Remove evac from PvP servers, please.

[Amphibia]

I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? While other classes often require a lot of skill and smarts to get away from PK'ers, someone with an evac skill can just push one button and be spirited away to a safe spot where they can stand in immunity for as long as they wish. I can't think of anything in this game that is a bigger PvP killer than this, and it makes things just way too easy for those classes. Just look at the numbers, why are there so many brigands, swashies and rangers really? Perhaps the answer is not to remove evac entirely, but make it much longer to cast, significantly longer recast (1 hour perhaps?) and far easier to interrupt. Then it can still be used in PvE like before, as long as nothing is beating on the evac'er. I just think it is way too convinient and easy to use in its current form, espesially on a PvP server.I'm making this post because I'm sick of that thing now. Feel free to disagree, but I think the PvP servers would be better off without evac's. And maybe this is one of the reasons tier 2 PvP is so popular - nobody have the [Removed for Content] ability yet.

[Stuckx]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? While other classes often require a lot of skill and smarts to get away from PK'ers, someone with an evac skill can just push one button and be spirited away to a safe spot where they can stand in immunity for as long as they wish. I can't think of anything in this game that is a bigger PvP killer than this, and it makes things just way too easy for those classes. Just look at the numbers, why are there so many brigands, swashies and rangers really? Perhaps the answer is not to remove evac entirely, but make it much longer to cast, significantly longer recast (1 hour perhaps?) and far easier to interrupt. Then it can still be used in PvE like before, as long as nothing is beating on the evac'er. I just think it is way too convinient and easy to use in its current form, espesially on a PvP server.I'm making this post because sick of that thing now. Feel free to disagree, but I think the PvP servers would be better off without evac's. And maybe this is one of the reasons tier 2 PvP is so popular - nobody have the [Removed for Content] ability yet. </blockquote>Get rid of rangers first.

[Magius789]

<p>T2 PvP is so popular because in about a days time, with financial backing from a main, you can get geared out and dominate all the poor new people, plus zones like DLW are small enough that running into the opposing faction happens fairly frequently.</p><p>On the topic of the popularity of Rangers, Brigs, and Assassins I think if you look up the EQ2 population page you will see those classess are not the most popular, or at least not as popular as you might think them to be.  There are atleast two ways that I know of that non evac classess can get this ability also, therefore not making it a scout only (or classess that need it the least) ability since everyone can get it.  I think for the solo PvP/Quester they need a good solid way of getting away from that 3, 6, or x2 group that is chasing them.</p><p>While we are on the topic of things that really make us angry I would really like to see a freaking lvl requirement for the 48% and 50% horses.  I've seen WAY to many lvl 10 and 12 characters with 20p horses running around.  Thats what grinds my gears as Peter Griffon would say.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>T2 PvP is so popular because in about a days time, with financial backing from a main, you can get geared out and dominate all the poor new people, plus zones like DLW are small enough that running into the opposing faction happens fairly frequently.</p><p>On the topic of the popularity of Rangers, Brigs, and Assassins I think if you look up the EQ2 population page you will see those classess are not the most popular, or at least not as popular as you might think them to be.  There are atleast two ways that I know of that non evac classess can get this ability also, therefore not making it a scout only (or classess that need it the least) ability since everyone can get it.  I think for the solo PvP/Quester they need a good solid way of getting away from that 3, 6, or x2 group that is chasing them.</p><p>While we are on the topic of things that really make us angry I would really like to see a freaking lvl requirement for the 48% and 50% horses.  I've seen WAY to many lvl 10 and 12 characters with 20p horses running around.  Thats what grinds my gears as Peter Griffon would say.</p></blockquote>I know classes like wizards are also very popular, but most of them are bots. They also have evac, btw. The ways other classes can get evac has been discussed before, and I think everyone agreed that they those pretty much suck compared to having evac as a skill. I'd also rather see evac removed from the game than getting it myself, to be honest. I agree with you on the twink problem, hopefully something will be done about it when SOE are done "reviewing the options" and actually decide to do something about it.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. </blockquote>Nah.. no flames.Just.. no.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. </blockquote>Nah.. no flames.Just.. no.</blockquote>Fair enough. Why?

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Fair enough. Why? </blockquote>I'm typically attacked by groups of 3-5 or more. Rarely am I attacked 1v1. I'm all for a fight.. but I am allergic to suicide. In addition, why turn over my token to a group who caught me harvesting. I have an almost zero chance of survival if I stand and fight. But, if I evac, I can at least deny them my token and thus the faction gain.Some might say "well.. why don't you run?"Well.. with 3 of the 5 rooting you in one way or another.. running really isn't an issue.

[Necodem]

<p>yeah get rid of evac !</p><p>but there will still be people running, cliff jumping, etc.... soooo let's get rid of the current fame/title system too !</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>but there will still be people running, cliff jumping, etc.... soooo let's get rid of the current fame/title system too !</p></blockquote>Agreed.It'll take a dent in user numbers as the kiddies run back to WoW.. but, at least when I choose to stand my ground I'm dying for my faction. Not a potential fame or title gain for the gank jumping me. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove evac from PvP servers, please.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>At the least it needs to be a 4-5 second cast, interuptable by ANYTHING and not castable on the run. Oh, and double the recast. I mean interuptable by ANYTHING. You move, interupted, you take a single point of damage, interupted. A debuff lands on you, interupted.</p>

[Kulras]

<p>Wow, the crying!  Stop please!!!</p><p>   This ability allows me to PvP when I want, which is great.  I can go out, PvE, Farm stuff for crafting, and not worry to much about being ganked.  Then when I am more prepared I stand my ground and fight the fair fight.  IMHO, everyone should have evak to make it equal footing, but getting rid of it is just a dumb idea.</p><p>While we're at it, add invis to all classes too...being able to exploit PvE encounters for some classes but not others is just lame.  So in summary...</p><p>Invis & Evac for all...Fair enough?</p>

[mattmandude]

A lot of the classes that have evac have a hell of a time getting away when faced with a group, without evac.

[Amphibia]

<cite>mattmandude wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of the classes that have evac have a hell of a time getting away when faced with a group, without evac.</blockquote>Just like all the classes that don't have evac?

[Darkor]

<cite>Kulras wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wow, the crying!  Stop please!!!</p><p>   This ability allows me to PvP when I want, which is great.  I can go out, PvE, Farm stuff for crafting, and not worry to much about being ganked.  Then when I am more prepared I stand my ground and fight the fair fight.  IMHO, everyone should have evak to make it equal footing, but getting rid of it is just a dumb idea.</p><p>While we're at it, add invis to all classes too...being able to exploit PvE encounters for some classes but not others is just lame.  So in summary...</p><p>Invis & Evac for all...Fair enough?</p></blockquote><p>Invis totem 1 gold, evac = priceless</p><p> 65 Dreadnaught Swashy here, i'll sign the petition to remove evac at any given time!</p>

[Belgue]

Keep evac in game, but just increase to cast time to 6 secs, and that you cant cast on the run.

[Novusod]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.

[toenukl]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On the topic of the popularity of Rangers, Brigs, and Assassins I think if you look up the EQ2 population page you will see those classess are not the most popular, or at least not as popular as you might think them to be.  </p></blockquote>While numerically they are not the most popular classes on PvP servers, in T7 PvP they are all you see. The only Q classes I encounter while solo PvPing is rangers and swashies and EVERY group that I find out PvPing has at least one of each. I still can not grasp while SOE gives Ranger, Swash, Assasin, and Brigand the ability to kill people before they know what hit them, plus toss them evac, tracking, and, to top it off, Rangers super sprint. IMO just give rangers a couple heals and eliminate the need for any other classes on PvP servers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Mildavyn]

<p>For the record (again) no class other than bards has in-combat runspeed. Racial bonuses are the only ones other than Selos (which has to be enhanced through AAs to give any in-combat bonuses) that have any effect in-combat.</p><p>I do agree that non-bard scout DPS should be toned down for PvP though.</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove evac from PvP servers, please.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>At the least it needs to be a 4-5 second cast, interuptable by ANYTHING and not castable on the run. Oh, and double the recast. I mean interuptable by ANYTHING. You move, interupted, you take a single point of damage, interupted. A debuff lands on you, interupted.</p></blockquote>Paikis why not just say that you recommend the spell be removed?  The changes a few of you are suggesting would make the spell completely worthless.  People need to realize that there are aspects of this game that they don't like and make things difficult for them and just deal with it.  I know people are going to point out the fact that my main is a ranger and to them I would say that I have many alts and my ranger is the only one who has an evac so yes I've dealt with MANY gank groups following around while I am solo questing.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove evac from PvP servers, please.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>At the least it needs to be a 4-5 second cast, interuptable by ANYTHING and not castable on the run. Oh, and double the recast. I mean interuptable by ANYTHING. You move, interupted, you take a single point of damage, interupted. A debuff lands on you, interupted.</p></blockquote>Paikis why not just say that you recommend the spell be removed?  The changes a few of you are suggesting would make the spell completely worthless.  People need to realize that there are aspects of this game that they don't like and make things difficult for them and just deal with it.  I know people are going to point out the fact that my main is a ranger and to them I would say that I have many alts and my ranger is the only one who has an evac so yes I've dealt with MANY gank groups following around while I am solo questing.</blockquote>but that is how it works for non scout classes?

[liveja]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>People need to realize that there are aspects of this game that they don't like and make things difficult for them and just deal with it.</blockquote><p>If that ever happened, then nobody would ever have anything to whine about, which would eliminate probably half the posts on PvP forums.</p><p>Hmmmmmm. What a great idea.</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove evac from PvP servers, please.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>At the least it needs to be a 4-5 second cast, interuptable by ANYTHING and not castable on the run. Oh, and double the recast. I mean interuptable by ANYTHING. You move, interupted, you take a single point of damage, interupted. A debuff lands on you, interupted.</p></blockquote>Paikis why not just say that you recommend the spell be removed?  The changes a few of you are suggesting would make the spell completely worthless.  People need to realize that there are aspects of this game that they don't like and make things difficult for them and just deal with it.  I know people are going to point out the fact that my main is a ranger and to them I would say that I have many alts and my ranger is the only one who has an evac so yes I've dealt with MANY gank groups following around while I am solo questing.</blockquote>but that is how it works for non scout classes? </blockquote>Huh?  I'm not sure what you are asking here..

[Norrsken]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove evac from PvP servers, please.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>At the least it needs to be a 4-5 second cast, interuptable by ANYTHING and not castable on the run. Oh, and double the recast. I mean interuptable by ANYTHING. You move, interupted, you take a single point of damage, interupted. A debuff lands on you, interupted.</p></blockquote>Paikis why not just say that you recommend the spell be removed?  The changes a few of you are suggesting would make the spell completely worthless.  People need to realize that there are aspects of this game that they don't like and make things difficult for them and just deal with it.  I know people are going to point out the fact that my main is a ranger and to them I would say that I have many alts and my ranger is the only one who has an evac so yes I've dealt with MANY gank groups following around while I am solo questing.</blockquote>but that is how it works for non scout classes? </blockquote>Huh?  I'm not sure what you are asking here..</blockquote>4-5 second cast and easily interrupted evacs are what every non scout evacer deals with. Scouts should too.

[Magius789]

<p>If those changes were made then the spell should be named "teleport" instead of "evac".  </p><p>From the dictionary:</p><p>Evacuate: to remove (persons or things) from a place, as a dangerous place or disaster area, for reasons of safety or protection (which someone would obviously do in a hostile situation, such as being chased by a group of of people where death is almost assured)</p><p>Teleportation: a hypothetical mode of instantaneous transportation; matter is dematerialized at one place and recreated at another</p><p>There are all sorts of things about this game I think are cheap, shady, and unfair but I've learned to deal with it.  From my experience as a scout, healer, tank, or caster each class has things that can happen to them by other classess that seem "not right".  Just do your best to avoid those situations and continue on with your life/quest.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If those changes were made then the spell should be named "teleport" instead of "evac".  </p><p>From the dictionary:</p><p>Evacuate: to remove (persons or things) from a place, as a dangerous place or disaster area, for reasons of safety or protection (which someone would obviously do in a hostile situation, such as being chased by a group of of people where death is almost assured)</p><p>Teleportation: a hypothetical mode of instantaneous transportation; matter is dematerialized at one place and recreated at another</p><p>There are all sorts of things about this game I think are cheap, shady, and unfair but I've learned to deal with it.  From my experience as a scout, healer, tank, or caster each class has things that can happen to them by other classess that seem "not right".  Just do your best to avoid those situations and continue on with your life/quest.</p></blockquote>The spell is actually not named Evac for anyone. Evacuate perhaps, but still not everyone.and it is a teleport. It instantly takes you from one place to another, no matter what you call it.

[Sarkoris]

<p>I will admit to knowing very little about PvP (and caring even less) but evac seems to be an issue of some concern. I presume this is because it allows some classes to flee easier than classes without evac. My question is simple, is this concern from those traveling in groups trying to kill singles and annoyed when they can escape via evac or those seeking even combat.</p><p>If the later is the case then could not a simple mechanism be put in place whereby, if player is attacked by an even force, be it single, group or X2 then evac is disabled. If its a gank attempt (group on single, x 2 on group or less) then evac is enabled. From what I have read of most PvP players they enjoy the combat and would not run from an even combat, but only flee from gank squads where they have virtually no chance of survival.</p><p>I might be way off base but its just a thought.</p><p>On a side not how prevelant is ganking on PvP servers? I honestly don't know what enjoyment can be had from fighting someone who can't beat you due to numbers.</p><p>Sark. </p>

[WasFycksir]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</span></blockquote>Bingo.  Or how about some more fun, evac to a random location.

[Magius789]

<cite>Sarkoris wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I will admit to knowing very little about PvP (and caring even less) but evac seems to be an issue of some concern. I presume this is because it allows some classes to flee easier than classes without evac. My question is simple, is this concern from those traveling in groups trying to kill singles and annoyed when they can escape via evac or those seeking even combat.</p><p>If the later is the case then could not a simple mechanism be put in place whereby, if player is attacked by an even force, be it single, group or X2 then evac is disabled. If its a gank attempt (group on single, x 2 on group or less) then evac is enabled. From what I have read of most PvP players they enjoy the combat and would not run from an even combat, but only flee from gank squads where they have virtually no chance of survival.</p><p>I might be way off base but its just a thought.</p><p>On a side not how prevelant is ganking on PvP servers? I honestly don't know what enjoyment can be had from fighting someone who can't beat you due to numbers.</p><p>Sark. </p></blockquote>You would think that but most people are so concerned about infamy and their title that they will run if they feel like they will loose fame.  People SHOULD PvP to test their skills and try to beat their opponent however most people seem to do it because they think having a higher title in a game makes them so much better than others.

[yohann koldheart]

<p>ok ill agree to them getting rid of evac, but only if they remove healers from healing, tanks from taunting,wizzies from nuking on pvp servers as well.</p><p>you need to stop your crying when ever a ranger kills you.</p><p>evac is a skill that EVERY class can get one way or another,and if 60% of the players would unlock from t2 you would see more of other classes in t7 pvping.</p><p>and to the [Removed for Content] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p>

[convict]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">ok ill agree to them getting rid of evac, but only if they remove healers from healing, tanks from taunting,wizzies from nuking on pvp servers as well.</span></b></p><p>you need to stop your crying when ever a ranger kills you.</p><p>evac is a skill that EVERY class can get one way or another,and if 60% of the players would unlock from t2 you would see more of other classes in t7 pvping.</p><p>and to the [I cannot control my vocabulary] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p></blockquote>LOL.. So according to your post, evac is what scouts are there to do? Tanks are there to taunt and protect thier group, wizards have LOW mitigation because they are there to nuke (dps), thats the trade off CASTERS MAKE (even though scouts dont), Healers are there to heal, and you say, scouts are there to evac?

[Norrsken]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">ok ill agree to them getting rid of evac, but only if they remove healers from healing, tanks from taunting,wizzies from nuking on pvp servers as well.</span></b></p><p>you need to stop your crying when ever a ranger kills you.</p><p>evac is a skill that EVERY class can get one way or another,and if 60% of the players would unlock from t2 you would see more of other classes in t7 pvping.</p><p>and to the [I cannot control my vocabulary] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p></blockquote>LOL.. So according to your post, evac is what scouts are there to do? Tanks are there to taunt and protect thier group, wizards have LOW mitigation because they are there to nuke (dps), thats the trade off CASTERS MAKE (even though scouts dont), Healers are there to heal, and you say, scouts are there to evac?</blockquote>Had a great laugh at that one too. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> them since scouts are on pvp servers to evac, lets just remove all that dps they are not supposed to have. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tae]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>and to the [I cannot control my vocabulary] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p></blockquote>Yes but rangers start off a long way away, so they can sprint off without us having a chance to catch them. Anyway I don't want evac removed, I like being able to get away from groups of people who're rushing me. But at the same time I hate that if I come up against any sort of scout, they get to dictate when and where the fight happens.

[toenukl]

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok ill agree to them getting rid of evac, but only if they remove healers from healing, tanks from taunting,wizzies from nuking on pvp servers as well.</p></blockquote>Well, get rid of evac and scouts still have tracking, a very very useful PvP tool that no one else has at all. So this is irrelevant rly.<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>and to the [I cannot control my vocabulary] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p></blockquote>Love the name calling, been lots of it today on the forums. Super sprint gets Rangers away from a fight even if there evac is already used up. 100% of the time if you do get the jump on a ranger, which is hard for a non tracking class, they run away and do it successfully, either w/ evac or super sprint.

[Dracot]

<cite>Kulras wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wow, the crying!  Stop please!!!</p><p>   This ability allows me to PvP when I want, which is great.  I can go out, PvE, Farm stuff for crafting, and not worry to much about being ganked.  Then when I am more prepared I stand my ground and fight the fair fight.  IMHO, everyone should have evak to make it equal footing, but getting rid of it is just a dumb idea.</p><p>While we're at it, add invis to all classes too...being able to exploit PvE encounters for some classes but not others is just lame.  So in summary...</p><p>Invis & Evac for all...Fair enough?</p></blockquote><p>Oh ok i get it you wnt pvp only when you feel its time?  God forbid your ganked from 35meters out, with zero chance of escape.  Invis is available to all but what 2 classes?  maybe 4 tops?  Plenty of potions on the broker that don't require farming for roots water and fertilizaer or uses up all your status to get one charge of evac.  </p><p>Typical response from a unskilled player.</p>

[Bloodfa]

Remove it?  Ummm, no, I don't think so.  Remove perma-immunity upon evac?  Hell yes.  Remove perma-immunity all together.  Want to increase the timer from 15 minutes to 30, that wouldn't bother me either.  My Monk gets Invis and feign death, but not too many people gripe about that.  Why is that, anyway?  And before anybody brings it up ... nobody playing a Swashy takes that end-line ability. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Oh, a little heads-up for those that don't know or have forgotten, but lots of things can counter stealth.  Sonic vision, totems, goggles, Druid shape-change buffs, Snow-Filled Steps spell ... fairly sizeable list and there are others to add to it as well. 

[Dracot]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</blockquote>Thats fine and all, but then you got summoners calsses who require much more time to cast our pets and buffs after a death.  So removing immunity won't work very well.  i can see it now, I'm buffing while 5 rangers surround the spawn to gain more fame they didn't earn.

[Dracot]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If those changes were made then the spell should be named "teleport" instead of "evac".  </p><p>From the dictionary:</p><p>Evacuate: to remove (persons or things) from a place, as a dangerous place or disaster area, for reasons of safety or protection (which someone would obviously do in a hostile situation, such as being chased by a group of of people where death is almost assured)</p><p>Teleportation: a hypothetical mode of instantaneous transportation; matter is dematerialized at one place and recreated at another</p><p>There are all sorts of things about this game I think are cheap, shady, and unfair but I've learned to deal with it.  From my experience as a scout, healer, tank, or caster each class has things that can happen to them by other classess that seem "not right".  Just do your best to avoid those situations and continue on with your life/quest.</p></blockquote>When you die in a split second to a ranger you see coming, maybe you will begin to see the light.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</blockquote>Thats fine and all, but then you got summoners calsses who require much more time to cast our pets and buffs after a death.  So removing immunity won't work very well.  i can see it now, I'm buffing while 5 rangers surround the spawn to gain more fame they didn't earn.</blockquote>So remove Scout Evac, but leave in perma-immunity?  Isn't that a bit onesided?

[Dracot]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">ok ill agree to them getting rid of evac, but only if they remove healers from healing, tanks from taunting,wizzies from nuking on pvp servers as well.</span></b></p><p>you need to stop your crying when ever a ranger kills you.</p><p>evac is a skill that EVERY class can get one way or another,and if 60% of the players would unlock from t2 you would see more of other classes in t7 pvping.</p><p>and to the [I cannot control my vocabulary] that says rangers get supersprint, you need to get the facts before you post your nonsence sprint does nothing in combat,and if you got enhance pathfind ,jboots,and fitness aa maxed sprint does nothing but drain your power out of combat.</p></blockquote>LOL.. So according to your post, evac is what scouts are there to do? Tanks are there to taunt and protect thier group, wizards have LOW mitigation because they are there to nuke (dps), thats the trade off CASTERS MAKE (even though scouts dont), Healers are there to heal, and you say, scouts are there to evac?</blockquote>Ya know if we wanna hit a lore of what a scout is supposed to do, you wouldn't see a general ranger ever.  Scout = SCOUTING = locating, and searching.  Wizard, necro, conj, warlock = DAMAGE, yet this isn't the case in eq2 pvp, so you scouts get every skill in the book, and evac on top, along with the highest front end dps in game, and when someone requests a BALANCING medium you all [Removed for Content] your pants cause not one of the rangers ive ever seen on venny seems to stick around when a true dps class gets the upper hand.

[Dracot]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</blockquote>Thats fine and all, but then you got summoners calsses who require much more time to cast our pets and buffs after a death.  So removing immunity won't work very well.  i can see it now, I'm buffing while 5 rangers surround the spawn to gain more fame they didn't earn.</blockquote>So remove Scout Evac, but leave in perma-immunity?  Isn't that a bit onesided?</blockquote>Defending t7 scout dps vs pure dps classes is a bit onesided also but we don't see anyone crying.

[Echgar]

There is some decent discussion in here, but if you don't all cease taking shots at each other, we'll need to close this discussion.  There is no need for the accusations of "crying", "whining", and other insults being flung around here by some.You are welcome to disagree with each other on the forums, but please keep your comments constructive and respectful.  Leave the PvP for in-game.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</blockquote>Thats fine and all, but then you got summoners calsses who require much more time to cast our pets and buffs after a death.  So removing immunity won't work very well.  i can see it now, I'm buffing while 5 rangers surround the spawn to gain more fame they didn't earn.</blockquote>So remove Scout Evac, but leave in perma-immunity?  Isn't that a bit onesided?</blockquote>Defending t7 scout dps vs pure dps classes is a bit onesided also but we don't see anyone crying.</blockquote>On the contrary, we constantly see see casters able to oneshot somebody for 5k+ crying about getting smacked around when somebody closes in on them, like a Scout, or burns through their manashield.  But hey, we haven't had any classes get nerfed in an entire update, so let's get that nerfbat swinging.And if that's going to happen, make sure that Brigands get that Band of Thugs taken out, as they're always managing to kill me just before I can take out the Brig.  See how fast it gets turned around?

[Amphibia]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b></span> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? </blockquote>Why not just get rid of permanent immunity from evac'ing. Permanent immunity was added to prevent griefing after people died not to make groups with scouts or others with evac unkillable. After evac'ing they should get a 30 sec count down.</blockquote>Thats fine and all, but then you got summoners calsses who require much more time to cast our pets and buffs after a death.  So removing immunity won't work very well.  i can see it now, I'm buffing while 5 rangers surround the spawn to gain more fame they didn't earn.</blockquote>I'm one of those slow rebuff classes. If I could choose, I'd want 1 minute immunity after revival. No permanent immunity, because I hate that concept. Just enough time to buff up. After evac, a 30 seconds countdown should be more than sufficient. I have no idea why the devs thought that giving evac'ers full, permanent immunity was a great idea. It really isn't.

[Azol]

<p><b>Evac should be left as it is (with one exception, see below)</b>. I do not see how someone escaping a certain death from a group/raid can hurt your ego or ruin your game experience.</p><p>One thing I would like SOE to implement. <b>One should not gain permanent immunity after evac</b>. Immunity is not very realistic mechanic, but they surely can stick with 30 sec immunity after zoning/evacing (evacing is still zoning since you see the loading screen).</p><p>SOE gave us abilities/spells in EQ2. They should not remove half of those just to please someone. It will displease the rest of population.</p>

[Amphibia]

Many of those abilities were in the game long before the PvP servers, but that doesn't necessarily mean they fit in perfectly. Some abilities might be a tad overpowered and cause imbalance between the different classes. Evac is such an ability, espesially with the way the title system works. This is not about my group being unable to kill that solo scout before he evacs, personally I'm usually solo. No, it's about the solo scout - who also has track and can see me coming from a mile away, and how he evacs every time he doesn't get the jump. It's so easy with that evac button, isn't it? When he <i>does</i> get the jump, however - I am usually the one to die first. And there is no easy way out for me, since I don't have any evac. And against a group, I go down faster than a snowball in a crematorium. But that's ok. As I said, I'd rather see the evac ability removed than getting it myself. So, as you can see... one aspect is the imbalance between the classes. As mentioned, you lose fame by dying in this game. Why do you think most of the high titles are players with an evac ability? Another aspect is how it hinders PvP. I'm getting really tired of how easy it is to get away in this game. Click one button and *poof*... what is up with that? And then you can sit there and be untouchable for as long as you want. No wonder people call this so-called PvP- game "Everrun"....

[Krakelkr]

<p>Many (most) suggestions here are pure wishful thinking...</p><p>I suggest evac to have its recast increased to 30-60 minutes. If people wanna stay in perma immunity for 60 minutes then let them.</p>

[Kulras]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remove it?  Ummm, no, I don't think so.  Remove perma-immunity upon evac?  Hell yes.  Remove perma-immunity all together.  Want to increase the timer from 15 minutes to 30, that wouldn't bother me either.  My Monk gets Invis and feign death, but not too many people gripe about that.  Why is that, anyway?  And before anybody brings it up ... nobody playing a Swashy takes that end-line ability. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Oh, a little heads-up for those that don't know or have forgotten, but lots of things can counter stealth.  Sonic vision, totems, goggles, Druid shape-change buffs, Snow-Filled Steps spell ... fairly sizeable list and there are others to add to it as well.  </blockquote>For what it's worth, I hate your feign death ability.  It's a terrible way to "cleanse" everything done to you.  And kick us down, blurr our vision, we root/snare, you feign and keep going as if nothing happened?  Yeah, a bit overpowered but hey, I'm all for adding that to all classes too ><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Amphibia]

.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>not one of the rangers ive ever seen on venny seems to stick around when a true dps class gets the upper hand.</blockquote><p>The ones that stick around are the ones with good gear who know what they're doing. It is very difficult to kill them when they engage you, and impossible (for me) to kill them when they decide to just run away.</p><p>The last time I played (about 2 weeks ago) there were 3 types of people I encountered over a 4 hour PvP session.</p><p>1. Solo scouts in KoS. Thats it, no groups, no duos, only solos... and they were all, every one of em, (non-bard) scouts.</p><p>2. Groups of level 57-59 toons sitting on the SS docks.</p><p>3. The good fights. There were exactly 3 fights which I would consider 'good' in 4 hours. The first was me (70 Troub) vs 70 Pally and 70 Warlock. Was a good fight, Pally died while warlock was mezzed, then had to run to get away from manashield. Pally came back and killed me before I could finish the warlock (stupid resists!) The second fight was me vs a 70 monk. He had the upper hand at first, but when things went south after I started doing my kiting-dance, what do you know? That's right, 3 greys appear out of no where and suddenly I'm dead. The third one was against a swashbuckler, one of those solo scouts in KoS. We had several fights, 6+ atleast. They were mostly fun, even when I'd killed him the first few times and he kept coming back... once he got ahead on fame though, I never saw him again.</p><p>*MY* suggested changes:</p><p>1. Remove titles. Not a revamp, not a change, just get rid of them. No matter what you base your title system on, be it fame, kills, KvD ratios, anything at all. There will always be people who think that they're all that and a bag of chips, and there will be people (like me) who think those titles are meaningless and simply provide people with an incentive to NOT fight.</p><p>2. Change the /pvp command to only show kills. Have it show; solo kills, group kills, x2 kills, x3 kills, x4 kills and city kills. Don't show deaths. People who want to know how many PvP deaths, and their KvD ratios can find them out at EQ2Players. Making people have to alt-tab out to check those 'bad' stats will mean they check them less often, and they'll (hopefully) be more inclined to fight instead of running away at the first sign of an even fight. Possitive reinforcement. If they fight, they'll get kills and their kill count will go up!</p><p>3. Any PvP interaction puts both parties into combat. If you take damage, you're into PvP combat, if you are snared, into combat you go. If you take damage, or a debuff, or cause damage or use a debuff or anything at all, either on or from another player, you both go into PvP combat. This is another way of encouraging combat. You can run away, but all the person has to do is hit you once every 30 seconds and you're stuck there. May as well take a shot at killing them. After all, you can't see your death count, you don't have a title to defend anymore, why wouldn't you engage? For everyone complaining about evac, this would (mostly) fix your problem. All you have to do is hit someone with a quick-casting spell, or a ranged auto-attack, and their evac doesn't work.</p><p>4.Faction gear. Change the starting faction to -50k (read the whole thing before you comment!) and give the first set of PvP gear at -45k. Then every 5k after that, give another set of gear. This would allow people to get into the PvP gear faster, and remove one of the 'excuses' that people use as justification for sitting at level 17 and killing n00bies all day. I'm not saying stop them from doing it, but this is the most often used reason for why. I myself have a level 15 Necromancer and the ammount of faction required to get the first set of PvP gear is prohibitively high... Levelling off PvP only, from level 14, my swashbuckler was level 32 before he could use the level 20 gear. No one who doesn't lock is ever going to get that gear at a level where it'll be useful.</p><p>I also had some changes which I would LIKE to see for some classes, but since they'll never happen, and it'd only cause a forum fire to break out, I wont post em <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Basically my ideas are to remove all the negative things that result from PvP deaths, and make the rewards easier to get as you level. Obviously you're never going to come up with a PvP system that everyone is happy with, and I'll be shocked if any of my changes are actually used, but a guy can dream.</p>

[Amphibia]

Good suggestions, Paikis <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Statewrestler101]

Ok if they remove titles a HUGE incentive to even pvp at all will be removed... secondly if you hate getting ganked now WAIT till you get into combat if someone snares you... ULTIMATE GANKING EVERYWHERE... Not even a poor guy running from an x2 will be ablel to run... No fair fights will ever occure... Right now i would say if you got rid of evac get rid of rangers... If you dont like not having evac that much or think its so unfair go to a blue server or make a dman evacing class dont whine... If you carry around see invis/stealth totems you should not be getting ganked if you are smart...

[Amphibia]

<cite>Statewrestler101 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok if they remove titles a HUGE incentive to even pvp at all will be removed... secondly if you hate getting ganked now WAIT till you get into combat if someone snares you... ULTIMATE GANKING EVERYWHERE... Not even a poor guy running from an x2 will be ablel to run... No fair fights will ever occure... Right now i would say if you got rid of evac get rid of rangers... If you dont like not having evac that much or think its so unfair go to a blue server or make a dman evacing class dont whine... If you carry around see invis/stealth totems you should not be getting ganked if you are smart... </blockquote>Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.

[Necodem]

<p>Otherwise put the evac on 30min recast + 30s immune after doing it + 1min unable to zone out or 1min in pvp combat.</p><p>For the fame just put it off, or makes titles are based on the numbers kills. Adds some news expensive system reward for pvp ( hard to get).</p>

[Azol]

<p>By the way, EVERYONE can purchase an evac item form City PVP merchant... and it's insta-cast.</p><p>DO NOT REMOVE evac ability and do not nerf it's cast time. Just remove permanent immunity</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Statewrestler101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>If you dont like not having evac that much or think its so unfair go to a blue server or make a dman evacing class dont whine... If you carry around see invis/stealth totems you should not be getting ganked if you are smart... </blockquote><p>Read what you wrote, are you seriously telling me to use totems?Take another look at my class buddy... that's right, I'm a Troubador. Which is a scout. Which has evac. I also solo almost exclusively. I stand by my suggested changes. Or failing those, nerf or remove evac. </p><p>If you don't like the idea of having to PvP that much, or think its so unfair go to a blue server dont whine. Fight or die. Quit being a bunch of carebears, get off your pier on the docks and go out and play. I promise you wont miss your titles after 5 minutes.</p><p>This is a game, games are supposed to be 'fun'. How on earth can you possibly be having fun when you run from anything that threatens your precious titles? Fighting even or harder fights gets the blood pumping! And yes, you should be FORCED into PvP combat. You rolled on a PvP server, you knew what you were signing on for. Fight or die!</p><p>Grow a spine, forget your titles and go PvP.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Azol@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>By the way, EVERYONE can purchase an evac item form City PVP merchant... and it's insta-cast.</p><p>DO NOT REMOVE evac ability and do not nerf it's cast time. Just remove permanent immunity</p></blockquote>Did you check how much it costs? 100k status and 12g each, they are lore,  can only be cast once every hour and they don't take you to a place withing the zone - no they take you all the way back to your recall point in Qeynos or Freeport. Oh, and it is not at all insta-cast, as you call it. It takes several seconds to cast it, and is very easy to interrupt. If you had ever bought one and tried for yourself, you would have known that. It pretty much sucks compared to the spell/skill version. It is so useless, it shouldn't even be counted as an alternative. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />This discussion wasn't really about the unfairness, though that is also a side of it. The main problem is the effect this ability has on PvP in general. Evac every 15 minutes means in practice evac all the [Removed for Content] time. And the title system just encourages rapid use of it. Do you call that PvP? Well, I certainly don't. I can only speak for myself of course, but I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.

[Necodem]

<p>The question is why do you evac? </p><p>The real problem is not really evac, but mostly the fame/title system. So we need get a new title/fame or any other form of other reward ( some people need a goal for pvp, and for now fame is one of those ) that doesn't makes people be afraid of dying in pvp.</p>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Statewrestler101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>If you dont like not having evac that much or think its so unfair go to a blue server or make a dman evacing class dont whine... If you carry around see invis/stealth totems you should not be getting ganked if you are smart... </blockquote><p>Read what you wrote, are you seriously telling me to use totems?Take another look at my class buddy... that's right, I'm a Troubador. Which is a scout. Which has evac. I also solo almost exclusively. I stand by my suggested changes. Or failing those, nerf or remove evac. </p><p>If you don't like the idea of having to PvP that much, or think its so unfair go to a blue server dont whine. Fight or die. Quit being a bunch of carebears, get off your pier on the docks and go out and play. I promise you wont miss your titles after 5 minutes.</p><p>This is a game, games are supposed to be 'fun'. How on earth can you possibly be having fun when you run from anything that threatens your precious titles? Fighting even or harder fights gets the blood pumping! And yes, you should be FORCED into PvP combat. You rolled on a PvP server, you knew what you were signing on for. Fight or die!</p><p>Grow a spine, forget your titles and go PvP.</p></blockquote>Keep titles, remove fame and title loss from deaths. Change title gains to ammount of kills and elevate it to high ammounts of numbers. Making the incentive to fight, or gank however you see it greater. Its not the fact that people care about dieing, they care about the title. Because if they die, they have a chance of losing something they've worked for. Just take away title loss and change the way titles are gained and i believe we're golden.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote>Keep titles, remove fame and title loss from deaths. Change title gains to ammount of kills and elevate it to high ammounts of numbers. Making the incentive to fight, or gank however you see it greater. Its not the fact that people care about dieing, they care about the title. Because if they die, they have a chance of losing something they've worked for. Just take away title loss and change the way titles are gained and i believe we're golden.</blockquote>That would work as well. I still would prefer removing titles altogether though.

[rvbarton]

<p>/agree</p><p> Remove evac completely, or make it a MUCH longer, INTERRUPTABLE, cast time and a 60 minute recast timer.</p>

[Azol]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.</blockquote><p>So what? Even if I will have my title stripped off (Destroyer at the moment, never was higher as I solo too much) I will gladly will be using evac as I simply DO NOT WANT TO DIE to groups. Period.</p><p>The main mistake is your way of thinking: "They got something I do not have, so remove it" Let us remove evac, track, stealth, taunts, heh, Manashield and so on. Let us keep every fight simple: press "1", press "2", press "3". Why we should bother tweaking things a bit - we can just remove them instead!!! 90% of posts are displaying this mentality.</p><p>Make a game that even a fool can play and only fools will be playing it.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Azol@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.</blockquote><p>So what? Even if I will have my title stripped off (Destroyer at the moment, never was higher as I solo too much) I will gladly will be using evac as I simply DO NOT WANT TO DIE to groups. Period.</p><p>The main mistake is your way of thinking: "They got something I do not have, so remove it" Let us remove evac, track, stealth, taunts, heh, Manashield and so on. Let us keep every fight simple: press "1", press "2", press "3". Why we should bother tweaking things a bit - we can just remove them instead!!! 90% of posts are displaying this mentality.</p><p>Make a game that even a fool can play and only fools will be playing it.</p></blockquote><p>So what are we supposed to do when a full grp rushes us ( fury here ). I guess we have to die? cool.</p><p>And how often does a single scout evac on a 1 vs 1? Sure i grp pvp, but i also pvp alot solo and whenever i get the chance to jump a scout (which is insanely rarely due their ability to track people) they just evac away.</p><p>Please Sony - Remove Evac and immunity out of the game.</p><p>70 fury </p><p>70 necro</p><p>65 Swashbuckler (!!!)</p><p>55 Bruiser</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Azol@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.</blockquote><p>So what? Even if I will have my title stripped off (Destroyer at the moment, never was higher as I solo too much) I will gladly will be using evac as I simply DO NOT WANT TO DIE to groups. Period.</p><p>The main mistake is your way of thinking: "They got something I do not have, so remove it" Let us remove evac, track, stealth, taunts, heh, Manashield and so on. Let us keep every fight simple: press "1", press "2", press "3". Why we should bother tweaking things a bit - we can just remove them instead!!! 90% of posts are displaying this mentality.</p><p>Make a game that even a fool can play and only fools will be playing it.</p></blockquote>Jesus Christ, where did I say all that? I suggested they remove evac, and I think I tried to give a very detailed explanation as to why I think it would be a good idea. I never suggested removing manashield, taunts, stealth or anything else. Perhaps you should calm down a little now? Or better yet, actually READ the posts you are responding to before you lash out in anger.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azol@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.</blockquote><p>So what? Even if I will have my title stripped off (Destroyer at the moment, never was higher as I solo too much) I will gladly will be using evac as I simply DO NOT WANT TO DIE to groups. Period.</p><p>The main mistake is your way of thinking: "They got something I do not have, so remove it" Let us remove evac, track, stealth, taunts, heh, Manashield and so on. Let us keep every fight simple: press "1", press "2", press "3". Why we should bother tweaking things a bit - we can just remove them instead!!! 90% of posts are displaying this mentality.</p><p>Make a game that even a fool can play and only fools will be playing it.</p></blockquote><p>So what are we supposed to do when a full grp rushes us ( fury here ). I guess we have to die? cool.</p><p>And how often does a single scout evac on a 1 vs 1? Sure i grp pvp, but i also pvp alot solo and whenever i get the chance to jump a scout (which is insanely rarely due their ability to track people) they just evac away.</p><p>Please Sony - Remove Evac and immunity out of the game.</p><p>70 fury </p><p>70 necro</p><p>65 Swashbuckler (!!!)</p><p>55 Bruiser</p></blockquote>If Evac should go, why should root and Pact of the Cheetah stay?  Removal of the reasons people run from even fights would be a better fix.  Are you going to stay if you see somebody coming from waaaay off and the numbers aren't in your favor, or are you going to hit Pact and beat feet to the zoneline?  I don't have Pact, so I'll Evac.  2 vs 1 at even levels but very uneven titles doesn't make me want to stick around to pony up tokens for the other side. 

[Azol]

<p>Sorry everyone. I have cooled down.</p><p>No point in arguing...</p><p>ADD instead of REMOVE... thet will be wise thing to do. We need more variety to the game.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Know what would really improve things, and bring us closer to the EQ2 community as a whole?</p><p>Let's just remove pvp from pvp servers.</p><p>there.. fixed.</p>

[Necodem]

nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.

[Frozenshade]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Know what would really improve things, and bring us closer to the EQ2 community as a whole?</p><p>Let's just remove pvp from pvp servers.</p><p>there.. fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Foam bats in place of weps so no one ever gets pked imo. </p><p>Foam bats!</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf nazies that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go?

[Rob626]

I would LOVE to have an immunity timer for evacers. I would camp evac points all day every day. I'd quit work and stay home just to camp evac points. "What's that Mr. Scout? Down to 1/2 life and thought you escaped the gank squad? Not mentally prepared for a fight? Didn't get a jump on your prey? Awwww. Here. Take some Obliteration and a full serving of Lay Waste for your pain. How's it feel to die to a solo guardian?" Oooo ... I get all tingly just thinking about it. Bah, probably just wind up giving them my tokens anyway. I hate scouts. Yes, even bards. Majo, 70 Guardian of Venekor

[Darkor]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azol@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly dislike that people can just click a button and magically disappear whenever they feel like it in a PvP game.</blockquote><p>So what? Even if I will have my title stripped off (Destroyer at the moment, never was higher as I solo too much) I will gladly will be using evac as I simply DO NOT WANT TO DIE to groups. Period.</p><p>The main mistake is your way of thinking: "They got something I do not have, so remove it" Let us remove evac, track, stealth, taunts, heh, Manashield and so on. Let us keep every fight simple: press "1", press "2", press "3". Why we should bother tweaking things a bit - we can just remove them instead!!! 90% of posts are displaying this mentality.</p><p>Make a game that even a fool can play and only fools will be playing it.</p></blockquote><p>So what are we supposed to do when a full grp rushes us ( fury here ). I guess we have to die? cool.</p><p>And how often does a single scout evac on a 1 vs 1? Sure i grp pvp, but i also pvp alot solo and whenever i get the chance to jump a scout (which is insanely rarely due their ability to track people) they just evac away.</p><p>Please Sony - Remove Evac and immunity out of the game.</p><p>70 fury </p><p>70 necro</p><p>65 Swashbuckler (!!!)</p><p>55 Bruiser</p></blockquote>If Evac should go, why should root and Pact of the Cheetah stay?  Removal of the reasons people run from even fights would be a better fix.  Are you going to stay if you see somebody coming from waaaay off and the numbers aren't in your favor, or are you going to hit Pact and beat feet to the zoneline?  I don't have Pact, so I'll Evac.  2 vs 1 at even levels but very uneven titles doesn't make me want to stick around to pony up tokens for the other side.  </blockquote><p>Aint this funny?</p><p>Cheetah not only does NOT work in combat. It also puts you in combat. So can i have your evac removed please?</p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm probably going to get flamed all the way to hell and back for this, but so be it. I'm getting really tired of this ability now, which is nothing but an easy exit for the classes that need it the least. Those classes are scouts, wardens, wizards and shadowknights. The scout version of evac is also particulary difficult to interrupt, and all of them can be cast every 15 minutes. In practice, this means those classes have evac available almost all the time when out PvP'ïng. Espesially since <b>evac also grants permanent immunity</b> - so if you don't like to PvP without it, just wait 15 minutes and it's back up again! For some classes, the timer can be shortened to 10 minutes with AA. Amazing, huh? While other classes often require a lot of skill and smarts to get away from PK'ers, someone with an evac skill can just push one button and be spirited away to a safe spot where they can stand in immunity for as long as they wish. I can't think of anything in this game that is a bigger PvP killer than this, and it makes things just way too easy for those classes. Just look at the numbers, why are there so many brigands, swashies and rangers really? Perhaps the answer is not to remove evac entirely, but make it much longer to cast, significantly longer recast (1 hour perhaps?) and far easier to interrupt. Then it can still be used in PvE like before, as long as nothing is beating on the evac'er. I just think it is way too convinient and easy to use in its current form, espesially on a PvP server.I'm making this post because I'm sick of that thing now. Feel free to disagree, but I think the PvP servers would be better off without evac's. And maybe this is one of the reasons tier 2 PvP is so popular - nobody have the [Removed for Content] ability yet. </blockquote><p>I agree!  You know how much the uber twinked alts -hate- when their helpless prey can escape?  SOE needs to correct this imbalance immediately.  It's ruining PvP for the noob gankers, and we certainly can't have any of that.</p><p>/sarcasm</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>if you'd come out and said: </p><p>Hey, evac is really inconvenient for me.  Only troubs, dirges, rangers, assassins, swashies, brigands, wardens, shadowknights, wizards, worshipers of the right god, people who know how to get an escape root, and people who purchase the right pvp item from the vendor can get it.. and i'd like to see it addressed.  It stinks that only 9/24 (more than 1/3) of the existing classes get it, and that's unfair.</p><p>Perhaps Evac should go back to not working for those engaged in pvp combat, the way it used to be after EoF.</p><p>Perhaps evac should not give permanent immunity.</p><p>These are TWEAKS, suggestions, feedback.  Hell, i agree with them, and they'd improve pvp w/o whining about it and asking for the face of pvp to be changed for all tiers.</p><p>But saying "Remove evac from pvp servers, please", is requesting a NERF.</p><p>Sorry.. it is what it is.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aint this funny?</p><p>Cheetah not only does NOT work in combat. It also puts you in combat. So can i have your evac removed please?</p></blockquote><p>Correct me if i'm wrong, please, but cheetah only puts you in combat and fails to work if you've been ATTACKED and an effect that cheetah cures has been put on you or one of your group members.</p><p>You can cheetah all day long if you don't have any effects on you or your group, and haven't been attacked in pvp.</p><p>but with a warden sow, peerless predator, and the movement speed from KoS, furies can pretty much run at 100% all the time anyway.. so what's the whine about?</p>

[Chaosfairie27]

<p>Sorry, I haven't read the whole post, so forgive me if someone stated this already, but when you look at it from a role-playing point of view, scouts and evacs make perfect sense.  They are a "sneaky class", they are supposed to be cunning and sly and be able to slip away from their enemies.  I just started playing a Dirge, she is lvl 33 now, I think.  If I am out questing/xp'ing and I am killing mobs and then someone attacks me that's at least 4 levels higher than I am, depending on the zone, of course I am going to evac before engaging in combat with them.  I technically cannot heal myself since I am not a healer, I know there are potions and such and one of the spells we have has a small heal on it.  I don't have a pet to attack them and keep them busy while I finish off the mob I am fighting.  So what am I to do when right from the start the fight is unbalanced?  Say what you want, but makes sense to me.  And no, this is not in defense of those who are facing a fair fight and evac before engaging in combat just not to lose a title.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>But ... without the whining, what would people do?</p><p>"I can heal, but I can't track and they always find me, so remove it."</p><p>"I can nuke, but I can't evac, so remove it."</p><p>"I'm the king of DPS, but Manashield thwarts me if they see me first, so remove it."</p><p>"I'm great at buffing others, but can't tank, so nerf everybody else until I can fight like a 'zerker."</p><p>"I've got Harm Touch, so ... wait, nevermind, I can kill everything within 35 meters and my choice of deity gives me an evac, thanks guys."  What good's a PvP thread without a shot at SK's? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>The problem is that when somebody loses to a group, the group's at fault for killing them when they have an advantage.  When somebody loses to a player that has different abilities, the other toon's overpowered.  When somebody flees from combat against a superior force, they're a coward.  When somebody uses a deity ability, they're lame and cheating.  More than anything else, there is a distinct pattern of "It's not my fault I lost, therefore it must be a busted game mechanic."  If you play a support class, guess what?  You should be playing the role of a support class.  If you play a melee-based class, the ranged attackers have a distinct advantage.  If you play a distance fighter and let somebody close on you, you're going to be in trouble.  I have a friend that insists on playing a Ranger.  Except he likes to close in and try to act like a Swashbuckler.  He dies a lot.  Quite simply, he should be playing a Swashbuckler, but insists on trying to turn a Corvette into an F550 with a dual-axle and a tow hitch.  If it's not working for you the way you play, maybe you should try another class, or at least a change in tactics.</p><p>And Boz, you're dead-on with those spells.  If you get tagged and then try to outrun them, you're hosed.  Same with sprinting.  Both will put you in combat.  You're actually better of not sprinting and just hoping that they run out of steam and you resist roots and snares before they catch you.  Also, evaccing after you've been hit but without you doing anything hostile will put you in combat at the evac point.  Which has accounted for a couple of my "What the ....?!?!" moments</p>

[Amphibia]

There is nothing like a controversial title, you know. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />*sigh*And how many times does it need to be said: Evac roots and escape lockets can <i>not</i> be counted as equal alternatives to having evac as a skill. They really aren't. The evac root require a crapload of farming, and the escape locket cost 100k faction and 12g each. Ever bought one yourself? In addition to that, it is lore, can only be cast one every 60 minutes, easy to interrupt, cannot be cast on the run - and it sends you all the way back to Qeynos/Freeport. Also, if you should be pulled into combat by something outside your control,  it will still consume the locket and your 100k faction - but without sending you home. However, I'll admit it. I'm tired of having people evac from me every single time they don't get the jump. I'm tired of seeing them sitting in immunity until they feel it's safe to come back out again (usually after 15 minutes when their evac button is refreshed), I'm tired of the class imbalance and I'm tired of all the running. I bet I'm not the only one....

[Killque]

<p>I wish people would realize that reading a post with very little structure and just an enormous block of text is more than difficult. Do yoursleves a favor and space stuff out if you wouldnt mind. Not only will the people here on the forums who are reading your post (and I would bet some skip over it due to the fact that it hurts their heads to read) but it would help you in any future career as well as I am sure even your boss or co-workers would much rather read text that has been broken into some sort of structure. A few sentences at a time is perfect, but when your text starts to resemble a high school book report you may want to rethink things. I cant exactly say that I am not guilty of said crime myself, and I need to be more coherant as well. I hope by this point you have realized what im talking about and maybe, just maybe you even needed to get a piece of paper out to help you read this line by line. And just an fyi, I wont be proof reading this for errors because just even typing this is giving me a headache.But as to your post, I would most certainly agree that evac could be removed, however it does have its uses. I did like someones suggestion that stated evac would be disabled should the odds be out of wack, ie a group vs a solo or a x2 vs a group, else if the odds are more even, solo on solo, group on group, x2 on x2 etc that then and only then would evac be eliminated. I mean, you really cant argue against that point without coming off sounding like a noob ganker. If you reallya re complaining that evac should be removed so that your group can gank the soloist you should hang your head in shame. However, I shall give you the benifit of the doubt here and assume you mean the fair fights, people just run like babies, which I know to be true also, and in such a case, I would agree that evac should be avaliable. Another interesting thought, is the in combat removal of evac, what if they brought it back, so that it is only avaliable on the unfair fights. So lets say your in an even fight 1v1, and half way through a group rolls up and starts beating on you. Well at that point, evac should immediately become avaliable and if for some reason your able to get it off, all the better. I wonder what you all think about that idea, the only problem, is that it is completely burried in a block of text and if you have even made it this far you are a better man/woman than I. Hope this helps.</p><p>Killque</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I agree!  You know how much the uber twinked alts -hate- when their helpless prey can escape?  SOE needs to correct this imbalance immediately.  It's ruining PvP for the noob gankers, and we certainly can't have any of that.</p><p>/sarcasm</p></blockquote>Eh, do you know what you are talking about here? I don't think so. It's not about noob ganking, ok? The most rapid evac'ers in T7 are high titled scouts. They can hardly be counted as noobs.....

[Amphibia]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wish people would realize that reading a post with very little structure and just an enormous block of text is more than difficult. Do yoursleves a favor and space stuff out if you wouldnt mind. Not only will the people here on the forums who are reading your post (and I would bet some skip over it due to the fact that it hurts their heads to read) but it would help you in any future career as well as I am sure even your boss or co-workers would much rather read text that has been broken into some sort of structure. A few sentences at a time is perfect, but when your text starts to resemble a high school book report you may want to rethink things. I cant exactly say that I am not guilty of said crime myself, and I need to be more coherant as well. I hope by this point you have realized what im talking about and maybe, just maybe you even needed to get a piece of paper out to help you read this line by line. And just an fyi, I wont be proof reading this for errors because just even typing this is giving me a headache.But as to your post, I would most certainly agree that evac could be removed, however it does have its uses. I did like someones suggestion that stated evac would be disabled should the odds be out of wack, ie a group vs a solo or a x2 vs a group, else if the odds are more even, solo on solo, group on group, x2 on x2 etc that then and only then would evac be eliminated. I mean, you really cant argue against that point without coming off sounding like a noob ganker. If you reallya re complaining that evac should be removed so that your group can gank the soloist you should hang your head in shame. However, I shall give you the benifit of the doubt here and assume you mean the fair fights, people just run like babies, which I know to be true also, and in such a case, I would agree that evac should be avaliable. Another interesting thought, is the in combat removal of evac, what if they brought it back, so that it is only avaliable on the unfair fights. So lets say your in an even fight 1v1, and half way through a group rolls up and starts beating on you. Well at that point, evac should immediately become avaliable and if for some reason your able to get it off, all the better. I wonder what you all think about that idea, the only problem, is that it is completely burried in a block of text and if you have even made it this far you are a better man/woman than I. Hope this helps.</p><p>Killque</p></blockquote><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Killque]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I agree!  You know how much the uber twinked alts -hate- when their helpless prey can escape?  SOE needs to correct this imbalance immediately.  It's ruining PvP for the noob gankers, and we certainly can't have any of that.</p><p>/sarcasm</p></blockquote>Eh, do you know what you are talking about here? I don't think so. It's not about noob ganking, ok? The most rapid evac'ers in T7 are high titled scouts. They can hardly be counted as noobs..... </blockquote>6 on 1 even if the 1 is skilled would still be stupid.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I agree!  You know how much the uber twinked alts -hate- when their helpless prey can escape?  SOE needs to correct this imbalance immediately.  It's ruining PvP for the noob gankers, and we certainly can't have any of that.</p><p>/sarcasm</p></blockquote>Eh, do you know what you are talking about here? I don't think so. It's not about noob ganking, ok? The most rapid evac'ers in T7 are high titled scouts. They can hardly be counted as noobs..... </blockquote>6 on 1 even if the 1 is skilled would still be stupid.</blockquote>Well, I usually only see it when it is 1 on 1. And I see it a lot....

[Bloodfa]

Sorry, Amphibia, I should clarify so as to avoid any confusion if it was in reference to my use of the term "Root".  I was speaking solely about the root and/or snare lines.  My carnivorous plant is long gone, deleted with my original toon, and I'm not going to bother strolling into somebody else's place to make use of theirs.  Also, I wouldn't count the locket as a viable alternative, as it flat out isn't.  And I agree, it's frustrating to have your quarry evac and /camp, or park for 15 minutes in immunity.  If you camp, the evac shouldn't countdown.  That's a sloppy oversight on the part of somebody at SOE that should be rectified; it should be the same as Call of (fill in the city).  Also, perma-immunity is BS, plain & simple.  Need a bathroom break, a smoke, a beer, or dinner's ready?  Camp or stay dead.  You can't change the way somebody plays, but I think there are more than a couple of things that many of us here agree are problems, like perma-immunity.  It's just that there's a lot of disagreement regarding how to fix those problems.

[Necromance]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remove evac from PvP servers </blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>or give it all</p><p>why Assassin, Brigand, Dirge, Ranger, Shadowknight, Swashbuckler, Troubador, Wizard, Warden can evac from enemy group, and Berserker, Bruiser, Conjuror, Coercer, Defiler, Fury, Guardian, Illusionist, Inquisitor, Monk, Mystic, Necromancer, Paladin, Templar, Warlock must die?</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, Amphibia, <b>I should clarify so as to avoid any confusion if it was in reference to my use of the term "Root".  I was speaking solely about the root and/or snare lines.</b>  My carnivorous plant is long gone, deleted with my original toon, and I'm not going to bother strolling into somebody else's place to make use of theirs.  Also, I wouldn't count the locket as a viable alternative, as it flat out isn't.  And I agree, it's frustrating to have your quarry evac and /camp, or park for 15 minutes in immunity.  If you camp, the evac shouldn't countdown.  That's a sloppy oversight on the part of somebody at SOE that should be rectified; it should be the same as Call of (fill in the city).  Also, perma-immunity is BS, plain & simple.  Need a bathroom break, a smoke, a beer, or dinner's ready?  Camp or stay dead.  You can't change the way somebody plays, but I think there are more than a couple of things that many of us here agree are problems, like perma-immunity.  It's just that there's a lot of disagreement regarding how to fix those problems.</blockquote>Oh, no worries... I think I was responding to Bozidar's post with that. Anyway, I agree with you in this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Bozidar]

btw.. giving "dimensional anchor" spell to some folks, sort of a "hey, stick around here for 15 seconds".. its an idea that's been bounced around before.

[ThomasGrey]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>btw.. giving "dimensional anchor" spell to some folks, sort of a "hey, stick around here for 15 seconds".. its an idea that's been bounced around before.</blockquote>That would be a good counter.  Rather than just disabling evac, make it counterable so we have more to think about in pvp.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>NecromanceRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remove evac from PvP servers </blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>or give it all</p><p>why Assassin, Brigand, Dirge, Ranger, Shadowknight, Swashbuckler, Troubador, Wizard, Warden can evac from enemy paty, and Berserker, Bruiser, Conjuror, Coercer, Defiler, Fury, Guardian, Illusionist, Inquisitor, Monk, Mystic, Necromancer, Paladin, Templar, Warlock must die?</p></blockquote><p>Why can they evac ... well, from a lore point of view it goes along with the class archetypes.  Ninjas fading into the shadow, Robin Hood being able to disappear into the forest when the Sheriff's men come a calling, Merlin going *poof* and vanishing.</p><p>From a gameplay aspect, a plate wearing Berzerker isn't supposed to run.  He's in plate armor.  Trying to disappear into the woodwork.  See where I'm going?  Or you can check out the lore behind the class.  Here's a summed up version <a href="http://m-w.com/dictionary/berserker" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://m-w.com/dictionary/berserker</a> </p><p><b><span style="color: #0000cc;">berserk</span></b></p><p><span style="color: #0000cc;">One entry found.berserk [noun]Main Entry: </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cc;">1 <b>:</b> an ancient Scandinavian warrior frenzied in battle and held to be invulnerable </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cc;">2 <b>:</b> one whose actions are recklessly defiant </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000;">You can do the same for all of the other classes, if you want to take that argument.  You're going to have to bring more to the discussion than "Why can't I have what they do?" when every single class has its' own special abilities, but you just want to have a little more.  Maybe it suits your playing style, but if I wanted to play a game where everybody had all the same abilities and the only difference was in name only, I wouldn't be playing this one.</span></p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>btw.. giving "dimensional anchor" spell to some folks, sort of a "hey, stick around here for 15 seconds".. its an idea that's been bounced around before.</blockquote>That would be a good counter.  Rather than just disabling evac, make it counterable so we have more to think about in pvp.</blockquote>Something that would interrupt evacs for 15 seconds?  Every class would insist on it being available to theirs.  An Item, perhaps?  Maybe something tinkered or looted with charges?

[Gimet]

How about no evac once HIT by an enemy. This will allow people to use evac as a convenience in instances and zones, but not deprive other players their rightfully earned PvP kills.

[Necromance]

<p>Bloodfang, ok!</p><p>But why brigand - uneducated bandit can disappear from battlefield (it's the highest magic), but Mages (especially illusionist) can't do it</p>

[Dannd]

<p>SKs can evac.</p><p>Wizards can evac.</p><p>Scouts can evac.</p><p>Wardens can regenerate a considerable amount of HP and Power after you killed them due to AA.  </p><p>That leaves out the durids, priests, and the fighters.  But they too can evac as well!  Do some forum research and you'll discover that there are other tools at your disposal to implement these same "pvp-breaking" features.  I'm not only talking about status lockets people.</p><p>As with anything else in PVP - you're not always going to win.  You will not always kill your prey when you initially engage.</p><p>Its the "fight" or "flight" mentality that each of us possess.  The quicker you complainers realize that everyone runs throughout the course of your online session, they better off every one of you will be.</p><p>I kill people from cliffs - nerf cliffs imo.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aint this funny?</p><p>Cheetah not only does NOT work in combat. It also puts you in combat. So can i have your evac removed please?</p></blockquote><p>Correct me if i'm wrong, please, but cheetah only puts you in combat and fails to work if you've been ATTACKED and an effect that cheetah cures has been put on you or one of your group members.</p><p>You can cheetah all day long if you don't have any effects on you or your group, and haven't been attacked in pvp.</p><p>but with a warden sow, peerless predator, and the movement speed from KoS, furies can pretty much run at 100% all the time anyway.. so what's the whine about?</p></blockquote><p>I guess i am supposed to run arround with a warden 24 hours a day 7 days a week?</p><p>So why cant i be attacked when using my escape spells but you can? If attacked evac should no longer work, if thats what you wanted. Sounds like a deal for me.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>change your mentality.  it's only an escape ability if you're a coward =P</p><p>think of it as a CHASING ability.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ThomasGrey]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>it's only an escape ability if you're a coward =P</p></blockquote><p>True, but..."I'm all for a fight but...  I am allegic to suicide"</p><p>I don't like 4 v 1 fights.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>then get away before they hit ya <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>i wasn't thrilled when potc was nerfed.. but it's not the end of the world.</p><p>and yes.. everyone should group with a warden 24/7.. i agree with that</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>change your mentality.  it's only an escape ability if you're a coward =P</p><p>think of it as a CHASING ability.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Yeah makes sense to chase a player with potc just to have your root/snare resisted so the opponent can run away with 40 % runspeed or just EVAC out.</p><p>Remove Evac is the only solution - scared to loose some fame?</p>

[Killque]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about no evac once HIT by an enemy. This will allow people to use evac as a convenience in instances and zones, but not deprive other players their rightfully earned PvP kills.</blockquote><p>Exacly how is a 6 on 1 or an x2 on 1 a rightfully earned pvp kill.</p><p>If you ask me, the only rightfully earned pvp kill is them laying dead at your feet. If they get away, its hardly rightfully earned, evac, sprint or otherwise.</p>

[Urgol]

The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac.

[ThomasGrey]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>and yes.. everyone should group with a warden 24/7.. i agree with that</p></blockquote>How about Ward of Shadows?  I almost felt overpowered at 34 with Malignant Touch until I fought a Warden with this buff up.

[ThomasGrey]

<cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac. </blockquote>Uninterruptable evac is huge in pvp, but thats balanced because scouts don't get stealth......oh wait they do, but thats ok because they can't track......oh wait then can.  Evac+RunSpeed+Stealth+Track = A pretty nice skill set.  The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove Evac is the only solution - scared to loose some fame?</p></blockquote>Afraid to fight a fair fight?

[Darkor]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove Evac is the only solution - scared to loose some fame?</p></blockquote>Afraid to fight a fair fight?</blockquote>I am not, but most other are. They just EVAC. Thats why it needs to be removed.

[Urgol]

<cite></cite><cite></cite><cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.</blockquote>Oh, the downside of this is..eh..neither my mystic nor my warlock have got harm touch

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove Evac is the only solution - scared to loose some fame?</p></blockquote>Afraid to fight a fair fight?</blockquote>I am not, but most other are. They just EVAC. Thats why it needs to be removed.</blockquote>lol.. i'm sure they're evacing from you when it's a fair fight.. lol

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove Evac is the only solution - scared to loose some fame?</p></blockquote>Afraid to fight a fair fight?</blockquote>I am not, but most other are. They just EVAC. Thats why it needs to be removed.</blockquote>lol.. i'm sure they're evacing from you when it's a fair fight.. lol</blockquote>Depends on what you consider fair fights, but I've had a fair share of scouts evac on me on a 1 on 1, with nothing else near. when they were higher level than me. fortunately enough, inquisitors dont have a very badass reputation, so when on my inqy, I even get green scouts jumping me. Now THATS fun!

[jjay04]

i feel the same way about rangers...they have already got enough advantages over every class to begin with and evac is another tool for them to run just they most rangers do...and EXTREMELY agree with the mounts at t2...if they r gonna be aloud those mounts the nthe mounts should lose the stats when engaged in pvp combat....its really sad to watch a lvl 17 on a mount like that solo a full grp a lvl or two under him because everything you throw at him is a resist...just really sad that they dont really have to work hard in the lowbie zones such as dlw....

[Xzerius]

<p>I always loved seeing people crying for  the proverbial "  FAIR  FIGHT "  on a PvP server.    </p><p>Theres plenty of " FAIR " fights on servers like Butcherblock, Antonia Bayle, etc.........  I think they call it  " DUELING"  dont they? </p><p>/boggle</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>folks evac because they think they're going to lose.. or that they have a high probability of evacing.</p><p>sorry to rock your world, but they don't evac for the pure pleasure of denying you enjoyment in the game.. </p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>folks evac because they think they're going to lose.. or that they have a high probability of evacing.</p><p>sorry to rock your world, but they don't evac for the pure pleasure of denying you enjoyment in the game.. </p></blockquote>haha, you know, griefers do that just because it gives them great joy to know they ruined your fun. I bet you would be able to find someone that would evac just because he knew it would ruin someones day. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magius789]

<cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac. </blockquote><b>Uninterruptable evac is huge in pvp</b>, but thats balanced because scouts don't get stealth......oh wait they do, but thats ok because they can't track......oh wait then can.  Evac+RunSpeed+Stealth+Track = A pretty nice skill set.  The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.</blockquote><p>Scouts evac is interuptable FYI.  </p><p>It's usually not a fair fight against Ajjantis..atleast not solo.  He always runs with a tank, an SK, and a brigand so solo doesn't really happen all that often.  Althought it does seem you play your fury a lot now that Jamilia moved to Naggy  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac. </blockquote><b>Uninterruptable evac is huge in pvp</b>, but thats balanced because scouts don't get stealth......oh wait they do, but thats ok because they can't track......oh wait then can.  Evac+RunSpeed+Stealth+Track = A pretty nice skill set.  The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.</blockquote><p>Scouts evac is interuptable FYI.  </p><p>It's usually not a fair fight against Ajjantis..atleast not solo.  He always runs with a tank, an SK, and a brigand so solo doesn't really happen all that often.  Althought it does seem you play your fury a lot now that Jamilia moved to Naggy  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Watching Jamilias video is enough proof that i run arround alot solo. And the only thing that can interupt evac is fear and mez - two things that many classes dont have. And it doesnt guarantate that you stop the scout getting away. I am not playing my fury anymore, sony gimped the class. I am forced to grp as ranger kill me in less than a second and swashbuckler totally destroy me. Im on my swashbuckler all day - enjoying being extremelly overpowered and love the free out of the jail card. I'll still sign any petition to remove evac from the game tho so i can play my fury and necromancer again.

[Gimet]

<p>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p>

[Magius789]

<p>More than fear and mez can interupt an evac.  When Privan was in his mid thirtys I remember running from an orange con in TS.  I was harvesting and he got the jump on me took me to about half, so I started running and cast evac then whatever it was he did it was interupted and then he killed me a few seconds later.  I don't know what he did but I know it wasn't a fear or a mezz, would a tank with a taunt/interupt CA work maybe?</p><p>On a side note with no real importance to this thread.  You said you stopped playing fury because SOE gimped your class but then said if SOE removed evac you'd play your fury and necro again.  How does removing evac make your fury or necro less [Removed for Content]?  Although personally I think furys are still very powerful but I do agree necros need some love.</p><p>P.S. Jamilia's famous video death of you was while you were in a full group at the ANT spire and they evaced after you died so........not really solo.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</b></p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p></blockquote>Good question.

[Magius789]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p></blockquote><p>Because we are scouts........its what we do.  Scouting ahead, gathering information, being able to move quickly through the environment and disappear into its folds.  Those are all the basic characteristics of a scout. It would be nice to see a bit more group benefits to what a scout can actually do.  Like maybe if you have a scout in your party the icon of the class of your enemy would show next to their name.  That'd be cool and actually give a benefit to the group other than just trying to track down enemies.  And track isn't the greatest thing in the world, yes its better than nothing but I can't count the number of times I've died to a person or group that has never shown up on my track.  DoM were masters at it back in the day.</p><p>You have to stop looking at the game in terms of this is what I can do, this is what they can do, now I want to know why I can't do those things and think I should be able to.  Am I thrilled at the fact that a healer can have 7k hp but withstand 10k dmg?  Hell no when you factor in their heals they have probably 20k plus in HP while once they get rid of my 7k I'm done for good.  But I don't complain about it because it makes ense to me, they are healers thats what they do.</p><p>Edit: just to add a bit of humor to this thread has anyone else noticied that a thread concerning evac and people avoid PvP was started by a person whose sig says "I came, I saw, I ran"   <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Urgol]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p></blockquote><p>Because we are scouts........its what we do.  Scouting ahead, gathering information, being able to move quickly through the environment and disappear into its folds.  Those are all the basic characteristics of a scout </p></blockquote>Yes, looks like you consider the ability to kill tank classes in less then 6-7 sec to be scouc class-defining as well. you see, everything has its tradeoff. Tanks trade their utility and dps for surviveability and aggro management. So do the healers for heals and buffs. And the scouts need to trade something for their amazing pvp utilities such as evac, track, stealth and sprint (predators). And here comes the tradeoff - what do scouts have besides utilities? dps? how about nerfing that in half to make scouts <i>Scouting ahead, gathering information, being able to move quickly through the environment and disappear into its folds </i>but not killing ppl in 4 seconds, which only mages should be capable of, well, because they have nothing at all besides that?

[Magius789]

<p>I can't speak for other scout classess but I know the only utility a ranger has in his group is pathfinding, all the other benefits we could give a group are intangible (I.E. not buffs but we have to have things like team speak, Ventrilo, etc.) to actually be a benefit to our group.  Having to type out the stuff we see on track isn't a feesable option.  And I agree a scout should not be able to drop a tank class in a few seconds.  Any decent healer can out heal our spike dps and well mages and such...as you said they sacrifice things for their high dps but with manashield now they have great survivability.  Long term a scout should not be able to touch a mage in terms of dmg with their big nukes.  Scouts mit isn't that great, most healers with their buffs can be equal and even surpass our mit.  </p><p>So what are we sacrificing for spike dps you are asking.  I'd have to say its our group utility since most people do use voice communication our benefits are intangible.  We can point you to the enemy but not really make the group that much better in killing them.</p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p></blockquote><p>What you are saying you want is locked combat, even if the attacked person doesn't engage.</p><p>Ok, sure!  Then I expect to have all speed buffs removed once I engage someone.  Fair isn't it?!  No more druids using their SoW to run away from fights.  Bring it!</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why should scouts decide whether to fight or not with evac while other classes sit at their computor, sigh, and die because there is no chance of getting away.</p><p>Once again, once HIT by an enemy player, evac should become an ability that cannot be used. This way people can use evac to their convenience OUTSIDE of PvP engagement.</p></blockquote><p>What you are saying you want is locked combat, even if the attacked person doesn't engage.</p><p>Ok, sure!  Then I expect to have all speed buffs removed once I engage someone.  Fair isn't it?!  No more druids using their SoW to run away from fights.  Bring it!</p></blockquote><p>Actually, I was suggesting it disabled evac. You guys have track, you know what's coming before you see it. If you want to evac you can evac BEFORE the person hits you. If the person hits you however, I think you shouldn't be able to evac.</p><p>Edit: No, do not lock combat after gettign hit, just lock Evac. Make it give a message like "You have already been seen, you must fight!"</p>

[rvc]

My suggestion would be take titles out of grp combat, create a system where you earn titles based on your solo vs grp or solo vs solo kills.   Grp kills still give faction but no positive hits toward a title.  Shrug just somehow seems more fitting to me to have a title due to yeah your [Removed for Content] good, vs your good at rolling with a grp ganking solos and sitting in immunity if your grps not around.

[Darkor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>More than fear and mez can interupt an evac.  When Privan was in his mid thirtys I remember running from an orange con in TS.  I was harvesting and he got the jump on me took me to about half, so I started running and cast evac then whatever it was he did it was interupted and then he killed me a few seconds later.  I don't know what he did but I know it wasn't a fear or a mezz, would a tank with a taunt/interupt CA work maybe?</p><p>On a side note with no real importance to this thread.  You said you stopped playing fury because SOE gimped your class but then said if SOE removed evac you'd play your fury and necro again.  How does removing evac make your fury or necro less [Removed for Content]?  Although personally I think furys are still very powerful but I do agree necros need some love.</p><p>P.S. Jamilia's famous video death of you was while you were in a full group at the ANT spire and they evaced after you died so........not really solo.</p></blockquote><p>Having 2 lvl 70 FPS and one lvl 66 Q and my girlfriend having a lvl 70 FP, i made more than enough tests to interupt the evac. Neither did any STUN nor any ability which is supposed to have an INTERRUPT effect-component stop my evac. So as long as you talk about this myth having your evac ONCE interrupted i dont believe you. Right now only mez and fear is known for interrupting evac which does not make sense.</p><p>So you have seen one video of jamilia killing me in a grp, ignoring all the other 10 deaths in the same or following videos where i was completely solo, grats.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Having 2 lvl 70 FPS and one lvl 66 Q and my girlfriend having a lvl 70 FP, i made more than enough tests to interupt the evac. Neither did any STUN nor any ability which is supposed to have an INTERRUPT effect-component stop my evac. So as long as you talk about this myth having your evac ONCE interrupted i dont believe you. Right now only mez and fear is known for interrupting evac which does not make sense.</p><p>So you have seen one video of jamilia killing me in a grp, ignoring all the other 10 deaths in the same or following videos where i was completely solo, grats.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry pal, Mez does NOT interupt evac. Interupt and stuns DO interupt evac, but it auto-recasts, so at best you've slowed his evac by 1-2 seconds. For some reason, evac will auto-recast when you're stunned... it shouldn't, cos... well you're stunned! Auto-recast should only work when an ability is interupted via a skill which interupts, or via an interupt from taking damage. </p><p>Ways to interupt (Scout) evac:1. Kill them first2. Charm3. Fear4. Stiffle and THEN interupt.</p><p>That's pretty much it.</p>

[Magius789]

<p>What classess were you using to try and interupt the evac?  Have you tried and stun + knockback effect?  What about being stifled while in the process of casting the CA?  I doubt you've tried every possible way to interupt that spell do to the limited number of characters one or two accounts can have.</p><p>And it's not just in Jamilia's videos have I seen you out and about.  I have had to elude your kill squad many of times in Loping and SS.</p>

[Timberwolf32]

<span style="font-size: small;font-family: arial black,avant garde;">Sorry but i disagree on the taking the evac or even moving up the timers. I have a 38 brig on the vox server with 43 aa and have desy title. I worked my [Removed for Content] off on this toon for that title not going to let a x-2 or x-3 raid take that away. Evac is the only thing that saves my [Removed for Content]. Now if someone jumps me one on one then il stand my ground. Even if 2 jump me. I can handle my ground most of the time.</span>

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>Contrary to wishful thinking on Aijantis part, Evac is 100% interruptible.  Its called death.  There are other methods to interrupting evac as well, but they do not enjoy a 100% guarantee like death.</p><p>And before you start in on the 'you're a scout therefore of course you disagree', I will remind you that YOU are the one campaigning to remove abilities from one of my characters.  </p><p>Evac does not gain me any faction, kills, or loot, and it only provides a limited amount of escapes.  I would trade it for manashield (who wouldn't), an emergency heal with no timer (seriously), or better yet, an ability to use my ranged CA's while moving (I know, a pipedream)!</p>

[Darkor]

<p>I love it, how i am supposed to kill someone before their evac goes off?</p><p>Evac can only be interrupted with FEAR and MEZ (ignore what paikis said, ive seen mez interrupt evac plenty times). Well ofcourse charm would work too but thats another story. And since i am playing a 66 Swashbuckler i am not asking for one of your abilitys to be removed but also one of my owns.</p><p>Even when stifled, evac will go throu if its casted before the stifle landed. And most classes dont get any kind of stifle so not going to discuss about this. And yes, ive tested with heavy knockbacks+stun from a bruiser, evac works absolutaly fine while getting beaten by a chi+knockout combo.</p><p>Evac should be much easier to be interupted, a much longer recast (atleast 60 minuts) and ofcourse the perma immunity to be removed. Or just remove the ability itself, it should not be on a pvp server.</p><p>Greetings from the 66 Dreadnaught Swashy who doesnt need evac to have success (unlike most rangers i know)</p><p>EDIT: I'd love to see you trade your evac for an 600 hp emergency heal lol.</p>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love it, how i am supposed to kill someone before their evac goes off?</p><p>Evac can only be interrupted with FEAR and MEZ (ignore what paikis said, ive seen mez interrupt evac plenty times). Well ofcourse charm would work too but thats another story. And since i am playing a 66 Swashbuckler i am not asking for one of your abilitys to be removed but also one of my owns.</p><p>Even when stifled, evac will go throu if its casted before the stifle landed. And most classes dont get any kind of stifle so not going to discuss about this. And yes, ive tested with heavy knockbacks+stun from a bruiser, evac works absolutaly fine while getting beaten by a chi+knockout combo.</p><p>Evac should be much easier to be interupted, a much longer recast (atleast 60 minuts) and ofcourse the perma immunity to be removed. Or just remove the ability itself, it should not be on a pvp server.</p><p>Greetings from the 66 Dreadnaught Swashy who doesnt need evac to have success (unlike most rangers i know)</p><p>EDIT: I'd love to see you trade your evac for an 600 hp emergency heal lol.</p></blockquote>Betray to warden and you will get evak as well.Stop whining already, poor fury.

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love it, how i am supposed to kill someone before their evac goes off?</p><p>Evac can only be interrupted with FEAR and MEZ (ignore what paikis said, ive seen mez interrupt evac plenty times). Well ofcourse charm would work too but thats another story. And since i am playing a 66 Swashbuckler i am not asking for one of your abilitys to be removed but also one of my owns.</p><p>Even when stifled, evac will go throu if its casted before the stifle landed. And most classes dont get any kind of stifle so not going to discuss about this. And yes, ive tested with heavy knockbacks+stun from a bruiser, evac works absolutaly fine while getting beaten by a chi+knockout combo.</p><p>Evac should be much easier to be interupted, a much longer recast (atleast 60 minuts) and ofcourse the perma immunity to be removed. Or just remove the ability itself, it should not be on a pvp server.</p><p>Greetings from the 66 Dreadnaught Swashy who doesnt need evac to have success (unlike most rangers i know)</p><p>EDIT: I'd love to see you trade your evac for an 600 hp emergency heal lol.</p></blockquote><p>You'll just have to figure out how to kill someone quickly on your own.  Sorry, you'll get no help from me there.  All I will say is that it has happened to me.</p><p>And how exactly does Evac give you success?  It doesn't kill your opponent, nor provide you with anything other than avoidance of a death.  At best you could say it gives you a tie.  OMG, a tie is SOOO OP!</p><p>A 66 dreadnought Swashbuckler you say?  My goodness, I guess congratulations are in order! </p>

[Amphibia]

The problem for low and medium dps classes, is that it is extremely difficult to keep someone from evac'ing long enough to kill them. Espesially scouts. Sure, stifles and stuns can stop someone from doing it for a few seconds, but they'll just keep trying and succeed a little later - when they're immune to everything you can throw at them.

[Cyst]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love it, how i am supposed to kill someone before their evac goes off?</p><p>Evac can only be interrupted with FEAR and MEZ (ignore what paikis said, ive seen mez interrupt evac plenty times). Well ofcourse charm would work too but thats another story. And since i am playing a 66 Swashbuckler i am not asking for one of your abilitys to be removed but also one of my owns.</p><p>Even when stifled, evac will go throu if its casted before the stifle landed. And most classes dont get any kind of stifle so not going to discuss about this. And yes, ive tested with heavy knockbacks+stun from a bruiser, evac works absolutaly fine while getting beaten by a chi+knockout combo.</p><p>Evac should be much easier to be interupted, a much longer recast (atleast 60 minuts) and ofcourse the perma immunity to be removed. Or just remove the ability itself, it should not be on a pvp server.</p><p>Greetings from the 66 Dreadnaught Swashy who doesnt need evac to have success (unlike most rangers i know)</p><p>EDIT: I'd love to see you trade your evac for an 600 hp emergency heal lol.</p></blockquote><p>We all know why you want evac gone Ajjantis, it's because you run in gank groups and really think your title means you're good. We've all seen you're not. If you remove evac, remove heals too, because most Druids are near impossible to kill by over half the classes in the game.</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Everyone can get an evac root, they're easy to get, and cheap!</p><p>I used to carry them on my Warlock and stopped because I can kill 2-1 odds, and sometimes 3-1 odds. If the group is green, I don't fear them.</p>

[Necodem]

<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love it, how i am supposed to kill someone before their evac goes off?</p><p>Evac can only be interrupted with FEAR and MEZ (ignore what paikis said, ive seen mez interrupt evac plenty times). Well ofcourse charm would work too but thats another story. And since i am playing a 66 Swashbuckler i am not asking for one of your abilitys to be removed but also one of my owns.</p><p>Even when stifled, evac will go throu if its casted before the stifle landed. And most classes dont get any kind of stifle so not going to discuss about this. And yes, ive tested with heavy knockbacks+stun from a bruiser, evac works absolutaly fine while getting beaten by a chi+knockout combo.</p><p>Evac should be much easier to be interupted, a much longer recast (atleast 60 minuts) and ofcourse the perma immunity to be removed. Or just remove the ability itself, it should not be on a pvp server.</p><p>Greetings from the 66 Dreadnaught Swashy who doesnt need evac to have success (unlike most rangers i know)</p><p>EDIT: I'd love to see you trade your evac for an 600 hp emergency heal lol.</p></blockquote><p>We all know why you want evac gone Ajjantis, it's because you run in gank groups and really think your title means you're good. We've all seen you're not. If you remove evac, remove heals too, because most Druids are near impossible to kill by over half the classes in the game.</p></blockquote>lol Furies are the easiest healer to kill, because they have the worst healing abilities.

[Necodem]

<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everyone can get an evac root, they're easy to get, and cheap!</p><p>I used to carry them on my Warlock and stopped because I can kill 2-1 odds, and sometimes 3-1 odds. If the group is green, I don't fear them.</p></blockquote><p>And we want evac removed ( or perhaps just unable while attacked in pvp) because lots of people soloing and even in grp, just evac because they are afraid to lose some fame.</p><p>And btw scout evac is harder to interrupt, shorter to cast and can be cast all 15min or 10min if you got some AA with it.</p>

[Cyst]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everyone can get an evac root, they're easy to get, and cheap!</p><p>I used to carry them on my Warlock and stopped because I can kill 2-1 odds, and sometimes 3-1 odds. If the group is green, I don't fear them.</p></blockquote>And we want evac removed ( or perhaps just unable while attacked in pvp) because lots of people soloing and even in grp, just evac because they are afraid to lose some fame.</blockquote><p>It's called survivability. If a person evac's from you, or your group, than nine time out of ten, it was an easy kill for you, no challenge. So if you're only wanting evac gone for those easy gank kills, than I have to disagree with you, and say evac is fine, and should stay. You accuse them for not wanting a fame loss to an entire group, when reality is you ONLY want that easy kill for fame. Pot meet kettle.</p><p>Ajjantis wants it gone because he lost pact of cheetah, and fought to keep pact of cheetah, so he isn't being honest here. The only thing that needs done with evac is to double its recast time.. Put a 30 minute recast timer on it, and it is fine.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everyone can get an evac root, they're easy to get, and cheap!</p><p>I used to carry them on my Warlock and stopped because I can kill 2-1 odds, and sometimes 3-1 odds. If the group is green, I don't fear them.</p></blockquote>And we want evac removed ( or perhaps just unable while attacked in pvp) because lots of people soloing and even in grp, just evac because they are afraid to lose some fame.</blockquote><p>It's called survivability. If a person evac's from you, or your group, than nine time out of ten, it was an easy kill for you, no challenge. So if you're only wanting evac gone for those easy gank kills, than I have to disagree with you, and say evac is fine, and should stay. You accuse them for not wanting a fame loss to an entire group, when reality is you ONLY want that easy kill for fame. Pot meet kettle.</p><p>Ajjantis wants it gone because he lost pact of cheetah, and fought to keep pact of cheetah, so he isn't being honest here. The only thing that needs done with evac is to double its recast time.. Put a 30 minute recast timer on it, and it is fine.</p></blockquote>Do you really think this is just about groups ganking those poor soloing scouts (!!!) (who should be more than able to see groups on track and back off long before they get too close)? It isn't. I'm usually PvP'ing all by myself, and I think I'm pretty much incapable of "ganking" a scout - yet all they ever do when I get the jump is to evac from me.  If <i>they</i> get the jump however, I usually die in a few seconds. I can forget about revenge, because I'll never find him again. And IF I should be lucky enough to spot him again, he will just evac away. I'm so unbelievably tired of that crap! I don't blame the scouts though, heck... they are using all the advantages they have - who wouldn't? But I wish something could be done to balance this out sometime soon, because otherwise this game will never be anything else than "Everscout 2", and I doubt that was the devs intent when they decided to make 24 classes.... I think the best idea so far, is this one: <span style="color: #ffffff;"><b>If you get attacked, you are automatically in combat and cannot evac. So if you want to disappear, you need to do it before they hit you. </b></span>Combine that with removal of fame loss via PvP death, and we're golden. Then the classes would be far more balanced, too. Scouts would still have an advantage, but they would no longer be miles ahead of everyone else.

[Krokous]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everyone can get an evac root, they're easy to get, and cheap!</p><p>I used to carry them on my Warlock and stopped because I can kill 2-1 odds, and sometimes 3-1 odds. If the group is green, I don't fear them.</p></blockquote>And we want evac removed ( or perhaps just unable while attacked in pvp) because lots of people soloing and even in grp, just evac because they are afraid to lose some fame.</blockquote><p>It's called survivability. If a person evac's from you, or your group, than nine time out of ten, it was an easy kill for you, no challenge. So if you're only wanting evac gone for those easy gank kills, than I have to disagree with you, and say evac is fine, and should stay. You accuse them for not wanting a fame loss to an entire group, when reality is you ONLY want that easy kill for fame. Pot meet kettle.</p><p>Ajjantis wants it gone because he lost pact of cheetah, and fought to keep pact of cheetah, so he isn't being honest here. The only thing that needs done with evac is to double its recast time.. Put a 30 minute recast timer on it, and it is fine.</p></blockquote>Do you really think this is just about groups ganking those poor soloing scouts (!!!) (who should be more than able to see groups on track and back off long before they get too close)? It isn't. I'm usually PvP'ing all by myself, and I think I'm pretty much incapable of "ganking" a scout - yet all they ever do when I get the jump is to evac from me.  If <i>they</i> get the jump however, I usually die in a few seconds. I can forget about revenge, because I'll never find him again. And IF I should be lucky enough to spot him again, he will just evac away. I'm so unbelievably tired of that crap! I don't blame the scouts though, heck... they are using all the advantages they have - who wouldn't? But I wish something could be done to balance this out sometime soon, because otherwise this game will never be anything else than "Everscout 2", and I doubt that was the devs intent when they decided to make 24 classes.... I think the best idea so far, is this one:<span style="font-size: medium;"><u><b><span style="color: #ff0099;"> </span><span style="color: #ff0099;">If you get attacked, you are automatically in combat and cannot evac. So if you want to disappear, you need to do it before they hit you. </span><span style="color: #ff0099;"></span></b></u></span>Combine that with removal of fame loss via PvP death, and we're golden. Then the classes would be far more balanced, too. Scouts would still have an advantage, but they would no longer be miles ahead of everyone else. </blockquote>YEEEES!!!

[Magius789]

<p>If you want to make it so that as soon as you are hit with a hostile PvP spell you are locked into combat (I.E. no evac and all run speed buffs gone) please tell me the solution you would implement to stop the then rampant 6 v 1 or x2 (3 or 4) v 1 or v 6?  If you don't provide a negative then all we will see is people rolling around in x2's.</p><p>Also track isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Yes compared to nothing its fantastic but as I've said in MANY posts and previously in this thread I can't count the number of times I've been jumped by a group that DID NOT show up on my track until I'm already taking dmg.  DoM was fantastic at being able to do this.  We all have a version of track...its called totems and keeping an open eye.  It works wonders.</p><p>Amphibia I know what you are talking about and understand your pain, I've had that problem happen MANY of times to me on my alts.  However even if the scout didn't evac from you they would just merely run away since you are now locked into combat and have no run speed buffs and they are out and do have them.  So removing evac wouldn't really solve your problem because instead of a *poof* they are gone you'd get a *zoom* and there they go.  Even if you do root them it usually doesn't last long enough for you to kill them before they take off.  </p><p>So I think another solution is needed instead of just a blanket "remove evac" solution.  If you remove it from scouts (who are basically the people in this thread defending it) you'll now have upset every class that gets some sort of evac because you'd have to remove all of them and then this thread would be MUCH longer.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to make it so that as soon as you are hit with a hostile PvP spell you are locked into combat (I.E. no evac and all run speed buffs gone) please tell me the solution you would implement to stop the then rampant 6 v 1 or x2 (3 or 4) v 1 or v 6?  If you don't provide a negative then all we will see is people rolling around in x2's.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>Well, a lot of us just have to take whatever comes. There will always be those who prefer to run in groups, simply because it is safer. Espesially if you play a fragile or weak PvP class. The only problem I see with this, is the fame loss. Nobody likes to get ganked by superior numbers that they stand no chance against, but that is what happens if you run into them. It shouldn't have to mean losing something you worked for, though....Personally I doubt I'd notice much difference, as I die in a split second to those groups anyway - with zero chance to get away. </b></span><p>Also track isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Yes compared to nothing its fantastic but as I've said in MANY posts and previously in this thread I can't count the number of times I've been jumped by a group that DID NOT show up on my track until I'm already taking dmg.  DoM was fantastic at being able to do this.  We all have a version of track...its called totems and keeping an open eye.  It works wonders.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>Hello, I've been soloing for a long time on a monk and an illusionist - of course I use totems and try to keep my eyes open. Slow rendering is often a problem though, and I also need line of sight. And it really only works well in open areas. You don't need any of that to see if someone is in the area, and how many. </b></span><p>Amphibia I know what you are talking about and understand your pain, I've had that problem happen MANY of times to me on my alts.  However even if the scout didn't evac from you they would just merely run away since you are now locked into combat and have no run speed buffs and they are out and do have them.  So removing evac wouldn't really solve your problem because instead of a *poof* they are gone you'd get a *zoom* and there they go.  Even if you do root them it usually doesn't last long enough for you to kill them before they take off. </p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>Hehe, you are forgetting something: If you are put into combat by me hitting you, your enhanced runspeed will suspend. No running away at 65% or whatever it is you rangers have these days. I can follow you at the exact same speed, and there is a good chance I'll actually kill you if you choose to just run and not fight back. You have no idea how many people I've killed this way, or how many times I've been killed myself while trying to run away. That's how it works when evac is out of the picture. </b></span><p>So I think another solution is needed instead of just a blanket "remove evac" solution.  If you remove it from scouts (who are basically the people in this thread defending it) you'll now have upset every class that gets some sort of evac because you'd have to remove all of them and then this thread would be MUCH longer.</p><span style="color: #cc6699;"><b>The evac button would still be there. Just make sure to go *poof* before people get too close. </b></span></blockquote>

[Magius789]

<p>So not only do you want evac removed but you want any hit from any character put you into PvP combat?  Thats a whole nother boat right there, if they ever made that change I'd quit this game for the sole fact that I solo 90% of the time atleast and I have to avoid gank groups like none other.  Often times my evac is down because I've used it to avoid another group so if a group of six rushed me and locked me into combat that be crazy.  If that happened no one would ever solo......EVER.  It would be pure suicide.  There are many ways in the game to stop a runner (root, attack then snare, attack then stun, etc etc.) and making the change you are asking for would negate all of those neat ways and just make everybody lazy and unintelligent.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I can somewhat understand your frustration with evac  and I've learned to live with it.  But the whole any hit putting you into PvP combat is just down right crazy!  People need to be able to get away, the chase is part of the game and it works for everybody since only bards have in combat run speed.</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> <span style="color: #ffffff;"><b>If you get attacked, you are automatically in combat and cannot evac. So if you want to disappear, you need to do it before they hit you. </b></span></blockquote>Good god no. Granted I'm tired of how easy it is for people to get away, but this would turn Whisperwind in the Barren Sky into an insane deathtrap. You spam the pad and ANYONE who lands will instantly be killed.

[Krokous]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> <span style="color: #ffffff;"><b>If you get attacked, you are automatically in combat and cannot evac. So if you want to disappear, you need to do it before they hit you. </b></span></blockquote>Good god no. Granted I'm tired of how easy it is for people to get away, but this would turn Whisperwind in the Barren Sky into an insane deathtrap. You spam the pad and ANYONE who lands will instantly be killed.</blockquote>you scouts should try playing clothy, no way how to escape when someon attacks you, i play illusionist and no evac etc, just sure death,- so get ready and lets get rid of evac on pvp.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So not only do you want evac removed but you want any hit from any character put you into PvP combat?  Thats a whole nother boat right there, if they ever made that change I'd quit this game for the sole fact that I solo 90% of the time atleast and I have to avoid gank groups like none other.  Often times my evac is down because I've used it to avoid another group so if a group of six rushed me and locked me into combat that be crazy.  If that happened no one would ever solo......EVER.  It would be pure suicide.  There are many ways in the game to stop a runner (root, attack then snare, attack then stun, etc etc.) and making the change you are asking for would negate all of those neat ways and just make everybody lazy and unintelligent.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I can somewhat understand your frustration with evac  and I've learned to live with it.  But the whole any hit putting you into PvP combat is just down right crazy!  People need to be able to get away, the chase is part of the game and it works for everybody since only bards have in combat run speed.</p></blockquote>*sigh*Ok...I did NOT say that I wanted both evac removed AND being hit to put you into combat. You with me so far?Being put into combat by getting hit was a suggested <i>fix</i> to the problems with evac. I don't remember who suggested it first (Paikis?), but I thought it sounded like a decent idea. You would still be able to evac, but you would have to pay closer attention to your surroundings (just like you advised me to do, remember?) and evac before they came close enough to hit you. Removing evac would no longer be necessary under a ruleset like that. It is not perfect, is what we have now? Scouts (and to some degree other classes with evac) can completely dictate when and where to fight, while other classes just have to deal with whatever they get. Why are you so afraid of a change here, it is not like other classes havent had to deal with this since what... launch? You are seriously telling me that there are ways to stop a runner? Stop insulting me please - I didn't start PvP'ing yesterday, ok? I have to completely rely on my control abilities to do that on a regular basis. But there is a huge difference between a <i>runner</i> and someone who hits the evac button. Did I mention that evac'ing also grants permanent immunity? That is what <i>I</i> would describe as crazy.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> <span style="color: #ffffff;"><b>If you get attacked, you are automatically in combat and cannot evac. So if you want to disappear, you need to do it before they hit you. </b></span></blockquote>Good god no. Granted I'm tired of how easy it is for people to get away, but this would turn Whisperwind in the Barren Sky into an insane deathtrap. You spam the pad and ANYONE who lands will instantly be killed.</blockquote>I know. Camping of transport stations would probably become a problem.<span style="color: #cc0033;">*</span> So I guess we're back to<i> removing</i> evac again then.... Or make it something like 6 second cast, 60 minutes recast and very easy to interrupt. By this I mean cripple it so much that it is is about as useful in PvP as Call of Qeynos. 3rd option: Give it to everyone, as a skill. Same cast and recast time for all classes. Preferably the scout version. Personally, I hate this idea. It would just encourage even more evac'ing and less PvP. Welcome to Everevac 2! The only good thing about it is that it would make other classes a little more viable for solo PvP. <span style="color: #cc0033;">EDIT:</span> On the other hand, if transport stations are being camped, maybe that would encourage more cooperation within the factions. It would once again allow factions to control certain areas, and encourage the other faction to rally their troops and kick them out of there. Sounds like fun to me...  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I realize that everthing is about fame these days, though.... so maybe a revamp of the fame system is needed as well to allow a change like this. Meaning no fame loss when you die. Even you scouts shouldn't be too worried about a little dying then?

[Darkor]

<p>Ganking grps are just an excuse for you scouts, how many times has a solo scout evacuated from me cause he didnt get the jump on my fury, swashbuckler or necro? enough times to say evac should be remove (coming from a scout)</p><p>Please never forget this is a pvp server and you are playing in a hostile enviroment. </p><p>Remove evac and perma immunity!</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>When will you folks realize that they've already nerfed Evac, and they're not going to nerf it again?</p><p>It's on a 15 minute timer.. it's not game breaking.   Relax and enjoy the game.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ganking grps are just an excuse for you scouts, how many times has a solo scout evacuated from me cause he didnt get the jump on my fury, swashbuckler or necro? enough times to say evac should be remove (coming from a scout)</p><p>Please never forget this is a pvp server and you are playing in a hostile enviroment. </p><p>Remove evac and perma immunity!</p></blockquote><p>Taking damage is just an excuse for you healers, how many times has a wizard nuked down your health and you healed it cause you didn't want to die?  enough times to say healing should be removed (coming from a healer)</p><p>Please never forget this is a pvp server and you are playing in a hostile environment.</p><p>Remove healing and reviving!</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Remove zoning!!!</p><p>How many times have you zoned out when me and my 23 buddies wanted to fight with you?  Gank groups are just your excuse for hiding from pvp.  Let's not forget that this is pvp, it's a hostile environment!</p><p>Remove zoning and experience!!</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole </blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area. I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close. Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ganking grps are just an excuse for you scouts, how many times has a solo scout evacuated from me cause he didnt get the jump on my fury, swashbuckler or necro? enough times to say evac should be remove (coming from a scout)</p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;"><b>Please never forget this is a pvp server and you are playing in a hostile enviroment.</b></span> </p><p>Remove evac and perma immunity!</p></blockquote><p>Basically, that one comment above just countered any and all of your prior statements about removing anything.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.

[Azol]

<p>I would say that if you cannot stop a wizard from evacing, you just do not know how to play this game. Easily interrupted with almost everything, cannot be cast while running, 3 sec cast (good 3-4 CA for most classes). Learn to play your class!</p><p>And maybe it is a bit different with scouts, I cannot tell, but again, remove permanent immunity and let evac stay the way it is.</p><p>Poor poor furies, they even cannot run away... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Poor poor monks, they cannot catch evacing caster...</p><p>Poor poor <i><insert a class here></i> they cannot win against <i><insert another class here></i></p><p><b>Much easier to /cry and /beg in here...</b></p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Amen, Azol!!!!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and i'm 1,000,000% on board with removing the immunity from evac.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.</blockquote>How come the rest of us don't have this "right", then? But this is meaningless. People who have the ability, would of course like to keep it. I didn't expect much support from scouts and others who use evac frequently, it is very convinient after all. The only exceptions I've seen so far is Paikis and maybe Taear. If I had a hat, I would tip it for them. I'm not saying that all or perhaps any of the suggestions in this thread are perfect, or even viable. But i <b>am</b> saying that there is an issue here. It would seem as I'm not the only person who sees that....

[Darkor]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.</blockquote><p>LOLmao, yeah their right to NOT fight on a PLAYER vs PLAYER server. If you want to have rights refusing to fight then a blue server is your right choice, this is not about wanting or not wanting - this is war.</p><p>Some people dont understand the concept of a player vs player server i guess, stop mixing that up with duelling.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.</blockquote>How come the rest of us don't have this "right", then? But this is meaningless. People who have the ability, would of course like to keep it. I didn't expect much support from scouts and others who use evac frequently, it is very convinient after all. The only exceptions I've seen so far is Paikis and maybe Taear. If I had a hat, I would tip it for them. I'm not saying that all or perhaps any of the suggestions in this thread are perfect, or even viable. But i <b>am</b> saying that there is an issue here. It would seem as I'm not the only person who sees that.... </blockquote>Not all scouts like this easy mode thing Amphibia. I'll be the first scout to sign the petition removing evac.

[Killque]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.</blockquote>How come the rest of us don't have this "right", then? But this is meaningless. People who have the ability, would of course like to keep it. I didn't expect much support from scouts and others who use evac frequently, it is very convinient after all. The only exceptions I've seen so far is Paikis and maybe Taear. If I had a hat, I would tip it for them. I'm not saying that all or perhaps any of the suggestions in this thread are perfect, or even viable. But i <b>am</b> saying that there is an issue here. It would seem as I'm not the only person who sees that.... </blockquote>Ill gladly trade you evac for one of your abilties?

[Ahlana]

<p>Wow I can't believe I read almost this entire thread. So now I feel I have the right to reply.</p><p>First, no class, unless the ability is extremely over powered, will rally on the side of getting rid of something they have. I doubt users of manashield will rally for it's nerf? That aside, most of those that are of said classes usually have another class in the wing and the scout or whatever is not their main. Fury playing swashy for instance, if all he played was swashy from the get go chances are he would not be saying to get rid of evac. Fact is he just, as stated by himself, wants to play his fury again.</p><p>Evac is not game breaking, perma-immunity is. By all means get rid of that stuff from evac. I hear no scouts, SKs, wizards, or others discounting this request.</p><p>People will say "Why Ahlana you are a SK you get evac don't you?" I reply "sure do!" In the last two weeks of fights, I have never had a scout evac on me 1v1. That is a true story and sadly all I have fought have been scouts. (there was one 2v2 fight but even they had a swashy). </p><p>Though I imagine there are many that evac from a fair fight, I really do not see it myself in the teirs I play. (and yes T7 is one of them). </p><p>My suggestions for what is worth. 1) Remove perma-immunity from evac2) Increase the cast time to 30mins on PVP servers (like it is for SKs)3) Change titles to a Kill Amount instead of fame based (this will most likely stop the ones that flee for the sake of saving their titles)</p><p>Evac has very real PvE uses even on a PvP server so the thought that they will remove it entirely is a pipe dream. People need to think of tweaks and get off this "let's remove it from game band wagon". Sure it could use modifying but as long as it has a PvE use chances are it will not be removed entirely.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>if all he played was swashy from the get go chances are he would not be saying to get rid of evac. Fact is he just, as stated by himself, wants to play his fury again.</p></blockquote><p><- Troubador. Paikis is my main and is pretty much the only toon I have that PvPs (except my necro, but he only occasionally sees the light, and even then he's only level 15)</p><p>Now that I've said that, REMOVE EVAC.</p><p>Or better yet, impliment one of the ideas that I put forward earlier, any damage and you're in combat and evac doesn't work anymore. As for the problem of gank groups sitting on the cloud pads... /invite is your friend.</p><p>When you rolled on a PvP server, did you expect that it would be like a PvE server, where you can chose when to duel someone? I know I didnt. I joined hoping for massive brawls, and occasionally i got them. Recently however all I see is people flying away, or evaccing. Well thats not totally true, I also have hordes of level 57-59 toons trying to kill me but that's a different gripe.</p><p>You rolled on a PvP server, death is a part of playing on this server. I don't particularly care if you get killed by groups. You chose not to bring your own group, you accepted the risks.</p><p>Fight or Die.</p>

[Rylight]

<p>im just gonna keep this short, if all evacs were like the sk evacs, I doubt there would be any complaints at all, it takes a whole three seconds to cast ( which is murder when you have six ppl beating the crap out of you) we can t move while we cast it, and its so interruptable that sometimes we sk's ask ourselfs "is it worth casting?" honestly I cant even believe the original OP even put sk's as one of the problem evac'ers, have you ever played an sk? heck, the evac is only usefull in pvp when you can literally see the group coming at you from 100 feet away, then you just might get away, but the chance you can get it off while being attacked (by even 1 person) is low.</p><p>but seriously, last time I checked, (and maybe this has changed) scout evacs are almost a 100% assured to evac if they cast it.</p><p>even more so, I really dont mind evacs with the way they work now. honestly I havent had anybody evac on me on a 1vs1 fight. and lets be real. most ppl use evac when they get in a situation were a whole group gangs up on them, and its honestly no fair that a whole group can get your infamy, I mean its just crap. I dont mind the token and status points. but if you ask me one on one fights are the most honorable and real fights, they really measure an individuals strengths/intelligents and they deserve infamy, and when a whole group can take that away from a person, it just really doesnt make alot of since. heck, even group on group fights are honorable and deserve infamy.</p><p>now whats the solution to this? easy, always be in a group yourself, and we will never have 1vs1 fights agian, does that sound fun?</p><p> but hey, if I could get attacked by 3+ people and not lose infamy for it, then I'd be all for taking away evac, cause its not really infamous when a person jumps in a group and ganks soloers all the time. I mean sure if they had titles like "the ganker" or " the grouper", then that would be a title they would really be infamous of.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>How come the rest of us don't have this "right", then? But this is meaningless. People who have the ability, would of course like to keep it. I didn't expect much support from scouts and others who use evac frequently, it is very convinient after all. The only exceptions I've seen so far is Paikis and maybe Taear. If I had a hat, I would tip it for them. I'm not saying that all or perhaps any of the suggestions in this thread are perfect, or even viable. But i <b>am</b> saying that there is an issue here. It would seem as I'm not the only person who sees that.... </blockquote><p>Not everyone has the ability to heal themselves, should we remove it?</p><p>Not everyone has the ability to taunt, should we remove it?</p><p>Not everyone has the ability to nuke the bejezus outta someone, should we remove it?</p><p>There's no issue here.  It's part of the game.  Adapt or go home.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p>Palkis I am not saying there are NO exceptions to the rule. But let's be honest you are the minority when it comes to a class asking for a self nerf. </p><p>While I do not expect PVP to be like PVE. I am confident in my reasoning that they will not remove something that will effect the PVE portion of a PVP server. It is unlikely that they will remove it all together.</p><p>Personally I am for putting people into combat on the first hit. I mean whether you like it or not if you are being attacked you are "in combat" one way or another. However, if this is implemented, people will begin to complain about tracking. Because scouts can still pick to run before someone gets close enough to hit them while others don't have this choice. Since, they don't have the choice why do scouts get to pick when they fight.. blah.. blah</p><p>So you can see the trend would most likely continue so long as there is a way for anyone, anyone at all, to pick their fights. Since this seems to be what most are asking for the removal of evac for in the first place it would seem that tracking would need to go as well. (Note: I am not suggesting this as a solution)</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>LOLmao, yeah their right to NOT fight on a PLAYER vs PLAYER server. If you want to have rights refusing to fight then a blue server is your right choice, this is not about wanting or not wanting - this is war.</p><p>Some people dont understand the concept of a player vs player server i guess, stop mixing that up with duelling.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's their right.  They can zone, they can cloud, they can griff, they can log, they can hide in instances, they can just run away because they have out-of-combat speed and you don't.  (fury out-of-combat is still higher than any other class if spec'd correctly, even bards who SHOULD have the best speeds)</p><p>Stop being the bitter fury who lost potc.  it's the worst kind of person who gets their escape taken away and then goes on a crusade to ruin everyone else's day because they're petulant about it.</p><p>Stop crying NERF.. no one wants to hear it.</p><p>Are there issues with evac?  I think so.  But removing it isn't the answer.</p><p>1) Remove permaimunity from it</p><p>2) Don't allow group members who have engaged in pvp to be evac'd</p><p>3) Make the scout evac <i>more</i> interruptable</p>

[Magius789]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>hyperbole</blockquote>Lots and lots and lots of times we've been equal, or even OUTNUMBERED by our enemies and they've evacced. We even started trying to kill the scout first in groups or dragging them away just so they couldn't instantly remove their group from the area.I've lost count of the times we've got a group on track with a scout in that's just vanished as we get close.Honestly, it's NOT only used to escape from overwhelming odds.</blockquote>Ok, now ask yourself WHY they evac'd.  It was because they thought they had something they were going to lose.  They didn't want to fight, it's their right.</blockquote><p>LOLmao, yeah their right to NOT fight on a PLAYER vs PLAYER server. If you want to have rights refusing to fight then a blue server is your right choice, this is not about wanting or not wanting - this is war.</p><p>Some people dont understand the concept of a player vs player server i guess, stop mixing that up with duelling.</p></blockquote><p>It is there right Ajjantis, just because this is a PvP server doesn't mean that ANYBODY has to stick around and fight ANYBODY ELSE.  Do you expect a solo to fight a full group?  (Well other than that time that Jamilla attacked your full group and after he killed you the rest of your group EVACED from a solo ranger with his timers down)  Or a solo vs. a raid or group vs. a raid.  This isn't the 1800's when each army/person has to present him/herself to the enemy and then start fighting.  As you said it's war, these changes would only make the solo player have no chance of surviving when a group found him.</p><p>Fact is I've had my evac interupted, I've had a group stun, root, snare me so I couldn't run away or evac.  I said this on page two of this thread and I'll say it again.  There are parts about this game that everybody considers unfair, that doesn't mean they are OP or need to be changed.  Just deal with it.  Do I like the fact that I have to kill a healer 8x worth his HP to actually get the kill, no.  Do I like the fact that mages get three wards (manashield, frost ward, mage shield) and usually requires me to take 2 or 3x their hp to kill them?  No but I understand why these changes were made and why these characters have their abilities.  If you are playing a not intended solo class and you are soloing with them, then all power to you.  But don't complain and ask for changes just becaues those classess that are designed to solo are able to get away from you.  That is after all what they are designed to do!</p><p>Amphibia I'm not insulting you, I've read many of your posts and think you know a great deal about this game.  I do however think you are posting on a emotional basis because you are tired of being jumped by scouts and very rarely getting to exact any revenge.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>it would seem that tracking would need to go as well. </p></blockquote><p>Take it then. Or give it to everyone via totems.</p><p>I just want more PvP, I want those huge brawls to come back, you can even zerg me.</p><p>I've got some RL stuff happening atm which prevents me from playing, but I'll be giving Venekor a day or two when I get back, and if things are still as bad as they were 2 weeks ago when I stopped playing, then I'm gonna lay down my $ and go to Nagafen.</p><p>Like Taear said (may have been another thread) I can run around for 4-5 hours and not see a single name on track that I didn't recognise. I know the class of every name I see, I even know their general gear level and if I can kill them.</p><p>Last time I went PvPing on Venekor, I spent 4 hours to get 3 tokens. Oh, I also lost some of my fame (LAWL!) to a group of greys which jumped me while I was trying to kill a certain monk whos name I wont mention. So for my 4 hours, I got 3 tokens and a drop in my fame level to a group of greys. Pass. If it's still like that, then I'll wave goodbye to Dauntless and bugger off to Nagafen.</p>

[Bozidar]

yeah, let's make game-breaking changes because folks on venekor can't find a fight! wheeeee

[Ahlana]

<p>Though it is a good question Palkis brings up. Who here is from Venekor calling for the removal and how many are from other servers Naggy and Vox calling for the same changes. Low PVP on Venekor or any other server is no reason to call for a nerf.</p><p>However I will beg to differ that the removal of evac is far from game-breaking :p</p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Though it is a good question Palkis brings up. <b>Who here is from Venekor calling for the removal and how many are from other servers Naggy and Vox calling for the same changes</b>. Low PVP on Venekor or any other server is reason to call for a nerf.</p><p>However I will beg to differ that the removal of evac is far from game-breaking :p</p></blockquote>Hmmm, interesting point.

[Killque]

<p>WTT Evac</p><p>Will accept any of the following: Mez, Charm, Manashield, Null mail, Ice Comet, Null Absolution, Any self/group heal, Any self/group ward, Port, HT/MT/PT, A pet, Fury/Warden Dmg Shield, cure all, Dirty Punch, Rift, undead tide, Strike of Thunder, Starburst, any stiffle, Feign Death, Scourge, .... the list goes on...</p>

[Bhugg]

<p>Personnally, I think the replenish timer for evac shouldn't re-start until after you have moved out of immunity from a previous evac.  That way, noone is able to evac and sit in immunity until their evac is back up.  You can still get out of combat once, but after that, you take your chances until it comes back up normally.</p><p>Marrz</p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Marrz@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Personnally, I think the replenish timer for evac shouldn't re-start until after you have moved out of immunity from a previous evac.  That way, noone is able to evac and sit in immunity until their evac is back up.  You can still get out of combat once, but after that, you take your chances until it comes back up normally.</p><p>Marrz</p></blockquote>Just remove the perma-immunity.  No need to recode the evac timer.

[Cyst]

<p><span style="font-size: medium;">If you remove evac, you need to remove all see invisibility, and see stealth from the game that isn't a class ability.</span></p>

[Ridyen]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot</span></b>. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go? </blockquote><p>I see this kind of statement over and over and I don't remember ever reading a statement saying that EQII classes are supposed to be balanced.  Every class/race has some attribute(s) that makes it better at some point than the class/race they are fighting.  Pick a fight with the wrong class and your risk of dieing goes up.  Get caught soloing by a group and your're dead meat.  I too play both bard classes.  Without evac I cannot begin to count the number of times I would have died.  Sure folks evac on me as well and yes its frustrating but its simply part of the game.  I fight when I can.  I run when I must.   </p><p>If Sony wanted to balance the game the would have provided a set of abilities/gear/spells for everyone to pick from.  That way every ability that you failed to select for you character would be your fault and not Sony's.  You certainly could not claim that the playing field was unbalanced or that it was unfair for another class to have something you chose not to select.  </p>

[Cyst]

<p>Don't let Amphibia, Ajjantis, and Darkhain fool you.</p><p>People like this only want evac gone because it denies them easy kills, easy fame. Evac doesn't deny them a fight, because that person would have stayed to fight if he/she had a chance to fight. It denies them an easy kill, and they don't like that.</p><p>Let these people dictate how PvP should be, and we'll eventually all be rooted at the first sign of attack. They don't want a fight, they want easy kills.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot</span></b>. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go? </blockquote><p>I see this kind of statement over and over and I don't remember ever reading a statement saying that EQII classes are supposed to be balanced.  Every class/race has some attribute(s) that makes it better at some point than the class/race they are fighting.  Pick a fight with the wrong class and your risk of dieing goes up.  Get caught soloing by a group and your're dead meat.  I too play both bard classes.  Without evac I cannot begin to count the number of times I would have died.  Sure folks evac on me as well and yes its frustrating but its simply part of the game.  I fight when I can.  I run when I must.   </p><p>If Sony wanted to balance the game the would have provided a set of abilities/gear/spells for everyone to pick from.  That way every ability that you failed to select for you character would be your fault and not Sony's.  You certainly could not claim that the playing field was unbalanced or that it was unfair for another class to have something you chose not to select.  </p></blockquote><p>Ofcourse you will never be able to balance all classes. You will never see a necro own a good bruiser - its just not possible.</p><p>But seeing the overall balance scouts, especially ranger are the top dogs. A ranger killin a complete pvp armor equpped fury fully mastered out with 100 AAs gets killed in less than 2 seconds by a ranger. See the balance problem? not even a slight chance. Its for most classes like this against Ranger, Swashys and Brigands. Totally overpowered and zero balance. And on top of that those classes get the best pvp tools called track stealth and evac.</p><p>How many times did i get my butt handed by an ranger or swashy without even having the slightest chance (using short time buffs and potions)?</p><p>Countless times! But i can live with it as long as i can get my revenge, but i cant - and do you know why? If, and that is a big IF i find the same scout again to rematch they just evac. See the frustation? no gank squads or anything like that.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot</span></b>. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go? </blockquote><p>I see this kind of statement over and over and I don't remember ever reading a statement saying that EQII classes are supposed to be balanced.  Every class/race has some attribute(s) that makes it better at some point than the class/race they are fighting.  Pick a fight with the wrong class and your risk of dieing goes up.  Get caught soloing by a group and your're dead meat.  I too play both bard classes.  Without evac I cannot begin to count the number of times I would have died.  Sure folks evac on me as well and yes its frustrating but its simply part of the game.  I fight when I can.  I run when I must.   </p><p>If Sony wanted to balance the game the would have provided a set of abilities/gear/spells for everyone to pick from.  That way every ability that you failed to select for you character would be your fault and not Sony's.  You certainly could not claim that the playing field was unbalanced or that it was unfair for another class to have something you chose not to select.  </p></blockquote>There is one huge flaw with this mindset: If some classes are too awkward to play, they'll simply become too rare. Nobody is going to play them, and those few who do might pull their hair out in frustration. If you go to Barren Sky, what do you see? Scouts, scouts and more scouts.... and an occasional druid here and there. Well, and wizards... if you count the farmers. Do you think it is a coincidence?But it affects more than just that. PvE is also much harder when some classes are almost impossible to find because they are too rare. A raid consisting of swashbucklers, rangers and druids isn't gonna get very far... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Cyst]

<p>There are only two things that need changed with evac, and removing it isn't one of them.</p><ol><li>Increase the recast timer to 30 or 40 minutes. Even an hour is fine since scouts can also use other evac tools like roots.</li><li>Remove permanent immunity upon evac (but have random evac points). When you evac you go to a random respawn point with a 30 second, or 60 second immunity timer. By having random evac points you keep people from camping evac points.</li></ol>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Don't let Amphibia, Ajjantis, and Darkhain fool you.</p><p>People like this only want evac gone because it denies them easy kills, easy fame. Evac doesn't deny them a fight, because that person would have stayed to fight if he/she had a chance to fight. It denies them an easy kill, and they don't like that.</p><p>Let these people dictate how PvP should be, and we'll eventually all be rooted at the first sign of attack. They don't want a fight, they want easy kills.</p></blockquote>This post is so ridiculous and unreasonable that it's hardly worth a comment. I'm not trying to fool anyone - are you? And I've explained in full detail, several times <b>why</b> I think there is a problem here. It is an opinion. If you have a problem with that, what can I tell you?

[Magius789]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot</span></b>. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go? </blockquote><p>I see this kind of statement over and over and I don't remember ever reading a statement saying that EQII classes are supposed to be balanced.  Every class/race has some attribute(s) that makes it better at some point than the class/race they are fighting.  Pick a fight with the wrong class and your risk of dieing goes up.  Get caught soloing by a group and your're dead meat.  I too play both bard classes.  Without evac I cannot begin to count the number of times I would have died.  Sure folks evac on me as well and yes its frustrating but its simply part of the game.  I fight when I can.  I run when I must.   </p><p>If Sony wanted to balance the game the would have provided a set of abilities/gear/spells for everyone to pick from.  That way every ability that you failed to select for you character would be your fault and not Sony's.  You certainly could not claim that the playing field was unbalanced or that it was unfair for another class to have something you chose not to select.  </p></blockquote><p>Ofcourse you will never be able to balance all classes. You will never see a necro own a good bruiser - its just not possible.</p><p>But seeing the overall balance scouts, especially ranger are the top dogs. A ranger killin a complete pvp armor equpped fury fully mastered out with 100 AAs gets killed in less than 2 seconds by a ranger. See the balance problem? not even a slight chance. Its for most classes like this against Ranger, Swashys and Brigands. Totally overpowered and zero balance. And on top of that those classes get the best pvp tools called track stealth and evac.</p><p>How many times did i get my butt handed by an ranger or swashy without even having the slightest chance (using short time buffs and potions)?</p><p>Countless times! But i can live with it as long as i can get my revenge, but i cant - and do you know why? If, and that is a big IF i find the same scout again to rematch they just evac. See the frustation? no gank squads or anything like that.</p></blockquote><p>Here we go again with the crazy exagerations from Ajjantis.  Tell me one thing Ajj if you have no chance against these scouts and die in less than two seconds then why on God's green earth would you try to hunt them down and fight them again?  The fact is you don't die in less than two seconds and are capable of beating these classess, hence why you try to find them once they've killed you.  I'm willing to bet you spend about 30 min. looking until they can get fame again and then you dissappear.</p><p>Evac grants you no kills, no fame, no faction.  It's something some classess have and other don't (but all can get  in some way).  It's not overpowered because there is no power to it, DEAL WITH IT!  If everybody started a thread about something they thought was OP the forums would be full of useless bickering and nonsense...............................oh wait </p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>nice joke... if you don't anything better to say, just don't post.</blockquote><p>Who said i was joking?</p><p>Every other thread in this forum is "nerf this", "nerf that", "change this", "change that".</p><p>seriously.. when are you people going to be satisfied?</p><p>nothing in this game has been out-and-out broken since they changed the pvp belt, and capped the amount of AA that lowbies could spend.</p><p>Do rangers spike a lot of damage? sure.</p><p>Is manashield a bit OP? yep.</p><p>Is evac a bit annoying when you finally get your prey in front of you?  absolutely.</p><p>But none of it is flat-out breaking pvp.</p><p>It just seems like SOE is doing their best to provide a balanced and fun game, and <i>no one</i> is ever satisfied and just says : "Hey, nice job, i'm really enjoying this.  Sure, there could be some tweaks, but no big deal".</p><p>Well.. i'm done fighting with the nerf police.  I'm done being that guy who has to take a side in an argument to explain to the nerf n***** that "you're ruining a playstyle with your constant griping and complaining".</p><p>I'm now on the "Remove PVP so I can experience the PVE content w/o the complainers" bandwagon.  I think if they out-and-out remove PVP, folks might just, for a split second, be happy with the best and fastest evolving pvp game on the mmo market, and ask SoE to restore it.</p><p>just sick of the whining.. </p></blockquote>While I don't mind you disagreeing with me, would you please refrain from using that N-word in my thread? It might get the whole thing locked for no good reason. I also think EQ2 is a great game, heck... I'm still playing it! <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">But class balance is something I care a lot about, espesially since I like to solo a lot</span></b>. A MMORPG is not a concole game, it is a game that is always changing. That's a generally a good thing, do you ask me. In EQ2's case, it has usually been to the better.  I guess this may just seem like nothing but whining to you, and yes... I'll admit the OP was partly a rant. But by also explaining the <i>reason behind</i> my rant, I'm actually trying to provide feedback. If I can't use this forum for that, where should I go? </blockquote><p>I see this kind of statement over and over and I don't remember ever reading a statement saying that EQII classes are supposed to be balanced.  Every class/race has some attribute(s) that makes it better at some point than the class/race they are fighting.  Pick a fight with the wrong class and your risk of dieing goes up.  Get caught soloing by a group and your're dead meat.  I too play both bard classes.  Without evac I cannot begin to count the number of times I would have died.  Sure folks evac on me as well and yes its frustrating but its simply part of the game.  I fight when I can.  I run when I must.   </p><p>If Sony wanted to balance the game the would have provided a set of abilities/gear/spells for everyone to pick from.  That way every ability that you failed to select for you character would be your fault and not Sony's.  You certainly could not claim that the playing field was unbalanced or that it was unfair for another class to have something you chose not to select.  </p></blockquote><p>Ofcourse you will never be able to balance all classes. You will never see a necro own a good bruiser - its just not possible.</p><p>But seeing the overall balance scouts, especially ranger are the top dogs. A ranger killin a complete pvp armor equpped fury fully mastered out with 100 AAs gets killed in less than 2 seconds by a ranger. See the balance problem? not even a slight chance. Its for most classes like this against Ranger, Swashys and Brigands. Totally overpowered and zero balance. And on top of that those classes get the best pvp tools called track stealth and evac.</p><p>How many times did i get my butt handed by an ranger or swashy without even having the slightest chance (using short time buffs and potions)?</p><p>Countless times! But i can live with it as long as i can get my revenge, but i cant - and do you know why? If, and that is a big IF i find the same scout again to rematch they just evac. See the frustation? no gank squads or anything like that.</p></blockquote><p>Here we go again with the crazy exagerations from Ajjantis.  Tell me one thing Ajj if you have no chance against these scouts and die in less than two seconds then why on God's green earth would you try to hunt them down and fight them again?  The fact is you don't die in less than two seconds and are capable of beating these classess, hence why you try to find them once they've killed you.  I'm willing to bet you spend about 30 min. looking until they can get fame again and then you dissappear.</p><p>Evac grants you no kills, no fame, no faction.  It's something some classess have and other don't (but all can get  in some way).  It's not overpowered because there is no power to it, DEAL WITH IT!  If everybody started a thread about something they thought was OP the forums would be full of useless bickering and nonsense...............................oh wait </p></blockquote>Ask Valentino, he has killed me in about a half second. Ive talked with him about it on ventrilo. If you think im telling myths go talk to him and im sure he'll gladly back up what i said. And why i hunt them down? why shouldnt i lol. I try my luck. Its not that ive never killed a scout.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Evac grants you no kills, no fame, no faction.  It's something some classess have and other don't (but all can get  in some way).  It's not overpowered because there is no power to it, DEAL WITH IT!  If everybody started a thread about something they thought was OP the forums would be full of useless bickering and nonsense...............................oh wait </p></blockquote>May I suggest that you are forgetting something once again? Fame. You lose it whenever you lose a fight you<i> choose</i> to engage in. I lose it every time I get run over by players or groups I have no chance of beating or getting away from. So to say that there is no real advantage to it, is a gross exaggeration in my opinion. And I've dealt with it for quite some time. We all have. But now I'm tired of it, which is why I started this thread. I wanted a discussion. Feel free to call it nonsense, but it is not bickering. It turns into bickering when people start attacking eachother on a more personal level for stuff that has happened in game. Please don't do that here.

[Tae]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Here we go again with the crazy exagerations from Ajjantis.  Tell me one thing Ajj if you have no chance against these scouts and die in less than two seconds then why on God's green earth would you try to hunt them down and fight them again? </blockquote>Because he has a Swashbuckler now, and other Swashbucklers are one of the only other classes who can compete in the first place. I refuse to believe that, as a ranger, you've lost against a fury in T7. It's just not possible unless you spend half the fight lagged. But if a group of two scouts kills you, you can't ever get a friend and go back for a rematch. Why? Because they've vanished into the ether forever, and if you're lucky enough to glimpse them they'll just evac and sit for 15 minutes. I know, because I do it myself. I think part of the reason people are so likely to evac in that situation is that a death loses you a whole lot more than a victory does. It's not really in their interest to have a close fight with you due to that.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>May I suggest that you are forgetting something once again? Fame. You lose it whenever you lose a fight you<i> choose</i> to engage in.</blockquote>Then lets remove Fame. ^^Not the first time its been suggested. Too many people want their cake and eat it too.

[Mildavyn]

<p>What's the point of having a cake that you can't eat?</p><p>Nothing more to add to the conversation, jsut thought I'd throw that in <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What's the point of having a cake that you can't eat?</p></blockquote>I understand.. fish in a barrel.. real men stand and die.. one chose the wrong profession... etc.I think one can let a kill or two go once in a while.. there are hundreds to hunt/fight on the server.. unless obsessed by fame... then I can see a reason to complain when a kill gets away.. regardless of the tactic. If we apply such logic.. then suicide.. aka cliff/cloud diving.. should flag a person for a faction gain and token to the person who attacked or was attacked.. agreed? ^^

[Elephanton]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kulras wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wow, the crying!  Stop please!!!</p><p>   This ability allows me to PvP when I want, which is great.  I can go out, PvE, Farm stuff for crafting, and not worry to much about being ganked.  Then when I am more prepared I stand my ground and fight the fair fight.  IMHO, everyone should have evak to make it equal footing, but getting rid of it is just a dumb idea.</p><p>While we're at it, add invis to all classes too...being able to exploit PvE encounters for some classes but not others is just lame.  So in summary...</p><p>Invis & Evac for all...Fair enough?</p></blockquote><p>Invis totem 1 gold, evac = priceless</p><p> 65 Dreadnaught Swashy here, i'll sign the petition to remove evac at any given time!</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hey Ajjantis!Everyone on this forum (and their moms too) know that your main is Fury.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">So please stop doing this crap - don't sign petitions if you don't actually play the class much. Yes y</span><span style="font-size: medium;">ou may actually have 65 swashy indeed, but you only care about fury nowadays, this is OBVIOUS from all your posts. And of course your fury would benefit if scouts loose evac... so don't come here saying your are swashy, this is so silly! At least, you should think on creating separate forum account if you plan to do something similar in future. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[Darkor]

I dont know what you are talking about, i played this char in 2 months to 67. Its my new main and even tho i am a scout i still would like my evac to get removed.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>May I suggest that you are forgetting something once again? Fame. You lose it whenever you lose a fight you<i> choose</i> to engage in.</blockquote>Then lets remove Fame. ^^Not the first time its been suggested. Too many people want their cake and eat it too.</blockquote>I'm all for that idea too.....And ElephantonRU, don't worry. This isn't a petition, as petitions are not allowed on this forum. It is a <i>discussion</i>, nothing more. No change will happen unless the devs decide it.

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>A Short History of Evac on  PvP</p><p>It used to grant no immunity other than a 30 second timer, and a common sight at the time were gank squads waiting at evac points.  Ask anyone who rendered slowly how many times they even got the chance to see the first 5 seconds of that countdown timer.  </p><p>Solution by SOE was perma immunity as long as you didn't move from the area.  Loss to the gankers.</p><p>Now the complaint is that the easy kill (soloer) shouldn't be allowed this?  Keep moving, nothing to see here. Loss to the gankers.</p><p>It used to be that Evac could be cast in-combat.  I don't think hardly anyone disagreed, much, that this was truly a needed change, but a change it was indeed.  Of course, this change meant any scout who engaged in a possible fair fight opened themselves up to the risk of getting caught by an oncoming steamroller if reinforcements for the opponent were near, but this is how it should be, after all a non evaccer faces this same risk.  In the end, it still goes into the loss coloumn of soloers, but the gain coloumn of overall game play.</p><p>If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! Of course, that eay kill will now be forced to sit there waiting for the gank squad to get bored and move on, but that will certainly remove the complaint of not being able to keep up with your intended victim, err, I mean opponent.</p><p>Removing evac as a survival tool for scouts (the majority class of soloers) in PvP in no way helps the game.  In the long run, it would only produce less PvP players, not exactly a desired outcome.</p><p>If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A Short History of Evac on  PvP</p><p>It used to grant no immunity other than a 30 second timer, and a common sight at the time were gank squads waiting at evac points.  Ask anyone who rendered slowly how many times they even got the chance to see the first 5 seconds of that countdown timer.  </p><p>Solution by SOE was perma immunity as long as you didn't move from the area.  Loss to the gankers.</p><p>Now the complaint is that the easy kill (soloer) shouldn't be allowed this?  Keep moving, nothing to see here. Loss to the gankers.</p><p>It used to be that Evac could be cast in-combat.  I don't think hardly anyone disagreed, much, that this was truly a needed change, but a change it was indeed.  Of course, this change meant any scout who engaged in a possible fair fight opened themselves up to the risk of getting caught by an oncoming steamroller if reinforcements for the opponent were near, but this is how it should be, after all a non evaccer faces this same risk.  In the end, it still goes into the loss coloumn of soloers, but the gain coloumn of overall game play.</p><p>If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! Of course, that eay kill will now be forced to sit there waiting for the gank squad to get bored and move on, but that will certainly remove the complaint of not being able to keep up with your intended victim, err, I mean opponent.</p><p>Removing evac as a survival tool for scouts (the majority class of soloers) in PvP in no way helps the game.  In the long run, it would only produce less PvP players, not exactly a desired outcome.</p><p>If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p></blockquote>I have yet to see someone mid fight to get out of danger using the call ability. People simply evac from me on all my chars, refusing to fight. In my humble oppinion noone should be able to decide if he wants to fight or not. This is a hostile enviroment. Where is the thrill right now? scared to loose fame? this is not real pvp imo.

[convict]

Have to agree, I've never seen anyone try to cast a 30 second casting port because they saw a gank squad on the way.. Terrible counter..I say remove any skill that requires more than 8 mins to use again.. Theres just to many easy outs and I win buttons in this game. Remove fame while  your at it.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><snip for irrelevance></p><p>1. If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>2. Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! </p><p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>3. If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p></blockquote><p>1. I play a scout class (As my MAIN and ONLY 70) and I'm calling for evac to be removed. I don't want it removed because I can use it, I want it removed because I'm sick of seeing people disappear as soon as I cast a spell at them. I'm not talking about solos running from me and my 5 buddies either, I'm talking about solos running from ME, just me. The only solo toons who will engage me now are swashbucklers, and rangers who have range... and the occasional druid. Removing my evac from my hotbars will not fix the problem of rampant evaccing (From a solo Troubador! /shame)</p><p>2. It was, I believe, me who suggested that they should /invite. Being as how I'm a scout myself, why would I invite another scout just for evac? Again, the whole point of my posts in this thread is to get MORE fights, not spread the evac ability around so we can have NO fights. Like I said before, being ganked is a way of life on a PvP server, you should NOT have the choice to just disappear, if someone attacks you (or me) then both parties should be put into combat. No evaccing, no zoning and no out of combat run speed.</p><p>3. Sounds silly? You bet it does! How many people ahve you ever seen casting a portal in the middle of combat? Nevermind the fact that it'd need to be cast for 30 seconds without interuption, once someone's hitting you, YOU CANT USE IT ANYWAY!</p>

[Darkor]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><snip for irrelevance></p><p>1. If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>2. Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! </p><p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>3. If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p></blockquote><p>1. I play a scout class (As my MAIN and ONLY 70) and I'm calling for evac to be removed. I don't want it removed because I can use it, I want it removed because I'm sick of seeing people disappear as soon as I cast a spell at them. I'm not talking about solos running from me and my 5 buddies either, I'm talking about solos running from ME, just me. The only solo toons who will engage me now are swashbucklers, and rangers who have range... and the occasional druid. Removing my evac from my hotbars will not fix the problem of rampant evaccing (From a solo Troubador! /shame)</p><p>2. It was, I believe, me who suggested that they should /invite. Being as how I'm a scout myself, why would I invite another scout just for evac? Again, the whole point of my posts in this thread is to get MORE fights, not spread the evac ability around so we can have NO fights. Like I said before, being ganked is a way of life on a PvP server, you should NOT have the choice to just disappear, if someone attacks you (or me) then both parties should be put into combat. No evaccing, no zoning and no out of combat run speed.</p><p>3. Sounds silly? You bet it does! How many people ahve you ever seen casting a portal in the middle of combat? Nevermind the fact that it'd need to be cast for 30 seconds without interuption, once someone's hitting you, YOU CANT USE IT ANYWAY!</p></blockquote>Even tho i dont like Paikis at all, he sums it up perfectly and gives the right arguments why evac is such a pain on a pvp server. I mean even PvE wise it has lost it big role cause you no longer have to go get your corpse like in Everquest 1.

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote>even PvE wise it has lost it big role cause you no longer have to go get your corpse like in Everquest 1.</blockquote><p>OMG! corpse runs were evil! I remember having 2 shards stuck at the bottom of Fallen Gate (the original version, complete with access quest and insane mob pathing) trying to get them back was a nightmare, think I got one fo em and my group disbanded... never did get that last one back.</p><p>/petition to trade shard runs for evac.</p>

[Raznor2]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A Short History of Evac on  PvP</p><p>It used to grant no immunity other than a 30 second timer, and a common sight at the time were gank squads waiting at evac points.  Ask anyone who rendered slowly how many times they even got the chance to see the first 5 seconds of that countdown timer.  </p><p>Solution by SOE was perma immunity as long as you didn't move from the area.  Loss to the gankers.</p><p>Now the complaint is that the easy kill (soloer) shouldn't be allowed this?  Keep moving, nothing to see here. Loss to the gankers.</p><p>It used to be that Evac could be cast in-combat.  I don't think hardly anyone disagreed, much, that this was truly a needed change, but a change it was indeed.  Of course, this change meant any scout who engaged in a possible fair fight opened themselves up to the risk of getting caught by an oncoming steamroller if reinforcements for the opponent were near, but this is how it should be, after all a non evaccer faces this same risk.  In the end, it still goes into the loss coloumn of soloers, but the gain coloumn of overall game play.</p><p>If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! Of course, that eay kill will now be forced to sit there waiting for the gank squad to get bored and move on, but that will certainly remove the complaint of not being able to keep up with your intended victim, err, I mean opponent.</p><p>Removing evac as a survival tool for scouts (the majority class of soloers) in PvP in no way helps the game.  In the long run, it would only produce less PvP players, not exactly a desired outcome.</p><p>If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p></blockquote><p>If I recall right most of the evac spots were quite close to a zone line.  EL's was by the dock as was SS, TT's was right by the spire.  It used to be that if a group evacced you could evac right after them and if they still didn't want the fight there was a zoneline they could take within the 30 seconds.  Also, chasing someone to an evac point held a great degree of danger, you would lose that element of surprise that perhaps your group needed to beat that other group or maybe another force evacs back onto you or there's a force waiting at that point and your group goes from agressor to being on the run, it was fun.  Then they moved the evac points away from each other.  Which I feel was a bad idea, it took what was a good way to pursue away.  Then soe gave perma immunity to evac, which has been horrible for pvp.  I've seen an entire raid force squat in perma immunity while doing hurricanus because they couldn't beat our force but we couldn't drive them out of the zone because of perma immunity.  Groups that before we could have evaced after or even ran to at the spires and forced a fight or zoning in TT can now sit on their butts and wait forever because of permanent immunity.  There's also the countless frickin times I've run into groups at WW in BS and they evac, no fight, no pursuit they just stand there making stupid emotes and "let's duel" pets.  </p><p>If they are concerned about slow zoners then just extend the immunity time a little to 40-45 seconds.  There are so many places you can be safe from pvp, cities, instances, the docks, zonelines and camping out.  There should be no sanctuary in the wild.  I'm not opposed to evac and not allowing evac once in combat was a good idea, once your committed to a fight you shouldn't be able to ditch when it sours.  But permanent immunity is <b>terrible </b>just terrible,<b> </b>it makes pursuing and battling over a zone so lousy and coupled with Kos it's made t7 pvp like pulling teeth with the cloud hopping and cliff jumping then evacing into perma immunity then zone hopping.  If anything has led to a downturn in EQII pvp it's been Kos and permanent immunity.</p><p>~Raithan, 70 bruiser Venekor</p>

[Mildavyn]

Hopefully RoK will fix the zone-hopping.

[Magius789]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A Short History of Evac on  PvP</p><p>It used to grant no immunity other than a 30 second timer, and a common sight at the time were gank squads waiting at evac points.  Ask anyone who rendered slowly how many times they even got the chance to see the first 5 seconds of that countdown timer.  </p><p>Solution by SOE was perma immunity as long as you didn't move from the area.  Loss to the gankers.</p><p>Now the complaint is that the easy kill (soloer) shouldn't be allowed this?  Keep moving, nothing to see here. Loss to the gankers.</p><p>It used to be that Evac could be cast in-combat.  I don't think hardly anyone disagreed, much, that this was truly a needed change, but a change it was indeed.  Of course, this change meant any scout who engaged in a possible fair fight opened themselves up to the risk of getting caught by an oncoming steamroller if reinforcements for the opponent were near, but this is how it should be, after all a non evaccer faces this same risk.  In the end, it still goes into the loss coloumn of soloers, but the gain coloumn of overall game play.</p><p>If you play a scout class, and are calling for the removal of evac, simply don't put it on your hotbar.  Noone is forcing you to  use the ability, but this doesn't mean everyone else has to conform to your choices.</p><p>Countering soloers argument of 'evac is a solo player's chance of escaping from a ganking', by telling them to /invite, I would recommend to those to /invite a scout.  Congratulations, you've just added that same ability to your group! Of course, that eay kill will now be forced to sit there waiting for the gank squad to get bored and move on, but that will certainly remove the complaint of not being able to keep up with your intended victim, err, I mean opponent.</p><p>Removing evac as a survival tool for scouts (the majority class of soloers) in PvP in no way helps the game.  In the long run, it would only produce less PvP players, not exactly a desired outcome.</p><p>If it does happen, that will be the day I start a new nerf thread, calling for the removal of all portal abilities, including the Call Home.  After all, I can use the same argument that these abilities don't let me fight when that person uses their port/call to escape from a potential combat.</p><p>Sounds silly doesn't it?  Well, it sounds just as silly to me when its said concerning Evac.</p></blockquote><b>I have yet to see someone mid fight to get out of danger using the call ability</b>. People simply evac from me on all my chars, refusing to fight. In my humble oppinion noone should be able to decide if he wants to fight or not. This is a hostile enviroment. Where is the thrill right now? scared to loose fame? this is not real pvp imo. </blockquote>I have yet to see someone mid fight get out of danger using the "evac" ability either.  Probably because its disabled once you enter PvP combat so that argument is invalid.

[Dannd]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac. </blockquote><b>Uninterruptable evac is huge in pvp</b>, but thats balanced because scouts don't get stealth......oh wait they do, but thats ok because they can't track......oh wait then can.  Evac+RunSpeed+Stealth+Track = A pretty nice skill set.  The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.</blockquote><p>Scouts evac is interuptable FYI.  </p><p>It's usually not a fair fight against Ajjantis..atleast not solo.  He always runs with a tank, an SK, and a brigand so solo doesn't really happen all that often.  Althought it does seem you play your fury a lot now that Jamilia moved to Naggy  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Im on my swashbuckler all day - enjoying being extremelly overpowered and love the free out of the jail card. <b>I'll still sign any petition to remove evac from the game</b> </blockquote><p>That petition is filed right under the one Venekor server has detailing your questionable pvp tactics on your Qeynos aligned character...</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Messia]

I am not a huge fan of immunity in evac but i am also not a huge fan of nerfing skills that have always been associated with a class.   When people start talking about nerfing damage etc you are proposing changes that break the game in some instances for PVE/Raid content.  If you nerf everything damage wise everyone cries about it would be impossible to complete some raid zones/content even for some of the best Raid guilds in the game.and FYI I am a warden .... yeah my evac is a fairly long cast time and I can't cast it on the run .. HOWEVER as far as always getting it interrupted i would have to disagree ... probably 70 percent of the time i get it off without getting interrupted.Despite all the crying I guarantee you there is someone in just about every class that can probably beat you no matter how good you are.   There is no one who is so good that someone can't school them occasionally.Rangers have Evac and Track, wizzies have manaburn, and manashield, warlocks have rift, furies have call of storms and hibernation, illusionists have group mezz, wardens have 3 roots, 4 if you take the wisdom aa line too, Templars wear plate, shadowknights have harm touch.EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING THAT IS A WILD CARD.... leave the game alone and stop nerfing it.

[Darkor]

<cite>Jethal@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ThomasGrey wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The good news about evac is: yeah, its avaliable to every single class. the bad news: only scouts  get it for free, on short reuse timer, uninterruptable, granting perma immunity (+ wizzies +wardens get a worse version). And, in addition, scouts get track while other classes do get BS - a nice 'tradeoff' for incredible useability of evac. </blockquote><b>Uninterruptable evac is huge in pvp</b>, but thats balanced because scouts don't get stealth......oh wait they do, but thats ok because they can't track......oh wait then can.  Evac+RunSpeed+Stealth+Track = A pretty nice skill set.  The good news is, I've never seen anyone evac from harm touch.</blockquote><p>Scouts evac is interuptable FYI.  </p><p>It's usually not a fair fight against Ajjantis..atleast not solo.  He always runs with a tank, an SK, and a brigand so solo doesn't really happen all that often.  Althought it does seem you play your fury a lot now that Jamilia moved to Naggy  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Im on my swashbuckler all day - enjoying being extremelly overpowered and love the free out of the jail card. <b>I'll still sign any petition to remove evac from the game</b> </blockquote><p>That petition is filed right under the one Venekor server has detailing your questionable pvp tactics on your Qeynos aligned character...</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Questionable pvp tactics on my Q aligned Character, what are you trying to tell me?

[Bloodfa]

I think the implication has something to do with an act normally associated with agriculture. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Amphibia]

<cite>SuraSuzukisan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not a huge fan of immunity in evac but i am also not a huge fan of nerfing skills that have always been associated with a class.   When people start talking about nerfing damage etc you are proposing changes that break the game in some instances for PVE/Raid content.  If you nerf everything damage wise everyone cries about it would be impossible to complete some raid zones/content even for some of the best Raid guilds in the game.and FYI I am a warden .... yeah my evac is a fairly long cast time and I can't cast it on the run .. HOWEVER as far as always getting it interrupted i would have to disagree ... probably 70 percent of the time i get it off without getting interrupted.Despite all the crying I guarantee you there is someone in just about every class that can probably beat you no matter how good you are.   There is no one who is so good that someone can't school them occasionally.Rangers have Evac and Track, wizzies have manaburn, and manashield, warlocks have rift, furies have call of storms and hibernation, illusionists have group mezz, wardens have 3 roots, 4 if you take the wisdom aa line too, Templars wear plate, shadowknights have harm touch.<span style="color: #cc0000;">EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING THAT IS A WILD CARD.... leave the game alone and stop nerfing it.</span></blockquote>lolSome "wild card" -  there is nothing unpredictable about it. It is being used all the time by everyone who has it, and it does the same thing every time: Teleports the player away from harm and to a spot where he can stand in peace for as long as he wants. And that out in the wild too....

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SuraSuzukisan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not a huge fan of immunity in evac but i am also not a huge fan of nerfing skills that have always been associated with a class.   When people start talking about nerfing damage etc you are proposing changes that break the game in some instances for PVE/Raid content.  If you nerf everything damage wise everyone cries about it would be impossible to complete some raid zones/content even for some of the best Raid guilds in the game.and FYI I am a warden .... yeah my evac is a fairly long cast time and I can't cast it on the run .. HOWEVER as far as always getting it interrupted i would have to disagree ... probably 70 percent of the time i get it off without getting interrupted.Despite all the crying I guarantee you there is someone in just about every class that can probably beat you no matter how good you are.   There is no one who is so good that someone can't school them occasionally.Rangers have Evac and Track, wizzies have manaburn, and manashield, warlocks have rift, furies have call of storms and hibernation, illusionists have group mezz, wardens have 3 roots, 4 if you take the wisdom aa line too, Templars wear plate, shadowknights have harm touch.<span style="color: #cc0000;">EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING THAT IS A WILD CARD.... leave the game alone and stop nerfing it.</span></blockquote>lolSome "wild card" -  there is nothing unpredictable about it. It is used all the time, and it does the same thing every time - teleport the player away from harm and to a spot where he can stand until for as long as he wants. </blockquote>So is it the evac itself, or the perma-immunity, or the lame "camp and come back in 15 minutes to refresh the timer" thing?  Because I think that most people would be hard-pressed to defend the removal of perma-immunity.  I still don't understand how 15 minutes of real-time not being actually played out somehow manages to apply to the refresh, and that applies to Harm Touch as well.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  But that's a different topic, just sharing a similar flaw.  But if the immunity and whacked-out refresh were fixed, would that satisfy?

[liveja]

<p>Since it seems like it's the "perma immunity" that is the problem, what would be wrong with removing the perma-immunity? Perhaps it should be more like a 30-second immunity, at best.</p><p>Perhaps it should be no immunity.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>So is it the evac itself, or the perma-immunity, or the lame "camp and come back in 15 minutes to refresh the timer" thing?  Because I think that most people would be hard-pressed to defend the removal of perma-immunity.  I still don't understand how 15 minutes of real-time not being actually played out somehow manages to apply to the refresh, and that applies to Harm Touch as well.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  But that's a different topic, just sharing a similar flaw.  But if the immunity and whacked-out refresh were fixed, would that satisfy?</blockquote>I've already stated about 20 times what I feel is the problem, and to be frank - it's both the things you mention. I usually solo, and everyone with evac goes *poof* as soon as I cast a spell on them if they don't get the first hit. It is a very powerful ability, espesially combined with track. If I get supriced by a scout, I'll never see him again for 30 minutes. I can forget about revenge, because I'll never find him again. And if I by an odd chance <i>do</i> see him - he will just evac and go AFK right in front of my nose, protected by everlasting immunity. It is also about the fame system and how much it favors those with an evac button. This would probably help:Suggestion #1: If you are hit by an enemy, you are put into combat. Meaning no extra runspeed, no zoning and no evac'ing. Would probably need to be combined with a change to the fame system, so that you don't lose fame by dying in PvP. That would take away some of the frustration from getting ganked, no? And evac could still be used for PvE purposes exactly the same way as before. Suggestion #2: Make evac longer cast, much easier to interrupt and on a 60 minute recast. Would at least cut down on some of the most rapid use, but then again it would of course affect the PvE. Also, remove the perma immunity and replace it with a 30 second timer. Suggestion #3: Give it to everyone. Then it would be more "fair" in a way, but it would probably just lead to even more evac'ing and less actual PvP. Which is why I think it is probably not a good idea. <span style="color: #cc0033;">Please note:</span> I'm not saying that all or ANY of these ideas would work. Perhaps just changing the fame system so that people no longer lose fame by dying, remove perma immunity and add some really nice rewards to encourage more PvP would help a lot, and cut down on the evac'ing.

[liveja]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Suggestion #1: If you are hit by an enemy, you are put into combat.</blockquote><p>That seems like a good option, too. I'm not sure why it isn't that way to begin with.</p><p>All I ask, however, is: whatever happens to Evac on PvP servers, *stays exclusively on PvP servers*. I'm sure that can be done fairly easily, so it doesn't worry me too much.</p>

[Norrsken]

Evac in pvp should be a blink type spell. And that should have been the first fix to begin with.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>So is it the evac itself, or the perma-immunity, or the lame "camp and come back in 15 minutes to refresh the timer" thing?  Because I think that most people would be hard-pressed to defend the removal of perma-immunity.  I still don't understand how 15 minutes of real-time not being actually played out somehow manages to apply to the refresh, and that applies to Harm Touch as well.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  But that's a different topic, just sharing a similar flaw.  But if the immunity and whacked-out refresh were fixed, would that satisfy?</blockquote>I've already stated about 20 times what I feel is the problem, and to be frank - it's both the things you mention. I usually solo, and everyone with evac goes *poof* as soon as I cast a spell on them if they don't get the first hit. It is a very powerful ability, espesially combined with track. If I get supriced by a scout, I'll never see him again for 30 minutes. I can forget about revenge, because I'll never find him again. And if I by an odd chance <i>do</i> see him - he will just evac and go AFK right in front of my nose, protected by everlasting immunity.It is also about the fame system and how much it favors those with an evac button. This would probably help:Suggestion #1: If you are hit by an enemy, you are put into combat. Meaning no extra runspeed, no zoning and no evac'ing. Would probably need to be combined with a change to the fame system, so that you don't lose fame by dying in PvP. That would take away some of the frustration from getting ganked, no? And evac could still be used for PvE purposes exactly the same way as before. Suggestion #2: Make evac longer cast, much easier to interrupt and on a 60 minute recast. Would at least cut down on some of the most rapid use, but then again it would of course affect the PvE. Also, remove the perma immunity and replace it with a 30 second timer. Suggestion #3: Give it to everyone. Then it would be more "fair" in a way, but it would probably just lead to even more evac'ing and less actual PvP. Which is why I think it is probably not a good idea. <span style="color: #cc0033;">Please note:</span> I'm not saying that all or ANY of these ideas would work. Perhaps just changing the fame system so that people no longer lose fame by dying, remove perma immunity and add some really nice rewards to encourage more PvP would help a lot, and cut down on the evac'ing. </blockquote><p>I was pretty sure that those were the main sticking points, but didn't want to put words in your mouth, so to speak.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The part about being put into combat as soon as you are hit would instantly give total advantage to whomever had more numbers.  6 toons run across 3 toons, the 3 run away.  Now, all you need is 1 of the 6 to sprint, get close enough to tag one of the mid-range enemy with a bow shot, then melee the closest one, and 2 of the 3 are locked in combat while the remaining 5 can send 2 off to catch the leader using the same strategy, and have 4 take down the slowed 2.  It would be worse than evac; it would guarantee your loss every single time you, or anyone else, gets caught by superior numbers.  Think raid <u>vs</u> group is bad enough now?  Exploited to the max within an hour of release, guaranteed.</p><p>I like #2 somewhat.  Longer <i>or</i> more interruptable.  Longer reset timer and 30 seconds of regroup time would be fine.  Let the dead suffer the consequences of being dead.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>#3, sooner or later somebody's going to bring up evac roots.  I really wish I still had that damned plant sometimes.</p>

[Tae]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>Suggestion #1: If you are hit by an enemy, you are put into combat.Suggestion #2:  Also, remove the perma immunity and replace it with a 30 second timer. Suggestion #3: Give it to everyone. Then it would be more "fair" in a way, but it would probably just lead to even more evac'ing and less actual PvP. Which is why I think it is probably not a good idea. </blockquote>Number 1 is a terrible solution. It would concentrate all combat around the fast travel in every zone even moreso than it is now. People would stand at pads and horses and griffons constantly spamming powers and every single person who lands/dismounts would just get instantly killed because they wouldn't be able to escape. And even without fame I'd find this annoying because I don't enjoy getting locked into combat and dying when I have absolutely no chance. Number 2 is fine with the perma immunity thing. Characters can run away from the evac spot, and 30 seconds of immunity will be enough for most people to escape to somewhere else if there are people camping. Number 3 is likewise horrible because as you said, nobody would e<i>ver</i> fight unless they knew they were going to win.

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #339900;">no i didnt even read the op much less the whole thread.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">evacuation is not teleportation and i think that is the problem.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">evacuation is what happens to the bowels of a dead body...after its been dead awhile or...during the process that has made the body dead. or something like that.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">it is also the act of getting hastily away.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the skill's effect ingame should reflect teh meaning of the name of the skill.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">it should severely enhance the ability(s) of all group members to get away...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">i would translate this into an incombat runspeed buff (a significant one in speed and duration) as well as a detargeting buff (that has at least half the duration of the speed buff) also...a state of stealth unimpeding runspeed for half the duration of teh runspeed buff.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">i would change what evac is, not remove it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">which is what ive said on this forum before..likely over a year ago.</span></p>

[Tae]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #339900;">i would translate this into an incombat runspeed buff (a significant one in speed and duration) as well as a detargeting buff (that has at least half the duration of the speed buff) also...a state of stealth unimpeding runspeed for half the duration of teh runspeed buff.</span><p><span style="color: #339900;">i would change what evac is, not remove it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">which is what ive said on this forum before..likely over a year ago.</span></p></blockquote>Which would utterly utterly ruin it for PvM purposes. And also is basically making it like Pact of the Cheetah.

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #339900;">we arent talking about pve are we?</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">dont all spells have a pve and a pvp description - seperately?</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">it is meant to allow people to get away...running is how humanoids move...is why i suggest an incombat runspeed buff - instead of a port</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">oh who cares...just whine about it another 20 frigging pages lol....</span></p>

[Mighty Melvor]

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900;">dont all spells have a pve and a pvp description - seperately?</span></p></blockquote><p>No, they dont.</p><p>Only some PvE skills have a nerf to them for PvP purposes.  But in essence, the skills function the same way.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>All except one of my skills has a PvP check-box... and they're all different.</p><p>Also, there's athread in the ranger forum which discusses PvE nerfs due to PvP, so far all they've got is the gnomish spring boots. So quit complaining about PvE nerfs, there aren't any meaningful ones!</p>

[Necromance]

<p>Remove evac or give it to all, i can't play in RoK zones, my necro can't catch up enemy, they use evac or run with super speed.</p><p>It's unreal run away too. One exit - play scout.</p><p>maybe you can introduce in game LoN loot-evac or something else pleeeeease <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>ps sorry for my english</p>

[Amphibia]

Many things in PvP right now are unfair to the point where a lot of people will say "screw this", and either quit the game, reroll a rogue or just become complete bluebies. The token system is one example, why punish groups like that? Why punish the duos and trios with 1 token pr. chest that they need to roll on, and make it so the strongest classes with the most PvP utility want to just run alone so they can gain tokens faster? Another good example is the fame system. Why punish those with no defense, no track and no evac? I've stopped going out alone with my frog because she has a dumb title again and I hate giving it away for free to those gank squads. Maybe I should just suicide a lot to get rid of it. And way to discourage solo PvP and PvP in general - people just don't like to see that "Your death has decreased your fame"-message, so they choose not to fight if there is even a slight chance they might lose. And then they press their evac button. Why is that stuff still in the game? Can we please at least be allowed to disable out titles, and all fame gain and loss if we don't want to participate in this stupidity? Speaking of evac, scouts get one that is nearly uninterruptable. But also the caster evacs are very easy to pull off. People do nothing but evac nowadays. When we find someone to fight, there is a 95% chance they're just going to evac. One has to focus mainly on how to stop people from evacing rather than how to win the fight. It is just annoying and boring. Why isn't this ability disabled on PvP servers?

[Necodem]

<p>-Remove evac from pvp server, or make it 10s cast, can't cast while moving.-Disable run speed while you are attacked. ( like in DAoC, when you receive dmg, it breaks speed )-Change the title system : no more fame lost, everyone run because of this; add a lvl pvp system ( giving title, PVP abilities ) and make it hard to lvl it up.-Lower the time of recent list ( ie : 15min )-Make people with revive sickness (but not from a rez ) doesn't get any pvp credit.</p><p>Better pvp for everyone.</p>

[Sightless]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>-Remove evac from pvp server, or make it 10s cast, can't cast while moving.-Disable run speed while you are attacked. ( like in DAoC, when you receive dmg, it breaks speed )-Change the title system : no more fame lost, everyone run because of this; add a lvl pvp system ( giving title, PVP abilities ) and make it hard to lvl it up.-Lower the time of recent list ( ie : 15min )-Make people with revive sickness (but not from a rez ) doesn't get any pvp credit.</p><p>Better pvp for everyone.</p></blockquote>Or, better PvP for you and your gank groups. I know you raced to 80 to kill greens who're taking their time, but eventually those greens will be white and will fight you on even terms, yet I saw how well you and Ajjantis fight on even terms. Aurora and Synter barely broke a sweat dispatching you two in Fens of Nathsar. There is nothing wrong with Evac, or run speed. Ask Ajjantis, he is a fury and can now attain 90%-100% run speed permanently, which is faster than a Ranger could ever attain. If you two can't catch people with that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Necodem]

<p>1 - I didn't raced to 80, but really easy to reach it. ( played 3 days after release, and only at night with friends )</p><p>2 - I solo a lot. 80% of people I found in pvp jus run away from me or evac ( zerk = no snare )</p><p>3 - Aurrora and Synter are pretty good, and if we were unstoppable, I would have quit eq2 for long, for being unchallanging.</p><p>4 - Ajjantis doesn't have 90-100% run speed.</p>

[Ballpin]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>2 - I solo a lot. 80% of people I found in pvp jus run away from me or evac <b>( zerk = no snare )</b></p></blockquote><p>Our hunker buff gives us a snare proc, but snares us in the process unless you max WIS line (prettymuch the only benefit of WIS line), and only procs if they hit you. So if you jump someone and they book it (which happens to us all too often), you're SOL. When did us zerkers get so good that people had to run from us, honestly? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I think the best way to go is to make evac an app1-m1 spell, and incorporate a failure % based on spell tier (something like 40% for app1 to 20% for m1). That, or just forget adding tiers to the spell and give it a static chance for failure.</p>

[NightLo]

I have a better idea...just boot every other player in the game besides me, so I can harvest in peace.

[Shadow_Viper]

<p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p></blockquote>If everyone shared your mindset, it would still have been possible to evac while in PvP combat, zone while in PvP combat and 90% of the playerbase (minus bots) would play a scout or druid because everyone who attempted to play something else would have quit or rerolled... wait.... I'm so glad you're not a developer.

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p></blockquote>If everyone shared your mindset, it would still have been possible to evac while in PvP combat, zone while in PvP combat and 90% of the playerbase (minus bots) would play a scout or druid because everyone who attempted to play something else would have quit or rerolled... wait.... I'm so glad you're not a developer. </blockquote>Let me guess, you tried to gank someone and they evaced from you. So instead of learning how to counter evacs, you decided it was a good idea to run to the forums and cry "nerf!" <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Amphibia]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p></blockquote>If everyone shared your mindset, it would still have been possible to evac while in PvP combat, zone while in PvP combat and 90% of the playerbase (minus bots) would play a scout or druid because everyone who attempted to play something else would have quit or rerolled... wait.... I'm so glad you're not a developer. </blockquote>Let me guess, you tried to gank someone and they evaced from you. So instead of learning how to counter evacs, you decided it was a good idea to run to the forums and cry "nerf!" <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes yes, last night i tried to GANK a brigand on my solo clothy! And he evacced!!! Imagine that....

[WeatherMan]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about no evac once HIT by an enemy. This will allow people to use evac as a convenience in instances and zones, but not deprive other players their <b>rightfully earned PvP kills</b>.</blockquote>This made me laugh.  Not your entire post, but the words in bold.The only 'rightfully earned' PvP kill you will ever get is the one you can actually pull off - and even then, that term may not apply depending on the circumstances which the kill was made.  Four or five people butchering a solo player?  Puh-leeze.  All that proves is that the group is interested in raw kills, and that the solo player was being careless.  That is a highlight of 'Tier 2 PvP' (note the emphasis).If your quarry evacs, runs away at top speed, jumps off a cliff to deny you the kill (I did this in PvP more than once - gawd, I laughed my butt off at the squawks I read on this board about that),or whatever, then you obviously weren't meant to have that kill.  Get over it.  I died at the hands of scouts more than any other class (brigands, mostly)...tough manure for me.  I got up, dusted myself off, and went on.They aren't going to nerf evac.  They just aren't.  That would take more programming than they're willing to invest in order for it to not dork over the PvE servers (which, believe it or not, are the cash cow for EQ2).  I know what it's like to quit PvP because of an infuriating game mechanic (although evac never really bothered me - I just accepted the fact that I didn't have it, and used what I <i>did</i> have) - if it bothers anyone <i>that</i> much, they should give it up.

[-Arctura-]

How about we just ask them for conveyor belts to tie Pvpers to, so they cant escape? Just sit at the end of your conveyor belt and wait for the helpless victims to be dumped onto your lap. Thats really what this thread is asking for, no? Lets just tie everyone down and force them into the log-cutting mill that is unescapable pvp combat. Well you must know that pvp combat cannot be forced upon anyone, everyone has and will always have methods of escape. Its the nature of balanced gameplay. Nobody pays to play Your game, they pay to play a game inwhich there is ample chance to avoid danger, as there is to engage in it. <span style="font-size: small;"><i><b><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: small;"> The whole point of pvp is to Test your know-how and wits,<u> by using the array of skills and traits you choose for your character.</u> If you are having trouble, modify your methods.</span></span> </b></i></span>

[Amphibia]

I think these conveyors belts are already in the game, for all mages except wizards. Ok, I'm done with this. Merry Christmas.

[Necodem]

<p>It's not about people evacing versus a group, but people evacing versus solo or grp evacing versus grp.</p><p>Someone evacing = afraid to die = making pvp boring. I know some people that will never ever fight solo unless they are 100% sure to have a easy kill.</p>

[Dh]

<p>Pasted this from different thread:</p><p>Some people like me have played many different classes and can really see what is wrong with the game. Scout evac for example can't be stopped by most classes once they start casting it. This is rediculous. People with track should not have an uninterruptable evac. I have played 70 Assassin and swash and now I'm playing a 59 ranger which will be 80 soon. </p><p>It makes no sense people cannot use Pact of the Cheetah and run away at high speed once getting hit in combat but people can just instantly disapear. People cannot cure a root or hit manashield to run away without getting put in combat but people can hit their uninterruptable evac that casts on the run and just disapear.</p><p>Evac needs to be interruptable at the very least and it should not finish casting while you are stunned.</p><p>The people that sit here and complain about people trying to make the game more fair for everyone are the ones that should be banned from the forums.</p>

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Pasted this from different thread:</p><p>Some people like me have played many different classes and can really see what is wrong with the game. Scout evac for example can't be stopped by most classes once they start casting it. This is rediculous. People with track should not have an uninterruptable evac. I have played 70 Assassin and swash and now I'm playing a 59 ranger which will be 80 soon. </p><p>It makes no sense people cannot use Pact of the Cheetah and run away at high speed once getting hit in combat but people can just instantly disapear. People cannot cure a root or hit manashield to run away without getting put in combat but people can hit their uninterruptable evac that casts on the run and just disapear.</p><p>Evac needs to be interruptable at the very least and it should not finish casting while you are stunned.</p><p>The people that sit here and complain about people trying to make the game more fair for everyone are the ones that should be banned from the forums.</p></blockquote>((Evac IS interruptable.They dont know what they are talking about.3 second casting time, interrupted very VERY easily.<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/Arctura000/Interrupt.gif" alt="" border="0" />And BTW to Mods / dev watchers.... 15+ pages does NOT mean this thread is a 'popular consensus among us gamers'... It usually just means the Op and one or two others continue to bump the thread by arguing out moot points. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> I would know, i started and maintained the Ranger nerf thread back in its heyday =P (( what was it, 20 pages? 30?))

[Dh]

<p>Grats you can make a misleading animated gif.  You should make TV advertisements for iMacs.</p><p>Im sure you are one of those scouts that evacs soon as someone hits them if the attacker isnt at 51% health. </p><p>Like I said, I am playing a 59 ranger (soon to be 80) and I have this evac button. You can cast it on the run.  The only way someone is going to stop you once you cast it is a mez or a stun/stifle then interrupt. Casters cant cast fast enough to stun then interrupt before the scout disapears. If you do interrupt then stun, the spell automaticly recasts and the stun doesn't prevent them from vanishing.</p><p>I know all about people evacing from running around on my 80 warlock. Every single scout that I see first and start running towards they will just evac. But I can't hit manashield and run away if they attack me first without being put in combat. At least with manashield you dont just disapear, you end up with no power and a caster with no power=dead anyways.</p><p>Scouts with track should never let people get close enough to them if they don't want to fight. They should not be able to run and cast evac, get stunned during the cast then still disapear while stunned.</p><p>Wardens have the perfect evac. You must stand still to cast and it won't finish while stunned. It can be stopped but it can also save your life. Scouts should get that type of evac.</p>

[Natthan]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Grats you can make a misleading animated gif.  You should make TV advertisements for iMacs.</p><p>Im sure you are one of those scouts that evacs soon as someone hits them if the attacker isnt at 51% health. </p><p>Like I said, I am playing a 59 ranger (soon to be 80) and I have this evac button. You can cast it on the run.  The only way someone is going to stop you once you cast it is a mez or a stun/stifle then interrupt. Casters cant cast fast enough to stun then interrupt before the scout disapears. If you do interrupt then stun, the spell automaticly recasts and the stun doesn't prevent them from vanishing.</p><p>I know all about people evacing from running around on my 80 warlock. Every single scout that I see first and start running towards they will just evac. But I can't hit manashield and run away if they attack me first without being put in combat. At least with manashield you dont just disapear, you end up with no power and a caster with no power=dead anyways.</p><p>Scouts with track should never let people get close enough to them if they don't want to fight. They should not be able to run and cast evac, get stunned during the cast then still disapear while stunned.</p><p>Wardens have the perfect evac. You must stand still to cast and it won't finish while stunned. It can be stopped but it can also save your life. Scouts should get that type of evac.</p></blockquote>As a matter of fact he is, Skree runs with 3 different evac's and would be lost if he could do it anymore. 1 of 2 things would happen:1. He would lose his title2. He would never leave the cityAlso, 3 Seconds is not super long. You can tell you only play a scout and it makes me laugh. Shaman group ward 5 Second cast, Cleric Group Reactive 5 second cast, The bigger hit Wizard and Warlock nukes are longer than 3 second cast.

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Grats you can make a misleading animated gif.  You should make TV advertisements for iMacs.</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Its not at all misleading. Evac can be interrupted, and you die. *unless you use evac for reasons <i>other</i> than to save your life*</span><p>Im sure you are one of those scouts that evacs soon as someone hits them if the attacker isnt at 51% health.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">No, i evac as soon as someone hits me, period, unless i asked for it by engaging them. (rules of pvp engagement</span>) </p><p>Like I said, I am playing a 59 ranger (soon to be 80) and I have this evac button. You can cast it on the run.  The only way someone is going to stop you once you cast it is a mez or a stun/stifle then <span style="font-size: medium;">interrupt</span>. Casters cant cast fast enough to stun <span style="font-size: medium;">then interrupt before the scout disapears</span>. If you do i<span style="font-size: medium;">nterrupt</span> then stun, the spell automaticly recasts and the stun <span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">doesn't prevent them from vanishing</span>.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #ff0000;">A very interesting opinion on how evac works. Lets see a fraps of this theory to lend it more credibility.</span></p><p>I know all about people evacing from running around on my 80 warlock. Every single scout that I see first and start running towards they will just evac. But I can't hit manashield and run away if they attack me first without being put in combat. At least with manashield you dont just disapear, you end up with no power and a caster with no power=dead anyways.</p><p>Scouts with track should never let people get close enough to them if they don't want to fight. They should not be able to run and cast evac, get stunned during the cast then still disapear while stunned.</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">They don't, but this is a very good guess></span><p>Wardens have the perfect evac. You must stand still to cast and it won't finish while stunned. It can be stopped but it can also save your life. Scouts should get that type of evac.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> I agree, scouts should get an additional type of evac, im glad you agree. They need a stationary evac as well, on a separate cool down timer.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> </span></p></blockquote>

[Natthan]

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Grats you can make a misleading animated gif.  You should make TV advertisements for iMacs.</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Its not at all misleading. Evac can be interrupted, and you die. *unless you use evac for reasons <i>other</i> than to save your life*</span><p>Im sure you are one of those scouts that evacs soon as someone hits them if the attacker isnt at 51% health.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">No, i evac as soon as someone hits me, period, unless i asked for it by engaging them. (rules of pvp engagement</span>) </p><p>Like I said, I am playing a 59 ranger (soon to be 80) and I have this evac button. You can cast it on the run.  The only way someone is going to stop you once you cast it is a mez or a stun/stifle then <span style="font-size: medium;">interrupt</span>. Casters cant cast fast enough to stun <span style="font-size: medium;">then interrupt before the scout disapears</span>. If you do i<span style="font-size: medium;">nterrupt</span> then stun, the spell automaticly recasts and the stun <span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">doesn't prevent them from vanishing</span>.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #ff0000;">A very interesting opinion on how evac works. Lets see a fraps of this theory to lend it more credibility.</span></p><p>I know all about people evacing from running around on my 80 warlock. Every single scout that I see first and start running towards they will just evac. But I can't hit manashield and run away if they attack me first without being put in combat. At least with manashield you dont just disapear, you end up with no power and a caster with no power=dead anyways.</p><p>Scouts with track should never let people get close enough to them if they don't want to fight. They should not be able to run and cast evac, get stunned during the cast then still disapear while stunned.</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">They don't, but this is a very good guess></span><p>Wardens have the perfect evac. You must stand still to cast and it won't finish while stunned. It can be stopped but it can also save your life. Scouts should get that type of evac.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> I agree, scouts should get an additional type of evac, im glad you agree. They need a stationary evac as well, on a separate cool down timer.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> </span></p></blockquote></blockquote>You CANNOT Stop scout evac with a stun, You have to hit them with it BEFORE they cast, Once its being cast, A Stifle, Stun, Interupt, Don't stop it.

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p></blockquote>If everyone shared your mindset, it would still have been possible to evac while in PvP combat, zone while in PvP combat and 90% of the playerbase (minus bots) would play a scout or druid because everyone who attempted to play something else would have quit or rerolled... wait.... I'm so glad you're not a developer. </blockquote>Let me guess, you tried to gank someone and they evaced from you. So instead of learning how to counter evacs, you decided it was a good idea to run to the forums and cry "nerf!" <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes yes, last night i tried to GANK a brigand on my solo clothy! And he evacced!!! Imagine that.... </blockquote>A clothy who is prepared and has taken the time to learn how to play their class well, can do great in solo PVP. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Darkor]

An scouts evac, once casted - can ONLY be interrupted with a mez, fear or charm. There is NO OTHER way to interrupt it as soon as its casted. Dont even get me started on the "interrupt" ability. We have tried them all, absolutaly nothing interrupted the scouts evac.

[Shadow_Viper]

Please further confirm this.

[Darkor]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please further confirm this.</blockquote>Its just a matter of time untill the first people come here and confirm it, i know what im talking about.

[Shadow_Viper]

<p>That's what I thought.  Point is evac is interruptable. Just because it isn't as easy to interrupt as some people would like doesn't mean if should be nerfed or changed. Stop whining. As I've said time and time again. All classes have their own DIFFERENT(imagine that) abilities, advantages and disadvantages. </p><p>Learn how to better play your class by using your class' abilites and advantages to exploit the disadvantages of an enemy class, instead of wasting time running to the forums crying nerf nerf, just because someone was able to evac from you. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please note the yous and yours are general. </p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Evac is fine as is. Stop running to the forums whining and calling "nerf" everytime some class defeats you(please note this a general 'you', referring to the complainers) in PVP. It is possible to counter evac, here is an idea, how about taking the time to learn how(honestly not that hard) rather than coming to the forums and making a whiner/nerf thread? </p><p>Said it once, and I'll continue to say it: <b><u><span style="font-size: large;color: #009900;">IFL2P</span></u></b></p></blockquote>If everyone shared your mindset, it would still have been possible to evac while in PvP combat, zone while in PvP combat and 90% of the playerbase (minus bots) would play a scout or druid because everyone who attempted to play something else would have quit or rerolled... wait.... I'm so glad you're not a developer. </blockquote>Let me guess, you tried to gank someone and they evaced from you. So instead of learning how to counter evacs, you decided it was a good idea to run to the forums and cry "nerf!" <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes yes, last night i tried to GANK a brigand on my solo clothy! And he evacced!!! Imagine that.... </blockquote>A clothy who is prepared and has taken the time to learn how to play their class well, can do great in solo PVP. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes, that explains why they choose to evac from me. It is clearly because I totally suck and never took any time to learn to play my class. You're a troll, go away.

[Darkor]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's what I thought.  Point is evac is interruptable. Just because it isn't as easy to interrupt as some people would like doesn't mean if should be nerfed or changed. Stop whining. As I've said time and time again. All classes have their own DIFFERENT(imagine that) abilities, advantages and disadvantages. </p><p>Learn how to better play your class by using your class' abilites and advantages to exploit the disadvantages of an enemy class, instead of wasting time running to the forums crying nerf nerf, just because someone was able to evac from you. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please note the yous and yours are general. </p></blockquote>Noone should have a free out of the jail card every 10-15 minuts, grp of 5 people evacing from my mate and me (only 2!) results in frustration. You joined a PvP Server, but want to decide when the pvp starts and when not. Fine, keep evac ingame. Make the recast atleast 45 minuts and have the timer start when the person leaves the immunity.

[Dh]

<p>I'm sure all the real PVPers, you know the ones that came to the servers to kill and be killed would like evac either interruptable or removed completely. The people that like the uninterruptable evacs are the people that have a higher PVP title because they evac from every single fair fight when the enemy isn't at 51% health and suck at killing in general. I have had all the high titles and they mean crap if you aren't having fun.</p><p>People just disapearing when you cannot even stop them with a stun is stupid. Go roll on PVE if you don't want to have the challenge of running or killing when the odds are against you. I played a 80 warlock for a long time without evac after playing scouts and I know all about getting ganked. Scouts have track so they should no reason to even evac. At the very least you should be able to stop a scout from evacing with a knockback just like wardens.</p><p>My 59 ranger will be my new main and I would like evac completely removed or at least made interruptable and cannot cast on the run. </p>

[Sightless]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's what I thought.  Point is evac is interruptable. Just because it isn't as easy to interrupt as some people would like doesn't mean if should be nerfed or changed. Stop whining. As I've said time and time again. All classes have their own DIFFERENT(imagine that) abilities, advantages and disadvantages. </p><p>Learn how to better play your class by using your class' abilites and advantages to exploit the disadvantages of an enemy class, instead of wasting time running to the forums crying nerf nerf, just because someone was able to evac from you. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please note the yous and yours are general. </p></blockquote>Noone should have a free out of the jail card every 10-15 minuts, grp of 5 people evacing from my mate and me (only 2!) results in frustration. You joined a PvP Server, but want to decide when the pvp starts and when not. Fine, keep evac ingame. Make the recast atleast 45 minuts and have the timer start when the person leaves the immunity. </blockquote>And Furies and Warden's don't deserve instant heals that saves them from deaths, or an instant AoE root/fear either.

[Dh]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's what I thought.  Point is evac is interruptable. Just because it isn't as easy to interrupt as some people would like doesn't mean if should be nerfed or changed. Stop whining. As I've said time and time again. All classes have their own DIFFERENT(imagine that) abilities, advantages and disadvantages. </p><p>Learn how to better play your class by using your class' abilites and advantages to exploit the disadvantages of an enemy class, instead of wasting time running to the forums crying nerf nerf, just because someone was able to evac from you. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please note the yous and yours are general. </p></blockquote>Noone should have a free out of the jail card every 10-15 minuts, grp of 5 people evacing from my mate and me (only 2!) results in frustration. You joined a PvP Server, but want to decide when the pvp starts and when not. Fine, keep evac ingame. Make the recast atleast 45 minuts and have the timer start when the person leaves the immunity. </blockquote>And Furies and Warden's don't deserve instant heals that saves them from deaths, or an instant AoE root/fear either.</blockquote><p>Healers don't deserve heals? I don't understand what you are saying.</p><p>This game would be much better without evac. Everyone knows it.  At least make it so you can attempt to stop someone evacing. I was wrong when I said you can stun then interrupt to stop a scout  from evacing. You must either mez or fear them. Stuns/interrupts/stifles only work on caster evacs. We are here to pvp not hit a scout 1 time and he disapears. How frustrating is it to run around without track and only find scouts solo that evac soon as you sneeze in their direction? </p>

[Zacarus]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>We are here to pvp not hit a scout 1 time and he disapears. How frustrating is it to run around without track and only find scouts solo that evac soon as you sneeze in their direction? </p></blockquote>I love it when people say, "MY fun is impacted by that class.  Fix THEM."

[Dh]

<p>I clearly stated that I play a ranger now. I have a master titled assassin on vox, a 58 swash on naggy and my my warlock will soon be a wizard. All of these classes have evac....</p><p>We are here to fight whats with people just disapearing. Its just not fun. If you like evac its because you think pvp titles actually mean something and think other people actually give a sht about what title you have.  No1 cares if you have a high title. </p><p>Its kinda lame you cannot use pact of the cheetah to escape, cure a root or snare, or hit manashield and run away without being put in combat but you can simply just disapear without the chance of being interrupted.  I believe thats what everyone on these 17 pages are saying</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I clearly stated that I play a ranger now. I have a master titled assassin on vox, a 58 swash on naggy and my my warlock will soon be a wizard. All of these classes have evac....</p><p>We are here to fight whats with people just disapearing. Its just not fun. If you like evac its because you think pvp titles actually mean something and think other people actually give a sht about what title you have.  No1 cares if you have a high title. </p><p>Its kinda lame you cannot use pact of the cheetah to escape, cure a root or snare, or hit manashield and run away without being put in combat but you can simply just disapear without the chance of being interrupted.  I believe thats what everyone on these 17 pages are saying</p></blockquote><p>Not everyone on these 17 pages, you can bet on that.  And sorry, playing classes with evac doesn't automatically give your opinion a higher value than any other person.</p><p>I'd rather see a 17 page post asking for necro help, or conjuror help.  I'd even agree with those topics.</p><p>Evac never killed anyone, never took anyone's fame, never even killed a clothie in 2 seconds flat. </p><p>Evac is available to almost everyone without even grouping with a scout class.  Several posts have even listed the ways this is possible.</p><p>Now when its possible for someone to come in here without a high KvD ratio, and say that evac has killed them over and over, THAT is when I will agree that it needs some changing.</p>

[Fluffypaws]

i think that evac is just one of things u have to deal with and get used to, it probably wont get a nerf and hoping it will get a nerf and/or complaining about it never solves anything it just creates bitterness and disliking within the forum