Dominus? What happened to "Emperor"?

[Dreyco]

I'm a little confused.In all the previews that we are getting from various fansites, the Emperors of old are being called "Dominus".Well, what's the definition of Dominus?<p><b>Dominus</b> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Latin</a> for <i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lord</a></i>, plural <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domini" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">domini</a>) has a number of uses:</p> Other uses: <ul><li><b>Dominus</b> was the title of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clergyman" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">clergyman</a>, in particular a settled (i.e., resident) minister or parson. The title was also applied to members of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_monarchy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">English monarchy</a> after <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">election</a>, but before <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">coronation</a>.</li></ul>These Iksar weren't Clergyman, or elected Religious officials.  They were dictators, and were often referred to as "Emperor" or "King" (in Sathir's Case).So where's this inconsistancy coming from? Is it being referred to by Venril? Or are we actually going back and writing out something that was fairly established in old Kunark Lore.

[Trepan]

According to one of the iksars for the second of the Kunark intro quests, the Pilgrim states that Sathir has forbidden the worship of Cazic Thule as he has declared himself a god, and all worship should go to him.Change the history, change the context, change the truth, change reality.   All previous emperors were merely leaders of the Church of Sathir.

[Dreyco]

<cite>Trepan wrote:</cite><blockquote>According to one of the iksars for the second of the Kunark intro quests, the Pilgrim states that Sathir has forbidden the worship of Cazic Thule as he has declared himself a god, and all worship should go to him.Change the history, change the context, change the truth, change reality.   All previous emperors were merely leaders of the Church of Sathir.</blockquote>That is why I ask.  The quotes seem to be almost as though they were from books of old.  But I was hoping for clarification to the fact: Is this the Church of Sathir construing these new titles? Or are they just being changed on the fly to this new standing.

[Cusashorn]

Where'd you hear about this Dominus title?

[Dreyco]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where'd you hear about this Dominus title?</blockquote><a href="http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=1270" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Click Me</a>

[Cusashorn]

Interesting.

[hahnbard]

<p>If you notice, they talk in the present tense- they have been raised by Venril Sathir, and now serve him as his high priests.</p><p> They are called Dominus, because they are not the current Emperor. They are his council, and loyal to him for the chance to extend the Iksar Empire yet again.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>hahnbard07 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you notice, they talk in the present tense- they have been raised by Venril Sathir, and now serve him as his high priests.</p><p> They are called Dominus, because they are not the current Emperor. They are his council, and loyal to him for the chance to extend the Iksar Empire yet again.</p></blockquote>Or they were talking about that area from back then.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>Hahn's explaination is the most logical.  I find it fascinating that a lich-king has risen his descendants to serve him.  A truly terrifying thought.  It sure would be nice if there was a way we could make an iksar that is loyal to Venril.  Somehow, I don't see that happening, though.</p><p>The other thing I was noticing was that it <i>seems </i>like some of the old zones have been renamed (or perhaps given their original names), places like the Kylong Plains sounds exactly like the Dreadlands, the Kunzar Jungle sounds like it's a combination of the Emerald Jungle, and parts of Trakanon's Teeth (though admittedly, Trak's Teeth in EQ wasn't very mountainous).  The Fens of Nathsar seem to be the Lake of Ill Omen, judging by its description, but then, what happened to the Swamp of No Hope?  Did it just merge with the the swamp created by the lake?  Also, is it just me, or are their spires in the Fens?  I'm also curious to figure out if the Jarsath Wastes are part of what we knew to be the Skyfire Mountains, and if not, where exactly did they come from?  Burning Woods maybe?.  Will be interesting to explore the new lands!</p>

[Cusashorn]

Burning Woods are no longer burning. Stonewood now. Each area other than Timorous Deep covers no less than 2 of the old zones from Kunark. Since the Swamp of No Hope was right next to the Field of Bone, we can probably see it in either the Fens of Nasthar or the Kunzar Jungle.

[TaleraRis]

Kylong niggles at my memory but I can't figure out why. Aha, that's right. You got Kylong stuff from some of the dungeons like Veksar and Howling Stones. They were one of the tribes, the renegade my boyfriend tells me. It's been so long since I did anything with Kunark.

[troodon]

<cite>hahnbard07 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you notice, they talk in the present tense- they have been raised by Venril Sathir, and now serve him as his high priests.</p></blockquote>Rile's quote "Let no empire stand in my way" makes it sound like he's the one in charge at the time he said it, but the idea that they're raised from the dead is an interesting one.

[Xxile]

How can rile be raised from the grave isnt venrile in his body?  Plus rile doesnt exactly get along with venrile so if he was raised up how would that work out?

[teddyboy4]

<cite>hahnbard07 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you notice, they talk in the present tense- they have been raised by Venril Sathir, and now serve him as his high priests.</p><p> They are called Dominus, because they are not the current Emperor. They are his council, and loyal to him for the chance to extend the Iksar Empire yet again.</p></blockquote>This would make sense, except like Xxile said Venril is his son Rile's body so there's no way that Rile could have been raised. Unless of course Venril bound his son Rile's soul into another body to serve him, which does seem like something he would do, especially considering how Rile kept him from being raised from the dead for awhile it would be fitting punishment.I still don't think that's the case though. Maybe Dominus is just what the Iksar Emperors were always called within the empire and we, as outsiders, just didn't know because of how the Iksar felt about outsiders during the time of EQ?

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Xxile wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How can rile be raised from the grave isnt venrile in his body?  Plus rile doesnt exactly get along with venrile so if he was raised up how would that work out?</blockquote><p>You raise a body from the undead, you don't have to give it back it's free will. Rile would be a slave to him. Anyways. As Troodon mentioned, one of them is talking in the present-tense when he was ruling the empire back in the day.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Xxile wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How can rile be raised from the grave isnt venrile in his body?  Plus rile doesnt exactly get along with venrile so if he was raised up how would that work out?</blockquote><p>You raise a body from the undead, you don't have to give it back it's free will. Rile would be a slave to him. Anyways. As Troodon mentioned, one of them is talking in the present-tense when he was ruling the empire back in the day.</p></blockquote>It does sound like the Rile's quote could have been made back in the day when he was Emperor. But upon further analyzation of Rile's quote it couldn't have been made back-in-the-day b/c he says <i>"The glory of the past has returned! Let no empire stand in my way!" </i>and when you think about it, the Iksar Empire was at the height of it's glory when Rile was Emperor. What other glory could he have been talking about if the quote was from his first reign? Certainly not the glory of being slaves to the Sshisar, or when the Iksar were divided into tribes at war with each other. The part about <i>"let no empire stand in <b>my</b> way!"</i> certainly does seem like he is the one in charge though, quite the conundrum.Also, when you throw Chotta's (which I must say is the only name that I don't recognize on that page) quote into the mix, <i>"I have waited many ages to display my might to our foes."</i>  it makes it seem like they are making these statements in the present as opposed to when they were ruling.

[troodon]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does sound like the Rile's quote could have been made back in the day when he was Emperor. But upon further analyzation of Rile's quote it couldn't have been made back-in-the-day b/c he says <i>"The glory of the past has returned! Let no empire stand in my way!" </i>and when you think about it, the Iksar Empire was at the height of it's glory when Rile was Emperor. What other glory could he have been talking about if the quote was from his first reign? Certainly not the glory of being slaves to the Sshisar, or when the Iksar were divided into tribes at war with each other. The part about <i>"let no empire stand in <b>my</b> way!"</i> certainly does seem like he is the one in charge though, quite the conundrum.</blockquote>The glory of his father's empire, during its hay day before he became obsessed with immortality and let his rule become a lesser priority.

[teddyboy4]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does sound like the Rile's quote could have been made back in the day when he was Emperor. But upon further analyzation of Rile's quote it couldn't have been made back-in-the-day b/c he says <i>"The glory of the past has returned! Let no empire stand in my way!" </i>and when you think about it, the Iksar Empire was at the height of it's glory when Rile was Emperor. What other glory could he have been talking about if the quote was from his first reign? Certainly not the glory of being slaves to the Sshisar, or when the Iksar were divided into tribes at war with each other. The part about <i>"let no empire stand in <b>my</b> way!"</i> certainly does seem like he is the one in charge though, quite the conundrum.</blockquote>The glory of his father's empire, during its hay day before he became obsessed with immortality and let his rule become a lesser priority.</blockquote>That's what I'm saying though, the Empire under Rile became larger and greater then it did under Venril. Yeah, Venril united the warring clans and formed the Empire and he will always be the most renowned Emperor, but Rile formed one of, if not the largest navies ever seen on Norrath and absolutely dominated the seas and whatever else he turned his gaze upon. So again, I don't believe Rile would be talking about the glory of his father's empire, especially when the empire under his (Rile's) rule, it could be argued, achieved more.So I believe Rile is talking about the glory of the last Iksarian Empire in totality, meaning the glory of the old Empire, and not the Empire under his Father, has returned.

[troodon]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>So again, I don't believe Rile would be talking about the glory of his father's empire, especially when the empire under his (Rile's) rule, it could be argued, achieved more.</blockquote><p>But if it's a quote from during his lifetime, it would have been made before the height of his own empire (since he died at its height).  It would have been stated some time prior to then, when it had become obvious that his empire would be able to match and possibly surpass that of his father.</p><p>I'm not saying the resurrected-leader thing is wrong; it's possible, and I think it would be pretty cool, but I don't personally find the quotes we've been given to be terribly convincing.</p>

[Kander]

The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.</blockquote>Would it be appropriate to name a ruler of a City-State as Dominus?

[Jindrack]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.</blockquote>Would it be appropriate to name a ruler of a City-State as Dominus?</blockquote><p>In relation to EQ2 or real world history?</p><p>There are only four Domini:  Rile, Atrebe, Ganak, and Chottal.  Each has an area of Kunark they have been charged with overseeing.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.</blockquote>Would it be appropriate to name a ruler of a City-State as Dominus?</blockquote><p>In relation to EQ2 or real world history?</p><p>There are only four Domini:  Rile, Atrebe, Ganak, and Chottal.  Each has an area of Kunark they have been charged with overseeing.</p></blockquote>So that's why I saw Dominous Ganak overseeing/ruling the sea port in the Jarsath Wastes.  He looked like one super nasty iksar and i'm curious if he is part lich.  It deffinately appears as if he is a SK, but for some reason he has glowing red eyes.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.</blockquote>Would it be appropriate to name a ruler of a City-State as Dominus?</blockquote><p>In relation to EQ2 or real world history?</p><p>There are only four Domini:  Rile, Atrebe, Ganak, and Chottal.  Each has an area of Kunark they have been charged with overseeing.</p></blockquote>I ment just in general. Lets say that Ancient Rome was divided into Ancient Greece's city-states. Would Dominus apply there?

[Themaginator]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>The title of Dominus goes back further then where you are looking. It was a title of sovereignty under the Roman Republic and became the official title of Roman Emperors under the reign of Diocletian (284 to 305 AD). Much later it became a title for Lords then an academic title as well. Our use of this title is Emperor but not the current emperor. They are basically demi-emperors who rank just below Emperor Sathir and much higher then a standard General of Armies.</blockquote>Would it be appropriate to name a ruler of a City-State as Dominus?</blockquote><p>In relation to EQ2 or real world history?</p><p>There are only four Domini:  Rile, Atrebe, Ganak, and Chottal.  Each has an area of Kunark they have been charged with overseeing.</p></blockquote>So that's why I saw Dominous Ganak overseeing/ruling the sea port in the Jarsath Wastes.  He looked like one super nasty iksar and i'm curious if he is part lich.  It deffinately appears as if he is a SK, but for some reason he has glowing red eyes. </blockquote>hmmm on beta i looked ALLLL over the shipyards and couldnt find him, where is he?

[Kander]

<p >Technically, Dominus is a Latin word for master or owner. The Greek word was Despotes. </p> <p >Our meaning in our world is Demi-Emperor or Vice-Emperor.</p>

[Rainmare]

So Venril brought back 4 dead emperors, probably the ones he thought were the 'greatest' and gave each one of them an area of his empire to oversee.Chottal was the one that made the sarnak and sokokar I think, and Rile was the one that created the iksar navy..what are the other two really known for?

[Sylaz]

Rile was Venril's first son, the one who killed him and interrupted the ritual the first time, and Venril is using his original body.Atrebe was Rile's first son, and he created the Sarnak and Sokokar.Ganak was Atrebe's son, and he died along with Jaled-Dar during an aerial battle over what has become the Field of Bone.Emperor Chottal was in Old Sebilis back in EQ1. It is strange seeing as how Venril was the first emperor, and the Sathir line died out with Ganak when the dragons destroyed the palace and his entire brood. After that the Emerald Circle was formed, and there were no more emperors, so how did this guy come to bear the title of one?Unless there was a retcon or some added lore I'm not aware of, Chottal doesn't make much sense. (more going by his name in EQ1 than being given territory to oversee by Venril)

[Hagran]

I think that you would find that all of the Dominus's are now liches, they certainly dont walk among the living.. well they do.. but they died.. so some how Venril Sathir has risen his decendants to bolster the Empire, i kinda like it, surely the Dragons are gonna be a bit intimidated by all 5 Sathir's!

[Kander]

Actually Chottal was a Sathir and he was an Emperor for a very short reign.  This all occured within the same timeline as Ganak's Darslaying days or within the same year. Vhalen would know more about how it unfolded, I'll ask him and get back to you. lol

[troodon]

<p>This thread has the highest dev post/post ratio I've ever seen.  I like it.</p><p><cite>Rainy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Chottal was the one that made the sarnak and sokokar I think</blockquote><p>That was Atrebe</p>

[Jindrack]

<cite>Kardoz@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rile was Venril's first son, the one who killed him and interrupted the ritual the first time, and Venril is using his original body.Atrebe was Rile's first son, and he created the Sarnak and Sokokar.Ganak was Atrebe's son, and he died along with Jaled-Dar during an aerial battle over what has become the Field of Bone.Emperor Chottal was in Old Sebilis back in EQ1. It is strange seeing as how Venril was the first emperor, and the Sathir line died out with Ganak when the dragons destroyed the palace and his entire brood. After that the Emerald Circle was formed, and there were no more emperors, so how did this guy come to bear the title of one?Unless there was a retcon or some added lore I'm not aware of, Chottal doesn't make much sense. (more going by his name in EQ1 than being given territory to oversee by Venril)</blockquote>Chottal was Ganak's son and was the last of the Sathir line.  Following his death the Emerald Circle was formed.  Check your old Ruins of Kunark manual for a snippet of this lore.

[Sylaz]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kardoz@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rile was Venril's first son, the one who killed him and interrupted the ritual the first time, and Venril is using his original body.Atrebe was Rile's first son, and he created the Sarnak and Sokokar.Ganak was Atrebe's son, and he died along with Jaled-Dar during an aerial battle over what has become the Field of Bone.Emperor Chottal was in Old Sebilis back in EQ1. It is strange seeing as how Venril was the first emperor, and the Sathir line died out with Ganak when the dragons destroyed the palace and his entire brood. After that the Emerald Circle was formed, and there were no more emperors, so how did this guy come to bear the title of one?Unless there was a retcon or some added lore I'm not aware of, Chottal doesn't make much sense. (more going by his name in EQ1 than being given territory to oversee by Venril)</blockquote>Chottal was Ganak's son and was the last of the Sathir line.  Following his death the Emerald Circle was formed.  Check your old Ruins of Kunark manual for a snippet of this lore.</blockquote>Well, that's where I got what I knew from, to quote the manual:<i>"The war ended inconclusively over the Field of Bone with aerial duel between Ganak on his Sokokar mount and Jaled-Dar, then leader of the Ring of Scale. Both were incinerated by magic and fire.The Dragons retreated, but not before destroying the imperial palace and all Ganak's hatchlings in a daring final blaze of revenge.<b>The Emerald Circle</b>Instead of a new king, the Iksar nobles created the Emerald Circle..."</i>No mention of Chottal at all. Of course, the manual also refers to the Iksar's masters as "Shissir." Thanks for the info though.