Don't knock FFA if you haven't tried it. [Archive]

Fodslad

10-21-2007, 12:07 PM

Change VOX into a FFA server and I promise you the pop there would jump. Having recently gone through the huge whine session when Vanguard went to FFA all you heard was there will be nothing but non stop ganking, well I have been ganked more times on my first trip from the CL docks to the front gates of queynos then I was in 10 levels of VG. Why?FFA pvp has its consequences, eg: Kids toon level 20 was getting camped by a couple of level 40 griefers, partner says "hold on guildies incoming" In flies 3 level 50's who promptly dispatch the problem.Feuds develop: When the new raid zones open one of the top guilds on the server has already laid claim to being the first one in, show up and you will die, this will force other guilds to align and try and take them out. Doesn't that sound fun or is it more fun to take 6 locked and twinked untouchables and bowl over a bunch of newbs? Oh and don't bother to tell me to go back to VG, I just wanted to set the record straight that FFA provides more lore and more war and is not one big gankfest which is the state of pvp today.

Aldhissla

10-21-2007, 03:11 PM

I agree with you in any regard.Additionaly to being more fun than the current (more or less boring) system, it would add a reason to pvp, since you would constantly be in need of helping out / being helped out.FFA pvp would remove all the title hugging since you could lose your title to a higher lvl character anyways.I can't see any reason not to introduce FFA pvp.

Fodslad

10-21-2007, 04:41 PM

Unfortunately the title holders would hate FFA because now they would become the hunted.Reasons for pvp'ing in FFA:Someone doesn't want to share a spawn or spawns, let's dance then.You are at war with another guild.Someone just plain is annoying.Someone is griefing someone who is much lower level and that person asks for help.I asked why no one was helping out the other day when I was continually getting ganked at level 10 in DL and was told "Why should I risk losing status helping you" Pitiful when you think about it.Don't get me wrong I am not whining about getting ganked because I love FPS games and since EQ2 has become kind of a medevil quake that's ok but I miss playing a game that has consequence and a sense of order then one with none.

Xova

10-21-2007, 05:18 PM

I'd only be up for an FFA ruleset on Vox is the following applied:<ul><li>Chest/token drops remained tied to the +/-8 level "con" system</li><li>Infamy system is removed (get.rid.of.titles)</li><li>PvP remains factional (Q's can't kill Q's, FP can't kill FP). Yes there are FP'ers I would love to kill, but I'd rather not have to watch my back against my own faction.</li></ul>

dremtak

10-21-2007, 06:37 PM

i would really like to see an all out pvp server as well, but instead of replacing infamy i would like to see it reworked to reward those that engage in pvp more often and somehow see it tie into faction count and some sort of valid /good kill calculation. in no way do i know how to do that , but i think it would be somthing worthy of looking into.perhaps make a ffa test server and see how many log on to it to see what sort of interest it would spark might be a good start?

Novusod

10-21-2007, 08:19 PM

The only FFA type game I played was Lineage II. The pvp in that game was just lame. I was attacked a couple of times by people 40 levels above me and that was it. Nobody pvp'ed at the low levels. I have indeed tried FFA and I didn't like it one bit.

Netzoko

10-21-2007, 09:24 PM

Wait, are we talking FFA as in Qs can attack Qs and FPs can attack other FPs?If so, I'm in 100%. The current system, like WoWs, is teh suck. If someone is camping a spawn I want, I should be able to wtfpwn his face, even if he's a citizen of the same city as me. Heck, just because I live in Atlanta doesn't mean other Atlantians cannot attack me.This would draw in tons of new players to EQ2. A huge reason people avoid it for games like EVE is because the PvP here kinda blows. We have already seen how popular exile is.Making it FFA with maybe a flag system would be great. It could work like UO's system: You kill someone, you get a murder count. If you have 5 murder counts you turn "red" and guards attack you automatically in certain towns, say FP and Q. You could be allowed in, say, Haven though. Also, these murder counts decay one every 5 hours or something.

Norrsken

10-21-2007, 09:26 PM

<cite>Netzoko wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, are we talking FFA as in Qs can attack Qs and FPs can attack other FPs?If so, I'm in 100%. The current system, like WoWs, is teh suck. If someone is camping a spawn I want, I should be able to wtfpwn his face, even if he's a citizen of the same city as me. Heck, just because I live in Atlanta doesn't mean other Atlantians cannot attack me.This would draw in tons of new players to EQ2. A huge reason people avoid it for games like EVE is because the PvP here kinda blows. We have already seen how popular exile is.Making it FFA with maybe a flag system would be great. It could work like UO's system: You kill someone, you get a murder count. If you have 5 murder counts you turn "red" and guards attack you automatically in certain towns, say FP and Q. You could be allowed in, say, Haven though. Also, these murder counts decay one every 5 hours or something.</blockquote>Jsut use the already existingf action system. If you kill your own, say bye bye to the faction gear.

10-21-2007, 09:57 PM

I heard bringing back RZ was a great idea.

Bloodfa

10-21-2007, 10:05 PM

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Netzoko wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, are we talking FFA as in Qs can attack Qs and FPs can attack other FPs?If so, I'm in 100%. The current system, like WoWs, is teh suck. If someone is camping a spawn I want, I should be able to wtfpwn his face, even if he's a citizen of the same city as me. Heck, just because I live in Atlanta doesn't mean other Atlantians cannot attack me.This would draw in tons of new players to EQ2. A huge reason people avoid it for games like EVE is because the PvP here kinda blows. We have already seen how popular exile is.Making it FFA with maybe a flag system would be great. It could work like UO's system: You kill someone, you get a murder count. If you have 5 murder counts you turn "red" and guards attack you automatically in certain towns, say FP and Q. You could be allowed in, say, Haven though. Also, these murder counts decay one every 5 hours or something.</blockquote>Just use the already existing faction system. If you kill your own, say bye bye to the faction gear.</blockquote>And yet some folks just don't get it.

Netzoko

10-22-2007, 01:00 AM

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Netzoko wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, are we talking FFA as in Qs can attack Qs and FPs can attack other FPs?If so, I'm in 100%. The current system, like WoWs, is teh suck. If someone is camping a spawn I want, I should be able to wtfpwn his face, even if he's a citizen of the same city as me. Heck, just because I live in Atlanta doesn't mean other Atlantians cannot attack me.This would draw in tons of new players to EQ2. A huge reason people avoid it for games like EVE is because the PvP here kinda blows. We have already seen how popular exile is.Making it FFA with maybe a flag system would be great. It could work like UO's system: You kill someone, you get a murder count. If you have 5 murder counts you turn "red" and guards attack you automatically in certain towns, say FP and Q. You could be allowed in, say, Haven though. Also, these murder counts decay one every 5 hours or something.</blockquote>Just use the already existing faction system. If you kill your own, say bye bye to the faction gear.</blockquote>And yet some folks just don't get it.</blockquote>I don't.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Explain?

RallyVale

10-22-2007, 06:54 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only FFA type game I played was Lineage II. The pvp in that game was just lame. I was attacked a couple of times by people 40 levels above me and that was it. Nobody pvp'ed at the low levels. I have indeed tried FFA and I didn't like it one bit.</blockquote>I played Lineage II also, I do remember a whole lot of camping, especially around dungeon entrances. I also remember the first char I made there was a human, and there was an Orc standing around in the newb zone one-shotting people as they spawned, for who knows what reason. Then I made a Dark Elf instead, since there were a million of them not a lot of people without a group to back them up were willing to turn red. Yes, those were the guys standing around at dungeons. No I don't like FFA very much either.

Darq

10-23-2007, 12:29 AM

<cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Change VOX into a FFA server and I promise you the pop there would jump. Having recently gone through the huge whine session when Vanguard went to FFA all you heard was there will be nothing but non stop ganking, well I have been ganked more times on my first trip from the CL docks to the front gates of queynos then I was in 10 levels of VG. Why?FFA pvp has its consequences, eg: Kids toon level 20 was getting camped by a couple of level 40 griefers, partner says "hold on guildies incoming" In flies 3 level 50's who promptly dispatch the problem.Feuds develop: When the new raid zones open one of the top guilds on the server has already laid claim to being the first one in, show up and you will die, this will force other guilds to align and try and take them out. Doesn't that sound fun or is it more fun to take 6 locked and twinked untouchables and bowl over a bunch of newbs? Oh and don't bother to tell me to go back to VG, I just wanted to set the record straight that FFA provides more lore and more war and is not one big gankfest which is the state of pvp today.</blockquote>and trust me when i tell you that eq2 ffa isn't going to work.- not enough zones of equal levelrange- no penalty system for attacking/killing innocents- no real penalty when being killedfor instancedaoc pvp servers. they're ffa and compareable to eq2 just with a larger landmass.you get attacked by anyone , no matter which level you are, if you're worth points or not. in the end server were deserted.an example of a working concept was m59. however people got killed too much and left. but at that time there were only a handful of players playing mmorpgs at all. people also had a different mindset.you need articial rules on a ffa server, i never thought i would say this, but you also need roleplayers, and carebears and dedicated crafters on a ffa server. and you need a ruleset, a system to protect them and punish murderers, which eq2 does not have. and you'd need more than 4 towns, you'd need an alot bigger world. you'd need a different game.

Darq

10-23-2007, 12:35 AM

<cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unfortunately the title holders would hate FFA because now they would become the hunted.Reasons for pvp'ing in FFA:Someone doesn't want to share a spawn or spawns, let's dance then.You are at war with another guild.Someone just plain is annoying.Someone is griefing someone who is much lower level and that person asks for help.I asked why no one was helping out the other day when I was continually getting ganked at level 10 in DL and was told "Why should I risk losing status helping you" Pitiful when you think about it.Don't get me wrong I am not whining about getting ganked because I love FPS games and since EQ2 has become kind of a medevil quake that's ok but I miss playing a game that has consequence and a sense of order then one with none.</blockquote>- just because, no reason at alland i agree death in eq2 has no consequence, i still like this game and its occasional and sometimes not so occasional pvp when questing.

Spyderbite

10-23-2007, 12:39 AM

<cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Oh and don't bother to tell me to go back to VG, I just wanted to set the record straight that FFA provides more lore and more war and is not one big gankfest which is the state of pvp today.</blockquote>Stop sugar coating it. Yes it is.Ganking and griefing were birthed from FFA PvP systems dating back all the way to MOO's and MUD's.If there's enough interest.. create a new server or offer free transfers off an existing one to be converted. Cause while there will be a population spike at first by those who are curious.. eventually, as seen in all other FFA environments.. the population dwindles down to the same people fighting each other night after night and begging people from other servers to come play. But, we already have T7 for that.. ^^

ThomasGrey

10-25-2007, 01:21 PM

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Oh and don't bother to tell me to go back to VG, I just wanted to set the record straight that FFA provides more lore and more war and is not one big gankfest which is the state of pvp today.</blockquote>Stop sugar coating it. Yes it is.Ganking and griefing were birthed from FFA PvP systems dating back all the way to MOO's and MUD's.If there's enough interest.. create a new server or offer free transfers off an existing one to be converted. Cause while there will be a population spike at first by those who are curious.. eventually, as seen in all other FFA environments.. the population dwindles down to the same people fighting each other night after night and begging people from other servers to come play. But, we already have T7 for that.. ^^</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. FFA = Accountability for you actions, while Factions = anonamous griefing. When half of the server are hard coded allies, you can do whatever you want, grief whoever you want, and not worry about finding allies and friends. Take away factions and your actions define who you are.Today on Nagafen, you can camp lowbies with your twink all day and all night and nobody will every care or bother to even catch your name.You try the same thing in FFA and you'll be remembered and reciprocated upon.FFA encourages cohesion, congregation, politics, meaningful guild interaction.If they put an FFA server up, I can think of entire guilds that would come to EQ2 to play. There is no competition for FFA pvp right now and Conan won't be out for at least 6 months.

Greenion

10-25-2007, 01:26 PM

id advise either finish out fully catering to the pve crowd that is pvp curious or follow through the rest of teh way with the swing and create a logicly based pvp system that encourages adventurous and desperate altercation...instead of who is best at track and field.and i'd do it in less than 6 months.edit> aoc launch is set for early march - fore months.

Tae

10-25-2007, 08:52 PM

<cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA pvp has its consequences, eg: Kids toon level 20 was getting camped by a couple of level 40 griefers, partner says "hold on guildies incoming" In flies 3 level 50's who promptly dispatch the problem.</blockquote>In flies three level 50s who need to get to Commonlands/Antonica/Darklight Woods and by that point the people who just killed your offspring's character have all gone somewhere else. I've played Shadowbane and UO, and I enjoyed the Free For All PvP systems that existed there. However both games as well as EVE differ from EQ2 in one very large way. They have absolutely massive worlds. The first two are both seamless worlds as well. You can't camp the newbies because the newbies are spread out along a pretty large area. However for both there were hotspots. Like in the Lineage II example given, when newbies are always going to be gathered in a certain easy to reach area people can turn up and kill them at their leisure for no paticular reason. In Shadowbane there was the area outside of Kings Cross - stay around there and you'd end up dead pretty fast. EQ2 would all be like the area outside of Kings Cross, simply because there's not really anywhere to go other than two or three zones with obvious 'hotspots'. All a person would have to do is hang around near the crossroads in CL or even stand near the spires and they'd end up with lots and lots of dead newbies. And as soon as they see someone on track that could actually fight them they could turn around and run off. Or even Evac. I don't understand how having an FFA system in this game is supposed to stop the newbie griefing. All I can see is it getting worse because now they can be killed by people who can literally oneshot them while absolutely invisible to them on track. It wouldn't allow people to swoop in and save lowbies from the twink squads unless the "savers" just happened to be in the same place while the twinks killed the legit lowbies. This has happened to me maybe twice, as twinks have killed people near the spire. I've also been a lowbie exile. Even at 4am on the Darathar server - a time when you'd do a /who all and see maybe 10 people online - I'd end up dying every time I went near the spires to try and cross to Ant/CL. It's like the argument people have here in the UK for putting more police on the streets - all it does is allow them to stop crimes that just happen to be going on as they walk nearby. It doesn't make it any easier to track down the people who've committed it.

convict

10-26-2007, 07:09 AM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA pvp has its consequences, eg: Kids toon level 20 was getting camped by a couple of level 40 griefers, partner says "hold on guildies incoming" In flies 3 level 50's who promptly dispatch the problem.</blockquote>In flies three level 50s who need to get to Commonlands/Antonica/Darklight Woods and by that point the people who just killed your offspring's character have all gone somewhere else.</blockquote>Exactly.. This is why you hardly see anyone come help in the noob area's because they know, once they show up, then its just a matter of zoning back and forth.. Wont work with all these zones.. My group of 4 showed up to kill a FULL group of white/yellow FP in the caves and they zoned instead of fighting 4 v 6...

Aerlyn

10-26-2007, 01:10 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have much experience playing in a FFA pvp game, but I'm also wondering if another aspect of EQ2 makes it difficult to adopt FFA; namely the entire factioned Good vs Evil concept along with the fact that communication is completely restricted.Consider this: If you play FFA in a game where there are no factions, where you could potentially be grouping with people instead of killing them, and where you can actually communicate with your enemies, then you might think twice about griefing newbies. You might not want to get that reputation as "the griefer". I think most people don't really want to be jerks (although there are still quite a few people that do).However, in EQ2, you are pitted against each other by the game mechanics itself. Simply by choosing a side, you have nearly half the server population that won't bat an eyelash at you griefing members of the opposing faction, or exiles. Why? First off, because there's no communication. Now I realize that there are downsides to being able to communicate with the opposing faction. However, as it is right now, people can grief other players while wrapped in a protective cloak of annonimity. In addition, I'm thinking that in a FFA pvp game where you can group with people instead of killing them, you might not want to gain that reputation as "the griefer" because you might alienate some of the population from grouping with you, or trading with you, or interacting with you in other ways. I'd personally love to see the ability for people of opposing factions to group together in some situations if they chose. Some people would complain about that because it's "against the lore of the game" or something, but I'm sure you could work out a logical story explanation. Think about books and movies with a pure Good vs Evil theme; they're usually pretty boring. Things get interesting when that bad guy turns out to be not so bad, or that good guy turns out to be a cold-hearted jerk. Almost nothing in life is so black and white.

Greenion

10-26-2007, 01:55 PM

sounds like you have it about right to me.

fugutait

10-26-2007, 03:10 PM

<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd only be up for an FFA ruleset on Vox is the following applied:<ul><li>Chest/token drops remained tied to the +/-8 level "con" system</li><li>Infamy system is removed (get.rid.of.titles)</li><li>PvP remains factional (Q's can't kill Q's, FP can't kill FP). Yes there are FP'ers I would love to kill, but I'd rather not have to watch my back against my own faction.</li></ul></blockquote>/signed

fugutait

10-26-2007, 03:13 PM

<cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fodslad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Oh and don't bother to tell me to go back to VG, I just wanted to set the record straight that FFA provides more lore and more war and is not one big gankfest which is the state of pvp today.</blockquote>Stop sugar coating it. Yes it is.Ganking and griefing were birthed from FFA PvP systems dating back all the way to MOO's and MUD's.If there's enough interest.. create a new server or offer free transfers off an existing one to be converted. Cause while there will be a population spike at first by those who are curious.. eventually, as seen in all other FFA environments.. the population dwindles down to the same people fighting each other night after night and begging people from other servers to come play. But, we already have T7 for that.. ^^</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. FFA = Accountability for you actions, while Factions = anonamous griefing. When half of the server are hard coded allies, you can do whatever you want, grief whoever you want, and not worry about finding allies and friends. Take away factions and your actions define who you are.Today on Nagafen, you can camp lowbies with your twink all day and all night and nobody will every care or bother to even catch your name.You try the same thing in FFA and you'll be remembered and reciprocated upon.FFA encourages cohesion, congregation, politics, meaningful guild interaction.If they put an FFA server up, I can think of entire guilds that would come to EQ2 to play. There is no competition for FFA pvp right now and Conan won't be out for at least 6 months.</blockquote>It baffles my mind how there is no FFA pvp server from start...thats should be the default and the rest of this crap should be secondary.

Kkolbe

10-28-2007, 08:23 PM

good read ffa ftw

phatpatpjp1

10-28-2007, 08:24 PM

FFA FTW <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Greenion

10-29-2007, 08:21 AM

you folks realize that if they took away the level differential of chars disabling adventure experience, itd basicly be nearly a factional version of ffa - since a large percentage of chars disable their adv exp.factions would be retained.factional rewards would be retained.teams would stay teh same.the only change is to lift the level differential as a downside to the upside of being able to arrest ingame progression and toggle it optionally.there is an ffa option ingame, it is the exile faction, most players are so dependent on level differentials i think it scare the willies outa them.why one is scared of virtual violence i have no clear physchological reasoning to forward.the exile faction does not have any fluff-n-stuffz like the factions do - woopdidoo.they arent going to initiate creation of an entirely different ruleset as a device at this point in this game's development (folks need get that through their heads) - way too much money involved for the possible return (itd turn a loss)they may however continue to diversify the current ruleset in ways - um i would encourage the playerbase to possibly consider two things from this post :the single change i am proposing. (lift the level differential of chars disabling adventure experience)the vast unlikelihood of soe investing in the creation of an entirely different pvp ruleset at this point in the populace of pvp in eqii.thank you for your time and have a nice day.