Will there ever be non mega rare t7 arrows?

[littleman17]

<p>I am sure a bunch of you people who think rangers are the best uber dps ever are wondering what I am talking about. Either that, or you just don't care. :p</p><p>But, as it stands, there are currently NO arrows other than the ones summoned from two of the rarest bows (ichorstrand and bazkul) that drop in deathdoll. This means, that we are stuck using ammo that makes us do 20% LESS damage than we are suppose to be doing.</p><p>Now, I am not asking for there to be a common t7 arrow that does the same as these, but I would like to see some with half the effectiveness that you don't have to raid DT a bajilion times to get. Maybe let WW make xegonite arrows (would be 62 like the mc armor/weaps)? But, amke it so that each time they complete the recipe, it makes 100 or more arrows so that you do not end up needing like 10 xeg clusters to make a single stack.</p><p>Any thoughts?</p>

[Hamervelder]

I think that rangers are still at the top of the food chain, despite these "fixes" I keep hearing rangers ask for, and despite the "nerfs" they've received.  If you can be at the top of the chain after all that, then ... your class needed to be adjusted.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kaycerzan]

No, though this topic has been covered a number of times, he has a very valid point.Ammunition should, to a point, have no effect on bow damage. Obviously if you're using crappy ammo (read:low level) that's a different story.But there's no reason why you should do less damage with a T7 arrow on a T7 bow, just because it's not an arrow summoned or crafted from a raid drop. This is an issue that affects class play in general, not one of those 'Just Player vurses ~whatever~' scenarios. Basic crafted ammo should have no damage modification when used on a bow of the same tier, and it is extremely unfair to a good portion of the population that they need something unreasonable to perform as advertised.As was suggested in a prior post... remove this absurd concept of +/- hit, damage, range from the basic "normal" crafted arrow of each tier so that the bows work as intended, and let crummy / extraordinary ammunition have it's own +/- effects.

[Arleonenis]

<cite>Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think that rangers are still at the top of the food chain, despite these "fixes" I keep hearing rangers ask for, and despite the "nerfs" they've received.  If you can be at the top of the chain after all that, then ... your class needed to be adjusted.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>No we arent on top of food chain without DT ammo bow and high end fabled bow. If rangers that dont meet this requirements in your guild are on top ZW parse than sorry to say that but your guild suck very badly dps wise.</p><p>Than with DT ammo bow and >772 max dmg bow you may get to top parse if other dps isnt "best equiped possible".</p><p>For your information due to ammo abomination wind shaped longbow (drop from sharik the fang in emerald halls) have similar dps as ghostly bow of bylze that is level 59 treasured... yes this scream for adjustment... of arrows!!!</p>

[PaganSaint]

Field Point Arrows will have comparable DPS numbers to the summoned ammo over an entire ZW.And you can always farm out EH trash for seeds to make tender wood arrows.

[Kaycerzan]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>Field Point Arrows will have comparable DPS numbers to the summoned ammo over an entire ZW.And you can always farm out EH trash for seeds to make tender wood arrows.</blockquote>The whole point is that people *shouldn't* have to kill epic mobs to get the ammunition that makes a bow do what it says it will do. And also, farming out those seeds, much easier said than done, does not give you the recipe to make the arrows.

[PaganSaint]

I didn't honestly know there was a server left who couldn't get the recipe.Hell I think here on BB there are 10-15 copies on the broker chilling for a rather low price.About 1/4 of what a Bazkul or Ichor Strand goes for at most.And why shouldn't you have to raid to get the one of the best items needed for your class to raid with?But then again, you can always use field point like I said and have comparable DPS.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't honestly know there was a server left who couldn't get the recipe.Hell I think here on BB there are 10-15 copies on the broker chilling for a rather low price.About 1/4 of what a Bazkul or Ichor Strand goes for at most.And why shouldn't you have to raid to get the one of the best items needed for your class to raid with?But then again, you can always use field point like I said and have comparable DPS.</blockquote>the issue is not what drops in raid and what not or what a recipe costs....the issue is that t7 crafted arrows are in fact t6 and that leads to a malus in bow dmg.

[Lasai]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't honestly know there was a server left who couldn't get the recipe.Hell I think here on BB there are 10-15 copies on the broker chilling for a rather low price.About 1/4 of what a Bazkul or Ichor Strand goes for at most.And why shouldn't you have to raid to get the one of the best items needed for your class to raid with?But then again, you can always use field point like I said and have comparable DPS.</blockquote>the issue is not what drops in raid and what not or what a recipe costs....the issue is that t7 crafted arrows are in fact t6 and that leads to a malus in bow dmg. </blockquote><p>BINGO.</p><p>Nobody is asking that Player Made T7 ammo have any change made to thier stats, only that they are recognized as TIER 7 ammo, and not penalized for actually being t6, specifically level 57.  T7 ammunition is taking the hit that lower tiered ammo should, because it IS lower tier.  This is just wrong, and effects all player made ammunition.  </p><p>They screwed it up at t1, making both Tin (level 1) and Iron arrows (level 7) t1, and just going up from there. </p><p>Everyone in game using ranged weaps with the same tier ammo is getting screwed damage wise.  The only time ammo is working at full damage is the last 3 levels per tier, and only then if you use next tier ammo.</p>

[BigChiefJJ]

<p>I say we leave Arrows just like they are, but we implement wetstones and repair-hammers that will be required by all classes that use melee weapons and armor.  These consumables which will be made by weapon smiths and armorers will actually be made at lvl 63 but will only be level 57.  One will be consumed each time you swing your melee weapon or get hit by a mob - but they will only allow your lvl 70 sword to do 77% of its maximum damage or it will only allow your lvl 70 armor to utilize 77% of its mitigation.  Now there will be one item that is an ultra rare drop from an end zone raid mob that will allow you to summon legendary versions of these items, but they will still only allow your weapons and armor to function at 93% of their maximum.   I think this sounds fair!</p>

[littleman17]

<p>See, some people do get it! And I am glad that they do, and I can only hope that a person from higher up esees all these issues and takes action soon. If only to screw melee classes the way we have been screwed. (I love how your post puts it into perspective for melee classes, Big)</p><p>So to reiterate, anyone (mainly Rangers though) who use ammo that is not summoned from two of the rarest bows in the game or farmed from one of the hardest zones in the games has to deal with two things.</p><p>1. Mitigation, this is shared between melee and ranged classes.</p><p>2. Inadequate ammo that leads to 23% less damage being done by our bows and a hell of a lot of misses.</p>

[PaganSaint]

Using that argument weapons from lvl 60-70 should all be comparable. They are not.If you want the weapons that do the most damage you use weapons from the end of the tier, if you want arrows that do the most damage you use arrows from the end of the tier.BUT.Field point arrows with their higher accuracy rating are comparable to the summoned end of tier 7 arrows from Bazkul and Ichor Strand and they are, as mentioned,  usable from level 57.

[Lasai]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>Using that argument weapons from lvl 60-70 should all be comparable. They are not.If you want the weapons that do the most damage you use weapons from the end of the tier, if you want arrows that do the most damage you use arrows from the end of the tier.BUT.Field point arrows with their higher accuracy rating are comparable to the summoned end of tier 7 arrows from Bazkul and Ichor Strand and they are, as mentioned,  usable from level 57.</blockquote><p>Oh stop with the spurious argumentation. This has nothing to do with all weapons in a tier being equal, and you know it.</p><p>T7 Arrows are makable at Level 63.  They require T7 materials to make, fuel, raws.  They should reflect both the level of the recipe, and the level (tier) of the materials used to create them.</p><p>Lower tier ammo takes a big hit to prevent people from cheaping out and getting performance from cheaper, lower tier ammo.  It is a positive thing, or would be if PM ammo was not needlessly dropped to tier-3 levels accross the board.</p><p>I don't care about your parses, your love of field points, or your rationalization of a broken mechanic.  And that IS the issue, a nonsensical, broken level designation applied to ammo for no logical reason.</p>

[BigChiefJJ]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>Field point arrows with their higher accuracy rating are comparable to the summoned end of tier 7 arrows from Bazkul and Ichor Strand and they are, as mentioned,  usable from level 57.</blockquote><p>Field points are comparable to the DT summoned ammunition if you are using a bow that is in the lvl 57-60 range (the same lvl range as the field points), but once you start using level 68-70 bows there is a big difference in damage.  The DT summoned ammo hits less often (+15% vs +30% hit bonus) than the field points but they allow the bow to do much more damage.  When I switched from field points to viscous globs my dps numbers increased by about 15% - nothing changed but the ammo.  I was using the same bow as before, in the same group as before, fighting the same mobs as before, only thing that changed was the arrows.  My hit% did go down slightly (~4% or so) when I switched, but even hitting the mobs less, I was doing more damage. </p><p>Does that sound like they are comparable?</p>

[PaganSaint]

False.They are comparable in a RSB or a SDLB also.

[BigChiefJJ]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>False.They are comparable in a RSB or a SDLB also.</blockquote><p>I'm a bit confused - what are you stating is False?  Looking at the percentages of what the different bows perform at it was shown that both the RSB and the SDLB do about 15% more damage when you use DT ammo vs when you use Fieldpoints.  How does that make the two type of ammo comparable?</p>

[PaganSaint]

I can't tell you exact numbers, but I do know in practical use that ZW numbers are within 100-300 DPS of each other from one week to the next between using field point and using summoned ammo.The biggest part of that is that any misses, parries, deflections etc hurt DPS badly with such slow bows. The field point arrows don't miss, or rarely enough to be called not missing, while the summoned ammo has a noticeable miss rate when swapped to from field point.But the whole argument of <i>needing</i> summoned arrows, or <i>needing</i> tenderwood arrows is ridiculous.Field points will not do quite as much damage, but they will also do close enough damage through better hit percentage that anyone who is complaining about getting a summon ammo bow or getting tenderwood arrows will be just fine for their raids.Only at the very high end of equipement, where you have self buffed near vs lvl 70 maxed ranged skill, all the time maintenance of debuffs,will summoned arrows always beat field points by a wide margin.But then again, at that point your argument isn't about whining for easier to obtain top end arrows, the argument is whether to use your seeds of growth to make poisons or arrows.

[BigChiefJJ]

<p>I'd actually love to have a RSB or SDLB to test this out, but unfortunately I'm stuck with the SWLB, I've just had bad luck on drops, with the exception of the Am. Drake.  So I can't attest first hand to the difference that the 9 second delay bows make.  However I will agree with you that usually zone wide you will see your hit% drop when you use DT arrows over field points, but in my experience the added damage that I get from the DT arrows outweighs the loss in hit % and procs that I don't get from the added misses when I use DT arrows.   </p>

[PaganSaint]

Our rangers went from using the summoned ammo to using the field points(tenderwoods when we have enough seeds drop, rather unlucky on those) when they made the arrow changes a couple LUs ago due to the accuracy loss, changed their gear around, got a few more key items(leaf rot bracers) and have since gone back to using the summoned ammo and using their seeds for poisons.