Berserker feel? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Banshee505

09-24-2007, 02:13 PM

Ive read abit on the forums being a new beserker and ive noticed one big thing...shield use seems to be critical for success. This kind of makes me wonder if the whole feel of being a beserker is how it should be. I always imagine a beserker being all offense little defence....like an ogre duel wielding axes and just pummeling his foes into the ground before they can do much about it. I always imagine guardian as the sheild user and beserkers to be the risk takers sacraficing defence for pure offense.Just now funny enough im using a two handed axe...just being it was far better than what i had at the time. Do you feel like a berserker on your character? How do you find duel wield against using a shield? Do you think that shields are very beserker like? This is PURE OPINION there really are no right or wrongs in this because its personal opinion feel free to put down what you think and feel a beserker is like <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Velusia

rumblepants

09-24-2007, 02:44 PM

You can still dual wield. However if you are going to tank and do damage at the same time then you probably would have to strap on some type of shield (in our case, bucklers) for protection. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As a dwarf berserker I don't lose that Berserker feel at all. Plenty of novels glamorizing battle frenzied dwarves with 2-handers, and axe and shield. Few berserkers and barbarians in fantasy lore actually really dual wield.

einar4

09-24-2007, 03:01 PM

Alot of what we think of berserkers are actually different from the historical view of berserkers. Mainly with respect to armor and weapons. Much of what is thought of about berserkers was in fact true of all vikings of the period. The berserker (berserkr - Bear skin or Bare skin, maybe an old icelandic pun. The norse loved word play) were warriors that would work themselves into a blood rage before combat. Some theories have been raised that drugs such as mushrooms or partially fermented beer was used for a narcotic effect, but nothing from the old sagas confirms any of those hypotheses. Actually the berserkers were not exactly spoken of with complimentary tone in the old sagas. They were usually depicted as stupid bullies. Think of Bluto from the Popeye cartoons and you get the idea. As far as the idea of berserkers not wearing armor. Well, really, most vikings didn't wear armor either. For one thing, armor was only for the very wealthy, and steel was hard to find, usually metal was found only in peat bogs and then it was felt to be better used as weapons such as a good sword instead of chain mail. There was also (possibly) the reality that they were seafarers. Contrary to what you see in the game, if you get in water wearing any kind of metal armor, you sink like a rock, no matter how good of a swimmer you are. Usually vikings (and berserkers) only had a shield, a leather skullcap, perhaps metal, and a spear. Rich vikings had a sword or a glaive. Most of them had perhaps a throwing axe, an extra spear to throw, or a shortbow. So the idea of the berserker as the bare chested warrior is true, but that isn't what set them apart. They were no different from other vikings there. The berserkers did use shields however. This was actually documented in a passage in Egil's saga which I'll have to recall from memory. In a confrontation with a gang of berserkers, Egil was taunting them. The leader of the band of berserkers shouted at Egil and chewed on his shield in consternation and a show of his toughness. Egil spurred his horse forward (he was on horseback) and kicked upward at the bottom of the berserker's shield, breaking the berserker's skull open and according to the tale, killing him instantly. The berserker was set apart not by weapon or armor, but by fighting style. Actually by the "Red-rage" that they worked themselves into during their fight. They were a terror to behold (this according to the Irish that were primarily their unhappy victims), frothing at the mouth and screaming with blood curdling cries as they rushed to the enemy in the first wave of attackers, racing each other to be the first to engage, and the first to die. The Norse believed that only those that died most gloriously and fearlessly, ferocious in combat, would be the ones to sit with the gods in Valhalla as honored guests. When good men died seemingly for senseless reasons, the old saying was that, "Odin needs his armies" speaking of the future time when the final battle, Ragnarok, would take place. So IMHO, I would say that berserker is not really about look or weapon choice, but more about style and attitude. And the combat arts and fighting styles in the game for the character class are pretty well suited for the concept of a berserker. The only difference is that most people don't want a berserker in their group that is too eager to die in battle, as that usually means party wipe <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xalmat

09-24-2007, 03:12 PM

You did your homework. I'm impressed!Lore and such aside, from a game mechanics standpoint you'd be wise to use a good shield while tanking regardless of your class, due to the dramatic increase in avoidance it provides. Your job as a tank is to hold aggro, and you can't hold aggro if you die because you can't survive getting hit. A good shield blocks a significant number of incoming attacks, outright preventing damage done, not just reducing the damage (which is what all that heavy plate armor is for).

Troll-Lo

09-24-2007, 07:29 PM

"So IMHO, I would say that berserker is not really about look or weapon choice, but more about style and attitude. And the combat arts and fighting styles in the game for the character class are pretty well suited for the concept of a berserker. The only difference is that most people don't want a berserker in their group that is too eager to die in battle, as that usually means party wipe <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />"Ikarri wrote"Much of what is thought of about berserkers was in fact true of all vikings of the period." Nope dont thinks so. First you cant call all Northmen for Vikings. Vikings were those that set about to raid and pillage, outcasts, outlaws etc. Pirates in other words, and they werent very popular. The second is that that Berserkers most likely belonged to a warrior cult like many other tribal cultures. The invasions of Britain, France and other European countries werent vikingraids but rather largescale military operations by the Danes. Southern part of Sweden was a part of the Danish kingdom at that time. Berserkers and other similar cults were probably used as "special forces"" The berserker (berserkr - Bear skin or Bare skin, maybe an old icelandic pun. The norse loved word play) were warriors that would work themselves into a blood rage before combat. Some theories have been raised that drugs such as mushrooms or partially fermented beer was used for a narcotic effect, but nothing from the old sagas confirms any of those hypotheses. "Agree "Actually the berserkers were not exactly spoken of with complimentary tone in the old sagas. They were usually depicted as stupid bullies. Think of Bluto from the Popeye cartoons and you get the idea."You can also think of them as war veterans returning home unable to cool down. Like the history of Hells Angels, who was founded by WW2 Vets. That could of course be said of many of the other Norsemen returning home. "As far as the idea of berserkers not wearing armor. Well, really, most vikings didn't wear armor either. "If you talk about small viking (pirate) raid then its possible true. On a fast hit and run on a Monastery it would probably be more practical to be ligth armored. However in a large battle good armor would be necessary. "For one thing, armor was only for the very wealthy, and steel was hard to find, usually metal was found only in peat bogs and then it was felt to be better used as weapons such as a good sword instead of chain mail."Have you ever heard of Swedish Steel ? Scandinavia has plenty of metal. Ore and Wood is one of our major exports. Perhaps you are talking about Iceland ? They made among the finest weapons in Europe in that time only to be beaten by the french later on, especially when the french longsword came."There was also (possibly) the reality that they were seafarers. Contrary to what you see in the game, if you get in water wearing any kind of metal armor, you sink like a rock, no matter how good of a swimmer you are."True but it doesnt stop anyone to gear up when the land ashore."Usually vikings (and berserkers) only had a shield, a leather skullcap, perhaps metal, and a spear. Rich vikings had a sword or a glaive."Maybe true on Iceland due to lack of resources but generally roundshield, axe, spear, sword, bow. steelhelmet and chainarmor were standard in military units in Denmark"Most of them had perhaps a throwing axe, an extra spear to throw, or a shortbow." An axe is a great assaultweapon, especially in combination with a triangular formation, to break through an enemy line. A perfect job for a berserker. And if they were bare chested in that situation to save energy then I can buy it. But throwing axes ? Throwing a spear I can understand but throwing axes ? Dont think that is very efficient. "The berserkers did use shields however. This was actually documented in a passage in Egil's saga which I'll have to recall from memory. In a confrontation with a gang of berserkers, Egil was taunting them. The leader of the band of berserkers shouted at Egil and chewed on his shield in consternation and a show of his toughness. Egil spurred his horse forward (he was on horseback) and kicked upward at the bottom of the berserker's shield, breaking the berserker's skull open and according to the tale, killing him instantly."I love those stories. They are generally true even if they are a bit exaggerated with a funny cruel humor <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /> "The berserker was set apart not by weapon or armor, but by fighting style. Actually by the "Red-rage" that they worked themselves into during their fight. They were a terror to behold (this according to the Irish that were primarily their unhappy victims), frothing at the mouth and screaming with blood curdling cries as they rushed to the enemy in the first wave of attackers, racing each other to be the first to engage, and the first to die."Agree. They were a formidable assault force that broke through enemy lines so that the rest of the army could follow up. Comparing a berserker with an regular "viking" in that time is like comparing a Navy Seal with a Marine today."The Norse believed that only those that died most gloriously and fearlessly, ferocious in combat, would be the ones to sit with the gods in Valhalla as honored guests. When good men died seemingly for senseless reasons, the old saying was that, "Odin needs his armies" speaking of the future time when the final battle, Ragnarok, would take place."Its true when it comes to Odin worshippers. Many of the wealthy and powerful aettirs (clans) went to Iceland from Norway, to avoid their christian king, were Odinworshippers.Snorri Sturluasson, a catholic priest who wrote down the Icelandic sagas 250 years after Iceland was christianisized, is said to have been from such a family. However in the rest of Scandinavia Thor, Frey and Freya were honored higher. So Valhall wasnt the only place. Some believed they came to another gods place, some to Helheim wich is a Norse version of Hades and some others that they joined their ancestors in the gravemounds, hills, forests, mountains etc. Ancestral belief was quite common and later led to the belief in Huldras, Vittras, Darkelves, Woodelves and other folklore that has inspired much of the culture we have today.For instance some of the races in Everquest <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Jupp I took Berserker since I wish to be the best Solo and Grouptank. Of course Guardians beat us in raids but how many spots are there for Maintanks in Raids anyway <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />

einar4

09-26-2007, 04:26 PM

Nope dont thinks so. First you cant call all Northmen for Vikings. Vikings were those that set about to raid and pillage, outcasts, outlaws etc. Pirates in other words, and they werent very popular. The second is that that Berserkers most likely belonged to a warrior cult like many other tribal cultures. The invasions of Britain, France and other European countries werent vikingraids but rather largescale military operations by the Danes. Southern part of Sweden was a part of the Danish kingdom at that time. Berserkers and other similar cults were probably used as "special forces" No. Actually the vikings were not outlaw, in fact the word outlaw had a very specific meaning that had nothing to do with raiding. In fact, in many of the clans of Norway and Denmark, there was a "levy," of men that were called out to engage in raids of the coastlines of europe and great britain. Outlaw's meaning was based upon the idea that certain actions would lead a person to be considered outside the law's protection, and at the mercy of a families vengeance. It was usually the result of either murder or theft. Raiding was not considered theft to the norsemen. As ironic as it sounds, killing a foreigner and taking his possessions was not immoral, while stealing alone was. Now it is true that not all northmen were vikings, since Viking means "Raider" (probably). However these were neither outcasts nor outlaws. It was generally the practice of the old Norse to go to distant shores, fight, and take with them whatever spoils could be had. There was no moral question at all there. You have to understand this was not the same kind of mindset that exists in modern day. In fact, King Harald and his son Erik Bloodaxe were both raiders that called for levy's of men to sail with them to scotland and ireland, and Erik was himself Christianized. Have you ever heard of Swedish Steel ? Scandinavia has plenty of metal. Ore and Wood is one of our major exports. Perhaps you are talking about Iceland ? They made among the finest weapons in Europe in that time only to be beaten by the french later on, especially when the french longsword came. And how did they get this metal in 600 ad? Extensive mining networks? There are plenty of coal mines in the US and Britain, but I don't think that there were many coal mines in 600 ad. As I said, the source was peat bogs. The steel weapons that were produced by scandinavians involved a twisting that resulted in fine weapons that rivaled Damascus and Japanese steel, and was both rare and expensive for the common man. Its true when it comes to Odin worshippers. Many of the wealthy and powerful aettirs (clans) went to Iceland from Norway, to avoid their christian king, were Odinworshippers.Snorri Sturluasson, a catholic priest who wrote down the Icelandic sagas 250 years after Iceland was christianisized, is said to have been from such a family. I would like to know that source, because every historical source relating the settlement of Iceland refers to the the fact that the chieftains of Norway rejected the consolodation of power by the King Harald Finehair, but it has also been suggested that it was simply overcrowding of livable space on Norway that led to the settlement of the Orkneys and Iceland, and also the fact that in his consolodation of power, many of his enemies fled to Iceland, the Shetlands, and the Orkneys rather than give up their sovereignty. However, archeaological findings on Iceland point up that there there were some small clans that apparently began to settle and lived there even before the exodus of the Irish monks on that island. It was not until 1000 AD, some 400 years after the settlement of Iceland, that Iceland agreed by popular vote to convert to christianity with the caveat that persecution of those that followed the old practices was not to be tolerated. This was pretty much at the end of what historians call the Viking age (1066). The belief of death in combat for the honor of sitting in the halls of the Asgard was not specific to any cult, it was a general belief of the warriors that had any kind of serious belief in the stories of their fathers at all. In fact, most warriors of the norse were more in tune with the god Thor than Odin. Thor was considered the friend, a big brother type, while Odin was the scary and wrathful father. Odin cults were usually those that indulged in Rune magic, although the gift of the skald, talent with poetry and words, was considered to come from Odin. The runes were said to be the creation of Odin. The idea of "Odin worshippers," "Thor worshippers," etc is more some kind of modernized twist on ancient religions. The concept of a polytheistic religion is hard for some people to get their head around I know, but these religions did not have some kind of sectarian division. People generally believed in them all and did not say, "my god is better" or any of that business. The pantheon was a complete pantheon and there were no little sects of people vieing for the trivialization of one god over another.