Am i missing something here?

[fugutait]

    I come from sullon zek, and shattered hand...where pvp was pvp. Am i correct and saying me a new player lowly level 10 question can get destroyed by a lvl 14 super twink YET my RL friend a lvl 70 can only sit there and watch? That makes absolutely no sense at all.  Sony i ask you to remove the stupid level restrictions, I think that alone will take care of the twink "problem" As well as give some newbies a source of security. A higher player of the same faction.     Whats the point of having factions if they cant even help each other out?

[skunk188]

you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players

[ladyvengeance]

Yep, that's exactly what would happen. Removing level restrictions is not a good idea at all. Remember all the problems we had with out of combat healers? 70s would tag along with 10s and heal them whenever they got into a fight. You think twinking is a problem? It's nothing compared to the crap noobs would have to deal with if level restrictions were gone. Imagine DLW full of lvl 70s killing everything in their path for faction.

[fugutait]

<cite>skunk188 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players</blockquote>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW. I can say that having no level restriction tends to balance its self out. One you have a legion of players that will defend you if you are getting griefed. Two, its gives you the ability to defend fellow lowbies when you are high levels. If 70s tagged along with 10s...Well get another 70 and KILL him...This is the first time i have ever been forced to play with level restrictions on a pvp server, and to add to that they allow level locking heck whats the point of leveling up past 14 if you have already seen end game content.

[Tae]

<cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW. I can say that having no level restriction tends to balance its self out.</blockquote>When the world is big and travel is slow, it does. The EQ2 world is small and travel is fast. People will be gone before any sort of retaliation could possibly arrive, and they can stick around the three level 10-20 zones really easily, killing everyone they meet. FFA PvP just would not work in this game.

[fugutait]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW. I can say that having no level restriction tends to balance its self out.</blockquote>When the world is big and travel is slow, it does. The EQ2 world is small and travel is fast. People will be gone before any sort of retaliation could possibly arrive, and they can stick around the three level 10-20 zones really easily, killing everyone they meet.FFA PvP just would not work in this game.</blockquote>You actually may have a point, but let me ask you this...Do you think the 70s would fortify the zones of their faction. I remember one of my most memorable moments in eq1 was treking across the world me level 7 (just dinged into pvp) and a lvl 60 named Faelyn taking me to the "neut" strong hold.  Since there was no level restriction on Sullon players decided what faction controlled what city and what strong hold. My point is there may not be any need for retailiation because there will always be high level players there. Also WOW game world is about the size of eq2 game world and other than class balance pre battlegrounds the pvp there was splendid.

[skunk188]

<cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>skunk188 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players</blockquote>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW. I can say that having no level restriction tends to balance its self out. One you have a legion of players that will defend you if you are getting griefed. Two, its gives you the ability to defend fellow lowbies when you are high levels. If 70s tagged along with 10s...Well get another 70 and KILL him...This is the first time i have ever been forced to play with level restrictions on a pvp server, and to add to that they allow level locking heck whats the point of leveling up past 14 if you have already seen end game content.</blockquote>before it was moved high level healers did tag along with low level characters and it gave them a god mode to defeat other players.  none of the heroism you speak of came about because of that scenario.

[Bozidar]

<p>Go quest in the bonemire, and your buddy can protect you.</p><p>problem solved..</p>

[DravynX]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Go quest in the bonemire, and your buddy can protect you.</p><p>problem solved..</p></blockquote>You're so hardcore boz.

[Killque]

<p>I refer you to a post I made previously</p><p> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=385863" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=385863</a></p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.

[Dracot]

<cite>skunk188 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players</blockquote>T7 would surely fill up with more pvp.

[Dracot]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?  Not every lvl 10 in WoW has a lvl 70 friend when theystart, but they are able to deal with it long enough to gain lvl and learn ther game.  Problem lies in this lvl locking system in eq2.  The one simply most pathetic feature in a pvp you can think of.  Fine you wanna lvl lock, then thats your risk, but no lvl 10 is going to protect themselves vs a lvl 14 in fabled, which is what people here use to flex their egos.  God forbid like i said once b4 sony gave us a week of FFA on pvp servers.  You lvl locked gankers would simply get a taste of what you do to other people and maybe see the light. 

[Norrsken]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?  Not every lvl 10 in WoW has a lvl 70 friend when theystart, but they are able to deal with it long enough to gain lvl and learn ther game.  Problem lies in this lvl locking system in eq2.  The one simply most pathetic feature in a pvp you can think of.  Fine you wanna lvl lock, then thats your risk, but no lvl 10 is going to protect themselves vs a lvl 14 in fabled, which is what people here use to flex their egos.  God forbid like i said once b4 sony gave us a week of FFA on pvp servers.  You lvl locked gankers would simply get a taste of what you do to other people and maybe see the light. </blockquote>Both sides have twink locks.Shouldnt be too different for the twinks to safeguard zones, should it? But do we get that? No.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>skunk188 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players</blockquote>T7 would surely fill up with more pvp.</blockquote>In a manner of speaking.  Antonica would fill up with T7 <u>vs</u> everythingbelowT7 combat in a T2 zone, as would CL.

[Killque]

<p>Here is an idea:</p><p>Anytime you see someone outside of your level range, that is in attackable range, go ahead and attack them. Doesnt matter if they are 30 or 70 just attack everyone in that range...</p><p>Come back here after a few days and let us know how much fun your having...</p>

[Bayler_x]

Every time I hear about PVP in WoW, the story is always this:    <i>"I was farming with my level 25 priest and some level 40 rogue ganked me.  So I logged in my level 70 hunter and killed him over and over for like an hour."</i>I'll pass on that, thanks.

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote>Except your rebuttle as to why FFA wouldn't work completely explained why it WOULD work. Because if all of the lvl 14's got off their 14's to get on their 70's then so would the opposite faction. In which t7 pvp would boom, making the focus on low tier pvp less relevent. Sure there would be 70's still killing lowbies, but they know that instead of another group of 14's looking for pvp, they now have a group of 70's on their [Removed for Content] in the same zones, knowing [Removed for Content] good and well that a 70 in treasured while at a small disadvantage still has a chance of handing a 70 in fabled their [Removed for Content]. And its much easier to have full ad3 / m1's at 70 than it is for someone not too familiar with the lower end game.

[fugutait]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Go quest in the bonemire, and your buddy can protect you.</p><p>problem solved..</p></blockquote>?

[fugutait]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote>That goes back to my argument of Goods defending Goods because they are on the same faction. At the very least if an evil comes to a good contested zone like qeynos, they should be flagged for combat with no level restriction.

[fugutait]

<blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?  Not every lvl 10 in WoW has a lvl 70 friend when theystart, but they are able to deal with it long enough to gain lvl and learn ther game.  Problem lies in this lvl locking system in eq2.  The one simply most pathetic feature in a pvp you can think of.  Fine you wanna lvl lock, then thats your risk, but no lvl 10 is going to protect themselves vs a lvl 14 in fabled, which is what people here use to flex their egos.  God forbid like i said once b4 sony gave us a week of FFA on pvp servers.  You lvl locked gankers would simply get a taste of what you do to other people and maybe see the light. </blockquote>/agreed  It kinda takes he immesrion out of a game where two groups are suppsoed to be at war yet i CANT even attack the opposing faction. Honesty eq2's version of pvp is the farthest thing from hardcore..In fact all its is is PVE with auto  real world battlegrounds, where they match people up by level. Whats funny is in all the PVP based mmo's that i have played, the servers that had no level restriction were the most popular and i'm not even going to mention wow.

[fugutait]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I refer you to a post I made previously</p><p> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=385863" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=385863</a></p></blockquote>My post/argument here is not about the twinks...its about not being able to excercise real pvp on a pvp server. I ran into this player today that had to have 4 seperate toons at different level ranges just to allow his new player to level. To me thats ridiculous. I should be able to log in a 70 and defend Antonica for the bad guys, then the bad guys will call their 70s and it will be a full scale pvp fight. Thats fun real world pvp

[fugutait]

<blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote>Both sides have twink locks.Shouldnt be too different for the twinks to safeguard zones, should it? But do we get that? No.</blockquote>I must say...That is a good point, but still i feel the level restrictions take away some of the "warlike" immersion.

[fugutait]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>skunk188 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you do realize if that happened you would be getting killed by lvl70 players instead of those lvl 14 players</blockquote>T7 would surely fill up with more pvp.</blockquote>In a manner of speaking.  Antonica would fill up with T7 <u>vs</u> everythingbelowT7 combat in a T2 zone, as would CL.</blockquote>What need would t7's have to kill t2's - t6's? They may grief for a bit until other t7s come to engage them. I mean like the last poster said how come it has worked so well in other mmos including WOW which has the largest subcriber base and EQ1 sullon zek (which some argue set the template for WoW's pvp system. It worked in vanguard I think the list can go on.

[fugutait]

<cite>Akilie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Every time I hear about PVP in WoW, the story is always this:    <i>"I was farming with my level 25 priest and some level 40 rogue ganked me.  So I logged in my level 70 hunter and killed him over and over for like an hour."</i>I'll pass on that, thanks.</blockquote>what about stories of lvl 40s came to crossroads and started ganking, until the horde logged in their 40s and what ensued was a realtime pvp war between two groups of equal levels. Or what about raids on towns cause the other faction to raise arms against the attackers

[fugutait]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here is an idea:</p><p>Anytime you see someone outside of your level range, that is in attackable range, go ahead and attack them. Doesnt matter if they are 30 or 70 just attack everyone in that range...</p><p>Come back here after a few days and let us know how much fun your having...</p></blockquote>Been there done that, like i said I played on sullon since kunark, played on wow and played on vangard servers that didnt have the "blue" level restriction that protects people that would cry about getting ganked a few times by a higher level. Mt biggiest gripe like i said is it eliminates the immersion.  Let me ask the lockers this; if they remove the level restrictions how would you all feel? would you quit? would you feel like your twinking was in vain because you can get killed by any level? Or would you still enjoy pvp against people of similar level?

[fugutait]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here is an idea:</p><p>Anytime you see someone outside of your level range, that is in attackable range, go ahead and attack them. Doesnt matter if they are 30 or 70 just attack everyone in that range...</p><p>Come back here after a few days and let us know how much fun your having...</p></blockquote>Been there done that, like i said I played on sullon since kunark, played on wow and played on vangard servers that didnt have the "blue" level restriction that protects people that would cry about getting ganked a few times by a higher level. Mt biggiest gripe like i said is it eliminates the immersion.  Let me ask the lockers this; if they remove the level restrictions how would you all feel? would you quit? would you feel like your twinking was in vain because you can get killed by any level? Or would you still enjoy pvp against people of similar level?

[fugutait]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote>Except your rebuttle as to why FFA wouldn't work completely explained why it WOULD work. Because if all of the lvl 14's got off their 14's to get on their 70's then so would the opposite faction. In which t7 pvp would boom, making the focus on low tier pvp less relevent. Sure there would be 70's still killing lowbies, but they know that instead of another group of 14's looking for pvp, they now have a group of 70's on their [I cannot control my vocabulary] in the same zones, knowing [I cannot control my vocabulary] good and well that a 70 in treasured while at a small disadvantage still has a chance of handing a 70 in fabled their [I cannot control my vocabulary]. And its much easier to have full ad3 / m1's at 70 than it is for someone not too familiar with the lower end game.</blockquote>Thats the point i was trying to make, but couldnt say it as well...And let me add it would also open up a whole new world of pvp faction vs faction immersion

[Siphar]

<p>To stop so much higher level griefing, keep the level limits purely for credit i.e. money, chests, faction and infamy. Apart from that make the game into FFA apart from in the cities, where it would be as it is now.</p><p>My 2 cp</p>

[graticus]

was also on SZ, and FFA pvp is where a player learns how to pvp. If getting [Removed for Content] by toons 40 levels higher than you doesn't teach you something, like where to hunt safely, to always travel in groups to certain locations, not to mention bonds the factions closer together and promotes interaction between guilds/players, then i don't know what will. and btw...they really need to lift the language barrier between FP and Q

[Rezwal]

I agree with dracot<span class="postbody">L</span><span class="postbody">evel restrictions is pretty much an unrealistic baby-mode. It makes no sense at all.If you view it through the roleplaying aspect then this is basicly 2 worlds fighting against each other. Good vs. Evil.That would mean that if a highly respected experienced paladin meets a little unknown apprentice necromancer then its tough luck! - that little fella has to die.. because he is EVIL.It may sound harsh but its just the way it is.Now if we take a look at the gameplay. I cant see why it would be so bad to remove the l</span><span class="postbody">evel restrictions. First of all, if a player doesnt get any benefits from killing a grey (no loot or status). Then we will not see many high lvls in commonlands killing low lvl evil players. And yes i believe if the level restrictions was removed then there would be a lot of high lvl players ganking low level players in starter zones "THE FIRST FEW WEEKS" but then it will get boring pretty fast and they will start focusing on the players among their own lvl. It will make a good balance in the end.Besides that, Dracot has a point - It works [Removed for Content] well in any other MMORPGs. So i cant se why it shouldnt work in EQ2?Just the other day i was in commonlands teaching my low level rl friend about harvesting materials. Then suddenly this twinked player jumps him and woops his [Removed for Content]. And afterwards he just danses infront of me and walks away. Come on! this isnt realistic in any way. If EQ2 has been a real roleplaying game then i would have cleaved that twinked fella in 2 and ra.ped his dog before he was able to touch my friend.This doesnt make any sense at all.. but who am i fooling? - EQ2 is not going to change.- Rezwal </span>

[Mighty Melvor]

<p>Did people forget the level restrictions we had back-in-the-day?  Remember when the newbie zones were 8 and there was a progression up to T6 which became unlimited?  There was much more action, much more retaliation, MUCH MORE PvP.</p><p>The level restrictions have choked PvP IMO.  Once SOE implemented the level range changes, ALL the PvP servers suffered.  And how did the remaining PvP populace cope?  T2!  It cannot be denied!!!</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?</blockquote>It doesn't work. I've played just about every MMO that offers PvP when I retired from UO (also a ruined FFA system). Don't put lipstick on a pig. FFA PvP servers make DLW look like cub scout troop meeting. Low level players spend more time looking for a rez than they do anything else.Also, the maturity level on FFA PvP servers reflects the nature of those who enjoy such anarchy. While I'm sure there are a handful of exceptions.. the majority of the population on such servers consists of peeps bored of their game consoles who run around and "click and kill" anything that moves.Vanguard is not a good example. Its population is nearly extinct. WoW is a horrible comparison as its turn over rate is extremely high and only holds its place as far as numbers go due to the number of new players who replace those burnt out. All the other games out there offer Faction and Level Restricted PvP or have Concentual PvP toggles built in to their game mechanics.FFA PvP "works" in some games because there is a large audience out there looking for more challenging targets than the AI offered in Doom.Don't confuse popularity with success.

[Raznor2]

<cite>Szforlife@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>was also on SZ, and FFA pvp is where a player learns how to pvp. If getting [I cannot control my vocabulary] by toons 40 levels higher than you doesn't teach you something, like where to hunt safely, to always travel in groups to certain locations, not to mention bonds the factions closer together and promotes interaction between guilds/players, then i don't know what will.and btw...they really need to lift the language barrier between FP and Q </p><p><span style="color: #0033ff;">Ugg, no on the language barrier being lifted.  Some of these knuckleheads are annoying enough with their pet messages and emotes.  Let alone getting spammed obscenities to death by some Q with a chip on his shoulder because I beat him in a fight.  Heck I turned off most of the lower level channels because I can't stand the verbal garbage from my faction let alone putting up with the other side.  Even then you still have the [Removed for Content] with their opposing faction alts.  Like the other night in DLW a trio of twinked out 20's were ganking the lower level freeps.  So we banded together and killed them again and again as they revive zerged us and they had the audacity to log over to our faction and [I cannot control my vocabulary] about us "griefing' despite the fact that they could have turned around and walked right out of the zone from their revive point.  Morons.  You'll get that sort of BS ten fold without the language barrier.   </span></p>Raithan, 70 bruiser Venekor</blockquote>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Raznor269 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><p>and btw...they really need to lift the language barrier between FP and Q </p><p><span style="color: #0033ff;">Ugg, no on the language barrier being lifted.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote>Agreed! I get corpse humped enough.. I really don't need the sound effects to accompany it thank you very much. <img src="http://sloan.fcpages.com/smilies/werd.gif" alt="" border="0" />

[Kneemin]

I don't really agree that high lvls should be able to pwn anyone but I do know something that would add some of what your wanting.  Make ALL NPCs<b> killable </b>like EQ1.  It would be soo fun to go around [Removed for Content] the quest NPCs killing off bankers and such in towns.. make enemies attackable in town too... its kinda BS that I can't go into a TS instance and gank some1 and take thier money!  Every aspect of this server should have risk....... But open pvp is just a little to harsh.. .besides opening towns would make lots of ppl flagged (plenty of unrestricted there).. right now there is absolutely 0 point in raiding Qeynos or FP... everyone is immune and you can't kill anything to make them made at you enuf to atk and start a fight

[Evenstar]

<p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p></blockquote><img src="http://sloan.fcpages.com/smilies/goodpost.gif" alt="" border="0" />Now <b>that </b>is something I could live with. The coding is already there for Exiles. Make them attackable by anyone for 30 mins after hitting the "Lock Combat Experience" toggle. That is the most intuitive idea I've seen in this thread so far.

[dr4gonUK]

<p>Sorry, but i doubt FFA pvp is the salvation of eq2 pvp. That sure as hell is how certain parties are trying to make it read.</p><p>The level ranges are there to protect players yes. Ant/CL used to be 8 levels then got nerfed to 4 levels thanks to all the carebears crying on this forum. SinkingSands used to be unlimited pvp back in the day too ( now 10 lvl range ). </p><p>Those of us who <i>have</i> played eq2pvp since day1 have played through all the changes, for better or worse, and as far as i'm concerned pvp is carebear until you hit unlimited range pvp zones, which for all intents and purposes is RvR FFA pvp. </p><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>  </p>

[Evenstar]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p></blockquote><img src="http://sloan.fcpages.com/smilies/goodpost.gif" border="0" alt="" width="41" height="46" />Now <b>that </b>is something I could live with. The coding is already there for Exiles. Make them attackable by anyone for 30 mins after hitting the "Lock Combat Experience" toggle. That is the most intuitive idea I've seen in this thread so far. </blockquote><p>Actually, I meant that when you lock experience, you should be attackable by anyone of the opposing faction and if you want to ever unlock experience, you'll need to wait at least 30 minutes or so before doing it.</p><p>It could also work without the timer, since if you unlock to PvP you'll end up getting a nice bit of experience anyway.</p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p></blockquote><img src="http://sloan.fcpages.com/smilies/goodpost.gif" border="0" alt="" width="41" height="46" />Now <b>that </b>is something I could live with. The coding is already there for Exiles. Make them attackable by anyone for 30 mins after hitting the "Lock Combat Experience" toggle. That is the most intuitive idea I've seen in this thread so far. </blockquote><p>Oh sure.</p><p>So my lvl 54 perma-locked quester should be KoS to everyone 24/7....</p><p>NO!!!</p>

[Rezwal]

<cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Where the hell did this attack come from? seriously - no need for that kind of assults.Hands down, im no great player and i dont have any toons near T7 - hell! i have a life outside this game. I still have alot to learn in this game but besides that im an ol' MMORPG player.I was just reading this post and threw my 2 cents in it, I can be wrong - but its still my point of view.And now such a little whimp stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game....seriously - this only shows us that spyderbite is right in some degree. PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem.- Rezwal

[fugutait]

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To stop so much higher level griefing, keep the level limits purely for credit i.e. money, chests, faction and infamy. Apart from that make the game into FFA apart from in the cities, where it would be as it is now.</p><p>My 2 cp</p></blockquote>I agree and its a very good idea

[fugutait]

<p>I agree whole heartedly</p>

[fugutait]

<cite>Rezwal wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with dracot<span class="postbody">L</span><span class="postbody">evel restrictions is pretty much an unrealistic baby-mode. It makes no sense at all.If you view it through the roleplaying aspect then this is basicly 2 worlds fighting against each other. Good vs. Evil.That would mean that if a highly respected experienced paladin meets a little unknown apprentice necromancer then its tough luck! - that little fella has to die.. because he is EVIL.It may sound harsh but its just the way it is.Now if we take a look at the gameplay. I cant see why it would be so bad to remove the l</span><span class="postbody">evel restrictions. First of all, if a player doesnt get any benefits from killing a grey (no loot or status). Then we will not see many high lvls in commonlands killing low lvl evil players. And yes i believe if the level restrictions was removed then there would be a lot of high lvl players ganking low level players in starter zones "THE FIRST FEW WEEKS" but then it will get boring pretty fast and they will start focusing on the players among their own lvl. It will make a good balance in the end.Besides that, Dracot has a point - It works [I cannot control my vocabulary] well in any other MMORPGs. So i cant se why it shouldnt work in EQ2?Just the other day i was in commonlands teaching my low level rl friend about harvesting materials. Then suddenly this twinked player jumps him and woops his [I cannot control my vocabulary]. And afterwards he just danses infront of me and walks away. Come on! this isnt realistic in any way. If EQ2 has been a real roleplaying game then i would have cleaved that twinked fella in 2 and ra.ped his dog before he was able to touch my friend.This doesnt make any sense at all.. but who am i fooling? - EQ2 is not going to change.- Rezwal </span></blockquote>I think if Devs read more posts like this Hopefully they will change it. I agree with everything you said and its precisely what i was saying. Anyone who is opposed to the removal of level restrictions honestly hasnt really pvp'ed or is afraid of a "true" pvp server. They are content on staying in their level bracket not experiencing real pvp. I could have a twink toon as well in 1 or two days if i want...Go buy 5k gold for about 80 bucks go to the exchange and twink my toon out...then lock him and "pvp" level 10s with my twink level 14 and not have to work about level 20s helping him out. Now that i think about it...<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[fugutait]

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Did people forget the level restrictions we had back-in-the-day?  Remember when the newbie zones were 8 and there was a progression up to T6 which became unlimited?  There was much more action, much more retaliation, MUCH MORE PvP.</p><p>The level restrictions have choked PvP IMO.  Once SOE implemented the level range changes, ALL the PvP servers suffered.  And how did the remaining PvP populace cope?  T2!  It cannot be denied!!!</p></blockquote>/agreed and i/m glad more people are seeing what i am saying, honestly i think twinks dont want to lose their security blanket of complete uberness at the expense of game lore and immersion

[fugutait]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?</blockquote><p>"It doesn't work. I've played just about every MMO that offers PvP when I retired from UO (also a ruined FFA system). Don't put lipstick on a pig. FFA PvP servers make DLW look like cub scout troop meeting. Low level players spend more time looking for a rez than they do anything else."</p><p> So, have I and arnt low level players spending more time looking for rezzes now...prob more so because the low levels have no protection</p><p>"Also, the maturity level on FFA PvP servers reflects the nature of those who enjoy such anarchy. While I'm sure there are a handful of exceptions.. the majority of the population on such servers consists of peeps bored of their game consoles who run around and "click and kill" anything that moves."</p><p> I disagree, maybe initially that will be the case but once the awe of ganking wears off it happens much less...It brings so much more to a game when you come across a level 70 and wonder if he is going to kill you, and they just wave and keep running.</p><p>"Vanguard is not a good example. Its population is nearly extinct. WoW is a horrible comparison as its turn over rate is extremely high and only holds its place as far as numbers go due to the number of new players who replace those burnt out. All the other games out there offer Faction and Level Restricted PvP or have Concentual PvP toggles built in to their game mechanics."</p><p> Vangard started off good, until Sony started messing with it, people left like me. If WoW's turn over rate is so high how are they contstantly keeping 7 millions subs and now have toyota commercials and such.  I was an eq1 fan boy, of course i played on sullon...but as it stands now WoW should be the template of success period. I would like to see what Warhammers PVP system will be.</p><p>"FFA PvP "works" in some games because there is a large audience out there looking for more challenging targets than the AI offered in Doom.Don't confuse popularity with success."</p><p>Also we are getting the term FFA confused FFA is where anyone can kill anyone and there is NO faction, like eq1 server rallos zek</p></blockquote>

[fugutait]

<cite>Kneemin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't really agree that high lvls should be able to pwn anyone but I do know something that would add some of what your wanting.  Make ALL NPCs<b> killable </b>like EQ1.  It would be soo fun to go around [Removed for Content] the quest NPCs killing off bankers and such in towns.. make enemies attackable in town too... its kinda BS that I can't go into a TS instance and gank some1 and take thier money!  Every aspect of this server should have risk....... But open pvp is just a little to harsh.. .besides opening towns would make lots of ppl flagged (plenty of unrestricted there).. right now there is absolutely 0 point in raiding Qeynos or FP... everyone is immune and you can't kill anything to make them made at you enuf to atk and start a fight</blockquote>Have we all forgotten what pvp is since the ending of eq1...How would it be anymore harsher than it is now? with level locked twinks...i know for a fact that higher levels would protect the lowbies. Today while questing in the caves with a alt, there were a couple of level locked twinks ganking everyone. three people that i was grouped with said they wished they could log in their 70s and just "park" them in the caves to offer protection. Thats how it should be. Honestly these level restrictions are almost a deal breaker for me, but like i said how hard is it to buy some gold and twink a toon up...ist almost like we are forced to do such just to be able to enjoy the game.

[fugutait]

<cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p></blockquote>BEST idea i have read,...but suggestion, their needs to be a timer on the amount of time they can lock and unlock their level...like lets say if you lock it at 12 you have to stay locked for 2 days or so.

[fugutait]

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Evenstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to let level 70s attack someone lower, let them attack people who lock their level..and put a say, 30 minute limit on being able to switch between locking and not locking. Could work with a little tweaking.</p></blockquote><img src="http://sloan.fcpages.com/smilies/goodpost.gif" border="0" alt="" width="41" height="46" />Now <b>that </b>is something I could live with. The coding is already there for Exiles. Make them attackable by anyone for 30 mins after hitting the "Lock Combat Experience" toggle. That is the most intuitive idea I've seen in this thread so far. </blockquote><p>Oh sure.</p><p>So my lvl 54 perma-locked quester should be KoS to everyone 24/7....</p><p>NO!!!</p><p>Just Attackable by the opposing faction (you say KOS, you are assuming they will kill you) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Evertime i get ganked by a twink while a lvl ++ sits their and cant do anything, the closer i am to going to a gold selling site and twinking up my toon just so i can level on a fascimille pvp server</p></blockquote>

[dr4gonUK]

<cite>Rezwal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Where the hell did this attack come from? seriously - no need for that kind of assults.Hands down, im no great player and i dont have any toons near T7 - hell! i have a life outside this game. I still have alot to learn in this game but besides that im an ol' MMORPG player.I was just reading this post and threw my 2 cents in it, I can be wrong - but its still my point of view.And now such a little whimp stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game....seriously - this only shows us that spyderbite is right in some degree. PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem.- Rezwal</blockquote><p>I wouldnt call it an attack. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. You used a situation as an example of the failings in eq2pvp as you see it yes? I merely pointed out that had you been grouped with your " rl friend " you would have been able to attack whoever it was attacking your friend.</p><p>Now please expalin to me how an error on your part constitutes a failing in eq2 pvp? Moreso, how my one sentence was provocative enough to insult me indirectly or otherwise with a full paragraph?</p><p>" I have a life outside this game "</p><p>" And now such a <b>little wimp</b> stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game "</p><p>" PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem "</p><p>Maybe next time, before you <i>throw</i> in your " 2c ", prepare yourself for other people to voice their own opinions, even if they are critical. Thats what the forums are for. Get your neck back in. </p><p>Dont make assumptions. I didnt make any about you.</p><p>Peace.</p>

[fugutait]

<cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rezwal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Where the hell did this attack come from? seriously - no need for that kind of assults.Hands down, im no great player and i dont have any toons near T7 - hell! i have a life outside this game. I still have alot to learn in this game but besides that im an ol' MMORPG player.I was just reading this post and threw my 2 cents in it, I can be wrong - but its still my point of view.And now such a little whimp stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game....seriously - this only shows us that spyderbite is right in some degree. PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem.- Rezwal</blockquote><p>I wouldnt call it an attack. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. You used a situation as an example of the failings in eq2pvp as you see it yes? I merely pointed out that had you been grouped with your " rl friend " you would have been able to attack whoever it was attacking your friend.</p><p>Now please expalin to me how an error on your part constitutes a failing in eq2 pvp? Moreso, how my one sentence was provocative enough to insult me indirectly or otherwise with a full paragraph?</p><p>" I have a life outside this game "</p><p>" And now such a <b>little wimp</b> stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game "</p><p>" PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem "</p><p>Maybe next time, before you <i>throw</i> in your " 2c ", prepare yourself for other people to voice their own opinions, even if they are critical. Thats what the forums are for. Get your neck back in. </p><p>Dont make assumptions. I didnt make any about you.</p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote>Why are you up at this hour? Anyway if a high level is "grouped" are they actually able to attack the aggressor no matter what level they are? Also do they suck up xp so the lowbie doesnt get any?...So far i think the best suggestion/compramise is flagging all lockers for any level combat by the opposing faction

[Wildfury77]

<p>COOL....so that means that if i produce full sets of MC+adorns with masters 1/AdeptIII to 70 for my toon (very easy to do if u BOTHER---->(thats the bit u anti-lockers hate!) with 3 crafters). I can KILL everybody easily on the way to 70!!! <b>as long as i stay unlocked and run around with my lvl 70 friend I can OWN all lockers! /cool</b></p><p>The lockers (read ---- challenging opponent) will have been shafted by the losers!! and MC will rule supreme!!</p><p><u><b>Whatever you do to try and avoid effort, others WILL overcome</b></u>. I refuse to run around in island gear with no jewelry @ lvl30 ----> <b><i><u>I will GEAR UP and own your lazy-face</u></i></b> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Its just like in RL ----> Put some effort in! Stop expecting everything on a plate and for crying out loud stop trying to alienate 100s of regular gamers ---- IDIOTS. No doubt the usual RAID equipped lvl 70s will attack this accurate reply, talking their nonsense about us *ganking*. As i said im a previous post LOOK in a Freckin mirror ----> RAID guild 70s = the MASTER gankers <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Bottom line ---> Gearing up or locking a toon isn't a crime, and most still lvl up ---> just a lot more slowly and enjoy active group vs group everynight. They are also very killable, the only unkillable toons i've seen are the LvL 70 masters/overseers in full RAID fabled that hang around in a minimum of 6 man group.......i'm told that as i lvl into tier 5 i may also find unkillable toons in lvl 43 fabled ---> any money i own their faces <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[fugutait]

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>COOL....so that means that if i produce full sets of MC+adorns with masters 1/AdeptIII to 70 for my toon (very easy to do if u BOTHER---->(thats the bit u anti-lockers hate!) with 3 crafters). I can KILL everybody easily on the way to 70!!! <b>as long as i stay unlocked and run around with my lvl 70 friend I can OWN all lockers! /cool</b></p><p>The lockers (read ---- challenging opponent) will have been shafted by the losers!! and MC will rule supreme!!</p><p><u><b>Whatever you do to try and avoid effort, others WILL overcome</b></u>. I refuse to run around in island gear with no jewelry @ lvl30 ----> <b><i><u>I will GEAR UP and own your lazy-face</u></i></b> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Its just like in RL ----> Put some effort in! Stop expecting everything on a plate and for crying out loud stop trying to alienate 100s of regular gamers ---- IDIOTS. No doubt the usual RAID equipped lvl 70s will attack this accurate reply, talking their nonsense about us *ganking*. As i said im a previous post LOOK in a Freckin mirror ----> RAID guild 70s = the MASTER gankers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Bottom line ---> Gearing up or locking a toon isn't a crime, and most still lvl up ---> just a lot more slowly and enjoy active group vs group everynight. They are also very killable, the only unkillable toons i've seen are the LvL 70 masters/overseers in full RAID fabled that hang around in a minimum of 6 man group.......i'm told that as i lvl into tier 5 i may also find unkillable toons in lvl 43 fabled ---> any money i own their faces <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>even though i dont know half of what you said but im still all for removing the restrictions completely

[dr4gonUK]

<cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Why are you up at this hour? Anyway if a high level is "grouped" are they actually able to attack the aggressor no matter what level they are? Also do they suck up xp so the lowbie doesnt get any?...So far i think the best suggestion/compramise is flagging all lockers for any level combat by the opposing faction</blockquote><p>I'm in the UK, its 10am here as i write this.</p><p>If a 70 groups with a 20, its a double edge sword. In a 4 lvl range zone( ant/cl ) the 20 cannot attack targets in its lvl range and can be attacked by players in the level range of the 70. But while grouped with the 70, anybody that attacks the 20 will immediately become aggro to the 70. I admit its not the greatest system, but its more than possible to look after your lowby friends.</p><p>The quest mechanics prevent 70s levling up lvl 10s, but aa is totally different. Any conning target that gives aa will reward aa as long as the player is 10< regardless of lvl difference. </p>

[Rezwal]

<cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rezwal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Where the hell did this attack come from? seriously - no need for that kind of assults.Hands down, im no great player and i dont have any toons near T7 - hell! i have a life outside this game. I still have alot to learn in this game but besides that im an ol' MMORPG player.I was just reading this post and threw my 2 cents in it, I can be wrong - but its still my point of view.And now such a little whimp stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game....seriously - this only shows us that spyderbite is right in some degree. PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem.- Rezwal</blockquote><p>I wouldnt call it an attack. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. You used a situation as an example of the failings in eq2pvp as you see it yes? I merely pointed out that had you been grouped with your " rl friend " you would have been able to attack whoever it was attacking your friend.</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">I think you misunderstod my paragraph. My anger was pointed agaisnt this quote "In fact you suck for letting it happen" - you will not call this a personal attack? hmm. Besides that i respect this quote "@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked" you have pointed out a flaw from my side and thats quite fair. Even though, i think its a weird rule from EQ2 that just points out what kind of nonsense this pvp is. But if it works it works.</span></p><p>Now please expalin to me how an error on your part constitutes a failing in eq2 pvp? Moreso, how my one sentence was provocative enough to insult me indirectly or otherwise with a full paragraph?</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Again - It is not my error that makes me angry, its your assult.</span></p><p>" I have a life outside this game "</p><p>" And now such a <b>little wimp</b> stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game "</p><p>" PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem "</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">True. You have just pointed out my 3 attacks. But it was not unfounded.</span></p><p>Maybe next time, before you <i>throw</i> in your " 2c ", prepare yourself for other people to voice their own opinions, even if they are critical. Thats what the forums are for. Get your neck back in. </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Im quite prepared for other peoples opinions, futhermore i respect them. Heck, Spyderbite came with a reasonable post below mine. But what my point is: Its an offical forum, have some manners and have good tone against other people. There is no need to make personal assults.</span></p><p>Dont make assumptions. I didnt make any about you.</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Err.. yes you did. Let me quote "In fact <u><i>you suck</i></u> for letting it happen"</span></p><p>Peace.</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">True, lets try and keep some peace. Its quite annyoing for the others to read these personal posts. I expect you will answer to this post but as long as you dont throw it all back on me again im fine. We can all have a bad day, and i suppose you just had. And one more thing, i liked this post - it was much more constuctive and has just proving me wrong about the maturity problem.</span></p></blockquote>

[Wildfury77]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote><p>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?  Not every lvl 10 in WoW has a lvl 70 friend when theystart, but they are able to deal with it long enough to gain lvl and learn ther game.  Problem lies in this lvl locking system in eq2.  The one simply most pathetic feature in a pvp you can think of.  Fine you wanna lvl lock, then thats your risk, but no lvl 10 is going to protect themselves <i><u>vs a lvl 14 in fabled --</u></i><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How many times do i need to point out that most tier 2 fabled is TRASH?, treasured gear is often better and cheaper - also SoE have added <u>lovely new Treasured armor with nice stats/resists & hps which i believe drops in FMG etc</u>......gearing up has never been easier!!!</span></b>, which is what people here use to flex their egos.  God forbid like i said once b4 sony gave us a week of FFA on pvp servers.  You lvl locked gankers would simply get a taste of what you do to other people and maybe see the light. </p></blockquote><p>GRATZ to SoE for NOT listening to the whiners and taking something away!! </p><p>They've solved the problem by adding beautifully balanced Treasured gear thats instance dropped <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now that gearing is even easier I wonder what excuse the WHINERS will come with next to ruin our fun???</p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Being that i Played on the most hardcore pvp server eq had (SULLON ZEK) played on the teams FFA on Vanguard and WOW.</blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. ^^FFA PvP is never a good idea. No matter how you justify it.. it doesn't work. Unless of course you're a griefer and then its a win-win environment. Twinks exist now because they can't attack low level characters on their lvl 70 mains.  Removing the lvl restriction will just give them a reason to login to their mains more often. Not every new player has a lvl 70 friend there to defend them when they ding 10 and the vultures swoop in.</blockquote><p>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?  Not every lvl 10 in WoW has a lvl 70 friend when theystart, but they are able to deal with it long enough to gain lvl and learn ther game.  Problem lies in this lvl locking system in eq2.  The one simply most pathetic feature in a pvp you can think of.  Fine you wanna lvl lock, then thats your risk, but no lvl 10 is going to protect themselves <i><u>vs a lvl 14 in fabled --</u></i><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">How many times do i need to point out that most tier 2 fabled is TRASH?, treasured gear is often better and cheaper - also SoE have added <u>lovely new Treasured armor with nice stats/resists & hps which i believe drops in FMG etc</u>......gearing up has never been easier!!!</span></b>, which is what people here use to flex their egos.  God forbid like i said once b4 sony gave us a week of FFA on pvp servers.  You lvl locked gankers would simply get a taste of what you do to other people and maybe see the light. </p></blockquote><p>GRATZ to SoE for NOT listening to the whiners and taking something away!! </p><p>They've solved the problem by adding beautifully balanced Treasured gear thats instance dropped <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> Now that gearing is even easier I wonder what excuse the WHINERS will come with next to ruin our fun???</p></blockquote>Are you <i>still</i> seriously defending locking at 14?  If it's so easy to gear up, gear up at T2 or T3.  Sheesh.  Why is that so hard to do?  Because a toon at that level might be able to turn around and stomp you?  Which toons are yours at T2 again?

[Killque]

<cite>fugutaiten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here is an idea:</p><p>Anytime you see someone outside of your level range, that is in attackable range, go ahead and attack them. Doesnt matter if they are 30 or 70 just attack everyone in that range...</p><p>Come back here after a few days and let us know how much fun your having...</p></blockquote>Been there done that, like i said I played on sullon since kunark, played on wow and played on vangard servers that didnt have the "blue" level restriction that protects people that would cry about getting ganked a few times by a higher level. Mt biggiest gripe like i said is it eliminates the immersion.  Let me ask the lockers this; if they remove the level restrictions how would you all feel? would you quit? would you feel like your twinking was in vain because you can get killed by any level? Or would you still enjoy pvp against people of similar level?</blockquote><p>Funny, last time I checked this wasnt EQ1, WoW or Vanguard.</p><p>I played on Zek too btw. Having such a legacy does not make you or anyone an expert on the FFA/ No level range aspect of eq2.</p><p>Seriously, do what I suggest for a week, let us know how that works out for you...</p>

[blackdragon44]

<p>FFa would make this game so much better, if implimented right, make it so that higher levels can kill the lower level people, but keep the level difference in, and that determines if you receive fame/envy or faction. </p><p>This would allow someone to bring their main in, or a guildy to come help clear out the "e-peeners", give lower level charictures atleast a chance, and would hopefully do away with some of the ungodly tweenks at t2/3</p>

[Wildfury77]

<p>I don't have a Tier 2 lock ---> But if someone wishes to LOCK @ Lvl 14 good luck to them given that the majority of tier 2 are locked at lvl 17......</p><p>The new lvl 17 treasured drops SoE have added are superior in every way to MC or lvl 10 fabled.  The lvl 14 locks are so few as to be irrelevant & ANY new player can now cheaply gear up at lvl 17 without needing to earn plat/ illegally buy plat or even harvest!!!  ---> Even the *Can Gear, Won't Gear crowd* can compete <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I don't need to defend something that isn't a problem <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Seriously guys i know you're upset we don't want to come and get chain-ganked by your beautifully equipped lvl 70s but give it a rest already!!</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>My apologies for assuming that you had a T2 lock.  As for the concept that everybody's got a 70 totally fabled out, I hate to burst your bubble, but the majority aren't, unless they're in one of the major raiding guilds.  Look at my toon.  See the gear I'm using?  That's about the average for T7.  The majority of players don't post on the forums, but seriously, the whole "ZOMG, you guys just want to roll over us with your fabled toons on your way to a raid!" thing is waaaay off.  T7 combat in KOS isn't my idea of fun, by the way, but Loping Plains is.  Nothing more fun than having a couple of T7 NPC's wander in to a fight and throw a monkey wrench into the mix.  </p><p>To counter the whole "it isn't a problem" stance, it <i>is</i> a problem.  It's unbalanced at that tier like in no other tier.  Every single time a new player, a returning player, or one curious about PvP vs PvE comes in, spends the next 30 minutes getting chain-ganked, and says "**** this, if this is what the whole game's like you can keep it", there's one less player to compete against, and one less player to fill the ranks of any losses due to attrition, as opposed to them potentially bring in additional fresh blood as they tell others what a great game it is.  If that's not a clear and obvious point to someone in favor of ganking newbies at the front door, then that person is clearly in need of some additional life experience in the real world.  And to the "Well, they're just not cut out for PvP, 'cause we only want hardcore players here" crowd, it's a game.  There's nothing 'hardcore' about a game until there's actual physical pain involved.  Rugby?  Hardcore.  Grecco-Roman wrestling?  Hardcore.  Martial arts sparring on a tatami?  Hardcore.  Clicking buttons?  Not hardcore.</p>

[DravynX]

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have a Tier 2 lock ---> But if someone wishes to LOCK @ Lvl 14 good luck to them given that the majority of tier 2 are locked at lvl 17......</p><p>The new lvl 17 treasured drops SoE have added are superior in every way to MC or lvl 10 fabled.  The lvl 14 locks are so few as to be irrelevant & ANY new player can now cheaply gear up at lvl 17 without needing to earn plat/ illegally buy plat or even harvest!!!  ---> Even the *Can Gear, Won't Gear crowd* can compete <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I don't need to defend something that isn't a problem <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Seriously guys i know you're upset we don't want to come and get chain-ganked by your beautifully equipped lvl 70s but give it a rest already!!</p></blockquote><p>So a person needs to be lvl 17 to compete with level 14's? heh...wow such astounding logic!  At any rate, most treasured doesn't stack up, and the treasured you are referring to doesn't come from Ant/CL and other noob zone quest areas. At least not any that I could get my hands on, and I did every quest I could find in those areas for AA. Of course, every new and returning player runs straight to EoF for their quests, right? Most treasured gear for those quests comes with crap like +5 power + 5 health +5 divine resist, etc. There are some, some decent quest rewards that almost match MC but not quite. </p><p>You're defending pvp in a tier that's the most unbalanced in the entire game. At some point you have to raise the covering on your optical receptors.</p>

[Killque]

<cite>blackdragon44 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>FFa would make this game so much better, if implimented right, make it so that higher levels can kill the lower level people, but keep the level difference in, and that determines if you receive fame/envy or faction. </p><p>This would allow someone to bring their main in, or a guildy to come help clear out the "e-peeners", give lower level charictures atleast a chance, and would hopefully do away with some of the ungodly tweenks at t2/3</p></blockquote><p>So, if your 20 in a full group of 6, and a group of 25 twinks is around killing you, how is brining in a 70 to kill them giving anyone a chance?Exactly what "chance" does that give you?  A chance to leach? </p><p>I would like you to describe the PERFECT scenario for a pvp battle that includes no level ranges.......</p>

[Killque]

<p>And another thing.... if you are all complaining about the lockers, you do realize there are lockers that are higher level on your team somewhere right?? Why dont you just call them over??</p><p>So a 17 twink is griefing you in antonica, why the h-e double hockey stick are you not calling over a 21 twink to take care of it? Do you really need a 70?</p><p>What gives people?</p>

[Wildfury77]

<cite>DravynX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have a Tier 2 lock ---> But if someone wishes to LOCK @ Lvl 14 good luck to them given that the majority of tier 2 are locked at lvl 17......</p><p>The new lvl 17 treasured drops SoE have added are superior in every way to MC or lvl 10 fabled.  The lvl 14 locks are so few as to be irrelevant & ANY new player can now cheaply gear up at lvl 17 without needing to earn plat/ illegally buy plat or even harvest!!!  ---> Even the *Can Gear, Won't Gear crowd* can compete <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I don't need to defend something that isn't a problem <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> Seriously guys i know you're upset we don't want to come and get chain-ganked by your beautifully equipped lvl 70s but give it a rest already!!</p></blockquote><p>So a person needs to be lvl 17 to compete with level 14's? heh...wow such astounding logic!  At any rate, most treasured doesn't stack up, and the treasured you are referring to doesn't come from Ant/CL and other noob zone quest areas. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b><u>It was <span style="font-size: medium;">added</span> last update!! you guys are so far out of tier 2/3/4 that you don't even know about MAJOR changes or even how we play these days</u></b> </span>At least not any that I could get my hands on, and I did every quest I could find in those areas for AA. Of course, every new and returning player runs straight to EoF for their quests, right? Most treasured gear for those quests comes with crap like +5 power + 5 health +5 divine resist, etc. There are some, some decent quest rewards that almost match MC but not quite. </p><p>You're defending pvp in a tier that's the most unbalanced in the entire game. At some point you have to raise the covering on your optical receptors.</p></blockquote>

[MaCloud1032]

Ill say this you give ffa on Qs and there wont be a twink problem darklight any more.  Ill run them out untill they get the 70s.  Then Ill run them out.Iam not doing it for faction iam doing it so people can level.

[Killque]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ill say this you give ffa on Qs and there wont be a twink problem darklight any more.  Ill run them out untill they get the 70s.  Then Ill run them out.Iam not doing it for faction iam doing it so people can level.</blockquote><p>In effect destroying the game below level 70...</p><p>How do you infact intend to determine who gets to die and who gets to live?</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ill say this you give ffa on Qs and there wont be a twink problem darklight any more.  Ill run them out untill they get the 70s.  Then Ill run them out.Iam not doing it for faction iam doing it so people can level.</blockquote><p>In effect destroying the game below level 70...</p><p>How do you infact intend to determine who gets to die and who gets to live?</p></blockquote><p>Any Q in a zone that is freeport.  Meaning darklight, CL, ruins, so on.  Hell even if they set it up so that if a Q/exile were in a "Freeport" zone make them ffa.  That means your there to hunt be ready to be hunted.  As soon as you get to nek and beond back to current level crap.  I mean Gfay is already like this to an extent.</p><p>If iam in a war and i see some 13yr old kid killing my squad with a AK-47 iam not going to sit back and go well hes only 13 i have 10 years on him nothing i can do.  The kid is going to die. Period end of story</p>

[Killque]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ill say this you give ffa on Qs and there wont be a twink problem darklight any more.  Ill run them out untill they get the 70s.  Then Ill run them out.Iam not doing it for faction iam doing it so people can level.</blockquote><p>In effect destroying the game below level 70...</p><p>How do you infact intend to determine who gets to die and who gets to live?</p></blockquote><p>Any Q in a zone that is freeport.  Meaning darklight, CL, ruins, so on.  Hell even if they set it up so that if a Q/exile were in a "Freeport" zone make them ffa.  That means your there to hunt be ready to be hunted.  As soon as you get to nek and beond back to current level crap.  I mean Gfay is already like this to an extent.</p><p>If iam in a war and i see some 13yr old kid killing my squad with a AK-47 iam not going to sit back and go well hes only 13 i have 10 years on him nothing i can do.  The kid is going to die. Period end of story</p></blockquote>I hope you all realize this mentality is exactly why they do not allow you to "Shoot 13 year old kids wielding AK-47's"

[MaCloud1032]

i said he shot first. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Fine ill take it else where.  /shake fist

[Killque]

<cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>i said he shot first. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Fine ill take it else where.  /shake fist</blockquote>Ya, but he shot another 13 year old =P not you

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>i said he shot first. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Fine ill take it else where.  /shake fist</blockquote>Ya, but he shot another 13 year old =P not you</blockquote>still shot a ally or how ever thats spelled

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?</blockquote>It doesn't work. I've played just about every MMO that offers PvP when I retired from UO (also a ruined FFA system). Don't put lipstick on a pig. FFA PvP servers make DLW look like cub scout troop meeting. Low level players spend more time looking for a rez than they do anything else.Also, the maturity level on FFA PvP servers reflects the nature of those who enjoy such anarchy. While I'm sure there are a handful of exceptions.. the majority of the population on such servers consists of peeps bored of their game consoles who run around and "click and kill" anything that moves.Vanguard is not a good example. Its population is nearly extinct. WoW is a horrible comparison as its turn over rate is extremely high and only holds its place as far as numbers go due to the number of new players who replace those burnt out. All the other games out there offer Faction and Level Restricted PvP or have Concentual PvP toggles built in to their game mechanics.FFA PvP "works" in some games because there is a large audience out there looking for more challenging targets than the AI offered in Doom.Don't confuse popularity with success.</blockquote>Or it seems that you believe that these games popularity, is only due to their success. But fail to understand WHY they are successful. Typical Eq2 player. Hates WoW for their success and fails to see WHY they succeeded. Im in no way a WoW fanboi, i quit wow a while back, and its for the same reasons EQ2 is struggling, just a different perspective. Battlegrounds killed world pvp, and turned it into the same thing EQ2 has, level ranged pvp. Ever thought that may be a reason people are leaving WoW and looking for other games? Many reasons. And just because Vanguard has a [Removed for Content] populace now does not make it void to comparison. Do you know why the populace stuggles in VG? Have you even played VG? The FFA pvp server was the highest pop server, a lot like nagafen in a pve game. Class balancing and game bugs is what turned a lot away. Not the pvp structure itself.

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The level ranges are there to protect players yes. Ant/CL used to be 8 levels then got nerfed to 4 levels thanks to all the carebears crying on this forum. SinkingSands used to be unlimited pvp back in the day too ( now 10 lvl range ).</p></blockquote>Except it actually isn't helping any players at all, especially players without the financial backing of another toon or guild. Its hindering gameplay for new players, and thats where all the gripe is. Think about it, if you can keep the general populace from lvling up and staying within t2/t3 then thats where the majority of the pvp is. Lvl 70's realize theres not much pvp going on right now so they make a t2/t3 twink. Eventually all follow suit and higher tiers die while lower tiers flourish. All because of lvl restrictions, and no real incentive for higher lvl pvp. Now if they took away all pvp gear and made it not obtainable till 50+, you MIGHT see more of an incentive for the lvl lockers to lvl up. 

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rezwal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Herne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Rezwal. Maybe if you had been grouped with your " rl friend " you wouldnt have let him get ganked. </p></blockquote>Where the hell did this attack come from? seriously - no need for that kind of assults.Hands down, im no great player and i dont have any toons near T7 - hell! i have a life outside this game. I still have alot to learn in this game but besides that im an ol' MMORPG player.I was just reading this post and threw my 2 cents in it, I can be wrong - but its still my point of view.And now such a little whimp stomps on me simply because i lack some knowledge in this game....seriously - this only shows us that spyderbite is right in some degree. PvP servers are up against some serious maturity problem.- Rezwal</blockquote><p>Dont make assumptions. I didnt make any about you.</p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote>Actually you did. "<span style="font-size: 11px;font-family: verdana;color: #444444;" class="Apple-style-span">In fact you suck for letting it happen. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />" Sounded like a direct insult / assumption to me.</span>

[fugutait]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then  explain why it DOES work so well in just about every other MMO on the market?</blockquote>It doesn't work. I've played just about every MMO that offers PvP when I retired from UO (also a ruined FFA system). Don't put lipstick on a pig. FFA PvP servers make DLW look like cub scout troop meeting. Low level players spend more time looking for a rez than they do anything else.Also, the maturity level on FFA PvP servers reflects the nature of those who enjoy such anarchy. While I'm sure there are a handful of exceptions.. the majority of the population on such servers consists of peeps bored of their game consoles who run around and "click and kill" anything that moves.Vanguard is not a good example. Its population is nearly extinct. WoW is a horrible comparison as its turn over rate is extremely high and only holds its place as far as numbers go due to the number of new players who replace those burnt out. All the other games out there offer Faction and Level Restricted PvP or have Concentual PvP toggles built in to their game mechanics.FFA PvP "works" in some games because there is a large audience out there looking for more challenging targets than the AI offered in Doom.Don't confuse popularity with success.</blockquote>Or it seems that you believe that these games popularity, is only due to their success. But fail to understand WHY they are successful. Typical Eq2 player. Hates WoW for their success and fails to see WHY they succeeded. Im in no way a WoW fanboi, i quit wow a while back, and its for the same reasons EQ2 is struggling, just a different perspective. Battlegrounds killed world pvp, and turned it into the same thing EQ2 has, level ranged pvp. Ever thought that may be a reason people are leaving WoW and looking for other games? Many reasons. And just because Vanguard has a [I cannot control my vocabulary] populace now does not make it void to comparison. Do you know why the populace stuggles in VG? Have you even played VG? The FFA pvp server was the highest pop server, a lot like nagafen in a pve game. Class balancing and game bugs is what turned a lot away. Not the pvp structure itself.</blockquote><p>/signed Like i said im eager to see what warhamer does because this pvp system is far from pvp...Wow had the ideal pvp system untill the creation of battlegrounds which ruined real world pvp. But the way this format is, you will not see raids on cities with people from all tiers chipping in to help</p>