Aggro

[TripleJ7007]

<p>Been running with a brigand buddy as of late and normally we get an assassin to join us for grps. My question is how easy is it for them to get aggro? Seems they can take aggro off of me anytime they want. I've upgraded my taunts to master (got  Soooo lucky get them to drop) went 4-4-8 down the int line and all the way down the Stamina line. Not sure what else i should be doing. Mostly curious if its just a matter of skill (as in do I sux0r that bad) <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p> Alpharius- 51 Human Shadowknight</p><p> *edit* Shouldn't post before coffee. My spelling skill suffers</p>

[Beldin_]

<p>What level has the Brigand .. also 51 or higher ?</p><p>Normally Brigands steal mostly aggro with double-up (An attack that repeats the brigand's previous 2 seconds of certain combat arts on the target) but thats the 58 special.</p><p>Else ask him if he uses his detaunts regulary. Brigands don't have direct hate-transfers like swash or assassins, they only have a stance with a chance of a dehate-proc .</p>

[stahlej]

<p>Most high DPS classes can snapp aggro at will even with the 10% boost from Idolic Axe and 3% AE hare transfer from Siphon Hate.</p>

[Cichlasoma]

<p>Aggro control is all about timing and communication for the SK. Explain to them that SK's need a couple of seconds to gain hate and that they should be using their deaggro skills. After that the first thing to do is establish aggro before your assasin or brigand do anything. Start off with an HO where it finishes with your taunts, then tell the brigand and assasin to go in. The SK's AEs are his best friend for aggro so when you pull make sure you have enough room to pull these off. If its a problem with their style of play and they can't seem to control themselves then make them kiss dirt and FD them (best way to regain aggro). Overall you'll just have to find a combination that suits your play style, these are just some examples of things you could do and not every SK holds aggro the same way. Once you get DeathMarch it will be easier. </p>

[Cmdo Colin]

<p>Alpharius, if you are asking who controls aggro in that situation - I'm sorry, you don't really.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>In the way if a wizard opens up with mana burn you don't have any control over the aggro, scouts are pretty much the same.  Any scout with a hate transfer takes the control further away from any tank.  I've a 70 swash, and I personally feel when playing him that "I" am in control of aggro rather than anyone else in the group.</p>

[Dead Knight]

Brigands are indeed a problem. I can hold aggro off any class easily, except Brigands on single target and Warlocks on AE ( not the average Brigand and Warlock mind you, one that actually knows what they're doing ). The problem isn't that the players aren't controlling their aggro well enough, or that you suck. It's just that both classes have pretty much non-existant aggro control compared to their hate generation. Brigands generate huge single target hate with their DPS + heavy debuffs. Warlocks, well you've seen what they can do in a zone like LoA or EH 3rd floor.

[Aull]

<p>Dead Knight is so correct with his post. The more I play the more I learn that no matter what a tank does if the dps group members are not controlling that massive damage they will get aggro period! Some dps classes just want to strip aggro so they can flaunt their power, and tell the tank that the aggro problem is the tanks not the dps. I see this on most adventures I am on. Like a warlock in SoS nuking so hard that the tanks cannot even regain aggro after using rescue. The warlock just thinks he is cool and just waxxed four mobs with his power. I must say that is impressive, but let the warlock do that on a raid and watch the warlock die.....fast.</p><p>It all comes down to everyone working together to get this job done. I really ticks me off in a group where the dps is totally disrupting things so bad that delays from deaths or just sheer stupidity keeps the advancement from moving forward at a respectable pace. If you are doing your best at learning your toon and play it to the best of your ability then you shouldn't beat yourself up if you loose aggro every now and then. If at all possible write down the names of group members and how the group play went. If those members are educated players then the play would be great write down those names for your friends, if the play was bad due to others write those names down and avoid them.</p><p>I just look at it like a band of musicians, if they all play in harmony it is great music! Oh the guitarist can shread, but no matter how good he is at playing a solo rift if he can't time it with the rest of the band it just sounds like $#!+. </p><p>Thanks for your time.....I enjoy everyones input.</p>

[Dead Knight]

I don't mind the DPS going all out or peeling aggro once in a while as long as they can handle it, and the people I play with can. As far as I'm concerned, the fastest way with the least deaths is the best way. It's just a fact in EQ2 that a tank can hold aggro of any class, and if he's having consistent issues - it's him, not the player. Unless it's a Brigand or Warlock, because they have insane aggro generation, and SoE hasn't given them enough aggro control. In general though, I'm speaking about good players. The average Brigand or Warlock won't cause a problem, but one that plays their class to the fullest and best of their ability is an aggro machine.

[Beldin_]

<p>I also really feel with the poor warlocks, even if they pull aggro all time and don't die they mostly do less damage then my SK. They have really problems with their spells that have these really long casting times, so if they hold back the mobs are dead before they have finished casting, and if they cast early they have aggro <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Brigand is easier, they can better time when they pull aggro, and normally its when the mob dies directly after they get aggro.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dead Knight is so correct with his post. The more I play the more I learn that no matter what a tank does if the dps group members are not controlling that massive damage they will get aggro period! Some dps classes just want to strip aggro so they can flaunt their power, and tell the tank that the aggro problem is the tanks not the dps. I see this on most adventures I am on. Like a warlock in SoS nuking so hard that the tanks cannot even regain aggro after using rescue. The warlock just thinks he is cool and just waxxed four mobs with his power. I must say that is impressive, but let the warlock do that on a raid and watch the warlock die.....fast.</p><p>It all comes down to everyone working together to get this job done. I really ticks me off in a group where the dps is totally disrupting things so bad that delays from deaths or just sheer stupidity keeps the advancement from moving forward at a respectable pace. If you are doing your best at learning your toon and play it to the best of your ability then you shouldn't beat yourself up if you loose aggro every now and then. If at all possible write down the names of group members and how the group play went. If those members are educated players then the play would be great write down those names for your friends, if the play was bad due to others write those names down and avoid them.</p><p>I just look at it like a band of musicians, if they all play in harmony it is great music! Oh the guitarist can shread, but no matter how good he is at playing a solo rift if he can't time it with the rest of the band it just sounds like $#!+. </p><p>Thanks for your time.....I enjoy everyones input.</p></blockquote>I regularly group with the same two healers (when I'm on Uros.)  If we get an idiot like the example you gave, a mage taking agro purposefully, I instruct the priests privately to let him die.  People usually either get the hint quickly, or they leave.  Same with people who like to wander off and get adds.  Stay with the group, do what I tell you to do, or die.  It's that simple.  I like your example of a band, btw.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[TripleJ7007]

Many thanks for all the responses. Been grping like a fiend and seems the only peeps i have problems with are Warlocks and Brigands. Found out brigands get a CA called Ruse that bumps them up 2 hate spots so they can do more dmg or something, so I dont sweat about losing aggo to brigands. Thanks again for all the awesome advice. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Hamervelder]

<cite>TripleJ7007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Many thanks for all the responses. Been grping like a fiend and seems the only peeps i have problems with are Warlocks and Brigands. Found out brigands get a CA called Ruse that bumps them up 2 hate spots so they can do more dmg or something, so I dont sweat about losing aggo to brigands. Thanks again for all the awesome advice. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yeah, but Brigands shouldn't be using that in a group, not in my opinion anyway.  If he uses that and takes agro, then that's his fault, not yours.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dead Knight]

Yeah, Brigands shouldn't be using that in group, and definately not in a raid.

[Hamervelder]

I really have trouble w/ my best friend's bruiser.  I simply <i>cannot</i> keep agro off of her if she's grouped with me.  Scouts and mages, sure, I can adjust to their playstyle.  But the bruiser, forget it.  She's getting agro.

[Beldin_]

<p>Its normally Double-Up with what Brigands steal aggro <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>And Bruiser .. yeah .. you can't hold aggro against single-targets against them if they want to do some damage, however .. they are also tanks and can take some hits, so they have to know what they are doing <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>On the other hand .. i just tanked Aca today with my bruiser .. and say anybody again that SKs have aggro problems. Single targets no problem .. but group encounters were mostly aggro pingpong between my bruiser, the Inqui and the Brigand .. and sometimes even the Mystic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Dead Knight]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its normally Double-Up with what Brigands steal aggro <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>And Bruiser .. yeah .. you can't hold aggro against single-targets against them if they want to do some damage, however .. they are also tanks and can take some hits, so they have to know what they are doing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p>On the other hand .. i just tanked Aca today with my bruiser .. and say anybody again that SKs have aggro problems. Single targets no problem .. but group encounters were mostly aggro pingpong between my bruiser, the Inqui and the Brigand .. and sometimes even the Mystic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>That's strange, if you have aggro trouble at all, it should be single target. When it comes to AE aggro we are gods, and there's no way an Inquis, Brigand or Bruiser should take aggro since they're all pretty weak AE classes.

[Dead Knight]

<cite>Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really have trouble w/ my best friend's bruiser.  I simply <i>cannot</i> keep agro off of her if she's grouped with me.  Scouts and mages, sure, I can adjust to their playstyle.  But the bruiser, forget it.  She's getting agro.</blockquote>Bruisers pull aggro with Knockout combo, up your DPS and you shouldn't have issues.

[Coica]

 just drop into offensive stance and bust out the meanest 1h ya got. my groups have evolved to the rest of the group catching up to me in dps and starting to get agro more, so I've started going offensive mode and 1h more often.  seems to be helping me a lot so far. forces my healer to actually heal sometimes too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Dead Knight wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really have trouble w/ my best friend's bruiser.  I simply <i>cannot</i> keep agro off of her if she's grouped with me.  Scouts and mages, sure, I can adjust to their playstyle.  But the bruiser, forget it.  She's getting agro.</blockquote>Bruisers pull aggro with Knockout combo, up your DPS and you shouldn't have issues.</blockquote>I just FD her when she pulls agro.  She usually gets the hint.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  As you eluded to in your prior post though, it's not so much an issue on AoE fights.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Beldin_]

<cite>Dead Knight wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its normally Double-Up with what Brigands steal aggro <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>And Bruiser .. yeah .. you can't hold aggro against single-targets against them if they want to do some damage, however .. they are also tanks and can take some hits, so they have to know what they are doing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p><p>On the other hand .. i just tanked Aca today <b>with my bruiser</b> .. and say anybody again that SKs have aggro problems. Single targets no problem .. but group encounters were mostly aggro pingpong between my bruiser, the Inqui and the Brigand .. and sometimes even the Mystic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>That's strange, if you have aggro trouble at all, it should be single target. When it comes to AE aggro we are gods, and there's no way an Inquis, Brigand or Bruiser should take aggro since they're all pretty weak AE classes.</blockquote><p>You didn't understood what i wrote.</p><p>My BRUISER !!! had AoE-Aggro problem, my SK has absolutely no problems with that.</p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>Yes, DPS classes can rip aggro on a whim if they unload something major right off, or if they use a 'speciality' like the Brig aggro bump. Its not the usual situation though. Even without aggro transferers/reducers in group....I find that if I have a few mates really testing the aggro limits...it's fun to push it a bit too. Worse case, I'll swap out to 2 hander, pop a grandmaster INT potion, slip on a few extra proc pieces and go all out. This is dependant on gear/ability levels as well though. I find that fun actually, like rising to a challenge. Aside from a bud dropping a decap/fusion as an opening move (countered by any of rescue/FD/Deathmarch/PT normally)...aggro will lock quite nicely <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Dictating the pulls to coincide favorably with your timers, and positioning/moving mobs in a way that allows you to drop a few abilities earlier than the rest can make a big difference as well (ex abilites that can be cast on the run, while rounding up multi-groups, while turning mobs etc.).</p><p>Upgrading your taunts is not enough when faced with keeping aggro vs. well played, well upgraded DPSers. You need to upgrade everything too....taunts, CAs, offensive spells...and finish up your AAs.</p>

[Raca]

<cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really have trouble w/ my best friend's bruiser.  I simply <i>cannot</i> keep agro off of her if she's grouped with me.  Scouts and mages, sure, I can adjust to their playstyle.  But the bruiser, forget it.  She's getting agro.</blockquote>You're dps has a huge part in it. Most tanks that I peel dps off on my bruiser tank in defensive and dont know how to maximize dps.