Exiles and RoK

[Istaril]

Ok, it's been mentioned before - but completely un-addressed. And it does happen to be a PvP focussed issue, so if this is the wrong forum for it, feel free to move this.Everyone is well aware that to raid high end content, you are at a significant set-back if you are limited to classes from only one city. These are drawbacks that can be overcome, but a solution presented itself - exile, and gain access to all classes. Some losses - access to a healthy market, city rewards (signets etc), access to certain quests (Claymore), PvP rewards (Status, Faction, PvP items, Tokens, Experience), the level independent ganking, the cities... and some plusses - access to all classes, ability to pvp independant of faction. Fine - it seems an acceptable trade-off.But with major changes en-route, an expansion, exiles begin to cringe. What will we not have access to? Guild houses? Will they be required for certain raids? Will they be required for the AA-swapping mechanism? Will haven tradeskillers be unable to buy their books? Will there be major questlines that exiles cannot complete?These are not concerns most people have to worry about - Freeport and Qeynos are well taken care of and populous on all servers. Exiles form a small minority of a single server... and (rightly) worry about being overlooked.Even if Nagafen is well represented on Beta, it's likley exiles are not. Essentially, the time before the expansion comes out is the time we exiles need to know this - to know whether we must leave our classes and haven behind to progress right out of the starting gate. If some glaring omission - like a way for Exiles to get to RoK, or an NPC that has a city-dependent script who won't talk to exiles - is overlooked...All I'm really hoping for is a developer who can say "Hey, don't worry, Exile will continue to be a viable option, they're being looked after". Whether we continue with some drawbacks is fine - but if raid or character progression is severely hampered (or will be) by Exiled faction, we deserved to be warned well in advance. Or given a luxury ticket out of our hole in the ground.Patch Note for RoK:Haven has now been moved to under Solusek's eye, to keep exiles warm for the winter months. The roof is a bit leaky... we're sorry.

[Akran]

This is a legitimate concern for exiles on PVP servers. Please give us some sort of answer, no matter how brief. kkthx <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mildavyn]

With the ammount of complaints and threads created about the PvP gear that they don't get access to, I'd be shocked if they are unable to access the PvP rewards in RoK. They'd almost have to miss out on SOMETHING though, otherwise there'll be a mass exodus from the cities in order to gain access to all classes for raiding.

[Pelda]

Exile shouldn't be a viable option and they should take away more things for that faction instead of giving more. 

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Peldaar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exile shouldn't be a viable option and they should take away more things for that faction instead of giving more.  </blockquote>Agree in principle, but it's going to annoy ALOT of people if they were to change it now.

[Siphar]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Peldaar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exile shouldn't be a viable option and they should take away more things for that faction instead of giving more.  </blockquote>Agree in principle, but it's going to annoy ALOT of people if they were to change it now.</blockquote><p>Now?</p><p>Exile has always been a half step toward a particular city. Just because people have exploited (not litterally) the fact that they can raid all 24 classes and pvp independent of faction doesn't mean IMO that SoE should give them anything.</p><p>Sure raiding is hard, expecially contested on a pvp server. But the server is just that - a PvP server.</p><p>That is not to say PvE is no viable, because it is, and various guilds have already proven some of the hardest raid encounters are possible by a single faction. Playing on a pvp server, I am thankful for anything I can get related to PvE, I didn't go to PvP to expect an easy ride (especially in PvE aspects), furthermore as a PvP-exile, you should expect even less.</p><p>IMO, bite the bullet and join a city, playing the game how it was meant, or alternatively accept any lack of rewards in the expansion (city rewards) and focus on raiding <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> and providing tokens to the citys!</p>

[Mildavyn]

I was refering to the taking away of what they already have. By all means restrict new things from them.

[Siphar]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was refering to the taking away of what they already have. By all means restrict new things from them.</blockquote>Apart from raiding with all 24 classes and FFA PvP, what else is there to take away?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was refering to the taking away of what they already have. By all means restrict new things from them.</blockquote>Apart from raiding with all 24 classes and FFA PvP, what else is there to take away?</blockquote>Banks, fence, forming guilds, to name a few.

[Mildavyn]

<p>Ah ha! I am having an idea!</p><p>Exiles are now unable to group with other exiles who are classes of the opposite allignment. </p><p>Problem fixed, NEEEEEXT!</p>

[Akran]

If it was never meant to be a viable option, why is there a guild registrar, crafting writ NPCs, ect? It was intended to be an option for players on PVP servers, and we took advantage of that. We just want to know if it's still going to be an option when RoK is released.

[Mildavyn]

<p>All those things were added only AFTER guilds stated that they were going to go and stay exiled.</p>

[Amphibia]

If anyone knows anything about this, they are either a developer or can't say anything due to the NDA. I would guess it is all going to be the same as before, though. You'll be able to level, buy crafting books, finish all the quests, stay guilded, live in a cave and raid whatever you want. But you're probably gonna miss out on things like guild houses and PvP gear.

[Ashen-Shugar]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the ammount of complaints and threads created about the PvP gear that they don't get access to, I'd be shocked if they are unable to access the PvP rewards in RoK. They'd almost have to miss out on SOMETHING though, otherwise there'll be a mass exodus from the cities in order to gain access to all classes for raiding.</blockquote><p>If exiles got PvP gear the cities would end up in the minority I'm sure - it would effectivily render PvP titles pointless and turn the server into a FFA server (I wish). At the same time if the toeken system existed as it does pretty much the only way you'd actually get PvP gear would be farming alts in a faction .......... </p><p> Wont happen tbh</p>

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">OP</span><span style="color: #00ff00;"> :</span> its funny how you are only concerned about endgame exiles on a single server</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">instead of the faction as a whole within the ruleset</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">glx with that</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">btw anyone else want to level an exile up from level 10 and call it exploitively easy</span>?<span style="color: #339900;"> roflz you teamsters are laughable</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">some peeps sidestepped the difficulty via a loophole pretty much purposefully left there by development</span>.<span style="color: #339900;"> because guilded endgamers whined</span>.</span></p>

[Ashen-Shugar]

<cite>Akran wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it was never meant to be a viable option, why is there a guild registrar, crafting writ NPCs, ect? It was intended to be an option for players on PVP servers, <b>and we took advantage of that</b>. We just want to know if it's still going to be an option when RoK is released.</blockquote><p>which is highly amusing as certain members of your guild spent many forum hours bashing exiles about easy mode etc etc .. </p><p>back on topic I personally can't see exiles getting anything taken off them but as far as quest lines or new features go who knows .. it might only become apparent after your lvl 80 and some way into a massive quest ..</p><p>One of the big killers for Exiles might be the quality of the lvl 80 PvP gear .. if indeed it is [Removed for Content] and not that hard to aquire exiles will be at a large disadvantage in the short/medium term as aquiring raid gear takes time even for the most blubie of pretent PvP guilds. It would I guess as it has with EoF even out as Exiles get fully kitted out but it could be a painful few weeks/months</p>

[Belgue]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">OP</span><span style="color: #00ff00;"> :</span> its funny how you are only concerned about endgame exiles on a single server</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">instead of the faction as a whole within the ruleset</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">glx with that</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">btw anyone else want to level an exile up from level 10 and call it exploitively easy</span>?<span style="color: #339900;"> roflz you teamsters are laughable</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">some peeps sidestepped the difficulty via a loophole pretty much purposefully left there by development</span>.<span style="color: #339900;"> because guilded endgamers whined</span>.</span></p></blockquote><p>Greenion, just add your question / concerns about RoK and exiles from a point of view of a lvl 54 exile ranger without guild (I bet there are a lot).</p><p> And btw, lvling from lvl 10 to 70 in exile has been done before in Naggy like 8 months ago (the first time).</p>

[ailen]

<p>I did it on a dirge.</p><p>almost all solo.</p>

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">point is</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">that isnt </span>....<span style="color: #339900;">easy</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">its easy<span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>r<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> with a guild of endgamers backing you though</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the loopholes in the system are the problem</span>. <span style="color: #339900;">you are misunderstanding my comment for a putdown</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is not</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is a citation of a problem </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">a loophole</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> a large one</span>) <span style="color: #339900;">in the system</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">and<span style="color: #00ff00;">...</span>many fundamental illogical trends in the system that have been thoroughly cited prior to this posting</span><span style="color: #00ff00;">.</span> <span style="color: #99cc00;">{</span>/<span style="color: #339900;">znikrz</span>.</span><span style="color: #99cc00;">}</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that loophole should not get bigger than it is imo</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">and needs plugged at least at 70 sheeesh</span>. (<span style="color: #339900;">meaning limit a level at which chars can exile </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">it should have been like 25 and should have been in from the start</span>)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;"><span style="color: #336600;">edit</span><span style="color: #339900;">></span> you want my suggestions roflz</span>...<span style="color: #99cc00;">that is a frigging laugh</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the endgame guilded exiles as well as the teamed guilded endgamers have already made sure my suggestions didnt get very far</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">...<span style="color: #339900;">and then they <span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>all<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> come and whine more and more about pve raiding</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> lolol</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">- <span style="color: #339900;">nicely focused pvp system</span>.</span></p>

[Istaril]

The point isn't that exile was or wasn't intended to be viable.The point is that if that should CHANGE (it no longer be viable) - we should be clearly informed.In addition, the lower population means there's a much higher chance of progression being severely hampered by quests/raids/etc that we cannot complete as exiles SIMPLY because it is overlooked, and not due to any dev intention.All we need is a dev to let us know that Exiles will continue to lack some amenities but remain a viable faction. Or that they won't. But forewarning would be nice. I don't look forward to finding out in 2 weeks that (insertnecessaryraidzonehere) requires city faction.

[Greenion]

<span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">go back to teh city</span>.</span>

[jam3]

I hope we can get a guild house (or whatever for AA specs), i can tell you now that nobody in the kraken gives two [I cannot control my vocabulary] about pvp gear, we raid enough and often enough to gear anyone out from nothing to something in a month if need be. i always thought this game would be qeynos vs freeport, i dont understand how the lore gets pve players get all 24 classes, just let qeynos and freeport get all 24 its not like people play this game for lore anymore anyway.i could care less about the worthless city items, pvp gear, and that crap but i do care if our guild is not going to be able to change our AA specs, and if a guild house is needed for end game things are we going to access for it? greenion were not taking about whatever tier you play were are talking about the endgame, we dont care about half the stuff citys get but if something is actually needed like a guild house we want it. Your not even 70 but have an option thats worthless on almost everything

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #339900;">if you "need" it and only the cities have it, then go to a city.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">i will tell you now what so many have told me : it is your choice to exile and to remain exile. deal with the consequences.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">edit> oh do whine on...i think endgame guilds in exile already have enough of an advantage.</span></p>

[boon515]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900;">if you "need" it and only the cities have it, then go to a city.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">i will tell you now what so many have told me : it is your choice to exile and to remain exile. deal with the consequences.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">edit> oh do whine on...i think endgame guilds in exile already have enough of an advantage.</span></p></blockquote><p>First off, do you edit every post? Secondly, they're funny. Third, I never understood why anyone would want to have a guild in exile (end game or not) because then you go from hard mode to easy (even if not endgame). Me and the guy I duo with have been exiled since 14 (we felt we wanted at least one master before going over) and have never looked back. We don't want pvp gear, guilds, or houses because we like it to be as hard as it can. Should we be informed about any changes coming to the exile "faction"? Hmmm.....my low IQ inhibits me from understanding why that is even an issue. </p><p>edit> I would like to keep the fence and bank though. And, I hate Onyx. Not because they're tight niched or only want "quality" players (I actually admire that), but because the kill me (59 fury) everytime they see me.   Meanies!</p><p>edit,edit> I shouldn't say that about Onyx, because everyone else does the same thing.....or tries to. Sorry about that.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>If i had it my way </p><p>The only way to ROK zones would be a boat from Freeport and Qeynos</p><p>IMO </p><p>Exile was a mistake , should never have existed .</p><p>But seeing as they DO exist , should have more penalties heaped on them, to make them </p><p>what they are  EXILE .. Not some fantasy destination for end game raiders , and PvP fanatics.</p><p>Id go for </p><p>No guilds , every exile becomes part of the same guild called <EXILE> and they all wear the same tag.</p><p>No groups larger than x2 </p><p>Those who came from opposing faction cant understand the others typing.</p><p>It should only be a desired location for those who want a FFA style of PvP.  </p>

[boon515]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If i had it my way </p><p>The only way to ROK zones would be a boat from Freeport and Qeynos</p><p>IMO </p><p>Exile was a mistake , should never have existed .</p><p>But seeing as they DO exist , should have more penalties heaped on them, to make them </p><p>what they are  EXILE .. Not some fantasy destination for end game raiders , and PvP fanatics.</p><p>Id go for </p><p>No guilds , every exile becomes part of the same guild called <EXILE> and they all wear the same tag.</p><p>No groups larger than x2 </p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc0000;">Those who came from opposing faction cant understand the others typing</span>.</p><p>It should only be a desired location for those who want a FFA style of PvP.  </p></blockquote>If someone starts in Qeynos, goes all the way over to Freeport, then goes back to exile, would they be bi-lingual and understand both languages?

[Greenion]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If i had it my way </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">game designer material you are not sir</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">gl with that</span>.</span></p>

[Vydar2]

I can say this without violating NDA I believe.One.)  There is no PvP beta server.Two.)  In the Beta forums, all of these questions concerning PvP, (PvP gear, the exile issue/question, etc.) have been asked and we have not received a single answer.  We have asked all the questions here and more, and there has not been a single red or orange name answer any of them.  So once again, PvP'ers are an after thought, while PvE'rs get the majority of the attention. <p ><span class="postbody">There are 3 advantages in my mind to being an exile, and several drawbacks.</span> <span class="postbody">1.) Access to all classes.  This is a huge advantage whether you want to admit it or not.  Raid zones were BUILT with the idea of having access to all 24 classes.  PvP came in later, and it was an "oopsie!" that this wasn't provided for.  Thus the introduction of PvP gear as an alternative to gear out so that there would be a better chance of handling the tougher raid zones.  PvP gear takes a LONG time to get, especially for non scout/gank classes, and requires as much or more time as raiding does.  The PvP gear is competitive with end game raid gear, but not as good, barely, which is as it should be.  If you don't want to sacrifice this PvP gear, don't exile.  If they gave PvP gear to exiles, there would be NO advantage to being in a city and EVERYONE would exile, destroying PvP servers.  </span> <span class="postbody">       How anyone can argue that access to all classes is not a big advantage is beyond me.  </span> <span class="postbody">       Clerics= Templars were meant to be MT group, Iniquis meant to be melee dps group or off tank group.</span> <span class="postbody">       Illy's vs Coercers= coercers are meant for hate management/power management, Illy's get reactives that work inversely to coercers.</span> <span class="postbody">       Swashies/Brigands= The debuffs from both classes are very important to have, not just having one or the other.  A few of their debuffs don't stack, but others do.  Swashies get hate transfer, Brigand's do not.</span> <span class="postbody">       Ranger/Assassin= for being a Predator/Rogue class, Rangers can do limited melee and lots of range.  For fights which require jousting or melee to stay out of range, Rangers are invaluable.  Assassins get threat transfer, Rangers do not.  </span> <span class="postbody">       Mystics/Defilers= look at the AA trees.  Nuff said.</span> <span class="postbody">       Paladin/SK= while both classes are arguably disposable, they have opposing raidwide buffs which are excellent to have both of.  Paladins also get Amends, LoN, etc.  SK's get buffs for the casting speed, which is mostly beneficial in the caster group.</span> <span class="postbody">       Conjy's vs Necro's= Call of the Hero is insanely beautiful on raids.  Especially with repops in between.  Due to not having this, Freeporters have to farm Unrest for Orb of Summoning's, hoping the [I cannot control my vocabulary] hag actually drops one every once in a while.  Necro Lifeburn is very, very powerful for when a raid needs to go full burn (such as raid mobs that give you limited time to kill them before self healing).  </span> <span class="postbody">2.)  Because raiding is easier having all classes, there is a gear advantage over the factioned cities.  Argue with that all you want, but its true.  On ALL three PvP servers, exiles downed the better raid mobs first, dropped the harder contested first, etc.  There is a reason why people exile, and its not TRULY for PvP.  It gives you more targets (very few more targets tbh.  You can't kill other exiles and get anything out of it, so you still have two factions to kill, just as being in Freeport or Qeynos would warrant you), but less rewards.  If there was no advantage to exililng, and if it wasn't significant, people would stop doing it.  </span> <span class="postbody">3.)  Recruiting pool.  You can recruit from any of the 3 factions.  Freeport, Exile, or Qeynosian.  Freeporters/Qeynosians can exile without losing their masters or most of their gear (save pvp gear.)  They cannot go to the opposite faction and say the same thing, especially if they are a non neutral class.  If an Assassin goes to Qeynos and becomes a ranger, suddenly he not only loses all his spells, he needs new spells, he also needs to get new gear if he has Assassin specific gear.  Exiles can just walk away from their cities fully intact.  </span> <span class="postbody">The easiest fix?</span> <span class="postbody">On PvP servers, allow both factions to play all classes.  Allow all factions to have all deities.  Give exiles PvP gear.  This solves the all classes problem, and allows the exiles who have already exiled and would be unfairly affected by this change to get PvP gear, balancing it out for the most part.  This would still give them their slight increase in PvP targets, and allow all factions to raid effectively.  If we allow just the factions to have more classes, but do not give the exiles something in return, it hurts the exile guilds who have been exiled for some time and worked towards their goals.  </span> <span class="postbody">This may not be along with true Lore of EQ2, such as the evil shadowknights running around in Qeynos, but if its storyline that is truly the problem, its a simple fix.  This would also mean that people who wish to betray do not have to start from scratch if they spent time working on PvP gear.  </span> </p> <p align="right"> </p> <p > </p>

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">is a startling nondisclosure of uninformation</span><b><u>.</u></b></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">glad to hear all the mobs are looking neato</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">thx</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit2</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">omg that post grew into a flipping monster</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">all classes in both cities is not the answer (sheeeesh i am so tired of this discussion)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">a better solution is to offer skills that mirror those unoffered via factional class skillsets as pvp rewards. these skills are usable by the mirror class (example : a paladin would use something like an sk skill) usable only on pve targets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">we talked all that out to sheer boredom of nausium in the eof beta forum...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the teamsters dont want the exiles to get pvp gear (the exiles who raid dont need it anyway) because the exiles who raid have a raiding advantage (which is why teh teamsters dont want exiles to have pvp gear-which they dont want-the ones who raid-etc)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">so...their bright idea is to leave the exile faction alone, and allow all classes in both cities, screw any premise the game actually has...roflz.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">at this point its such a petty squabble, im just sitting back with popcorn...and tossing a few kernels around at folks that look like they want some.</span></p>

[Vydar2]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">is a startling nondisclosure of uninformation</span><b><u>.</u></b></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">glad to hear all the mobs are looking neato</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">thx</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit2</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">omg that post grew into a flipping monster</span>.</span></p></blockquote>The PvE aspect is exciting as hell and is looking great.It's the PvP aspect I'm worried about.

[Greenion]

<cite>Vydar2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that</span>...<span style="color: #339900;">is a startling nondisclosure of uninformation</span><b><u>.</u></b></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">glad to hear all the mobs are looking neato</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">thx</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;">edit2</span>> <span style="color: #339900;">omg that post grew into a flipping monster</span>.</span></p></blockquote><p>The PvE aspect is exciting as hell and is looking great.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">then i guess they have a great pve game on their hands</span>.</span>It's the PvP aspect I'm worried about.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">what are the pretensive possibilities when players stop worrying about it</span>?</span></p></blockquote>

[Dh]

.

[Ashen-Shugar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If i had it my way </p><p>The only way to ROK zones would be a boat from Freeport and Qeynos</p><p>IMO </p><p>Exile was a mistake , should never have existed .</p><p>But seeing as they DO exist , should have more penalties heaped on them, to make them </p><p>what they are  EXILE .. Not some fantasy destination for end game raiders , <b>and PvP fanatics.</b></p><p>Id go for </p><p>No guilds , every exile becomes part of the same guild called <EXILE> and they all wear the same tag.</p><p>No groups larger than x2 </p><p>Those who came from opposing faction cant understand the others typing.</p><p>It should only be a desired location for those who want a FFA style of PvP.  </p></blockquote><p>I suppose this being a PvP server and people wanting to PvP makes them fanatics..... Look at the vast majority of exiles in t7 and they never leave haven unless it;s for a raid instance so I doubt many people go there to PvP. I read an earlier post which made me chuckle about Kraken members not caring about pvp gear lol it really wouldn;t matter what faction most exiles were because they never PvP (honorable execptions go to Onyx's PvP team which is a small part of that guild and the tiny minority of Kraken that ever leave haven)</p><p> Fix the problem make Naggy FFA and lets guilds become factions.</p>

[Xova]

You know at this point I really wish they'd either make Exile as unattractive a place to be as possible, or give the cities access to all classes because I am so tired of working my butt off helping run a successful factional raiding guild, only to have our members leave and go exile/easymode.Please, Aeralik? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />*sigh*

[Gimet]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">point is</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">that isnt </span>....<span style="color: #339900;">easy</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">its easy<span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>r<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> with a guild of endgamers backing you though</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the loopholes in the system are the problem</span>. <span style="color: #339900;">you are misunderstanding my comment for a putdown</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is not</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is a citation of a problem </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">a loophole</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> a large one</span>) <span style="color: #339900;">in the system</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">and<span style="color: #00ff00;">...</span>many fundamental illogical trends in the system that have been thoroughly cited prior to this posting</span><span style="color: #00ff00;">.</span> <span style="color: #99cc00;">{</span>/<span style="color: #339900;">znikrz</span>.</span><span style="color: #99cc00;">}</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that loophole should not get bigger than it is imo</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">and needs plugged at least at 70 sheeesh</span>. (<span style="color: #339900;">meaning limit a level at which chars can exile </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">it should have been like 25 and should have been in from the start</span>)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;"><span style="color: #336600;">edit</span><span style="color: #339900;">></span> you want my suggestions roflz</span>...<span style="color: #99cc00;">that is a frigging laugh</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the endgame guilded exiles as well as the teamed guilded endgamers have already made sure my suggestions didnt get very far</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">...<span style="color: #339900;">and then they <span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>all<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> come and whine more and more about pve raiding</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> lolol</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">- <span style="color: #339900;">nicely focused pvp system</span>.</span></p></blockquote><p>Kudos to the people who level all the way...but sorry to say most 70's don't do that. Once they're finished gearing for raiding they THEN betray for easy raiding.</p><p>I'm also sorry to say I've never liked the fact that exiles could do so much. For me...good, evil...or leave the server.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Greenion]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">point is</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">that isnt </span>....<span style="color: #339900;">easy</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">its easy<span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>r<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> with a guild of endgamers backing you though</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the loopholes in the system are the problem</span>. <span style="color: #339900;">you are misunderstanding my comment for a putdown</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is not</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">it is a citation of a problem </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">a loophole</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> a large one</span>) <span style="color: #339900;">in the system</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">and<span style="color: #00ff00;">...</span>many fundamental illogical trends in the system that have been thoroughly cited prior to this posting</span><span style="color: #00ff00;">.</span> <span style="color: #99cc00;">{</span>/<span style="color: #339900;">znikrz</span>.</span><span style="color: #99cc00;">}</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">that loophole should not get bigger than it is imo</span>, <span style="color: #339900;">and needs plugged at least at 70 sheeesh</span>. (<span style="color: #339900;">meaning limit a level at which chars can exile </span>(<span style="color: #339900;">it should have been like 25 and should have been in from the start</span>)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #99cc00;"><span style="color: #336600;">edit</span><span style="color: #339900;">></span> you want my suggestions roflz</span>...<span style="color: #99cc00;">that is a frigging laugh</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="color: #339900;">the endgame guilded exiles as well as the teamed guilded endgamers have already made sure my suggestions didnt get very far</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">...<span style="color: #339900;">and then they <span style="color: #99cc00;">(</span>all<span style="color: #99cc00;">)</span> come and whine more and more about pve raiding</span>,<span style="color: #339900;"> lolol</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">- <span style="color: #339900;">nicely focused pvp system</span>.</span></p></blockquote><p>Kudos to the people who level all the way...but sorry to say most 70's don't do that. Once they're finished gearing for raiding they THEN betray for easy raiding.</p><p>I'm also sorry to say I've never liked the fact that exiles could do so much. For me...good, evil...or leave the server.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900;">i agree with you, the ease with which players sidestep the intended difficulties to gain a pve advantage in what is proportedly the more pvp focused faction in the game is/has been/and continues to be completely and utterly ludicrous.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">convenience and overindulgance killed this pvp system awhile back.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">oh well, my conscience is clear, ive only made suggestions i honestly feel wouldve been good for the ruleset as whole. they were just never trusted by the playerbase (who collectively i think suspects me wanting asome personal advantage (ingame is not what i want my reputation based on peeps...decent calls (fair and impartial) on design changes/adjustments is what id rather be known for)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">development has their own plans for this title, personally i think ignoring the pvp side of the game the way they seem to isnt wise. (im not trying to down them, im trying to be honest with them)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">after awhile players stop being concerned about it...this means two possible things :</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">they are totally content with the game (ok what are the odds of that?)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">or...they arent concerned because they have basicly given up on the game shaping up.</span></p>

[Pelda]

<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know at this point I really wish they'd either make Exile as unattractive a place to be as possible, or give the cities access to all classes because I am so tired of working my butt off helping run a successful factional raiding guild, only to have our members leave and go exile/easymode.Please, Aeralik? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />*sigh*</blockquote><p>I couldn't agree more.</p>

[Borias]

<p>Uh no.  You do realize that you are playing a roleplaying game, based on a war between 2 city/sides right?  Take this to an extreme, and make it pvp, and of course it turns into good v evil.  If you could have all classes in Qeynos, why would anyone live in Freeport?  Just to fight the Q's?</p><p>You faction folks that whine about not having all the classes have the option to go exile, and recruit/switch into those classes.  All you have to really give up is status items, and all pvp items.(including everyones fav belt!)  Those that stay might be staying for a RP reason(lol, there aren't hardcore raiding/RP guilds) or to preserve titles and pvp gear.  Really, that's about it.  If you did not care about losing your title, or pvp stuff, then anyone that really wanted to kill things knows where the raiding advantage is.</p><p>Oh I forgot, there is one other nice part about exile- no plat spammers.</p><p>Just because you don't like exile, does not mean it deserves less than what it has already.  And as far as guild halls are concerned, I think they should make 2-3 entrances around the mainland, and you can access your hall from either.  This would turn them into pvp hotspots, without being a total choke point.  </p><p>And yes, exiles should have guild halls.  It blows my mind that the same people that think Qeynos should have Necromancers, and Neriak have Paladins, argue that Exiles can't hire out some guys to make a house.  Seriously.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<cite>Vydar2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">There is a reason why people exile, and its not TRULY for PvP.  It gives you more targets (very few more targets tbh.  You can't kill other exiles and get anything out of it, so you still have two factions to kill, just as being in Freeport or Qeynos would warrant you), but less rewards.  If there was no advantage to exililng, and if it wasn't significant, people would stop doing it.  </span></blockquote>Uh.... wrong.I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.I'm exile.  I have been since level 12ish.  (I tried at 10, but as a guard I had a hard time completing the exile quest from Freeport with island gear on.. and zero cash).Anyway, my little guild was created with two purposes in mind:  Have fun and pvp.  We TRULY exiled for PvP.  More and greater PvP.  That was the sole motivation and that's the only "advantage" we have.We don't raid, and we're not interested in joining a raiding guild at any level... so exactly what advantages do I have as an exile?For people who want the most pvp possible, exile is the place to be.  I don't care that I can't finish some quests, or get PvP gear, I accept those disadvantages.  Suggesting that they take away the fence, and the guild registrar, and the banker is ridiculous just because you don't like exile.  How [I cannot control my vocabulary] egocentric can one person be? (That last line wasn't directed at the person quoted, just venting at that point). - H

[Mildavyn]

<p>If Necromancers and Paladins cant tolerate each other enough to live in the same city... how do they do it when they're living in the same hole-in-the-ground?</p><p>I've spent some time as an Exile and let me tell you, it's hard. It's certainly worth the extra work to get around the restrictions though. Having all classes to raid is HUGE. Losing the PvP gear sucks though.</p><p>EDIT: HORK!!! You guys (and a VERY few level 70s) are the exception to the rule. Most people (the VAST majority) exile to raid.</p><p>EDIT2: [Removed for Content], I feel like Greenion now... Anyways, I don't think that Exile should ever have been made into a viable faction. It is done now though, so we're stuck with it. I can also see the humongous [Removed for Content]-storm the Exiles would throw if they ever LOST anything that has been granted to them. Having said that... no guild houses, no AA swap items, nothing new for Exiles. At the momment there are almost no downsides to being Exiled. If you raid you can get better gear than the PvP gear, the broker is easily worked around, and you ahve the most targets for PvP.</p>

[zorros]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If Necromancers and Paladins cant tolerate each other enough to live in the same city... how do they do it when they're living in the same hole-in-the-ground?</p><p>I've spent some time as an Exile and let me tell you, it's hard. It's certainly worth the extra work to get around the restrictions though. Having all classes to raid is HUGE. Losing the PvP gear sucks though.</p><p>EDIT: HORK!!! You guys (and a VERY few level 70s) are the exception to the rule. Most people (the VAST majority) exile to raid.</p><p>EDIT2: [I cannot control my vocabulary], I feel like Greenion now... Anyways, I don't think that Exile should ever have been made into a viable faction. It is done now though, so we're stuck with it. I can also see the humongous [I cannot control my vocabulary]-storm the Exiles would throw if they ever LOST anything that has been granted to them. Having said that... no guild houses, no AA swap items, nothing new for Exiles. At the momment there are almost no downsides to being Exiled. If you raid you can get better gear than the PvP gear, the broker is easily worked around, and you ahve the most targets for PvP.</p></blockquote>I cant believe im saying this but i totally agree with the aussie<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Mildavyn]

<p>The SKY IS FALLING!!!</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Borias@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Uh no.  You do realize that you are playing a roleplaying game, based on a war between 2 city/sides right?  Take this to an extreme, and make it pvp, and of course it turns into good v evil.  If you could have all classes in Qeynos, why would anyone live in Freeport?  Just to fight the Q's?</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>Not that I think it is going to happen (lore issues), but if Qeynos suddenly was allowed to have all classes, wouldn't Freeport get the same thing? Or are you saying that nobody would want to have their toon in Freeport because everyone wants to live in goody town?</b></span> <p>You faction folks that whine about not having all the classes have the option to go exile, and recruit/switch into those classes.  All you have to really give up is status items, and all pvp items.(including everyones fav belt!)  Those that stay might be staying for a RP reason(lol, there aren't hardcore raiding/RP guilds) or to preserve titles and pvp gear.  Really, that's about it.  If you did not care about losing your title, or pvp stuff, then anyone that really wanted to kill things knows where the raiding advantage is.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>So you think the PvP servers should be only about who's better at killing teh internet dragons then? This game isn't just about raiding, espesially not on a PvP server. I know it may seem that way when you are living down in that cave, because that is basically the only thing people are doing there. I did the same myself for 6 months. But if everyone exiled to raid, what would there be left to PvP for? The occasional avatar? </b></span><p>Oh I forgot, there is one other nice part about exile- no plat spammers.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>Things have changed. The plat spam is barely visible now, all of it is being blocked by the new system that was introdused a while back. I haven't read a spam message from a plat seller in months.... </b></span><p>Just because you don't like exile, does not mean it deserves less than what it has already.  And as far as guild halls are concerned, I think they should make 2-3 entrances around the mainland, and you can access your hall from either.  This would turn them into pvp hotspots, without being a total choke point.</p><p>And yes, exiles should have guild halls.  It blows my mind that the same people that think Qeynos should have Necromancers, and Neriak have Paladins, argue that Exiles can't hire out some guys to make a house.  Seriously.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>I think I heard something a while back about guildhalls being reserved for the city folks. I guess we'll find out soon weither it is true or not.I doubt you guys are going to lose anything that you already have. They're not gonna force you out of there. Weither it will still be as attractive to stay exiled or not as it is now, is an entirely different question. I guess it would depend a lot on what else the cities are getting, that you're not.... </b></span></blockquote>

[Xova]

<cite>Peldaar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know at this point I really wish they'd either make Exile as unattractive a place to be as possible, or give the cities access to all classes because I am so tired of working my butt off helping run a successful factional raiding guild, only to have our members leave and go exile/easymode.Please, Aeralik? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" />" width="15" height="15" />*sigh*</blockquote><p>I couldn't agree more.</p></blockquote>My frustration is just that it's hard finding people that are actually willing to put in the time and effort to make a factional guild work. We are proving that you can raid as a factioned guild - we've had a lot of factioned firsts. But people get lazy and want to raid and get loot quickly, so they up and exile. Yeah we could go exile too, but we shouldn't have to in order to be successful.I would be fine with Exiles having access to guild halls so long as factioned guilds can have access to all classes. I'd even be fine with them having access to PvP gear in that case. But unless the raiding field gets evened out a little more for the factioned players, then no way do I feel Exiles should get the perks we do. Having all classes to raid is huge and if it wasn't then there wouldn't be any Exile raiding guilds, period.

[MaCloud1032]

From what i understand the guild halls are "gifts" from the leader of your city.  For unyelding service to your leader they give you the best house you can get in the game.  As exile who is your city leader.  Thats right you have no city. 

[Vydar2]

<cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vydar2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">There is a reason why people exile, and its not TRULY for PvP.  It gives you more targets (very few more targets tbh.  You can't kill other exiles and get anything out of it, so you still have two factions to kill, just as being in Freeport or Qeynos would warrant you), but less rewards.  If there was no advantage to exililng, and if it wasn't significant, people would stop doing it.  </span></blockquote>Uh.... wrong.I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.I'm exile.  I have been since level 12ish.  (I tried at 10, but as a guard I had a hard time completing the exile quest from Freeport with island gear on.. and zero cash).Anyway, my little guild was created with two purposes in mind:  Have fun and pvp.  We TRULY exiled for PvP.  More and greater PvP.  That was the sole motivation and that's the only "advantage" we have.We don't raid, and we're not interested in joining a raiding guild at any level... so exactly what advantages do I have as an exile?For people who want the most pvp possible, exile is the place to be.  I don't care that I can't finish some quests, or get PvP gear, I accept those disadvantages.  Suggesting that they take away the fence, and the guild registrar, and the banker is ridiculous just because you don't like exile.  How [I cannot control my vocabulary] egocentric can one person be? (That last line wasn't directed at the person quoted, just venting at that point). - H</blockquote>I didn't suggest any of that, I actually suggest making Exile a viable 3rd faction and equalizing the game by giving the factioned guilds all classes as well.  Give the Exiles pvp gear.  Give them guild houses.  Give the cities all classes.Everything is equal, and when/if exiles continue to dominate, there will be no legitimate crying/complaining from the cities. 

[Harbringer Doom]

<cite>Vydar2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vydar2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">There is a reason why people exile, and its not TRULY for PvP.  It gives you more targets (very few more targets tbh.  You can't kill other exiles and get anything out of it, so you still have two factions to kill, just as being in Freeport or Qeynos would warrant you), but less rewards.  If there was no advantage to exililng, and if it wasn't significant, people would stop doing it.  </span></blockquote>Uh.... wrong.I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.I'm exile.  I have been since level 12ish.  (I tried at 10, but as a guard I had a hard time completing the exile quest from Freeport with island gear on.. and zero cash).Anyway, my little guild was created with two purposes in mind:  Have fun and pvp.  We TRULY exiled for PvP.  More and greater PvP.  That was the sole motivation and that's the only "advantage" we have.We don't raid, and we're not interested in joining a raiding guild at any level... so exactly what advantages do I have as an exile?For people who want the most pvp possible, exile is the place to be.  I don't care that I can't finish some quests, or get PvP gear, I accept those disadvantages.  Suggesting that they take away the fence, and the guild registrar, and the banker is ridiculous just because you don't like exile.  How [I cannot control my vocabulary] egocentric can one person be? (That last line wasn't directed at the person quoted, just venting at that point). - H</blockquote>I didn't suggest any of that, I actually suggest making Exile a viable 3rd faction and equalizing the game by giving the factioned guilds all classes as well.  Give the Exiles pvp gear.  Give them guild houses.  Give the cities all classes.Everything is equal, and when/if exiles continue to dominate, there will be no legitimate crying/complaining from the cities.  </blockquote>No, I know.Again, that last line wasn't supposed to be directed at you.  When I reread it, I realized it read wrong.My response to you was intended to oppose the idea that no one in exiled for more PvP... when that's the only reason my guild is exiled.Anyway, I like your idea, because it means more people would move back to the cities (probably) and that would mean more targets for those in exile... which is the reason we're here.  : )

[Harbringer Doom]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EDIT: HORK!!! You guys (and a VERY few level 70s) are the exception to the rule. Most people (the VAST majority) exile to raid.</p></blockquote>That's all well and good, and most likely true.  I just hate being painted with a broad stroke, when I know its not true.HORK!