Harvest ratio of ore

[LordDragone]

<p>I know this has been mentioned before but I feel it warrents being brought up again. Can we <b><i><u>PLEASE </u></i></b>increase the harvest ration for ore OVER loam? I just spent 2 days harvesting T3 and in that 2 days I harvested:</p><p>Carbonite ore - 201</p><p>Steel cluster - 3 (YAY)</p><p>Pliant Loam - 398 (no that is not an exageration)</p><p>Malleable loam - 5</p><p>As an alchemist I am begging you to reduce the loam and increase the ore harvest! This is a bit reduculous don't you think?</p>

[Wulvereen]

Funny that you bring this topic up I noticed the same thing the other day.  I think the problem is more that wood has one harvest type roots have one harvest type compared to the ores 2 harvest types.  But could be worse look at food harvest ;P

[LibraTari]

If anything it should be 1:1 but in reality should be 3 (ore) : 1 (loam) and I don't thinking tinkerers should be the excuse in which not to change it. Almost all tradeskillers use ore (except provisioner) but some do not even touch the loam.

[Asteroid]

For T3, only two professions use loam (Alchemist and Jeweler) while six use ore (Armorer, Carpenter, Jeweler, Tailor, Weaponsmith, and Woodworker). This does change a little bit in the higher tiers as Provisioners, and I believe even Carpenters, use loam for one or two recipes.

[Lortet]

I have similar ratios when I harvest as well - but (and this has been brought up in earlier threads) it seems to be due to the number of items per harvest rather than which appears. Clusters seem to almost always be singles, while the 3's and 5's are usually loams. I tend to get the occasional steel cluster as a single item, while my rare loams are with 10 loams.

[caemlyn]

<p>Yes i have noticed that as well but also this morning i was out harvesting wood and roots for my sage i need equaly amount of each as a sage and when i was on the 7th stack for wood roots was still only on the 4th one.   With wood i get way more 3's and 5's on roots i tend to get lots of 1's with the ocatinal 3 and maybe ones in a blue moon a 5.</p><p>All this is doing is driving the crafters who does harvest them selfes nuts and those who harvest for money richer last time i checked a succulent root on the broker the cheapest was about 10s take that x50 and lets say 10 stacks if you want to grind some in tradeskill room.</p><p>10x50x10=5000s=50g how many crafters can afford that without going to the gworkers and the same price is for ore whitch was the topic on this post.</p><p>ok enough rambeling from me (drive up the harvestratio for some nodes)</p>

[Tylia]

<cite>LordDragone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know this has been mentioned before but I feel it warrents being brought up again. Can we <b><i><u>PLEASE </u></i></b>increase the harvest ration for ore OVER loam? I just spent 2 days harvesting T3 and in that 2 days I harvested:</p><p>Carbonite ore - 201</p><p>Steel cluster - 3 (YAY)</p><p>Pliant Loam - 398 (no that is not an exageration)</p><p>Malleable loam - 5</p><p>As an alchemist I am begging you to reduce the loam and increase the ore harvest! This is a bit reduculous don't you think?</p></blockquote>I agree.  The difference is very unbalanced.  When I was raising my tinkering I could buy loams for 2cp each while the ore's (which you also use a lot of in tinkering) were ridiculously priced.  I didn't have the time to go out harvesting for days for these raws, so I spent quite a bit of coin buying ore.  When I do harvest, I clear everything and always end up with a load of wood that I throw away, as well as a lot of loam, but usually a very small amount of ore.

[Wilde_Night]

Actually, Provisioners use loam as well and in T7 some recipes call for even soft metal, wood and ore.  But, yeah, Provisioners don't use that much loam.  1:1 or 2:1 would be better, it seems the opposite right now.  I almost always get twice as much loam as ore when I harvest and this is for all tiers.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>inkasnana wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>I agree.  The difference is very unbalanced.  When I was raising my tinkering I could buy loams for 2cp each while the ore's (which you also use a lot of in tinkering) were ridiculously priced.  I didn't have the time to go out harvesting for days for these raws, so I spent quite a bit of coin buying ore.  When I do harvest, I clear everything and always end up with a load of wood that I throw away, as well as a lot of loam, but usually a very small amount of ore.</p></blockquote><p>Wish I had been that lucky when I leveled my tinkerer.. Except for T7, all loams were higher priced then metalls so I ended up harvesting pretty much every loam I needed.</p><p>One thing that I think has to play into the ore vs loam ratio is the rares. T1-6 and T7 are different on the values between the sorts, but lowering the loam rate would lower the amount of rares for two archetypes adept3s. Both soft metal and gems support only 1 archetype each, and with less loams there would be less rare loams wich would mean higher price on fighter and scout adept3s. And with crafted items being in the state they are at the moment, rare crafted armour/weapons isnt really sought after, even tho the non rare raws are. Either way you balance the ratios its gonna be wacked out in one way or another.</p>

[zaneluke]

I think there is a slight issue with meatal vs loam drop rate. It should be 50/50 no more no less.Or just get it over with and make a new harvesting skill and a new node. fungus.Then people will complain that there are too many fungus nodes.You reach bottle necks while crafting and the hard ore is one of them for some classes. My carpenter went through it for teir 6 and so did my alchemist. But folks.........when you buy this stuff off the broker you only encourage the people to go out and harvest it for you and get rich off you. harvest  it your self.

[Cheydak]

<cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think there is a slight issue with meatal vs loam drop rate. It should be 50/50 no more no less.Or just get it over with and make a new harvesting skill and a new node. fungus.Then people will complain that there are too many fungus nodes.You reach bottle necks while crafting and the hard ore is one of them for some classes. My carpenter went through it for teir 6 and so did my alchemist. But folks.........when you buy this stuff off the broker you only encourage the people to go out and harvest it for you and get rich off you. harvest  it your self.</blockquote><p>Actually, I'd just be happy if the recipes for the hard metal users were adjusted to call for fewer ores per combine.  That might be a simpler fix than futzing with nodes.  </p><p>I do all of my own harvesting because I'm cheap and refuse to pay for items I can obtain myself but it's definitely caused a bottleneck in my carpenter's advancement.  My latest crafters are a sage and carpenter, both started on the same day.  The sage is currently level 62 about to ding 63, the carpenter is 52.  The disparity in advancement is caused solely by the continual need to harvest ores and the low yield of hard metals.  I've seen posts from other people which show that, for them, the ratio of metals and loams balance out to 1:1 after harvesting for several hours.  While I don't dispute their results, I know for a fact that has NOT been my experience.  It's becoming very frustrating and is the sole factor in my decision to not level any other crafter that uses hard metal as a primary raw.  </p>

[Terron]

With the commons I would prefer more ore, but with the rares I's defintely prefer more loams. Half of all adventuring classes need rare loams to get adept IIIs made.

[Rijacki]

Just as an aside, I have noticed an increase in the number of ore nodes in T3, significantly, and T4, slightly, which were, in the past, the two tiers I personally thought had too few nodes.But, I, too, have noticed an increase in the ratio of loam to ore.  I worry, though, that if the loam ratio is tweaked down again, it will also drastically increase the rarity of rare loam as it seemed to in the past.

[Mew]

I agree. The loam to ore ratio is way out of whack at all tiers.  Please, increase the ore drop rate!

[Harvash]

<p>Was just thinking of this the other day.  The majority of my toons are Scouts & Fighters - and finding Rare Loams and Metals is a complete pain!  No wonder the pricing is off by a mile, Fighters and Scouts share the same rare needs, while only 4 of 6 priests and no mages share anything.</p><p> Fighters & Scouts need rare loams for spell upgrades - Priests and Mages both use a different type, this means your already looking for something that is twice as rare as the next guys needs. How is that balanced?</p><p>This is not a complaint, but rather a question of why this was done, especially given the low harvest rates of both the common and rare metals as well as the fact that there are 2 rares out of the Ore - already cutting your chance in half for getting whats needed.</p><p>I know they took the fungus nodes out a long time ago, but maybe its time to revist that idea again and give either the fighters or the scouts their own spell rare.  Heck, you make Ore give only Hard metal rare/common and the "fungus" node the loam common/rare - seems that would solve the problem altogether. Magic mushrooms anyone!</p><p> Just a thought, Domino!..lol</p>

[rumblepants]

<cite>Eneoki@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Was just thinking of this the other day.  The majority of my toons are Scouts & Fighters - and finding Rare Loams and Metals is a complete pain!  No wonder the pricing is off by a mile, Fighters and Scouts share the same rare needs, while only 4 of 6 priests and no mages share anything.</p><p><b> Fighters & Scouts need rare loams for spell upgrades - Priests and Mages both use a different type, this means your already looking for something that is twice as rare as the next guys needs. How is that balanced?</b></p></blockquote>The rares required for Priest and Mages are also rares needed to craft Jewelry. Rare loams are not needed for anything else.

[ke'la]

<cite>Lortet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have similar ratios when I harvest as well - but (and this has been brought up in earlier threads) it seems to be due to the number of items per harvest rather than which appears. Clusters seem to almost always be singles, while the 3's and 5's are usually loams. I tend to get the occasional steel cluster as a single item, while my rare loams are with 10 loams.</blockquote>Really? I usually see the opposit lots of 1s and 3s of Loam, while I get very few Clusters but they almost always are 5s, so I usually end up with a nearly even number of Loams and Clusters(however this is with a 70 harvester in a T4 zone, wich may have something to do with it)

[Calthine]

I did about 5 hours of T6 and to my surprise the metals came out almost even, rares included.  I didn't take down numbers, but I recall I had 6 slots each of ore and loam.

[ke'la]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did about 5 hours of T6 and to my surprise the metals came out almost even, rares included.  I didn't take down numbers, but I recall I had 6 slots each of ore and loam.</blockquote>Thats what I always seem to find too, while I always seem to "harvest" more loam(meaning I get more "you found Loam" harvests then ones that say Ore) when I accually open my inventory I generally see my Ore and Loam stacks about even(with maybe a differance of 10 one way or the other)

[Cheydak]

<p>I kept records for about a week while harvesting in T5 for my carpenter just to see if my results would be similar to ones cited by others.  My harvester was a level 70 with maxxed skills and each session was a minimum of three hours per day.   I won't bore people with the details (and I can't locate my notebook anyway LOL) but the end result was almost a 2:1 ratio of loams to metals.  Even when I harvested a rare, if it was a metal, it was seldom accompanied by the 10 commons that always seemed to accompany my harvesting a rare loam or wood or whatever.  The number of times I would harvest more than one metal at a time was a noteworthy occasion whereas I could pick up 3 or 5 loams easily each pull.  As I said in an earlier post...I'm not disputing that other people manage a 1:1 ratio.  That just hasn't been the case for me at all and it's a major source of frustration.  Then again, if it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p>

[rumblepants]

<p>My experiences have been been on both sides of the fence. I'll either see a 1:1 ratio for a few weeks, and in another period 3:1 loams to hard metal. And yes I also see the same where with most of my rare loams its accompanied by 10 commons where with rare hard metals I rarely ever see it with 10 commons. </p>

[Webin]

Despite what Domino says, I actually think the broker is a decent measurement guide, based on the fact that people (and by extension, people who sell raws on the broker) act in predictable ways.  Search for T6 ore, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Search for T6 loam, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Try the other tiers.There is a very clear pattern, which leads to a very clear conclusion..... give us more ore, you stingy nodes.

[zaneluke]

<cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Despite what Domino says, I actually think the broker is a decent measurement guide, based on the fact that people (and by extension, people who sell raws on the broker) act in predictable ways.  Search for T6 ore, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Search for T6 loam, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Try the other tiers.There is a very clear pattern, which leads to a very clear conclusion..... give us more ore, you stingy nodes.</blockquote>O your theory is so very very very very wrong. The broker is NOT a decent measurement of drop rate. I have a carpenter and i use the ore but not the loam. i go out and harvest and keep everything i use and toss the loam up for chump change because everyone else is doing it too.My alchemist buys loam off the markey but has to go out and harvest roots, he keeps the roots and harvests the pelts and keep those too for my next crafting toon, but dumps the meat on the broker for chump change.Once again, i honestly think any one who compares to whats on the market to what is being dropped is wrong in using that as any tool to measure drop rate.

[Vellandra]

<cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Despite what Domino says, I actually think the broker is a decent measurement guide, based on the fact that people (and by extension, people who sell raws on the broker) act in predictable ways.  Search for T6 ore, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Search for T6 loam, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Try the other tiers.There is a very clear pattern, which leads to a very clear conclusion..... give us more ore, you stingy nodes.</blockquote>O your theory is so very very very very wrong. The broker is NOT a decent measurement of drop rate. I have a carpenter and i use the ore but not the loam. i go out and harvest and keep everything i use and toss the loam up for chump change because everyone else is doing it too.My alchemist buys loam off the markey but has to go out and harvest roots, he keeps the roots and harvests the pelts and keep those too for my next crafting toon, but dumps the meat on the broker for chump change.Once again, i honestly think any one who compares to whats on the market to what is being dropped is wrong in using that as any tool to measure drop rate.</blockquote><p>I'm afraid i think you've misunderstood.  We're not suggesting the broker can be used to determine drop rates.</p><p>We're suggesting that the broker can be used to measure supply vs demand of common raws, since this is the actual issie here.  Nobody would care how often ore was harvested if it was in low demand, like the various shrubbery raws.  They're on the broker at a low price because supply of them far exceeds the demand.  Similarly with wood.</p><p>Ore, however, is priced very highly over every tier on every server I've look on (7 or 8, not all, so some servers may be different).  This is because the demand for ore - with it being used in large quantities by a large number of classes - far outstrips the supply of it, given that it shares a node and so is less common than most other raws.</p><p>Given the high price of ore, and the leading conclusion that the supply of ore is not high enough to cope with the demand for it, I don't see how there is an arguement not to increase the harvest rate of ore clusters.  However, DOmino has ignored every suggestion that the players have come up with to combat this idea, and has stated outright that *she's not listening, lalalala* if anyone brings it up.</p>

[Leatherneck]

Good to know it's not just me.  I did a fair amount of harvesting over the weekend and saw much less in the way of ores than any other single type of harvest result.  I figured I just must have been having bad luck.

[Magic]

<p>I find that the random number generator tends to be streaky.  Sometimes I get too many of one or the other.  I'd much rather have the choice of what I'm harvesting as I do with roots and woods.</p><p>I have what I believe to be a wonderful idea.  I want you all to tell me what you think about it and if we should ask the devs to put it into the game.</p><p>I propose a series of spells, made by sages of course, that can be scribed by any class.  These spells magically grant you the ability to extract only the raws that you wanted, and any rare result would be the same type too!  The spell duration could be until cancelled but proc only three times and then expire.  For example, a malachite extraction spell to allow me to extract malachite from tier 1 stone nodes.  If I fail to get a raw after 20 attempts, the spell does not proc and I still have three charges left in it.  The moment that I succeed in getting a raw, the proc activates and my result will be a malachite.  It would only work on nodes that grant malachite.  There would be a spell for each of the raws in every tier.</p><p>Now I think to be fair, the spell should come in apprentice and adept levels.  The adept 3 being the best odds to get what you want out of each attempt, and apprentice 1 being the worst odds.  Your odds with apprentice 1 should still be noticeably better than not having it at all.  Of course the devs could just make it a spell with no specific levels or qualities such as gem extraction, pelt extraction, and so forth that would work at any level so long as you have enough skill to harvest that node.  I don't care either way.  Or maybe even categorized specifically for a particular tradeskill class such as one that might be called  "sage's craft" which grants excellent odds at extracting everything that a sage needs for that tier.</p><p>It would give sages a bigger market for selling wares.  I know for certain that I would make use of all of these spells!</p>

[Harvash]

<cite>rumblepants79 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The rares required for Priest and Mages are also rares needed to craft Jewelry. Rare loams are not needed for anything else</blockquote><p>Actually I meant only that Scouts & Fighters share a Spell/Art Rare - Priest & Mage do not.  So, 12 Classes share a loam while the remaining classes are split 6 and 6 for soft metal or gem, respectively.  Further, yes, those rares are shared with jewerly, so are the metals used in Scout/Fighter Armor. Mages use only a root.  And with the cross-over itemization, various rares are needed and intermixed BY ALL CLASSES- roots for hex dolls, gems and metals for jewerly and leather for belts.</p><p>Add to this that the Hard Metal rare, (the one for weapons and armor) is needed by a disproportionate number of classes, for example the following armor requirements:</p><p>4 Classes need a pelt for leather (talking, desirable here, not who can actually wear what - no scouts in robes, no warriors in leather..<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />)</p><p>6 need a root for cloth</p><p>AND</p><p>FOURTEEN CLASSES NEED A HARD METAL.</p><p>Further, as far as the 14 classes that need a Hard Metal, basically all 24 classes are looking for one or more hard metals for their weapons...</p><p>In closing, I say - Bring On The Magic 'Shrooms</p><p>kkthks</p>

[Harvash]

<p>Bleh, I forgot another imporant point, added here for clarity..lol</p><p>Now, 2 nodes produce the same rare, Roots and Food Bushes - a great boon, maybe, to the Tailor/Provisioner</p><p>1 Node produces the Art rare (Loam)  for Two Class Arch-types (Fighter/Scout) as well as the Rare Metal required by 14 Classes (as opposed to the needs of the classes mentioned in my previous metric) - I would submit that this is a bit lopsided.</p><p>This message brought to you by the friends of the "Reinstate The Magic 'Shroom" campaign.</p><p>thks </p>

[zaneluke]

<cite>Vellandra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Despite what Domino says, I actually think the broker is a decent measurement guide, based on the fact that people (and by extension, people who sell raws on the broker) act in predictable ways.  Search for T6 ore, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Search for T6 loam, note roughly how many are available and at what price.  Try the other tiers.There is a very clear pattern, which leads to a very clear conclusion..... give us more ore, you stingy nodes.</blockquote>O your theory is so very very very very wrong. The broker is NOT a decent measurement of drop rate. I have a carpenter and i use the ore but not the loam. i go out and harvest and keep everything i use and toss the loam up for chump change because everyone else is doing it too.My alchemist buys loam off the markey but has to go out and harvest roots, he keeps the roots and harvests the pelts and keep those too for my next crafting toon, but dumps the meat on the broker for chump change.Once again, i honestly think any one who compares to whats on the market to what is being dropped is wrong in using that as any tool to measure drop rate.</blockquote><p>I'm afraid i think you've misunderstood.  We're not suggesting the broker can be used to determine drop rates.</p><p>We're suggesting that the broker can be used to measure supply vs demand of common raws, since this is the actual issie here.  Nobody would care how often ore was harvested if it was in low demand, like the various shrubbery raws.  They're on the broker at a low price because supply of them far exceeds the demand.  Similarly with wood.</p><p>Ore, however, is priced very highly over every tier on every server I've look on (7 or 8, not all, so some servers may be different).  This is because the demand for ore - with it being used in large quantities by a large number of classes - far outstrips the supply of it, given that it shares a node and so is less common than most other raws.</p><p>Given the high price of ore, and the leading conclusion that the supply of ore is not high enough to cope with the demand for it, I don't see how there is an arguement not to increase the harvest rate of ore clusters.  However, DOmino has ignored every suggestion that the players have come up with to combat this idea, and has stated outright that *she's not listening, lalalala* if anyone brings it up.</p></blockquote>I apologize, in our quoted post you never mentioned the words supply and demand, my bad. There IS a higher DEMAND for rare loam for spells and rare portions. vs the low demand for rare ores.But there is a higher demand for basic raw ore vs basic raw loam.That is the issue i see with increasing ore vs loam rate. If you raise the drop of ore and throttle back the drop of loam you just made rare loams even that more rare .honestly i think they just need to treat loam like roots. And give them thier own node say.......fungus.or............................... ................Ore node 66.66% ore 33.3% loamRoot node 66.6% root 33.3% loamthat would be dandy.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Eneoki@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Now, 2 nodes produce the same rare, Roots and Food Bushes - a great boon, maybe, to the Tailor/Provisioner</p></blockquote>Heh, just gave me an idea.. The main issue with changing loam vs metal is the rares. All nodes except two used to have a rare, now only one lacks a rare.. Maybe increase the fishing populace by adding rare loam to the shoals in same way as roots for shrubs? Would have to increase the fishing nodes in many areas tho, from being almost only the node type up long ago to barely a single one when you need one today..

[valkry]

<p>I'd like to see the receipes looked at for item parity. Why are metals used on almost every craft item (except provies), when metals are already gettting used at a very high rate for (6 ore for a breastplate) for armourer? </p><p>If metal MUST be used by carp/tailor/scribes, adjust the reciepes so they only use one, not two for each craft and look at items which logically shouldn't need metals. For example, the Halasian bearskin rug uses 4 roots, 2 ore, 2 wood. Did anyone else notice that a <span style="color: #ff9933;">bearski</span><span style="color: #ff6666;">n</span> rug doesn't use a single <span style="color: #ff6666;">hide</span>? /boggle How uncomfortable would a rug made out of metal and wood be exactly?</p>

[Asteroid]

From my harvesting today ... harvesting in Tenebrous Tangle (Tier 7) at 350 skill.655 ore650 loam6 rare loam2 rare ore9 scintillating materialDoesn't look broke to me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magic]

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote>...For example, the Halasian bearskin rug uses 4 roots, 2 ore, 2 wood. Did anyone else notice that a <span style="color: #ff9933;">bearski</span><span style="color: #ff6666;">n</span> rug doesn't use a single <span style="color: #ff6666;">hide</span>? /boggle How uncomfortable would a rug made out of metal and wood be exactly?</blockquote>It's a metal plate with a bunch of wood chips stuck on top to make it soft, or the Halasian bears are actually Klak'Anon robots!!!  <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Leatherneck]

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Did anyone else notice that a <span style="color: #ff9933;">bearski</span><span style="color: #ff6666;">n</span> rug doesn't use a single <span style="color: #ff6666;">hide</span>? /boggle How uncomfortable would a rug made out of metal and wood be exactly?</p></blockquote><p>Don't the bears in your neck of the woods look like this?</p><p><img src="http://www.dottocomu.com/b/archives/images/ibearsilver.jpg" alt="" width="141" height="200" border="0" /></p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Shadowfire wrote:</cite><blockquote>From my harvesting today ... harvesting in Tenebrous Tangle (Tier 7) at 350 skill.655 ore650 loam6 rare loam2 rare ore9 scintillating materialDoesn't look broke to me. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>That is not even close to how the lower tiers look, and as such the lower tiers are a highly needed in order to lvl many tradeskills.T7 for me also is the EASIEST tier for me to get the materials I need for any of my tradeskillers.

[Donilla]

<p>One word "Feyiron". Arg. The ratio of loam to ore isn't even close to 1:1, or even 3:1 for that matter. For every 3 stacks of loam I get 1 stack of ore, if I'm lucky. And good thing I have a level 60+ toon, since the only place the ore nodes ever seem to spawn at all is in EL, with the laimis and evil eyes. My ranger is woodworker, and not only does she need the iron to keep leveling, she also need the arrows, both to use and to make money to buy the gear rangers need. Toss in a carpenter at the save level, and it adds up to 2 whole days of harvesting game time just to move slightly up the tradeskill ladder.  I definately agree there is an issue with ores. /sigh</p><p>Donilla Deverry, Ranger of 67, woodworker of 37</p>

[Harvash]

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eneoki@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Now, 2 nodes produce the same rare, Roots and Food Bushes - a great boon, maybe, to the Tailor/Provisioner</p></blockquote>Heh, just gave me an idea.. The main issue with changing loam vs metal is the rares. All nodes except two used to have a rare, now only one lacks a rare.. Maybe increase the fishing populace by adding rare loam to the shoals in same way as roots for shrubs? Would have to increase the fishing nodes in many areas tho, from being almost only the node type up long ago to barely a single one when you need one today..</blockquote>Hey, I had almost forgot about those fishing nodes!  Thats not a bad idea either, considering almost no one fishes <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> 

[Calris]

<cite>Lortet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have similar ratios when I harvest as well - but (and this has been brought up in earlier threads) it seems to be due to the number of items per harvest rather than which appears. Clusters seem to almost always be singles, while the 3's and 5's are usually loams. I tend to get the occasional steel cluster as a single item, while my rare loams are with 10 loams.</blockquote>Seems to me that this is what needs to be adjusted, then. Offhand, it seems that most resources commonly dig up in 2s and 3s and such. Hard ores seem to be the only one that almost always digs up in 1s. So, don't increase how commonly strikes yield hard ore vs loam, increase how many hard ore comes out of the node per strike.

[Harvash]

<cite>Calris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lortet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have similar ratios when I harvest as well - but (and this has been brought up in earlier threads) it seems to be due to the number of items per harvest rather than which appears. Clusters seem to almost always be singles, while the 3's and 5's are usually loams. I tend to get the occasional steel cluster as a single item, while my rare loams are with 10 loams.</blockquote>Seems to me that this is what needs to be adjusted, then. Offhand, it seems that most resources commonly dig up in 2s and 3s and such. Hard ores seem to be the only one that almost always digs up in 1s. So, don't increase how commonly strikes yield hard ore vs loam, increase how many hard ore comes out of the node per strike.</blockquote>Another great point here as well.  I have also noticed the same effects with loam vs metals.  This seems to be a pretty productive thread with lots of good ideas to ponders, let's just hope someone is listening..<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Why not introduce a new tinkerer robot/item that can convert unwanted common loams to common metals and vice versa, either for a price or maybe a 2 (or more) to 1 ratio? </p><p>You could have one for each tier and not make them no-trade. It would provide a couple more recipes for Tinkerers and keep the crafters happier. </p>

[Iseabeil]

<cite>donilla wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One word "Feyiron". Arg. The ratio of loam to ore isn't even close to 1:1, or even 3:1 for that matter. For every 3 stacks of loam I get 1 stack of ore, if I'm lucky. And good thing I have a level 60+ toon, since the only place the ore nodes ever seem to spawn at all is in EL, with the laimis and evil eyes. My ranger is woodworker, and not only does she need the iron to keep leveling, she also need the arrows, both to use and to make money to buy the gear rangers need. Toss in a carpenter at the save level, and it adds up to 2 whole days of harvesting game time just to move slightly up the tradeskill ladder.  I definately agree there is an issue with ores. /sigh</p><p>Donilla Deverry, Ranger of 67, woodworker of 37</p></blockquote>If you have a character with Cove of Decay access and have greyed out the zone, tier 4 is one of the easiest to harvest really. Zone in, harvest all nodes you have interest in and leave all else. Zone out and zone back in. Rinse and repeat. No lockouts, no competition for nodes, no need to harvest the area clear of nodes you dont want. If you dont have access, I really recomend getting it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Condar Tarsonia]

I just wanted to throw my own opinions in here, since I've been harvesting quite a lot to level my woodworker, and for rares for an alt.I agree with nearly everyone else here that the ore:loam ratio needs to be tweaked.  I also agree that broker prices are a good reflection of the scarcity of a particular resource, or if not the scarcity, the desirability.  When leveling my woodworker, I didn't consider buying any ore in T4 - it was just too darn expensive.  The other night, I went back to EL to harvest for Opals and found quite a few ore nodes during that time - picked up 4 rare loams and 1 feysteel cluster, and close to 3 stacks of loam and about 1.5 stacks of ore.  I didn't think twice about destroying the loam, and put the ore up at an extremely reduced (comparatively) price to others selling - in less than an hour, I'd made over 15 gold from that ore being on the broker.Also, relatively recently, I put together a spreadsheet that tracked how many recipes used a particular resource and how much of a particular resource was used.  You can download said spreadsheet/PDF from this thread if you're interested, as I'm going to be referencing it now: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=383821" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=383821</a> - please note, that it only includes Tier 3 resource usage at this time.Looking through the list, and at the statistics at the bottom, 40% of T3 recipes use ore while 34% of them use loam (as opposed to 95% requiring roots... er, what??? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />).  At first glance, this would seem to strengthen the argument that ore and loam should have an equal harvest ratio, but than why are the broker prices so out of whack?  Well, looking through the recipes that actually require loam, nearly all of them are jeweler/alchemist recipes for skill upgrades.  Looking at recipes that require ore, you see they're sprinkled through nearly every class, and that for some, notably armor and weaponsmiths, 4 or 5 ores are required per recipe, as opposed to 1 or 2 loams for other recipes.Additionally, thinking about those numbers some more, they seem to be even further out of whack.  The classes that use loam predominantly are also undeniably two of the easiest to level (scholars in general are, and yes before anyone asks I have both a 70 Alchemist and 70 Sage, with a low 50's Woodworker on the rise - so I can say without a doubt this is true).  Why?  Because you simply go through each tier, make your one-shot wonders (i.e. pristine every item), and almost always you'll have finished the tier.  If not... well with the new writs giving XP, it's still quite easy to power through.The predominantly metal using classes though, get the short end of the stick.  They have FAR fewer recipes, and consequently the one-shot wonders get them maybe 1/10th or 1/5th of the way through a level.  That means much more time needs to be spent grinding or doing writs (and this isn't a whine about that - I like the way the classes are laid out, but do think some need more lovin'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />) .  So when an armor or weaponsmith is doing a (rush order) writ for 6 items, they could be using between 18-30 carbonite and 0 loam.  When a jeweler or alchemist is doing their equivalent writ, they're using closer to 6-12 loam and 6-12 carbonite.In conclusion, I think the ratio needs to be tweaked to give much, much more ore than loam - and being a 2/3 scholar classes, I can say I never needed that much loam anyway.  I would say if it's at a 1:1 ratio right now (which is hard to believe, I'd say it's closer to 1.5:1 or 2:1 in favor of loam, and I also agree that on a successful harvest, I am far more likely to get multiple loams, and rarely do I seem to get more than 1 metal at a time), it needs to be closer to 3:1 in favor of ore - and the numbers above explain why.<ul><li>Ore is used in slightly more recipes, but for the classes that need to make more items to level.</li><li>More ore is required per recipe in general than loam (4 or 5 for the big users, as opposed to only ever needing 1 or 2 loams).</li><li>Loam is mostly used for one-shot wonders, and then occasionally for making skill upgrades.</li></ul>I would also like to state that making another node is a bad idea, in my opinion.  I don't see that solving the problem, as it'll be like the great shrub plague I see in nearly every zone (but usually in EL) - harvesters running for just the nodes they need, and bypassing nearly every shrub.  They're like darn weeds nobody wants to pull.  With the inclusion of rare roots it's slightly better, but not much.  So if we add in fungus, we'll see another set of similar nodes taking up space, which people will be reluctant to harvest.  Also, adding loam to fish nodes?  Looking at the chart, fish are needed in about 1% of the Tier 3 recipes (to be specific, 6 provisioner recipes).  With loam being needed in about 34%, the ratio would need to be something close to 10:1 in favor of loam to even be worthwhile - and that would just be dumb.Consequently, I think the best option is to tweak ore to be higher than loam, similar to what was done with pelts and meats.Edit: Smilies ruin my posts <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[zaneluke]

Ore is a time sink and a speed bump in an already silly easy task of leveling a tradeskiller.There are a couple secrets to leveling through a hard level like t-3 and t-6 when it comes to ore. Tradeskill during vitality only and do writs. If you tweek the ore vs loam drop rate you are going to be tweeking the rare loam drop rate too.

[Somniloquy]

<cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ore is a time sink and a speed bump in an already silly easy task of leveling a tradeskiller.There are a couple secrets to leveling through a hard level like t-3 and t-6 when it comes to ore. Tradeskill during vitality only and do writs. If you tweek the ore vs loam drop rate you are going to be tweeking the rare loam drop rate too.</blockquote>Agreed, the rare loam drop rate would change too.  At present it is far easier and cheaper to make Adept 3 for fighter and scout classes and the price disparity between that and priests or mages will bear that out.  Gems and soft metals are at least twice the price of loams and much harder to find.The metal crafters , weapons and armour get the slowest progression arts, the hardest to find raws and the least (or amongst the least) new recipes.  I know, say, provie only gets 4 recipes per level but provie canfill four bars faster (way faster) than a weapon or amoursmith can, its much easier to blast out blue rush orderswith provie (and woodworker) than anything else.And ts only in vitaility is just not always an option.  If you are wanting, say, a reverent set of armour for your shammy, you need to be ts level 39 when you ding 32 as adventurer, thats a lot of downtime.  Sure you could buy or wait for the armour but it is far better to make your own stuff and the reason many players ts in the first place.Ore collecting is frustrating at every tier, its the node players casually pick up when they come across one in case of a jackpot metal rare. T4 is the worst by far, sometimes EL is nothing but bushes and dens as carpet riding anons farm the roots and ores to extinction and Zek is erratic.   CoD is, as mentioned, a better bet but even so, the workload is double or triple that of any other harvesting activity.  Weapon and armoursmiths need roots and leather too, nothing comes close to the extra time sink and expense of these professions.If there is some reason why it should be harder to gear up a chain or plate wearer than cloth or leather then so be it.  But if there is no reason then some balancing needs to be done.Maybe split loam and ore totally, even them out, favour ore or...Keep the ratios the same and group the nodes like in TT.  Harvesting T7 is so simple, still a lot of work but at least you don't have to harvest a sackful of stuff you don't need.

[Mew]

I have to agree that the imbalance between loams and ores seems to be tier specific. The area where I see the biggest imbalance is in the tier 4 and tier 5 harvest areas - especially tier 5. I am not talking about rare harvests either. In the common harvests I am getting 6 to 7 common loams to 1 common ore. Some days its better and other days its worse but that is my average. I have not harvested an ebon cluster, personally, in over two months but I have gotten several rare loams (which has made my troubador alt very happy). In the tier 7 zones I have been getting close to 1:1 on loam vs ore. I haven't harvested any rares in weeks off of ore nodes. I got enough dragon hide to cover a leather class with armor twice over. I think I will find a carpenter and get some rugs and wall hangings made....

[nia]

    Ive kept a mental log of about how much ore to how much loam and for me it runs anywhere from 2:1 to 3:1.....The rares are about the same ratio.....The prices on my server reflect this also as almost every tier the ores sell around 50 silver per ore while the loams run a few copper even in the higher tiers.......Maybe in the long run tis a good thing as it keeps down the number of level 70 weapon and armor smiths simply because the ore is such a pain to get......It also doesnt help that so many level 70s are out there harvesting the crap out of the stuff ruining it for the lower level peeps who belong in the lower zones........

[zaneluke]

<cite>Somniloquy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ore is a time sink and a speed bump in an already silly easy task of leveling a tradeskiller.There are a couple secrets to leveling through a hard level like t-3 and t-6 when it comes to ore. Tradeskill during vitality only and do writs. If you tweek the ore vs loam drop rate you are going to be tweeking the rare loam drop rate too.</blockquote>Agreed, the rare loam drop rate would change too.  At present it is far easier and cheaper to make Adept 3 for fighter and scout classes and the price disparity between that and priests or mages will bear that out.  Gems and soft metals are at least twice the price of loams and much harder to find.The metal crafters , weapons and armour get the slowest progression arts, the hardest to find raws and the least (or amongst the least) new recipes.  I know, say, provie only gets 4 recipes per level but provie canfill four bars faster (way faster) than a weapon or amoursmith can, its much easier to blast out blue rush orderswith provie (and woodworker) than anything else.And ts only in vitaility is just not always an option.  If you are wanting, say, a reverent set of armour for your shammy, you need to be ts level 39 when you ding 32 as adventurer, thats a lot of downtime.  Sure you could buy or wait for the armour but it is far better to make your own stuff and the reason many players ts in the first place.Ore collecting is frustrating at every tier, its the node players casually pick up when they come across one in case of a jackpot metal rare. T4 is the worst by far, sometimes EL is nothing but bushes and dens as carpet riding anons farm the roots and ores to extinction and Zek is erratic.   CoD is, as mentioned, a better bet but even so, the workload is double or triple that of any other harvesting activity.  Weapon and armoursmiths need roots and leather too, nothing comes close to the extra time sink and expense of these professions.If there is some reason why it should be harder to gear up a chain or plate wearer than cloth or leather then so be it.  But if there is no reason then some balancing needs to be done.Maybe split loam and ore totally, even them out, favour ore or...Keep the ratios the same and group the nodes like in TT.  Harvesting T7 is so simple, still a lot of work but at least you don't have to harvest a sackful of stuff you don't need.</blockquote>I have never worn a crafted set of armor on any of my toons. But then again i have not had a tank, just mystic and warlock. If T-4 is an issue i would log in early sunday am and start at the docks in EL, work in a clockwise fashion along coast to the farm, clear everything and then go back. Make sure you have a harvesting macro and all the best harvesting tools for you abilities. When you are done there do the same in Zek. Move over to the tree area then lumbermill, then outside the mine. Go ver near the second mill next then repeat. Move back to el and do it again. I have an alchesit,provie and a carpenter. some of the levels were painfull, T-6 just flat out sucked.

[zaneluke]

<cite>niack wrote:</cite><blockquote>    It also doesnt help that so many level 70s are out there harvesting the crap out of the stuff ruining it for the lower level peeps who belong in the lower zones........</blockquote>Seriously now. Get your toon to 70. Then you can harvest where you want when you want. I harvest lower lev area for my low levl crafters. Toons "belong" were ever they can go.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>niack wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also doesnt help that so many level 70s are out there harvesting the crap out of the stuff ruining it for the lower level peeps who belong in the lower zones........</blockquote>why would i not use one of my 70 toons to harvest? no matter what lvl the crafting alt is? sorry... but i'm going to harvest with my 70 toons... better harvesting tools, run speed buff (atleast on the trouby), 6 boxes for max inventory space.... you get the idea... no point in rolling another adventuring alt just to harvest for lowbie crafting alts.

[SugarGirl]

<p>I think they don't need to mess with the ration nearly so much as maybe changing the odds of a particular node spawning are maybe upping the spawn timer of ore nodes so that they are refreshing faster. I generally come back from harvesting sessions with hundreds and hundreds of pelts and wood in my bag for every 100 ores I mine. This is just due to the fact that there seems to always be a ton of dens, trees and shrubs spawning and not a lot of ore.</p>

[Harvash]

<p>Never seems that these kind of threads get much attention, sad really.  Looks like a few people have chimed in with their experiences and they are similar for all.  Notwithstanding all that, I also see some REALLY good ideas to address it.  </p><p>Are we getting the standard, Working As Intended shuffle? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Condar Tarsonia]

I'm sure we'll get the "working as intended" response, at least for now, because it IS working as intended - most of us just don't like how it's working <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  I have faith in Domino though - after reading her dev journal, she definitely has a lot of work on her hands finishing up RoK due to be released in little over a month now, and whatever she has planned for GU39 (I believe carpenters were getting more new items?).  I am sure she has a whole list of to-do and to-look-at items when that gets taken care of, so I doubt we'll see too many changes unless it's really critical.  I agree though, I really hope this does get some major consideration, and I also agree there are some good proposed solutions.

[Anordil]

O my stars and garters. Feyiron is my bête noir. I've spent the last two days out harvesting in the Enchanted Lands and wound up destroying three stacks of loam (or as my guild armorer calls it - <i>The Anti-Ore</i> or <i>evil, evil loam</i>) and had only one and a third stacks of feyiron. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />

[Ranja]

One need only look at the price of ore at each tier to see that the ore:laom ratio is out of whack. In every tier, Ore is the only (on my server) raw that is going for 15s-20s. Every other raw is going for 2c. Yes that is copper. So ore is 150x more expensive than every single other raw in every tier. As other posters have pointed out, a 1:1 ratio is not good enough. I even doubt that is the ratio since in all my harvesting I have always gotten more loam than ore. Somthing like 1.5-2 loam to 1 ore is usally what it works out to be. I gave up on my armorer since it was so frustrating trying to get the ore needed to level and buying it was not an option since nothing we make sells (normal crafted anyways).

[Naughtesn]

The ratio certainly seems out of whack sometimes - I'm speaking to T4 specifically.Last 2 days: <p><span style="color: #ffffff;">Date<span>                            </span>Type<span>           </span>Yield<span>            </span>Harvests<span>    </span>Rares</span></p> <p><span style="color: #ffffff;">15-Oct<span>                        </span>Ore<span>              </span>300<span>              </span>143<span>               </span>2</span></p> <p><span style="color: #ffffff;">15-Oct<span>                        </span>Loam<span>          </span>298<span>              </span>146<span>               </span>7</span></p> <p><span style="color: #ffffff;">16-Oct<span>                        </span>Ore<span>              </span>254<span>              </span>146<span>               </span>2</span></p> <p><span style="color: #ffffff;">16-Oct<span>                        </span>Loam<span>          </span>350<span>              </span>179<span>               </span>4</span></p> So yesterday, the ratio was pretty even (except for rares - I got 3 10 common loam rares and 1 10 common ore rare).But this morning it absolutely sucked ore wise - RNG I guess.Rares 11-4 - loam winning over the 2 days.  (Boo for my Weaponsmith!)I would like to see the ore common rate bumped a bit for all the reasons noted earlier in this thread - but specifically more classes use greater volumes of the ore. The ratio could stand a tweaking similar to the Den nodes - not as severe. but something.

[Naughtesn]

BLEH DBL POST

[Lortet]

<p>Having a run so bad atm that I felt like pulling this thread back up.</p><p>Didn't keep the number of nodes, buit the results of the harvesting</p><p>CoD (T4) - 143 Feyiron, 2 feysteel, 1 rare loam, 440 plain loam!</p><p>TS (T3) currently 47 carbonite, 0 steel, 2 malleable loam and 270 pliant loam. </p><p>With malleable loam on the broker atm for 1 - 1.5 gold, the loam worthless and the ore for 20+ silver I really don't think it is just me either.</p>

[Goemoe]

<cite>LibraTari wrote:</cite><blockquote>If anything it should be 1:1 but in reality should be 3 (ore) : 1 (loam) and I don't thinking tinkerers should be the excuse in which not to change it. Almost all tradeskillers use ore (except provisioner) but some do not even touch the loam. </blockquote>/signedLoam has been a bad idea over all. Before loam got in we had the fungi standing around useless to most (as now are bushes - no one cares for rare roots). The rate ore : loam should be 3:1 with loam rares even more common as they are now. This way the fighters get their rares and the crafters get their ore. And yes, the brokers are always a good indication which raws are unbalanced. Hopefully T8 will shine new light on harvesting...

[rareyrare]

<p>I've noticed this problem a lot as well. I came to the forums to post a bit of a whine about this subject, but found this thread first.  I too consistently get at least 25% more loams, but more often than not it's more like 200%. I understand the problem with the rare loams being needed far more than the rare metals, here's my solution....</p><p>1. Increase the drop rate of the ores to 2-1 vs loams (possibly even greater).</p><p>2. Make any of the current spell rares usable for all adept 3's.</p><p>or option 3:</p><p>See option 2 and get rid of loams all together.</p><p>Anyway, that's my 2 cents.</p><p>There's a lot of good ideas in this post and I hope that by reviving it, matbe we can get some dev attention.</p>

[blithe]

I probably spent about 3p just on feyiron clusters when going forom lvl30-40 on my woodworker. I tried harvesting for it in EL but waaaay too much time trying to get enough feyiron. isn't it ironic that WOODWORKERS would need so much METAL for crafting and writs? It was very frustrating. On Butcherblock, feyiron is currently 1g each cluster. OUTRAGEOUS! how are casual gamers supposed to level up their crafters if they have to go out harvesting for 2 days straight just to get 70 clusters. and 70 clusters can be gone in 1 hour when grinding a WOODWORKER. now i am in the same boat with fulginate, heh.

[Rqron]

<cite>blithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I probably spent about 3p just on feyiron clusters when going forom lvl30-40 on my woodworker. I tried harvesting for it in EL but waaaay too much time trying to get enough feyiron. isn't it ironic that WOODWORKERS would need so much METAL for crafting and writs? It was very frustrating. On Butcherblock, feyiron is currently 1g each cluster. OUTRAGEOUS! how are casual gamers supposed to level up their crafters if they have to go out harvesting for 2 days straight just to get 70 clusters. and 70 clusters can be gone in 1 hour when grinding a WOODWORKER. now i am in the same boat with fulginate, heh. </blockquote><p>And yet, Harvesting 4 hours last night (actually this morning:=)) in EL I had 365 feyiron, 430 loams, 12 feysteel, 8 rare loams, 665 roots and 12 oak roots....its not really too bad. When I did a /who there where 3 people in the whole zone. I believe it just depends when you harvest and how many people are on. I love to harvest either late (2pm eastern) Friday or Saturday night or early (6am eastern) Sunday morning because not many people are out there harvesting and as such the nodes are all spawned. Having to compeete during main game hours and peak times is always resulting in a low harvesting rate</p><p>J.C.</p>

[Moongloom]

They could also change what rare is needed for fighter adept 3's.  Make it the rare roots.  Which makes sense with alchemy making their adept3's and also would make a higher demand for the rare root in the first place.

[Lilj]

Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.

[Freydinessa]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.

[Rqron]

<cite>Mirtai@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.</blockquote>Well, actually why do you want to set it to a 50/50 chance? More loams are used then ore so there should more loams drop then there are ore drops. And a lot of what I have seen here is that people don't really complain about the ratio but about the amount of particular nodes. And from my personal experience from harvesting ""a lot"" at odd hours there is a HUGE difference in what nodes are available during hours where a large percentage of people harvest in comparison to times where there are hardly any people harvest. To fix this, the spawn times, number, and types of nodes would need to be linked to the amount of players harvesting at any given moment in that perticular zone and that I.M.H.O. is impossible to do.But I agree, old treads like this NEED to come up every few month and be it only to toss ideas around..who knows, someone new to this forums maybe get the ""bright right idea" and it leads to a fix of the problem.J.C.

[Synexis]

Hi!My name is Synexis and I am an ore addict. Sadly, this has lead me to hate loam with a passion. I have been harvesting in EL for a few weeks now and been keeping rough track of my findings. I will spare you all the details and just summarize:1. The ore to loam ratio does seem to be about 2:1 in favor of loam. Of course, in short term harvesting, this varies. Nonetheless, I am not sure I have ever once come out of a harvesting expedition with more ore than loam. I have, more than once, come out with 3:1 or even 4:1 ration in favor of loam. The bottom line here is that anyone who comes out close to 50/50 in a given harvesting did VERY well.2. The demand for ore is, far and away, the single greatest demand of any common harvestable. The broker supports this conclusion as the price for ore is exponentially greater than for any other common material (as of T5, which is my current TS level). This does not mean that ore is the rarest harvest, of course, it just means that there is more demand for ore than for any other material. 3. As many people in this thread have already pointed out, ore is used is a huge number of TS professions. This is, no doubt, a major factor for the high demand of ore. Roots, which are also used in a huge number of TS professions, are often far less expensive to buy than ore. Most likely because their supply is a lot greater. I can get 3 or more full stacks of roots in the same time it takes me to get 1 stack of ore. In summary, I think that the direction that the Devs should be looking towards is not necessarily making adjustments to the loam/ore ratio, but instead reduce the number of units of ore required by TS recipes outside of armorer and weaponsmith.Furthermore, I would like to see more TS professions have more diversity in raw material inputs. Have you ever stepped into your favorite harvesting spot and seen a sea of wood and bush nodes? I know I have. You can buy thousands of wood and provisioner materials on the broker for 1 copper. There is simply way more supply than demand for wood. One remedy for this is to increase the need for raw material inputs. If more people start needing more wood and jewels for their combines, demand will start moving closer to the supply. Yay for equilibrium! Let's give people a reason to want to harvest wood nodes! o/EQ2 has the best TS system I have ever seen. I absolutely love it. Nonetheless, a few more improvements won't hurt! 

[Frijoles]

<p>My experience falls in line with a lot of what I'm reading here: loam/ore ratios for my harvesters (nine of them, in tiers one through five) is, on average, 2:1, in favor of loam harvests. Some days it's easily 3:1 but then on very rare occasions I walk away with more ore than loam.</p><p>The disparity between ore and loam harvests does bother me sometimes but not overly much because I have two tinkerers - so the loams will (eventually - when I find the time =P ) get put to good use.</p>

[cdxrd]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>blithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I probably spent about 3p just on feyiron clusters when going forom lvl30-40 on my woodworker. I tried harvesting for it in EL but waaaay too much time trying to get enough feyiron. isn't it ironic that WOODWORKERS would need so much METAL for crafting and writs? It was very frustrating. On Butcherblock, feyiron is currently 1g each cluster. OUTRAGEOUS! how are casual gamers supposed to level up their crafters if they have to go out harvesting for 2 days straight just to get 70 clusters. and 70 clusters can be gone in 1 hour when grinding a WOODWORKER. now i am in the same boat with fulginate, heh. </blockquote><p>And yet, Harvesting 4 hours last night (actually this morning:=)) in EL I had 365 feyiron, 430 loams, 12 feysteel, 8 rare loams, 665 roots and 12 oak roots....its not really too bad. When I did a /who there where 3 people in the whole zone. I believe it just depends when you harvest and how many people are on. I love to harvest either late (2pm eastern) Friday or Saturday night or early (6am eastern) Sunday morning because not many people are out there harvesting and as such the nodes are all spawned. Having to compeete during main game hours and peak times is always resulting in a low harvesting rate</p><p>J.C.</p></blockquote>Of prey tell me your on kithico and your gonna be nice and put those feyiron on the broker for oh, even 30s would be nice. Feyiron must be rare, since its always 1g or higher... and even when i go out harvesting zek and EL, last time I ended up with 180 ore to 320'ish loams.. =(

[greenmantle]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote><p>Yes and hoplefully comment from the community keeping the issue active will provide support for Domino to do some thing about it. I am sure there are a dozen people all wanting her to tweak or create things to go with projects they are working on. That this is an ongoing problem for the crafting comunity might enable her to list it as a higher priority than if no one seemed to care. </p><p>Sadly at the moment loam is just the dross you have to dig through to get to the things you need, you cant sell it or give it away. I destroyed 5 x 200 stacks the other night and that is with both a jeweler and sage to keep supplied.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[tillerman35]

I don't have an issue with ore/loam ratio.  I see loam, ore, and non-rare gemstone raws on the broker for 2cp all the time (Guk server) depending on the tier.  It's a mature game.  A T2 rare is just as valuable as a T6 rare to the T7 character that goes out to harvest grey zones. 

[Ranja]

Yes this is an issue. It always has been and it will never be fixed. This is why I shelved my armorer (besides the fact that they are boring). I spent more time harvesting for ore than I did crafting. On Everfrost, every raw in every tier is going for coppers EXCEPT ore. Ore in every tier is 30-50 silver. [Removed for Content], in t2 ore is 30s.Just look at the market nad you can see that the demand way out ways the supply.They really [Removed for Content] up when they made scouts and fighters use the same rare for ad3 when everyone else has their own.

[Signal9]

<cite>tillerman35 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't have an issue with ore/loam ratio.  I see loam, ore, and non-rare gemstone raws on the broker for 2cp all the time (Guk server) depending on the tier.  It's a mature game.  A T2 rare is just as valuable as a T6 rare to the T7 character that goes out to harvest grey zones.  </blockquote><p>Depending on the tier.  Ok, let's leave the T8 areas where 90% of the game is currently harvesting.</p><p>Try T5.  EF/LS.  Ore - 45s-1.2g each.  roots - 30-80s each.</p><p>Try T6  DoF Ore 20-80s each, roots 60s-2g each.</p><p>Slight difference, wot?</p><p>Now, you can get out and get the things you need, but it takes much more time than any other tier.  I harvested DoF the other night, and got 300 roots, and about 150 ore.  This took 4 hours.  Strip mining, not cherry picking.</p><p>There seem to be plenty of ore nodes, but even with an epic'd harvester I'm getting 3:1 loams.  The ratio is still off.  Granted, tinkerers will use some loams, however, ore is used by WW, WS, Carp, Tailor, and not in small quantities.  Some T8 recipies can use up to 5 ore each.</p>

[rareyrare]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirtai@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.</blockquote>Well, actually why do you want to set it to a 50/50 chance? <span style="color: #ffff00;">More loams are used then ore so there should more loams drop then there are ore drops.</span> And a lot of what I have seen here is that people don't really complain about the ratio but about the amount of particular nodes. And from my personal experience from harvesting ""a lot"" at odd hours there is a HUGE difference in what nodes are available during hours where a large percentage of people harvest in comparison to times where there are hardly any people harvest. To fix this, the spawn times, number, and types of nodes would need to be linked to the amount of players harvesting at any given moment in that perticular zone and that I.M.H.O. is impossible to do.But I agree, old treads like this NEED to come up every few month and be it only to toss ideas around..who knows, someone new to this forums maybe get the ""bright right idea" and it leads to a fix of the problem.J.C.</blockquote>Did you just confuse the two, or do you really think loams are needed more in crafting? As far as I'm aware, there are only 2 TS classes that use more loam than hard metals: Alchies (just barely) and of course tinkerers.... These two classes do nothing in regards to balancing out current prices of hard metals and loams. All you have to do is compare prices on the broker to see this to be true.

[Rqron]

<cite>cdxrd wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>blithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I probably spent about 3p just on feyiron clusters when going forom lvl30-40 on my woodworker. I tried harvesting for it in EL but waaaay too much time trying to get enough feyiron. isn't it ironic that WOODWORKERS would need so much METAL for crafting and writs? It was very frustrating. On Butcherblock, feyiron is currently 1g each cluster. OUTRAGEOUS! how are casual gamers supposed to level up their crafters if they have to go out harvesting for 2 days straight just to get 70 clusters. and 70 clusters can be gone in 1 hour when grinding a WOODWORKER. now i am in the same boat with fulginate, heh. </blockquote><p>And yet, Harvesting 4 hours last night (actually this morning:=)) in EL I had 365 feyiron, 430 loams, 12 feysteel, 8 rare loams, 665 roots and 12 oak roots....its not really too bad. When I did a /who there where 3 people in the whole zone. I believe it just depends when you harvest and how many people are on. I love to harvest either late (2pm eastern) Friday or Saturday night or early (6am eastern) Sunday morning because not many people are out there harvesting and as such the nodes are all spawned. Having to compeete during main game hours and peak times is always resulting in a low harvesting rate</p><p>J.C.</p></blockquote>Of prey tell me your on kithico and your gonna be nice and put those feyiron on the broker for oh, even 30s would be nice. Feyiron must be rare, since its always 1g or higher... and even when i go out harvesting zek and EL, last time I ended up with 180 ore to 320'ish loams.. =(</blockquote>Nope, as you can see i am on LdL but yes I very rarely put Feyiron on the market at more then 20-25S a piece (and always at about 50% of the next highest if it is priced below that so if the lowest on the market is 20S I will price it at 10 ) and I don't care if the next one up is one gold or 5 gold...in my eyes everything above 25S is greed pure and simple. And as I do not need to make piles of coin for my play style I don't care that I "lost" money ..because in my mind..nope I still made a profit and when I come back to the broker 10 minutes later they are all gone :=)). And it is actually extreem rare that I see someone buying them and then reselling them at a higher price. I mostly harvest during the week and if I have the spaceto store them I put them on the broker on the weekend ..not because the prices are higher but because I know more people are crafting so I put them on during the Friday evening in several batches about an hour or so apart.J.C.

[Rashaak]

<p>Easiest way to get your raw's for free and not harvest:</p><p>1) Have a friend who has past the tier level you are at send you his/her left overs</p><p>2) Have players who want items bring you all the materials</p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have done this the past few tiers with my Jeweler. I will agree to make someone all their skill-ups (App 4) for free for the entire tier (i.e. 70-80) if they in turn send me any raw materials they can afford to give up. I have 3 players doing this currently and in the past week, my Jeweler has amassed(sp?):</p><p>4400 ferrite, 6000 loam, 3600 Kunzite, 3200 Deklium, 4000 Roots, 2000 Pelts.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have all the advanced skills through lvl 80, but still have 5 more levels to go before I max my Jeweler out. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  9 times out of 10 they end up coming to me to make their Adept 3's eventually <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>too bad I can't get my WS this type of business.... *sigh*  </p>

[Rqron]

<cite>Couy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirtai@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.</blockquote>Well, actually why do you want to set it to a 50/50 chance? <span style="color: #ffff00;">More loams are used then ore so there should more loams drop then there are ore drops.</span> And a lot of what I have seen here is that people don't really complain about the ratio but about the amount of particular nodes. And from my personal experience from harvesting ""a lot"" at odd hours there is a HUGE difference in what nodes are available during hours where a large percentage of people harvest in comparison to times where there are hardly any people harvest. To fix this, the spawn times, number, and types of nodes would need to be linked to the amount of players harvesting at any given moment in that perticular zone and that I.M.H.O. is impossible to do.But I agree, old treads like this NEED to come up every few month and be it only to toss ideas around..who knows, someone new to this forums maybe get the ""bright right idea" and it leads to a fix of the problem.J.C.</blockquote>Did you just confuse the two, or do you really think loams are needed more in crafting? As far as I'm aware, there are only 2 TS classes that use more loam than hard metals: Alchies (just barely) and of course tinkerers.... These two classes do nothing in regards to balancing out current prices of hard metals and loams. All you have to do is compare prices on the broker to see this to be true.</blockquote>You forget that the Jeweler needs quite a large amount of loam to do spells so you have 3 classes using loam more then others. Alchemist ,  Jeweler, and Tinkerer..and of course some of the others to some extent or another use loams also. So yes, I do believe that loams are the second most used raw just after roots. But I also think, that there are less alchemists and jewelers out there then others. Alchemists use loams and soft metals and only rarely hard metals and for sure a lot more loams then metals. Jeweler need loams in every spell they make and do not use muck hard metal besides some totems..mostly like alchemist they are using a majority of soft metals and ..hey look at the price of those..they are coppers on the market..J.C.

[44Dragon]

<p>I always get more loam than ore.  As a woodworker I need the ore, and speding the plat it would take me to purchase stacks of it from the broker doesn't sit well with me.  I'm also a maxed out harvester, stripping T5 zones at the moment for harvests because I get bored to death with tradeskills (so they fall well behind my adventure levels).  Mostly it is the hours of harvesting needed to spend one hour making my shields, wands, staves, and bows.</p><p>Then again, As a Ranger I cry like a little baby while trying to get my rare Silicate Loam to pop.  I guess I want my cake (ore) and I want to eat it too (rare loams).</p>

[Rashaak]

<p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Crafts that use loam:</span></p><p>Weaponsmith (t<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> for Whetstones</p><p>Jewelers (t1-<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> for scout spells</p><p>Alchemists (t1-<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Provisioners (t1-<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Tinkerers</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">and thats it, now Crafts that use ore:</span></p><p>Weaponsmith (t1-8 )</p><p>Armorsmiths (t1-8 )</p><p>Jeweler (t1-8 )</p><p>Carpenter (t1-8 )</p><p>Tinkerers</p><p>Tailors (t4) ~ blood ore</p><p>Woodworkers (t1-8 )</p><p>In all it's about even...although Provis don't use loam in too many of their recipes, and Tailorer's only use the blood ore to make GI's and such...</p><p>So, loam to ore ratio SHOULD be a 50/50 IMO or 60/40 in favor of ore <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Vith]

The loams are all classes that can level on first pristine bonus making spells/CAs (or making food stacks for Provies, who don't really use a lot of loam anyway).<div></div><div>Really the people that need love are armorers. Reduce the darn metal requirements for armor and things should be much better. Armorers don't get a lot of recipes per level to get first pristine bonuses, so we have to grind writs. With 6-7 metal per combine, it adds up fast. I just spent the last two evenings harvesting for enough metal to do hopefully an hour of writs, probably much less. 2 stacks of 200 in about 5 hours of harvesting in Feerrott, got about 500 loam. </div><div></div><div>Problem isn't the drop rate, problem is that I'll use up the 400 metal in less than an hour and just toss the loam on the vendor for a few cp because I already have about 2000 loam in the bank because all the rest of my crafters combined won't use it all up (I have one of each crafter in the same tier as my armorer).</div>

[rareyrare]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirtai@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.</blockquote>Well, actually why do you want to set it to a 50/50 chance? <span style="color: #ffff00;">More loams are used then ore so there should more loams drop then there are ore drops.</span> And a lot of what I have seen here is that people don't really complain about the ratio but about the amount of particular nodes. And from my personal experience from harvesting ""a lot"" at odd hours there is a HUGE difference in what nodes are available during hours where a large percentage of people harvest in comparison to times where there are hardly any people harvest. To fix this, the spawn times, number, and types of nodes would need to be linked to the amount of players harvesting at any given moment in that perticular zone and that I.M.H.O. is impossible to do.But I agree, old treads like this NEED to come up every few month and be it only to toss ideas around..who knows, someone new to this forums maybe get the ""bright right idea" and it leads to a fix of the problem.J.C.</blockquote>Did you just confuse the two, or do you really think loams are needed more in crafting? As far as I'm aware, there are only 2 TS classes that use more loam than hard metals: Alchies (just barely) and of course tinkerers.... These two classes do nothing in regards to balancing out current prices of hard metals and loams. All you have to do is compare prices on the broker to see this to be true.</blockquote>You forget that the Jeweler needs quite a large amount of loam to do spells so you have 3 classes using loam more then others. Alchemist ,  Jeweler, and Tinkerer..and of course some of the others to some extent or another use loams also. So yes, I do believe that loams are the second most used raw just after roots. But I also think, that there are less alchemists and jewelers out there then others. Alchemists use loams and soft metals and only rarely hard metals and for sure a lot more loams then metals. Jeweler need loams in every spell they make and do not use muck hard metal besides some totems..mostly like alchemist they are using a majority of soft metals and ..hey look at the price of those..they are coppers on the market..J.C.</blockquote><p>  Jewelers do NOT use more loam than hard metals.... not even close. They do require loams for spells, but in t6 for example my jeweler uses ONE loam and THREE hard metals. Throw in jewelry where loams are not used at all and you're looking at a use ratio of at least 4 hard metals to 1 loam.</p><p>  My Alchemist is only level 30, so I can't say for the recipes after t4, but in t4 I'm using 2 loams for every 1 hard metal. Not nearly as staggering a number is it? </p><p>  When you take into account weaponsmiths and armorers using 6-8 hard metals and NO loams, then you start to see the GROSS need for a MUCH higher hard metal to loam ratio.</p><p>  And to the person who said this issue should not be dredged up, I say, I refuse to let it die. IMO the current situation is exremely unbalanced and needs <i>immediate</i> attention.</p>

[Rqron]

<cite>Couy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirtai@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Domino is very aware of these issues, she has talked about them earlier. There is no obvious and easy solution, so it will take some time.Please have patience and stop reviving 4-5 months old threads *evil grin*.But honestly, she knows about it. Patience.</blockquote>lol, that's terrible Liljna. It's good to keep this alive, obviously many are concerned about the ratio, so it's good to have it alive to have them know that domino knows about the situation.Honestly, though, i'm not too sure about the imbalance. I have found a similar situation to the opening poster (OP) but i've found that as my level of skill increases for that harvestable range, the ratio balances out quite well. In fact i've had a couple of time where i've collected more ore than loam.But, from the limited posts i've read. if it's not set to a ratio of 50% chance of each it really should be.</blockquote>Well, actually why do you want to set it to a 50/50 chance? <span style="color: #ffff00;">More loams are used then ore so there should more loams drop then there are ore drops.</span> And a lot of what I have seen here is that people don't really complain about the ratio but about the amount of particular nodes. And from my personal experience from harvesting ""a lot"" at odd hours there is a HUGE difference in what nodes are available during hours where a large percentage of people harvest in comparison to times where there are hardly any people harvest. To fix this, the spawn times, number, and types of nodes would need to be linked to the amount of players harvesting at any given moment in that perticular zone and that I.M.H.O. is impossible to do.But I agree, old treads like this NEED to come up every few month and be it only to toss ideas around..who knows, someone new to this forums maybe get the ""bright right idea" and it leads to a fix of the problem.J.C.</blockquote>Did you just confuse the two, or do you really think loams are needed more in crafting? As far as I'm aware, there are only 2 TS classes that use more loam than hard metals: Alchies (just barely) and of course tinkerers.... These two classes do nothing in regards to balancing out current prices of hard metals and loams. All you have to do is compare prices on the broker to see this to be true.</blockquote>You forget that the Jeweler needs quite a large amount of loam to do spells so you have 3 classes using loam more then others. Alchemist ,  Jeweler, and Tinkerer..and of course some of the others to some extent or another use loams also. So yes, I do believe that loams are the second most used raw just after roots. But I also think, that there are less alchemists and jewelers out there then others. Alchemists use loams and soft metals and only rarely hard metals and for sure a lot more loams then metals. Jeweler need loams in every spell they make and do not use muck hard metal besides some totems..mostly like alchemist they are using a majority of soft metals and ..hey look at the price of those..they are coppers on the market..J.C.</blockquote><p>  Jewelers do NOT use more loam than hard metals.... not even close. They do require loams for spells, but in t6 for example my jeweler uses ONE loam and THREE hard metals. Throw in jewelry where loams are not used at all and you're looking at a use ratio of at least 4 hard metals to 1 loam.</p><p>  My Alchemist is only level 30, so I can't say for the recipes after t4, but in t4 I'm using 2 loams for every 1 hard metal. Not nearly as staggering a number is it? </p><p>  When you take into account weaponsmiths and armorers using 6-8 hard metals and NO loams, then you start to see the GROSS need for a MUCH higher hard metal to loam ratio.</p><p>  And to the person who said this issue should not be dredged up, I say, I refuse to let it die. IMO the current situation is exremely unbalanced and needs <i>immediate</i> attention.</p></blockquote>I am still thinking you are confusing the different ores. Jeweler and alchemist are using soft metal from soft metal nodes not hard metal from ore nodes. Ore as from the rock that gives us loam and hard metals is expensive. Most soft metals as from nodes that give us soft metals and gems are so cheap you find pages upon pages for 1copper on the broker. Soft metals is NOT what we are talking about here we are talking about the ratio of loams to hard metals as harvested from the ore. Jewelers and alchemist mostly use dirt cheap soft metals and only a few recipes on the jeweler side do use a majority of hard metals such as certain totems. Otherwise, the hart metal use of both jeweler and Alchemist is minimal.J.C.

[Rashaak]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>I am still thinking you are confusing the different ores. Jeweler and alchemist are using soft metal from soft metal nodes not hard metal from ore nodes</b>. Ore as from the rock that gives us loam and hard metals is expensive. Most soft metals as from nodes that give us soft metals and gems are so cheap you find pages upon pages for 1copper on the broker. Soft metals is NOT what we are talking about here we are talking about the ratio of loams to hard metals as harvested from the ore. Jewelers and alchemist mostly use dirt cheap soft metals and only a few recipes on the jeweler side do use a majority of hard metals such as certain totems. Otherwise, the hart metal use of both jeweler and Alchemist is minimal.J.C.</blockquote><p>This is a big negative here ghostrider! Pattern is full.   <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Jewelers use all harvests aside from Provi stuffs.</p><p>On almost every combine a Jeweler will consume: Root, Ore, AND Soft Metal.  There is also main component use of Ore for certain items such as (we'll use tier 3) <a href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/recipes/show_recipe.php?recipe=4352" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Carbonite Tablets</a>. They also use root to make certain items such as <a href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=22479&menustr=080020160000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">scarfs</a>. Also leather pelts for belts and for tomes as well. Loams for CA's. </p><p>So...I think your the one confused there bubba. Jewelers use a huge array of materials in crafting. Leather, Ore, Soft Metals (its about a 65/35 ratio in favor of Deklium though), Roots, and Loam.</p><p>Materials not used: Wood, Meats, Fruits, and Fish.</p><p>Enjoy</p>

[Rqron]

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>I am still thinking you are confusing the different ores. Jeweler and alchemist are using soft metal from soft metal nodes not hard metal from ore nodes</b>. Ore as from the rock that gives us loam and hard metals is expensive. Most soft metals as from nodes that give us soft metals and gems are so cheap you find pages upon pages for 1copper on the broker. Soft metals is NOT what we are talking about here we are talking about the ratio of loams to hard metals as harvested from the ore. Jewelers and alchemist mostly use dirt cheap soft metals and only a few recipes on the jeweler side do use a majority of hard metals such as certain totems. Otherwise, the hart metal use of both jeweler and Alchemist is minimal.J.C.</blockquote><p>This is a big negative here ghostrider! Pattern is full.   <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Jewelers use all harvests aside from Provi stuffs.</p><p>On almost every combine a Jeweler will consume: Root, Ore, AND Soft Metal.  There is also main component use of Ore for certain items such as (we'll use tier 3) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/recipes/show_recipe.php?recipe=4352" target="_blank">Carbonite Tablets</a>. They also use root to make certain items such as <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=22479&menustr=080020160000" target="_blank">scarfs</a>. Also leather pelts for belts and for tomes as well. Loams for CA's. </p><p>So...I think your the one confused there bubba. Jewelers use a huge array of materials in crafting. Leather, Ore, Soft Metals (its about a 65/35 ratio in favor of Deklium though), Roots, and Loam.</p><p>Materials not used: Wood, Meats, Fruits, and Fish.</p><p>Enjoy</p></blockquote>Well, it appears, you do NOT read all and comprehend what I wrote before. There was NEVER any denial from anyone that jeweler do NOT use leather or roots that never was an issue. Moreover, I clearly stated that there are some recipes that use a lot of hard ore..but those are only a few every tier and NOT the majority. The fact still is that a jeweler will consume more soft metals and loams by quite a margin then hard metals. I have a jeweler myself and know what materials I harvest for him and in what ratio. I believe you are here on a self serving crusade that really does not help anyone. Many people see nothing wrong with the ratio of ore and loam and I don't either..I use it and what I don't use I sell. A simple concept. I never had ANY problems with any of my character harvesting the materials needed. Of course for people that don't like harvesting or that believe that there should not be any time or effort involved yeah the ratio stinks they probably would love to see separate loam and ore nodes. As you have stated before that there is really nothing that anyone can do to show you how how far off base you are I will make this my last post to you and go on playing the game and harvest the raws I need..craft the items I have on commission and laugh all the way to the bank meanwhile, you can stay on this board, continue your crusade and ....go nowhere.J.C.

[Signal9]

<p>As far as which is used more, ore or loam, simply look at the prices/quantities on the market.  In all tiers, loam is 2c each, and ore is 10+ silver each. T1/T2 may be exceptions, but T4 and up ther eis little/no ore on the market, or outrageously priced, Billllllions, and Billlllions of loam, at the price of, well, dirt.</p><p>So, empirical evidence indicates an imbalance.</p>

[rareyrare]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>I am still thinking you are confusing the different ores. Jeweler and alchemist are using soft metal from soft metal nodes not hard metal from ore nodes</b>. Ore as from the rock that gives us loam and hard metals is expensive. Most soft metals as from nodes that give us soft metals and gems are so cheap you find pages upon pages for 1copper on the broker. Soft metals is NOT what we are talking about here we are talking about the ratio of loams to hard metals as harvested from the ore. Jewelers and alchemist mostly use dirt cheap soft metals and only a few recipes on the jeweler side do use a majority of hard metals such as certain totems. Otherwise, the hart metal use of both jeweler and Alchemist is minimal.J.C.</blockquote><p>This is a big negative here ghostrider! Pattern is full.   <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Jewelers use all harvests aside from Provi stuffs.</p><p>On almost every combine a Jeweler will consume: Root, Ore, AND Soft Metal.  There is also main component use of Ore for certain items such as (we'll use tier 3) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/recipes/show_recipe.php?recipe=4352" target="_blank">Carbonite Tablets</a>. They also use root to make certain items such as <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=22479&menustr=080020160000" target="_blank">scarfs</a>. Also leather pelts for belts and for tomes as well. Loams for CA's. </p><p>So...I think your the one confused there bubba. Jewelers use a huge array of materials in crafting. Leather, Ore, Soft Metals (its about a 65/35 ratio in favor of Deklium though), Roots, and Loam.</p><p>Materials not used: Wood, Meats, Fruits, and Fish.</p><p>Enjoy</p></blockquote>Well, it appears, you do NOT read all and comprehend what I wrote before. There was NEVER any denial from anyone that jeweler do NOT use leather or roots that never was an issue. Moreover, I clearly stated that there are some recipes that use a lot of hard ore..but those are only a few every tier and NOT the majority. The fact still is that a jeweler will consume more soft metals and loams by quite a margin then hard metals. I have a jeweler myself and know what materials I harvest for him and in what ratio. I believe you are here on a self serving crusade that really does not help anyone. Many people see nothing wrong with the ratio of ore and loam and I don't either..I use it and what I don't use I sell. A simple concept. I never had ANY problems with any of my character harvesting the materials needed. Of course for people that don't like harvesting or that believe that there should not be any time or effort involved yeah the ratio stinks they probably would love to see separate loam and ore nodes. As you have stated before that there is really nothing that anyone can do to show you how how far off base you are I will make this my last post to you and go on playing the game and harvest the raws I need..craft the items I have on commission and laugh all the way to the bank meanwhile, you can stay on this board, continue your crusade and ....go nowhere.J.C.</blockquote><p>  You my friend are the confused one. I know exactly what this post is aboout and I'm speaking directly about it. I don't know how else to say this.... I know jewelers use soft metals, these are dirt cheap on the broker. I know that jewelers use loams, these are also dirt cheap on the broker. However, you stated that Jewelers use <i>more </i>loams than hard metals (ie. iron, carbonite, feyiron, etc, etc.) and that is simply not true. As I stated before a jeweler will us at least 3-4 times hard metals (ie. iron, carbonite, feyiron, etc, etc.) than loams going through a tier. You state that you have a jeweler.... ever look at the recipes??? Maybe you find it 'fun' to harvest for 5 hours a day just so you can get through a tier, only to throw 5 sacks of loams on the broker for 1 cp each... but I don'y think that the majority conseder this a good thing.</p><p>  It'd be a shame if you really don't read this because it seems to me that you're the one "there is really nothing that anyone can do to show you how how far off base you are."</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>Pogralien@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I always get more loam than ore.  As a woodworker I need the ore, and speding the plat it would take me to purchase stacks of it from the broker doesn't sit well with me.  I'm also a maxed out harvester, stripping T5 zones at the moment for harvests because I get bored to death with tradeskills (so they fall well behind my adventure levels).  Mostly it is the hours of harvesting needed to spend one hour making my shields, wands, staves, and bows.</p><p>Then again, As a Ranger I cry like a little baby while trying to get my rare Silicate Loam to pop.  I guess I want my cake (ore) and I want to eat it too (rare loams).</p></blockquote><p>I agree there is way too much loam coming off the ore nodes.  I wish ore were on a separate node. I realize a lot of classes need loam but all it has done is drive of the prices of ALL metals -- even carbonate. Maybe there just needs to be more ore nodes or something but right now the situation is very unsatisfactory. </p><p>To add insult to injury some nodes only give you ALL loam -- or you will get pulls of multple loams per pull and only 1 ore per pull. Needss fixing. </p>

[Grumble69]

The easiest solution is to just tweak how much ore drops.  Make it 3 (common), 5 (less common), 10 (rare).  Leave the loam as-is.  That's easier than combing through all the recipes and it will cut down my harvest time significantly.