Am i bugged or is T5 Provisioner bugged?:)

[Zenadina]

<p>Not sure if this is a know bugged or not, just recently turned lvl 40 Provisioner and updated my Hotbar and grabbed my lvl 40 Rush Order writ. For the first time in a long time i failed it<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I couldn't figure out why i was taking me so long, then today i really looked at my new buff and whammo:</p><p>Lvl 40 buffs on my Provisioner</p><p>Pressure Cooker: Decreases Durability by 3, Increases Progress by 9</p><p>Familarity: Increase Progress by 27</p><p>Sugar-Coat: Decreases success chance by 3.0%, Increases Progress by 9</p><p>my LvL 20 progress buffs:</p><p>Rapid Boil: Decreaces Durability by 6, Increases Progress by 18</p><p>Forsight:Increase Progress by 10</p><p>Pinch of Salt: Decreaces success chance by 9%, Increase Progress by 27</p><p>Like i said, sorry if this is a know issue. Didn't see anything about it and its making me stop crafting on that alt<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Barbai]

looks about right to me atleast compared to other classes,  of things not being linear in the upgrades. I would just mix and match  the tiers myself, once your skill it capped it doesn't matter what buff you use you get its description so if you prefer just use the tier 3 buffs when using the durability cost ones and the tier 5 when you want to use the power cost one.

[Zenadina]

Except if you look again its a downgrade not a upgrade, by quite a bit too

[Rijacki]

<cite>Khadah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Except if you look again its a downgrade not a upgrade, by quite a bit too</blockquote>And that's the way it is for all the classes.  The former tradeskill dev said they weren't intended to be "upgrades" but to "fill in" the others.  Some classes actually have it worse.

[Zenadina]

<p>And this is why we need a revamp of the Buff system, i'm sorry but when you get new buff they shouldn't be worse then the old ones. They are even worse then the ones you get a lvl 1. </p><p>So what your telling me is to ignore the progress buffs for lvl 40 and use the lvl 20 ones until lvl 60<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Khadah wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And this is why we need a revamp of the Buff system, i'm sorry but when you get new buff they shouldn't be worse then the old ones. They are even worse then the ones you get a lvl 1. </p><p>So what your telling me is to ignore the progress buffs for lvl 40 and use the lvl 20 ones until lvl 60<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Domino's got the Arts slated for a revamp.  Yeah, the arts are definitely not in linear progression, and it gets more confusing with T6 and T7.  The old TS dev said when he put those in that they were to fill gaps in the progression.I'd warn against not using your new Arts at all - remember it takes using white con arts to get skillups.  Be sure you're always incorporating white-con (non-greyed out) arts at least for a few combines right after you ding to get your five skillups per level!  The good news is that as you level up the Arts stay white a lot longer.  Just examine what you're using from time to time and make sure you've got some non-grey ones in there (even if it's just until you hit your skill cap).

[Snowdonia]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'd warn against not using your new Arts at all - remember it takes using white con arts to get skillups.  </blockquote>That's incorrect. I use NO "even" arts with my Carpenter (all are grey) and while skilling up is a tad slower, I still manage to gain the 5 skill afforded each level before I make my next level. I was sure to pay close attention to my skill up factor when using my arts and what arts I was using when I got the skill ups. None were "even."

[Calthine]

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'd warn against not using your new Arts at all - remember it takes using white con arts to get skillups.  </blockquote>That's incorrect. I use NO "even" arts with my Carpenter (all are grey) and while skilling up is a tad slower, I still manage to gain the 5 skill afforded each level before I make my next level. I was sure to pay close attention to my skill up factor when using my arts and what arts I was using when I got the skill ups. None were "even."</blockquote>It's possible to get skillups with grey arts, but they are very few and far between, and eventually your skill will fall well below your cap.  Not to sound arrogant or anything, but in three years your is the first post I've ever seen saying all-grey arts kept them caught up.  Usually it's 3-4 threads a week on "why am I not getting skillups", and they haven't picked up their new arts in a Tier or so.

[Cadori Seraphim]

Actually I just dinged 68 prov and had no trouble keeping my *artistry* caught up with grey art skills <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Calthine]

lol, that's great.  Fan Faire Domino said skillups are tied to using your arts, not "your non-grey arts", so I could be wrong.  But how do we explain people NOT being able to keep their skils up.  Just under-using or not using their arts?  Thus far the "use your white arts" advice has always worked getting people caught up.Rijacki recently challenged me to start a new toon and keep her skills up without ever having to resort to grinding just for skillups, and I haven't had a problem at all.  The challenge occurred because lots and lots and LOTS of people have this issue.  Any thoughts?

[Cadori Seraphim]

I honestly dont know how people cant keep them up.. That sorta boggles my mind lol

[Calthine]

<cite>Cadori Seraphim wrote:</cite><blockquote>I honestly dont know how people cant keep them up.. That sorta boggles my mind lol</blockquote>It's entirely possible if you don't know how to apply your Arts - like if you only reacted to events, never used 'em otherwise.  But it's a huge problem, lol.

[Meirril]

<p>If you were leveling a sage or alchemist I could see this being an issue. You level so fast you might not have to grind 60% of a level. </p><p>White counters seem to give a better skill up rate. However, grey counters do give skill ups. Just not as fast. I'm fairly certain its always been this way. White counters seem to me to be something like a 30% chance each time the counter is used. Grey counters seem to be much lower than that. Something like 10% or less I imagine. If you wern't aggressive with counters (like most new crafters who don't understand the system) you might never catch up. If your aggressive with the counters (like most of us here would be) you shouldn't have any issue with skilling up on just grey counters.</p><p> Back to the origional discussion: don't fix the counters please! If they get "fixed" and tier 2 counters are changed to be more like tier 4 counters it will be MUCH harder to pristine items at low level.</p>

[Snowdonia]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Back to the origional discussion: don't fix the counters please! If they get "fixed" and tier 2 counters are changed to be more like tier 4 counters it will be MUCH harder to pristine items at low level.</p></blockquote>How so? Only one of the 3 abilities uses power. After my first bar is filled, I drop that one and never have power issues (and I don't craft naked or use totems or anything either). I'd rather they get fixed personally.

[Rijacki]

It's not about using Arts -wrong- or not knowing how to apply Arts proactively (that's the wording Calthine uses that I find -very- offensive), but it is about your focus while crafting. If you concentrate solely on maxing your skill, you will craft differently than someone trying to max pristines or speed through a level. Sadly, it does seem slanted toward the grind for skill rather than for using your Arts proactively based on the process of the crafting. Calthine focuses merely on maximising skill. Her way is right for that. If, however, you -appropriately- use Arts to practively craft based on the progress of the process and ignore making sure to use -only- white Arts most of the time (whether the process will be negatively impacted or not), then your skill may fall behind at times when your white Arts aren't worth diddly (or you're leveling faster, like the lower levels).

[Calthine]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not about using Arts -wrong- or not knowing how to apply Arts proactively (that's the wording Calthine uses that I find -very- offensive), but it is about your focus while crafting. If you concentrate solely on maxing your skill, you will craft differently than someone trying to max pristines or speed through a level. Sadly, it does seem slanted toward the grind for skill rather than for using your Arts proactively based on the process of the crafting. Calthine focuses merely on maximising skill. Her way is right for that. If, however, you -appropriately- use Arts to practively craft based on the progress of the process and ignore making sure to use -only- white Arts most of the time (whether the process will be negatively impacted or not), then your skill may fall behind at times when your white Arts aren't worth diddly (or you're leveling faster, like the lower levels).</blockquote>I'll try not to use the word wrong <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />  I usually say there are LOTS of right ways, and a couple of ways that definitely don't work.  Rijacki, you're mixing up a lot of things I've said, and completely misrepresenting several separate sets of advice I've given.  It's starting to make me grouchy.First, there's advice to people whose skill has slipped below their cap.  That is a particular fix which takes maybe a whole five minutes (maybe 30 if you're way behind).  That is not how I advocate crafting; I've never once said my focus (or anyone else's focus) should be on skill, I just try to help out people who've gotten themselves in a jam skillwise and can't get skillups or get pristine because their skills got behind.Then there is advice on how to use your arts.  As a matter of fact, I've never advocated any particular crafting method excepta) craft proactively, and b) after you ding get those white con arts in there a couple of combines to make sure you get your skillups.I quite specifically say in my guides that there is more than one right way to successfully use your arts, and I avoid advocating any particular way.Meanwhile, the new tailor you challenged me to level up is not having any problems keeping her skills up, and I'm doing nothing special at all about the skills.  Just making my Pristines and grinding the rest of the level on fluff clothes.  My focus is leveling and pristine, not keeping my skill up.edit:  Rijacki and I are friends and are allowed to get grouchy with each other.

[Rijacki]

I only disagree with your insistance that people don't know how to use Arts correctly or even at all if their skill is not always max. I wiill continue to say that it can slip behind in certain early level ranges if you're watching process and not only concentrating on skill-ups and making sure to always use white Arts (even when the -process- doesn't need those arts or they're counter-productive). It's also not a bad thing unless it's more than about 5 levels behind and it will catch up without always making sure to use white arts every combine. Just like transmuting skill can be gained all the way to 350 on nothing but T1 and T2. The lags of skill vs level are bigger now and more likely in the lower tiers, even if you do know how to craft well and properly (but don't watch to make sure you use white each combine but craft to the process). But you and I disagre because we craft different and that's okay, too. I also like raiding and you don't raid (or not much) but all playstyles are valid and good. There's not just one way to do it.

[Calthine]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>I only disagree with your insistance that people don't know how to use Arts correctly or even at all if their skill is not always max. </blockquote>I have never that.  Not "always" at max.  You're putting words in my mouth.  When people post that their skill isn't keeping up (and they almost always post that they can't get pristine at the same time) I say they're using their arts wrong.  You're right, I probably shouldn't use the word wrong. I have only told people how to catch their skill up when its way below the cap - and that's more than five levels.   And usually after telling them to make sure they picked up their new arts I say "If you want advice on how to catch your skill up fast, post back", because that's all it is, a way to get caught up.<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lags of skill vs level are bigger now and more likely in the lower tiers, even if you do know how to craft well and properly (but don't watch to make sure you use white each combine but craft to the process).</blockquote>And again, you challenged me to make a toon so I could observe this myself.  I'm not seeing it and you're refusing to acknowledge that it's possible this phenomenon is not a flaw in the game, because it obviously does not happen every time.  First y'all told me it's T1 and T2, then I was told it's T3, and she's 26 and I'm still not seeing it.  <cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>But you and I disagre because we craft different and that's okay, too. I also like raiding and you don't raid (or not much) but all playstyles are valid and good. There's not just one way to do it.</blockquote>You've seen this advice I give and somehow you've gotten completely the wrong idea on how I craft.  And I have never ever advocated just one way to do it.  Quite completely the opposite - just check out my Arts Guide.Please, you keep taking this ONE piece of advice I give on how to catch your skill up to it's cap, that I only post when people ask how to get their skill caught up, and you're somehow applying it to my whole playstyle.

[ke'la]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Back to the origional discussion: don't fix the counters please! If they get "fixed" and tier 2 counters are changed to be more like tier 4 counters it will be MUCH harder to pristine items at low level.</p></blockquote><p>The counters are not getting "fixed" they are getting completly redone (think LU13).</p><p>What I know for shure.</p><p>You will get both +Progress AND +Durablity from lvl 1(this is also do to sub-pristines going away)</p><p>This is what I think I know</p><p>You will not end up with a knowage book full of counters like you do now, instead as you enter a new tier the spells should auto-upgrade and they accually WILL BE an upgrade.</p>