so what is our purpose?

[Zabom]

Forgive me, but this is a bit of a rant. I have a lvl 70 wizzy, speced agi/wiz. My int is over 700 and am fairly well geared. Unfortunately I have a hard time breaking 1300 dps on raid mobs. I used to think this was good till I grouped with a pally that was consistantly doing 7000 dps. I have also noticed that scout classes usually out dps me as well. The way I see it, there should be a trade off. The plate wearers should do the least DPS in the game, chain wearers second, leather third, and us squishies should be able to out dps any of the other classes. Of course that comes with the responsibility to use the dps wisely or get agro and die, but we should at least be able to do the max damage. Wizzys have no value to the group other then dps, so we should have the max dps. Scouts offer group stealth, tracking, and some nice buffs. The pally mentioned above was an outstanding and very much in demand tank. I have also be out dpsed by a fury who can heal if she chooses and a mystic who can ward and buff. sure we have wizzy ports, but it has been my experiance that the druid ports are better placed for convieniance. Don't get me wrong, I love my wizzy and want to continue playing him, but SOE needs to make wizzys more desirable for groups. We either need to out DPS ALL other classes, or we need a utility spell like CoTH that makes us a commodity.

[Moza]

<p>Before someone posts the usual rude remark of something like 'go learn to play your class' - I'll assume you're sincere and just treat this seriously. The short reply is you probably just need to experiment more in putting out dps in very fast pull short duration fights, middle duration fights, and long duration power drain fights - you have to learn how to dps separately in each of those major pull types in terms of speed.</p><p>Then throw in that each of those scenarios has different tactics and strategy for maximizing your dps based on solo mob pull, duo, or large group aoe centric pulls, you end up needing to eventually learn how to max your dps through different scenarios. It's the polite way of saying there's a lot to learning the wizard class to really get the impressive dps it is capable of.</p><p>Read here to learn to configure your AA and easily obtainable must-have standard wiz gear if you havent done so already. There's some contention between aa lines but really, whether you go str wis or agi wis it's pretty small difference that only counts at the elite levels. For the vast majority of the norm, just pick either until you can make up your own mind.</p><p>In my opinion (I play and raid with all mage classes other than coercer) the Wizard is the easiest mage class to get fair to decent dps on, but is at the upper reaches the hardest to get the truly awe inspiring and capable dps output, short burst or long fight sustained, regardless of pull scenario - solo, duo mobs, triple, or 5+ mob aoe pulls.</p><p> A properly played wizard can hang right up there with the best of warlock and conjy aoe dps output (not beat consistently, although sometimes yes - hang in there to be competitive so they dont kill your zonewide), and just crush any other mage on the solo to duo mob pulls. To forestall the objections - no, I dont think ALL wizards can do this. In fact, my experience has been this breed is pretty rare and far in between.</p><p> But back to the topic of the OP, whether you reach that upper strata, which also is reliant on having good raid setups, leaders, gear, etc - what we're talking about here is far far less than that. You're talking about your wizzy being out dps'ed or even challenged by a fury and mystic. Even solo without raid buffs and debuffs hitting only 1.3k dps is pretty low - and if you really are being beaten or challenged in dps by a fury or mystic - seriously, that's not the class being broken, or someow lacking in pure dps, you just need to read this board more, try out all the different advice on casting strategies, and keep plugging away until you get to 2k dps in the avg raid with nothing but you and a scout group. Seriously - that's about the standard - with zero troub, illus TC, fury vim buffs, etc. (the ideal mage group) - just you and nothing but a melee group around you, a decent wizard should be able to output 2k dps with nothing but themselves in most raids. the one huge qualifier is that if your overall raid dps is pretty low - so low that it really ups the kill time on the avg trash or name mob, then it'll be harder to hit that 2k range, but whether you hit 1.8 or even 1.7k vs the 2k area, it's worlds apart from what your stating is the current dps you get at 1.3k or so.</p><p> And sorry I just re-read that you are spec'd correctly agi/wis, and your int is decent if not very high at 700'ish. Casting tactics and strategy then - that's all it is. With the belief of course that it's not the class that is broken, but you needing more experience.</p>

[JohnDoe058]

<p>Being the "Red headed step child" isn't a purpose?</p><p>In short, I'd like to see any wizard put up the 2.5k-3k ZW DPS that any self-respecting assassin can put up, without all the buffs in the world.  I've beaten, by a good margin, every sorc that i've ever raided with...and I'm in the #2 guild on my server, in terms of what we take down, and how fast.  But it still doesn't compare at all, to scout DPS atm.</p><p>Our lot is to take it in the bum, by the dev team.  I haven't done any real playing on my wiz in a while, and TBH i'm losing interest.</p>

[slippery]

<a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/4807-new-parse-thread-25.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/48...-thread-25.html</a>Recent parses from a lot of respected Wizards. If you think we can't parse maybe you should read some of the threads on how.

[Zabom]

I am not suggesting that the class is broken. The fact that we make the parse regularly in a raid says a lot. What I am saying, is that our ONLY purpose is ranged dps. Wizards/Warlocks are the only class that has no secondary purpose. With that in mind, we should be the highest DPS class in the game. Yet ranger is the class that holds this title. We cannot effectively add melee dps to our parse, because of our squishy nature and raid mob tendency to use AEs. This makes the damage potential of our weapons pointless. We can only hope we don't draw agro, therefore proccing gear is pointless. So, our DPS is limited to our spells. We master those, we try to spec aa trees to reduce casting time and cost, we increase our int to maximize damage, and experiment with the perfect casting order, but then we hit a max dps that nothing seems to help with. What we need, is either a secondary "utility function" that makes us valuable to the group, or a way to increase our dps further. Maybe auto ranged proccing weapons so it would be like adding melee damage. either way. If we are the only class who's only function is ranged dps, then we should be the best at ranged dps.

[slippery]

We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? If you think proc gear is pointless, you might want to think about trying out another class to see if you enjoy it more.Only class whose function is ranged dps? What about the other 5 Mages and Rangers?Again, I state, if you think we are having so many dps problems you really need to read some of the threads on increasing your dps. Our dps is quite fine.Every dps class thinks they should be the highest dps in the game, and they each have their own valid opinions

[Zabom]

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? </blockquote>Let's look at this from a diferent perspective. You are  group leader. You are looking to fill the last spot in your group with dps. Do you take the Wizzy, who may be able to pull off 2.4k dps if he is one of the 1 in 10 that isn't speced for manaburn and catalyst. or do you take the ranger who is good for 3k no matter how he is speced and also brings group stealth and track to the table. it is a no brainer, take the ranger. I am speced agi/wiz fire/ice with iceshape and frigid gift maxed. I know how to play my class. My complaint is not with what I can do compared to other wizzys, rather it how other classes view wizzies. That view is typacally "not good for anything but dps and not even the best at that" more dps would help that view, so would some utility ability. I personaly would love to see the ability to levitate and move a corpse added to our capabilities. That would put us more in demand. Again I am not just complaining about DPS, I am complaining about our "desirability" to a group.

[slippery]

<cite>Zabom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? </blockquote>Let's look at this from a diferent perspective. You are  group leader. You are looking to fill the last spot in your group with dps. Do you take the Wizzy, who may be able to pull off 2.4k dps if he is one of the 1 in 10 that isn't speced for manaburn and catalyst. or do you take the ranger who is good for 3k no matter how he is speced and also brings group stealth and track to the table. it is a no brainer, take the ranger. I am speced agi/wiz fire/ice with iceshape and frigid gift maxed. I know how to play my class. My complaint is not with what I can do compared to other wizzys, rather it how other classes view wizzies. That view is typacally "not good for anything but dps and not even the best at that" more dps would help that view, so would some utility ability. I personaly would love to see the ability to levitate and move a corpse added to our capabilities. That would put us more in demand. Again I am not just complaining about DPS, I am complaining about our "desirability" to a group.</blockquote>If you find any top raiding guild they will tell you Wizards can do dps, because they all have a Wizard that is more than capable. You also underestimate the value of Iceshape/Frigid Gift and how much dps it brings to your group (maybe you don't cast it enough?). Cast it every time it is up next raid you go on and see how much it did for each person in your group and total that up and see how much dps you brought to the raid. Not to mention when grouped with an Illu they don't need to run their Int buff so they can throw another synergism or haste out there. If you can play your class and do dps you are more than desirable. I never get asked to sit a raid, and when I offer to sit because we need a certain person in the raid for whatever mob I get laughed at because I bring plenty dps, and that is what matters.Rangers do not have group stealth, and track is not applicable to raids. Not to mention that a Ranger isn't doing 3k without the Rigid Scale Bow and proper buffs. You are just disillusioned if you think they can just be thrown in a raid with crap gear in a crap group and do that much dps, it will not happen.

[Moza]

<cite>Zabom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? </blockquote>Let's look at this from a diferent perspective. You are  group leader. You are looking to fill the last spot in your group with dps. Do you take the Wizzy, who may be able to pull off 2.4k dps if he is one of the 1 in 10 that isn't speced for manaburn and catalyst. or do you take the ranger who is good for 3k no matter how he is speced and also brings group stealth and track to the table. it is a no brainer, take the ranger. I am speced agi/wiz fire/ice with iceshape and frigid gift maxed. <b>I know how to play my class. My complaint is not with what I can do compared to other wizzys, rather it how other classes view wizzies.</b> That view is typacally "not good for anything but dps and not even the best at that" more dps would help that view, so would some utility ability. I personaly would love to see the ability to levitate and move a corpse added to our capabilities. That would put us more in demand. Again I am not just complaining about DPS, I am complaining about our "desirability" to a group.</blockquote><p>Then why did you say on your very first post, the original that started this whole discussion, that a) you had a hard time doing more than 1.3kdps in raid - no aspersions to you, that is just a simple statement of very poor wizard dps skills - and b) that you were being outparsed by Furies, and even Mystics? Again, even the most neutral of observers is going to say after these two statements that you do indeed have some learning to do to improve play and dps of your class.</p><p> Aside from that though, your assumptions above are wrong in the hypothetical wiz vs ranger selection for the very last spot. First, the very last spot doesnt matter squat - what is the raid makeup of the overall force? Does the raid leader have two troubs and two illus, enough to outfit two entire mage groups but no extra dirge for a scout group? Is he packed with melee support classes but no troubs? rangers are great dps, for sure. But rangers arent going to hit 3k zonewide if they dont have raid support either. But let's drop that misassumption and just say every mighty ranger out there is going to hit 3k with nothing but themselves solo buffed and their uber bow that still many dont have from mayong or wu.</p><p>Why cut this hypotehtical wizard off at 2.4k and the ranger "at 3k no matter how he is speced"? Take a zone like EH - not some cakewalk raid zone where you can inflate your parses like your typical walk in the park LoA run. A properly played and supported wizard can hit the 3k zonewide or near to it, say 2.7 to 3k+ depending on the day and how much overall raid dps output the group is doing, with individual fights hitting 4 to high 5k on the 3-mob pulls. Saem with the rangers. If you want to have a whole separate argument about whether wizards suck at dps without raid class support like troubs, fine, take that as another thread - I'm talking here about the reaility of a raid force that selects and outfits their crew based on knowing class balance and making sure they have well built mage and scout groups, MT group, OT group, etc. If you want to debate, and there is good points in it but it's a separate topic, of who does better completely solo with zero raid buffs or in raid with no class supporting buffs, take that aside from your argument here. You brought up the context of wiz, and your limited 1.3k dps IN RAID. So that's what I'm discussing.</p><p> In a raid, with both in their appropriate class type group, ranger with scout group and wiz with mage group, either a good ranger or a wiz is going to be able to hit 3k zonewide or higher on the eof zones, and just laugh themselves silly at how high they can hit on the kos raids, so your hypotehtical scenario is meaningless - the smart raid leader would take who he thought a) was the better player at his class and b) would support the overall raid force better depending on his/her available other classes on that raid and c) what minor details of that specific raid zone would be better supported by one class versus another.</p>

[Moza]

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? </blockquote>Let's look at this from a diferent perspective. You are  group leader. You are looking to fill the last spot in your group with dps. Do you take the Wizzy, who may be able to pull off 2.4k dps if he is one of the 1 in 10 that isn't speced for manaburn and catalyst. or do you take the ranger who is good for 3k no matter how he is speced and also brings group stealth and track to the table. it is a no brainer, take the ranger. I am speced agi/wiz fire/ice with iceshape and frigid gift maxed. I know how to play my class. My complaint is not with what I can do compared to other wizzys, rather it how other classes view wizzies. That view is typacally "not good for anything but dps and not even the best at that" more dps would help that view, so would some utility ability. I personaly would love to see the ability to levitate and move a corpse added to our capabilities. That would put us more in demand. Again I am not just complaining about DPS, I am complaining about our "desirability" to a group.</blockquote>If you find any top raiding guild they will tell you Wizards can do dps, because they all have a Wizard that is more than capable. You also underestimate the value of Iceshape/Frigid Gift and how much dps it brings to your group (maybe you don't cast it enough?). Cast it every time it is up next raid you go on and see how much it did for each person in your group and total that up and see how much dps you brought to the raid. Not to mention when grouped with an Illu they don't need to run their Int buff so they can throw another synergism or haste out there. If you can play your class and do dps you are more than desirable. I never get asked to sit a raid, and when I offer to sit because we need a certain person in the raid for whatever mob I get laughed at because I bring plenty dps, and that is what matters.Rangers do not have group stealth, and track is not applicable to raids. Not to mention that a Ranger isn't doing 3k without the Rigid Scale Bow and proper buffs. You are just disillusioned if you think they can just be thrown in a raid with crap gear in a crap group and do that much dps, it will not happen. </blockquote><p>Here's parse data of what iceshape with 5pts max frigid gift brings as extra dps to a mage group - wiz, conj, illus, troub, warden (didnt have normal fury), and brig. </p><p><u>MMIS raid 9/18 - start to zone clear</u> (abbreviated cut list) - lazy with screenshots but can post if the disbelief creeps in; no mage used a stake to inflate our parse in this run, only the scouts and MT. The second number I have in parentheses following each person's zonewide total is the portion that Icelash was accounted for zonewide for that toon.</p><p>Allies: (46:56) 68820415 | 24439.07 [Norwendor-Stake Through the Heart-187882]Moz 7861993 | 2791.90 {wiz}  (Icelash = 213k dmg, 75.78 extDPS)Kat 7550712 | 2681.36 {conj}  (Icelash = 367k dmg, 130.60 extDPS)Ash 6349221 | 2254.70 {assassin}Hel 6065348 | 2153.89 {brig}  {Icelash = 7k dmg, 2.71 extDPS)Nor 5095713 | 1809.56 {ranger}Tho 4786724 | 1699.83 {mt guard}Hun 4406736 | 1564.89 {necro}Nac 4217797 | 1497.80 {illus}  (Icelash = 256k dmg, 91.23 extDPS)Ust 1549808 | 550.36  {troub} (Icelash = 38k dmg, 13.70 extDPS)Syr 574370 | 203.97  {warden}  (Icelash = 36k dmg, 13.13 extDPS)</p><p><b>total icelash proc dmg for mage group - 917k dmg, 327 extDPS</b></p><p><u>Emerald Halls raid 8/30</u> - we were instancing so this date was from Thirgen to Wu</p><p>total icelash proc dmg for mage group - wiz, conj, illus, troub, fury, brig</p><p>Moz 441k dmg, 95.8 extDPSDiv 727k dmg, 157.78 extDPSSna 526k dmg, 114 extDPSGav 282k dmg, 61 extDPS</p><p><b>total icelash proc dmg for mage group - 1.976mil dmg, 428 extDPS</b></p><p>Overall, this range is about right - a wiz casting IS+FG whenever it is up (most times, there's some exceptions when it just didnt make sense) is going to add about 300 on the low side, to mid-400s dps as extra output from the mage group depending on length and type of raid zone.</p><p>In order to make up this dmg delta as a free proc to the mage group toons, the hypotethical ranger would have to parse into the 3.2k zonewide if the wiz is hitting around 2.8k, and into 3.4k if the wiz is getting close to 3k, just to break even from the extra benefit icelash gives the mage group. This isnt to say rangers cant do it - not bashing them, they are great dps for sure. But since the topic of this conversation is the OPs low dps output as a wiz, and the viable other uses a wiz can bring to a raid other than personal dps, ask any good raid force mage group - do they love having a wiz in mage group who casts IS+FG like crazy?</p><p>Can't speak for all but my guys sure do.</p>

[Zabom]

OK, Obviously I am not going to win this argument, so let me approach this problem from a different angle. I am not in a "raiding guild" where everyone knows the ins and outs of each others class and how best to group them. I have found guilds like that to be more stressfull then I like. I mostly do pick up raids and instance groups. My DPS is obviously low compared to your standards, but I have found that on my server, (butcherblock) my DPS is high compared to other wizzy's that I group/raid with. I have read and implemented everything possible on this board that is concidered to be best for dps . I have masterd most of my spells and adept 3d those that plat restraints prevented mastering. I use the "suggested raid casting order" right down to creating the macros. I have speced my aa trees for max raid dps as well. my gear is still not the best, mostly Al'kabour stuff but I am doing my best to improve that. i have to atribute my higher then other wizzys dps to all of those changes. Still The parses show wizzy's as week and the general server wide perception is that wizzys are not good dps compared to scouts. Again I can't speak for the elite hardcore raiding guilds that only allow guildies on their raids because I am not in one. I am frustrated not so much at the parse, as I am at the attitude I find other classes have toward wizzys.

[slippery]

Then the only advice I can give is figure out how to up your dps, ask for the right classes in your group, and show them that Wizards can dps. They only have that perception as long as you let them.Also, the pick up raiders are a far cry from the consensus on how much dps any class can do, because their views are often insanely skewed.

[enrond]

<p>Zabom lol, you think a well oiled raiding guild is more stressful than a pu raid or grp?, bro, you need to re think this, i think most people would find a pu raid absolutley unbearable hehe <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Btw keep yer chin up, sounds like you are on the right track with you spell order and aa, I bet you would see alot of improvement with the right raid set up.</p><p>Enny</p>

[JohnDoe058]

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/4807-new-parse-thread-25.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/48...-thread-25.html</a>Recent parses from a lot of respected Wizards. If you think we can't parse maybe you should read some of the threads on how.</blockquote><p>Seeing parses from wizards with avatar gear + TC + Syn + Troub/dirge....just darling.  But as precious as it is, says NOTHING for the experience of the typical raiding wizard.</p>

[ailees]

The oldest wizzies, who do not post anymore now, always have said that wizards in the top DPS if, and only if, they have the right people with them.I have been in the same guild since EQ2 beginning. I have been parsing for almost 2 years now. It is not a top gun one, just a good casual.I know that I can be in the 2 or 3 top, far before any other of my fellow wizards friends, if I have the right buffers. If i have not, then I'm 5/10 depending on who is on raid. And my DPS, zone wide, can be around 1200 or double ! characters like assassin or conjuror are much less dependent on buffers, then they can be much more regular.Yesterday we went to clean first floor of EH (we will try and kill Prince next week.. right now we never did, that's our raid level, we are good but nothing in comparison with a hardcore guild) In my group, no good buffer machine : No agro management, no time compression. I tried to cast with max DPS, to see what result it gives. I died 9 times and went down to 1100. I would have been better (of course) dying less but not much better. I was 7th in parser ; Conjurer (a good one, I admit) was at 2K.That how wizzies are, you like it (well, let's say you admit it, I don't really like being so dependent on others), or reroll !..P.S. that's why I play a sorcerer in Vanguard, high, very high DPS... not depending on who is with you. But that's another question, right ?

[Force Weaver]

<cite>Zabom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>We offer more than just our dps to a raid especially when compared to a ranger. Group Str/Int, and Iceshape/Frigid Gift alone is very nice, compared to what does a ranger bring? </blockquote>Let's look at this from a diferent perspective. You are  group leader. You are looking to fill the last spot in your group with dps. Do you take the Wizzy, who may be able to pull off 2.4k dps if he is one of the 1 in 10 that isn't speced for manaburn and catalyst. or do you take the ranger who is good for 3k no matter how he is speced and also brings group stealth and track to the table. it is a no brainer, take the ranger. I am speced agi/wiz fire/ice with iceshape and frigid gift maxed. I know how to play my class. My complaint is not with what I can do compared to other wizzys, rather it how other classes view wizzies. That view is typacally "not good for anything but dps and not even the best at that" more dps would help that view, so would some utility ability.<span style="color: #00ff00;"><span style="font-size: small;"> I</span><span style="font-size: small;"> personaly would love to see the ability to levitate and move a corpse added to our capabilities.</span></span><span style="color: #00ff00;"> </span>That would put us more in demand. Again I am not just complaining about DPS, I am complaining about our "desirability" to a group.</blockquote>This is one of the most original and potentially useful utility request for the Wizzy class I've seen on this board in a long time.  Although with all the added abilities and firepower added to the game classes as a whole over time this may not be as critically needed  or useful as it would have been if implemented the 1st year of the game.  Wizzy's dont have a serious problem getting in groups much anymore or pickup raids at least on my server as they used to before poison procs got nerfed or the summoner's pets were kicked back a little or iceshield actually was attributed to wizzy dps in ACT.

[Daghammerskold]

<cite>ailees wrote:</cite><blockquote>The oldest wizzies, who do not post anymore now, always have said that wizards in the top DPS if, and only if, they have the right people with them.I have been in the same guild since EQ2 beginning. I have been parsing for almost 2 years now. It is not a top gun one, just a good casual.I know that I can be in the 2 or 3 top, far before any other of my fellow wizards friends, if I have the right buffers. If i have not, then I'm 5/10 depending on who is on raid. And my DPS, zone wide, can be around 1200 or double ! <span style="color: #0000cc;">characters like assassin or conjuror are much less dependent on buffers, then they can be much more regular.</span>Yesterday we went to clean first floor of EH (we will try and kill Prince next week.. right now we never did, that's our raid level, we are good but nothing in comparison with a hardcore guild) In my group, no good buffer machine : No agro management, no time compression. I tried to cast with max DPS, to see what result it gives. I died 9 times and went down to 1100. I would have been better (of course) dying less but not much better. I was 7th in parser ; Conjurer (a good one, I admit) was at 2K.That how wizzies are, you like it (well, let's say you admit it, I don't really like being so dependent on others), or reroll !..P.S. that's why I play a sorcerer in Vanguard, high, very high DPS... not depending on who is with you. But that's another question, right ?</blockquote>As a conjuror, I would argue that we are more dependent on buffers than wizards. Wizards benefit more from single-target buffs (TC, Vim, etc) because those buffs effect every spell the wizard casts but, if cast on the conjuror would not effect the pet's spells (around 40% of my damage more or less). Groupwide buffs, however, effect both me and my mage pet making them much more important to how much damage I put out. Without the Int and other buffs, procs etc from the other members of the mage group my pet is weak and my DPS suffers.

[Zabom]

Well since I started this thread, I thought I would give an update on what I have since learned. I have been looking at the parses and seeing myself 2nd to 4th position regularly but rarely 1st. This was frustrating me. However, I never really paid that much attention to how often the people above me were consistantly above me. The fact is, now I have noticed that those same people often don't make the parse. I have since started requesting a zonewide parse at the end of the raids....and guess what?  My zone wide has been first or second every time.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Tonight I went to Deathtoll for the first time, and was the top parser zonewide. I beat out a ranger, 2 assasins, a necro, a conji, and another wizzy. My zonewide dps was only a little over 1k, but at least I was on the top. So, I retract my statement that our DPS is too low. However, I still want to be able to levetate corpses....even more after that deathtoll raid.

[daray]

If you are looking for some ideas on increasing your DPS, the following thread may offer some advice:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=382836" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Maximisng DPS as a raid wizard.</a>

[ailees]

<cite>Zabom wrote:</cite><blockquote> Tonight I went to Deathtoll for the first time, and was the top parser zonewide. ...My zonewide dps was only a little over 1k, but at least I was on the top.</blockquote>if your guild is at that stage, 1K is good, no way for you to go to 2K+ right now. You need more training, more equipment, from all : the higher the raiders are the higher your own dps is.

[Raca]

I'd have to agree with Zabom. My main is a bruiser and I rarely group with a wiz that can out parce me and quite often group with wizards that I do 2-3x their dps. That almost NEVER happens with rogues. Rangers for some reason seem to suck too. Now this is solely grouping. I havent gotten to raiding yet. Btw, I'm almost fully mastered with bo of flowing blood and mastercrafted. I just think you really shouldnt have to strugle so much to put out some decent dps.

[Supernova17]

<cite>Raca wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd have to agree with Zabom. My main is a bruiser and I rarely group with a wiz that can out parce me and quite often group with wizards that I do 2-3x their dps. That almost NEVER happens with rogues. Rangers for some reason seem to suck too. Now this is solely grouping. I havent gotten to raiding yet. Btw, I'm almost fully mastered with bo of flowing blood and mastercrafted. I just think you really shouldnt have to strugle so much to put out some decent dps.</blockquote>They're unlikely to hit those numbers in a group, especially missing key buffs and debuffs that a properly balanced raid offers. Good Bruisers can hit decent numbers on a raid, but a good Pred/Rouge/Sorc/Sum should always be ahead of them as they have higher damage potential.

[mcavellero]

<p>after leveling 2 wizards, necro, and assa I can tell you that yes wizards can DPS but they are very reliant on an <u>illusionist and troub to up DPS</u> and <u>pally(amends) and coercer (for HL-24) hate decrease</u>.  That's four classes the wizard needs to get to the top of that parse...  Yes it is a little unfair.  With my necro and assa I benefit from say a dirge, illus, and inquis but am not reliant on them where my wizard is Reliant to have a place at the top.</p><p>however buffs like the +20% illus casting speed buff will actually benefit a summoner more especially with + chance proc grp spells and adornments active...because they can cast more spells in less time...therefore more spell casting=more procs...better benefit...</p><p> O and for the person that mentioned Vanguard sorcs being high DPS...it's no joke!  They rock!  </p>

[daray]

<cite>mcavellero wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>after leveling 2 wizards, necro, and assa I can tell you that yes wizards can DPS but they are very reliant on an <u>illusionist and troub to up DPS</u> and <u>pally(amends) and coercer (for HL-24) hate decrease</u>.  That's four classes the wizard needs to get to the top of that parse...  Yes it is a little unfair.  With my necro and assa I benefit from say a dirge, illus, and inquis but am not reliant on them where my wizard is Reliant to have a place at the top.</p><p>however buffs like the +20% illus casting speed buff will actually benefit a summoner more especially with + chance proc grp spells and adornments active...because they can cast more spells in less time...therefore more spell casting=more procs...better benefit...</p><p> O and for the person that mentioned Vanguard sorcs being high DPS...it's no joke!  They rock!  </p></blockquote>Actually, wizards really only need a troub to manage hate - if you need more than that, you should probably fault the tank or the tank group setup.Also, time compression benefits sorcerers more than summoners - and it has nothing to do with the number of spells you cast. Also keep in mind that summoners (esp conjurors) will be running with their spell casting times near or at cap, and as such wont see much benefit from TC.And finally more spells cast does not mean more procs. Procs are not based on the number of spells you cast - they are normalized to base casting time. The only things that affect proc rates are proc chance modifiers (propagation, blessings, luck of the dirge, ancestry), and spell haste (since it is calculated against base casting times).