Ranger buffs still 2 high?

[Siphar]

<p>My assassin has end game gear, 410 defence and 431 parry yet Ranger's can still cast 2 self buffs and hit me every single time.. not only that, almost every hit is a crit. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Add in their silly long delay bows and other long range bows and <b>IMHO</b> you truly get an OP class.</p><p>Personally speaking I don't mind how fast they run but I do mind them being able to kill any non-brawler in 2-3 seconds (with potential for another certain kill) within their 10 second all-buffs-active bracket.</p><p>Various posts <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=376286" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">>including here<</a> have already clearly shown that the rangers can buff their skillz "<i><b>significantly</b></i>" higher than my assassin can (and they are supposed to be equally set according to EQ2 with the obvious difference that assassin's = melee and rangers = ranged), <i><b>AND</b></i> they can do all their damage at a minimum range of 35m?</p><p>I hope to see some changes in the next update if not sooner... how long will these glaringly (IMHO) OP buffs go unnoticed for?</p><p>/sigh</p>

[Siphar]

I would also like to add that attaining end game gear by now should and is trivial.. any non-new non-bot ranger should (and does) possess these capabilities..

[Krakelkr]

It's just for 10-15 seconds. And while it raises ranged by 123, it lowers slashing and piercing by 192 (Master 2).(I assume you have no gripes with offensive stance raising ranged)

[Mildavyn]

<p>You do know that the hard cap on skills is 450 (or ery close to it, i forget the exact number)</p><p>So that buff is complete overkill and probably half of it does absolutely nothing. Also, I'm not sure what the buff assasins get does numbers wise, but I'd be shocked if they aren't in the same boat, having their melee skills caped and wasting part of the buff anyways.</p><p>That buff could add +300 to ranged and it would have the same effect, and be no more effective than an assasins anyways. If you're going to complain about things, make sure your complaint is VALID before you voice it please. </p>

[Necodem]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You do know that the hard cap on skills is 450 (or ery close to it, i forget the exact number)</p><p>So that buff is complete overkill and probably half of it does absolutely nothing. Also, I'm not sure what the buff assasins get does numbers wise, but I'd be shocked if they aren't in the same boat, having their melee skills caped and wasting part of the buff anyways.</p><p>That buff could add +300 to ranged and it would have the same effect, and be no more effective than an assasins anyways. If you're going to complain about things, make sure your complaint is VALID before you voice it please. </p></blockquote>There are no skill cap, but 455 is enough against a lvl70.

[Mildavyn]

<p>I'm almost certain that there is a 'hard-cap' at which point adding anything more does completely nothing against a level 70 toon. Obviously your skills are contested vs your opponent, but I'm pretty sure 450 is the point where you don't get anything out of adding more.</p><p>Let me see if I can find a reference...</p><p>EDIT: 455 sounds right, i may have been wrong about the number.</p>

[Tae]

To be quite honest I don't really think there's anything that can be done to make rangers more in-line with other classes without just ruining them completely. The very nature of the ranger class is absolutely perfect for how PvP works in Everquest 2. Firstly, they have track. This is helpful for the other scout classes too, but it's more helpful for a ranger because they can not only see you from a huge distance, but they can also attack you from it. Secondly they have stealth. Stealth is a nice ability, but it's not as nice for the scout classes who need to melee - when you come into melee range of a person, they can see you. They have some warning. With a ranger against a person without totems (which is a lot of people) and even against a person with totems who's not looking in exactly the right direction, you've got first attack. And most importantly they have the ability that all scouts have. That of the absolutely massive damage spike at the beginning of a combat. This is dealt from a huge distance away, you can't parry, block or otherwise avoid it because of their Focused Aim skill buff and the time it takes you to turn and find them is time in which you've been killed. But honestly, what can be done about it? That's the nature of EQ2 PvP, and if you change any of these things about the ranger they're basically not even the same class any longer.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip> you can't parry, block or otherwise avoid it because of their Focused Aim skill buff <snip></blockquote><p>Always with the sensational claims. You can. If you look over your logs of fights with rangers, you'll see that you DO parry some attacks, and if you use a shield, you'll be looking at 10-20% block chance.</p><p>Blocking is UNCONTESTED. If your personae screen says you have a 17% chance to block, then you will block 17% of all attacks from infront of you. Doesn't matter if the ranger's ranged skill is 12 or 1200. It does not matter for blocking.</p><p>Admitedly your parry chance will be quite low, because parry IS contested, but it is there, and there are portions of your parry score which are uncontested as well. Those wrist-slot adornments which add 2% parry. Those are uncontested. Any achievements which add a % chance to parry, those are uncontested. +parry does help, but not nearly as much as % parry.</p><p>All added up, you can look forward to 20-30% avoidance against a ranger with his temp buffs up. Depending on if you use a shield, and if you use adornments, and what achievements you have.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

You said it right paikis block is from the front.  When was the last time a ranger hit your from the front? 

[Mildavyn]

<p>Well I have track, so they almost never get to shoot at my back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Taear also has track, so I assumed he'd do the same thing.</p><p>How hard is it to run around with your target clear though? As soon as you take damage, hit your auto-attack and you'll auto-face the ranger. Problem solved. Just make sure you turn it off before something procs.</p><p>Those adornments and achievements usually say:2% chance to riposte all attacks from the front, all other attacks have the same chance of being parried. Or am I thinking of the STA line warrior AAs?</p><p>Someone check those adornments for me?</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I have track, so they almost never get to shoot at my back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> Taear also has track, so I assumed he'd do the same thing.</p><p>How hard is it to run around with your target clear though? As soon as you take damage, hit your auto-attack and you'll auto-face the ranger. Problem solved. Just make sure you turn it off before something procs.</p><p>Those adornments and achievements usually say:2% chance to riposte all attacks from the front, all other attacks have the same chance of being parried. Or am I thinking of the STA line warrior AAs?</p><p>Someone check those adornments for me?</p></blockquote><p>I have my auto face turned off so i can train with out facing the mobs that hit me.  Yes running with a clear target is the best thing you can do.  </p><p>And that is an adorn fot wrist</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I have track, so they almost never get to shoot at my back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> Taear also has track, so I assumed he'd do the same thing.</p><p>How hard is it to run around with your target clear though? As soon as you take damage, hit your auto-attack and you'll auto-face the ranger. Problem solved. Just make sure you turn it off before something procs.</p><p>Those adornments and achievements usually say:2% chance to riposte all attacks from the front, all other attacks have the same chance of being parried. Or am I thinking of the STA line warrior AAs?</p><p>Someone check those adornments for me?</p></blockquote><p>I<b> have my auto face turned off </b>so i can train with out facing the mobs that hit me.  Yes running with a clear target is the best thing you can do.  </p><p>And that is an adorn fot wrist</p></blockquote>Where is that option at?

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>that is an adorn fot wrist</blockquote><p>I know where it goes, I've got 2 of em <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You can also get one on a slashing weapon FYI.</p><p>What I wanted to know was if it is circle avoidance, or frontal only?</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I have track, so they almost never get to shoot at my back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> Taear also has track, so I assumed he'd do the same thing.</p><p>How hard is it to run around with your target clear though? As soon as you take damage, hit your auto-attack and you'll auto-face the ranger. Problem solved. Just make sure you turn it off before something procs.</p><p>Those adornments and achievements usually say:2% chance to riposte all attacks from the front, all other attacks have the same chance of being parried. Or am I thinking of the STA line warrior AAs?</p><p>Someone check those adornments for me?</p></blockquote><p>I<b> have my auto face turned off </b>so i can train with out facing the mobs that hit me.  Yes running with a clear target is the best thing you can do.  </p><p>And that is an adorn fot wrist</p></blockquote>Where is that option at?</blockquote>Some where in options i dont remember where sorry.  A taunt though you will auto face no matter what

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>that is an adorn fot wrist</blockquote><p>I know where it goes, I've got 2 of em <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> You can also get one on a slashing weapon FYI.</p><p>What I wanted to know was if it is circle avoidance, or frontal only?</p></blockquote>Yes and no.  Repost and block are frontal.  Parry and deflection are 360

[Elephanton]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You said it right paikis block is from the front.  When was the last time a ranger hit your from the front?  </blockquote>If you don't watch your surroundings and let a ranger get behind you, you deserve to die anyway.

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You said it right paikis block is from the front.  When was the last time a ranger hit your from the front?  </blockquote>If you don't watch your surroundings and let a ranger get behind you, you deserve to die anyway.</blockquote><p>If I watch my surroundings? I have track and both totems up 24/7 and know where the rangers are. However, using a long-arm they can actually hit you while on the cliff at WW when you are on the platform. having 415 defence (with belt on) 410 without, I would last maybe 4 seconds, plenty of time to instantly fly away.</p><p>BTW: I do have a shield, but haven't checked the +to block modifier.</p><p>However, after being attacked several times (at least 10) by a ranger (and flying off at WW - yes a long-arm was used +arrows for extra range) I checked my logs and not once did I block anything. This 17% or whatever is a myth or my round shield isn't working (I will check and get back to you).</p><p>Every attack was a hit and almost all were crits (because of their buffs - i.e. Focus aim mainly) for the ~4 seconds I was there. I did not stick around for 10+ seconds as I would have been long dead... however..</p><p>I did and have noticed after the inital 10 seconds (in other fights) their hit % drops and I actually start seeing a few misses. This is strong evidence that it is <u><b>focus aim</b></u> causing their abnormally high hit <i><b>and </b></i>crit rate.</p><p>I'm not afraid to use the word OP in this case, because they can deal more damage than I ever could from ~35m away.</p><p>Besides, to answer someone else, a ranger sacrificing melee skillz in exchange for ranged skillz is like my assassin lowering his subjuration for increased slashing/piercing. Any ranger causght in melee range just uses point blank shot and they are back to ranged combat again.</p>

[Siphar]

<p>I would like to know how brawlers get along with their abilities against rangers? and other plate classes.</p><p>I know for a fact it is very hard for me to take down a paladin, sae with a tamplar, unless ofcourse I litterally catch them with their pants down. I wonder if the ranger can pop their 2-3 buffs and kill one in 2-10 seconds? If so where is the balance in them being able to kill anyone?? in 10 seconds.. more so the classes without track... and we all know how quick squishies go down <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I would never want to see the ranger class nerf'd to <i>nothing</i>. No more dps from any class needs reducing further IMO, all I would ask is that the developers check the rangers <i><b>short term buffs</b></i> and confirm they are where they are supposed to be.</p><p>Enuf said..</p>

[Tamar]

<u>IMO</u> Its not the Rangers' buffs.  Its the mechanics of bows.The problem is that 9 seconds worth of damage is being done up front.  That is a huge amount of time in PvP.  Add into that the fact that in all likely hood that huge chunk of damage is being critted.Would it be possible to reduce the delay on bows <u>only</u> if engaged in PvP?  They would still do the same damage over time, but it wouldn't be a critted 9 seconds worth up front.

[Siphar]

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>IMO</u> Its not the Rangers' buffs.  Its the mechanics of bows.The problem is that 9 seconds worth of damage is being done up front.  That is a huge amount of time in PvP.  Add into that the fact that in all likely hood that huge chunk of damage is being critted.Would it be possible to reduce the delay on bows <u>only</u> if engaged in PvP?  They would still do the same damage over time, but it wouldn't be a critted 9 seconds worth up front.</blockquote><p>The 9 second delay bows + increased haste = more attacks yes, but it is the "ranged skill (from buffs/aa/gear) <i><b>vs</b></i> opponents parry/block/defence/avoidance/agi" which dictates a hit (and how hard).. miss.. block.. parry.. and if it does hit.. the % crit (from buffs mainly -see below- and some gear/aa perhaps) goes into the formula.</p><p>Tell me i'm wrong?</p><p>Buffs like <b>focus aim</b> add a significant ~43% chance to crit (+AA/gear and other abilities) with the ~123 to the ranged skill boost also from <b>focus aim</b> (amongst other modifiers) = too many (imo) <b>hits and crits</b>.</p><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p><p>This is even assuming the range "starts" within melee range of the ranger <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Most as you will know attack on cliffs, roofs or even when floting down with a parachute.</p><p>My concerns lie in that 10 seconds with focus aim up. They have the potential to kill <b><i>anyone</i></b> (correct me if i'm wrong) in those 10 seconds as far as I am aware.</p><p>They can produce more DPS than my assassin can - them at range and me at melee - under almost any scenario, and their CA's re-pop significantly faster. The problem with their damage is the buffs which crit so much, which in essence artifically increase all their CA's for 10 seconds by +30%. Combine this with the long delay bows = high skill/haste/attack speed = lots of hits and buffs make almost evey hit a crit.</p><p>Ftw</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>No.</p>

[Ve]

Uhh no, a Ranger cannot kill a non-newb equipped plate class in under ten seconds. After the Rangers spiked damage is depleted and until his CA's reset, a Rangers auto attack dps is pretty low. Ohh and by the way, those Ranger CA's have a loooong reset timer.

[Elephanton]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p>No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p>

[Stuckx]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p>No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p></blockquote>By the time you get to the ranger,your either dead,almost dead,or out of power.And even win melee ranger..(Standing ontop of the SoB) I've still been hit with bow attacks.

[Siphar]

<p>You have seen plenty of videos as proof from the regular pvp rangers. i am sure I don't need to start naming names.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p>No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p></blockquote>Sprint puts you in combat though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tamar]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>IMO</u> Its not the Rangers' buffs.  Its the mechanics of bows.The problem is that 9 seconds worth of damage is being done up front.  That is a huge amount of time in PvP.  Add into that the fact that in all likely hood that huge chunk of damage is being critted.Would it be possible to reduce the delay on bows <u>only</u> if engaged in PvP?  They would still do the same damage over time, but it wouldn't be a critted 9 seconds worth up front.</blockquote><p>The 9 second delay bows + increased haste = more attacks yes, but it is the "ranged skill (from buffs/aa/gear) <i><b>vs</b></i> opponents parry/block/defence/avoidance/agi" which dictates a hit (and how hard).. miss.. block.. parry.. and if it does hit.. the % crit (from buffs mainly -see below- and some gear/aa perhaps) goes into the formula.</p><p>Tell me i'm wrong?</p><p>Buffs like <b>focus aim</b> add a significant ~43% chance to crit (+AA/gear and other abilities) with the ~123 to the ranged skill boost also from <b>focus aim</b> (amongst other modifiers) = too many (imo) <b>hits and crits</b>.</p><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote>Well to me the problem seems to be that they get to "preload" 7 - 9 seconds of weapon damage in a fight, with a near guaranteed hit and crit on the entire chunk of it.It seems that its not they fact they hit, its the issue with it being 9 seconds worth of damage at the start of a fight thats only going to last 3.

[Siphar]

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.</span>Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p></blockquote><p>The <i><b>regular</b></i> pvp rangers can kill any one in a few seconds (most in ~2 seconds after initial damage before which they can run and cast their buffs or hide on top of that cliff out of view from anyone but tracking scouts) if they are not on their top game. Some classes have more chance than others.</p><p>Even if you are to get to the ranger within those 10 seconds, as others have pointed out, you will be severely weakened and probably half if not almost dead.</p><p>IMHO, any <i><b>regular</b></i> pvp ranger <i><b>first initiating</b></i> the fight from 5-35+meters = no win situation for anyone but very few indeed. The point is to catch them with their pants down which is difficult in most cases considering they like all scouts ahve see-all track, evac and can only be <i><b>out run</b></i> by Furies with AA.</p><p>FTW</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p>No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p></blockquote>Sprint puts you in combat though. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>It doesnt, but anyway. Its impossible to get to a ranger who uses his snare timed along with fettering poison. Its just not possible.

[Siphar]

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><u>IMO</u> Its not the Rangers' buffs.  Its the mechanics of bows.The problem is that 9 seconds worth of damage is being done up front.  That is a huge amount of time in PvP.  Add into that the fact that in all likely hood that huge chunk of damage is being critted.Would it be possible to reduce the delay on bows <u>only</u> if engaged in PvP?  They would still do the same damage over time, but it wouldn't be a critted 9 seconds worth up front.</blockquote><p>The 9 second delay bows + increased haste = more attacks yes, but it is the "ranged skill (from buffs/aa/gear) <i><b>vs</b></i> opponents parry/block/defence/avoidance/agi" which dictates a hit (and how hard).. miss.. block.. parry.. and if it does hit.. the % crit (from buffs mainly -see below- and some gear/aa perhaps) goes into the formula.</p><p>Tell me i'm wrong?</p><p>Buffs like <b>focus aim</b> add a significant ~43% chance to crit (+AA/gear and other abilities) with the ~123 to the ranged skill boost also from <b>focus aim</b> (amongst other modifiers) = too many (imo) <b>hits and crits</b>.</p><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote>Well to me the problem seems to be that they get to "preload" 7 - 9 seconds of weapon damage in a fight, with a near guaranteed hit and crit on the entire chunk of it.It seems that its not they fact they hit, its the issue with it being 9 seconds worth of damage at the start of a fight thats only going to last 3.</blockquote><p>Exactly. rangers get focus aim (amongst others), an equal apparently to exacting of the assassin buff line. My M1 exacting modifys all my 'low' damage dots and CA's by 30%. Focus aim modifys almost every ranger CA atatck for 10 seconds by ~30% i.e. crit.</p><p>And... yes, it is 7-9 seconds condensed into 2-4 seconds.</p><p>I am really trying to keep this constructive.</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Blocking is UNCONTESTED. If your personae screen says you have a 17% chance to block, then you will block 17% of all attacks from infront of you. Doesn't matter if the ranger's ranged skill is 12 or 1200. It does not matter for blocking</blockquote>Well that's nice but I'm a brigand and I don't use a shield. And I have honestly never seen myself parry a ranger attack, or seen myself block it on my Berserker.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But I do like your line of thinking, instead of changing their buffs (which IMO add too many hit chances and crit chances), you have suggested reduce the 'overall ~condensed~ damage' by reducing the delay of the bow.</p></blockquote><p>Nope... at 70, and for most classes, if ranger does not kill the enemy in a few second, he dies.For instance, against brigand, I usually have 3-4 sec max.</p><p>Ranger's only bet is to kill fast, before enemy gets into melee.You can't remove ability to kill fast from rangers without having to fully rebuild this class.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree here. Rangers can maintain their dps so long ats they are at range. USing fetterng poisons, stuns, snares and well timed point blank shot, you would be surprised how easy it is to stay at range.</p></blockquote><p>No - there is no way to keep anyone at range for more than a few sec.Any class can get into melee with me by just staying OOC and sprinting to me - fettering poison and stuns would not help here.</p></blockquote>Sprint puts you in combat though. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>It doesnt, but anyway. Its impossible to get to a ranger who uses his snare timed along with fettering poison. Its just not possible.</blockquote>Did the last time I used it while being attacked actually. Not that I sprint a lot, and its probably been a week or two since I did it.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well that's nice but I'm a brigand and I don't use a shield.And I have honestly never seen myself parry a ranger attack, or seen myself block it on my Berserker.</blockquote><p>Maybe you should get a shield for PvP?</p><p>And wether you noticed yourself parrying/blocking or not, you surely did. It would be pretty rare though if you don't have a shield and the parry adornments.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>One word of advice which will allow you to DESTROY most Rangers, Sta line in the Predator tree. 12s of 100% parry, show them your back, make like you don't see them on track. Thus allowing them to waste all of their big attacks, then it is lights out. Of course they could also use it when you run in for the kill. But if you notice a lot of parries popping up just autoattack. </p><p>As for other classes vs the Ranger, it all depends really. The key I suppose is being aware and having totems up all the time. On the same token, many classes (if specced right) can tear apart a Ranger IF they get within range. However that has to go hand in hand with the whole awareness bit.</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One word of advice which will allow you to DESTROY most Rangers, Sta line in the Predator tree. 12s of 100% parry, show them your back, make like you don't see them on track. Thus allowing them to waste all of their big attacks, then it is lights out. Of course they could also use it when you run in for the kill. But if you notice a lot of parries popping up just autoattack. </p><p>As for other classes vs the Ranger, it all depends really. The key I suppose is being aware and having totems up all the time. On the same token, many classes (if specced right) can tear apart a Ranger IF they get within range. However that has to go hand in hand with the whole awareness bit.</p></blockquote><p>Yeh I have this line and the EoF AA which allows me to use defensive stance with no penalty (even modifys it) which is how with the aid of adornments I can get my defence to ~410-415 and parry to ~431. I also use a shield (adds ~12% chance to block) (with haste on it). The STA line also adds like 1,100 hp and the end line ability you mentioned which parrys.</p><p>Any smart ranger like you mentioned will realise if their enemy is not dead in 3 seconds, that they must be using a parry ability and will focus purely on snaring and keeping you at a distance. Hover boots, stun, fettering posions and point blank shot give the ranger an easy time (most of the time).</p><p>I kill plenty of rangers, that is not the point. The point is that they can kill me or anyone else so <b>much more easily.. </b>i.e. their potential is too great - end game or not, IMHO it is unbalanced for reasons mentioned earlier.</p><p><b>Example:</b> Me fighting an relatively equally geared paladin/brawler = almost no brainer. I will surely lose 95% of the time if my foe is an experienced PvP'er like myself. This is mainly because I ultimatley have to be within melee range to do any damage, making myself vulneroble to attack. The rangers have a luxury which allows them to deal the same if not more damage at minimum risk to themselves.</p>