Coercers Are A B-R-O-K-E-N Class Part 2

[Heartbrand]

Since Sony decided to delete the first topic rather than respond I thought we should bring it up again until they finally make some sort of comment. So I'm just going to list through all the reasons Coercer's suck/broken atm.- Many of our spells utilize power drains. Power drain does not operate in the game. Therefore many of our spells are useless.  Solution: Either make Power Drain spells give mana to the group or completely replace them with something else. - Charm is useless for any purpose other than to solo grind exp in the one or two zones you have yet to nerf our charm.   Solution: Short term epic charm OR does not take 3 Concentration Spots OR make Charm mobs powerful enough to actually warrant charming OR give us something else and give up on the concept.- We have no DPS. Coercers are the lowest on the DPS scale next to healers. Yes, with the highest raid and proc gear one can acquire we can get our way up to 2k with non-stop clicking. But then again at that point your main tank is also putting up that DPS if your guild is geared that well. If we had some sort of uber broken utility spells such as in EQ1 I'd understand why our DPS is negligible compared to other classes. The fact is we don't have that. Heck, illusionists our sister class put out 2x the DPS we have, and what do we have that they don't that warrants us having 1/2 the DPS? - Crowd Control is useless in this game but yet it makes up a big part of our class. Before many people respond and say it isn't let me explain this. In an OPTIMAL group set up there's no need for crowd control. The DPS will take out the encounter. All mez does is decrease DPS. Yes, in a [Removed for Content] pick up group in Castle Mistmoore an enchanter is nice. But that's not because of our uber skills it's because you are in a [Removed for Content] low DPS output pick up group. Mez obviously serves no purpose on raids. Before someone mentions that stupid eye in Lyceum, everyone I know just burns through him anyway. And whoopdie doo one encounter where possibly mez could be used, but that again Illusionists have a better Mez and better DPS to go along with it. Figure.- Our reactives blow. Even fully upgraded, in raids they rarely ever expire after debuffs go on. Yes spell scourge will get you some DPS in a few encounters in this game, great another coercer spell that has some sort of functionality in one or two areas. I'm not even sure what the solution to them are to be honest but I'm sure some of the other smart coercers on these boards can come up with some. - There is really no need for a coercer on a raid. We bring thought snap / mana ward / channel. That's it. I used to be able to say enraging demeanor but you guys made sure to take care of that and remove it from being useful as well with the hate cap and our laughable DPS to provide any transfer aggro. Thought Snap and Mana Ward are both AA's. Mana Ward is useful on only several fights Wuoshi/Contested Mayong/Avatars, while Thought Snap is only needed on a few encounters where the boss mob ditches. Channel can be used once every fifteen minutes. For the rest of the entire raid we serve no purpose. Illusionists are better because they can mana flow and provide mana regen while doing much better DPS.The last post got deleted because I spoke about our rumored future spells. Without revealing any NDA info that could get this rant deleted suffice it to say it's more of the same and no fix for coercers on the horizon. Wake up Sony, there's a reason Coercers are the least played class in the game. We either need MUCH better utility to justify having craptacular DPS along with spells that hey I don't know actually function in the game, or we need a huge DPS boost. Regardless, more of the same along with a possible (I didn't even know this was feasible) worse concept of a spell for coercers is not a solution. Edit: I forgot to mention Possession. Our "special' KOS Spell. AKA the WORST spell in KOS and quite possibly the WORST spell in the entire game of EQ2 and perhaps even the history of MMORPG's. True North had more utility than Possession and this is when there was a big compass showing you what North was before you even used the spell. How is this spell still in our books right now? How has this not been changed? Hello? Anyone home? Anyone there? This spell is a DISGRACE to coercer's and the developer who is responsible for it should honestly be ashamed/fired. Thanks.

[Cakassis]

Tell us how you really feel.  Don't hold back.

[TheBigK]

Breaking this down:1) Power drains are useless for epic fights, but all of the power drains do something else ...  Stun / Stifle, so I'm still using them during raids.  Especially on peels with the harder end mobs, they break and I'll stun/stifle if Thought snap isn't up.2) I agree I never used charm much, but when I did it pretty much sucked.  I'd ask for a heal but that will never ever ever ever ever ever happen.  Did I mention ever?  I agree I'd like to see some kind of improvement here.3) DPS.  Lies.  Coercers are decent dps.  If you are only beating your healers you are doing something wrong.  I'll come in front of the bards, and other fighter classes except bruisers 75% of the time.  That's with me still doing the utility functions that we're there for.  Stun/Stifle/Manaflow/Thought snap.  In the DPS grp I can give the illusionist a run for his money.  I'm not aggrevated about the dps, since we bring a decent overall toolbag to the fight.4) I don't find myself using any type of crowd control anymore.  Bummer .. kinda .. maybe .. but I won't lose sleep over it.  I am busy doing enough other stuff that I don't miss mezzing.5) I disagree.  If I were to maintain nothing but Auspex, Cataclysmic Mind and Spell Scourge I'll be in the 700-800 dps range.  I've done it when eating and trying to do other stuff when the raid is in full swing.  That's 3 spells ever 30s or so.    It doesn't bother me but then again I didn't roll a Coercer for DPS.6) I have a home in our raids.  Sometimes I want to cut and can't because we bring more to the raid than you think.  The hate transfer for me was a fantastic thing.  I am much better off in the MT group now.  Remember, there is more than dps that is generating aggro.  Every time a stun / stifle is thrown ... regen/debuffs.  If you ask either of our tanks they'll say things got better after the last LU, not worse.  I dropped Manaward a few months ago in favor of thought snap .. my other line is Coersive Healing.  As far as Channel, if you have a trob call for a Cap.  It brings the reuse down to 9 minutes or so.  Frequent enough to use it maybe twice on hard mobs like Woushi.  The only thing I don't like in the last LU is the change to mana cloak/cover.  The change is the suck as far as that spell goes, IMO.  I'd really like to see that back to a 15 min recast w/ 3 min duration and no limits on the # of triggers.I've never used possession so I won't drop my .02 there.

[joshshift]

i agree with the OP, nice post. only thing i would add is why sony takes away our ability to charm some mobs, for instance bloodblooms in tenebrous tangle, give me a break, they are everywhere and we cant charm them? why? that is just one example of the many mobs that cant be charmed for no good reason, while other mobs that shouldnt be charmed are still charmable? [Removed for Content]. i mean sure, they are for a quest but there are about 50 of them in the zone at any given time, i dont think one being charmed is going to annoy anybody.

[Obsidiann]

Amen.

[Heartbrand]

In regards to the post about DPS. I admitted that yes, Coercers can reach 2k DPS with optimal gear. But this is laughable compared to the same DPS other classes can put out, in fact all classes other than healers with the same gear. Will we still pass some people who aren't well geared / afk / suck etc., in a raid? Sure. But when all people are bringing their A game we fall near the bottom. Why is this an issue? Because the way EQ2 Raids are designed the most important stat, in fact really the only stat that matters is Raid DPS. All the other classes seem to have it to a greater extent than us. Why is that? What do we have that warrants us having a lower DPS? Why do Illusionists put out twice as much DPS as us? Do we have over powered abilities they do not?

[Oriax]

What I don't understand is why everyone says Possession is such a useless spell. I use it quiet often. Only thing is it's only good for a single target mob. Hey, if I have the ability to possess a single target mob and use it to beat as much life as I can out of the mob I am after before I lay into it then I will. There are alot of cases where I can take out nearly half of my targets HP before the spell wears off and the half beaten mob comes running for me. WOW! Now I only have to kill a half dead mob instead of one at 100% health. I don't see nothing wrong with that.

[Heartbrand]

I'm not sure what mob's you're fighting but if it's a non-heroic I can down it within ten seconds rendering possession utterly useless.

[Bombodale]

I admit i don't use possession much. I always thought that if i use it to beat up another mob and i run out of time, I end up with 2 angry mobs instead of one to handle. Perhaps Oriax, you can explain when to use it?

[Obsidiann]

Not only is possession merely a glorified fun spell, it's also broken. Possess one mob of a linked encounter and engaged the mob that is linked to you. You'll be able to attack it for 10-15 seconds before it will snap back, deaggro and regenerate all of its health. A few seconds later it will re-aggro and you can attack it again at full health. Repeat until Posession's timer runs out.I could not be more disappointed with this spell.

[Heartbrand]

The only use it has is to posses a newbie mob and scare them with it or help buff them much to their dismay. Of course even this isn't too much fun because of the crazy short duration. Had posses been an ability to drop on an already charmed mob where we can micro manage it's abilities, then it would be useful. Imagine being able to control the bone candles and always use the nuke? That would be fun. And heck maybe actually give coercers something worthwhile for their risk vs. reward

[Flipmode]

<p>I have to agree with the OP.  I have a well geared 70 Coercer and lets just say I work way more hard for that 1.4-2k DPS on him than on my Illusionist.  And to the guy who said in a troub grp he could give an Illusionist a run for his money....not even a little bit.  My Illusionist will blow you out of the water on ANY fight in the same grp.  Wont even be close.</p><p> But lets remember Sony's motto.  Why fix something when you can nerf it.  They will not fix Coercers.  They will nerf Illusionists.  Mark my words.</p>

[Asmara]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to agree with the OP.  I have a well geared 70 Coercer and lets just say I work way more hard for that 1.4-2k DPS on him than on my Illusionist.  And to the guy who said in a troub grp he could give an Illusionist a run for his money....not even a little bit.  My Illusionist will blow you out of the water on ANY fight in the same grp.  Wont even be close.</p><p> But lets remember Sony's motto.  Why fix something when you can nerf it.  They will not fix Coercers.  They will nerf Illusionists.  Mark my words.</p></blockquote>*eyes the delete button*sometimes Hope is a bad thing...*sighs and just plays another toon*

[madha]

<p>I agree with the op.</p><p>posession is useless I would be hard pressed to even find it in my spell book.</p><p>Charm is most [Removed for Content] ability in game.  I cannot duo with my templer wife with a charm pet casue her aa auto cures arcane and her hudge group hp buff buffs mental dmg, charmed mob will break about every 5 min.</p><p>Charm spell upgrades suck all they do is increase the duration and add nothing over the last tier spell, you get one mastered your good for ever.  Add some thing like t7 charm reduces the amount mobs are gimped by 30% or something.  Funiest thing I do is solo POA i get no exp but i can get anywhere i want just letting mobs kill my charmed pet in about 30 seconds, same mob killing same mob, funny stuff.</p><p>Or dmg sucks, unless you have all proc gear and constant mash buttons even dots that are all rdy up just to get the proc dmg, then you do crap for dps.  The reactive dmg model is a horrible basses for a mage class, its great for healers casue they work great as heals, but when a tank with great gear and stone skin from dirg, templer, god like agility, massive + block, and a ton of wards doesnt get hit half our spells will jsut sit there and never count down.  I have seen it happen cast auspex on start of a trash mob mob dies abiout a minute or so later auspex hase used one charge.  I have asked our healers not to ward on trash mobs, my dps went up about 300-500 a fight on trash mobs.  But still with all master spells casting my tail off i get maybe 700 raid wide dps, where as a duel boxing illusionist with a healer in the MT group can out parse me by double sometimes triple.  </p><p>Now the op is right.  What do we offer that warents such low DPS. The thing is I think we could dps batter then illusionists if all our reactive spells where changed to be just dots or made them reactive on ward hits or off any combat or special ability the mob attempts. I think reactiving off auto attack from the mob might make us over powerd so just 100% reactive off any sort of casted attack would bring us up to the rest of the mages. Will it ever happen i doubt it casue thata hudge shift from what we have now.</p>

[Heartbrand]

I like that. If our reactives worked on wards as well then yea that's an extra 300-500 DPS right there. And there's no reason it shouldn't be this way like I and others have pointed out. Our DPS is abysmal compared to other classes and there's no utility based reason why it should be that way. However I'm afraid that's just one of many changes our class requires. Viable charm or a reworking/removal/replacement of the concept is another huge one.

[WasFycksir]

<p>Great post OP.  Now take all that frustration, nerf some of the spells even further and then go up against a scout or monk in PVP.  It about makes ya cry.</p><p>And yes I know Exur is uber and there are others too, but as a whole PVP coercers have it rough.</p>

[joshshift]

im surprised this thread hasnt been moved to off topic or somewhere even more ridiculous by the devs, i swear they hate us.

[Pancho]

I AGREE with the OP.Please dont take this lightly. I am a 70 Coercer, Pancho, on Guk. A guild leader of Trauma. I have a 70 ranger Panchostrikes, 70 mystic Sundance, 70 SK Panchito, etc. I'm not boasting or flaming. Just please take us Coercers seriously. We are avid raiders and my value in raids now is limited primarily to my dps buff, interrupts and power management.I would love to see more usefulness in raiding. AA abilities help, but there is still a large lack of usefulness on raids. I am dissapointed.

[Heartbrand]

And to think the last thing Sony did for Coercers was nerf them by decreasing the speed bonus on Perpetuality. Why don't they just get it over with and delete the Coercer class?

[Aule]

<cite>Heartbrand wrote:</cite><blockquote>And to think the last thing Sony did for Coercers was nerf them by decreasing the speed bonus on Perpetuality. Why don't they just get it over with and delete the Coercer class?</blockquote><p>At the same time we were nerfed on perpetuality the spell damage changes went in dramatically boosting the effectiveness of those gear items.  This change has been the single most damage boosting update that I can recall.  The change to perpetuality was to balance the increase damage.  Would you rather perpetuality was un-nerfed and the old bolt of energy system was in place?</p><p>Currently I now run with +470 in spell damage and am spec'd Str/Agil and have been able to clear 2k zonewide dps in FTH with a fairly optimal group setup.</p>

[madha]

<cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Heartbrand wrote:</cite><blockquote>And to think the last thing Sony did for Coercers was nerf them by decreasing the speed bonus on Perpetuality. Why don't they just get it over with and delete the Coercer class?</blockquote><p>At the same time we were nerfed on perpetuality the spell damage changes went in dramatically boosting the effectiveness of those gear items.  This change has been the single most damage boosting update that I can recall.  The change to perpetuality was to balance the increase damage.  Would you rather perpetuality was un-nerfed and the old bolt of energy system was in place?</p><p>Currently I now run with +470 in spell damage and am spec'd Str/Agil and have been able to clear 2k zonewide dps in FTH with a fairly optimal group setup.</p></blockquote>Optimal group set up, man i hear that all the time.  I am allways, allways in the MT group and besides Dirg and the templer aa that increase proc rate the mt group is far from optimal.  But you put a illusionist in the same group and u'll see 50% more dps then you.  But we all have our ideas on how to fix our class but will soe listen.. no.

[Aule]

<cite>madhatr wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Heartbrand wrote:</cite><blockquote>And to think the last thing Sony did for Coercers was nerf them by decreasing the speed bonus on Perpetuality. Why don't they just get it over with and delete the Coercer class?</blockquote><p>At the same time we were nerfed on perpetuality the spell damage changes went in dramatically boosting the effectiveness of those gear items.  This change has been the single most damage boosting update that I can recall.  The change to perpetuality was to balance the increase damage.  Would you rather perpetuality was un-nerfed and the old bolt of energy system was in place?</p><p>Currently I now run with +470 in spell damage and am spec'd Str/Agil and have been able to clear 2k zonewide dps in FTH with a fairly optimal group setup.</p></blockquote>Optimal group set up, man i hear that all the time.  I am allways, allways in the MT group and besides Dirg and the templer aa that increase proc rate the mt group is far from optimal.  But you put a illusionist in the same group and u'll see 50% more dps then you.  But we all have our ideas on how to fix our class but will soe listen.. no.</blockquote><p>My reply was regarding the perpetuality change only, which affected Illusionist and Coercer equally.  I was replying to illustrate that the nerf to perpetuality can't be taken simply on its own, the overall effect of the patch was a BOOST to enchanters.</p><p>Do we get outparsed by Illusionists that don't suck?  Sure, that wasn't mentioned in my post though.  Do I agree that it sure would be nice for there to be a good parity between the dps of our classes?  You bet.  </p><p>The topic here though was regarding the accuracy of the statement "the last thing Sony did for Coercers was to nerf them" which is a false statement.  I wouldn't want someone considering playing a Coercer for the first time to read this and take an inaccurate statement as fact.</p><p>That being said I'm often in the MT group as well, rare occasions I get to be in a more optimal group.  That's partly why I spec'd for str/agil instead of agil/int.  Dirge in MT group buffing melee with COB and having no other caster support for me I might as well take advantage of what I'm being provided.</p>

[Evariste]

<p>Since the last thing the dev did about one of the class they have never played, enchanters, i think not only they dont care about us, but they like to nerf us.</p><p>I feeled the last patch about mana cloak as a nice nerf. </p><p>I still feel the nerf about tm, about spell whipe, about our never-fixed-uselesspve-manadrain spells. I still feel our newspell T7, possession, as a very GREAT joke, and i feel our new spell T8 like the greatest joke they ever did us. You know, my guildleader played a coercer too, he rerolled of course, and sometimes, always tell me the wife of the chanty dev quit him to go with a coercer player.. That's about all the love we have..</p><p>Now, to the new players who want to play coercer, and come to this forum, i dont want to lie them.. Coercer is a good class from 2 or 3 spells. And if you want to raid, you'll be bored to death. And when you'll reach lvl 60, you'll have seen the full game about coercer. We have nothing new from 60 to 70, and reaaly nothing to expect to 80.</p><p>Now if you want to play solo, pvp, or group, or be a roleplayer, that's a different story.</p><p>ps :"the last thing Sony did for Coercers was to nerf them" which is a false statement.  Indeed, the last thing they did for coercer is puppetmaster, and it's not a nerf , you re right.. It's a nice F.U. joke.</p>

[Ramladu]

I think they're just getting back at us for the charm "bug" that allowed coercers to solo yellow heroics faster than even the best exp groups.In all honesty though, the class really is a mess in so many ways.  Charm, while it has it's uses, is far too limited.   It's great for soloing and isn't so bad in kos zones with good charm mobs.  In eof, even with aa's, it's so flaky and weak that there's really no reason to give up the buffs you need the concentration slots for.  Fighter pets can't hold agro, even the best caster pets don't do all that much damage, and in unrest/nizara/cmm/sof the charm breaks far too often for it to really be viable.While I like the idea of reactive nukes, they need a serious overhaul.  They seem like a poor choice for a class that relies on stuns and dazes to make mobs attack less. The bottom line, for me, is that I still enjoy playing a coercer.  The problem though is that I tend to enjoy it a little less every time our shortcomings become far too evident.  Crowd control?  Sure, in a crappy group, non-raid specced, maybe I'll be able to land enough mezzes to be of use.  We always have sonic boom, that's 3 seconds of crowd control until we're a stain on the ground.  Thought snap...useful in some encounters, otherwise it's just a possible 7 second delay on the wipe.  The only thing we have going for us is a few nice buffs and solid (if inconsistent) dps.Oh well, I played a Beastlord in EQ1.  I know what it's like for my entire class' worth to be tied up into 2 buffs <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MokiCh]

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Great post OP.  Now take all that frustration, nerf some of the spells even further and then go up against a scout or monk in PVP.  It about makes ya cry.</p><p>And yes I know Exur is uber and there are others too, but as a whole PVP coercers have it rough.</p></blockquote>You're missing the fundamental problem with Coercers in PvP. I could kill a swashbuckler, brigand or a monk in PvP, because the individual attacks don't hurt as much as rangers, assassins, wizards, etc. An assassin will kill me in 2 hits before I even get a chance to cast Auspex, and Auspex doesn't proc on ranged attacks so you have to rely totally on spell scourge, cataclysmic mind and your puny DD's to do damage to them. And again they have the whole kill you in two shots thing going on.The problem in PvP is twofold:1) Firstly, it's the very nature of reactive damage and us being a cloth class without much in the way of defence. If you need to hit me in order for me to do any sort of meaningful damage to you, it should be obvious that we need some sort of additional defence. Items like shield of the magi help, but they're not something you can count on all the time. So we either need something like manashield or nullmail, maybe in the form of AA lines, that give us some extra survivability, or our reactives could be changed from being reactive damage to proc damage like illusionists. And, yes, I'm aware we get a sort of defensive spec with counterblade from the STR line, but Auspex doesn't trigger on attacks avoided, only attacks that actually hit you, so I really haven't found much use for it myself.2) Secondly, a lot of our strength and potential damage output depends on the zone we're in. If we're in a zone where there's some sort of decent charmable mob around (doesn't even have to be a corpse candle, several mobs in loping, TT, BS work fairly well), we're suddenly a lot harder to kill than if we're in TS. No other class goes from being pretty easy prey to something that most people would think twice about attacking, simply by crossing a zone line.Of course, all of this goes back to fundamentals of the class that other people have already pointed out, but it just looks different in PvP. We do ok in solo PvP, and we rock in group PvP, but there are definetly improvements that I would like to see that would make the experience more enjoyable (and would make me take my Coercer back to Freeport, instead of hanging around Qeynos as an Illusionist just because they get a way better deal in PvE AND PvP).

[Maroger]

<p>I had an enchanter in EQlive and he was terrific. Great spells and great soloing skills. I always play Dark Elves so that left me with a coercer -- what a disappointment. The higher level he gets the worse he sucks. I am level 49 now and am struggling to reach 50 -- I do more levelling via collection quests than any other kind. </p><p>I don't want to betray to Qeynos just to make an Illusionist -- because I hate Qeynos and he owns the Freeport house.</p><p>If they aren't going to make Coercer a decent class to play, the least they could do is to make an illusionist a neutral class. </p><p>I really hate the artificial divide btween good and evil in the classes. That concept has gone out the window.</p><p>At least let us share some of the decent illusionist spells or give us a permanent pet like we used to have. These charmed pets suck. </p>

[Broet]

<p>I couldn't agree more with the OP.  I've played a Coercer since beta.  Total suck [Removed for Content] spells to be quite honest.  I do wonder if we are just one of those classes that is used for marketing purposes, yet no real effort goes into seriously sitting down and looking at our class to help refine it.</p><p>It really is a shame.  It would be nice to see some form of response from Sony Online Entertainment.</p>

[WasFycksir]

<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Great post OP.  Now take all that frustration, nerf some of the spells even further and then go up against a scout or monk in PVP.  It about makes ya cry.</p><p>And yes I know Exur is uber and there are others too, but as a whole PVP coercers have it rough.</p></blockquote>You're missing the fundamental problem with Coercers in PvP. I could kill a swashbuckler, brigand or a monk in PvP, because the individual attacks don't hurt as much as rangers, assassins, wizards, etc. An assassin will kill me in 2 hits before I even get a chance to cast Auspex, and Auspex doesn't proc on ranged attacks so you have to rely totally on spell scourge, cataclysmic mind and your puny DD's to do damage to them. And again they have the whole kill you in two shots thing going on.The problem in PvP is twofold:1) Firstly, it's the very nature of reactive damage and us being a cloth class without much in the way of defence. If you need to hit me in order for me to do any sort of meaningful damage to you, it should be obvious that we need some sort of additional defence. Items like shield of the magi help, but they're not something you can count on all the time. So we either need something like manashield or nullmail, maybe in the form of AA lines, that give us some extra survivability, or our reactives could be changed from being reactive damage to proc damage like illusionists. And, yes, I'm aware we get a sort of defensive spec with counterblade from the STR line, but Auspex doesn't trigger on attacks avoided, only attacks that actually hit you, so I really haven't found much use for it myself.2) Secondly, a lot of our strength and potential damage output depends on the zone we're in. If we're in a zone where there's some sort of decent charmable mob around (doesn't even have to be a corpse candle, several mobs in loping, TT, BS work fairly well), we're suddenly a lot harder to kill than if we're in TS. No other class goes from being pretty easy prey to something that most people would think twice about attacking, simply by crossing a zone line.Of course, all of this goes back to fundamentals of the class that other people have already pointed out, but it just looks different in PvP. We do ok in solo PvP, and we rock in group PvP, but there are definetly improvements that I would like to see that would make the experience more enjoyable (and would make me take my Coercer back to Freeport, instead of hanging around Qeynos as an Illusionist just because they get a way better deal in PvE AND PvP).</blockquote><p>I am not missing the point at all, at the time of my post I didn't have the time to type a full reply, which of course you had no way of knowing.  I did however want to chime in, because of the importance of this thread.</p><p>Now to your post, like the OP I agree with what you said, now I don't have to type it out TY /thank MokiChan</p>

[Roald]

<p>I agree we may be somewhat 'gimped' in PvE, but our DPS is not that bad.</p><p>Also, Coercer is not broken in PvP, infact, far from it. I can destroy anyone my level on my coercer, sometimes taking next to no damage.</p><p>Maybe you should change the title to:' Coercers Are a B-R-O-K-E-N Class in PvE Part 2'.</p>

[Ramladu]

Coercers are great in solo pvp until t6 or so, maybe even t7.  Before mana shield, even wizards and warlocks had trouble in high level solo pvp because of the ridiculous amount of physical damage scouts can do in a short amount of time.  Physical mitigation is extremely difficult for cloth casters to come by, even with the best gear, whereas their spells are heavily mitigated by scouts and fighters.  It's a balance issue that's been around since the beginning, but really doesn't start showing itself until T6 or T7.  Casters are great up until the end, and start to fall off after that.  Wizards and warlocks received mana shield, which really, really helps deal with the lack of hp and mitigation, but other casters get nothing.  That's not so much a coercer issue - it's an issue with being a cloth caster...coercers just get the worst of it due to how our spells work.  There are three major problems for coercers in pvp:  The first is that we're required to take damage in order to deal damage at a decent pace.  We simply can't finish people off without reactives being applied.  The second is that we're hit twice by mental mitigation checks, so even doing reactive damage can get difficult (our reactives can be outright resisted based on a mental check, and if it DOES land, the damage is mitigated like any other spell).  The third is that all of our spells are tied to the same type of resist and most of them can be very crippling in pvp (stuns, stifles, mezzes, low break chance root) so people tend to make it a priority to get mental resist above all others for pvp.  I'm not sure if your coercer is level 60+ yet Roald, because it's a world of difference when you get within range of the full fabled raiding players.  Even if you yourself are geared out in full raid gear, your spells still get constantly resisted.  Check out some of those Exur videos - he's one of the best geared coercers on Nagafen, and the majority of people he's fighting in those vids are nowhere near him gear-wise.  Still, he has trouble with some of them, and it has nothing to do with how he plays the class. 

[nscragg]

<cite>Ramladu wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crowd control?  Sure, in a crappy group, non-raid specced, maybe I'll be able to land enough mezzes to be of use.  </blockquote><p>Yes, I remember the day when CC was mandatory in some zones.  Now after nearly level-capping a defiler,  CC has been a thing of the past.  When your group doesn't take damage from adds due to the wards a defiler brings to the group... it sort of marginalizes the coercer class.</p><p>Don't get me wrong.  I love my coercer and will take him from 70 to 80.  However, I'm afraid when I demoted him to ALT status, it was forever.</p>

[Darkami669]

This class is soooo broke , and sony will do nothing , that is there nornal course of action, they have done this for YEARS ! no mater what proof, stats, posts etc. They will only fix a game when people start leaving the game in droves.