Way to fix lowbie pvp.... [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

DravynX

10-22-2007, 11:03 AM

<cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker.New players don't go from 1-20 in a day. New players don't have access to twink gear, or even MC. Most new players come in to the game not knowing a whole lot, like not knowing where to rush to and farm rares for two weeks so they can have craptastic MC gear, etc.All you people that do nothing but twink at the low tier and gank need to go back to pve servers. Because you sure as hell aren't here to pvp.

Bloodfa

10-22-2007, 11:13 AM

Best suggestion I can make is to take up one of the people who's volunteered to take a newbie under their wing. Check the list at the thread linked below and take somebody up on their offer. Both sides on all the PvP servers. If you're willing to put in the effort of learning the game, one of us will help you. It's probably the best solution out there, with players taking on some of the responsibilities of 'mentor'. We're willing to invest the time in the hopes that you'll stick it out. We just need you to take the first step and be willing to invest some time as well. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=377742" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=377742</a> There's a lot of talk about level-locking being changed to level 30. If that happens, T2 PvP will gradually go the way of the dinosaur and evolution will push things up higher, for the most part. If it happens ... we'll see. But take my suggestion above to heart.

Mighty Melvor

10-22-2007, 11:20 AM

Since we will be getting 140 AA and lvl 80 with the new expansion, SOE will have to revisit the AA cap for PvP.My guess is you will be able to earn AA faster (2 per level) but the cap will start out lower in T2. The cap at level 14 is currently 21 (1.5xlvl). I'm guessing that will be lowered significantly. If cap were put in place to 2 per level from 10 to 80, you'd cap out AA at lv 79. However, a lvl 14 could only have 10 AA.Would improve the situation without totally nerfing other aspects of the game.

Dannd

10-22-2007, 11:24 AM

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker</blockquote>Twinkie ganker? I think not. Before posting your thoughts - I encourage you to look at my eq2players profile - my alts, and tell me which of those many alts have an outrageously huge pvp kill count.While you're at it - do tell me which of these is decked out in anything higher than MC'd gear? I harvest all my stuff and try to make it myself or have a guildie make it for me.Please, do your homework before your blurt assumptions.

DravynX

10-22-2007, 11:29 AM

<cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker</blockquote>Twinkie ganker? I think not. Before posting your thoughts - I encourage you to look at my eq2players profile - my alts, and tell me which of those many alts have an outrageously huge pvp kill count.While you're at it - do tell me which of these is decked out in anything higher than MC'd gear? I harvest all my stuff and try to make it myself or have a guildie make it for me.Please, do your homework before your blurt assumptions.</blockquote>Take your own advice. New players are being driven away, because they can't compete. The people that can do what you suggest are those that already have higher level toons, or experience with the game. You defend the very thing that's stagnating the player population on the only pvp server left that has one.I long for the days when the pvp servers first opened, and there were no twinks. Pvp was fun then, and everybody was on equal footing.

Mighty Melvor

10-22-2007, 11:44 AM

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker</blockquote>Twinkie ganker? I think not. Before posting your thoughts - I encourage you to look at my eq2players profile - my alts, and tell me which of those many alts have an outrageously huge pvp kill count.While you're at it - do tell me which of these is decked out in anything higher than MC'd gear? I harvest all my stuff and try to make it myself or have a guildie make it for me.Please, do your homework before your blurt assumptions.</blockquote>Take your own advice. New players are being driven away, because they can't compete. The people that can do what you suggest are those that already have higher level toons, or experience with the game. You defend the very thing that's stagnating the player population on the only pvp server left that has one.I long for the days when the pvp servers first opened, and there were no twinks. Pvp was fun then, and everybody was on equal footing. </blockquote>Then adopt a newbie and shut up. Seriously, our guild has had at least 10 new players join from EQ1, PvE and WoW. They all compete!

Beast

10-22-2007, 11:52 AM

Im with u.I started game and went to PvP server.i was in the GY at lvl 11 and had a lvl 14 mounted player hit me for over 200 with a spell.So u socalled pvpers think that is pvp?When u can kill another player with 1 spell that is in no way pvp.I think it says alot about the lvl 14 twinks that cut their exp off and hunt noobs.Must be the kids that got their lunch money taken daily.Its sad that u have players that do just that,but whats worse is u have a game that supports it.On pvp server skill means nothing.Its all about who has the most money and access to the best gear.So u low lvl twinks need to stand up to urinate instead of sitting down.[Removed for Content]

DravynX

10-22-2007, 12:04 PM

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker</blockquote>Twinkie ganker? I think not. Before posting your thoughts - I encourage you to look at my eq2players profile - my alts, and tell me which of those many alts have an outrageously huge pvp kill count.While you're at it - do tell me which of these is decked out in anything higher than MC'd gear? I harvest all my stuff and try to make it myself or have a guildie make it for me.Please, do your homework before your blurt assumptions.</blockquote>Take your own advice. New players are being driven away, because they can't compete. The people that can do what you suggest are those that already have higher level toons, or experience with the game. You defend the very thing that's stagnating the player population on the only pvp server left that has one.I long for the days when the pvp servers first opened, and there were no twinks. Pvp was fun then, and everybody was on equal footing. </blockquote>Then adopt a newbie and shut up. Seriously, our guild has had at least 10 new players join from EQ1, PvE and WoW. They all compete!</blockquote>I have and I do, but I'd rather SoE fixed it than having noobs require babysitting in order to make it through the lowest levels of the game. I hope they do remove level locking or move it up to 30, just so I can hear all of you whine when you suddenly have to do some actual pvp with people that won't fall over from one or two skills. Cowards.Oh and yea, I find it odd that only level lockers keep spamming about how many true new players have joined their guilds. Where are they all? I got my gf to finally play..in one afternoon while I was at work she got ganked by full on groups of oranges when she was lvl 10 so many times that she quit the game in disgust. This is just the state of the game for new players.

Spyderbite

10-22-2007, 12:17 PM

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I got my gf to finally play..in one afternoon while I was at work she got ganked by full on groups of oranges when she was lvl 10 so many times that she quit the game in disgust. This is just the state of the game for new players.</blockquote>My gf just started playing last month and the same thing happened to her. She laughed so hard she nearly peed herself. Then she put a group of lvl 10-12's together, stormed back in to the graveyard and mowed down the twinks.Some have the right attitude.. others don't. /shrugs

Bloodfa

10-22-2007, 12:32 PM

<cite>Beast wrote:</cite><blockquote> Im with u.I started game and went to PvP server.i was in the GY at lvl 11 and had a lvl 14 mounted player hit me for over 200 with a spell.So u socalled pvpers think that is pvp?When u can kill another player with 1 spell that is in no way pvp.I think it says alot about the lvl 14 twinks that cut their exp off and hunt noobs.Must be the kids that got their lunch money taken daily.Its sad that u have players that do just that,but whats worse is u have a game that supports it.On pvp server skill means nothing.Its all about who has the most money and access to the best gear.So u low lvl twinks need to stand up to urinate instead of sitting down.[Removed for Content]</blockquote>See the posts above? Take the advice. Yes, anyone who locks at 14 has absolutely no excuse for doing so, except to gank 10's. Until the locking issue is addressed, there's not really a lot we can do about it except what we've already done. The people responding here are trying to offer assistance. If it doesn't suit your needs, a simple "thanks but no thanks" would suffice. Comments like "So u socalled pvpers think that is pvp?" to the people offering to take time out of our days and nights to help new players like yourself get around a flawed stage in the game are insults directed at the wrong people, so take your comments, review them, and use them as an example of how not to respond to offers of help, ok? When a level 50 weaponsmith makes a level 12 weapon, we get nothing, not even experience. Same with all of my other crafters. We don't charge for fuel. We usually throw in extra items, again for free. I've given away more imbued silver jewelry and blackened iron gear than I've sold, and I've sold a lot. If somebody offers to buy you a beer, don't toss it back in their face. It's rude.

KannaWhoopass

10-22-2007, 02:04 PM

IMO the adopt a newb program stickied is an example of a problem , not a solution Who stickies that stuff ?That and welcome to the jungle are the Epitaphs of PvP Servers. The help a noob program would do what ?Tell them to lock ?Hide in Zarvons tower for 2 days harvesting rares to make Mastercrafted gear and make 95% of the quest rewards of that tier useless.Are the mentors juts going to group with the new player and blow up all of the content for them ?Weeeee sounds like so much FUN! Thank you for mentoring me , removing the concept of exploration , telling me how to play , and trivializing the content for me. PvP was an additoin to the game. PvP is NOT the game!PvP is not near balanced or refined enough to stand on its own as a game. It is a add on . And as an add on if it detracts from the game , then it is a failed add on . So if a bunch of people decide i want to level lock at the entrance point of the game. And build a character that makes all of the content in te tier trivial. And then kill new players who are playing Everquest .. with the added flavor of PvP. Then what you have is a environment where new players are robbed of the FUN of Everquest by twinks ganking them again and again. The Decline of Players on PvP servers is all you need to see. I would bet there are more players on the PvP servers now who started 15 - 12 months ago, who got to enjoy the game when there were no level locked twinks . Than there are new players. Who have joined in the past 7 months.

Mighty Melvor

10-22-2007, 03:29 PM

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO the adopt a newb program stickied is an example of a problem , not a solution Who stickies that stuff ?That and welcome to the jungle are the Epitaphs of PvP Servers. The help a noob program would do what ?Tell them to lock ?Hide in Zarvons tower for 2 days harvesting rares to make Mastercrafted gear and make 95% of the quest rewards of that tier useless.Are the mentors juts going to group with the new player and blow up all of the content for them ?Weeeee sounds like so much FUN! Thank you for mentoring me , removing the concept of exploration , telling me how to play , and trivializing the content for me. PvP was an additoin to the game. PvP is NOT the game!PvP is not near balanced or refined enough to stand on its own as a game. It is a add on . And as an add on if it detracts from the game , then it is a failed add on . So if a bunch of people decide i want to level lock at the entrance point of the game. And build a character that makes all of the content in te tier trivial. And then kill new players who are playing Everquest .. with the added flavor of PvP. Then what you have is a environment where new players are robbed of the FUN of Everquest by twinks ganking them again and again. The Decline of Players on PvP servers is all you need to see. I would bet there are more players on the PvP servers now who started 15 - 12 months ago, who got to enjoy the game when there were no level locked twinks . Than there are new players. Who have joined in the past 7 months.</blockquote>And proper punctuation is your friend <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Bloodfa

10-22-2007, 03:57 PM

I don't agree with all of the guides stickied, but there are some useful ones. As far as helping them out at the early stages, to show them how to play, what to do, I think that's a tad more productive than just sitting there bemoaning the current situation. Those of us that are trying to work around it are at least doing something to try to keep people playing. What would your suggestion be? Let them learn the hard way about T2 PvP being a royal pain in the [Removed for Content]? I'm sure that'll help the current situation. If the rumored level lock change goes through, great, that would make my life easier. Do you have any idea how many times I've died because I got ganked typing to somebody I've never met before? If you're going to complain about a problem, then do something to help alleviate that problem. Otherwise, it's nothing more than wasted breath. I'm sorry if my reply comes off a bit rude, that's not my intent, but I am at a loss as to why there's suddenly some negative feedback on what's essentially a charity effort across factions and servers to try to help newcomers surmount the odds stacked against them. We don't hold their hands, skipping merrily through enemy zones and singing "tra-la-la", gleefully smashing anything that threatens them. We tell them the best ways that we know to get either the materials for the gear they need or the coin for them. We're providing our tradeskilling services to them for free, as not everybody wants to learn 3 or 4 tradeskills. Since we're not Devs, what more would you suggest that we do? I'd love to see the majority of PvP moved out of Antonica and into the Thundering Steppes and Zek. Not my call. I'm not one to stand idly by and watch people get smacked around and leave the game, so I'm doing what I can, and so are the others. If you'd like to do something constructive to help them out, please, do. You'll have nothing but support from most of the others genuinely interested in trying to keep players.

Norrsken

10-22-2007, 04:07 PM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't agree with all of the guides stickied, but there are some useful ones. As far as helping them out at the early stages, to show them how to play, what to do, I think that's a tad more productive than just sitting there bemoaning the current situation. Those of us that are trying to work around it are at least doing something to try to keep people playing. What would your suggestion be? Let them learn the hard way about T2 PvP being a royal pain in the [I cannot control my vocabulary]? I'm sure that'll help the current situation. If the rumored level lock change goes through, great, that would make my life easier. Do you have any idea how many times I've died because I got ganked typing to somebody I've never met before? If you're going to complain about a problem, then do something to help alleviate that problem. Otherwise, it's nothing more than wasted breath. I'm sorry if my reply comes off a bit rude, that's not my intent, but I am at a loss as to why there's suddenly some negative feedback on what's essentially a charity effort across factions and servers to try to help newcomers surmount the odds stacked against them. We don't hold their hands, skipping merrily through enemy zones and singing "tra-la-la", gleefully smashing anything that threatens them. We tell them the best ways that we know to get either the materials for the gear they need or the coin for them. We're providing our tradeskilling services to them for free, as not everybody wants to learn 3 or 4 tradeskills. Since we're not Devs, what more would you suggest that we do? I'd love to see the majority of PvP moved out of Antonica and into the Thundering Steppes and Zek. Not my call. I'm not one to stand idly by and watch people get smacked around and leave the game, so I'm doing what I can, and so are the others. If you'd like to do something constructive to help them out, please, do. You'll have nothing but support from most of the others genuinely interested in trying to keep players.</blockquote>Aye, I agree here.I even rolled a toon specifically to kill and run gank crews out of places such as WC. dotn see many others doing that. I even patrolled the zone to evict some troublesome hangarounds. And if more people actually did that, than just roll their own gank crew and hang in the other factions lowbie zones, I think we would see a lot less players leave in dismay. Hell, one or two newbs actually tried giving me a fwe gold to pay me for my efforts. didnt take it tho. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

newplayertoeq2

10-22-2007, 04:22 PM

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO the adopt a newb program stickied is an example of a problem , not a solution Who stickies that stuff ?That and welcome to the jungle are the Epitaphs of PvP Servers. The help a noob program would do what ?Tell them to lock ?Hide in Zarvons tower for 2 days harvesting rares to make Mastercrafted gear and make 95% of the quest rewards of that tier useless.Are the mentors juts going to group with the new player and blow up all of the content for them ?Weeeee sounds like so much FUN! Thank you for mentoring me , removing the concept of exploration , telling me how to play , and trivializing the content for me. PvP was an additoin to the game. PvP is NOT the game!PvP is not near balanced or refined enough to stand on its own as a game. It is a add on . And as an add on if it detracts from the game , then it is a failed add on . So if a bunch of people decide i want to level lock at the entrance point of the game. And build a character that makes all of the content in te tier trivial. And then kill new players who are playing Everquest .. with the added flavor of PvP. Then what you have is a environment where new players are robbed of the FUN of Everquest by twinks ganking them again and again. The Decline of Players on PvP servers is all you need to see. I would bet there are more players on the PvP servers now who started 15 - 12 months ago, who got to enjoy the game when there were no level locked twinks . Than there are new players. Who have joined in the past 7 months.</blockquote>this is true.....the eq2 pvp system blows hard no other game is this [Removed for Content] for pvp the pvp in this favors players who have level 70s who can get like 1 plat a kill probly which buys the 10g books that level 10s who use them cant even afford.to sum it up the eq2 pvp system is [Removed for Content] and i hear wow is just better at every aspect espescially pvp i had enough of this [Removed for Content] game and the [Removed for Content] that made it so level 14 twinks kill new players in 1 hit and take half their money

Hinosh

10-22-2007, 04:25 PM

I agree alot of new people are being driven away from the game from being ganked over and over again. But the people who aren't? They go and create an "overpowered" class that killed them because "Hey, that one ranger just one-hit my guardian! Three times! Wow, I better go play a ranger, those must be good!" is probably the thought that went through their heads. Those players adapt to the game rather than demand that the game adapt to them. The people who leave want the game to be exactly the way they want it to be, even if the other players disagree. We'll be missing nothing from them.

Bozidar

10-22-2007, 04:33 PM

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO the adopt a newb program stickied is an example of a problem , not a solution </blockquote>I'm sorry you feel that way, but i think you're greatly misguided for the purpose of the program.It's not there to show people how to lock/twink. It's there to find out what the person wants from the game, and give them the best possible advice in attaining that goal.Perhaps if you'd actually read the thread you'd understand this?

newplayertoeq2

10-22-2007, 04:51 PM

thats not true you can level to 40 in wow and you wont find any twinks cause the twinks play battleground all day and their items dont make much of a difference compared to what twinking in eq2 does

Norrsken

10-22-2007, 04:53 PM

newplayertoeq2

10-22-2007, 04:55 PM

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>newplayertoeq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats not true you can level to 40 in wow and you wont find any twinks cause the twinks play battleground all day and their items dont make much of a difference compared to what twinking in eq2 does</blockquote>Well, considering I play for pvp, it doesnt matter where the hell the twinks are.</blockquote>do you have a level 70?

Norrsken

10-22-2007, 05:04 PM

<cite>newplayertoeq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>newplayertoeq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats not true you can level to 40 in wow and you wont find any twinks cause the twinks play battleground all day and their items dont make much of a difference compared to what twinking in eq2 does</blockquote>Well, considering I play for pvp, it doesnt matter where the hell the twinks are.</blockquote>do you have a level 70?</blockquote>Not yet. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Tae

10-22-2007, 07:12 PM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>My gf just started playing last month and the same thing happened to her. She laughed so hard she nearly peed herself. Then she put a group of lvl 10-12's together, stormed back in to the graveyard and mowed down the twinks.Some have the right attitude.. others don't. /shrugs</blockquote>They must have been absolutely terrible twinks if a bunch of level 10-12s in island gear could kill them then. Unless you'd twinked her out. And I don't know where she would have found a group at level 10 either, most people level out of that in less than an hour and the only people who have time to set aside to come PvP there are people who're locked there. I recently levelled a character from 1-18 in Greater Faydark, and I met nobody. Within 10 minutes of taking him to antonica, I was killed twice. Both times were oneshots. Then, when I got to level 20, huge groups of fully twinked out characters who've been at that tier for upwards of thirty days came and killed me. My level 70 berserker, who's pretty well equipped considering he's my alt, has only got <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=794692122" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">23 days</a> played. How is a level 20 character ever ever supposed to compete with a level 22 who's been there for <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=672090122" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">30 days</a>? It's not really in their interest to spend time equipping up, you're not there long enough. But it's also very very frustrating to keep getting killed and have no chance to fight back. When I was levelling up on Darathar, there were two or three twinks who killed me a good ten times. I didn't understand why I stood no chance against them. Perhaps, I thought, I just wasn't very good at this game. People killing me in two shots that are a lower level than me, that must be the answer. This, I'm sure, is how most proper new players will start. They'll die over and over and they can't compete. The first step will to be ask in 10-19 why this keeps happening, what are they doing wrong? But of course all the twinks are in that channel, so they'll be met with a chorus of "because you suck" "get lost carebear" and all the usual rubbish. I've tried to stay in 10-19 chat to tell people it gets better, but the constant stream of idiocy I see there makes me not want to hang around and I always end up closing it a few hours later. When the game's main PvP is level 22s roaming areas that are mostly populated with people that are going to be JUST on the cusp of attackable for them and won't even be close to their gear level, people who are actual new players and won't understand why they keep dying so easily, they're going to get discouraged and just quit altogether. Especially if they bought the game cold without anyone around that's recommended it. I don't believe (like Skree does) that Free For All PvP is the way to solve this. I've been a level 20 exile and I know that you get killed constantly by level 70s. Sure they might not actually seek you out to kill you (MIGHT) but they'll still do it. I know I would and I know I do. It's just going to make it even worse, because quests like SoD do encourage higher levels into areas packed with lowbies. Nor do I think moving it up to 30 will make much difference. Personally I'd just remove locking altogether. So many things have been done to try and curb the twinks - removing XP debt and AA caps are two examples. It would be so much easier to just take locking out. If people want to "do the content" then they can just make an alt. We're here to PvP, and right now twinking and locking is utterly destroying PvP and making people not want to play the game any longer. There are those who say they'll quit if locking is removed, but I can't imagine that they're anywhere near the majority of the population, and since they're preying on newbies and making them quit it'd surely be more financially sensible to get rid of them anyway. Why is the fun of a few perma-locked level 17-25s more important than all the level 70s and legit lower level players? I don't think it is.

Spyderbite

10-23-2007, 12:10 AM

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote>The help a noob program would do what ?</blockquote>It does a lot. I'm a volunteer in it and I can tell you first hand that there are no hand outs nor is any noob misguided.Help a Noob offers player who are new to PvP or new to EQ2 PvP a social network and a "big brother/sister" so to speak. Its not a crutch and I make that very clear to the noobs that I take in under my wing. Nobody is teaching anyone "how to PvP".On the contrary, we address their issues when they start out and offer advice. Better places to harvest, train, quest. We network noobs together with other noobs who need a group for various activities. We also suggest guilds on our servers that we believe would be a good fit for them and even introduce them to the guild leaders on occasion.We take them out to server events such as tournaments and such so they can meet players from all over the server.. Freep, Exile and Q alike.But, most importantly.. we're their friend. And, we teach them that friendships are far more important than any uber equipment that will ever drop as loot or cost them 100 plat on a broker.Now.. based on all of this. You tell me why such a program is a bad idea?

Spyderbite

10-23-2007, 12:15 AM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Unless you'd twinked her out. And I don't know where she would have found a group at level 10 either</blockquote>She wasn't wearing more than some handcrafted armor and adept III spells that a friend made for her.As to where she found a group.. see my post above. In addition to some of the Help A Noob peeps that were on at the time, there were several new guild members that had just joined EQ2. Good timing of availability, and as you noted.. quite possibly the twinks were horrible.. equated to their demise.Is this situation going to happen everytime? Not likely. Probably a rare occasion. But, I guarantee that she had more fun than the gal that quit in disgust and made a bunch of new friends to boot.Glass half full my friend.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Tarlok

10-23-2007, 12:51 AM

I do what I can to help the few new players I see via crafting and advice so I see nothing wrong with the "help a noob" concept. There is a big if however to the system. Is it just fostering more lowbie lockers? If it is then its doing way more harm than good in my opinion. I am always glad to see a new player actually stick around for longer than a week. I have seen it time and again the level 10 that was being ganked to almost quiting doing the exact same thing when they are level 14 to other level 10s, and they rarely leave t2.The system is broken, plain and simple. Its like some kind of disease that just spreads with a few being imune to it and leveling past t2/3. This disease will kill pvp, it may take a while but it will.Lets help new players out, by all means, but at least be part of the solution. Encourage them to see more of the game than just ant/cl and such. Yea to us a lot of the content is old hat, but to a new player...telling them to lock and stay level 14 forever is doing them and this game a huge disservice.

ladyvengeance

10-23-2007, 01:36 AM

Alright, I'll agree with some of this. I don't think they should remove locking, and I don't think they should change it to level 30. If either happens, I will definitely quit, and despite what some of you believe, many people will do the same. However, those of you who are locked at 14 should be ashamed of yourselves. I was in DLW last night with my lvl 11 scout doing quests and got ganked 5 times --- all by locked 14s. There is absolutely no reason to lock at 14 other than to gank noobs. Shame on you. Locking at 17 for awhile I can see --- you want to kill all these [Removed for Content] 14s and keep away from the 22s in steel gear. Plus, the faction requirements for pvp gear are so insanely high that it requires you to lock if you want that faction.But those 14s. Wow. I did not realize it was this bad. They kept ganking me over and over and over even after they had taken fame and faction. Disgusting.

valkyriepc

10-23-2007, 03:11 AM

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the early days of PVP, these zones were lvl 8 pvp zones. Meaning - someone lvl 18 could attack you. Sony then lowered it to a lvl 4 pvp zone. Now, only lvls 10-14 can attack you at will.How long does it take to get from lvl 1-20? Less than one day.You have to out level these lower tier'd zones with one character - get rich, and twink out a lvl 14. You're crying and frustration will end then.But, just like the lvl 70 who has twinked out their PVP project - you too will have to put some work into this game as well.Consider it a "rights of passage" type thing.There's always a PVE server.</blockquote>Says the twinkie ganker</blockquote>Twinkie ganker? I think not. Before posting your thoughts - I encourage you to look at my eq2players profile - my alts, and tell me which of those many alts have an outrageously huge pvp kill count.While you're at it - do tell me which of these is decked out in anything higher than MC'd gear? I harvest all my stuff and try to make it myself or have a guildie make it for me.Please, do your homework before your blurt assumptions.</blockquote>Take your own advice. New players are being driven away, because they can't compete. The people that can do what you suggest are those that already have higher level toons, or experience with the game. You defend the very thing that's stagnating the player population on the only pvp server left that has one.I long for the days when the pvp servers first opened, and there were no twinks. Pvp was fun then, and everybody was on equal footing. </blockquote><div>Hrmm, i have a lvl 17 dirge. My highest lvl character. Without ever buying gold and farming the rares myself and selling ones i don't need, im in full MC crafted by myself or an alt with all ad3. Have about a 5:1 kvd and a title. All within about 3 weeks of playing. Any new player reading this, just hit U when you get into the game. Find a guild taking in new players and learn everything you possibly can from them. And actually LISTEN. If you wish to be competitive in EQ2 pvp in the lower tiers then you have to play the same game. If you don't care for t2, take the A reaming for a bit and lvl past it. With the guidance of a good friendly guild you can get to lvl 30 in a few days have an OK ammount of AA and start seeing the game as you want to see it. But if your gonna gripe that you can't compete at lower lvl's without putting in the effort, then please [Removed for Content].</div>

valkyriepc

10-23-2007, 03:30 AM

<cite>newplayertoeq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats not true you can level to 40 in wow and you wont find any twinks cause the twinks play battleground all day and their items dont make much of a difference compared to what twinking in eq2 does</blockquote>LOL? last time i checked my 29 twink rogue can 2 shot any non twink, and hell even some twinks. And i roll around outside of BG's in STV and other area's destroying people. Ganking even worse than i've ever been ganked in EQ2. But from your post, it seems you want pvp only when YOU want it. Instead of when its at your front door kicking your teeth in. And the people staying here playing EQ2 still are people that want REAL PVP, whether it be t2 gank squards or t7 x2 / x3's or cloud hopping. Its here, we make the best of it. But the fights we get are ones that last in my memories instead of all those countless hours farming honor in WoW rolling pugs with my team in less than 5 minutes 5 capping or capping all flags in a fraction of a minute. Seems so fun. You'll just get to lvl 70 in WoW and realize that gear makes more of a difference at higher lvl's than it does in EQ2 t7, and you'll not only get 2 shot at high lvl pvp but you'll just not enjoy it unless you've spent 20 days /played raiding or 7 hours a day doing arena pvp waiting for arena points to update every tuesday. Its so watered down its pathetic. Its horrible pvp and people like you that try to support it need to [Removed for Content] of our servers and go back to that bluebie [Removed for Content] game.

Tae

10-23-2007, 05:09 AM

<cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote> I have seen it time and again the level 10 that was being ganked to almost quiting doing the exact same thing when they are level 14 to other level 10s, and they rarely leave t2.</blockquote>I think the newbie guides contribute to this somewhat. There's no need for anyone to lock anymore. You can easily get to 100 achievement points just by playing the game. But people spend so much time harvesting to prepare for T2 that now they'd rather stick around there. A good chunk of the actual "new players" in my guild seem to be sticking around in the tier, to get revenge and the like.

Grimfort

10-23-2007, 05:49 AM

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>Hrmm, i have a lvl 17 dirge. My highest lvl character. Without ever buying gold and farming the rares myself and selling ones i don't need, im in full MC crafted by myself or an alt with all ad3. Have about a 5:1 kvd and a title. All within about 3 weeks of playing. Any new player reading this, just hit U when you get into the game. Find a guild taking in new players and learn everything you possibly can from them. And actually LISTEN. If you wish to be competitive in EQ2 pvp in the lower tiers then you have to play the same game. If you don't care for t2, take the A reaming for a bit and lvl past it. With the guidance of a good friendly guild you can get to lvl 30 in a few days have an OK ammount of AA and start seeing the game as you want to see it. But if your gonna gripe that you can't compete at lower lvl's without putting in the effort, then please [Removed for Content].</div></blockquote>If all new players to this game knew that it is possible to "survive" by gleaming knowledge from guilds/forums etc, then I'm sure they would stay. However, most would start the free trial, and give up after a couple of days imo, not because they don't want to spend the time learning all these things, but because they are trying the game. How many of you would invest hours/days of research into a game where you dont even know if you will stay? I don't know about you, but I start a trial by playing and finding out what its like before I commit any real time to it. How many of you have used a trial and then thought... its good, but you die to quick, people arent very friendly, [Removed for Content] this isn't fun. That seems to be the message I have read by a number of people who could actually be bothered to come into the forums to say that after trailing the game, who can say how many others dont bother (or how many stayed!). Needless to say, if existing players know of people trying and quitting because of the gankage, theres obviously something wrong. I still think that killing in pvp should give you xp, even if you turn xp off. Those that want pvp will be forced into higher levels matching the skill that they obviously have, those that want to experience the game can do so as well.

DravynX

10-23-2007, 11:10 AM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Unless you'd twinked her out. And I don't know where she would have found a group at level 10 either</blockquote>She wasn't wearing more than some handcrafted armor and adept III spells that a friend made for her.As to where she found a group.. see my post above. In addition to some of the Help A Noob peeps that were on at the time, there were several new guild members that had just joined EQ2. Good timing of availability, and as you noted.. quite possibly the twinks were horrible.. equated to their demise.Is this situation going to happen everytime? Not likely. Probably a rare occasion. But, I guarantee that she had more fun than the gal that quit in disgust and made a bunch of new friends to boot.Glass half full my friend.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>And the "gal that quit in disgust" was a brand new player with no guild and no friends to help. Started the game and made it to 10 on her own in one afternoon, and quit after repeated ganking by orange gank squads. I see that your gf that "laughed till she peed herself" wasn't your average brand new player. Thanks for laying out all the facts Al Gore.Take off the rose colored glasses for a second. This is where the game that you play is going. Down the [Removed for Content] toilet, because of no talent gankers that prey on helpless new players and this is what they call "REAL PVP" according to that noob Valkyrie. This is not pvp. This is a one sided gankfest. Level locking needs to go. Level restrictions need to be put on certain gear, and horses and carpets, etc. This one sided superiority binge is far more carebear, because there's zero risk. None, whatsoever. x2 raids of lvl 14-16's at WFP gates killing brand new lvl 10 and 11 players is [Removed for Content]. Double [Removed for Content] when some lvl 30 comes and pulls the guards away just so the twink raid can zerg the nooblets. You, my friends, are the carebears. All of you clowns need to learn what "Real pvp" is. One sided twink t2 ganking isn't it.

Mutant

10-23-2007, 11:55 AM

<blockquote>make there be an option to turn off pvp in the sunken city...the graveyard....and the ruins...and the sprawl and the theives way since these are all newb areas and everyone in them is getting ready for the commonlands and the only point for low level pvp is for greifing unless your a twink hunting twinks but theres none of them cause i always get hit by like 150 dmg attacks from level 10s</blockquote>While your concern has good intentions, it will have a minimal effect. You can still get ganked in commonlands, no? Actually those noobzones are even better layed out for safety then CL, since a zone entrance is only a few seconds sprint away from you no matter where you are in the zones.Watch your back and run if you are not ready for pvp. And if you are ready and geared out its very possible to kill lvl 20's with a lvl 12 healer.Lowbies have it much much easier than i did back in the day: noob zones 8 level range pvp, overpowered classes less balanced then now, zoning while in combat, evacing while in combat, healers healing OOC, zone link dead and dissapear, autorun linkdead and not be attackable, the list goes on......If lowbies neverget attacked and never learn the ropes the hard way, then we will have what, a server full of carebears that wait for honorable duels ?Make them not attackable until level 30? ok level 34 twinks will own them. Not attackable until 60, ok fully fabled, 100aa, mastered out lvl 70 twinks will own them.A death in this game is trivial, its just pixels, and if someone can't handle it they shouldn't play here, because it happens to everyone. Even the twinks get pwned by full groups.

Norrsken

10-23-2007, 01:04 PM

<cite>Zombie@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>make there be an option to turn off pvp in the sunken city...the graveyard....and the ruins...and the sprawl and the theives way since these are all newb areas and everyone in them is getting ready for the commonlands and the only point for low level pvp is for greifing unless your a twink hunting twinks but theres none of them cause i always get hit by like 150 dmg attacks from level 10s</blockquote>While your concern has good intentions, it will have a minimal effect. You can still get ganked in commonlands, no? Actually those noobzones are even better layed out for safety then CL, since a zone entrance is only a few seconds sprint away from you no matter where you are in the zones.Watch your back and run if you are not ready for pvp. And if you are ready and geared out its very possible to kill lvl 20's with a lvl 12 healer.Lowbies have it much much easier than i did back in the day: noob zones 8 level range pvp, overpowered classes less balanced then now, zoning while in combat, evacing while in combat, healers healing OOC, zone link dead and dissapear, autorun linkdead and not be attackable, the list goes on......If lowbies neverget attacked and never learn the ropes the hard way, then we will have what, a server full of carebears that wait for honorable duels ?Make them not attackable until level 30? ok level 34 twinks will own them. Not attackable until 60, ok fully fabled, 100aa, mastered out lvl 70 twinks will own them.A death in this game is trivial, its just pixels, and if someone can't handle it they shouldn't play here, because it happens to everyone. Even the twinks get pwned by full groups.</blockquote>Theys hould learn the hard way, and they should learn the ropes.going up against veterans of more than 1 year in horribly unbalancing gear isnt learning. Neither is it learning the ropes, sinc ethe rest of the tiers barely work like that.

Hinosh

10-23-2007, 07:10 PM

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Unless you'd twinked her out. And I don't know where she would have found a group at level 10 either</blockquote>She wasn't wearing more than some handcrafted armor and adept III spells that a friend made for her.As to where she found a group.. see my post above. In addition to some of the Help A Noob peeps that were on at the time, there were several new guild members that had just joined EQ2. Good timing of availability, and as you noted.. quite possibly the twinks were horrible.. equated to their demise.Is this situation going to happen everytime? Not likely. Probably a rare occasion. But, I guarantee that she had more fun than the gal that quit in disgust and made a bunch of new friends to boot.Glass half full my friend.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>And the "gal that quit in disgust" was a brand new player with no guild and no friends to help. Started the game and made it to 10 on her own in one afternoon, and quit after repeated ganking by orange gank squads. I see that your gf that "laughed till she peed herself" wasn't your average brand new player. Thanks for laying out all the facts Al Gore.Take off the rose colored glasses for a second. This is where the game that you play is going. Down the [Removed for Content] toilet, because of no talent gankers that prey on helpless new players and this is what they call "REAL PVP" according to that noob Valkyrie. This is not pvp. This is a one sided gankfest. Level locking needs to go. Level restrictions need to be put on certain gear, and horses and carpets, etc. This one sided superiority binge is far more carebear, because there's zero risk. None, whatsoever. x2 raids of lvl 14-16's at WFP gates killing brand new lvl 10 and 11 players is [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Double [I cannot control my vocabulary] when some lvl 30 comes and pulls the guards away just so the twink raid can zerg the nooblets. You, my friends, are the carebears. All of you clowns need to learn what "Real pvp" is. One sided twink t2 ganking isn't it.</blockquote>Don't you think there's a risk for the new players? You say there's no risk for the level lockers, but do they deserve a risk? They worked to get the gear/AA/Adept IIIs they have, even if they did it with a level 70 character. Do you want that work to be a waste just because new players just want the game to give everything they need to them at the start.All level 70s had to start at level 1 just like everyone else. Did they quit the game at level 10 because of level locking ganksquads? No. Did they give up because someone killed them while they were trying to harvest? No. Did they pick themselves back up after dying and kept going until they reached level 70? Yes.The people who leave the game are probably people who don't want to work to gain the rewards they do want. The people who stay suffered through the game long enough to be able to enjoy the rewards of having all that money from whatever it is level 70s do to get that much money. It is their money, they earned it, you can't tell them how to spend it. If they want to twink out low level characters, they should be able to. If they want to spend it all on a nice in-game house with over nine thousand furniture items so their characters can enjoy their life while everyone else sleeps in the street because they don't want to pay 5 silver a week for a place to live, whatever, it's their money. If they want to hire an army of players to go out and PvP for them, they should probably go PvP themselves instead of paying others to do it for them, but at least I don't have to pay for it.

DravynX

10-23-2007, 07:31 PM

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Unless you'd twinked her out. And I don't know where she would have found a group at level 10 either</blockquote>She wasn't wearing more than some handcrafted armor and adept III spells that a friend made for her.As to where she found a group.. see my post above. In addition to some of the Help A Noob peeps that were on at the time, there were several new guild members that had just joined EQ2. Good timing of availability, and as you noted.. quite possibly the twinks were horrible.. equated to their demise.Is this situation going to happen everytime? Not likely. Probably a rare occasion. But, I guarantee that she had more fun than the gal that quit in disgust and made a bunch of new friends to boot.Glass half full my friend.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>And the "gal that quit in disgust" was a brand new player with no guild and no friends to help. Started the game and made it to 10 on her own in one afternoon, and quit after repeated ganking by orange gank squads. I see that your gf that "laughed till she peed herself" wasn't your average brand new player. Thanks for laying out all the facts Al Gore.Take off the rose colored glasses for a second. This is where the game that you play is going. Down the [Removed for Content] toilet, because of no talent gankers that prey on helpless new players and this is what they call "REAL PVP" according to that noob Valkyrie. This is not pvp. This is a one sided gankfest. Level locking needs to go. Level restrictions need to be put on certain gear, and horses and carpets, etc. This one sided superiority binge is far more carebear, because there's zero risk. None, whatsoever. x2 raids of lvl 14-16's at WFP gates killing brand new lvl 10 and 11 players is [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Double [I cannot control my vocabulary] when some lvl 30 comes and pulls the guards away just so the twink raid can zerg the nooblets. You, my friends, are the carebears. All of you clowns need to learn what "Real pvp" is. One sided twink t2 ganking isn't it.</blockquote>Don't you think there's a risk for the new players? You say there's no risk for the level lockers, but do they deserve a risk? They worked to get the gear/AA/Adept IIIs they have, even if they did it with a level 70 character. Do you want that work to be a waste just because new players just want the game to give everything they need to them at the start.All level 70s had to start at level 1 just like everyone else. Did they quit the game at level 10 because of level locking ganksquads? No. Did they give up because someone killed them while they were trying to harvest? No. Did they pick themselves back up after dying and kept going until they reached level 70? Yes.The people who leave the game are probably people who don't want to work to gain the rewards they do want. The people who stay suffered through the game long enough to be able to enjoy the rewards of having all that money from whatever it is level 70s do to get that much money. It is their money, they earned it, you can't tell them how to spend it. If they want to twink out low level characters, they should be able to. If they want to spend it all on a nice in-game house with over nine thousand furniture items so their characters can enjoy their life while everyone else sleeps in the street because they don't want to pay 5 silver a week for a place to live, whatever, it's their money. If they want to hire an army of players to go out and PvP for them, they should probably go PvP themselves instead of paying others to do it for them, but at least I don't have to pay for it.</blockquote>Suffered through the game long enough? Most lvl 70's on nagafen leveled through t2 at a time when there were no twink lockers, and most lvl 70's on nagafen had blue server experience, ie, they were already familiar with the game. I started on nagafen when pvp went live, and pvp at all tiers all the way up was a blast. Wasn't like this no risk ganking crap we have now in t2. the people that leave the game are probably just disgusted with a poor excuse for a game mechanic, having no idea that pvp after t2 is actually competitive instead of one sided. They get the up front lopsided gank experience and they leave. Has nothing to do with working for what they want. They don't get the opportunity to. And personally, being an experienced player, I had no desire to put in hours of gametime to equip a character for one craptastic tier of pvp and just plowed through it. i know what pvp beyond t2 is like, new players don't. lvl lockers aren't pvping. If they really wanted pvp they'd lvl up to 30+ where pvp gets a bit more involved than one sided ganking. They'd stop rolling in x2 blasting solo's with little to no competition and evac'ing from the first sign of a threatening group or x2 from the other side. Or hell, they'd stay in their own noob zone and fight the other gank groups/x2's, but that's not what they do. They head to the other side's noob zone for the easy kills. That is not pvp.

Tae

10-23-2007, 08:13 PM

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Don't you think there's a risk for the new players? You say there's no risk for the level lockers, but do they deserve a risk? They worked to get the gear/AA/Adept IIIs they have, even if they did it with a level 70 character. Do you want that work to be a waste just because new players just want the game to give everything they need to them at the start.All level 70s had to start at level 1 just like everyone else. Did they quit the game at level 10 because of level locking ganksquads? No. Did they give up because someone killed them while they were trying to harvest? No. Did they pick themselves back up after dying and kept going until they reached level 70? Yes.</blockquote>If they worked hard at getting stuff for their level 22, why can't they "work hard" at getting to level 70? One of the biggest arguments is that they want to PvP right now with no long effort required to get to 70. If they're spending lots of time getting their characters good at level 22, why can't they do it at 70? And I don't want the new players to be given "everything" at the start. I want the new players to actually have a start. There's a difference between wanting the huge unkillable groups removed and making the new players into Conan. Plus most level 70s, as said, levelled up when the gank squads weren't around. I know I did. I never went out and spent hours harvesting either, I just levelled. I picked up the game and I played it. These gank squads are preventing the new players from doing that, and are forcing them into spending ages gearing up just so they can have fun when they begin.

MMKA

10-23-2007, 08:23 PM

I have found that T3 and T4 is more difficult when it comes to gank squads and overpowered players than T2 ever was. I have a 41 fully mastered, with legendary gear that gets owned constantly by T3's in PVP gear. I hit for 20% damage every time and normally die in less than 10 seconds. By comparison, I have a couple T2 toons that can hold their own against just about anyone in the level range. There are twinks and gank squads at every level. The only way to make it completely fair is to get rid of level locking, get rid of aa, give everyone the same armor and limit play time to an hour a day for everyone. Anything less than that is useless micromanagement and a complete waste of time.

Hinosh

10-23-2007, 08:24 PM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Don't you think there's a risk for the new players? You say there's no risk for the level lockers, but do they deserve a risk? They worked to get the gear/AA/Adept IIIs they have, even if they did it with a level 70 character. Do you want that work to be a waste just because new players just want the game to give everything they need to them at the start. All level 70s had to start at level 1 just like everyone else. Did they quit the game at level 10 because of level locking ganksquads? No. Did they give up because someone killed them while they were trying to harvest? No. Did they pick themselves back up after dying and kept going until they reached level 70? Yes.</blockquote>If they worked hard at getting stuff for their level 22, why can't they "work hard" at getting to level 70? One of the biggest arguments is that they want to PvP right now with no long effort required to get to 70. If they're spending lots of time getting their characters good at level 22, why can't they do it at 70?And I don't want the new players to be given "everything" at the start. I want the new players to actually have a start. There's a difference between wanting the huge unkillable groups removed and making the new players into Conan.Plus most level 70s, as said, levelled up when the gank squads weren't around. I know I did. I never went out and spent hours harvesting either, I just levelled. I picked up the game and I played it. These gank squads are preventing the new players from doing that, and are forcing them into spending ages gearing up just so they can have fun when they begin.</blockquote>Don't you know how much XP is gained from killing something levels 10-19? You could level up to 20 from 10 by killing 300 mobs. Only 300. Because PvE is so easy in this game, and XP debt was removed from PvP servers, leveling up is easy enough to fly by it without having to deal with the twinks for very long. It's not like they PvP 24/7. They might on Nagafen, but on Venekor, I'm able to level lock my characters to gain faction with the writgivers in the cities without dealing with constant PvP ganksquads.And other thing, are the level 70s who started from the beginning the only ones there now? No. That must mean people are suffering through T2 to get to 70.

Tae

10-23-2007, 08:29 PM

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And other thing, are the level 70s who started from the beginning the only ones there now? No. That must mean people are suffering through T2 to get to 70.</blockquote>Or they just level up in Gfay where there's basically nobody. Plus, there's really not a lot of new 70s. Every day it's the same people. Seeing a green or a blue at level 70 is one hell of a rare occurance, and usually said blue or green is just an alt of a current level 70 anyway. I saw three today, and every single one is someone I already know has a level 70. This isn't as true right now since Tribunal has a full group of people just hitting 70, but they've been levelling as a full group for a good while so they're somewhat of a special case. And MMKA, it is a problem at other tiers too. The best way to fix it is just remove level locking. Then everyone needs to get to 70 where diminishing returns make all but the absolute best loot mean very little anyway. You get your EoF set as you level, and the collection items the same way, and you can compete easily. I also really think the new player guides make the problem worse. As someone mentioned earlier many new players are locking themselves and just staying there. I can understand it, as if they've just spent a week gearing up for something they're unlikely to want to just have that time wasted by levelling out of the tier. An awful lot of the level lockers don't have level 70 characters at all anymore, and aren't really "twinks" in the strictest sense of the word.

Tarlok

10-23-2007, 08:47 PM

Most of the ones that get through the t2 blockade are those that at least know a little bit about the game, or have conisderable experience in the pve side. Of the truly new players that come here to pvp with no prior eq2 experience one could probably say well less than half stick around much past level 10.Just imagine how awesome the pvp servers would be today if this large percentage of new players were not driven off right away. Every server would be probably have about even pupulations with the less pupular Vox laging behind a bit but not like it is now.The selfish lockers have admitted it, they don't care about the future of this game. It actualy makes their day every time they drive away yet another player in t2. They see nothing wrong with driving the pvp side down the crapper as they will just move on to the next "great mmo" and leave behind the smoking ruin that is quickly becoming eq2 pvp. I tell my friends at work about eq2 and the pvp side of things. They will hear none of the good things all they know is the t2 blockade. This game is becoming known as one of the least newbie friendly pvp games out there. For the record, yes I blame t2 locking and the eternal gankfest that is t2 for this.I know people that would rather play Vanguard pvp than this game...now tell me that isn't screwed up when a half finished, badly coded, horrible player models/graphics, craptastic at best game nowhere near as polished as eq2 is more desirable to play for pvp.

ladyvengeance

10-23-2007, 09:09 PM

I'm really getting tired of hearing the same arguments from the same people....it's just a different thread title. Guess what? If you don't like level locked twinks.....level past them. Or go to a PvE server. Simple as that. Removing level locking is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. Tons of people will quit. The people who post on this forum make up less than 1% of the EQ2 population. Just because someone comes on here and whines about level lockers does not mean that everyone who plays the game feels that way. Now a level locked twink who goes into DLW and ganks 10s all day is bad form, but just make a 17 and gank them. That's what I do. Or even better --- my lvl 11 twink goes in there and ganks them as well. I usuallly stay away from the noob level 10s - one shotting people gets old. At least the 14s give me somewhat of a challenge.And who the hell are you to TELL people how to play this game? They paid money for it and pay the monthly subscription fee. Who are you to tell them how to play?

Tarlok

10-23-2007, 09:28 PM

I honestly hope they remove locking completely. I really do. Even if they limit locking to a min level of 30 that is a good start. Let the lockers quit I honestly don't care if they leave. In fact this game would be a lot better off if they did leave. Locking is an outdated mechanic that is no longer necessary. As has been stated many times you can easily get 100 aa by 70 if not before just playing the game.

Bloodfa

10-23-2007, 09:52 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm really getting tired of hearing the same arguments from the same people....it's just a different thread title. Guess what? If you don't like level locked twinks.....level past them. Or go to a PvE server. Simple as that. Removing level locking is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. Tons of people will quit. The people who post on this forum make up less than 1% of the EQ2 population. Just because someone comes on here and whines about level lockers does not mean that everyone who plays the game feels that way. Now a level locked twink who goes into DLW and ganks 10s all day is bad form, but just make a 17 and gank them. That's what I do. Or even better --- my lvl 11 twink goes in there and ganks them as well. I usuallly stay away from the noob level 10s - one shotting people gets old. At least the 14s give me somewhat of a challenge.And who the hell are you to TELL people how to play this game? They paid money for it and pay the monthly subscription fee. Who are you to tell them how to play?</blockquote>That sword cuts both ways. Either way, somebody's being forced into a playstyle that they don't want, and yet they're paying for the game. As far as "tons of people would quit", that's wrong. What, maybe 5%? And that's being generous. That 5% could easily be replaced by new players, like those that went from PvP to PvE because of the T2 debacle. Those lockers with 70's would, in all probability, go back to playing their 70's, and the others who didn't decide to take their ball and go home would just level up much more slowly from strictly PvP experience. The impact wouldn't be earth-shattering, and the servers wouldn't suddenly be barren. On the subject of the numbers that complain about lockers, every time I'm in a home zone (well, okay, not every time, but it sure seems like it) somebody's doing an OOC or shout and asking if it's always this bad.Yes, it's the same argument from a different angle. It is tiring. And old. Just imagine what it's been like for those that have been at it for a long time.

ladyvengeance

10-23-2007, 10:18 PM

BS. Removing level locking will destroy pvp. I also read the chat for T1-T5 (I have high level crafters) and every time this subject comes up it's divided, but a ton of people have said they they will definitely quit if they remove level locking. Believe me, it's a hell of a lot more than 5%. By removing level locking you're basically saying that the bulk of pvp should be reserved for T7, and all the other tiers and zones are just a waste of time. It will never happen.

Bloodfa

10-23-2007, 10:24 PM

Every time a change comes up in discussion, people threaten to quit. Most don't. It's an idle threat for most. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't think either one of us is going to change the others' mind. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Amphibia

10-23-2007, 11:08 PM

I am guessing the real question is how many new players are getting scared away from the game because of the endless ganking? You see, ganking level 13 or level 16 newbies isn't much better than ganking the level 10 ones. The only difference is that even experienced players stands little chance at level 10 due to the fact that MC armor can't be used until level 12. But my guess is that the developers would know better than any of us what is good for the game in the long run. They have the numbers. Though it's impossible not to notice all the threads here from newcomers that refers to T2 as "a nightmare"....To SOE, this is about the money. Maybe they're thinking that they can afford to lose a few in order to make things bearable for those that are new to the game. I can understand the issues with too much faction being demanded for low level PvP gear - but if they're gonna move the limit for level locking, maybe that will get fixed at the same time.

greenmantle

10-23-2007, 11:13 PM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm really getting tired of hearing the same arguments from the same people....it's just a different thread title. Guess what? If you don't like level locked twinks.....level past them.And who the hell are you to TELL people how to play this game? They paid money for it and pay the monthly subscription fee. Who are you to tell them how to play?</blockquote>Now i cant get the tune out of my head , Its my party and i can gank if i want to. Does any one flash back to the start of saving private ryan. I can see a german machine gunner killing troops by the boat load saying , but i had to climb the beach , why dont they just get over it. What you are not talking about isnt combat it isnt pvp it is people who enjoy griefing others killing them multiple times for no self beifit just for the pleasure of thinking they are spoiling some ones day, thank god there is pvp it probably stops them setting fire to kittens. Yes there are valid reasons for level locking but they are small in comparison to the problems it creates. You get tired of hearing people trying to come up with creative ways to help people trying pvp, or tired pf people that show the sense to realise a healty population is in their own interest, or just tired of people pointing out that level locking and getting your jollies dancing on the corpse of a level 10 newb doesnt make you tough it just makes you rather pitiful?

Bloodfa

10-23-2007, 11:22 PM

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am guessing the real question is how many new players are getting scared away from the game because of the endless ganking? You see, ganking level 13 or level 16 newbies isn't much better than ganking the level 10 ones. The only difference is that even experienced players stands little chance at level 10 due to the fact that MC armor can't be used until level 12. But my guess is that the developers would know better than any of us what is good for the game in the long run. They have the numbers. Though it's impossible not to notice all the threads here from newcomers that refers to T2 as "a nightmare"....To SOE, this is about the money. Maybe they're thinking that they can afford to lose a few in order to make things bearable for those that are new to the game. I can understand the issues with too much faction being demanded for low level PvP gear - but if they're gonna move the limit for level locking, maybe that will get fixed at the same time.</blockquote>They do that and I'll be a lot more quiet. That alone should be worth something.

Tae

10-24-2007, 08:56 AM

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>BS. Removing level locking will destroy pvp. I also read the chat for T1-T5 (I have high level crafters) and every time this subject comes up it's divided, but a ton of people have said they they will definitely quit if they remove level locking. Believe me, it's a hell of a lot more than 5%. By removing level locking you're basically saying that the bulk of pvp should be reserved for T7, and all the other tiers and zones are just a waste of time. </blockquote>The devs recognise level locking as a problem, they said as much at Fanfaire. I've never seen anyone say they'll quit if level locking is removed. (excluding you and wildfury here on the forums) And good, the highest tiers SHOULD be where the majority of the PvP happens. T7 PvP still occurs in places like CL, and Ant, and Kunark is going to be huge huge amounts of area that the lockers will never see and will hopefully be good for PvP. SoE isn't making all this new content for people to stick at level 10 and never see it. But people will still fight at lower tiers, it'll just be more equal because they won't be allowed to spend 30 bloody days locked there so they're unkillable by people trying to level through.