Why would I as a raider want aftershock?

[Thaylee]

I see so many people posting how that is the line to go down, and I don't get it. I used to have it but my raid leader made me drop it because it procs whenever is wants in an ae affect. There are a lot of Epics you cant use AE's on, and there no way to turn aftershock off ( as far as I know). And that simply makes it pointless as far as I'm concerned. If theres one epic I cant fight thats too many, and what I found out is thats theres a bunch. So might someone here enlighten me on why this would be a good aa line for a raider?

[knightofround]

Apocalypse is our highest DPS spell on both multimob and single target mobs. The only time the increased radii has screwed me was on the MOA trials. The radius increase is nice so you can still AE whenever your raid is split tanking. And Aftershocks is regularly 2% of my raid parse. It's tough to find a AA that increases your DPS by 2% that only costs 2 points.But the reason people go the line is to max out apocalypse, and since you have to go that far you might as well go the rest of the way. Apocalypse+Chaostorm+NullAbs+Rift = about 40-50% of my DPS, so increase their damage by 10% is an overall 4-5% increase in total DPS. Which is roughly equivalent to focused casting, so it's a matter of preference.

[Thaylee]

I guess I understand what your saying as far as DPS, but you skirted around my point. You can't do every mob because some encounters can't be ae'd, and you cant control aftershock. So actually if you had 1 encounter like that, in 4 hours of raiding then your zone wide dps is going to suck. Also you said it's roughly the same dps as focus casting.........sooooooooo if you CAN do ALL raid mobs w/ focus casting, well... I guess you just answered my question. You shouldn't have aftershock IMO. But ...... I hope someone else will chime in here and convince me otherwise, because I hate to give up my dps.

[XeroXs84]

<cite>Thaylee wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess I understand what your saying as far as DPS, but you skirted around my point. You can't do every mob because some encounters can't be ae'd, and you cant control aftershock. So actually if you had 1 encounter like that, in 4 hours of raiding then your zone wide dps is going to suck. Also you said it's roughly the same dps as focus casting.........sooooooooo if you CAN do ALL raid mobs w/ focus casting, well... I guess you just answered my question. You shouldn't have aftershock IMO. But ...... I hope someone else will chime in here and convince me otherwise, because I hate to give up my dps.</blockquote>Aftershock isnt AoE, it can proc on any damage on a single mob.. if u cast an aoe, it can ofc proc on every single mob (or maybe all of them).. but then you used an aoe and its not Aftershock that caused your problem.

[knightofround]

Really the only encounter I think of in the game that can't be AEed is Gnorbl in lyceum.The only situations where you can't AE are 1. Mezzing is required 2.  AEs will grab mobs through walls. For #1, regular AEs (Null abs, rift, the crappy stun, netherrealm) are fine, because they will not break mez; if the mob is mezzed they simply won't get hit by it. The only AEs you can't use the AE dots (Apocalypse, Chaostorm, Gift).For #2, I can't think of a single raid zone where AEs will grab mobs through the walls/floors. Perhaps MMIS or EH, as I haven't been there yet, but all of KOS+FTH+Clockwork is definitely safe, because those zones are designed to be bigger than single group instances.Focused casting is nice, but consider: Our highest DPS line is Propagations, so you definitely want that. That's 21 points. Looking at Hastenings, the only worthwhile AAs are E: War Pyre, and E: Void distortion. The rest is just 10 points of filler so you can get Focused Casting.On the other hand, in the aftershocks line every single ability is useful. Apoc+Chaostorm+NullAbs+Rift is our AE order.Now also consider: Since you already have propagation, you can get 3 points in war pyre and 5 points in void distortion for free, leaving you 21 points to fill another line. Vacous is useless, everything leading up to volatility is crap, so that leaves either getting Focused Casting and throwing 8 points into some random AA, or getting the entire Explosives line plus Aftershocks.Another thing to consider: FC gives you more dps, but also requires much more power. Whereas Aftershocks gives you extra dps free of mana. Especially in EoF content, where the fights are longer, mana conservation is often more important than pure dps output.

[miliskel]

i have tried every single spec for a warlock now, barrinbg stamina with anything in sorc tree, and i can also tell u that i found fc helped more on my zw in ae zones than aftershocks and aftershocks more on single target zones..i dunno how or why..but it did , might of just been random number generator in the raids i tested them in making the numbers low/high

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>There's also the issue that focussed casting basically buffs your spell haste to cap. If you're usually in a raid setup that gives you no spell haste it can be a big improvement for 15 seconds - but if you're usually troub + illu buffed (particularly TC) then it's a smaller benefit.</p><p>Then there are the little things, like if the tank is a slow puller and raid DPS is low, FC will be up every fight. If this isn't the case then it won't be, and you'll really feel the effect of the long reuse. And as someone has already pointed out, FC does need points in some total junk as well as pyre and distortion.</p>

[CelebornXI]

ok. where to start. So many wrong things in here.Focused casting is fun, and it can boost your single target dps for a few mobs in a zone.and working off of most of what  <span class="name"><b>knightofround, </b></span>nebula is a crap spell, that isn't worth casting, so don't waste points on it, Secondly with proper KoS aa spec, and a monk in raid your spell haste will be at 35%, which is near cap, so you really only use the reuse from TC anyways. Propogationis the best EoF line, and the damage shield can help your tank by increasing his damage output.You can hit war pyre, and void distort in the hastening line, 3in pyre 5 in distort, still have propogation, and after shock....No FC doesn't give you more dps, and it doesn't matter how much power it costs, i use an orb of the death revelr, and the robe of forgotten dreams, and never leave 80% power... Afterchocks is FREE dps, as long as your casting one of the 5 spells which triggers it.I can still hit 3.5k single target, and don't have FC.... there is no reason to have anything but 8 point into that line.and if your mezzing mobs, then your ae's wont be hitting them, and aftershocks won't be proc'ing on themin other words, why the heck are you mezzing in a raid? ae dps them down, mez on epics doesnt last very long anywaysdeal with it, and on gnorbl you can kill his adds just fine and kill him... you just need to have to be able to pump out the dps.

[Tyrion]

<p>Gonna have to say FC and Aftershocks are about the same to tbh.</p><p>Half the encounters in the game are single target. Only spell I can think of that you would use on a single target from Aftershocks line is Apocalypse; all the other spells you wouldn't, so Aftershocks barely procs and sucks [I cannot control my vocabulary], as does all that bonus damage on all your AoEs cause you're not casting them in the first place.</p><p>The best part about FC is that it works with ALL spells you cast. You put everything out faster, not only in casting speed, but with reduced recovery. When it comes down to it, you can lay down a heavy amount of damage, whether it be single or aoe/encounter, but only every couple minutes.</p><p>If you have a monk and ALWAYS have TC, I'd go Aftershocks, but if not, I'd go FC. Full points in to DoTs, Void Distortion and Soul Blister no less. AoE, it's easy to own folks on the parses, single target is where it'll show if you're a great warlock who knows his or her stuff, or you suck. Why hurt yourself with even more AoE damage that isn't necessary when you can boost all of your single target damage, and give yourself a head-start on every few encounters with TC.</p><p>p.s., power should never be an issue for any EoF equipped character. As the other poster mentioned, Orb of the Death Reviler, Robe of Forgotten Dreams (or even Nest robe), Sage's Cloak, DT Leggings, ect.. So easy to equip two to three power-proccing items in combination with Propagation, and you'll never run out of power, so FC using more power in that regard is a moot point if you have the gear.</p>

[knightofround]

Think about it this way...Focused casting is up every 2 mins 40 seconds with AGI line I think. It lasts for 15 seconds, where you can have 200% spellhase for 15 seconds. So it is up 15 / (60+60+40+15) = 8% of the time. With FC up 8% of the time, your dps will jump up to (0.92*1.5k)+(0.08*2.2k) = 1.55k. Note that this assumes that under FC you will do 1.5x your dps, which is a VERY liberal assumption, as your recast timers are not adjusted so the extra spells you cast are less efficient ones. (Not to mention any diminishing returns on spellhaste) Now also consider that when FC is up, you're burning thru your mana twice as fast.  Also consider that you have to sink 5 points in soul blister and scourge, our two worst parsing spells...for less than a 1% increase in dps.So lets look at aftershocks. If you do about 1.5k dps, it makes up about 2% of the parse. (At least with my spell order) Not only does it parse better than soul blister and scourge, but its *free*, it requires no casting time, no mana. A 1.5k parse will increase by about 2%, to about 1.53k. Now also consider that Apocalypse, NullAbs, Chaostorm, and Rift combined do about 40% of our parse. Getting aftershocks increases each of these abilities by 10%. So on the path leading down to aftershocks, you get 1.5k * 0.4 * 0.1 = 0.06k more dps. For a totaly of 1.59k dps, pretty much the same as focus casting.So you're looking at the same amount of DPS either way...the difference is that Focused Casting 1. Costs more mana 2. Makes you spike aggro whenever it is up. On the other hand, aftershocks is 1. Mana-free 2. Consistently spreads out extra dps over time, so you can better manage the aggro line.Given the two options of equal dps, I will take the consistent damage over the spike damage every day of the week. Sure FC might be more effective if you take a long time between pulls and fights are lasting only 15 seconds...but these are not the scenarios that your raid needs you to put out the big dps. It's the longer, tougher battles that matter.

[CelebornXI]

and spell haste is capped when the casting time for a spell is reduced in half, so 100%sitting at 35% with allegro, aa, and a monk in raid, not to mention the extra what 20ish from tc if you have itFC is useless, why waste all those points into something that you can only use every like, 2min at the least.it doesn't make sense. Especially if you don't have the reuse to actually use all the spell haste, o joy i cast all my spells *twiddle thumbs for 10seconds*... That is all.

[Deathspell]

When I look at the propagations line, it doesn't look attractive and at first sight it doesn't look like the better choice at all, but i'm willing to do a respec and check it out.It's just that, I don't really see how it can improve our dps that much, especially not for calling it our best AA Warlock line...I mean, it depends on %-procs which are pretty random, and it's casted on melee players which will have to "melee" for it to take effect.Am I wrong in seeing this more of an increased group dps instead of your own dps? 

[miliskel]

corrupt gift 5 increases dps quite a bit, di 5 increases dps alot, nihilistics 5 helps the tank keep aggro from the damage proc 5 on the melee proc increases a meelers damage and propogations increases ur groups proc chance on all except adornment procs, i think that the bonus to ur raid force is better than a slight bit of dps from explosives/hastenings (which if u have alot of proc gear would prolly be lower increase)

[Araxes]

I hate Gnorbl.That is all.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Thaylee]

Wow.... Thanks all for all the help. I havn't checked this post in a week or so. I guess I really just didn't understand how aftershock proc'd. Thanks so much. I will be going back to aftershock when we get our extra aa's. I have a monk in the raid and most of the time a troub in the group. The main warlock in my guild parses 3k regularly on singles and up to 6 to 7k on  6+ encounters, and he has aftershock. I'm still around 2k and 3+ k on multiples, but I'm not nearly as [Removed for Content] as him. I'm parsing pretty good and I dont have fc or aftershock. I have prop and a mix line of the explosive line and fc line. It works very well, but i cant wait to get those extra 20 aa's.

[Thaylee]

And yeah, this post was based around Gnorbl. But my new guild rarely does him, and if we do it doesnt matter that the other warlock has  aftershock, we just burn him down. My old guild leader was dumb, he made me change my whole aa line for one mob.

[Deathspell]

Guys, I got 21 points spent in Aftershocks, but when you go Propagations, how many points do you put in there?Do you put points in every Propagation-ability? Or do you put 5 in some and skip some others in the line?I can put 3 in each, and 5 in Dark Infestation to get 20 alltogether, +1 for the final ability = 21 total.3 Malignant Grasp3 Boon of the Damned3 Nihilistics3 Corrupt Gift5 Dark Infestation3 Netherous RealmThat leaves me 8 points.Better to use them on War Pyre (3) and Void Distortion (5)? Or divide 8 more points in Propagations line? Or even some in Nebula?5 Malignant Grasp 3 Boon of the Damned 5 Nihilistics 5 Corrupt Gift 5 Dark Infestation 5 Netherous Realm