Could we have these TS items reviewed and possibly changed [Archive]

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Hukklebuk

09-26-2007, 03:56 PM

taking some of the old loot and massaging it a bit - thoughts on why below each item: Apron of the Artificer equipped in chest slot<strike> +120 Hlth +120 Pwr +1260 vs Heat</strike> +5 to all crafting abilities Flowing thought V requires a tradeskill level of 65 to equip Loot drop in the level 70 version of Nektropos castle**** take the health, power and resist off this, frankly even could take the FT off it. having +5 to all crafting abilities and requiring a TS level of 65 when you typically only have one or two abilities is a little odd.....Tinkerer's Belt Waist slot<strike> Must be level 70 to equip</strike><strike> +28 wis, +28 int +75 HP, +75 power +720 vs heat, +468 vs mental</strike> +10 tinkering Loot drop from the Mad Tinkerer in The Estate of Unrest***** +10 to tinkering is clearly enough for this item. take the INT, WIS etc... off this item to promote it actually getting into the hands of a tinkerer. Drop the level 70 requirement to something reasonable or altogether. No need for it if you take the stats off, especially considering other crafted items give similar boosts (just not to tinkering).Unargin's smithy hammer One-handed hammer<strike> Must be fighter or priest , adventuire lvl 47 to equip +9 str +9 sta +36 Hlth +28 Pwt</strike> applies 'Blessing of the smith' when equipped - increases metalshaping and metalworking of the caster by 20 Loot drop from Unargin the blacksmith in Nektropos castle-The return (lvl 50 version)***** Must be fighter or Priest to get a Smithing bonus? drop the stats and make the requirement Weaponsmith / Armorsmith Dwarven blacksmith's hammer One-handed Hammer<strike> Must be Fighter or Priest. Adventure Level 45 to equip +9 Str +8 Sta +30 Hlth +30 Pwr</strike> Applies 'Blessing of the Smith when equipped' increases metalshaping and metalworking of caster by 20 Drops from???***** See above The Smithing Hammer One-handed Hammer<strike> Must be Fighter or Priest. Adventure level 42 to equip +15 Str +10 Sta +6 Agi +45 Hlth +50 Pwr</strike> Applies 'Brilliant Light' when equiped. Increases metal shaping and metalworking of caster by 26 Drops from ???***** Yet again... see above Thaydor's hammer of accuracy Dual-wield hammer<strike> Must be Fighter or Priest , Adventure level 48 to equip +8 Str +10 Agi +8 Int +30 Hlth +30 Pwr +2 crushing</strike> +4 Metalworking Drops from Weaponsmith Thaydor in Solusek Eye***** There's a pattern here...... Girdle of the Master Armorer Belt<strike> Requires Adevnture level 48 to equip +10 Str +10 Sta +10 Int +10 Wis +40 Hlth +40 Pwr</strike> +4 Metalshaping Loor from Armoursmith Gravik in Solusek Eye***** and it keeps on going....... Crana's brittle wand One handed staff<strike> Must be mage or priest, adventure lvl 47 to equip +6 str +6 agi +6 sta +12 int +40 hlth +40 pwr</strike> +4 chemistry Loot drop from Lord Crana in Solusek eye***** because all alchemists are Mages or Priests....... Crest of plague emendation Charm Equipable by all +8 Chemistry Applies 'Curative dark aura' when used Lasts 10min 3secs dispels 35 lvls of beneficial and hostile disease effects to group (AE) Increases in-combat health regeneration of group members (AE) by 5.0Reward to guild who cured the great plague of May 05***** beautiful!!! Bravo! and rightly deserved. Ancestral totem of the witchdoctor Charm Equipable by all +4 Chemistry Applies 'Ethereal dark aura' when equipped Increases Mitigation of caster vs disease dmg by 480 Reward to guild who cured the great plague of May 05***** again well done A Sewing needle Dual-wield Dagger<strike> Must be Scout, Mage, Zerker or Guardian to equip. Adventure level 67 +5 piercing</strike> +5 tailoring Flowing Thought V Found in the level 70 version of Nektropos castle***** again because only Scouts, mages, Zerker's and Guardians are Tailors....... Findingle's destructive needle Dual-wield weapon<strike> must be Mage,Scout, Zerker or Guardian Adventure lvl 62 to equip +15 str +15 agi +25 hlth +50 pwr</strike> +4 tailoring one of a choice of 3 rewards for the KoS collection 'Medium Airship plating'***** come on.... Eye-piece of Gaz Cloth headgear<strike> Must be adventure lvl 62 to equip +15 wis +15 int +25 Hlth +50 Pwr Flowing Thought I</strike> +4 artificing<strike> Must have adventure lvl 62 to equip</strike> one of a choice of 3 rewards for the KoS collection 'Medium Airship plating'***** If you require an adventure level to equip the item, then perhaps you should require an adventure level to complete the collection?Basically these are TS items, not all of us that tradeskill multiple classes (or all classes) are adventuring on all of them, but perhaps we'd like to not have to be an level 62 Ogre/Guardian with 43.7 AA to equip a +4 artificing belt........Domino, could you take a look at these sometime and see if it's really necessary to require adventure classes and skills on tradeskill items?And please don't limit tradeskill items to only certain classes, How many tailors really fit this description, really.... A Sewing needle Dual-wield Dagger Must be Scout, Mage, Zerker or Guardian to equip. Adventure level 67 +5 piercing +5 tailoring Flowing Thought V Found in the level 70 version of Nektropos castleit's not a lot of items, and hopefully it wouldn't take a lot of effort to change, but I think they should all be changed.my $.02

Calthine

09-26-2007, 04:19 PM

<cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>taking some of the old loot and massaging it a bit - thoughts on why below each item: Apron of the Artificer equipped in chest slot<strike> +120 Hlth +120 Pwr +1260 vs Heat</strike> +5 to all crafting abilities Flowing thought V requires a tradeskill level of 65 to equip Loot drop in the level 70 version of Nektropos castle**** take the health, power and resist off this, frankly even could take the FT off it. having +5 to all crafting abilities and requiring a TS level of 65 when you typically only have one or two abilities is a little odd.....</blockquote>I like the FT. Yeah, it's a tossup whether you regen better with when crafting, but it works for me. The + vs heat and + vs health are probably because when you take a physical hit when crafting it knocks your heath with heat.Edit: so basically you want all crafting stuff to be just + to skill. Why? IMO it's not broken, and it's not hurting anything. Lots of those are for adventurers who always craft - kind of a reward for doing it all. Like the 1H Piercer class restrictions are for classes that can use 1H piercing.

KerowynnKaotic

09-26-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* </blockquote>Edit: so basically you want all crafting stuff to be just + to skill. Why? IMO it's not broken, and it's not hurting anything. Lots of those are for adventurers who always craft - kind of a reward for doing it all. Like the 1H Piercer class restrictions are for classes that can use 1H piercing.</blockquote>yah .. but little to nothing for those pure crafters or lowbie adv/maxed crafters .. I gotta agree with Tormod. I'd rather see items that give + Crafting abilities to be geared towards ALL Crafters of the same profession. ie: if it's +chem it should be use-able anyone who does alchemy even if it requires a certain level in alchemy. Not limited to say.. an Dark Elf Adv lvl 65 with a Alchemy lvl 70 .. blah! etc .. Unless, they plan on adding a million other Options for those other Combos. ... Easier if they just change them to be Crafter Useable. If they do this I would also like ALL crafting items to be Attuneable. Remove the NO-Trade Restrictions from any of them, including the KoS Collection quest. Especially since I have already done that quest and also yelled bloody murder in /feedback about the collection quest. There was a 3rd reward which was a "smithy glove" or something/tank useable .. that gave + to safefall! My hubby chose it in hopes of someone coming to their senses and fixing it to be +metalshaping. The Sewing Needle doesn't look like a very good weapon as it is. So if it lost the ability to actually be used a weapon, would it really matter? Just change it to a display "weapon" that anyone can equip and that any and all Tailors can use for a skill bonus. Here's where they (SOE) can start to figure out how to make purely display weapons so that we can in the future (tm) get our Appearance Tab to accept Display weapons/shields. And .. maybe the Weaposmiths can have a new sideline of "fun" weapons ..

Freliant

09-26-2007, 05:42 PM

Those rewards are for those that want to do BOTH adventure and craft. IMO they are good the way they are. If anything, I think they should add more. There are some classes, like the sage, that have very little things to help them out, while other classes, like armorers have +skill up the wazzu... Just as a small example:Armorsmith: Brells Hammer +25 to metalshaping (among others), Unagrins Smithing hammer +25 Metalshaping, Artificers Belt +5 Metalshaping (among others, Ventur's Trim Hammer +10 Metalshaping and 1% success Artisan's Tunic +1 metalshaping... for a grand total of +66 metalshaping... that is13 levels above your current level in tradeskilling if you have those items.Sage: Sage - Artisan's Tunic +1 Scribing, Artificer's Belt +5 Scribing, Augren's Auspicious Inkwell +10 Scribing and 1% success... for a total of 16 to scribing. That is a 50 point difference between the max in metalshaping and the max in Scribing. I believe that MORE items should be introduced that give those type of rewards, and yes, I still believe that they should be given to the combination crafter/adventurer: more risk = more reward.

Rijacki

09-26-2007, 05:46 PM

Apron of the Artificer+5 to all crafting abilitiesWhile you need to be a high level crafter to use it, making it +5 to all means that -any- crafter can use it. It's not limited to only a tailor, an alchemist, a provisioner, etc. For most of the rest, the reason they have adventure stats is because they are adventure loot that also has a tradeskilling bonus. The stats are for the adventurer. The -added- benefit is if you happen to be a tradeskiller of that craft.But... all that aside, these are LOOT ITEMS, they don't require crafting to make. Thus they're probably not even in a database section Domino has access to. You might want to post your suggestions about these LOOT items to the Items forum.

Hukklebuk

09-26-2007, 06:53 PM

I don't buy the crafter / adventurer bit at all. Why? simply because you will quickly out level any possible adventurer benefit but quite possibly never outlevel the tradeskill benefit. I admit some of it is a wash, but a lot of it isn't Would any of you really go adventuring with this equipped? Dwarven blacksmith's hammer One-handed Hammer Must be Fighter or Priest. Adventure Level 45 to equip +9 Str +8 Sta +30 Hlth +30 Pwr Applies 'Blessing of the Smith when equipped' increases metalshaping and metalworking of caster by 20I didn't think so. Look I'm not asking anything to really be nerfed, just better defined. There are far better adventurer drops than these in the game, and with the macro system switching from crafting to adventuring is one click away. I just don't see the sense in tying adventure class, level, or stats to a crafting item bonus.***edit *** good point about them being loot items, however me posting elsewhere for the same topic is cross-posting and against forum rules. *** aren't semantics wonderful

KerowynnKaotic

09-26-2007, 07:10 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* I believe that MORE items should be introduced that give those type of rewards, and yes, I still believe that they should be given to the combination crafter/adventurer: more risk = more reward.</blockquote>More Risk = More Reward can be satisfied by the Adventurer selling said item for $$$$. Limiting the actual items to a certain Adv Class & certain TS Class .. LIMITS the reward. For both the Pure Adventure who would sell it and for the Muliple Adv/Crafter who would want it. Limits = BAD. Options = GOOD. However, Rijacki does bring up a good point. As far as the CURRENT Exisiting Batch of Tradeskill Helpers in the world .. she probably doesn't either have the access to or the authority to change these items. ... For any FUTURE Crafting items .. let's hope she makes herself very vocal to anyone who is creating these items and insures that we have TS helpers that can benefit us as a whole and not those few sections that can use [ said ] item. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rijacki

09-26-2007, 09:41 PM

<cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't buy the crafter / adventurer bit at all. Why? simply because you will quickly out level any possible adventurer benefit but quite possibly never outlevel the tradeskill benefit. I admit some of it is a wash, but a lot of it isn't Would any of you really go adventuring with this equipped? Dwarven blacksmith's hammer One-handed Hammer Must be Fighter or Priest. Adventure Level 45 to equip +9 Str +8 Sta +30 Hlth +30 Pwr Applies 'Blessing of the Smith when equipped' increases metalshaping and metalworking of caster by 20I didn't think so. Look I'm not asking anything to really be nerfed, just better defined. There are far better adventurer drops than these in the game, and with the macro system switching from crafting to adventuring is one click away. I just don't see the sense in tying adventure class, level, or stats to a crafting item bonus.***edit *** good point about them being loot items, however me posting elsewhere for the same topic is cross-posting and against forum rules. *** aren't semantics wonderful</blockquote>When that item was added, it was in line with other level 45 dropped items of a similar quality and difficulty to obtain. So, would I go adventuring with -this- equipped? If I was 45 at -that- time and of one of those classes, possibly. Would I go adventuring with it equipped at level 70? umm.. it's a level 45 item, of course not. yes, there are better level 40+ items now, but that's because old loot is often not revisited and the game has already had a bit of mudflation. (though I seem to remember a lot of complaints when Nek 3 opened about its loot being generally subpar except for a few items.. but even so, the ones you noted from there do fall in line with others from the same place even without the tradeskill bonus).I notice that you didn't use one of the Unrest drops in your example of "would you equip this" because they are in "end-game" items and recently added and so a much better quality for adventurers and especially adventurers at 70.As for having both on an item.. There are crafters, there are adventurers, there are crafters who adventure, there are adventurers who craft, and there are even adventurer/crafters (neither is more important than the other). Just because those loot items don't cater to what you choose as a proper playstyle doesn't mean they wouldn't fit with someone else's.The only thing I do agree with you on... why the frell is there a tradeskill bonus on an item that's restricted by adventure class.Oh.. and I am also pretty positive the tradeskill bonus on any of these items, especially the Nek III stuff, was an afterthought and not in the original design of the item and its stats. They came from various times of tradeskiller appeasement ("look we added tradeskill things in game, really we did&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> attempts.As for "cross posting".. that usually only applies when someone intentionally opens the same kind of thread in multiple locations all at the same time with the intent that each of them remain going seperately. Moving a topic to an appropriate forum, either by opening a new thread in the right place or by asking one of the mods to move your existing thread there, is 100% within the forum rules.

Noaani

09-26-2007, 10:43 PM

<cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's not a lot of items, and hopefully it wouldn't take a lot of effort to change, but I think they should all be changed.</blockquote>Every single item you listed here is a reward from adventuring. In order to actually get the item in the manner intended, you will be of a high enough level (or very close) to equip it, thus the adventuring level of each item is totally valid. While you CAN purchase these items off the broker (or the collections off the broker), they all still require adventuring of that level to obtain.While I am not overly enthused on the idea of items with tradeskill bonuses being restricted by adventure class, when you look at the items that these restrictions are on (and you remember that they are items dropped from adventuring, thus primarily adventuring items), it is easy to see the reasoning behind it.The biggest reason I see no real reason to complain about these items is the simple fact that they are not needed, and the bonus the provide a tradeskiller is so small that they are simply not worth it.My hope is that with RoK, and with needing pristine on an item to get a product, tradeskilling will become a little more difficult at the combine level, and make items such as these valuable, if not actually vital, to crafters.If it is near impossable to get pristine on an item unless your skill level is 20 - 25 points above the level of an item, then items with skill bonuses would be of an actual value. If making it to pristine on an item would run you out of power, then items with FT would be of great value to a crafter. As it stands now though, all of these items are little more than fluff as far as the crafting bonus is concerned.

Terron

09-28-2007, 08:10 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> <>Every single item you listed here is a reward from adventuring. In order to actually get the item in the manner intended, you will be of a high enough level (or very close) to equip it, thus the adventuring level of each item is totally valid. While you CAN purchase these items off the broker (or the collections off the broker), they all still require adventuring of that level to obtain. Yes, but there ought to be items giving similar bonuses for pure crafters. While I am not overly enthused on the idea of items with tradeskill bonuses being restricted by adventure class, when you look at the items that these restrictions are on (and you remember that they are items dropped fromadventuring, thus primarily adventuring items), it is easy to see thereasoning behind it.The biggest reason I see no real reason tocomplain about these items is the simple fact that they are not needed,and the bonus the provide a tradeskiller is so small that they aresimply not worth it. That is true. My hope is that with RoK, and with needing pristine on an item to get a product, tradeskilling will become alittle more difficult at the combine level, and make items such asthese valuable, if not actually vital, to crafters.If it is nearimpossable to get pristine on an item unless your skill level is 20 -25 points above the level of an item, then items with skill bonuseswould be of an actual value. If making it to pristine on an item wouldrun you out of power, then items with FT would be of great value to acrafter. As it stands now though, all of these items are little morethan fluff as far as the crafting bonus is concerned.</blockquote>Mobs of a particular level are tuned for adventurers equipped with gear of that level.If crafting gear is to be a useful part of the game then the difficulties of recipes needs to take that into account.But the difficulty can't be increased without at the same time making the gear reasonably easily available.It shouldn't be difficult to do. For example:Add a factor that reduces effective skill according to the difficultyclass of the recipe, perhaps by 4% for handcrafted, 6% formastercrafted, and 8% for special ones.Then a +2 bonus per tier would be needed to maintain thecurrently difficulty of getting pristine handcrafted (which is verylow), +3 per tier for master crafted, and +4 for special recipes.Each tier could be given one slot for which a mastercrafted item could be made giving a bonus of +2 (typically). Maybe T1 could have artisan boots for +1 to all crafts (to go with the current tunic)T2 could have scholar, outfitter and crafter pants giving +2 to the relevant 3 skills.T3 could have chest items giving +3 to specific skills (extra +1 are itreplaces the tunic). Some classes might share items, such asweaponsmiths and armoursmiths.T4 might have tools equippable in the primary hand (which might work asweapons, but only equal to tier 1 mastercrafted apart from the craftbonus of +2) - smith's hammer, cook's knife, sage's pen, carpenter'shammer.T5 might have charm items giving +1 each - spice box, sage's notebookT6 might have items equippable in the secondary slot - smith's tongs, frying pan, wood chiselT7 might have TS profession hats.The T4 and T6 recipes could be for weaponsmiths, T3 and T7 for tailors,and T5 might be spread out, maybe even with each class making their own.Special recipes, quest rewards, etc.. might give a bigger bonus, andwould be needed to maintain the ease of mastercrated recipes. The Maraitem would do it so they could be added later.

Zahmekos

09-28-2007, 08:54 AM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>As for having both on an item.. There are crafters, there are adventurers, there are crafters who adventure, there are adventurers who craft, and there are even adventurer/crafters (neither is more important than the other). Just because those loot items don't cater to what you choose as a proper playstyle doesn't mean they wouldn't fit with someone else's.</blockquote>Do you remember the outcry because there was a HQ where you had to be high level crafter to do it?It has been changed to make the adventurers happy.Now its the other side and much worse, you have not only to be a high level adventurer to use it, you have to be a certain class to equip it.How would the adventurers react if you had to be a L70 armorer to equip the 'best' weapon?I'm not against loot for a crafter combo, but its not funny to introduce such nice loot with these restrictions, since you can't switch adventure class and you have to choose your adventure class at the beginning, not like your crafter class.

Rijacki

09-28-2007, 10:59 AM

<cite>Zahmekoses wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>As for having both on an item.. There are crafters, there are adventurers, there are crafters who adventure, there are adventurers who craft, and there are even adventurer/crafters (neither is more important than the other). Just because those loot items don't cater to what you choose as a proper playstyle doesn't mean they wouldn't fit with someone else's.</blockquote>Do you remember the outcry because there was a HQ where you had to be high level crafter to do it?It has been changed to make the adventurers happy.Now its the other side and much worse, you have not only to be a high level adventurer to use it, you have to be a certain class to equip it.How would the adventurers react if you had to be a L70 armorer to equip the 'best' weapon?I'm not against loot for a crafter combo, but its not funny to introduce such nice loot with these restrictions, since you can't switch adventure class and you have to choose your adventure class at the beginning, not like your crafter class.</blockquote>Note where the items requiring a certain class come from. Now, think back to when -that- zone was added to the game. Since that point (and even before Domino started here), there was a crafting-level required quest added (in an adventure pack), there were adventure drops with crafting bonuses added without class restrictions (and much better items for the adventure side, too), there were a new version of writs added, there was a commission system added (to allow an adventurer contract with a crafter to make items instead of grinding and grind dumping a tradeskill class himself), there were also special recipes and recipe components added to a mid-level adventure instance and a current level cap raid zone.In addition, the class restricted items are level 45, they weren't even at the cap (or the best adventurer related item) when they were brought into the game.I'm trying to remember when Nek III was added.. before DoF? or after? It's level leads me to think it was before, but I'm drawing a blank. BUT, it was also before items, of any type, were consistent in any way for the stats and bonuses for a level. It was also in the time the devs were planning to release 2 expansions and 2 adventure packs a year spreading their development resources -very- thin (and producing things with less polish than EoF and now RoK promises to be).Do not judge the state of the game or even the place of tradeskills within it based on Nek III or its drops.BTW, the plague event was likely planned -before- launch and occured a few months in. I can guarentee, there was a lot of outcry about how that was a bit of bait and switch. The last step required one to be a level 45+ alchemist (cap was 50 at that time) -and- level 45+ adventurer -and- to be in a a top raid guild -and- have Bloodline Chronicles -and- be part of the raid force to defeat the boss mob of the final Bloodlines raid (something not very easy at the time). If I recall correctly, only one player world wide got the +8 to alchemy item and only one player per server got the other one. The quest was removed a month or two after the plague was "cured" (and many servers never did defeat the raid, they just had the plague event removed anyway). Until Mara, after that (and before Domino), there was never anything else even semi-tradeskill related as a quest unless you count writs.

Finora

09-28-2007, 11:33 AM

I think all those loot items are perfectly fine how they are.Why? Because they work how they are. They are a bonus for high level adventurer/crafters. And aren't a complete piece of crap for adventurers who don't craft. Thus useable by a nice variety of people. Which is a good thing as far as dropped loot is concerned.Don't think I don't want more stuff for crafters, I think it would be great. I do NOT however think that the pre-existing items should be rendered useless to the people that are using them for their stats because some crafters want things RIGHT NOW.Domino's already said she's working on stuff for crafters, quests, great rewards and what not. Be patient.

Terron

09-28-2007, 12:31 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'm trying to remember when Nek III was added.. before DoF? or after? It's level leads me to think it was before, but I'm drawing a blank. BUT, it was also before items, of any type, were consistent in any way for the stats and bonuses for a level. It was also in the time the devs were planning to release 2 expansions and 2 adventure packs a year spreading their development resources -very- thin (and producing things with less polish than EoF and now RoK promises to be).</blockquote>Google is your friend <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Game Updates August 9,2006 *** Nektropos Castle: Tribulation *** - Whispers abound of strange occurrences near Nektropos Castle. Some claim to have heard the spirit of Lord Everling himself calling out. - Rumor has it that recent earthquakes have uncovered burial chambers near this haunted ruin. Perhaps exploration of one such unearthed crypt near the castle could reveal more information. - Venture through Nektulos Forest to Nektropos Castle and unravel the mysteries... if you dare! - This new journey through one of our most popular landmarks is intended to provide a challenge for a full group of level 70 characters. Did you mean Nek II? That was added in LU6.

Noaani

09-29-2007, 07:20 AM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, but there ought to be items giving similar bonuses for pure crafters.</blockquote>I totally agree, there "should" be items purely desinged for crafters, but the existing items in the OP should not be changed to pure crafting items, as they are equally benificial to adventurers (or in the case of some of them, more benificial to adventurers than they are to crafters).The problem is, in order to add crafting gear to the game, several things would have to happen, and they would have to happen in a specific order, and with warning of what is about to happen.The first thing that would need to happen is the items themselves would need to be created, added to the game, and given quests to acquire some of said items and recipes to make some. This would have to be the first step, and is likely an incredably time consuming process, and may well prove to be more than a single developer is capable of doing by themselves.This would need to be more than just a single item, or even a single item per class, otherwise it will be viewed as an insignificant change to the crafting game. There would need to be dozens of items (hundreds even), with bonuses to different stats and new effects may need to be created (things like increases power regen while crafting, chance to add durability when using a durability counter, progress with a progress counter, items that have a chance to proc power regen when using counters...).This step may even be able to be taken as far as allowing stats to affect certian tradeskills. I could see having a high str being an advantage with weapon and armorsmithing, agi with tailoring and jewelery, int with alchemy and sagecraft, sta with woodworking and carpentry, and wis with provisioning and the secondary skills. if taken this far, the bonuses would need to ignore these stats if they come from buffs, and only apply benifits from the appropriate stat if it comes from gear.For the next few weeks, any crafter with these items will find crafting an absolute breeze, which is why, in the very next LU, the crafting process would have to be made harder. This could be in the form of increasing the chance of a failure, increasing the amount of progress needed per combine, whatever, just make it harder to get pristine.The reason this would have to be done this way is simply because if they were done together, any crafter trying to craft an item without the newly released gear would find it near impossable to get pristine. However, if everyone is given 4 - 6 weeks notice of the crafting combine about to be made harder, and are given that time to assemble a set of crafting gear, they have no reason to complain about the change (they will still complain, but then can be told they had 6 weeks to prepare).If it were me doing this, I would try to do it in a manner similar to how I understand it to work in Vanguard. Add a third tab to the inventory window that is specifically for crafting gear. Give it 21 slots (same as adventuring gear, less the food/drink slots, which would remain the same for crafting). Make it so only items in these slots apply their bonuses to crafting, and any item in these slots apply bonuses ONLY to crafting. As soon as a player walks up to a crafting station, their gear switches from their adventuring gear to their crafting gear. Adding this would have the added bonus of being able to make items equipable by tradeskill class/level, and not having any impact at all on the adventuring game. A level 1 adventurer/70 crafter would be able to equip crafting gear with stats and effects for a level 70 crafter, without it affecting his adventuring ability at all, and a level 70 adventurer/1 crafter would not gain the benifit of high end adventuring gear while crafting.

Tokam

09-29-2007, 07:54 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>taking some of the old loot and massaging it a bit - thoughts on why below each item: Apron of the Artificer equipped in chest slot<strike> +120 Hlth +120 Pwr +1260 vs Heat</strike> +5 to all crafting abilities Flowing thought V requires a tradeskill level of 65 to equip Loot drop in the level 70 version of Nektropos castle**** take the health, power and resist off this, frankly even could take the FT off it. having +5 to all crafting abilities and requiring a TS level of 65 when you typically only have one or two abilities is a little odd.....</blockquote>I like the FT. Yeah, it's a tossup whether you regen better with when crafting, but it works for me. The + vs heat and + vs health are probably because when you take a physical hit when crafting it knocks your heath with heat.Edit: so basically you want all crafting stuff to be just + to skill. Why? IMO it's not broken, and it's not hurting anything. Lots of those are for adventurers who always craft - kind of a reward for doing it all. Like the 1H Piercer class restrictions are for classes that can use 1H piercing.</blockquote>IMO if its a tradeskill (helping) item and it has +stats / +power then it is broken and should be redone. If you want to make loot for adventurers then make loot for adventurers with adventurer restrictions on it as to who can use it. If you want to make loot for tradeskillers then give it the stats that benefit tradeskillers (like -10% of max power....) make it tradeable and put tradeskilling restrictions on it as to who can use it.If you are an adventurer and you also craft you should be making your own life easier by taking these poorly designed items off when you craft. If you dont have some space in your bags for a few bit of crafting specific gear then you should make room.

Rijacki

09-29-2007, 03:27 PM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'm trying to remember when Nek III was added.. before DoF? or after? It's level leads me to think it was before, but I'm drawing a blank. BUT, it was also before items, of any type, were consistent in any way for the stats and bonuses for a level. It was also in the time the devs were planning to release 2 expansions and 2 adventure packs a year spreading their development resources -very- thin (and producing things with less polish than EoF and now RoK promises to be).</blockquote>Google is your friend <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Game Updates August 9,2006 *** Nektropos Castle: Tribulation *** - Whispers abound of strange occurrences near Nektropos Castle. Some claim to have heard the spirit of Lord Everling himself calling out. - Rumor has it that recent earthquakes have uncovered burial chambers near this haunted ruin. Perhaps exploration of one such unearthed crypt near the castle could reveal more information. - Venture through Nektulos Forest to Nektropos Castle and unravel the mysteries... if you dare! - This new journey through one of our most popular landmarks is intended to provide a challenge for a full group of level 70 characters. Did you mean Nek II? That was added in LU6. </blockquote>Yeah II the Return. I get those mixed up because it's the same place jsut from a different angle.LU #6.. wow.. that was even before the -first- sweeping combat changes of LU#13. No wonder those items are.. umm.. like that.

Hukklebuk

10-01-2007, 07:20 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't buy the crafter / adventurer bit at all. Why? simply because you will quickly out level any possible adventurer benefit but quite possibly never outlevel the tradeskill benefit. I admit some of it is a wash, but a lot of it isn't Would any of you really go adventuring with this equipped? Dwarven blacksmith's hammer One-handed Hammer Must be Fighter or Priest. Adventure Level 45 to equip +9 Str +8 Sta +30 Hlth +30 Pwr Applies 'Blessing of the Smith when equipped' increases metalshaping and metalworking of caster by 20I didn't think so. Look I'm not asking anything to really be nerfed, just better defined. There are far better adventurer drops than these in the game, and with the macro system switching from crafting to adventuring is one click away. I just don't see the sense in tying adventure class, level, or stats to a crafting item bonus.***edit *** good point about them being loot items, however me posting elsewhere for the same topic is cross-posting and against forum rules. *** aren't semantics wonderful</blockquote>When that item was added, it was in line with other level 45 dropped items of a similar quality and difficulty to obtain. So, would I go adventuring with -this- equipped? If I was 45 at -that- time and of one of those classes, possibly. Would I go adventuring with it equipped at level 70? umm.. it's a level 45 item, of course not. yes, there are better level 40+ items now, but that's because old loot is often not revisited and the game has already had a bit of mudflation. (though I seem to remember a lot of complaints when Nek 3 opened about its loot being generally subpar except for a few items.. but even so, the ones you noted from there do fall in line with others from the same place even without the tradeskill bonus).1) I notice that you didn't use one of the Unrest drops in your example of "would you equip this" because they are in "end-game" items and recently added and so a much better quality for adventurers and especially adventurers at 70.2) As for having both on an item.. There are crafters, there are adventurers, there are crafters who adventure, there are adventurers who craft, and there are even adventurer/crafters (neither is more important than the other). Just because those loot items don't cater to what you choose as a proper playstyle doesn't mean they wouldn't fit with someone else's.3) The only thing I do agree with you on... why the frell is there a tradeskill bonus on an item that's restricted by adventure class.Oh.. and I am also pretty positive the tradeskill bonus on any of these items, especially the Nek III stuff, was an afterthought and not in the original design of the item and its stats. They came from various times of tradeskiller appeasement ("look we added tradeskill things in game, really we did"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /> attempts.As for "cross posting".. that usually only applies when someone intentionally opens the same kind of thread in multiple locations all at the same time with the intent that each of them remain going seperately. Moving a topic to an appropriate forum, either by opening a new thread in the right place or by asking one of the mods to move your existing thread there, is 100% within the forum rules. </blockquote>1) No that's not why, I didn't include the Unrest one because #1 useable by a Tinkerer, not limited to a Swashbuckler or something. Although I will concede I am comparing that tier (5) loot from original content to the new content, which since both loot types are in, it's fair to compare them. The new stuff is better, we know that.2) I'm not arguing that point, non-issue.3) That's the one that really really bothers me, and maybe it is a major pain to go back and change those now. Maybe I'll even concede the whole change the items bit, but I would ask that at least going forward, tradeskill beneficial items aren't limited by adventure class restrictions. SoE makes it a point to go back and change a lot of what we saw in the original game, good or bad we all usually end up discussing it.sorry for digging this back up from a few days, and thanks for keeping it to good discussion.thanks for the replies folks.*edit spelling