what advantages do mystics have over defiler on raids?

[Siclone]

I am just curious, Defilers are by raid leaders considered a must have,,,but mystics are not.Defilers have huge hp boost to MT and better debufs,,,so why play a mystic on raids?just curious, I don't know much about mystics

[ecoskii]

<p>search for 2 seconds and you will find interminable numbers of mystic v defiler threads... the short version - they do buff hp more but 'so what', and debuffs are very similar.  Either can kill any mob in the game ... the only 2 things I wished i had was a 'cure when stunned' and the defiler mana-making abilities, but i'm glad i don't have their sucky dps or have to live in freep</p>

[Siclone]

I did read a thread about mystics and defilers, but did not get a clear answer.do you know how many hp's a defiler buffs the mt?  Cause its enough for a MT to say a Defiler is a must, and by no means have I ever heard "so what"  ...ever....its normally,,,,no we cant do that tonight cause we need a defiler, when I look in the raid window there are two mystics siting there,,,,,and I was told their debuffs where better,,,,but if you answer is they do better dps,,ok,,thats a reason,,,,but by no means am I slamming mystics, I don't  know,,I am just trying to find out cause I am leveling a Defiler and i like the general game knowledge. ((after searching more I did find a couple of more and it seems a touchy subject so, its cool I don't want to stir anything up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />))

[Rayche]

Not sure what you're looking for really.A raid will do just fine with either class. In fact, adding a defiler instead of a Mystic or visa-versa won't impact your raid noticeably. (Having NO Shaman will hurt your raid noticeably however.Assuming they're all mastered out the defiler will buff around 400-500 hit points more than the Mystic. The Mystic will buff power though to an equal degree over the Defiler. (Tanks out of power kill raids as well.)It's a wash really. It boils down to who's behind the keyboard.Any raid that says Defilers "Belong" in the MT group, or take Defilers over Mystics without knowing either player is just lazy.

[Thatdumbg]

Preach on, I agree 100 percent.However, a skilled player can be more effective with a Defiler (especially talking about main tank groups) then the same player playing a Mystic. By effective, I mean healing more and managing power better (on fights where that actually matters nowadays, its a cakewalk even on avatars it seems).That statement is based upon my experiences before and after betrayal from Mystic to Defiler, and as of late my partner as well. Sometimes people just want to eke out that extra 3 or 4 percent, its what end-game maximization is all about.

[schmee]

<p>to the OP: torpor, oberon and bolster - often not considered advantages (because they aren't well understood generally, even among mystics), and things that do not put you in the MT group by default. they can really save the day tho in the right situations. </p><p>i play a coercer and a mystic in raids and, different to the coercer who is usually locked to the MT group, i like the flexibility the mystic has in being just as effective and interesting to play outside the MT, as they are in it.</p>

[Baccalarium]

Only just learned... although the mystic group cure covers noxious and arcane,   the defiler one is noxious and trauma.    I know plenty of spots where the arcane is needed, though plate healers can group cure it too.  

[Terrius]

Defilers bring more HPs, however if a tank says "we cant do it without a defiler" and you have 2 mystics.. that tank needs to be kicked in the butt. Mystics bring Alot more raw healing power to a group than defilers, they also bring oberon/oberon barrier (a massive ward that replenishes half ever 2 seconds) Topor(massive heal over time) and Bolster which if you have 2 mystics with the AA for increased time, can basically be up on the tank through the entire fight giving 20% more hitpoints than normal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Defilers arnt without their advantages however, But as a Pally MT i swear by my Mystics, I use defilers if there arnt any mystics, but IMO The extra hitpoints defilers give are more useful for an offtank than the MT, and Mystics healing powers are hard too beat <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> all IMO ofcourse

[SnAke19]

looking at defiler vs mystici<b>n preventing dmg/healing terms</b> we are nearly the same (looking only on parses defilers will have the upper hand-because of putting out more wards which are always counted first - but with mystics 3% triggerchance, reactive, agi/str (Avatar) , temporary boosted stats through bolster i would say we are about even)i<b>n terms of debuffing</b> also nearly even (some triggered one of defiler is grplimited-Mystic since eof often resist problems)<b>in terms of power</b> defiler supperior (mystic nothing to lower power costs or regain power - in fights taking longer usually oom-would say thats the biggest problem for mystics at the moment looking on the fact the soe is planning to make fights longer and longer)<b>in buffing hp</b> (defiler about 500 +/- more depending on how much sta tank already has-with bolster mystic buffs more but only about half the time)<b>terms of curing</b> - I would say Defiler has the upper hand looking on the fact that his selfcure becomes with eof to a very important spell even there is the fact that mystic has better cures (cure more effects per use + wards if spect in eof tree) but being stuned useless<b>in terms of dmg</b> - there are mystics doing 1500+ dps since eof but only with good weapon- str/proc gear and suited grpsetupputing all together i would say its best to have both clases in raid - looking on the fact that defiler has more grp limited abilities and with canibalism no power probs defiler is after all the better choice for mt grp<b>special wards</b> Mystic has with Oberon Barrier a very powerful self regenerating ward wich is nearly casted instant but stuns which is grp limited                        Defiler with Soulward a real huge ward without being stuned which works raidwidelooking on the fact that mystics is grp limited defilers not it could also be of advantage for max heal puting the myst in mt grp

[knightofround]

Defilers ward better than Mystics do. Your badger healing pet is a joke compared to a defiler's spiritual circle. Bolster is fantastic largely because of the +% HP, but the HP it grants is temporary...the extra HPs from the defiler are permanent. Oberon is a joke since it's group-only; especially when you consider that with Forced Cannibalize, every Defiler gets a free FT 50-70 depending upon their spell level. The only time you'd use Oberon is when your OOP, and a defiler in the same spot wouldn't be OOP and still be chugging out the group wards.Defiler direct heals are more mana efficient because they cost a portion of our health; and with a self regen buff of 102, we never worry about the health cost at lvl 70.Another thing to consider is spell consolidation. Defilers have fewer debuffs, but the quality of each one is higher. Mystics spend much more casting time getting out their debuffs than defilers do. When both classes unload their debuffs, they both do approximately the same...the difference is that the defiler will get done quicker.Don't get me wrong, Mystics have plenty of things going for them that Defilers don't. Defilers are basically useless outside of the MT group; Mystics can still buff offensive stats, sling bolster to MT and ancestry on someone in their group, utilize all their debuffs, be the best cure-er in the game if they spec for it, *and* do great DPS for a healer. Defilers can't do any of these things.But Defilers do ward and preserve mana better =)

[Ordate]

<cite>knightofround wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Defilers ward better than Mystics do.<span style="color: #ffff00;">Straight wards we are fairly similar.</span> Your badger healing pet is a joke compared to a defiler's spiritual circle. <span style="color: #ffff00;">Agreed</span>Bolster is fantastic largely because of the +% HP, but the HP it grants is temporary...<span style="color: #ffff00;">Partially.  I like it also on the MT early on because even though they may be close to cap and the returns arent great, capped str gives a little more initial agro, capped agi gives a little more avoidance etc.  But yes largely it is a hp thing.</span>the extra HPs from the defiler are permanent.<span style="color: #ffff00;">True</span> Oberon is a joke since it's group-only;<span style="color: #ffff00;">If you look at it as it sucking because it is group only, you would also have to say the same of tendrils for defilers.  But in the "slot" a mystic normally fills, I agree that it does suck for that purpose.</span>especially when you consider that with Forced Cannibalize, every Defiler gets a free FT 50-70 depending upon their spell level. <span style="color: #ffff00;">Cannibalize is deffinately something to be jealous of.</span>The only time you'd use Oberon is when your OOP, and a defiler in the same spot wouldn't be OOP and still be chugging out the group wards.<span style="color: #ffff00;">Falso.  It is great for flashing to catch a bit of damage (again cross raid would make it much better)</span>Defiler direct heals are more mana efficient because they cost a portion of our health; and with a self regen buff of 102, we never worry about the health cost at lvl 70.<span style="color: #ffff00;">Trust me, this is one of the areas I look at SOE and go [Removed for Content]?</span>Another thing to consider is spell consolidation. Defilers have fewer debuffs, but the quality of each one is higher. Mystics spend much more casting time getting out their debuffs than defilers do. When both classes unload their debuffs, they both do approximately the same...the difference is that the defiler will get done quicker.<span style="color: #ffff00;">I'm not sure what spell consolidation has to do with anything... that is something that would likely help mystics more then defilres... Defiler gets done quicker in some cases.  Mystics have some perks defilers have some perks.  Prior to getting screwed on AA trees (rez line) we were pretty much deadlocked on these.</span>Don't get me wrong, Mystics have plenty of things going for them that Defilers don't. Defilers are basically useless outside of the MT group;<span style="color: #ffff00;">Disagree.  Defilers are still a shaman and still highly useful outside of the MT group.</span>Mystics can still buff offensive stats, sling bolster to MT and ancestry on someone in their group, utilize all their debuffs, be the best cure-er in the game if they spec for it, *and* do great DPS for a healer. Defilers can't do any of these things.But Defilers do ward and preserve mana better =)</p></blockquote>