my X4 epic pug experience

[sindarin]

<p>so I went and joined an epic X4 group because..well I'd never taken down this mob before and AA is AA experience. And I don't really have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, due to RL being more of a priority <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> so.....</p><p>8:30....joined RAID group from a shout, "we only need a few more" (sounded good at the time)</p><p>8:35 noticed that there was 1 full group and myself and 2 others in second group...<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>9:00 More joining (OK will stick around things might just happen)</p><p>9:45 someone running around (hoping around) accidently aggros the epic, and we wipe... thanks jerk!</p><p>10:30 Try again with 3 groups.....wipe.... </p><p>11:15, more join, another wipe</p><p>12:30 am, 4 full groups, including a group full of 70's mentored down to correct level to get mob to con to everyone. </p><p>1:00 am victory, and loot distribution</p><p> now heres what I don't like and don't get</p><p>1) This wasn't fun...it sucked. (boring lame, and un exciting, and the fight..well... it was just a lot of effects blended together, with very little "show" I much prefer better small group combat. </p><p>2) The loot drops...were really not that great (granted I know drops can be amazing in raids)</p><p>3)  The AA XP was disappointing. </p><p>4) I noticed in my guild there was no log that I'd fought and helped defeat an X4</p><p>(I guess the guild turned that one off or something.... or maybe epics don't get logged)</p><p>anyway if sony is listening....... heres what I'd like to see</p><p>1) Better AA experience</p><p>2) Better reward for ALL that participated in the fight. </p>

[Kizee]

<p>What reward do you expect for defeating a x4 one time? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>You expect to gear up 24 people per kill or something?</p>

[Uumuuanu]

<p>Only 4 hours to get a pickup raid together not bad IMO.  We have all been there.  HA there are days we can't even get everyone in our OWN raids let alone a pickup raid.</p><p>As for the AA, its all about the named.  Once you are post about 70 aa, expect the experience to CREEP along.  I found myself mentoring as low as 30 to go kill named just for the AA.</p><p>And the uber loots,  Nah,  who wants that.  Besides, you have slightly over 4% chance that it is something you could use.  Hmm, thats better then winning the lotto though.</p>

[bindekgnome]

<p>Yeah, and you didn't give very many details as to  the situation so I can't really tell you why it sucked. I mean how were the people geared, did they know eachother, etc etc. And what the mob is, there's a reason people raid 3 times a week (usually just 1 day if you're in a hardcore guild) it's not instant gratification. Consider this, MMIS has 6 mobs, that's 6-12 items per raid. And it's alot more for KoS zones.</p><p> And besides, it's a pickup raid. That tells you alot right there <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> People work months finding harmony between 24 others, i'm pretty sure those people just sucked.</p><p>p.s your guild has epic kills off.</p>

[interstellarmatter]

<p>So, now that you got your feet wet. Try some more.  Not every raid is going to give you something.   In fact, since you only killed one mob, you would of been lucky to get anything.  I've done 3 2 hour raids this past week and walked away with nothing but repair bills.  Just the luck of the draw.</p><p>And raiding is not for everyone.  Some people hate it..others like it.  Just a personal perference.</p>

[Kalvaine]

Sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience for your first pickup "raid". I haven't done many raids but your experience doesn't seem to be the norm, luckily. Just the other day on the Everfrost server, someone was calling out for more to take down Moog the Exiled (x2). After hearing the call a couple more times, I was finally coaxed to end my tradeskilling early and see if I could help. It only took about 20 minutes or so after the first channel call to assemble two full groups and shortly after, Moog was lying dead in the desert. Just for kicks we headed over to Meathooks (x3) and defeated him about 10 minutes later. I was very happy with the swiftness of the kills, however both Epics just dropped Treasured chests, which was of course extremely disappointing.When it comes to pug raids, you're throwing a bunch of people together that may or may not have good skills. If you're lucky enough to get into a good raiding guild, I'm sure those raids would go alot smoother, given their experience with such things.

[fbi]

This is pretty much representative of every pug raid I've done which, granted, haven't been many. The biggest factor is just how long it takes to get everyone together. The (highly annoying) "hoppers" are ubiquitous. After that, unless you happen to be the MT, MA or main healer, the fights are usually brief and unremarkable: It is much more challenging -- by an order of magnitude -- duoing heroic content in non-fabled gear. I've never done these things for the loot so I've not paid attention to the drops  -- I do them for quest completion (and once for AA.)

[Novusod]

Don't judge raiding until you have gone on your first real raid around level 60 in courts. Courts has a dozen named in total that are worth more than a whole AA point. Almost everyone who attends will get something: either armor, a master, or rares. Courts raids are usually done by mostly 70s in small guilds farming the named for status. When you hit 70 there will be a lot more raiding options for quick moving pugs including: Labs, Lyceum, HoS, and even Deathtoll and MoA4.

[Asif]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't judge raiding until you have gone on your first real raid around level 60 in courts. Courts has a dozen named in total that are worth more than a whole AA point. Almost everyone who attends will get something: either armor, a master, or rares. Courts raids are usually done by mostly 70s in small guilds farming the named for status. When you hit 70 there will be a lot more raiding options for quick moving pugs including: Labs, Lyceum, HoS, and even Deathtoll and MoA4.</blockquote>Aye Novusod is bang on with that raiding does get better<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Xova]

<cite>sindarin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>so I went and joined an epic X4 group because..well I'd never taken down this mob before and AA is AA experience. And I don't really have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, due to RL being more of a priority <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>One thing I wanted to comment on was your last statement here. You imply that those that raid must not make RL a priority. As an officer in a raiding guild, it really bugs me to see that people have this perception that in order to raid you have to give up "real life". This is simply not so. We have real lives too - we just manage to balance our real lives with out online time effectively enough so that we can commit time to raiding.</p><p>As for the rest, I'll echo the sentiments of those before me: it was a pickup raid - what more can you expect? Raiding doesn't mean you go and grab the biggest number of people you can and go whack a mob until it dies. Different raid encounters require different setups and different classes. Raids also require that you get 24 people working well as a team. Like someone else mentioned it's hard enough to do that with 24 people that are guilded and play together daily, let alone a pickup group of 24 people that probably aren't familiar with each other at all.</p><p>As for AA, you can't expect to get a huge amount of AA experience off of a single raid mob. You might get a nice percentage chunk, but that's about it. And with the loot, out of 24 people in the raid, less than a few people will actually be able to take advantage of the loot that is dropped. And believe me - not all raids drop uber loot. Just wait until you're on a Labs raid and <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=125830" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Rak'leklo, Runeblade of the Doomflight</a> drops for the 367th time. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Plus raiding is no guarantee you'll even get loot. Like someone above mentioned, I've walked away from some raids with nothing but broken gear and a 30g repair bill - that's just the way it works sometimes. But other times I've come away from raids where every other mob was dropping relic and the nameds dropped amazing gear.</p><p>You had a bad experience with a pickup group - it happens. Don't let that be the standard that you judge raiding as a whole by. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>My first raid nobody knew what they were doing. We wiped maybe 7 or 8 times before we killed it. The loot? 1 treasured orb that was worse than anything people already had. It was the Windstalker Rumbler - one of the easiest epics in the world. </p><p>It gets better. I'm no raider but keep at it. I've done maybe 20 or so raids since then (T4 and up) and gained 3 items in total. Good stuff though.</p>

[Vatec]

Honestly, I haven't had a bad raiding experience yet.  I've done most of the low-level ones except for Ladon, I've done all the epics in EL except for Cragshell (or whatever the heck its name is).  I've seen drama over loot once or twice (no one present could actually use the loot so it became a greedfest with everyone wanting stuff to sell on the broker), but I've never seen an x2 raid take more than an hour to organize and I've never seen a pick-up raid wipe (except for the one in Everfrost where we decided to try Spirit of Vox even though she was orange; we didn't expect to win, but at least we got her into the orange before we wiped).  I'm sure I will see bad things at some point, but hey, that happens with pick-up groups as well.I'll agree that purely from a gameplay perspective, there's not much to see.  The MT is usually inside the mob, all the melee DPS is behind it, and the healers, nukers, and Rangers are at maximum range lobbing damage.  But then again, I spend about half the time in an instance looking at a mass of meleers and mobs all bunched together with damage numbers popping out the top of the pile.  Frankly, the only time I really get to =see= what's going on is when I'm soloing ;^)Like everything else in the game, raiding isn't for everyone.  But I wouldn't let one bad experience turn you off.  Like someone else said, for a good example of how a raid can be, try a Courts raid.  I've noticed that these usually consist of a core group from the same guild (or at least who've worked together before) and a few outsiders to fill the gaps.  That puts you at least one notch ahead of a random pick-up raid for some mid-level contested as far as organization.

[Noaani]

<cite>sindarin wrote:</cite> <blockquote>8:30....joined RAID group from a shout, "we only need a few more" (sounded good at the time) <p>8:35 noticed that there was 1 full group and myself and 2 others in second group...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>9:00 More joining (OK will stick around things might just happen)</p><p>9:45 someone running around (hoping around) accidently aggros the epic, and we wipe... thanks jerk!</p><p>10:30 Try again with 3 groups.....wipe.... </p><p>11:15, more join, another wipe</p><p>12:30 am, 4 full groups, including a group full of 70's mentored down to correct level to get mob to con to everyone. </p><p>1:00 am victory, and loot distribution</p></blockquote><p>4 and a half hours to form a raid and kill a single mob? thats why raiding with a guild or an organised alliance is so much better. that is more than long enough to raid ALL EoF content except EH if you are organised.</p><blockquote>now heres what I don't like and don't get <p>1) This wasn't fun...it sucked. (boring lame, and un exciting, and the fight..well... it was just a lot of effects blended together, with very little "show" I much prefer better small group combat. </p></blockquote><p>A raid of level 70s mentored down to kill a T5 mob will be boring, as a level 70 mentored to level 50 is considerably stronger than a natural level 50 character (it had to be T5 or lower, as the only x4 mobs in the game that require mentoring to con to a level 70 are from T5 down). This would mean you may well have totally missed some aspects of the fight. </p><p>AEs would be negligable to you, whereas they may well have wiped a level 50 raid. Aggeo switchs would have been nothing, as a level 70 tank (even mentored) has far more tools to regain aggro than a level 50 tank does. DPS burn fights are easier, as level 70 DPS mentored to 50 do a considerable amount more DPS than level 50 DPS classes.</p><blockquote>2) The loot drops...were really not that great (granted I know drops can be amazing in raids) </blockquote><p>he loot was at least 20 levels below you, more likely 27 - 30 levels below you, what did you expect?</p><blockquote>3)  The AA XP was disappointing. </blockquote><p>For four and a half hours, I bet it was. Remember though, if it was propperly organised, it would have been 15 minutes from formup to calling home. I'd wager you'd have been happy with the AA xp if that was the case.</p><blockquote>4) I noticed in my guild there was no log that I'd fought and helped defeat an X4 <p>(I guess the guild turned that one off or something.... or maybe epics don't get logged)</p></blockquote><p>Your guild leader sets what does and does not show on the guild event log. Have a look at the event filters tab in the guild window to see what is and is not shown for your guild. </p><blockquote>anyway if sony is listening....... heres what I'd like to see <p>1) Better AA experience</p><p>2) Better reward for ALL that participated in the fight. </p></blockquote><p>I agree. I have killed roughly 30 T7 epic named mobs in the last week. I have not recieved a single item from any of them. I think SoE should make it so i get an item for every single epic named kill. So I get 30 fabled items from last week, another 30 this week, another 30 the week after... I'm going to love this idea...</p><p>/sarcasm off</p><p>One of the reasons pickup raids fail is simply because raiding is not only about getting yourself equipped. Pickup raids, as well as pickup groups, are full of people there for no reason other than themselves.</p><p>In order for a raid to be considered successful, the raid as a whole has to understand that they are there to gain equipment upgrades for the raid as a whole. If you enter in to a given raid expecting to get an upgrade, you are very very likely to be disapointed.</p><p>Guilds that raid have this build in for the most part, the guild raids, and a guild member gets the reward. When you see someone in your guild get a reward for work that the whole guild has done, yourself included, it is as much a success for yourself as it would be had you yourself obtained the item.</p><p>In short, pickup raids (with a very few exceptions) are the single worst experiance this game has to offer. They are like pickup groups that are 4 times more likely to be bad, and 4 times worse when they are bad.</p><p>If you really want to experiance raiding to see if it is something you would consider, try asking an organised raiding guild that raids at a time you are online, they may let you come along to see if you enjoy it in a more structured environment.</p>

[Noaani]

<cite>Xova wrote:</cite> <blockquote>One thing I wanted to comment on was your last statement here. You imply that those that raid must not make RL a priority. As an officer in a raiding guild, it really bugs me to see that people have this perception that in order to raid you have to give up "real life". This is simply not so. We have real lives too - we just manage to balance our real lives with out online time effectively enough so that we can commit time to raiding.</blockquote><p>Agreed.</p><p>Some people manage to find a few hours at the same time every week to participate in sports, or to watch their favourate show on TV, or to play poker, or any number of other organised activities.</p><p>Do these people put their activities before real life?</p><p>In the same manner that some people are able to commit to these activities, others are able to commit a given timeslot of their week to raiding in EverQuest.</p><p>In all honesty, most raid guilds would require less of your time than most sport clubs would.</p><p>A large portion of non raiders think raiding takes up so much time simply because of experiances similar to the OP, they dont realise that with organisation, an activity that took 270 minutes would have taken 15 minutes had they been organised.</p><p>They also see all these known top end raiders chatting on their server chat channels at all times of the day and night, and think that this is what is required for a raider.</p>