There are banner Ad on eq2player that could jeopardize acounts!

[Ogrebe]

As i mentioned in <a href="http://ogrebear.com/?p=244" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">my blog</a> there are now Banner ad at the bottom of the eq2player web site (not the forums).Since the banner ad are hosted by a third party there is a chance that a virus or a keylogger might make it in to the banner ad.This has happened before to <a href="http://wow.allakhazam.com/news/sdetail6363.html?story=6363" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Allakhazam</a> before, it has happened to <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86698217&sid=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">guild portal</a>. It now can happen to eq2players.What make this worse is if an effected ad with a keylogger is able to get in to your system. The first thing most of us do is click the Sign in button. SO they first thing the keylog will be able to report back is your eq2 username and password.This means hundreds, maybe even thousands of Accounts could be in jeopardy, if an ad is made for the specific purpose of stealing username and passwords!How can SoE prevent a ad with a Keylogger when the ads are hosted by a third party?Can you guarantee the safety of our accounts? If not, will your remove the ads?

[Gnobrin]

<p>Sorry for the worry, Ogrebear.  The web team reviews the advertisements that you see on the station pages in question (it's all of them across SOE, not just EQIIPlayers) to ensure there's no foul-play.  The adverts aren't netted in, they're permitted to be shown.  Your account information is perfectly fine.  Remember too, if you ever have any questions, you can simply ask the admins about it and we'll be happy to help.  There's no need for the "oh noes!!" post.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[kelesia]

I PAY for that service.  MAKE IT STOP.  It's inconcievable that SOE would put ads on this service?[Removed for Content] were you thinking?  If your gonna put ads on it, make it free.  When you PAY for a service you EXPECT it to be Ad-free.Thank you for the ninja change not announced anywhere.  BOO ON YOU SOE!

[Grimwell]

Dude, you so totally didn't call 'ninja' on that did you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Hellswrath]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dude, you so totally didn't call 'ninja' on that did you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>lol, he did.  But he isn't really wrong, either (albeit a tad dramatic <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ).  It wasn't announced, and it <i>is</i> expected that a paid service is advertisement free (at least once you log in).That being said, I'd even be ok with this if it meant we can start getting a webteam that only has to work on this site instead of balancing 3 sites.  This site still has a long list of broken features, features that have been "Coming Soon" for quite some time, and even functionality that has been lost for nearly a year now.  We haven't even had a real update in about 4 and a half months.Having the first real change in the site since then be putting ads on the site is bound to upset people who have been waiting for positive progress.Personally, I think that if we see an update that is a complete fix before the release of RoK and we aren't trying to deal with broken features over a year after the revamp, that people will just be happy to have everything working and all functionality restored.

[Vonotar]

These Ad's make me laugh Saw an Ad for the Sun newspaper on the main Everquest 2 page the other week... like any reader of the Sun knows what an MMO is! Unless we're adding topless ladies and celebrity gossip to norrath.

[kelesia]

Two things, One, Grimm, I'm a girl.  So yeah I'm probably a little dramatic.  And two, I hate ads with a passion. For all the reasons the original poster points out. And yes, I do consider this a ninja change. I considerany change that is bound to upset a large portion of the user base a ninja change.To the poster above me (the one talking about broken features)  Yes, it would be fantabulous if the dratted thing were fixed. However, I don't expect it to be and I really don't expect the dratted ads to go away.  I might be content if they went away when I log in (considering I pay for the service on two of my accounts).   I don't like ads. I think they are tacky, ugly and break the cohesion of a page. I think they are a [Removed for Content] poor way of bringing in new customers. I'd also like to point out that I attended the marketing panel and no where was ads mentioned during fanfair.  Grimm, can YOU tell us that the ads will go away when we log in or will you and your reps continue to laugh this off?  Because honestly, that isn't the right tack to handling a problem that annoys your customers.Just my two cents, because I really really really hate ads and I use this site a lot. (2-4 times a day).

[EomerFarst]

<p>Why do SoE need banner ads anywahy ? It makes EQ2 look cheap and tacky like Runescape lol.</p><p>Did they really lose so many subs from SWG that banners are needed to make up costs ? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Leatherneck]

<cite>Magnamundian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unless we're adding topless ladies and celebrity gossip to norrath.</blockquote>Could we perhaps get both at the same time? 

[Ogrebe]

Well i don't mind ads (at long as there not that annoys "You won a free ipod nano .. you all heard it) or the one that covers the page). Which these are not.And since SOE is at least checking them there is some safety in place so i am fine with the ad. I was worried that SoE had just signed up with a 3rd party and didn't really check the ad, but as said above they do. So i am not worried any more.

[Grimwell]

I most certainly can't say that the ads are going to go away for anyone, paid subscriber or not. I can (and will) share your thoughts with the team who handles these pages, and make sure that they know your sentiments, but I can't promise anything in terms of a change. And, to be honest, you aren't being laughed off. Yes, I did giggle when 'ninja' was invoked over a web page. I don't often think of them in terms of nerfing, but I do understand the analogy you are trying to make there. Web advertisements are definitely an item where some people are going to hate them. I sure won't deny that, and don't want you to think I don't take your feedback to the web team because I was thrown off by ninja.I do, and will continue to do so. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[InsertNeko]

I can only assume then, as I'm paying an extra $2.99 a month for eq2players.com add ons that now since these ads are there, i will no longer have to pay the $2.99 for the features? If I'm going to be forced to see ads I don't want and/or need, that you obviously don't need my revenue ... or conversely, I'm paying an extra $2.99 a month for a service and I do not want to see these ads. Either point of view works. So if the ads continue, then I see no need to continue paying the $2.99 since I'll get ads either way. It's a shame that $2.99 isn't a lot of money to SOE, or I'd actually have some bargaining room <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Stinky123]

I know I am not "angry" about these adds, I do however think that it is extremely unprofessional to have ads on a site that people actually pay for.  I also think that in the long run it will hurt subscriptions, I know I would not think of "paying" for a game that has advertisements on its main page.  I understand that it is a form of revenue for SOE and is pretty easy to implement, however, if you are going to keep with the advertisements, I know I will cancel my subscription to eq2players as that is the only reason I go to any soe webpage other then to change my password.  If however, you insist on keeping the banner since you obviously need the money, then I suggest the web team hunker down and make the banner actually blend into the webpage better.  Simply pasting a rectangular default add into the html is pretty horrid, it may not look perfect but mainly a  little less nasty.  Currently the main page looks like something my 12 year old threw together in computer class (I am not putting anyones skill down here, but I do think alot more time needs to be spent implementing the adds if they are going to stay).

[Rench]

<p>Whats next? Pop-ups on station sites? heheh had to say it. </p><p>They don't bother me to much really. Just looks bad/cheap. And to have them on subscribed accounts is just another <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Kind of unsettling to see tho. Are they really hurting for $$ this bad?</p>

[Vonotar]

<cite>Rench wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Whats next? Pop-ups on station sites? heheh had to say it. </p><p>They don't bother me to much really. Just looks bad/cheap. And to have them on subscribed accounts is just another <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Kind of unsettling to see tho. Are they really hurting for $$ this bad?</p></blockquote>Seen Smiley Central on EQ2Players, can't wait for when people are complaining about slow systems due to this adware [I cannot control my vocabulary].Bad enough that my lady relatives keep wanting to download 'bonzai buddy' cos it 'cute and free'.  Fed up of getting skeptical looks every time I try and explain that they are free because they gather background information and send it on to an ad companies servers.  If your supposedly filtering the adverts, can you filter off these performance destroying electronic 'cute' viruses and stick with proper ad's.  I'd much rather see what the latest washing machine is going for at Comet than see this sort of crud./recommend Spybot - Search & Destroy

[Phaldyne]

<p>I can just see the customer support call now.....</p><ul><li>Customer: So, the game runs really slow as of late.  Can you help?</li><li>CSR: Have you installed anything new to your computer recently?</li><li>Customer: No.  However, I did click this ad on the EQ2Players website and I now get free smilies from this cute little icon in the system tray.</li><li>CSR: That's called adware.  You need to uninstall that application.</li><li>Customer: But you promoted it on your website.  Why should I remove it?</li><li>CSR: Because it'll slow your computer down.</li><li>Customer: So SOE doesn't have faith, belief or trust in the companies they promote?</li><li>System Message: Your session has been ended by the CSR.</li></ul><p>Tons of websites on the internet have banner ads and stuff.  It's a great way for websites to make money.  However, most websites offer a ad-free version of their website through paid subscription.  Allakhazam's website was the first website I ever actually spent money on in order to eliminate the banner ads and was happy enough to even pay for the 6-month subscriptions since it was nicer.  I agree with the people around here about paid subscriptions.  I pay extra for the EQ2Players bonus content.  There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to get an ad-free version of the website once I log in as well.</p><p>-Phaldyne</p>

[Petgroup]

There is a test server for Everquest 2. Tons of exploits and unintended game mechanics make there way onto live after "weeks" of testing.Following suit, you think you guys have control over banner ads? Wait till a disgruntled employee leaves or someone gets lazy.Its only a matter of time before someone who visits your website gets infected. Its foolish to think otherwise.

[Ndi]

firefox and ad-block plus, what a lovely couple <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Azigon]

<cite>Xndienx@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>firefox and ad-block plus, what a lovely couple <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY:)" /></blockquote>Agreed, people should use that + disable Sun Java and Flash while on the web.Either that, or use a (K)ubuntu machine for browsing the web.Whatcha gonna do, keylog my linux?! ;)

[shalom]

<p>Hmmm...you guys need to chill...it's obvious what's going on....</p><p> The banner ads are just a ninja-beta for the new in-game pop-up ads for tradeskillers.</p><p>Soon, just as your healer is about to cast a deathsave on you a pop-up will fill her screennotifying her she's 'just won the Freedom of Mind Potion of her choice!'.  There will of coursebe small print explaining that first she'll need to participate in a short tour of the baubbleshire'snew condos.</p><p>Come'on guys...SOE's got us covered...where's the love? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Freydinessa]

<cite>shalom wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hmmm...you guys need to chill...it's obvious what's going on....</p><p> The banner ads are just a ninja-beta for the new in-game pop-up ads for tradeskillers.</p><p>Soon, just as your healer is about to cast a deathsave on you a pop-up will fill her screennotifying her she's 'just won the Freedom of Mind Potion of her choice!'.  There will of coursebe small print explaining that first she'll need to participate in a short tour of the baubbleshire'snew condos.</p><p>Come'on guys...SOE's got us covered...where's the love? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Lol, agreed. Talk about your doom-and-gloom merchants. Last time i checked anyway, the stationplayers home page was a public site Anyway. My god, if they can get a bit more revenue to help fund improvements to this game and others. What is the problem? SOE's assured us it's safe. So accept that. Go and unleash your anger on that pesky Orc that just keeps laughing at you as you run by. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[retro_guy]

OMG ROTFL I'm the 1,000,000th customer! What's the chance of that!

[GwenRelentless]

What?! But it said I'm the 1,000,000th customer!!! LIES!

[Zabella]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Sorry for the worry, Ogrebear.  The web team reviews the advertisements that you see on the station pages in question (it's all of them across SOE, not just EQIIPlayers) to ensure there's no foul-play.  The adverts aren't netted in, they're permitted to be shown.  Your account information is perfectly fine.  Remember too, if you ever have any questions, you can simply ask the admins about it and we'll be happy to help.  There's no need for the "oh noes!!" post.</p><p>~Gnobrin</p></blockquote>Interesting that the adverts are "reviewed" and "permitted" by said web team, and very reassuring that our "account information is perfectly fine.". Though, question does come to mind concerning the validity of this comment when the mentioned advertisements actually advertise and link to a competitors game.Example:<img src="http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc124/zpg_photos/eq2_players.jpg" alt="" border="0" />Unless, of course this is SOE's intention, and the advert shown above has been "reviewed" and "permitted", then I can agree that there is no need for the "oh noes" posts. One step forward, three steps back.

[cr0wangel]

I didn't notice the adds since I use Firefox and I block them, but I checked with Internet Explorer and that look ugly. SOE official sites don't need cheap adds, it looks like they need money or something and decided to put cheap adds to fill the blank. That look bad and I would remove it OR put adds only about SOE games, services, or whatever. Not random adds about Internet quiz, smiley or other stupid things no one want to see. That was a bad decision of the webmaster.

[teddyboy4]

ROFL @ the LOTRO ad on EQ2players, that is too funny and ironic for words and REALLY makes me feel comfortable that the ads are reviewed and given the "official" ok.Anyway, it is pretty ridiculous that there are banner ads on EQ2players, or any other SOE site for that matter. It would be one thing if the ads were for SOE/Sony products b/c that's an internal thing, but these are regular adds on sites that we PAY for. We shouldn't have to deal with ads on sites that we pay for access to the features on them. If EQ2players was a free service like the WoW armory, it still wouldn't be acceptable b/c it's part of our monthly subscription. But there being ads on a site THAT WE PAY EXTRA above and beyond our monthly fee is just flat-out reprehensible and you people should be embarrassed for "double dipping" as it were.

[Zahmekos]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>We shouldn't have to deal with ads on sites that we pay for access to the features on them. If EQ2players was a free service like the WoW armory, it still wouldn't be acceptable b/c it's part of our monthly subscription. But there being ads on a site THAT WE PAY EXTRA above and beyond our monthly fee is just flat-out reprehensible and you people should be embarrassed for "double dipping" as it were. </blockquote>If just this extra features would work !!!!I guess they need the adds to get some money to actually can pay someone to fix the extras^^

[Sabatini]

<p>These ads either need to be removed or you need to stop charging us. Its just rediculous that I'm paying for advertisements from an unknown and untrusted 3rd party source. One of the reason I use Players over fansites is the lack of advertisements. I should feel safe logging into it. And I dont.</p><p>It needs to stop. Now. Get rid of these banners!</p>

[Harpax]

<p>This may be old news, but after mentioning it to some guildmates they were suprised to see them as well.  The other day I went to the site to check some things out and my system started grinding.  Turns out IE was having a fit over a rotating banner ad at the bottom of the screen.  I hit reload and the banner ad actually spawned a popup that both IE and Google Toolbar didn't catch.  </p><p>One of the folks I mentioned it to actually noticed that if you go to your character inventory screen on eq2players, and try to view some of the equipment in their profiel.  The pop up for the equipment spawned UNDER the ad, making it impossible to read.</p><p>I mean come on, this isn't a third party Fansite.  You can only guess at what type of conclusions were being brought up regarding these ad's.</p>

[Dark_Grue]

<cite>Harpax wrote:</cite><blockquote>This may be old news, but after mentioning it to some guildmates they were suprised to see them as well.</blockquote><p>You're right, it's old (and not particularly encouraging) news. You missed two threads alone on the front page of this very forum on this very topic:</p><p>From the unecessarily alarmist:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=385724" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">There are banner Ad on eq2player that could jeopardize acounts!</a></p><p>to the more pertinent question of:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=385887" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Why are there ads when I look at EQ2Players when I paid extra for it?</a></p><p><cite>Harpax wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You can only guess at what type of conclusions were being brought up regarding these ad's.</blockquote><p>Nope, I think the discussion (both in the Forums and amounst the players in other venues) have pretty much covered the entire breadth of possibilities. Hilarity ensues. Oh, wait, this isn't a FOX sitcom. I meant to say, <i>deep-seated consumer resentment ensues</i>.</p><p>BTW, I happen to agree with you, I think the change was asinine.</p>

[Hellswrath]

Ok, I have enough problems with advertisements on a paid service such as this<i>.</i>  That is bad enough.  Especially since they are mostly the annoying and classless "You are the millionth customer" type.  I am honestly surprised that the website staff (more likely the team who is in charge of it, as I don't think the staff has been empowered to do so) has not weeded out such bad advertisements.  That is a matter that has already been discussed.However, I just got an attempted pop-up add from tribal fusion when I visited the page today.  Pop-up ads on a paid service.<i>ENTIRELY UNACCEPTABLE.</i>Whoever is in charge of this should reconsider their decision.<i></i>Please address this as soon as possible, as it will definitely drive away your customer base.  No one feels safe on a site with pop-ups.<span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span>

[teddyboy4]

Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous and entirely unacceptable IMHO, check out <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=385724#4370857" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">my post</a> from this <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=385724" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thread</a> in which the situation is discussed w/ commentary from Grimwell and othersFor those too lazy to click the link:<span class="postbody">Anyway, it is pretty ridiculous that there are banner ads on EQ2players, or any other SOE site for that matter. It would be one thing if the ads were for SOE/Sony products b/c that's an internal thing, but these are regular adds on sites that we PAY for. We shouldn't have to deal with ads on sites that we pay for access to the features on them. If EQ2players was a free service like the WoW armory, it still wouldn't be acceptable b/c it's part of our monthly subscription. But there being ads on a site THAT WE PAY EXTRA above and beyond our monthly fee is just flat-out reprehensible and you people should be embarrassed for "double dipping" as it were. </span> <div align="right"> </div>

[Hellswrath]

While the normal advertisements are a problem on their own, it is the pop ups alone that I am concerned with for this thread.I understand that Grimwell already said that he can only pass on our feedback to the team in charge of them, and I can appreciate that.  As such, I consider my feedback on the banners issue to have been given to the proper channels and hope some QA can occur on the ads because of our feedback.However, allowing third party advertisements to generate any pop-up ads is a great deal different than banners.  This type of advertisement can cause an entire customer base to label the site as dangerous, and I would hate to see this happen on the verge of it being completed.  EQ2Players has great potential, but this may have a serious impact on the willingness of the game population to use it.

[jonathanc29]

<p>Ok if you are going to bomb me with ads, then the services offered on the eq2players site should be free. Very ugly of sony putting ads up everywhere. Have they taken that big of a loss of players they need to suplement with ads? </p><p>Whats next NPC's that spew ads when you get close to them? Or opening chests takes you to a sponser site before you can loot? LOL you must complete 3 offers on page 1, 2 offers on page 2, and 1 offer on page 3 before you can loot your master 1 spell.</p>

[ignition]

I'd say you should probably QQ more.

[Lantis]

<cite>Orcinus@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok if you are going to bomb me with ads, then the services offered on the eq2players site should be free. Very ugly of sony putting ads up everywhere. Have they taken that big of a loss of players they need to suplement with ads? </p><p>Whats next NPC's that spew ads when you get close to them? Or opening chests takes you to a sponser site before you can loot? LOL you must complete 3 offers on page 1, 2 offers on page 2, and 1 offer on page 3 before you can loot your master 1 spell.</p></blockquote>We already have LoN MOTDs, LoN System Messages, and LoN loot.  That's close enough to in-game ads if you ask me, considering that LoN and EQ2 are (supposed to be?) two different products...But back on the topic of eq2players ads: yes, I agree that having you pay for this service AND having you to suffer through ads is bad.  But if it hadn't been posted in these forums, I would never have even noticed there were ads now.  Firefox + AdBlock took care of that for me.  Similar solutions also exist for other browsers in case Firefox ain't your cup of tea.Now, are ad-blockers ethical?  You be the judge.  Personally, I find my mental well-being more important than their ads revenue.  TV spots are every 10 mins - but website ads are every page click.  So it's up to them: they let me block the ads, or they pay my psychologist's consultation bills.  Thanks to them, I'm always afraid when I close the lights at night that a monkey wearing boxing gloves might come from under my bed to beat the hell out of me.  I also have nightmares about winning the lottery every 5 mins, only to find out that I have to move to Nigeria first to claim my prize.

[Hellswrath]

I didn't actually get the pop-up at first because I do have a pop-up blocker.  But I couldn't figure out why I would get a pop-up on EQ2Players, so I enabled them briefly to see what it was.  I figured it was some new feature they had coming that either involved an activeX control or they were routing pm's on the forums through to you when you signed in on EQ2Players.  Long and short was that I figured it was something useful.  I was truly surprised to find it was a pop-up ad.  Hence the post.On a side note, I agree with you about the LoN spam using the system messages being a poor decision, Lantis.Edit:  However, you're on your own against the evil monkey with boxing gloves. . . I have my hands full with the one wielding tambourines.

[Hellswrath]

Well, apparently pop-up ads are considered to be at the same type of advertising as normal banner ads because that thread has been merged with this one.I strongly disagree with such, but <i>c’est la vie</i>.  If the response given already about the banner ads applies to the pop-up ones as well, then I will refrain from posting any further on my own about the issue.

[SOE-Jabru]

Pop Up ads are not meant to be present on our sites.  We are seeing them too, and removing the associated advertisers as they come up.

[Hellswrath]

Thank you, Jabru.  It is good to know it is being worked on.

[Farrudanu]

<cite>SOE-Jabru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pop Up ads are not meant to be present on our sites.  We are seeing them too, and removing the associated advertisers as they come up.</blockquote>Why not remove all ads from EQ2Players? Everyone's problem's solved!

[Galeden]

Ok, I wasn't happy when ads were added to eq2players, but this morning things went too far, the page that the PATCHER loads has a popup ad!  I started running the patcher then suddenly got a popup at the lower left of my screen, and I thought I had a virus or something, then I realized it happened after I started the patcher and it tried to load the eq2players info (which btw doesn't show up now again, no characters are listed not sure why).  Has anyone else gotten this?  The patcher in no way at all should load popups from other websites.

[Tevali]

<cite>Galeden wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I wasn't happy when ads were added to eq2players, but this morning things went too far, the page that the PATCHER loads has a popup ad!  I started running the patcher then suddenly got a popup at the lower left of my screen, and I thought I had a virus or something, then I realized it happened after I started the patcher and it tried to load the eq2players info (which btw doesn't show up now again, no characters are listed not sure why).  Has anyone else gotten this?  The patcher in no way at all should load popups from other websites.</blockquote>At least I had script errors related to the launcher-website, which I never had before. Blocked Pop-Ups could be the reason.We are used to advertisments (e.g. the splash screens on game start), but here a line is crossed. Something a paid service shouldn't need.

[Zerebro]

Ads? What ads. Oh wait, no adblocker?Had to disable Adblocker (http://adblockplus.org/en/) to see what you were talking about. Eeeew! Nasty. A good reason to use Firefox with a free and decent blocker.If you dont want to, add the source of this adverts: <a href="http://cgm.adbureau.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cgm.adbureau.net</a> to your localhost file and redirect it to 127.0.0.1 or something. Anyway, enough tricks to get rid of it.My 2 advert free eurocents,-Z-

[Dark_Grue]

<cite>Zhiitake@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Had to disable Adblocker (http://adblockplus.org/en/) to see what you were talking about. Eeeew! Nasty. A good reason to use Firefox with a free and decent blocker.</blockquote><p>I don't believe you can choose to use Firefox if they're using banner ads in the Patcher, as reported.</p><hr /><p>There's an article on Wired as well. Summary follows:</p><p><i>"The worst-case scenario used to be that online ads are pesky, memory-draining distractions. But a new batch of banner ads is much more sinister: They hijack personal computers and bully users until they agree to buy antivirus software. And the ads do their dirty work even if you don't click on them.The malware-spiked ads have been spotted on various legitimate websites, ranging from the British magazine The Economist to baseball's MLB.com to the Canada.com news portal. Hackers are using deceptive practices and tricky Flash programming to get their ads onto legitimate sites by way of DoubleClick's DART program. Web publishers use the DoubleClick-hosted platform to manage advertising inventory."</i></p><p>Betsy Schiffman, "<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick" target="_blank">Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC</a>," November 15, 2007</p><p>Slashdot commentary is <a rel="nofollow" href="http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/19/1517209.shtml" target="_blank">here</a>.</p><p>The new attack uses the DoubleClick DART Program as its distribution mechanism, and can attack users even if they do not interact with the ads (no clicks are required for the ads to deliver their payloads).</p><p><cite>SOE-Jabru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Pop Up ads are not meant to be present on our sites.  We are seeing them too, and removing the associated advertisers as they come up.</blockquote><p>Even if one were to accept that the intrusive ads are acceptable business practice for a pay service such as EQ2Players and EQ2 (the complaints voiced here would appear to indicate that they are not), SoE has demonstrated no capability to detect and deal with this particular type of attack before it impacts customers. Although the DoubleClick DART Program is specifically involved in this particular attack, there is no assurance that other services are not, or will not, be targeted in the near future.</p><p>For example, if a tainted banner ad makes it into the advertising stream that services EQ2Players.com, that ad will infect tens of thousands of EQ2 users like wildfire. Involving banner ads in the Patcher merely expands the scope of the problem and ensures even faster propagation. Removing the ad after the fact (asumming that such an event can even be reliably detected) is an untenable security practice.</p><hr /><cite>Farrudanu wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why not remove all ads from EQ2Players? Everyone's problem's solved!</blockquote>Why not indeed? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. As you suggest, removing the ads entirely covers all possible contingencies with 100% assurance.

[Drakael]

<cite>SOE-Jabru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pop Up ads are not meant to be present on our sites.  We are seeing them too, and removing the associated advertisers as they come up.</blockquote><p>Well, add "Red Robin" to your list.  I would like to put my two cents in with everyone else here and say that if I am paying for a site, and paying for extra features above and beyond a game that I also pay for, i should not have to see adds.</p><p> but this red robin add, and several others I have noticed are evil.  If you accidentally slide your mouse over it, the banner expands into an almost-pop up (i.e. gets larger and covers more of the screen), and <b>STEALS FOCUS</b> from the page! That's right, you can't do anything until you hit "[x] Close" on the add. And I've noticed that this add is stealing focus as soon as the page loads, without mousing over it!</p><p>This is hugely unacceptable. I run several of my own web-sites and refuse to put adds on any of them, the least Sony could do is remove them for paying customers!</p>

[Zerebro]

<cite>Dark_Grue wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhiitake@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Had to disable Adblocker (http://adblockplus.org/en/) to see what you were talking about. Eeeew! Nasty. A good reason to use Firefox with a free and decent blocker.</blockquote><p>I don't believe you can choose to use Firefox if they're using banner ads in the Patcher, as reported.</p></blockquote>I was probably not clear, but since this is thread about the EQ2Players.com website and there, when I disable blockers in FF, I see the ads. I wasn't talking about the right frame in the patcher with ads. For me, I don't mind, I never notice them. I'll start screaming when I HAVE to push an ad to continue. That would be mere click fraud but I think that will be too paranoid imho.Cheers,-Z-

[Griffildur]

<p>There should be NO  ads / popups on a service we pay for. As simple as that. The other solution is keep the ads but remove the monthly fee.</p><p>There is no third way here.</p>

[Xagoth]

<cite>SOE-Jabru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pop Up ads are not meant to be present on our sites.  We are seeing them too, and removing the associated advertisers as they come up.</blockquote>How did they make it on there in the first place, if you are monitoring every ad before it goes on EQ2Players?Sorry, this is unacceptable.Every day, people out there are figuring out better/worse ways to get spyware/adware and virus' on our computers.I can not believe you would subject your customers to even a SLIGHT chance at getting a virus through banners. And to say you are sure they are safe, is complete garbage. If you are so sure, how did the pop-ups get through?I guarantee, someone is going to get a virus through some other means and blame your website. Is that the kind of publicity you want?Wow, SoE, you have become SO greedy.....Let me guess what is coming soon. Ad free EQ2Players for only an additional 5$ a month!

[Perzephone]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I will say that I still get them even on Firefox and here at work! ITs getting to the point of annyance! Yes we have them on CR but at least they dont POP UP in the middle of the screen and in front of the news! I dont' mind if there adverts for other SOE games or products but other MMOs???!?!?!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Seriously! Grim can you please let them know that this is causing a serious problem since We all do pay for this site and service why should we have to enure the annoyance of the ads for? </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Heck even ever since the RoK came out we been experiencing alot of login issues or zoning issues. Why the adverts on the site that we do pay for?</span></p>

[Morningside]

You can read Grimwell's response to this issue in the following thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=392741�" target="_blank">Link</a><hr /><b></b><span class="postbody"><b>"SOE is not sending pop-up's through the launcher. You will see one pop-up to tell you that you can buy Rise of Kunark, but nothing from other companies.That said, the launcher pulls an IE web page as a part of it's launch, so if you have any spyware on your machine, this could trigger it and cause a pop up that we aren't calling. Also, while we do have banner advertisements on our websites, even those do not call pop-ups for advertisements. If you see anything like that, you may want to check for spyware on your machine.If any of our advertisers try to sneak in a pop-up, we will be shutting them down as we don't want to cause this kind of interruption.Hopefully that helps some."</b></span><div align="right"> </div> <hr />

[willnotuse]

<cite>Morningside wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can read Grimwell's response to this issue in the following thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=392741�" target="_blank">Link</a><hr /><b></b><span class="postbody"><b>"SOE is not sending pop-up's through the launcher. You will see one pop-up to tell you that you can buy Rise of Kunark, but nothing from other companies.</b></span><div align="right"> </div> <hr /></blockquote>Which if the thread is read in entirety I proved the statement incorrect as did others.  I will say though that the issue had since been fixed since it originally showed up.  But yes, bad idea to point to where I even tested it under Linux.

[Zerebro]

<cite>willnotuse wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morningside wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can read Grimwell's response to this issue in the following thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=392741�" target="_blank">Link</a><hr /><b></b><span class="postbody"><b>"SOE is not sending pop-up's through the launcher. You will see one pop-up to tell you that you can buy Rise of Kunark, but nothing from other companies.</b></span><div align="right"> </div> <hr /></blockquote>Which if the thread is read in entirety I proved the statement incorrect as did others.  I will say though that the issue had since been fixed since it originally showed up.  But yes, bad idea to point to where I even tested it under Linux.</blockquote>It is probably the next paragraph that might give a cause: <span class="postbody"><span class="postbody"><b><i>"If any of our advertisers try to sneak in a pop-up, we will be shutting them down as we don't want to cause this kind of interruption.</i>"</b>So, if there's a pop-up, write down the destination URL and report? This ofcourse should never happen, since SOE will test every single advertiser during the whole campaign of that advertiser.....<b></b></span></span>

[Hellswrath]

<cite>Morningside wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can read Grimwell's response to this issue in the following thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=392741�" target="_blank">Link</a><hr /><b></b><span class="postbody"><b>"SOE is not sending pop-up's through the launcher. You will see one pop-up to tell you that you can buy Rise of Kunark, but nothing from other companies.That said, the launcher pulls an IE web page as a part of it's launch, so if you have any spyware on your machine, this could trigger it and cause a pop up that we aren't calling. Also, while we do have banner advertisements on our websites, even those do not call pop-ups for advertisements. If you see anything like that, you may want to check for spyware on your machine.If any of our advertisers try to sneak in a pop-up, we will be shutting them down as we don't want to cause this kind of interruption.Hopefully that helps some."</b></span><div align="right"> </div> <hr /></blockquote>Thank you for the link, Morningside.What would really help this issue is to completely remove ads from the website and the launcher, since these are paid services.  Or, at the <i>very</i> least, remove them once we have logged into the website.  Even fan sites that have no other income than ads can do this properly.

[Rqron]

Well, it is pretty easy,Vote with your pocket book. Unsubscribe from the service. Have all your guildies and friends unsubscribe until the adds and pop ups are removed.The only thing SOE  understands is the mighty god called money. It looks like the powers to be don't give a rats  butt how we feel about the issue. So lets show them what we can do and lets all UNSUBSCRIBE until it is fixed. Lets see how fast the advertisers pull the adds if nobody watches them.J.C.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, it is pretty easy,Vote with your pocket book. Unsubscribe from the service. Have all your guildies and friends unsubscribe until the adds and pop ups are removed.The only thing SOE  understands is the mighty god called money. It looks like the powers to be don't give a rats  butt how we feel about the issue. So lets show them what we can do and lets all UNSUBSCRIBE until it is fixed. Lets see how fast the advertisers pull the adds if nobody watches them.J.C.</blockquote>Funny enough, if subscriptions drop I suspect that Sony will put even more adverts up to make up the lost revenue.

[Hellswrath]

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, it is pretty easy,Vote with your pocket book. Unsubscribe from the service. Have all your guildies and friends unsubscribe until the adds and pop ups are removed.The only thing SOE  understands is the mighty god called money. It looks like the powers to be don't give a rats  butt how we feel about the issue. So lets show them what we can do and lets all UNSUBSCRIBE until it is fixed. Lets see how fast the advertisers pull the adds if nobody watches them.J.C.</blockquote>Funny enough, if subscriptions drop I suspect that Sony will put even more adverts up to make up the lost revenue.</blockquote>Honestly, that is very likely.  I would not be surprised to learn that the current ads were placed on the site in order to make up for the revenue lost when everyone started canceling this service a year ago after the revamp.  I know quite a few who canceled because of all the bugs and slow fixes.

[Rqron]

Yeah it is most likely that there will be more adds **at first** if people start to unsubscribe but there will be a point if EVERYONE unsubscribed that the add companies most likely will NOT be interested to to advertise on the site ..unless of course someone forges site statistics. Advertisers are not stupid they will not pay money where there is low traffic or no target audience left...and trust me there are advertisers subscribing to the service that read the forums too, they need to to prevent fraud. Any exposure even negative in a forum is good for them but no exposure is death. All it takes is  players make up they're minds and come together for the goal to get rid of them.J.C.

[Dark_Grue]

<cite>Morningside wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can read Grimwell's response to this issue in the following thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=392741�" target="_blank">Link</a><hr /><b></b><span class="postbody"><b>If any of our advertisers try to sneak in a pop-up, we will be shutting them down as we don't want to cause this kind of interruption.Hopefully that helps some."</b></span><hr /></blockquote><p>This does not help at all.</p><p>Let me make this clear: regardless of what definition of "pop-up" ad that SoE is using internally, the Flash ads that take over the broswer window or float an image into view over the content of the browser window are <i>also</i> "pop-up ads". And they are <b>NOT</b> uncommon on EQ2 Players. I've experienced them more than once on the site.</p><p>As I have previously mentioned, it is exactly this type of ad (Flash-based) that is being used to deliver malware payloads (as discussed in: Betsy Schiffman, "<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick" target="_blank">Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC</a>," November 15, 2007, and the Slashdot commentary <a rel="nofollow" href="http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/19/1517209.shtml" target="_blank">here</a> on that same article).</p><p>Telling your customers it's their job to report problems with the ads and police the security of your ad referral program is neither helpful, nor acceptable. You are exposing your customers to, at minimum, an intrusive annoyance; and at worst, a destructive hazard, and telling them that they not only have to pay for that privilege, but also have to become experts on analyzing the content of your ad delivery system as well as work as your agents to report (to whom? it's not like you provide any reliable means of contacting a customer support agent who is prepared to address the ad delivery mechanism!) and troubleshoot that same ad service.</p><p>There are only two classes of people who would wish to visit EQ2 Players: current customers, who are <b>paying</b> to play the game, and potential customers who would wish to play the game. These ads, and SoE's poor management of them, alienate both. You are sacrificing the primary revenue-generating aspects of the site to squeeze out a small, marginal source of additional source of income from a site which is already suffering from poor management and gross functional problems. I seriously doubt the accuracy and sense of the business proposition which made that action desirable.</p><p>I don't care if your ad service works properly, or if it's delivering the content you intend it to, that's not my job to ensure. Those ads don't belong on EQ2 Players, and definitely don't belong in any of the pages in the patcher. Remove them.</p>

[Xagoth]

^^^^ VERY well said!!!What I don't understand, is it was stated that SOE screens all these ads. So then HOW are popup ads getting through? Must not be a very thorough screening. Which leads me to believe, that malware COULD and eventually WILL get through your "screening process".

[Lantis]

<cite>Xagoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>^^^^ VERY well said!!!What I don't understand, is it was stated that SOE screens all these ads. So then HOW are popup ads getting through? Must not be a very thorough screening. Which leads me to believe, that malware COULD and eventually WILL get through your "screening process".</blockquote>I guess the people filtering the ads are too busy manually filling the Excel sheets with the roster data used by EQ2Players.

[Pathetica]

<p>Firefox.  Addons.</p><p>Block the ads. Adblock Plus.</p><p>Block flash ads. Flashblock.</p><p> Block key loggers. Noscript.</p><p>IE7Pro also has ad/flash blocking available, but I refuse to use it except in dire cases.</p><p>Pathetica (don't let the moneygrubbers win!)</p><p>And in the guy here Grimsomethingorother's defence. He can scream holler and throw stuff around till he lies exhausted on the floor, and it will accomplish nuthin. He has zero nada and so on ability to decide what does or does not go on the pages that sales see as one more way to eek out a few pp errrrr bucks.</p>