Question on Swarthy Disorder

[Laereneth]

<p>Once again, I'm trying to master the change over and have a question about one of our CAs.</p><p>Yesterday when I was grouping with one of our raid tanks, he asked me to drop my Avoid Censure while using Swarthy Disorder on him.  He stated that a very well played Swashy once told him that it will generate more hate to transfer.  Now this got me to wondering the mechanics of this transfer.</p><p>Does it A) transfer part of your hate, per attack at the time of the attack or B) transfer a part of your total hate at any given time.</p><p>In scenario A, using a Master I Swarthy Disorder at 18% transfer, if you hit 3 times and generated 1000 hate each hit, you would transfer 180 hate to the tank for each hit.  Netting you a 820 hate per hit for a total of 2460 and netting the tank a 180 hate per hit for a total of 540.  And irregardless of how many times Avoid Censure or Ingorant Bliss proced during that time, the 540 hate to the tank would remain the same.</p><p>In scenario B, using the same level Swarthy Disorder, if you hit 3 times and generated 1000 hate each hit, you would transfer 180 hate to the tank for each hit.  Once again netting you a 820 hate per hit for a total of 2460 and netting the tank a 180 hate per hit for a total of 540.  But in this scenario, say if your Avoid Censure proced once during those three attacks, lowering your hate for a hypothetical round number of 1000, this would lower your total hate generated from 3000 to 2000 thus reducing the hate transfered to the tank to 360.</p><p>My knee jerk reaction would be to expect the CA to work as in scenario A.  But, after yesterday's comment, I wanted to get hard confirmation from the experienced Swashies out there.</p><p>Thanks for your feedback!</p><p>Laer</p>

[Spag]

<p>I dont have any factual information for you, but it is my understanding that what he told you is false.</p><p>The hate transfer takes place as you gain hate, where as the hate reductions take place on your total hate after the transfer has taken place.  Things such as the avoid line, evade, and ignorant bliss poisons all take place after swarthy has transferred hate to the tank, and do not affect the amount you are transferring.</p><p>The only ability that I know of that will affect it is Evasiveness, which is the hate reduction in the INT AA line with reduces your overall hate gain.</p>

[quasigenx]

Spag's assertions are my understanding, as well.

[Spag]

<p>Of course now I have a question about Swarthy stacking with amends.  The hate transfer cap is 50%.  My swarthy is 18%, and amends is 41%.  Does anyone know how these stack together?  Would my swarthy only transfer 9% due to amends, would amends transfer 32% due to my swarthy?  Would casting order matter?  Would the game split the difference and transfer say 35% from Amends and 15% from Swarthy?</p><p>We were in a raid with a paly tank, and we wanted to maximize the hate gain from the warlock, simply to keep him alive.  If I pulled agro, I could evade and what not, or even use ignorant bliss poisons if it was an issue.  I used my lvl 34 transfer which was 9%, to make sure they wouldnt conflict.    Just curious as to how this works.  Anyone know?</p>

[RLrogue]

<p>I think your reading a little too far into things..</p><p>The pally should put his amends on the caster, and you should put your transfer on the pally.</p><p>They don't stack, rather they tend to cancel each other out.</p><p>Put your transfer on the pally, and go all out.</p><p>If he taunts when it's up, you shouldn't pull agro hardly at all.</p><p>Unless, your weapons are far above his or he just plain sucks.</p><p>In any case, NEVER use both. </p><p>If the pally thinks he HAS to put his amends on you, transfer your hate to the healer.</p><p>And, if your not in the MT group, always put your hate on the healer.</p><p>Never go without the transfer, as it reduces your DPS.</p><p>And, always use your highest evades and ignorant bliss.</p><p>Mental Breech is also your friend.</p><p>Dmaul</p>

[Rippitt]

No - threat reduction procs/spells have no effect on the amount of hate you transfer to the target. Effects that reduce/add to your HATE GAIN% will, however. Swarthy of course does not stack with amends. A couple paladins I played with would always wait until I cast swarthy on them to place amends on someone. When we were the main tank and main tank transfer, he'd have amends on our defiler, hate gain from dirge, hate transfer from me, and there was basically no hope of ever pulling mobs off him. Only problem with that is, the shaman isn't generating any hate with the mobs until they are attacking him and chewing up wards. Mental breach? [Removed for Content]? Scintillating Phantom Handle is your friend.

[Pulli]

<p>Spag is correct.</p><p>Hate gain (plus or minus) takes place first then hate transfer takes place then deaggro abilities are applied. A simple test in my guild's raids confirmed this: When I did not have a coercer giving me hate gain I was unable to strip aggro while the warlock could do it with ease. However, when I did have the coercer hate gain I was able to strip aggro with inspiration only while the warlock could not strip at all. Lastly, if I took avoid censure off and stopped using deaggro while I had hate gain from the coercer I stripped aggro way too often.</p>

[Spag]

<cite>RLrogue wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think your reading a little too far into things..</p><p>The pally should put his amends on the caster, and you should put your transfer on the pally.</p><p>If the pally thinks he HAS to put his amends on you, transfer your hate to the healer.</p></blockquote>I think you misready my post, amends is not going on me, its going on the lock, but I am told there is a 50% hate transfer limit.  If I am giving him 18% and the amends on the warlock is giving him 41% of his, thats much more than 50% overall going to the paladin.  So what I am saying is my 18% clipping the amends short (i.e only 32% of the warlock's hate going to the paly), is amends clipping my swarthy short (i.e. only 9% of my hate going to the paly), or do they both apply to the tank just fine and the 50% transfer limit is just a myth?