Tradeskill XP from writs - upcoming change

[Domino]

Just a heads up - as a number of people have noted in posts I'm not inclined to go digging for at the moment, the amount of XP granted for writs over about level 55-60 is a bit on the high side.  This was a side effect of a number of things, but was basically to do with the way quest XP scales up not matching smoothly with the way tradeskill XP scales up.With the release of Kunark that's going to be corrected, and you should see the tradeskill xp from writs becoming more consistent across the levels instead of jumping around as much.  In fact, lower level crafters should receive a little more xp from writs than they do now, and higher level players a little less.  Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap (this is the quest reward xp, above and beyond the xp you get for actually making the items).Between now and Kunark release the current xp rates will remain in place, so consider yourselves forewarned and feel free to take advantage of the higher xp at higher levels while it remain!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nuhus]

<p>GREAT! Domino, thank you! That sounds more like it should be. You just may get me out of the doom and gloom corner with your work on tradeskills! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Calthine]

Thanks for the warning!

[Jesdyr]

You know .. I had a whole post about leveling speed all typed up the other day and didnt post it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Yes .. It is Insanely fast rightnow. My tailor has been leveling since 30 on almost entirely rushorders. lvl 59-60 was done in about 25 min of crafting. I think she is getting 12%-13% bonus XP per writ rightnow at lvl 65 .. I would like to note that she currently has ~32,000 faction (something like 215 writs) with the dark bargainers and will hit 70 before hitting the 40k point which seems kinda wrong to me.

[Deson]

<cite>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>GREAT! Domino, thank you! That sounds more like it should be. You just may get me out of the doom and gloom corner with your work on tradeskills! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>*Sniffle* But then I'll be all alone...Then again, depending on the long term work RoK and after, the corner might just go obsolete. Thanks Evil Empress!

[Nuhus]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>*Sniffle* But then I'll be all alone...Then again, depending on the long term work RoK and after, the corner might just go obsolete. Thanks Evil Empress!</blockquote>Hehe, not jumping out yet. More along the same lines. I'll certainly give my negative opinion on tradeskills, so I think it's only fair I applaud changes I like. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[NiamiDenMother]

Thanks, as always, ma'am, for the lovely advanced warning!  We'll get those grumps out of their corners soon!  {tries to stuff Deson into a round Kelethin home, to avoid corners}  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rijacki]

Drat, I was waiting on RoK to do my bunches of tradeskill writs since that's when the status (for the guild) would do any good.    But... I really am glad for the change.  The leveling speed shouldn't be at warp (or even weft).

[Ottan]

<p>*looks at his list of crafters, then looks at time 'til Kunark*  Yup, I'll make it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Ottan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*looks at his list of crafters, then looks at time 'til Kunark*  Yup, I'll make it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>I was just doing that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Eriol]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap.</blockquote>If this is true, then writs will be worse than just straight crafting in the 67-68 range, and possibly the 57-58 ranges as well.  The "mid-tier" experience is really really bad due to the writs having most of their items in the x1-x3 range, with at most two items from the x4 range on that writ (depending on class, it can be only one of 6 combines from the x4 range).  You REALLY need to look at the levels writs are given, and what items they craft before nerfing the experience down IMO.  Giving a writ at the x7 set of levels or something (instead of x9) would help somewhat, but a nerf isn't good here.Personally I think it was between "just right" and "slightly too fast" on my provisioner in the 60s (no, I don't like it to take a month to get through a Tier as some others here apparently like), with the 40s on my Armourer being really really harsh (the extreme absence of hard metals due to MAJOR overconsumption is part of this), and thus should have been sped up, but from the rates you're mentioning, it's going to go DOWN, not up, or even stay the same.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Calthine]

Eh, you're kind of in the minority opinion, I think.  People were reporting ripping through half of T7 in 2-3 hours.  Too fast.  Even faster than my Sage on Pristines.

[Vodr]

Just as long as the curve helps you get to t6 faster I'm a happy camper,  I have spent WAY to many hours harvesting in EL and EF than I care to lol.  T7 in it's current incarnation is too fast,  2-3 nights and I went from 60-70 on my jewler.

[Myster]

I definitely have to agree that the rate of XP gain from tradeskill writs is too high in the T7 range.But I also have to agree with something Eriol said. The mid-tier area is a bit rough since you are doing the same writ from the x4 of the level all the way till x9, then you get the new tier writs the next level. A more even distribution would be very nice. Something like x0, x4, x8 or something along those lines would be much appreciated.( Of course, I'm still a fan of the original implementation of tradeskilling... if only they had bulk refines along with the cross-class books... But I think I'm an extreme minority there. =P )

[Oakum]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Drat, I was waiting on RoK to do my bunches of tradeskill writs since that's when the status (for the guild) would do any good.    But... I really am glad for the change.  The leveling speed shouldn't be at warp (or even weft).</blockquote>Same for me. It was too fast when I leveled my armorer and woodworker to help level the guild. I stopped on each when I reached max Ironforge faction. Still going to wait until for RoK to level more. Between me and my wife we have all that we really need right now. At least when she finishes maxing her weaponsmith.

[Ottan]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ottan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*looks at his list of crafters, then looks at time 'til Kunark*  Yup, I'll make it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>I was just doing that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Stalker!  What were you doing checking out my list of crafters. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ottan]

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap.</blockquote>If this is true, then writs will be worse than just straight crafting in the 67-68 range, and possibly the 57-58 ranges as well.  The "mid-tier" experience is really really bad due to the writs having most of their items in the x1-x3 range, with at most two items from the x4 range on that writ (depending on class, it can be only one of 6 combines from the x4 range).  You REALLY need to look at the levels writs are given, and what items they craft before nerfing the experience down IMO.  Giving a writ at the x7 set of levels or something (instead of x9) would help somewhat, but a nerf isn't good here.</blockquote><p>I just leveled my Weaponsmith from 57 to 58 today.  Started at 5% into the level, and made the pristine combines(10 total; 5 weapons, plus the imbued versions).  After that I finished three rush writs and hit 58.  So even if the amount of bonus exp is halved, I still think it's a boon.  I'm not sure if straight grinding on even level weapons would level quicker, but I like getting the status and the extra coin from doing writs, and doing 6 or 7 writs versus 3 or 4 is only adding another 15-20 minutes per level(for me at least) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Ottan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ottan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*looks at his list of crafters, then looks at time 'til Kunark*  Yup, I'll make it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>I was just doing that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Stalker!  What were you doing checking out my list of crafters. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Um.  nothing!  I swear!  I just like hiding in bushes!  No, really!

[Devilsbane]

Thanks for the forewarning Domino, although I am still waiting for the buff/counter changes before doing any more tradeskill. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Illmarr]

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap.</blockquote>If this is true, then writs will be worse than just straight crafting in the 67-68 range, and possibly the 57-58 ranges as well.  The "mid-tier" experience is really really bad due to the writs having most of their items in the x1-x3 range, with at most two items from the x4 range on that writ (depending on class, it can be only one of 6 combines from the x4 range).  You REALLY need to look at the levels writs are given, and what items they craft before nerfing the experience down IMO.  Giving a writ at the x7 set of levels or something (instead of x9) would help somewhat, but a nerf isn't good here.Personally I think it was between "just right" and "slightly too fast" on my provisioner in the 60s (no, I don't like it to take a month to get through a Tier as some others here apparently like), with the 40s on my Armourer being really really harsh (the extreme absence of hard metals due to MAJOR overconsumption is part of this), and thus should have been sped up, but from the rates you're mentioning, it's going to go DOWN, not up, or even stay the same.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I remember where it was writ (Pardon the pun) that writs were supposed to be THE way to level. I consider that a telling statement that the bonus is too high currently. It's broken currently in the opinion of most. If the worst that happens is that perhaps 3 of 10 levels of a tier see a slight decrease when compared to a straight grind of even con recipes with the bonus of gaining status and faction, we're still on the plus side of things. </p><p>Your comments about armorer and metals are only your experience, others have no issue at all, so let's put away the Wagner paint sprayer and take out the color by numbers paintbrush instead. From Domino's post, T5, which is what you are complaining about should see a small improvement if the curve is steady through each tier (10%-20's, 9%-30's 8%-40's 7%-50's, 6%-60's, 5%-70's). I got 7% for doing level 40 rush armorer writs at level 42.</p><p>Adding one more level of writs for each tier should make it so all recipes for a writ will con white at 50+ if my assumption above is incorrect and doing writs is supposed to be the best way to level.</p>

[Condar Tarsonia]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap.</blockquote>If this is true, then writs will be worse than just straight crafting in the 67-68 range, and possibly the 57-58 ranges as well.  The "mid-tier" experience is really really bad due to the writs having most of their items in the x1-x3 range, with at most two items from the x4 range on that writ (depending on class, it can be only one of 6 combines from the x4 range).  You REALLY need to look at the levels writs are given, and what items they craft before nerfing the experience down IMO.  Giving a writ at the x7 set of levels or something (instead of x9) would help somewhat, but a nerf isn't good here.Personally I think it was between "just right" and "slightly too fast" on my provisioner in the 60s (no, I don't like it to take a month to get through a Tier as some others here apparently like), with the 40s on my Armourer being really really harsh (the extreme absence of hard metals due to MAJOR overconsumption is part of this), and thus should have been sped up, but from the rates you're mentioning, it's going to go DOWN, not up, or even stay the same.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I remember where it was writ (Pardon the pun) that writs were supposed to be THE way to level. I consider that a telling statement that the bonus is too high currently. <span style="color: #cc3300;">It's broken currently in the opinion of most.</span> If the worst that happens is that perhaps 3 of 10 levels of a tier see a slight decrease when compared to a straight grind of even con recipes with the bonus of gaining status and faction, we're still on the plus side of things. </p><p><span style="color: #cc3300;">Your comments about armorer and metals are only your experience, others have no issue at all, so let's put away the Wagner paint sprayer and take out the color by numbers paintbrush instead.</span> From Domino's post, T5, which is what you are complaining about should see a small improvement if the curve is steady through each tier (10%-20's, 9%-30's 8%-40's 7%-50's, 6%-60's, 5%-70's). I got 7% for doing level 40 rush armorer writs at level 42.</p><p>Adding one more level of writs for each tier should make it so all recipes for a writ will con white at 50+ if my assumption above is incorrect and doing writs is supposed to be the best way to level.</p></blockquote>It never ceases to amaze me how people can make generalized statements for 'the majority' on their own, yet criticize others for doing the same <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />On that note, I don't consider tradeskill writs 'broken' by any means - I'd look at some other features of the game to flag as such.  I do agree though that advancement is way too fast in T7, as I think on my sage I was getting close to 14% or 15% bonus upon rush order writ completion.  At about level 66 or 67, I decided to just save the pristine discoveries for when RoK was released and level doing writs.  With minimal vitality, I was able to ding 70 in a very short amount of time in one night.Consequently, I like the change (and I tend to like just about everything Domino does) that is being made, as I completely agree with Eriol that hard metals in certain tiers are intrinsically more valuable based on their relative scarcity/desirability.  In fact, I saw a couple of assenting opinions on that topic in this thread, and there is an entire thread dedicated to just this topic, so maybe there is a point to what he's saying.  As a personal example, last night (on Everfrost, since I am sure server economies may also alter things slightly) feyiron (T4) was selling for roughly 35sp and feysteel was selling for about 40gp.  I spent 3 hours harvesting, and sold over 500 feyiron and about 9 feysteel for 5.5pp.  Later that night while raising my woodworker, I bought a large quantity of indium (T6) which was selling for 4sp, and there was plenty more selling at or near that price.  But hey, that's 'only my experience.' <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I also would like to see our x9 writ changed to x8, if only to spread out the progression a bit - it just seems like it would make more sense.Keep up the great work, and thanks for the heads up Domino! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Calthine]

<cite>Condar Tarsonia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I also would like to see our x9 writ changed to x8, if only to spread out the progression a bit - it just seems like it would make more sense.</blockquote>That's not a bad idea at all.  But remembering stuff Dymus told me when I did my TS Writ FAQ, I doubt it's as simple as it sounds.

[Nuhus]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Condar Tarsonia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I also would like to see our x9 writ changed to x8, if only to spread out the progression a bit - it just seems like it would make more sense.</blockquote>That's not a bad idea at all.  But remembering stuff Dymus told me when I did my TS Writ FAQ, I doubt it's as simple as it sounds.</blockquote>From what I can tell and from a very old change. Writ status is affected by your level vs the writ level, I think thats how it works anyways.

[TaleraRis]

I have to question why a larger bonus is given where it's less needed. It's in the higher levels where it becomes tougher to progress, in both experience and in availability of materials to progress with. Doesn't it make more sense to have the 5% end be where it begins and bump up from there, just at a more controlled pace? 10% is going to mean more in a tier where you're only getting from 3% to 5% for a pristine bonus, as opposed to lower tiers where my sage, for instance, was getting 13% to 15% for every first time pristine spell she made. It seems to me this will just make tradeskillers hurry up to the high levels so they can slow down, which seems backwards to the whole intent of putting any sort of experience bonus on writs in the first place. Oh, but do sign me up for some adjustments to the writ ranges. They're both stretched out too far right now, and some tiers of writs encompass too many books compared to other tiers of writs. Some evening out is needed, especially if a change like this is going to be made.

[Condar Tarsonia]

<cite>Gwyneth@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to question why a larger bonus is given where it's less needed. It's in the higher levels where it becomes tougher to progress, in both experience and in availability of materials to progress with. Doesn't it make more sense to have the 5% end be where it begins and bump up from there, just at a more controlled pace? 10% is going to mean more in a tier where you're only getting from 3% to 5% for a pristine bonus, as opposed to lower tiers where my sage, for instance, was getting 13% to 15% for every first time pristine spell she made. <span style="color: #cc3300;">It seems to me this will just make tradeskillers hurry up to the high levels so they can slow down, which seems backwards to the whole intent of putting any sort of experience bonus on writs in the first place. </span>Oh, but do sign me up for some adjustments to the writ ranges. They're both stretched out too far right now, and some tiers of writs encompass too many books compared to other tiers of writs. Some evening out is needed, especially if a change like this is going to be made.</blockquote>I understand your point completely here, and it was my initial reaction as well.  When you think about it though, it seems to be the more 'natural' type of progression, at least in this genre - as you level up, you are expected to have to invest more time and effort to reach the next highest level.  Right now, solely based on tradeskill writs, it's completely the opposite - you start off quite fast (T1, T2), taper off to somewhat slow (T3-T5), and then speed up to an insane pace again (T6, T7).  This just doesn't make sense.  Why?Well I was just reading a book on game design and game theory, and they had a nice little section on learning curves and difficulty curves.  Since tradeskills don't introduce new events to counter, or really anything significant aside from what you were thrown into right at the beginning, I'll ignore the difficulty curves part.  But the learning curves section seems like a nice fit here - the example provided was with a graph showing the skill (measured in catches per minute) of a juggler on the Y-axis and the time spent practicing on the X-axis.  In the beginning, a novice juggler can only do a small amount.  As they practice, they get better at a rapid pace, until they reach their plateau.  At this point, they can get better, but it takes an exponentially longer amount of time to do so.  While very simple, the concept can be applied here - a tradesman learning their trade would start off with the fundamentals and quickly learn how to make their basic items.  As they improve though, they need to spend longer amounts of time learning newer or more advanced techniques, or working with new materials, which requires far more time.A simple example that struck me as to the 'theory' behind the grind (although I probably explained it quite poorly) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Consequently, I agree that the change being made is the right one.Back to changing the writ ranges, I agree there is usually a lot of work behind what seems like it would be a 'simple' change, so I don't expect to see it anytime soon - but I would definitely be willing to take the minor hit in status as mentioned by dropping the x9 writs to x8 - that middle part of the tier doing writs seems to drag on forever <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Terron]

This sounds great.

[zaneluke]

5% exp for the rush writ3% for the 6 items you make in non vitality=8% per writ7 minutes per rush writ12-13 writs per levelso about 90 minutes per level. still very very easy. And I love it. I want it to remain easy so there are so many tradeskillers that making a huge profit off just tradeskilling will be hard. Gets more people out in to the adventure world where they should be.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Zahmekos]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, you're kind of in the minority opinion, I think.  People were reporting ripping through half of T7 in 2-3 hours.  Too fast.  Even faster than my Sage on Pristines.</blockquote>Don't you forget the time to harvest the raws? I have longer to harvest then to actually craft atm.In the adventuring world it would be like just buying collections and then say exp is too much^^

[Calthine]

<cite>Zahmekoses wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Don't you forget the time to harvest the raws? I have longer to harvest then to actually craft atm.</blockquote>And you always will, unless you choose to buy them.  Resource acquisition is part of the crafting game.

[Galldora]

<span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Thanks very much for the warning, Domino!  I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Zahmekos]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahmekoses wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Don't you forget the time to harvest the raws? I have longer to harvest then to actually craft atm.</blockquote>And you always will, unless you choose to buy them.  Resource acquisition is part of the crafting game.</blockquote>What I meant, therefore "<span class="postbody"><b>ripping through half of T7 in 2-3 hours.  Too fast.</b>" is not correct, because it hardly can also include harvesting time. Put also harvesting time in the calculation and it doesn't seem so fast. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span>

[Terron]

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I'm not rushing to level. The only time I did was when the plan was to remove imbues. My main has just reached level 68 Jeweler over two years since starting tradeskilling (though there was a  gap after LU24). There is nothing attractive to me in 69 or 70. I have a 57 alchemist I want to get to 58 for T6 poisons. I would like to get my 55 tailor up to making T6 woven armour (58?) but I need to be in the mood for some serious harvesting some day first. My woodworker is 50, and I will want to get her to 53 to start making T6 arrows in a couple of months time when my dirge will be high enough to use them. My carpenter is 38 and is likely to stay there until another toon needs to move to a large house, unless there is a rush on the boxes he has for sale. My provisioner is 35 and I'd like to get her to 37 for the apple recipe from EL. My other alt is a level 9 artisan because none of the other TS classes currently appeals to me.

[Eriol]

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Thank you!  I was about to make a post asking the same!

[Zerebro]

Aaah, ok.And could you consider to rearrange the levels of writs too?from x0, x4 and x9to something like x0, x4, x7?Cheers,-Z-

[FoxRiverRanger]

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I leveled my main character, a woodworker, on writs during the sub-combine era; and enjoyed the process.  I tried leveling a couple of alts by writs when the XP bonus was first introduced, and felt the leveling speed was too fast.  Since then I have not been doing writs on any character except my level capped woodworker.  After ROK I will try writs again with my alts.

[Kaycerzan]

Personally, I thought writs became *the* way to level after they took out all the sub-combine recipes.  That was a lot of bonus experience that disappeared.  That said, the amount of xp from doing the writ, considering they already give status and a nearly cash-free style of crafting is just a *tad* absurd. The only people I'm going to feel sorry for are the ones who are crafting the same item over and over and over because they only get 2-3 recipes at a time.

[Zayan]

<p>Levelling 60 to 70 was, by far, too fast.  I agree with that.  (Although admit it, it was fun to overstock on resources and then go.. wow.)</p><p>However, something that I did notice was that when you took an x4 writ, by the time you were x7 the amount of xp had decreased by.. quite a bit.</p><p>If the 74 writ now becomes 5%, will it then be 2% or 3% by the time we get to x7?  In that case, even without vit, it may end up being worth it more to do 6 combines with whites than 6 combines with blues + 2% from the writs.</p><p> I wholeheartedly support the x0 / x4 / x7 and maybe an x9 writ style.  Maybe just do it for the t8 ones so you're not revamping the whole thing?</p><p> And.. someone said.. I forgot who it was, that they miss the old old TS way.  I hear and understand, amen.  I miss being able to quickly level via 8 million pristines on a minimum of 6 craft stations.  I know, this makes it more accessible etc, and I must admit I've levelled more TSers this way than the old way.  Wait.. I think I've levelled about the same.  But the writs -  It sure makes it faster, grinding is rough - these writs make it worthwhile <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Illmarr]

<cite>Condar Tarsonia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although the numbers are not yet set in stone, it's most likely going to look like around 10% xp in your 20-30s, scaling slowly down to around 5% as you approach the level cap.</blockquote>If this is true, then writs will be worse than just straight crafting in the 67-68 range, and possibly the 57-58 ranges as well.  The "mid-tier" experience is really really bad due to the writs having most of their items in the x1-x3 range, with at most two items from the x4 range on that writ (depending on class, it can be only one of 6 combines from the x4 range).  You REALLY need to look at the levels writs are given, and what items they craft before nerfing the experience down IMO.  Giving a writ at the x7 set of levels or something (instead of x9) would help somewhat, but a nerf isn't good here.Personally I think it was between "just right" and "slightly too fast" on my provisioner in the 60s (no, I don't like it to take a month to get through a Tier as some others here apparently like), with the 40s on my Armourer being really really harsh (the extreme absence of hard metals due to MAJOR overconsumption is part of this), and thus should have been sped up, but from the rates you're mentioning, it's going to go DOWN, not up, or even stay the same.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I remember where it was writ (Pardon the pun) that writs were supposed to be THE way to level. I consider that a telling statement that the bonus is too high currently. <span style="color: #cc3300;">It's broken currently in the opinion of most.</span> <b><i><u>(EDIT: In the opinion of most posters in this thread)</u></i></b>I f the worst that happens is that perhaps 3 of 10 levels of a tier see a slight decrease when compared to a straight grind of even con recipes with the bonus of gaining status and faction, we're still on the plus side of things. </p><p><span style="color: #cc3300;">Your comments about armorer and metals are only your experience, others have no issue at all, so let's put away the Wagner paint sprayer and take out the color by numbers paintbrush instead.</span> From Domino's post, T5, which is what you are complaining about should see a small improvement if the curve is steady through each tier (10%-20's, 9%-30's 8%-40's 7%-50's, 6%-60's, 5%-70's). I got 7% for doing level 40 rush armorer writs at level 42.</p><p>Adding one more level of writs for each tier should make it so all recipes for a writ will con white at 50+ if my assumption above is incorrect and doing writs is supposed to be the best way to level.</p></blockquote>It never ceases to amaze me how people can make generalized statements for 'the majority' on their own, yet criticize others for doing the same <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />On that note, I don't consider tradeskill writs 'broken' by any means - I'd look at some other features of the game to flag as such.  I do agree though that advancement is way too fast in T7, as I think on my sage I was getting close to 14% or 15% bonus upon rush order writ completion.  At about level 66 or 67, I decided to just save the pristine discoveries for when RoK was released and level doing writs.  With minimal vitality, I was able to ding 70 in a very short amount of time in one night.Consequently, I like the change (and I tend to like just about everything Domino does) that is being made, as I completely agree with Eriol that hard metals in certain tiers are intrinsically more valuable based on their relative scarcity/desirability.  In fact, I saw a couple of assenting opinions on that topic in this thread, and there is an entire thread dedicated to just this topic, so maybe there is a point to what he's saying.  As a personal example, last night (on Everfrost, since I am sure server economies may also alter things slightly) feyiron (T4) was selling for roughly 35sp and feysteel was selling for about 40gp.  I spent 3 hours harvesting, and sold over 500 feyiron and about 9 feysteel for 5.5pp.  Later that night while raising my woodworker, I bought a large quantity of indium (T6) which was selling for 4sp, and there was plenty more selling at or near that price.  But hey, that's 'only my experience.' <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I also would like to see our x9 writ changed to x8, if only to spread out the progression a bit - it just seems like it would make more sense.Keep up the great work, and thanks for the heads up Domino! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>My bad, for the poor wording, thanks ever so much for pointing it out.</p><p>Don't confuse market factors with availability with regard to resources. Seems like you were able to procure plenty of  hard metal resources and made quite a tidy profit from it. The material is there, it's up to people to obtain it. If they can't/won't go harvest it, then prepare to pay for it. TANSTAFAL <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I wish you well</p>

[Zzikk]

I realize we are drifting off-topic, but I would like to throw my agreement in with balancing out the writs.I am new to crafting but it was very frustrating on my armorer to reach level 28 and only have 1 non rare recipe to get a pristine bonus on and only level 24 writs available.  Level 28 will take me roughly 4 times longer than it did to complete level 27, essentially making level 28 a h*ll level.

[ke'la]

Looks like I have to get my harvester out to Feerrott, LS, or EF and get to harvesting for my Carp. Dang I was hoping to skill up my new main's harvesting ablity, and have her harvest thier... well too bad... runs to Feer.

[Rijacki]

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Thanks very much for the warning, Domino!  I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I am neither waiting nor rushing to do them.  I have waaaaay too many other things to do before then (between work doing QA testing and other testing and leveling up a coercer to raiding and getting ready to update EQ2Alchemy for RoK and occassionally sneaking in time to eat, watch Heroes - both the DvD and the current season, and Dr Who & Torchwood & House, and occassionally manage to clean some of the apartment, and, and, and, and.. ghods am I glad I don't have kids *laugh*). I was totally tongue in cheek with my "complaint" back on page one.I do still, however, plan to do writs in my infinite spare time after RoK goes live to help the guild level (but on which server is -that- question), this change isn't changing my plans, the XP bonus wasn't really a factor in the plans, jsut an extra boon.  I leveled Rijacki to 60 in alchemy in the old subcombine days and to 40+ before the cross crafting books were even part of the game (I don't remember when she hit 50 in relation to those, but I -think- it was before they were added).  I also harvested in the days when you might find a rare after DAYS of heavy harvesting (as in 4-6 hours a day of just harvesting when you could still have 3 nothings found and the node go poof even with a skill far above the max skill for the node). I was even at level 70 in alchemy before the tradeskill writs made their return.Meh. *shrugs*I even walked to school in the snow, up hill, both ways... or something like that.  Or whatever.

[Goemoe]

Those rushed writs hurt the crafting, if you ask me. Please strip the game of rushed writs. It is good enough to do 12 items, earning XP and status for it. You don't get rushed CTs for adventueres either. It would help to get the level speed of crafters back down to where it should be. I do like the xp new to the crafting writs and I appreciate the change coming with RoK as well, but I still don't like rush writs.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Goemoe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those rushed writs hurt the crafting, if you ask me. Please strip the game of rushed writs. It is good enough to do 12 items, earning XP and status for it. You don't get rushed CTs for adventueres either. It would help to get the level speed of crafters back down to where it should be. I do like the xp new to the crafting writs and I appreciate the change coming with RoK as well, but I still don't like rush writs.</blockquote>roll a tailor (or any other high root user for that matter) and harvesting roots in t6 will more than make up for the fast lvling....

[Terron]

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Personally, I thought writs became *the* way to level after they took out all the sub-combine recipes.  That was a lot of bonus experience that disappeared.  </blockquote>Writs were removed at the same time as sub-combines. They were added back in several months later (significantly improved). As I am concerned "the" way to level a crafter is by making stuff to use or sell.

[Zerebro]

<cite>Zhiitake@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aaah, ok.And could you consider to rearrange the levels of writs too?from x0, x4 and x9to something like x0, x4, x7?Cheers,-Z-</blockquote>Having said this, it would make the x8 levels less h*llish if the xp on writs is going down again. Ask any woodworker or crafter with only a few items per new level (<u>including</u> the mastercrafts)

[Avanya]

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Thanks very much for the warning, Domino!  I'm wondering -- of all the people who are complaining that leveling is too fast now, how many of those same folks are rushing to level their characters before the change?  Is anyone planning to wait until after ROK, now that they know they will have the opportunity to level slower then? </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>LOL.  I would guess that most of the people who complained about this issue also used it to full advantage and will continue to do so until it is changed.  That's the nature of human beings I guess.  I'm also guessing (just speculating) that a number of these people are also sage/jeweler/alchemist.</p><p>Now, first of all, I actually do agree that the exp from writs at least between 60 to 70 has been a bit much.  It's the only thing that finally motivated me to get that last 6 levels in prov that I had been putting off for months due to the time it took to just get one level done.  I figured that eventually it would be lowered.  I am just hoping that it is not "fixed" too much in the opposite direction.</p><p>Having played a sage for a while, wow, how lucky you guys are.  I never dreamed you all had so many pristines per level.  Try playing a class that has 1 or 2.  You'll see what I'm talking about.  If I remember correctly, part of the reason for the writs and raising the exp for them was to balance this gross inconsistancy between classes that have enough pristines to pristine through a full level and classes that have to create 1 or 2 items over and over through a full level.  I also remember reading (will find it later, I just woke up) that sages might still find grinding with pristines more advantageous or equal to doing writs (as it should be imo).</p><p>Domino you have been awesome, truly.  I can't remember any dev playing such an active and visible roll in any particular area of the game.  I hope that you will keep this inbalance, between classes in regards to pristines per level, in mind when you are making these changes.  Though, as I stated, I did find the exp a bit much....it was nice to feel that I could level as fast as "spell" TS classes. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks as always!</p>

[Condar Tarsonia]

Hmm, the people who do any tradeskill writs at all could be accused of using tradeskill writs "to full advantage" - who is going to pass up the free experience bonus if it's there?  It's also not going to be disappearing - it will simply follow a more natural progression.  I'm sure there are some people who pass up writs for this reason, like those who turn off adventure experience to see more of the game while it's still a challenge, but tradeskills and adventuring are inherently different imo - in one, I'm visiting new locales, braving new challenges and monsters, and overall find it much more exciting, which is part of the reward.  In the other, my challenge is to keep my eyes open long enough to not burn myself at the forge or stove, or stick myself with a sewing needle.  The reward for crafting, in my opinion, is finding your key or niche market, to make the most profit - which <i>seems</i> to appeal to more of a minority <i>compared to </i>adventuring.  Consequently, it seems the best money is made in later levels, so there is a natural rush to reach the end.<hijack> Next, can someone please explain to me what this crazed obsession is with comparing everything to scholars - in particular, sages?  I have a 70 Sage, 70 Alchemist, and 5X Woodworker, and helped raise a 70 Provisioner.  I will be the first to admit - levels FLEW by on my Sage, and were relatively quick on my Alchemist (although I was about 40 when they did away with inks and subcombines).  Do you know much money my Sage has made?  Honestly, I'd put it in the gold pieces for profit.  Most of the time, I get a request from a close friend for an odd Adept 3, and then I charge them fuels (and they of course supply the materials).  Other people I actually charge, but the market is not as large as one would think since it seems everyone has leveled 2 Sages on their accounts, and can do as my friends do if they aren't one of them - ask another friend to make it free.On the other hand, my Woodworker makes a tidy profit, and on his way through the levels (which are slower in comparison, but still not bad with writs) has <i>easily</i> made several platinum in profit from sales of the items that actually useful (and needed more often), including ammunition and totems in particular.  So I have played an equal number of scholar and non-scholar tradeskill classes - and while scholars have an inherent advantage at leveling speed, the others easily make more of a profit, imo.  I consider that a nice trade-off, so please explain what this terrible issue is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  If every class is changed to reach level 70 overnight, will everyone be happy?  Then you can be completely self-sufficient, but tradeskilling for any form of profit will be obsolete - instead harvested material prices will be through the roof, since everyone will need them, you'll have more problems with cherry-pickers, and "most of the people" who aren't-scholars-but-complain-about-them will be wanting changes to level their adventurers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </hijack>Finally, as noted in a prior post, I found doing (rush-order) writs in T7 the way to go - I was low on vitality, and it simply seemed quicker and didn't use up nearly as much.  This seems to go against exactly what you want, and is why this change was requested when writs were reintroduced.  So no, all of us scholars are not evil after all <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Tokam]

Obviously the writ xp bonus in its previous form was completely unbalancing, and needed to be changed in order to prevent people having 3 lvl 80 tradeskillers on the day of RoK release.It still looks to me as if it will be possible to level 70 - 80 in 12 hours or so on the day of release, so the fun of competing to be the first level X crafter for a particular tradeskill on your server or worldwide has gone. The X9 writs still need moving to X7 in order to slow people down a little more come the new expansion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Willias]

Level 60 to 70 WAS way to fast on my armorer.  Then again, I think I was getting 12 to 15% exp per writ (not including exp gained from making items).That's too high.On the other hand, I feel that 5% is too low.  Starting at 11% when you first get the writ, and then scaling down to 7% when you're almost to the next writ would be about right, IMO.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously the writ xp bonus in its previous form was completely unbalancing, and needed to be changed in order to prevent people having 3 lvl 80 tradeskillers on the day of RoK release.It still looks to me as if it will be possible to level 70 - 80 in 12 hours or so on the day of release, so the fun of competing to be the first level X crafter for a particular tradeskill on your server or worldwide has gone. The X9 writs still need moving to X7 in order to slow people down a little more come the new expansion <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>the harvesting will slow it down massively... afterall, in t8 you wont be able to raid the broker and fill 6 32 slot bags with raws which cost 1 copper each....  (atleast for the first 3 days or so crafters will actually have to harvest)

[Tokam]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously the writ xp bonus in its previous form was completely unbalancing, and needed to be changed in order to prevent people having 3 lvl 80 tradeskillers on the day of RoK release.It still looks to me as if it will be possible to level 70 - 80 in 12 hours or so on the day of release, so the fun of competing to be the first level X crafter for a particular tradeskill on your server or worldwide has gone. The X9 writs still need moving to X7 in order to slow people down a little more come the new expansion <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>the harvesting will slow it down massively... afterall, in t8 you wont be able to raid the broker and fill 6 32 slot bags with raws which cost 1 copper each....  (atleast for the first 3 days or so crafters will actually have to harvest)</blockquote>The harvesting wont slow down anyone that has thought to make some preparations. The obvious route is to grind to 80 on the day of release using the lvl 69 writ, and buying small amounts of T8 raws from the broker / guildies along the way for item discoveries / xp.Personally I have 8 x 32 x 5 bank slots all full of t7 raws ready for RoK, I don't really anticipate slowing myself down with t8 writs, indeed why would I bother? This isnt a tactic that should be open to me and the t7 writs should become unavailable sooner into t8 to stop me side stepping the harvesting issue and getting to 80 so easily.I'll abuse the system in any way I can (without breaking the eula) while the opportunity is there, but I cant help wishing that it was going to be a bit more like the grind to 70.

[Calthine]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'll abuse the system in any way I can (without breaking the eula) while the opportunity is there, but I cant help wishing that it was going to be a bit more like the grind to 70.</blockquote>At the risk of being called An Old Person, you wouldn't want to grind to 70 the way I did it, lol.

[Tokam]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'll abuse the system in any way I can (without breaking the eula) while the opportunity is there, but I cant help wishing that it was going to be a bit more like the grind to 70.</blockquote>At the risk of being called An Old Person, you wouldn't want to grind to 70 the way I did it, lol.</blockquote>Hehe I remember my grind to 70 being kinda fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hadn't really thought to put much effort into any prep, and I declined my beta invite because I didnt want to spoil the surprise. Come KoS day I remember all my guildies running out to explore the new places while I sat in tokas house and crafted, great!RL work was keeping me busy so I only had time for a bit of crafting each weekday evening (and of course harvesting, oh gazer isle how I dont miss you...), come the weekend I was only 64.something. The pull of the dungeons was getting pretty strong so I decided to race the npu guys to 70. I had a late night on friday an early start on saturday and I hit 70 about 1pm on sunday. I beat the silly adventurers to 70, ate the biggest pizza Ive ever seen in my life (from somewhere that was open at 5am on sunday morning...) Also I discovered that if I dripped pizza crust dipping sauce onto my keyboard I could bung it in the dishwasher and it would work perfectly (and be clean!) afterwards <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CrazyMoogle]

How about just leaving it where it's at since lowering the amount of experience gained adds absolutely nothing of value to the game.Let's focus on changes that improve game play instead.

[zaneluke]

I will say again and until i am blue in the face.<span style="color: #cc0000;">Crafting should be easy.It should not make you rich.The devs need to focus on game play that will attract more players to the game, it is dying right now.I think there are a good amount of hardcore crafters that sell thier plat. <span style="color: #000000;">I know this view is unpopular and i could go in to the facts behind my "therory"But changing peoples mind on it would be like trying to convery a diehard dem to a repub right now. </span></span>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>CrazyMoogle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about just leaving it where it's at since lowering the amount of experience gained adds absolutely nothing of value to the game.Let's focus on changes that improve game play instead.</blockquote>going from lvl 69 to lvl 70 in about 15-20min is WAY too fast. I did this the other day with my tailor and I just couldnt believe it. If you level only off of Rushorders the "new writ" levels take no time at all.

[Maroger]

<cite>CrazyMoogle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about just leaving it where it's at since lowering the amount of experience gained adds absolutely nothing of value to the game.Let's focus on changes that improve game play instead.</blockquote><p>I think the nerf to writ XP will turn Tradeskills back into a deadly grind for the non-scholar classes. I really don't think this is a helpful or positive change. </p><p>There was nothing wrong with it - but a few hardcores whined and wanted the XP reduced -- so now everyone get hurt but just a few who have already taken advantage of the announcement.</p><p>I think Tradeskilling in Kunark will really suck - it will be just the old grind of making useless items that no one wants. </p>

[Homebrewer]

I’ve read though this thread and I’m amused by the discussions of tradeskill XP. Back in the day before KoS you had to make all the pieces-parts and then combine them. Tradeskill writs only gave you status and no XP. In many ways I see the change in tradeskills over the years as a dumbing down to accommodate the masses. Back then, people that crafted had to really want it and it tested your patience to get to the highest levels. Now don’t get me wrong, I like doing the single combines when I have a few suits of armor to make. It sure saves me a lot of time. On the other hand, having the easy way to level creates a lot of competition and you just can’t get as good a return on investment for your craft as you otherwise might. But, it has become what it is and most of the folks seem to like it and I’ll continue to craft no matter what it becomes in the future. So, enjoy your XP and think about how easy you have it compared to those of us who started crafting in 2004 when the game launched. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Homebrewer wrote:</cite><blockquote>On the other hand, having the easy way to level creates a lot of competition and you just can’t get as good a return on investment for your craft as you otherwise might. </blockquote>I think the fallacy that leads to such controversy over the leveling speed is that there's far too much of a focus on distinguishing crafters from each other by level. Taking out that issue means that there is more room to expound upon the idea of distinguishing crafters by effort, such as the additions involving faction. I think the system we should be striving for is not to make some classes a grind and others amazingly easy and focus on level, but to have a relatively even leveling path for all classes and by exerting other effort in their tradeskill they can set themselves apart and bring value to what they do.

[Jacobian21]

<p>Well after reading 4 pages of replies on this thread... I'm sure I'm in the minory, but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents.  I think the biggest issues with the new exp "nerfs" for higher tier crafting is the cost. (at least for those of us too lazy or uninterested in spending all that time harvesting)  And as for the fast leveling.. I think it's fun to fly <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  It might be a "fake" accomplishment, but I think it's more fun than the grinding we'll have to do now with RoK, especially with crafting the same 2-4 items over and over for a few levels.  (like with the x0 writs, and for Provies and such)</p><p>Also, I still don't understand why the price in fuels skyrocketed between T7 and T8?? I mean, c'mon 1p for a stack of fuel? That's 3 times the amount it costs in T7, and about 5 times what it cost in T6.  The jump from T6 to T7 in fuel costs was like... 1.5x I think.  So I think perhaps that should be looked at.  </p><p>And the use of x9 writs seems almost silly because you only really use them for one level and then switch to the next tier (at least before RoK I did because it gave more exp for completing the writ).  They might prove more useful and make more sense if they were modified as previously suggested (either x7 or x8 instead).</p><p> Hehe, I also freaked out when I signed on last night to find all my crafting buttons in disarray!  It took me like 10-15 minutes to rearrange them the way I liked them in my knowledge window.</p><p> So that's my 2 cents (try not to burn me too much for it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> ).</p>

[ZeroRavesOn]

<cite>Jacobian21 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well after reading 4 pages of replies on this thread... I'm sure I'm in the minory, but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents.  I think the biggest issues with the new exp "nerfs" for higher tier crafting is the cost. (at least for those of us too lazy or uninterested in spending all that time harvesting)  And as for the fast leveling.. I think it's fun to fly <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  It might be a "fake" accomplishment, but I think it's more fun than the grinding we'll have to do now with RoK, especially with crafting the same 2-4 items over and over for a few levels.  (like with the x0 writs, and for Provies and such)</p><p>Also, I still don't understand why the price in fuels skyrocketed between T7 and T8?? I mean, c'mon 1p for a stack of fuel? That's 3 times the amount it costs in T7, and about 5 times what it cost in T6.  The jump from T6 to T7 in fuel costs was like... 1.5x I think.  So I think perhaps that should be looked at. </p></blockquote>The costs went up, but the number required per recipe went down.  The rosewood Bo Staff too 10 acrylia sandpaper (10*34s56c= 3g 45s 60c) while the Redwood Bo Staff takes 5 silicate sandpaper (5*1g=5g) so the increase is now only about 1.6912x more expensive.Reason for the change: one stack of sandpapers before would yield 20 combines (200/10=20 combines) while one stack of sandpaper now is 40 combines (200/5=40combines).  So it does balance out.  The cost of common raws on the broker, on the other hand, is an issue I personally am concerned about, but thats really outside of Domino's control.

[Jacobian21]

Oh, I didn't really take that into account, since I don't have any T8 recipes yet so I haven't actually been able to see what they require.  I just heard how much fuels cost for T8 and assumed that the crafting ingredient requirements would resemble T7. (my bad)  (p.s. - I Miss Kiana! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I wonder if she remembers me after a year or so of me being away from the game)