Opinions on KoS AA spec?

[AikonHalcy]

<p>Alright, I know I've asked before.. but now I'm a 61 Pally and I have 50 AA points in my KoS tree, and I'd like to hear some feedback on my current AA spec and one that I am thinking about switching to.  My main, or soon to be secondary main, is a Warlock, so I do apologize in advance if I sound dumb.</p><p>Right now, I'm specced 4-4-8 in Agility, Stamina, and Intelligence.  Now, so far, this has been a great spec.  The only thing I'm uncertain about here though is Trample.  Trample is nice, but I've had a little bad luck with non-aggro mobs that walk around and accidently triggering them without noticing since it's auto.  But also, with good people playing behind dps classes, is it really necessary?  Will Trample actually be more helpful down the road?  Is there something else I'm missing about it?</p><p>I was thinking about dropping Agility, and because I am planning to be more of a tank, I was thinking of shifting to 4-4-8-8 Stamina, 4-4-8 Intelligence, and 8 in Strength.  How does that sound as a tanking spec (as far as KoS AA's go) ?  I know for EoF, Heros and Wraths are pretty much the way to go, right?</p><p>I also know that it's more of a "play to have fun" and "spec your AA's as you want to" thing, but some outside criticism can be a good thing.</p><p>Any advice or comments will be helpful.  Thanks in advance.</p>

[Prrasha]

I'd say if you're going that far into Stamina for tanking purposes, spend the 2 points and get the endline (8, 4/4/8/8, 4/4/8, plus the starter, leaves you one point anyway, so you're only losing 1 rank of strength for it).  Worth more than the 4 points of STR you'll get out of the 8th point there.I'd probably also switch to 4/3 or so STR; another source of haste can't hurt, and decent gear and buffs will leave you in diminishing-returns land for STR anyway.

[Rast]

<p>I can tell you as someone who uses the agi/sta/int spec, it is the best spec I've used and I've used quite a few.</p><p>in cases where you are concerned about pulling in non agro mobs (there aren't many places that you need to worry about this) just turn trample off for those fights.</p><p>When you are tanking dps = agro and you can't have enough of it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gpooba]

I was just wondering, I am only worried about being the best tank I can be. and right now I am spec'ed int 4/4/8 sta 4/4/8/8/2 an agi 4/3 . Reading your posts, do you think I should give up the hps and last ability of sta for agi 4/4/8? thanx for the input

[Gpooba]

I was just wondering, I am only worried about being the best tank I can be. and right now I am spec'ed int 4/4/8 sta 4/4/8/8/2 an agi 4/3 . Reading your posts, do you think I should give up the hps and last ability of sta for agi 4/4/8? thanx for the input

[Excalibre33]

<p>I'm on the fence... I love DA for tanking but as you get better geared it becomes less essential... unless you like testing your healerless limits like me. If I had a healer all the time, I'd definitely stick with the 4,4,8 trio.</p><p>I 'spose DA was designed to be an ohcrap button but I tend to use it tactically and too often to feel comfortable without it now... I'm also a hp junkie so I'm a big fan of maxing the Stamina line.</p><p>I tried the 4/4/8 trio for a while and liked it but just missed DA to much and swapped back like an idiot... but in single groups I never have an aggro problem with the reduced DPS and increased survivability. /shrug</p>

[Rast]

<p>well, I raid MT with the agi/sta/int 4/4/8 setup, so it can't be too bad for tanking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Granted, all I do is entry KoS stuff, but if you can MT raids with the spec, it should be just fine for groups <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Chia_Pet]

If you are looking to do a bit more DPS, sure... if you want to be a MT or one that saves everyones [Removed for Content] when the MT goes down...no.the DA and HPs will help you save the day when off tanking. the trample is good for multi encounters only. Im specced exactly as you are.think about it, in a raid your MT goes down( assuming you arent MT0 and you are still in offensive stance, you taunt, grab, hit DA and give healers a chance to get targeted on you, you give yourself a chance to switch back to sword and board and defensive stanse, and buy time for a rez for MT. a sigil and rescue will keep the mob firmly on you. with decent gear and hero line +25% block youll stay alive to either hand over the mob back to MT or keep it till its down.but again, if your worried about DPS more, then go 448 in each.

[Satyrfawn]

<cite>Oisin@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm on the fence... I love DA for tanking but as you get better geared it becomes less essential... unless you like testing your healerless limits like me. If I had a healer all the time, I'd definitely stick with the 4,4,8 trio.</p><p>I 'spose DA was designed to be an ohcrap button but I tend to use it tactically and too often to feel comfortable without it now... I'm also a hp junkie so I'm a big fan of maxing the Stamina line.</p><p>I tried the 4/4/8 trio for a while and liked it but just missed DA to much and swapped back like an idiot... but in single groups I never have an aggro problem with the reduced DPS and increased survivability. /shrug</p></blockquote>DA sure is handy in raids....but even in groups it's fun to throw up Divine Aura and pull a whole room, heheh.  You'll get comments like "impressive" or "didn't know Paladins could do that".  I'd agree with Oisin~ for grouping it's an 'oh, crap!' button, handy for bad pulls.  Once you learn a zone and the pulls, you may not find it all that usefull- especially if you don't raid..  I keep it because frequently I'm elected to pull a multi-mob raid encounter or finish tanking a Namer when the MT goes down.  Try both specs and pick the one that suits your play-style or grouping situation best I guess.

[Excalibre33]

<p>DA = instance named pulls for me. Could we do them w/o DA? ...sure.</p><p>I feel like tanking in EQ2 is the ultimate utility position. Is having more bluebar for your healers or DPSers more important to you? Mobs dropping faster helps both healers and DPS so a number of folks lean to the max DPS route being a win/win. I think a DA spec is the only thing that may come close to balancing that but, it's only on the occasional pull and only a huge help to your healers on the hardhitting encounters. More DPS helps everyone on every pull. I guess you could counter with the mentality that tanks that are <b>alive</b> help the DPSers do more damage too.... so it really is totally up to what fits you.</p><p>Some Paladins dig making the DPS parse. </p><p>I'm an instant gratification fan and want to be in control of my own destiny... Dropping DA when things get hairy or on a big pull that everyone expects me to be pushing daisy just makes me feel cool. Combine Sigil and DA and my 'lil dorfadin is a wrecking ball.</p><p>Either way you'll get "wow"s from folks paying attention. /wink</p>

[Buzzing]

<p>I have spent my card and a few plat even on my KoS AA lines and here is what I have found.</p><p> When you are in your sad but somehow useful mastercrafted armor the sta line is your best friend. Dieing is bad juju and it will save you ore then you know.</p><p>After building your gear to something better, like your legendary class gear, then you are going to want to spec 448 sta agi int for the dps. You will find at level 70 your agro isn't actually all that great against those fabled dpsing crazy people.</p><p>Once you have landed yourself some ok fabled gear (4600+ mit in def and around 8,800hp) you will find that you can hold agro better now and the trample is only good for group mobs. I would stick with it if you plan on using your tank fro groups only but if you are going to take the fighting role of MT or OT (I am our guild MT) I have found that a good spec is this 44872 sta and 44862 int with the last point at the top.</p><p> Hope that helps</p>

[Wyvernblade]

<p>I use the 4/4/8 agi/sta/int lines.  I have tanked FTH and some other various EoF instanced names.  Also, the spec works really well for OTing adds like the MMIS Mayong fight or the opening of the Tender of the Seedlings.</p>

[Demoley]

<cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>and the trample is only good for group mobs. I would stick with it if you plan on using your tank fro groups only but if you are going to take the fighting role of MT or OT (I am our guild MT) I have found that a good spec is this 44872 sta and 44862 int with the last point at the top.</p></blockquote>interesting, its only good for group mobs yet all the die hard raiding paladins who mt and ot use trample im rather interested in this logic how its only good for grouping would you please explain this to more thanks

[Buzzing]

<cite>Virutis@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>and the trample is only good for group mobs. I would stick with it if you plan on using your tank fro groups only but if you are going to take the fighting role of MT or OT (I am our guild MT) I have found that a good spec is this 44872 sta and 44862 int with the last point at the top.</p></blockquote>interesting, its only good for group mobs yet all the die hard raiding paladins who mt and ot use trample im rather interested in this logic how its only good for grouping would you please explain this to more thanks</blockquote><p>What I mean by only useful against group mobs is that it is a 40% chance of your auto attack effect multiple targets in front of you. That means if there is only one target in front of you it is doing nothing for you. So single target mobs are meh </p><p>Nothing is ever truely usless honestly. As far as Know most pali's find themselves as a primary off tank. There is no better spec for that at all. The aoe dps is essential for holding agro on all the other random crap that can comeout of raid mobs. If you are in the main tank spot you are the one that is going to need to stay alive longer then any other. Sta Int will help the most with that. I have tanked with both specs and like being able to stay up for that little bit longer if my healers are oop or even when most are stunned on a named fight.</p><p>All in all they are both very usful for you want to do most. My honest oppinion is STA INT all the way down for MT and 448 AGI STA INT for an off tank of primarily grouping pali.</p>

[ChopStix]

<p>i've never used the trample, because in the past you had to be on horseback so i never wanted it..  is this still the case?</p><p>i'm specced  str5, sta4/4/8/8,  int 8/4/8   paladins have to have intelligence to do more damage, half the paladins damage is from castable spells.... and if you cant hold multiple mob aggro without trample your doing something wrong..</p><p> paladins and beserkers are the easiest to hold aggro with against multiples, plus you have a tab button you can tab through the encounter to maximize aggro control on multiples.</p>

[Satyrfawn]

<cite>Danlar@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i've never used the trample, because in the past you had to be on horseback so i never wanted it..  is this still the case?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">No.  I think 'Trample' must be the most misunderstood ability in our arsenal.  First, 'Trample' has a 40% chance to proc (with 8 points into it) if you are on horseback or not- they changed it.</span></p><span style="color: #ffffff;">The argument regarding </span><i><span style="color: #ffffff;">"</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">what's the point in having 'Trample' when it's useless vs single-target encounters?</span></i><i><span style="color: #ffffff;">" </span></i><span style="color: #ffffff;">has come up before in other threads.  The rebuttal is that it's not useless vs single-target encounters.  I know someone will correct me if I don't  have this quite right, heh.... but 'Trample' will still proc vs a single-target encounter, and when it does, your weapon will proc off it as well (usually a crit), and herein lies the true beauty of 'Trample' whether it's single or multiple targets; it increases your chance to proc other procs.  Any attack-based buff you have on you- like a Wizard's 'Phoenixblade' for example- will proc.  Add a Dirge to your group who will be casting 'Cacophony of Blades', and you will get even more chances to proc.  Equip an Avatar-class weapon like 'Axe of Unending War', which procs a double-attack, and you can add about 1K to your dps just on auto-attack.  The caveat is you should have a nice weapon and lots of proc gear/buffs to take full advantage of 'Trample'</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span><span style="color: #ffffff;"><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">If you need more info on 'Trample', join the paladin ww channel and someone will be happy to explain it.    /join paladinsforright </span></p></span>

[Rast]

<p>ummm...  thor...</p><p>Trample doesn't require the horse anymore, that was removed with the AA revamps a while back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>it is a straight 40% now. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Satyrfawn]

<p>~ edited for correctness</p><p>Thor</p>

[Buzzing]

It only makes your auto attack effect multiple targets. That does not give an extra attack for the target you are fighting. Meaning it doesn't give you extra procks to work with. It will however proc your normal weapon and buffs when hitting all of the other targets you would not have normaly hit.

[Demoley]

<cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>It only makes your auto attack effect multiple targets. That does not give an extra attack for the target you are fighting. Meaning it doesn't give you extra procks to work with. It will however proc your normal weapon and buffs when hitting all of the other targets you would not have normaly hit.</blockquote>and have you spent countless hours testing this like i have the other?

[Tharinor Degaulle]

<p>I used to be 4-4-6-8-2 STA and 4-4-8 INT or something to that sort.  I switched to 4-4-8 AGI/INT and 4-4-8-1 STA a couple of months ago and won't be switching back.  We're not hitting the same mobs as Viritus and higher end raid MT with this spec and it holds group aggro and single target aggro better than any other spec without really creating an issue in staying alive.</p><p>Early on, when your HP suck from lack of gear and adornments, and when your entire raid's DPS is low, a pure STA and INT spec is likely fine for holding aggro, and will help battle any shortcomings your raid has in DPS and healing.  Eventually though you should switch to the AGI/STA/INT spec.  However, eventually what will happen as your raid's overall DPS increases, you'll start to have a harder time controlling aggro on group mobs in particular.  Trample and the 4-4-8 AGI/STA/INT spec will not only serve to correct this problem but it will increase your DPS in doing so, helping your raid that much more.  It's always preferred to control aggro through DPS.</p><p>Early on, the STA/INT route allowed me to run about 9.3K health self-buffed with non-EoF fabled gear (mostly EoF treasured, some EoF and KoS legendary, and some KoS fabled).  However, now with 3 of my fabled set pieces and other better fabled gear (still have some slots that need upgrades from KoS legendary/fabled or EoF legendary), I am running over 9.5K health self-buffed with a 4-4-8 AGI/INT 4-4-8-1 STA spec.  Divine Aura can be useful, but IMO it's like blade-dance.  It's never what I'd call necessary and can be replaced with your Mithaniel Marr miracle Marr's Barrier which is actually better, but with a 1 hour recast and 2 uses per miracle.</p>

[Tharinor Degaulle]

<p>I believe Trample actually works as a passive combat art, meaning it can go off on a single target and proc extra procs that can proc on a successful combat art.</p>