tried WoW for two weeks. We'll keep the quality.. you can have the quantity.</blockquote>Well I have played on both servers in all tiers.  Not just to level 30.I can tell you that there are immature people on BOTH servers.  The worthlessness of 10 - 19 chat is not exclusive to Nagafen.  Venekor has more than its share of people who seem driven to ruin the game for others.While Venekor has some amazingly talented PvPers and many honest, mature, and friendly people, those can also be found on Nagafen.  Venekor may have a few less jerks, but really not that much less.  Its just that the difference in population means that you have less jerks per square meter.The differences between the 2 servers imo:Player base.  Nagafen is the default choice for new people picking a PvP server for EQ2, unless they RP, and the majority (even on Venekor) don't.  That means that there are a LOT more newbs (not n00bs) on Nagafen.  I find it the average Venekor player knows more about the game that the Nagafen player.Population.  I have actually spent 2 days LFG before in T6 on Venekor.  Yes I'm in a guild, so don't say it.  Not every guild will have enough T6s to field a group.  The problem lies in that the server itself has problems providing enough players lfg for healthy groups in most tiers.  This does not include people who are locked and in a "routine" group of friends, so please don't offer say you "have no problem finding groups" when you are really grouping with the same 5 people all the time.  In general, when you do get a group on Venekor, it can be a little more stable than the groups I seem to get on Naggy.  But the main difference is that I can get a group in any tier and any time of day on Naggy.PvP.  On Venekor I can quest/adventure/xp nearly uncontested.  I have taken a Warden to 59 with at least 70 - 80% of it solo questing.  She can go where ever she wants, whenever she wants and get things done.  That can be fun.  It can also be boring.  I have a 45 Warlock on Naggy who is fighting tooth and nail to get quests and updates.  Everywhere you go there is a chance at PvP.  If you want to ghet a quest line done, you will need to fight for it.  Than can be fun.  It can also be frustrating.  =PThe servers offer different playstyles.  That is true.  But I truly think that the difference is merely a side effect of the population.  Less people?  Means less not-so-smart talk in 10 - 19.  Less people?  Means less "griefing" (zone control?) when questing.So sorry, I love Venekor dearly, but I disagree with your blanket statement of "quality over quantity".

[ladyvengeance]

I've thought about transfering to Naggy. If the cost wasn't so high, I probably would. The problem with Venekor isn't finding a group. It's finding a group that isn't in completely noob gear. Whenever I get invited, I always have to inspect the people first, and 90% of the time they either have noob gear or no gear.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I can tell you that there are immature people on BOTH servers.So sorry, I love Venekor dearly, but I disagree with your blanket statement of "quality over quantity".</blockquote>How'd you make that decision? According to you, there is nobody on Venekor.Seems to me.. not directed at the OP.. that the only people [I cannot control my vocabulary] are those stuck at end game and [Removed for Content] off cause the rest of us are in no hurry to reach T7.In which case.. by all means.. If I had the money, I'd pay for your character transfers with such attitudes.Instead of sitting "in the clouds" and [Removed for Content] on everyone below you cause you're bored.. why not mentor down and actually enjoy some consistent PvP?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I can tell you that there are immature people on BOTH servers.So sorry, I love Venekor dearly, but I disagree with your blanket statement of "quality over quantity".</blockquote>How'd you make that decision? According to you, there is nobody on Venekor.Seems to me.. not directed at the OP.. that the only people [I cannot control my vocabulary] are those stuck at end game and [Removed for Content] off cause the rest of us are in no hurry to reach T7.In which case.. by all means.. If I had the money, I'd pay for your character transfers with such attitudes.Instead of sitting "in the clouds" and [Removed for Content] on everyone below you cause you're bored.. why not mentor down and actually enjoy some consistent PvP?</blockquote>Because you cannot pvp while mentoring?

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because you cannot pvp while mentoring?</blockquote>Good point. Jump on an alt?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because you cannot pvp while mentoring?</blockquote>Good point. Jump on an alt?</blockquote>Prolly a decent idea. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Myself, I have way too many alts and havent made it to end game on pvp yet. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Prolly a decent idea. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> Myself, I have way too many alts and havent made it to end game on pvp yet. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Ditto.. thus my stick poking at those in previous threads. XD

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I can tell you that there are immature people on BOTH servers.So sorry, I love Venekor dearly, but I disagree with your blanket statement of "quality over quantity".</blockquote>How'd you make that decision? According to you, there is nobody on Venekor.Seems to me.. not directed at the OP.. that the only people [I cannot control my vocabulary] are those stuck at end game and [Removed for Content] off cause the rest of us are in no hurry to reach T7.In which case.. by all means.. If I had the money, I'd pay for your character transfers with such attitudes.Instead of sitting "in the clouds" and [Removed for Content] on everyone below you cause you're bored.. why not mentor down and actually enjoy some consistent PvP?</blockquote>Exactly. Why the [Removed for Content] should I rush to T7 when there's plenty of pvp to be found in T1-3? This goes back to the fact that people on here LOVE to tell others how to play this game. There is no set way to play this game. If I want to make 7 level 10 twinks, I can. And there isn't a god [Removed for Content] thing you can do about it. So let us play the game the way we want and stop whining on here. Get a life.

[Naglfar]

<p>level locking is fine, so I just have to shut off 1 channel to avoid useless spam on my chat tab   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite> <cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite></cite><blockquote>Good point. Jump on an alt?</blockquote><p>Which is what we do, but that is not a solution, it's a band-aid. Jumping on an alt is like sweeping the dirt under a rug. It's still there, you just cant see it.</p><p>The problem is that so many people have jumped on alts that there is now basically no one in T7. If all those people would jump OFF their alts, then there'd be plenty of people playing in T7.</p><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Why the [I cannot control my vocabulary] should I rush to T7 when there's plenty of pvp to be found in T1-3? This goes back to the fact that people on here LOVE to tell others how to play this game. There is no set way to play this game. If I want to make 7 level 10 twinks, I can. And there isn't a god [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing you can do about it. So let us play the game the way we want and stop whining on here. Get a life.</blockquote><p>Such bitterness. Here's some bitterness of my own. How about because you're basically killing the incoming population? Because by not allowing us to affect YOUR game play, you are in effect KILLING ours? It's true that I can't make you play in T7. But I can and *WILL* complain and [Removed for Content] and moan about it until I either break my fingers, then my nose, and finally my toes from typing, or SOE do something to fix the problem (yes, there is a problem). <b><u>Twinks are a cancer on the skin of Norrath and need to be stamped out with extreme prejudice.</u></b> Or at the very least, there needs to be changes made so you people cannot sit in T2 and T3 and kill people over and over and over. I don't particularly care what this change looks like, whether they disable level-locking, or just institute a blanket deletion of every toon under level 35 with more than 3 days of game-time (note: 72 hours played, not 3 days from creation). Either one would suit me just fine, as would almost any other change which makes it impossible for you leaches to sit at those lower levels and kill this game.</p><p><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>And there isn't a god [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing you can do about it. </blockquote><p>See above, and also refer to rumours about a removal of level-locking before level 30 (35?)</p><p>P.S this is not an attack on you, I don't know you. This is an attack on your chosen method of playing EQ2, and that, stinks to high heaven.</p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remove level locking on Venekor.  Leave it on for Nagafen, since so many people seem to want it.  Try it as an experiment and see what happens to the server populations.. I'd pick up venekor again.Rather than slowly deleting my venekor characters so I can make new nagafen characters, because there are actually people there.</blockquote><p>Interesting...</p><p>Seems that you aren't playing on Venekor, yet you want Venekor to change to suit your desires?</p><p>Go to Naggy and leave Venekor in peace!</p>

[ladyvengeance]

<p>I will ask this YET AGAIN --- where the hell do you get this information that level locking is changing to level 30? I would really like to see some proof of this because I have heard nothing from the developers. If it's just a rumor, then how did it start?</p><p>Attention whiners: Removing level locking will NOT solve the population problem. You may think it will but it won't. Tons of people will quit - i'm guessing a good third of the population. </p><p>I am so sick of threads like this. I would say only about 1% of players (maybe less) actually come on here and read these forums, and they fall into 3 categories:</p><p>1. People who got ganked and come on here to whine because they expected to learn how to play well overnight</p><p>2. Level 70s who think EVERONE should be level 70 so they can gank everyone.</p><p>3. People who are bored at work and come on here to defend their right to play the way they want to (me)</p><p>And btw I don't gank noobs - when I go into DLW with my 11s they usually try to kill me first. If I know that they're new then I leave them alone. But if they attack me, then I have no problem killing them. However, I'm mostly there to kill the 14 slayers who think they're awesome.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I will ask this YET AGAIN --- where the hell do you get this information that level locking is changing to level 30? I would really like to see some proof of this because I have heard nothing from the developers. If it's just a rumor, then how did it start?</p></blockquote><p>Please re-read my post, I said rumors. If I knew any differently, I would not have said 'rumor'. It is a rumor that I like however, and the people who were talking about it are quite busy levelling to 35 so they can get their quests done without the hoards being there to gank them. Obviously they believe it's going to happen. Me, I have no proof other than their behaviour.</p><p><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Attention whiners: Removing level locking will NOT solve the population problem. You may think it will but it won't. Tons of people will quit - i'm guessing a good third of the population. </p></blockquote><p>And to that third of the population I say good ridance. I also ask, can I have your stuff? I think it'd be more like 10% anyways, alot of other people will just threaten to quit, then when nothing happens they'll keep playing.</p><p><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am so sick of threads like this. I would say only about 1% of players (maybe less) actually come on here and read these forums, and they fall into 3 categories:</p><p>1. People who got ganked and come on here to whine because they expected to learn how to play well overnight</p><p>2. Level 70s who think EVERONE should be level 70 so they can gank everyone.</p><p>3. People who are bored at work and come on here to defend their right to play the way they want to (me)</p></blockquote><p>Mostly I agree, however I would re-word option number 2 and number 3. I would have this:</p><p>2. Level 70s who think level locking should be removed. This would remove the barriers to entry that PvP has, effectively giving us more players.</p><p>and</p><p>3. People who are bored at work and come on here to defend their right to play the way they want to, but do not care about other people's right to play how THEY want to. People in option number three also see their $15/month as giving them a bigger right to have their opinion heard than the other people who are also paying $15/month.</p><p>Opinions are like arses, everyone's got one and they're all full of it. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to disagree.</p>

[Naglfar]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And btw I don't gank noobs - when I go into DLW with my 11s they usually try to kill me first. If I know that they're new then I leave them alone. But if they attack me, then I have no problem killing them. However, I'm mostly there to kill the 14 slayers who think they're awesome.</p></blockquote><p>So the fact lvl 14 is the max lvl to be able to kill lvl 10 toons doesn't mean anything ? Whatever twinks can say, lvl 14 is set to kill new players.</p>

[Echgar]

There are already quite a few threads discussing level locking and I'm not sure it was the best idea to start another.  The bickering here is getting a bit inappropriate so I think it's time to bring this thread to a close.Please remember that while you are certainly welcome to disagree with each other, it needs to be constructive and respectful.  Relying on personal attacks, insults, namecalling, and profanity to make your point is not permitted here.