For those who hate the buckler

[TrevHolio]

<p>Im just wondering what is the most common / best built for those of us that hate the buckler line.</p>

[Buggrit]

i hear str and agi line are decent especially for ae agro?

[Naq'Jundax]

STR-INT  or AGI-INT.Str for +10% hate and crits or agi line for more defense and nice end ability which will help u and ur group stay alive in some situations...Int line for Acceleration strike, haste, +parry and, of course, the end ability for reduced skill timers.Agi-Int is the best defensive aa spec, but if u feel u need more hate gain, grab STR instead of Agi.

[Terron]

EQ2 is a game not a job. The aim should be to have fun. If using a buckler spoils the fun then that is a perfectly good and logical reason not to use that line. Even if you don't value role playing critizing others for apply such considerations within a RPG is illogical. I use STR/AGI because my guard's character was created before the buckler line and using a buckler does not fit it. I have found the end ability of STR to be good for soloing which I do a lot. I tried INT, but found I prefer AGI.

[Pelda]

I went down STR/AGI and haven't regretted it one bit.  Dragoon is awesome to have especially now that they lowered the recast.

[Bramwe]

I would go either Str/Wis for the crits and the final Wisdom ability or Str/Int for the crits and haste/reduction in reuse times.

[Muraha]

I dont hate buckler I think it is a superb line, especially if you have a good buckler like Buckler of the Howler. I am not specced that way currently as our guild is progressing through Emerald Halls at present and I find the end line ability on the agi line fantastic when I get into trouble. I look forward to the day that I am as welll geared as some of our top tanks and we know better what to expect from these difficult encounters. When we do these encounters more and more I dont expect I will need that ability any more and I can move back to STA line again for better dps. IMO the STR line, at least as far as the hate gain, is an absolute must for any serious raid tank.

[Docimodo]

<p>Well I think we can pretty much all agree that having Str 448 is the starting point for 99% of typical builds</p><p>I find the whole int line to be hawtness after that if you can't/won't go with a buckler</p>

[Khurghan]

Um how long is a piece of string?So much depends on so many factors. What is your normal set-up for your MT group? What are you tanking? What is your gear like? Do you have issues with survivability? do you have issues with aggro?

[Muraha]

<cite>Khurghan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Um how long is a piece of string?</blockquote>About twice as long as it is from the middle to one end??   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[spa]

<p>STR/AGI here, Guardians that use Buckler spec its only for extra dps ie more aggro. But from my experiance it doesnt matter if you do about 1k with Tower or upto 2k with Buckler i still hold aggro all the same.</p><p>Im 1 of 2 Guards in my guild, i use Tower and the other Guard has Buckler. I may do 1k dps in def stance while the Buckler Guard in off stance does 1.7k dps and the aggro isnt much differant with similar hate buffs, holding aggro of upto around 40k against higher level epic single mobs. The only real differance is the healers prefer me tanking as i take less spike damage and so they can dps more... so im like whats the point in being buckler spec if the overall raid dps isnt much differant? Screw it, i stay Tower and do what im there to do - take the hits. Unlike Zerkers which is pretty obvious what SoE have them in game for is to do massive dps and aoe aggro with almost no defensive abilities.</p><p>My guilds MT group nearly always has 3 healers, 2 hate toons and me using a Tower. Alot of guilds ive heard use 2 healers, 3 hate toons while their Guardian uses Buckler spec. Raid dps is no differant or next to nothing in it.</p><p>But thats just my thoughts. As someone else said its true that <i>"So much depends on so many factors. What is your normal set-up for your MT group? What are you tanking? What is your gear like? Do you have issues with survivability? do you have issues with aggro?"</i> </p><p>I used to have AGI/INT before the recent changes to achievements were made some LU's ago, i had some aggro issues and other tanks were telling me i should drop the INT line for STR instead because INT sucks, so i did to try it out. I didnt see much differance in aggro, the only real differance is i had better auto-attack damage and doing less CA spammage with ToS/rescue/reinforcement on slightly longer recasts. But since then ive gained some better gear and aggro is good enough or ok now.</p>

[PaganSaint]

The only other viable option DPS wise is to DW and going Str/Agi: 448 Int: 485, also lets you swap into a tower and tank well enough when needed.As far as tanking goes, Str/Int works very well.

[Bramwe]

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only other viable option DPS wise is to DW and going Str/Agi: 448 Int: 485, also lets you swap into a tower and tank well enough when needed.As far as tanking goes, Str/Int works very well.</blockquote>I wonder how well dual wield would work.  I still have my respec card.  I think I might try 448 Sta and parse 10-15 fights with only auto attacking and buckler reversal.  Then try 448 Str while dual wielding, auto attacking and only using the Executioners Wrath CA to make up for Buckler reversal and see how they compare.   No one ever posts parse data so the only way to really be sure is to try it out.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<cite>Bramwell@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only other viable option DPS wise is to DW and going Str/Agi: 448 Int: 485, also lets you swap into a tower and tank well enough when needed.As far as tanking goes, Str/Int works very well.</blockquote>I wonder how well dual wield would work.  I still have my respec card.  I think I might try 448 Sta and parse 10-15 fights with only auto attacking and buckler reversal.  Then try 448 Str while dual wielding, auto attacking and only using the Executioners Wrath CA to make up for Buckler reversal and see how they compare.   No one ever posts parse data so the only way to really be sure is to try it out. </blockquote><p>I tried str/agi/int with Grim Brimstone Hammer and Serrated Sword of Retribution, versus str/sta/int with GBH + buckler of the howler and the DPS is broadly similar on a single target, with the buckler spec generally being slightly higher. A very good offhand would probably tip it in favor of dual wield, but sadly most good 1H weapons are primary slot only. For AE fights I still found 2H+agi to be highest DPS; the AE autoattack seems to be primary weapon only.</p><p>I didn't ultimately see it being worth the loss of avoidance to dual wield for roughly the same DPS; you don't get that much avoidance from a buckler admittedly but if you add in the soulfire gladius it's at least 10% uncontested. In KoS I'm still happiest with a good 2H and the agi line for maximum AE aggro, but for EoF content buckler seems better.</p>

[Snorm]

<p>I just recently went from buckler of the howler to a Agi/Int tower build (using whatever the tower from FTH is called, for what it's worth). I hold aggro just fine, although my personal DPS is down substantially on non AE fights.</p><p>The pricipal diference is that I tank in offensive a lot more instead of pulling out the buckler. All I've really lost was the option of tanking with the buckler in offensive, and I find that offensive with a  tower gives better surviveability than def with a buckler did. I haven't felt the need to pull out DW or the 2 handers, largely cause I have no good 2 hander, and aggro is good enough that going DW would just be another 500 DPS or whatever at the cost of some damage control and healer DPS. And I'm lazy.</p><p>The crits from Str would bump DPS and hate a fair bit, particularly in offensive, but again, I'm not seeing aggro issues and I would have to give up a good block of parry or def to get them, not to mention the other benefits of whatever line I dropped. I always have a dirge/coercer in the MT group so the 10% hate would be a waste.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>