Monks or Bruisers?

[Disciple780]

Whats better and why?

[Disciple780]

Anyone have an opinion?

[Greavous]

<p>It really depends bro on weather u want to be a waste of good armour or not.</p><p>Haven't met a monk that could out tank out dps and out love this Bruiser.</p><p>Seems SOE needs to give Brawlers a bit of lovin all round but it comes down to this.</p><p>If grouping or soloing is your thing and u don't like to tank roll a monk.</p><p>If you want to own all heroic instances and tank better than most plate tank in there then roll a Bruiser.</p><p>Both solo well, both have heals, both do good damage</p>But only Bruisers get the girls

[Antas22]

<cite>Greavous wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It really depends bro on weather u want to be a waste of good armour or not.</p><p>Haven't met a monk that could out tank out dps and out love this Bruiser.</p><p>Seems SOE needs to give Brawlers a bit of lovin all round but it comes down to this.</p><p>If grouping or soloing is your thing and u don't like to tank roll a monk.</p><p>If you want to own all heroic instances and tank better than most plate tank in there then roll a Bruiser.</p><p>Both solo well, both have heals, both do good damage</p>But only Bruisers get the girls</blockquote>You, sir, have encountered some pretty lousy Monks, obviously. Having recently betrayed my Bruiser to Monk, my survivability has significantly increased in a tanking role.I'd say Monks make somewhat better group tanks on the high end, and bring a bit more utility to a group (group FD, group casting speed increase, our heal works on others), but Bruisers have the edge in soloing and burst DPS (more important than sustained in many situations).On a raid, Monks generally have an advantage DPS-wise. Not because we're better, a Bruiser CAN do more DPS than us--with the right group setup. However, Brawlers mostly get shoved into the trash group with a Wizard, Necro, extra Swash, Warden, and some other useless class (from a melee buff perspective). If properly buffed (particularly haste) a Bruiser has the edge (because a Monk is already in the realm of diminishing returns on haste, a big source of our DPS), if not, I've out DPSed superiorly geared Bruisers while we were stuck in a group like that listed above. But Bruisers get Drag...and since we're not a top-tier DPS class...well, that's a pretty significant advantage.

[ganjookie]

Bruiser, cause you are on our boards

[Greavous]

<p>Yes I have encountered some pretty lousy Monks, all of them so far.</p><p>No that's not fair. There are some very good players who choose a monk to play.</p><p>Yes a group FD and a group heal can be a very nice thing to have I'd agree. </p><p>But I really can't believe you can say your survivability has increased since betraying.</p><p>You won't hear too many people asking for a monk to tank Unrest, or Nizara or Roost or CMM or .....</p><p>All these zones a Bruiser destroys. </p><p>A Monk and Bruiser will have similar avoidance lvl's but a Bruiser will almost always have a higher Mit.</p><p>For most heroic mobs, burst dps will take them out so fast that a Monks longer term dps is never seen.</p><p>Against Epic mobs your right. If I was to have no haste buff at all a Monk would come close in dps (I have my own haste gear but we are talking generally here).</p><p>The trouble is your creating a situation where a Monk can out dps a Bruiser. Most times I will have a Dirge or Troub and illus in group. A monks dps will remain relatively constant in any group setting where is a Bruisers will jump hugely with any haste buffs.</p><p>I understand defending your class, Hell I'll defend Bruisers to the gates of Qeynos, but to say a Monk is a better group tank than a Bruiser is ludicrous.</p><p>And btw, if you're getting shoved into the "useless" class group, have a chat to your raid leader and ask him if he should think about selling flowers for a living instead of running a raid.</p><p>There is no room for creating a "trash" group in a raid. All those classes you just threw in that group, given the right set up will all parse 1.8k to 3k against EoF Epics. (Ok not the poor old Warden)</p><p>The trouble is a Monk really doesn't have much of a chance of raiding any more.</p><p>There is only room for 1 Brawler in a raid. Given the choice a Bruiser will always get the nod over a Monk</p>

[Dorieon]

<cite>Greavous wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I have encountered some pretty lousy Monks, all of them so far.</p><p>No that's not fair. There are some very good players who choose a monk to play.</p><p>Yes a group FD and a group heal can be a very nice thing to have I'd agree. </p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Monks on your server must suck. If all they offer is Grp FD and a "single target" heal...well just ouch.</span></p><p>But I really can't believe you can say your survivability has increased since betraying.</p><p>You won't hear too many people asking for a monk to tank Unrest, or Nizara or Roost or CMM or .....</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Come to think of it you don't hear "too" many asking for Bruisers either. We both fight for our place and we can both do it np.</span></p><p>All these zones a Bruiser destroys. </p><p><span style="color: #990000;">And so do monks. Sorry you haven't seen it.</span></p><p>A Monk and Bruiser will have similar avoidance lvl's but a Bruiser will almost always have a higher Mit.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Almost.</span></p><p>For most heroic mobs, burst dps will take them out so fast that a Monks longer term dps is never seen.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">I'll give you that you have higher burst dps and that on most mobs that makes a difference. Now on a mob that your timers didn't refresh us monks just made our money.</span></p><p>Against Epic mobs your right. If I was to have no haste buff at all a Monk would come close in dps (I have my own haste gear but we are talking generally here).</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Touche. Wait a min, I have my own dps gear. Where can this possibly go? Oh wait I remembered, I can self buff my dps "equal to you self buffing your haste" . I mean I have 126 haste self buffed and 34 dps, that is fairly equal if you flip it right?</span></p><p>The trouble is your creating a situation where a Monk can out dps a Bruiser. Most times I will have a Dirge or Troub and illus in group. A monks dps will remain relatively constant in any group setting where is a Bruisers will jump hugely with any haste buffs.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Completely false statement. Just because whaetver raid you are in doesn't put the monk in a group that helps it doesn't mean our dps remains constant. If you (as a bruiser) most times have a dirge/troub or illus in group (minus Iluss arm) then a monk with a dirge/troub, coercer would parse similar to you. Maybe not the same but it would be split. We need different buffs, that is all.</span></p><p>I understand defending your class, Hell I'll defend Bruisers to the gates of Qeynos, but to say a Monk is a better group tank than a Bruiser is ludicrous.</p><p> <span style="color: #990000;">Absolutely, but to say a bruiser is better is equally ludicrous. If anything I think a monks frontal aoe makes us even or ahead by a slight margin. </span></p><p>And btw, if you're getting shoved into the "useless" class group, have a chat to your raid leader and ask him if he should think about selling flowers for a living instead of running a raid.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">True for both classes.</span></p><p>There is no room for creating a "trash" group in a raid. All those classes you just threw in that group, given the right set up will all parse 1.8k to 3k against EoF Epics. (Ok not the poor old Warden)</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Agreed.</span></p><p>The trouble is a Monk really doesn't have much of a chance of raiding any more.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">Lol.</span></p><p>There is only room for 1 Brawler in a raid. Given the choice a Bruiser will always get the nod over a Monk.</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">I have to give you credit...you do stand by your class. And I will readily admit that our bruiser out "burst" dps's me. Then again he normally has a dirge and mine is MIA atm. But forget excuses, even a 2 or 300 dps (zw) difference wouldn't make up for the monk Swift Calm (raid wide) ability (it easily gives 1-300 dps per class if you haven't noticed). If you ask me the classes (when well played) are too close to call. </span></p></blockquote>Sorry boss, not meaning to argue but just had to defend my class. I will admit that a bruiser will kill herioc named faster than a monk any day of the week.

[Junaru]

I'm not about to get into the chat above me but I do have a few things to say. 1st off I agree for tanking and burst DPS a bruiser wins more of the time. With that said I have yet to have a bruiser out DPS me on a raid unless I got put as an amends target in the ST group. I'm normally put into the DPS melee group but have often shared with Bruisers. I often am the highest melee parses on the raids.As for tanking Unrest. I've done it with little effort so it's not like Monks can't tank it. In fact on a DT raid last night there were only 3 tanks in the whole raid. On the Tarinax fight I was required to play tank. I tanked him for a good 40% of the fight. Geared right either class can do it.Also the haste/spell-haste but is raid wide. There is no need to put a Monk in any group other then an amends target like a said above.

[Greavous]

<p>It's good to see a monk that can stand up for him self. Maybe you should betray Dorieon, you sound like you have a Bruiser spirit.</p><p>Firstly I would like to say that Tanking is an attitude and it doesn't matter what class you play. If you're a tank, you're a tank period.</p><p>A good tank has nothing to do with the toon but the absolute denial of anyone else in group or raid to do the job as well as you.</p><p>With that in mind I believe a Monk can tank for sure.</p><p>However all Brawlers are having to be so much better than any Plate tank to compete against Epic content it has to come down to the player.</p><p>As you have said, against Heroics Bruisers have the edge because of burst damage and the low hitpoints of the mob. So the only way to compete for a Monk would be against Epic mobs who will show the longer dps ability of a monk just standing there doing 60% of their damage from auto attack. The only problem is a Monk is 1 dimensional because dps and haste (which = dps) is their bag. I have yet to see a Monk tank in EH or MMIS. I have yet to see a Monk tank Death Toll from top to bottom. I have yet to see a Monk become the sexy pin up tanks a Bruiser is.</p><p>So if as you say (never seen it yet but perhaps it has happened on a server somewhere) you can stick with a Bruiser in dps and we both have raid wide dps increases. We both can fd and save a raid walk back, we both have a heal (Bruisers are a little self centred and don't care about healing others) but only 1 of us can tank Tr7 Epics, surely the "survivability" increase is sadly a blatant inaccuracy and misleading to any potential Brawler.</p><p>Seriously Dorieon betray bro.</p><p>All servers need good non whinging Bruisers around to show how its really done.</p>

[Dorieon]

<p>I did think about betraying a few months back but decided against it. Love this toon a little too much. But thanks for the recruitment pitch man. </p><p>Totally agree with you on tanking. It almost always come down to who is behind the keyboard and how well they know their class. But we could both use some of that uncontested avoidance love.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I will say that one thing that a monk is awesome at is the auto attacks! I used devistation fist the other night and noticed that my combat abilities couldn't be used for about ten secs maybe so I have to rely on auto attack (I play a bruiser not a monk). I think that a monk will benefit greatly from the fact that auto attacks are so much faster for them in that situation.</p><p> I love a brusier and think they are fun to play, and I hear it all the time how awesome our burst damage is and for the most part it is cool. What I hate is after that burst damage is done and the mob is still standing I just hate waiting all that time for those ca's to refresh jeeezzzzzz. Personally I feel a monk will have a good edge on a bruiser in the dps dept, but I just like the fact that my self heal pops quicker than a monks which helps in solo content.</p>

[Madmoon]

<p>Monks = those whom the Dreadnoughts throw out of Freeport.</p><p>And elves.</p><p>But they smell better.</p><p>**Had to edit - the monks smell better'n us.  Elves stink, period.**</p>

[Dorieon]

<cite>Greavous wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>As you have said, against Heroics Bruisers have the edge because of burst damage and the low hitpoints of the mob. So the only way to compete for a Monk would be against Epic mobs who will show the longer dps ability of a monk just standing there doing 60% of their damage from auto attack. The only problem is a Monk is 1 dimensional because dps and haste (which = dps) is their bag. I have yet to see a Monk tank in EH or MMIS. I have yet to see a Monk tank Death Toll from top to bottom. I have yet to see a Monk become the sexy pin up tanks a Bruiser is.</p><p>So if as you say (never seen it yet but perhaps it has happened on a server somewhere) you can stick with a Bruiser in dps and we both have raid wide dps increases. We both can fd and save a raid walk back, we both have a heal (Bruisers are a little self centred and don't care about healing others) but only 1 of us can tank Tr7 Epics, surely the "survivability" increase is sadly a blatant inaccuracy and misleading to any potential Brawler.</p><p>Seriously Dorieon betray bro.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, I think I missed this part of your post when I responded earlier (and then I took a few weeks off from the boards). </p><p>This is mostly for anyone that might stumble in here (because I would hate to lose a possible good monk because someone read this thread). A monk can tank in EH and MMIS. I don't (I have a guard and a pally that do that normally) but I have off tanked mobs no problem. I switch my gear to mit gear for fights where I am designated to off tank or know that it might be needed, that is all it takes. I have tanked one of the Prince mobs on the first floor of EH when our other tank went down (not planned and i will give alot of props to my healers but monks can do it) I didn't lose agro until the last 10% and that is because I switched to defensive for a bit because of spike damage. I also tanked the first Grovebeast on Wuoshi for about 40% when our OT went down. My point is, monks (a decently played one anyway) can off tank those zones just fine. So, as far as tanking T7 epics I would say we are equal bro. Neither of us do it as well as a plate in most situations but we both get the job done. And as far as DT goes, its an expansion behind so its not a great test really. I've never tanked it, but I have never needed to. </p><p> Imo you can't go wrong with a brawler class, both are awesome when played well. But bruisers are stingy with their heal.</p><p>Wish we could hang out Greavous, we are too similar not to get along. A few beers in and we would probably start arguing though lol.</p>

[Couching]

I have a 70 monk and 66 bruiser. The difference between monk and bruiser is tinyJust as what everyone said, bruiser has advantage in solo and farming named with better burst damage.For tanking, Bruiser has advantage in mitigation and better aggro with control hate and drag.For monk, we have tsunami and superior riposte as life saving tool. Overall in tanking, there is less damage spike on bruiser with higher mitigation but they don't have life saving tool, tsunami and superior riposte, as monk.Basically, they are equal. Anything bruiser can tank, monk can as well, vice versa.