Know What Provisioners REALLY Need In Their Master Books? [Archive]

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 01:07 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>why?There is plenty of those running around already. </blockquote>There are recipes that sound alcoholic, but none of them really are. I guess that is my point...provisioners can't make or sell anything that players can use to increase their alcohol tolerence (or that give the funny "drunk" effects).Some of my fondest memories of EQ (live) were gathering with friends at the end of the night and drinking alcoholic drinks until we couldn't see straight before logging out to raise our alcohol tolerence skills.It's a novelty, but something I think other players would enjoy and value (we all love to max stats), and another thing provisioners can sell. If NPC vendors can sell alcoholic beverages, I don't understand why provisioners can't as well.I envision 2-3 books called "secrets of the brewmaster" that will be like advanced books for other professions.Alternatively, what about using an adornment-like system that allows player to "spike" existing drinks. Recipes for something like 5 alcohols (gin, vodka, rum, grain, whiskey) that you can add to other drinks to give them an [alcoholic] property. Drinking something that has been adorned with alcohol functions like an alcoholic drink.I just think players like having alcohol, and it creates immersion and fun. If there is alcohol in the game, why not let provisioners make it?

KerowynnKaotic

10-05-2007, 01:28 AM

The problem with creating a straight Craftable Alcoholic beverage is that the majority of players wouldn't buy it (use it). I'm guessing you have a Provisioner? How many of those stat-less Chocolates/Cheese Cakes have you ever sold?I made like 6 of each (tier) when they came out .. I think I have sold like 4 total. And, they are priced pretty much at or near cost to make. Maybe Roleplaying Servers are different but the average player is of the mindset of "if it provides a bonus, get it. - if it doesn't, ignore it"You can buy all the booze you want from the various bartenders running around and again if you play during Brew Day or know someone that did .. You have access to all the in-game booze you could ever want. Plus, I vaguely remember something about a Dwarf Trait that summons booze .. ?So, the vendor sold booze is going to be cheaper and provide the same effect. Domino could turn a couple of the stat-less drinks in to Alcohol but then she would have a few dozen crafters complaining about "nerfing" their power drinks. As far as spiking is concerned. You can drink a Provisioner made Drink and a Alcoholic beverage at the same time. I think people would complain if suddenly people were getting in-game drunk from their provisioner made drink, just before a big pull. Go Back to the drawing board, hun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 01:52 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with creating a straight Craftable Alcoholic beverage is that the majority of players wouldn't buy it (use it). With all due respect, I totally disagree! They have alcholic beverages on NPC vendors and people buy those. Why wouldn't people buy player-crafted beverages from the broker?I'm guessing you have a Provisioner? How many of those stat-less Chocolates/Cheese Cakes have you ever sold?Totally not the point. NPCs sell statless alcohol and people buy it. Why wouldn't people buy player-crafted beverages from the broker?I made like 6 of each (tier) when they came out .. I think I have sold like 4 total. And, they are priced pretty much at or near cost to make. Maybe Roleplaying Servers are different but the average player is of the mindset of "if it provides a bonus, get it. - if it doesn't, ignore it"By that logic, why would anyone ever buy provisioner made drinks...you can buy all sorts of drinks from NPCS, but players STILL buy from provisioners. Either give the drinks stats (i.e. a drunken bravery effect or anti-fear effect) or make the recipe such that players could create the drinks cheaper than NPCs sell them for.I will also note that in EQ, you had both NPC and player-made alcoholic drinks, and players bought the player-made ones. I don't understand why this would be any different.You can buy all the booze you want from the various bartenders running around and again if you play during Brew Day or know someone that did .. You have access to all the in-game booze you could ever want. Plus, I vaguely remember something about a Dwarf Trait that summons booze .. ?Again, by that logic, no one would ever buy provisioner-made food because (1) some classes can summon free food/drink, and (2) NPCs sell food and drink. That doesn't make sense. You would just need to give the player-made recipes some sort of "carrot" (stats or cost advantage)So, the vendor sold booze is going to be cheaper and provide the same effect. Domino could turn a couple of the stat-less drinks in to Alcohol but then she would have a few dozen crafters complaining about "nerfing" their power drinks.First, who says that NPC booze will be cheaper? Cost is a function of what the player making the drink decides to charge right? Also that whole "problem" could be easily fixed with the alcohol tolerence skill... Limit NPC drinks so that they have no effect after your alcohol tolerence skill reaches 125, and only player drinks will work/raise your skill after that. Instand advantage for player-made drinks.Second, I NEVER suggested that ANY recipe be modified to be alcoholic. I suggested that either (1) a handful of new recipes be added, or (2) players be able to make existing drinks alcoholic IF (and only if) they want to by going through an extra crafting step.As far as spiking is concerned. You can drink a Provisioner made Drink and a Alcoholic beverage at the same time.Or.....you can just let players make alcoholic drinks.I think people would complain if suddenly people were getting in-game drunk from their provisioner made drink, just before a big pull.There are already alcoholic drinks in the game, and I don't think this is a big problem...why would allowing player-made alcoholic drinks change anything?</blockquote>

KerowynnKaotic

10-05-2007, 02:03 AM

that's too much to quote .. Do you really want to blow a Provisioner Rare on something that anyone can already get in game? That's my issue. People buy Vendor Food because it's cheaper or they are out in the middle of nowhere. People don't buy the stat-less food in any great bulk. The Crafters will however buy stat-less drinks. End result on the Provo Boozey Drink would cost MORE than the Vendor sold Booze. If it gave the exact same effect and yet cost more than the Vendor supplied, people aren't going to buy it. If people aren't going to buy it, it won't be sold or made for more than discovery exp and that's it. --- Now, if we could make a Bottle of Wine [ house item ] that could supply a certain amount of drinks or unlimited drinks that last 15 mins .. (whatever) .. I'm all for that. That has in-game value. Not only to Provo's for their own homes but also for anyone that creates their home. There ya go .. booze made by a provisioner. Worth a "rare" to a good portion of the game. Edit Add: Point of fact I want a Deathfist Blood Wine [house item] that can give a certain amout of drinks. My inner Trekkie is so willingly to sacrafice a couple dozen blood ores for that. I don't know if anyone else would though .. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 02:53 AM

Wait...what?Who said anything about rares? I am talking about standard recipes, using common ingredients, that are included in "advanced" provisioner tradeskill books. Once you find the book, you can make the drink (using common ingredients) forever.You seem to be arguing with everything I say based on a bunch of faulty assumptions, costs, and benefits defined in a way to disagree with me, so let me see if i can make this simpler and less controversial:In EQ (live), players can make alcoholic drinks.In EQ (live), players buy and use player-made alcoholic drinks.In EQ (live), alcoholic drinks were fun.In EQ2, players CANNOT make alcoholic drinks.In EQ2, alcoholic drinks do, however, exist and are sold on NPCs.Point #1: I think it would be nice for players to be able to make alcoholic drinks in EQ2.Point #2: I think the recipes could be added to advanced provisioner books (with recipes that use common ingredients).That is it. That is ALL I am suggesting. I set forth some ideas about how that could be implemented. You didn't like them, and that is fine. That has nothing to do with my point: That I think playes should be able to make alcoholic drinks, and that alcoholic drink recipes should be added to advanced provisioner books.If you wish to argue further, please first consider this: Three provisioner recipes were just added to the game in an "advanced" book: (1) one that lets you throw chocolate cake, (2) one that makes you pass out, and (3) one that lets you shapeshift until you zone.How do ANY of those recipes have any more utility or "value" than the concept I am suggesting. Are a "majority" of players running around throwing cake at each other? Are people drinking hair of the dog on raids and making themselves pass out?I'm not suggesting that this is going to make a million plat for each provisioner in the game. I am just suggesting that this is one mechanic of EQ (live) that I would like to see finally ported over to EQ2; a fun thing that people could use if they wanted to. A player wanting to show friendship to other players could make and pass out drinks. It would be one more step toward making sure that players could make everything that NPCs sell (which I think is REALLY important to keep tradeskilling viable).What do you have against fun?

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 03:05 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite> <blockquote>End result on the Provo Boozey Drink would cost MORE than the Vendor sold Booze. If it gave the exact same effect and yet cost more than the Vendor supplied, people aren't going to buy it. If people aren't going to buy it, it won't be sold or made for more than discovery exp and that's it. </blockquote>I also want to point out a basic flaw in logic with this premise...You can buy a basic alcoholic drink from some NPC bars for 1s (ex: Antonia Ale for 1s, 20c).Let's say that you add an advanced provisioner book to the game that adds a T1 recipe for a bottle of Rum. The recipe calls for 2 roots (free), and 1 piece of walnut kindling (1c). The total cost of that combine is 1c to the provisioner, who can then sell the bottle on the broker for anywhere between 2c and 99c on the broker and make money. More importantly, the item would be sold on the broker for CHEAPER than the NPC price. Why do you assume that player-made alcohol would cost more than NPC sold alcohol?

Calthine

10-05-2007, 03:12 AM

<cite>Eueadan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Why do you assume that player-made alcohol would cost more than NPC sold alcohol?</blockquote>Experience in the charge-opportunity-costs-plus-whatever-the-market-will-bear-so-you-can-complain-about-undercutters market of Norrath, perhaps?

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 03:31 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eueadan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Why do you assume that player-made alcohol would cost more than NPC sold alcohol?</blockquote>Experience in the charge-opportunity-costs-plus-whatever-the-market-will-bear-so-you-can-complain-about-undercutters market of Norrath, perhaps?</blockquote>So give player alcohol some useful (but still far from unbalancing) stat that gives players a reason to pay a premium for it.Quadruple the price of NPC alcohol.Change alcohol tolerence mechanics so that NPC alcohol is really ineffective.Some combination of all of the above.I just don't understand why I am getting all of the negative naysaying, all of it based on game mechanics that could be easily adapted to make player-created alcohol economically feasible. You don't think that ANY provisioners or players would find player-made alcohol fun?

KerowynnKaotic

10-05-2007, 03:32 AM

<cite>Eueadan wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped*What do you have against fun?</blockquote>Nothing. Fun is fun. Which is what the chocolate missles are for and the whole general "game" thing but .. #1 - This isn't EQ1. #2 - You said Provisioner Master Books. Those = Provo "rares". Guidelines thus far for Provo "rares" are the "uncommon" Imbued "stuff". I was referring to them. With the exception of the fact I really am willing to sacrafice a blood ore for Blood Wine. Especially, if the Art Team could make it look like ST:TNG blood wine. #3 - Again. Why re-create the wheel? We have booze galore. It's useless in game, even as a fun item. It doesn't work as good as EQ1's drunk effect. All it does is promote eyestrain. Your MT on a raid could be drunk (in-game) and you would never know unless he said he was. There is no stumbling, no slurred words .. all you're at risk for is miss-clicking on something. The UI doesn't change. Pull up the AA window and just look at the target / group window and your health. #4 - In your example of "cheap" booze .. that wouldn't be a Provisioner Rare. That would be an Artisan Rare. Provisioner would be after lvl 20, so T3. Fuel would be 14c but don't discount the fact that there might be other items to purchase. For every Cheesecake or Chocolate Candy there are additional items that must be taken into account for the pricing. Prior to LU#24 when we made "beer" we had to purchase additional items that also set the bar for cost. Are you really going to tell me that you're willing to make a stack of 20 "real" beer for less than a couple copper profit?

KerowynnKaotic

10-05-2007, 03:44 AM

<cite>Eueadan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>*snipped* </cite>I just don't understand why I am getting all of the negative naysaying ..</blockquote>*sigh* I really wish people would stop assuming that I am being mean when I point out things. And, it's more along the lines of "playing devil's advocate". I see a problem. I point it out. This conversation made me log on my provo and I discovered a bug with a recipe. I'm going to point that out in a /bug in a second. Is that any different than pointing out a potential problem with your idea? I'm not saying never, ever try to come up with an idea. More along the lines .. "uh. Next idea? ..."

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 03:46 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Are you really going to tell me that you're willing to make a stack of 20 "real" beer for less than a couple copper profit?</blockquote>My example was a T1 recipe. At level 9 the answer to that would be yes (and if you check your local broker to see what the T1 crafters are selling things for, you will see T1 items for sale that fall into that range).You all are ignoring level scaling. Have an "Advanced Brewing Volume 1" (T1) drop in newbie areas; Volume 2 (T2) drop in antonica; etc.A level 20 character gets ???/100 alcohol tolerance. A level 40 character gets ???/200 alcohol tolerance. All you need is a game mechanic (that even may already exist...I'm not an expert in how alcohol skillups work) that requires higher tier (and expense) drink to level tolerence to certain ranges...100-135 = T1, 136-175 = T2, 176-215 = T3; etc.A tiered system like so works for all other tradeskills in the game, and allows for increasing profit for higher level/skill characters. Why wouldn't it work here?

Eueadan

10-05-2007, 04:06 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is that any different than pointing out a potential problem with your idea? I'm not saying never, ever try to come up with an idea. More along the lines .. "uh. Next idea? ..." </blockquote>Based on the fact that the new provisioner "advanced" books give novelty recipes, I thought it would be fun for players to finally be able to create alcoholic drinks. That isn't any more or less valuable than the other advanced recipes so why not?My perception of responses like "Go Back to the drawing board," "uh. Next idea? ...," and "based on [insert variable game mechanic that could easly be changed] your idea would never work" are a little condesending and don't address my real point: I think it would be fun for players to finally be able to create alcoholic drinks.*shrug* I give up.

metacell

10-05-2007, 09:30 AM

I'd like to make use of my Alcohol Tolerance skill.So: allow provisioners to make drinks that 1) have good stats, and 2) blurs your vision unless you have high Alcohol Tolerance.Could give a few laughs.

LaurnaRose Fauldorn

10-05-2007, 09:47 AM

Having a provisioner crafter myself along with several other toons, i would have to say that I like the idea of adding alcholoic beverages as advanced recipes. I do not, however, feel that they should require rare resources to craft. I would say double the resources needed to craft them. As well, all alcoholic beverages should require root in the recipes. I also like the idea of adding special stats (like the previously mentioned anti-fear, maybe a dps buff, a mitigation buff ect).As well, I would like to see advance food recipes with run speed buffs, health/mana pool buffs, spell refresh bonuses and the such. However ... I honestly believe that seeing how provisioners already have the most steady income of all crafters, the fact that they have tons of recipes, most feel it is a benefit to not have to purchase the advanced books, that the other crafting professions should be dealt with before anything drastic is done for provisioners.

Snowdonia

10-05-2007, 09:49 AM

The thing about AT in EQII is it does nothing for you but make your vision wonky. In EQ1, it actually raised your strength (and I think one other stat) and DID something for you even though its adverse effect was to make you stupid (lowered your INT or WIS or something). It was enough of a boon that it gave people a reason to raise their AT and put up with the slurred speech, staggering, and wonky vision, especially Fighters. Plus, it didn't last too long and you could log out and be sober when you logged back in hours later (IE its timer kept going even after you logged out). Get drunk in EQII and you're stuck for at least 30 minutes logged in, in game time with the effect. AT is a useless "skill" in EQII and without something to make people raise an eyebrow and go, "Hey, I just might raise my AT" then I don't see a reason to have Provisioners create items to support it. Make AT useful first, THEN support it.

Illmarr

10-05-2007, 01:08 PM

I see nothing wrong with adding a few recipes for alcoholic drinks. There is already a bunch of fluff in EQ2, what's the harm in a little more? Sadly, because being drunk in EQ2 is not nearly as much fun (actually, in my opinion no fun at all) as it was in EQ1 (Naked Drunken races across the Karanas with level 1 characters anyone?) there probably is not a generally big demand for crafted alcohol. Revamping drunk effects sadly should be rather low on a dev priorities list, but I'm sure some people would have an interest in player crafted alcohol, though being on a r/p server my experience is not the same as the rest of you power gamers <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Te'ana

10-05-2007, 02:25 PM

I am all for anything that will make money for my provisioner, but..............Why on earth would anyone PAY to have bad computer graphics? Unless of course it is countering the effects of real booze LOL.

Looker1010

10-05-2007, 05:23 PM

Three Words:500 years laterThis is not EQ and perhaps folks have gotten a bit smarter in 500 years and don't feel the need to get sloppy drunk every chance they get. Wait, we just got Hair of the Dog which leaves you about as disgustingly drunk as possible. I mean, giving alcohol to your mount...?

Vinh

10-05-2007, 06:09 PM

Drinking in EQ1 was much better then in EQ2, I was/am a master prov in both. But in EQ1, it actually affected your game play, (raising / lowering stats) as opposed to just blurring your screen. That being said, I would love to be able to craft my own alcoholic brew <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> SoE owns the market as the only buyable drinks are from NPCs, and quests that only happen once a year. I missed the first Brew day event, so I was really upset about that. Luckily on the 2nd I did it on a few characters, so just need to port home when I want to wet my whistle. It would be nice to be able to craft my own also though. If I'm out in a tradeskill instance, would be nice to be able to hand some to another character working hard on those hot forges, or sawing away on some shields. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Terron

10-08-2007, 11:39 AM

If my toons wants an alcoholic drink most have an unlimited supply in their room/house, from the Brell's bar quest reward. That quest was made available again this year, so I'd expect it to return next year. They don't need to buy any alcoholic drinks from NPCs or provisioners.

Galldora

10-08-2007, 01:58 PM

<cite>Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to make use of my Alcohol Tolerance skill.So: allow provisioners to make drinks that 1) have good stats, and 2) blurs your vision unless you have high Alcohol Tolerance.Could give a few laughs.</blockquote>I like this idea. At least there would be a reason to increase alcohol tolerance. I also like how it apparently was in EQ1, where getting drunk would increase/decrease certain stats. That makes so much sense from a RP standpoint, and again, might give you a reason to increase that stat. As it stands now, I find the use of in-game alcohol to be nothing more than annoying.

Valdaglerion

10-08-2007, 04:38 PM

What I would like to know is what purpose alcohol tolerance serves to begin with. I have maxed out alcohol tolerance at 350/350 and I still get drunk from a single drink from the keg of everlasting.Yes, my drunk clears up a little faster than someone with lower tolerance but aside from giving yourself a blurry screen what purpose, if any, does it provide in-game?Are there quests you have to be drunk to get from a NPC but they have timed events which cant be completed unless your drunken stupor subsides within a specific time frame?Just wondering if anyone has actually discovered why this is here to begin with.

Snowdonia

10-08-2007, 06:28 PM

My guess as to why it is here at all is it's a badly implemented carry-over from EQ1.

Illmarr

10-08-2007, 06:48 PM

In EQ1, there were events where you needed a high (Not maxed) Alcohol Tolerance in order to function in. The Twins event in Uqua comes to mind as an example. So far I have never come across anything in game that requires any level of Alcohol Tolerance at all.

Magic

10-08-2007, 08:37 PM

In my opinion, we should either have useful recipes for alcoholic beverages added to the game or have the alcohol tolerance skill removed from the game. Having that skill bothers me. I have all skills at max except for that one which is still at 5. I'd like to see alcoholic drink recipes added. Maybe as single recipes that we can get from quests.

Calthine

10-09-2007, 01:11 AM

Alcohol Tolerance is not an EQ1 holdover, it wasn't here at launch. It's a very recent addition to the game - l<strike>St. Patrick's</strike> Brell's Day 2006, I think. People begged for it from day one, even if it was just for fun. So we got it, lol. At one of the Fan Faire panels (can't think of which one off the top of my head) someone asked the "Will AT ever have a purpose" question and the answer was along the lines of "Not that we're currently planning. Maybe in the future."

Xdatinelia

10-09-2007, 03:48 AM

Long before uuqa, At in eq1 had effects, lowered wis/int higher str, also screwed up your speech so that anything you said was awful, unless you maxxed your tolerence (maybe wrong there, may have always screwed with your speech). Eq2's At is a fun fluff thing, not saying that they won't decide to make traps a'la LDoN someday on chests that make you instant drunk (Very bad for dps & crowd control casters).For me, personally I would love to be able to make a few alcoholic drinks, it would be fun to give to my & my husband's alts. No I don't want to spend my entire time in my house leveling At or in Qeynos. I do wish they would make it so there was a *bit* more benifit for AT. It doesn't seem to matter atm at all. I also remember at least one type of drink on my fae that was raising my AT for a while.. do these exist or was this a bug?

BWLeeEllison

10-11-2007, 04:05 PM

What provisioner's need for advanced books are: 1. Group/Raid based food/drink items. 2. House Item versions of various food/drink items.And while we are on the subject of Provisioner Love, how about bringing in one of my favorite ideas, namely Favorite Food/Drink.How would a toon's favorite food/drink be established? Simple, when created, the toon is given a favorite food or drink randomly chosen from all currently available in the game. If you equip a favorite food item, it gives you 20% more health regen out of combat than regular food for whatever tier you are in, with no stat bonus, for like an hour, AND gives you 20% less power regen out of combat than regular drink for whatever tier you are in.For favorite drink, the reverse would apply.You will only be able to find out your favorite food or drink by sampling various items, but once you know what it is, you can stock up on it <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Daine

10-11-2007, 04:30 PM

Actually, a provisioner would LOVE even a no-stat drink that can be sold for a few coppers profit, or even to the merchants...there's this nice little thing called "Pristine XP Bonus" they're a bit short on at the moment.I think he's talking more about something like the new fluff books than something that requires a rare.The reason almost nobody buys the NPC food is because it has no stats and much lower regen than even a no-stat PC made food of the same tier. Also...don't even think of suggesting people actually use the summoned food and drink. I think you get it at level FIVE and IIRC it doesn't ever scale up. It's almost useless when you get it!The idea of making use of Alcohol Tolerance is awesome. I have no reason to get it up, so I don't bother buying worthless booze. Besides, all I ever get is about 2 points an hour after drinking a 20-stack of the most expensive stuff there...if the alcoholic PC made stuff was implemented it would not only raise the tolerance but require it. Sounds good to me <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jehannum

10-26-2007, 09:28 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alcohol Tolerance is not an EQ1 holdover, it wasn't here at launch. It's a very recent addition to the game - l<strike>St. Patrick's</strike> Brell's Day 2006, I think. People begged for it from day one, even if it was just for fun. So we got it, lol. At one of the Fan Faire panels (can't think of which one off the top of my head) someone asked the "Will AT ever have a purpose" question and the answer was along the lines of "Not that we're currently planning. Maybe in the future."</blockquote>Some things occur to me... Only a couple related to the quoted section. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />1. I'm pretty sure I remember having Alcohol Tolerance at launch. Scratch that, I'm positive of it. In fact, I specifically remember complaining about having alcohol tolerance and not, as a provisioner, being able to make any. At launch. It was definitely in the game prior to Patty's 06, if only as a completely unused (and unusable) skill.2. Nice to see you're still enjoying yourself after all this time; I don't know whether you remember me from a year and more ago, but I remember you as one of the only other provisioners who didn't think we were irredeemably broken, at the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />3. Someone else claimed to have been a provisioner in EQ1. I wasn't, because the class didn't exist. What I was, was a Master in cooking and a Grandmaster brewer. I drank as much as I could, despite being a bard (perhaps because of being one) and ran off cliffs (or through Kithicor at night) at insane speeds while weaving madly. That was great fun. I'd love to experience that kind of fun again.4. This is not EQ1. From what I understand, the drunk effect is not the same, and we're unlikely to get one which is. Fair enough, I'd still like to be able to make alcoholic drinks. I'd also like to be able to make people eat their kin (again). Give me the ability to produce such delectable confections as blackened tier'dal for myself and my fellow dark elves. Let me give people dwarf chops, smoked wood elf, and of course my personal favourite, gnome kabobs. I tell you, the reaction from our gnome tank (yes, gnome tank) in EQ1 was worth any investment in gnome meat I had to make.5. Alcohol tolerance as 'fun fluff' in EQ2 reminds me of my troubador 'fun fluff' spell, since it got changed. I paid good silver for it because at the time, I was able to make people dance. They took that away, and it's never been the same since. Alcohol tolerance in EQ2 is the same; I missed it from EQ1 but since they changed it I've ignored it near-completely.That's about it, for now.

Calthine

10-26-2007, 11:27 PM

<cite>Jehannum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alcohol Tolerance is not an EQ1 holdover, it wasn't here at launch. It's a very recent addition to the game - l<strike>St. Patrick's</strike> Brell's Day 2006, I think. People begged for it from day one, even if it was just for fun. So we got it, lol. At one of the Fan Faire panels (can't think of which one off the top of my head) someone asked the "Will AT ever have a purpose" question and the answer was along the lines of "Not that we're currently planning. Maybe in the future."</blockquote>Some things occur to me... Only a couple related to the quoted section. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />1. I'm pretty sure I remember having Alcohol Tolerance at launch. Scratch that, I'm positive of it. In fact, I specifically remember complaining about having alcohol tolerance and not, as a provisioner, being able to make any. At launch. It was definitely in the game prior to Patty's 06, if only as a completely unused (and unusable) skill.</blockquote>You're mistaken, sorry: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253092" target="_blank">Live Update 22, April 13, 2006</a><a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=1057" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recent comments on AT usefulness from Fan Faire</a> (in the Q&A section)Heh, I was a Master Baker in EQ1 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> And I miss my Troubador dancing spell too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />

Condar Tarsonia

10-27-2007, 12:33 AM

I want to agree with Jehannum - I could have sworn the skill was in game at launch. I read through the seemingly pertinent parts of the LU patch notes you (Calthine) posted, but all they say is now alcoholic drinks screw with your sight (paraphrased). According to EQ2i (reference: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance" target="_blank">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance</a>), "Until year 2 there were not even any alcoholic drinks in the game." That coincides with the first Brew Day, which I would assume is when the skill could actually be raised - but again, I really think the skill itself was in at launch, because I have vague memories of buying what I thought were alcoholic drinks to see if it had any effect. Maybe I missed something though that says the skill was added - could you highlight that for me?Off that entirely pointless part though, I agree with the OP - why not add more fluff stuff? The game is full of it, and I'm sure a lot of people don't/wont ever touch it - but it doesn't keep them from adding more. I personally wouldn't use this stuff most likely, unless it had some sort of benefit such as an anti-fear effect or something that actually made sense. And again, what crafter DOESN'T want more recipes (except us Sages - unless it's a consumable!)?At the same time, I would also like to see more of a purpose for the skill, or else remove it altogether - but still give Provisioners more recipes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />(PS to whoever noted this - Yes, drunken races in EQ1 were tons of fun, and I have lots of great memories from those... more stuff like that would be fun here!)Edit: PS #2 - <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=230065�" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...230065</a>So it was really nagging at me, so I did a search on the forums for "alcohol tolerance" - that one was posted on 21 Nov 2004, way before Brew Day. They clearly note AT was in the game, and they couldn't figure out how to raise it.Here's another - <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=220290" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=220290</a>. Sooo... you're mistaken, sorry <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Calthine

10-27-2007, 12:47 AM

Ah, my mistake. Doing a broader search I see that yes, there was an AT skill, but no way to use it, raise it, or play with it.For all practical purposes it wasn't fully implemented until LU 22, but yes, it was always there.

Condar Tarsonia

10-27-2007, 01:07 AM

lol - to that, I can agree <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> And I meant you no offense... but I figured somebody would point it out, and I figure I'm generally a nice enough guy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Calthine

10-27-2007, 01:22 AM

<cite>Condar Tarsonia wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol - to that, I can agree <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> And I meant you no offense... but I figured somebody would point it out, and I figure I'm generally a nice enough guy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No offense taken <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heaven forbid my ego ever gets so big that I think I'm right all the time!I'm pretty good at remembering what dev said what and where I read it... but after three years there's starting to be a *lot* to remember!

Deviantangel

10-31-2007, 04:42 PM

This is something that would not interest me at all. If I were to try to undercut the NPC merchant on alcohol price, it would be a waste of my time to make and try to sell alcoholic beverages. The only reasons I make drinks are: 1) for experience; 2) to sell; and 3) to use. I would rather see something useful added in order to give me experience, I wouldn't bother wasting crafting time and sales display space to sell something for a few copper and I would not use something with such useless effects. I would make these recipes once each for the pristine bonus and promptly sell it to the NPC merchant and forget it was ever in my recipe book. Now granted I don't normally RP, but even if I did I still see no practical purpose for alcohol in-game. I have no interest in leveling my alcohol tolerance because alcohol does nothing for me. I don't gain any special attacks, the wavering effect is annoying and, most importantly, nobody else can tell if I'm drunk. If I want to RP that I'm drunk I would do just as well to save a few copper and just tell people I'm drunk...at least I'll be able to see the reactions without my screen acting all wonky. And if I wanted my screen blurry, I would just walk to my liquor cabinet and pour a few shots. It'd be much more authentic roleplay and I would enjoy it a lot more. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. I'm just saying that from my point of view as a provisioner and as a consumer it would be a waste of time, space, components and money.

Eueadan

10-31-2007, 06:44 PM

<cite>Deviantangel wrote:</cite> <blockquote>I would rather see something useful added in order to give me experience....</blockquote>Not to beat a dead horse, but it is possible that player-made alcohol could be given useful effects. In EQ1, alcohol increased strength while decreasing intelligence/wisdom (I don't remember which). Lots of people used it and enjoyed it.A new drink that had an anti-fear effect or +strength/-intelligence boost might be something people would use.I meant for this to be a light thread, and it has been anything but, so I will continue to stay out of it. However, I will point out that a concept that many are calling "worthless" could develop more worth if persons were to contribute ideas for effects that (a) are not in the game (for drinks at least), but (b) people might value and buy, rather than dismissing it.

NANEEJE

10-31-2007, 11:14 PM

i FOR ONE.... would love to pound some alcohol, only to increase my stats, i hate seeing that 5/195 on my skills section, plus, if i just destroyed the creator in a great group, I call kelethin, and would really laugh if we had some alchoholic beverages that were fun effects, trying to stay on the bridges between kelethin... i see it now... (could you feed it to your mount?) lol.

zaneluke

11-01-2007, 08:02 AM

<cite>Eueadan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Not to beat a dead horse, but it is possible that player-made alcohol could be given useful effects. In EQ1, alcohol increased strength while decreasing intelligence/wisdom (I don't remember which). Lots of people used it and enjoyed it.I never used the drink in EQ1 and would never use it now. Why would a tank buy a +str - int/wis drink when he can just buy a + Str potion from an alchemist?A new drink that had an anti-fear effect or +strength/-intelligence boost might be something people would use.I think alchemists should have the market for this type of stuff. Kind of like asking that a mystic get a nuke spell like a warlock.I meant for this to be a light thread, and it has been anything but, so I will continue to stay out of it. However, I will point out that a concept that many are calling "worthless" could develop more worth if persons were to contribute ideas for effects that (a) are not in the game (for drinks at least), but (b) people might value and buy, rather than dismissing it.Effects other than power and hp regen out of combat are all drinks should be.Now how about a nice "rare" drink or food that uses a rare root,lasts for 4 hours and lets you regain hp/power while in combat?Now start to bring ideas to the table that help gameplay vs just being fun stuff and you might have a fan club.Otherwise, the large majority of people will boo you.</blockquote>