Undercutting people by 1 copper

[ladyvengeance]

I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior.

[Calthine]

I think you'll find there's a large population of players who won't buy from the 1c undercutters, lol.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I dont mind undercutting by 1cp but undercutting by 50% of the price is the thing that annoys me most. Put a master up for 3 plat (maybe a few gold under the previous seller) and someone puts one up at 1pp, undercutting by 2pp. </p><p>Makes my teeth grind. </p>

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind undercutting by 1cp but undercutting by 50% of the price is the thing that annoys me most. Put a master up for 3 plat (maybe a few gold under the previous seller) and someone puts one up at 1pp, undercutting by 2pp. </p><p>Makes my teeth grind. </p></blockquote>Yeah that annoys me as well, although if it's a good rare master I'll just buy it off them and sell them both for 3pp. I've made loads of money that way. People who put fabled items up and undercut me by as much as 10pp. Just buy them and sell them at a higher cost.

[greenmantle]

Its rude childish and hmm i think ive grouped with a few of them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Like calth i buy from the even priced person not the 1c undercutter

[Jrral]

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind undercutting by 1cp but undercutting by 50% of the price is the thing that annoys me most. Put a master up for 3 plat (maybe a few gold under the previous seller) and someone puts one up at 1pp, undercutting by 2pp. </p></blockquote>My attitude on it is "If you're going to undercut, then by the gods <i>undercut</i>!". If I don't think something's worth 3p, I'm not going to waste time pulling the price down 1g, or even 10g, at a time.

[Cadori Seraphim]

Yeah I wont buy from those who undercut 1copper lol thats just rude.

[Vatec]

Depends on the item.  Harvestables, every penny counts as a seller or a buyer.  Big ticket items, I generally price to match the lowest and then drop the price by 10% (rounded as needed) every couple of days until it sells.  I never, ever match someone who undercuts me, though I'll occasionally buy one of them out.  If I kept trying to match or beat other players' prices, I'd be doing nothing but standing at the broker all day....And yes, I am sometimes mystified by other players' pricing "strategies."  Carbonite clusters are selling for 20sp.  All of a sudden, someone will dump 300 on the market for 10sp.  What on earth are they thinking?  19sp, sure.  15sp, maybe.  But 10sp?  Are they operating out of some misguided desire to help out the "little guy" or something?  *shrug*

[Josgar]

Whats wrong with undercutting? Especially if you are selling only one of them. I dont want the item and want to get rid of it, I sell it. The end. If I wanted to I could bloody sell it for a copper. I dont see what the big deal is. Its supply, demand, and somewhat marketing rolled into one that makes the economy flow. I however am more likely to buy from people who have more than one of them. More convenient for a stack.

[Soefoe]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whats wrong with undercutting? Especially if you are selling only one of them. I dont want the item and want to get rid of it, I sell it. The end. If I wanted to I could bloody sell it for a copper. I dont see what the big deal is. Its supply, demand, and somewhat marketing rolled into one that makes the economy flow. I however am more likely to buy from people who have more than one of them. More convenient for a stack.</blockquote>Its just plain "RUDE"....I am now getting into the Adept III spells and some of them require very rare components to make...I spend ALL weekend farming components for these spells and put them in the broker at a price to compensate for my TIME/EFFORT and Lost XP and when I make a rare spell that I feel is worth 15 gold in the broker I don't want to see some idiot listing it for 20 silver.  (which is exactly what happened to me last week) 

[Menji]

<cite>Soefoe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whats wrong with undercutting? Especially if you are selling only one of them. I dont want the item and want to get rid of it, I sell it. The end. If I wanted to I could bloody sell it for a copper. I dont see what the big deal is. Its supply, demand, and somewhat marketing rolled into one that makes the economy flow. I however am more likely to buy from people who have more than one of them. More convenient for a stack.</blockquote>Its just plain "RUDE"....I am now getting into the Adept III spells and some of them require very rare components to make...I spend ALL weekend farming components for these spells and put them in the broker at a price to compensate for my TIME/EFFORT and Lost XP and when I make a rare spell that I feel is worth 15 gold in the broker I don't want to see some idiot listing it for 20 silver.  (which is exactly what happened to me last week)  </blockquote>Well look at it this way, they did you a favor, you buy them out and list it for 15 gold and go xp'ing.

[Thuriel]

<p>There's nothing wrong with undercutting by 1cp. It's done in the real world. Echoes of Faydwer sells fo $39.99 instead of $40.</p><p>The problem is that those who undercut by 1cp don't know how to do it properly. The undercut is done more for psychological impact than offering actual savings. For example $9.99 has a big impact versus $10 since people tend to just see $9 and consider it a lower pricing tier. $11.99 versus $12 has very little impact since people think they're in the same pricing tier.</p><p>In the game, unless you take broker fees into account, the 1cp undercutting strategy falls flat and just looks rude and stupid.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind undercutting by 1cp but undercutting by 50% of the price is the thing that annoys me most. Put a master up for 3 plat (maybe a few gold under the previous seller) and someone puts one up at 1pp, undercutting by 2pp. </p><p>Makes my teeth grind. </p></blockquote>Yeah that annoys me as well, although if it's a good rare master I'll just buy it off them and sell them both for 3pp. I've made loads of money that way. People who put fabled items up and undercut me by as much as 10pp. Just buy them and sell them at a higher cost.</blockquote>I don't mean to insult you in any way, but I <i>really</i> hate it when you folks sell fabled items for an arm and a leg.  <i>Most</i> fabled stuff that is tradeable is the lower-end stuff, and takes relatively little effort to get.  I despise seeing things like the Sword of Pain, Shadowfire stuff, and Blacklotus BP on sale for 30-50 plat or more.  I buy from people selling it cheaper <i>just so the price gougers can't have the sale</i>.

[KKidrakSG]

<p>If you are competing with me for an item on the broker PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE UNDERCUT ME BY ONE COPPER!</p><p>Nothing makes me madder than when I am selling an item on the broker for a perfectly fair price and some jack you-know-what (JA for short) comes along and slashes my price by 90%.  Talk about rude.  The ruins my business and is akin to greifing in my opinion.  Does he really get anything from selling an item on the broker for the same price he could get from a vendor for the item?  NO!  Does he ruin my ability to make money on the same item by doing this?  YES!</p><p>On the other hand, if I have a mature competitor on the broker who makes gives a modest (and by "modest" I mean the smallest of increments 1c to 1s depending on the total price) price break to beat my price, I applaud him.  Granted, when I reprice my items I will repay the favor and leapfrog his price by a similarly small amount.  In so doing, we are both still earning fair profit for the work we have done.  It is when the aforementioned JA enters the scene and slashes our prices by a huge amount that we lose out.  Now you have two honest crafters trying to make a living who can either drop their prices so low that their profit margins become razor thin, or they can just stop selling the item.  I for one am not going to spend hours at the crafting table to make a few silver pieces per combine just because that JA is selling his product for 10 coppers more than the vendor gives.  I did not level my crafters to level 70 to work for pennies.</p><p>Now, I know that someone is going to come back and claim that my argument above has nothing to do with undercutting by one copper.  Well...let me elaborate for anyone in the audience with a <b><u>double-digit IQ</u></b>.</p><p>1.  Let's take for example a popular crafted item that sells for a fair price of 10G.  If I have a competitor or two who politely undercut my prices by just 1 silver, then I can come back and undercut them by the same 1 silver, and we all still make fair money for our work.</p><p>2.  Now let's take the same situation and throw a TURBO JA (TJA for short) into the mix.  We are all happily selling our crafted items for 10G, 9g 99s, 9g 98s, 9g97s, and so on.  Then the TJA throws a truckload of the same item on the broker for 8G.  Hmm.  That was a little annoying, but no big deal so far.  Myself and my mature competitors all comply with the newcomer into the market and price our items for 7g99s-ish.  That cuts into our profits a little, but it is not devastating.  Then the TJA discovers that we have adjusted to his entrance into the market and again slashes our prices, but only drops to 7g this time.  Mature sellers again adjust, more grumbling ensues.  TJA logs on again and slashes price to 5g.  Ok, this is really starting to blow now...but since we still need to eat, we all take the A-pounding and make our prices 4g99s.  The TJA will NOT be having this on HIS broker, so he finishes us off with a nice round price of 1g29s...the same price a vendor will give.  Thanks buddy, you just invalidated all the work us honest businessmen put into getting to 70 at all.</p><p>The moral of the story is, "Don't be a Turbo JA."</p><p>Undercutting by a copper (or a very small amount) is NOT childish or rude.  It is the exact polar opposite!  It preserves the integrity of the market.  Do do otherwise ruins the economy and invalidates the hard work of other gamers just like yourself.  <b><u>Please undercut me by a copper!</u></b>  If you do, I will be polite enough to do the same for you.</p>

[Miss_Jackie]

Are you people all on illegal substances or something? I thought we had the freedom to price items any way we wanted. Not some arbitrary crap that the rest of the schmucks set it to. If I wanna make it 1 copper less than yours, then by fcks sake, I will. So there. *sticks out tongue*

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior. </blockquote><p>Don't get too worked up...the people that undercut by 1c are not long in the game. It would take SO long to run through a stack of salesman's crates making sure you are best price.....by 1c. I would imagine they would soon lose the will to live and stop playing.</p><p>Now what REALLY annoys me is when it is MY guildmates that are undercutting ME by 1c! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[SugarGirl]

<p>I am an undercutter. I admit it openly and with pride. I farm fo rares and solo any named mobs that I can for loot. I sell the treasured stuff to the merchant and I stick any fabled/legendary and collection loot on the broker. Then I search each item on the broker and list it for under what the cheapest item is. If it is not on the broker I list it for some insane price. This insures I get the most I can for the rare stuff and then the rest of the stuff stays on the top of the list so that it will be bought first.</p><p>Every few days I go back to the broker and check the stuff I have listed. If I have been undercut by someone else, then I re-undercut them. Sooner or later, the prices on my stuff work theri way down to where someone looks up the item and finds that the price is actually reasonable. They buy it and I make coin. This is how a free market works. </p><p> I find it far ruder to to price all of your items at some insane price and then get mad when someone marks their for a lower price (whether it's 1 cp or 1 pp). Not a single one of us has been elected the governor of the EQ2 market and I don't think it's up to anyone to think that because they feel thier item is worth xx plat that EVERYONE should sell their item for the same price.</p><p>I also LOVE other undercutters. Even though they may undercut my stuff, they are also undercutting everyone else's stuf. That means if I need a rare for something and the current lowest price is 2pp, it's up to the undercutters to bring the price down to an affordable range.</p><p>This is how a free market works.. period. It's just silly to complain because someone is will to sell your item for less.</p>

[Vonotar]

If the crafting community had any sense it would form a 'tradeskill coalition' on each respective servers and persuade as many regular crafters as possible to adopt a pricing structure.That way they can focus on seeing where the demand is, checking the broker to see which items are currently under-represented and using their rares to make them, safe in the knowledge that most other regular crafters won't undercut you.In the real world this is known as price fixing, and is something that the supermarkets, airlines and other industries are constantly rapped on the knuckles for doing.  Considering the amount of money these industries make it's obviously a technique that works.Sure it's not a healthy market, but when 'wild undercutter' sells his AdeptIII or Mastercrafted item at half the price of the 'coalition' they can be comfortable in the fact that once the underpriced item is sold the market will return to their pricing... or they can just buy the item ;o)

[katalmach]

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior. </blockquote><p>Don't get too worked up...the people that undercut by 1c are not long in the game. It would take SO long to run through a stack of salesman's crates making sure you are best price.....by 1c. I would imagine they would soon lose the will to live and stop playing.</p><p>Now what REALLY annoys me is when it is MY guildmates that are undercutting ME by 1c! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't bet on it. I've played since release and I check and go through all my items for sale at least once a day. I've got three characters selling, two from mansions, and it takes hardly any time or effort at all to go through all my wares and undercut everybody else. I'm a seller, I want a quick turnaround and constant refreshment of wares, or my bags will be overflowing with stuff. I'm not going to match the price of the lowest on the broker if I think that slashing the price is going to help me sell quicker. I usually undercut by more than a copper, but I don't mind the people that do undercut by that little. It's really rather childish to consider it "rude" to undercut - this is a marketplace, not a playground. In real life, businesses not only undercut each other constantly, they also make adverts pointing out how much they are undercutting other people. Do you think that businesses like Sainsbury's start moping and whining about how ruuuude Tesco's are when the Tesco's adverts ("We have lower prices than Sainsbury's on over 3000 items!".) come on? Of course not.</p><p>Undercutting is just something you have to learn to deal with. It is a perfectly fair practice. You just have to learn when to undercut, when to leave your price as it is (you've got 500 coffees on the broker, someone undercuts you by 1 copper with a stack of 10 - no worries for you, your coffee will go soon enough), and when to hike the price right up. My carpenter has items up on the broker for several plat, that other people are selling for silver. Yet my items sell more often than you'd think, and I make lots more on ONE sell than the other carpenters made on 50!</p>

[cradeg]

<p>when i look for an item , i list the broker by price and buy the cheapest .... i do not care about undercutters or not , i just buy the cheapest and when i put something on my broker i make it the cheapest also , sometimes for 1c sometimes for more .... i just make sure to be cheaper <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Wilde_Night]

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the crafting community had any sense it would form a 'tradeskill coalition' on each respective servers and persuade as many regular crafters as possible to adopt a pricing structure.That way they can focus on seeing where the demand is, checking the broker to see which items are currently under-represented and using their rares to make them, safe in the knowledge that most other regular crafters won't undercut you.In the real world this is known as price fixing, and is something that the supermarkets, airlines and other industries are constantly rapped on the knuckles for doing.  Considering the amount of money these industries make it's obviously a technique that works.Sure it's not a healthy market, but when 'wild undercutter' sells his AdeptIII or Mastercrafted item at half the price of the 'coalition' they can be comfortable in the fact that once the underpriced item is sold the market will return to their pricing... or they can just buy the item ;o)</blockquote>Ha!  I've had people try that with me through mail.  You know what?  That gets my hackles up.  Please don't try to tell me how to price my items.  Don't tell me how to play.  If I see their name, I automatically undercut them.  Is it spiteful?  Yeah, but I'm Teir'Dal.  What can I say?

[sorinev]

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the crafting community had any sense it would form a 'tradeskill coalition' on each respective servers</blockquote>If I remember right, we had one of these on our server during the first several months of release on my server (Lavastorm, late 04, early 05). They weren't doing any of the evil and malicious stuff that happens in real life, I don't think, but it was a coalition. I think it was something like a lot of the dedicated and popular crafters made a crafters-only guild and had standard prices that they set for various items in each tier and for their personal services. I wasn't into crafting all that much at that time, but I remember finding the prices acceptable and fair. I don't know how well something like this would work today though, since crafting has gotten so easy (not a complaint!) that everyone's got their own crafters now.

[Ponos]

<p>I undercut by one copper piece because it is the most intelligent thing to do.  </p><p>As a seller, I want to be the first name the buyer looks at, and I want to do that by losing as little capital as possible (in the case of a purchase).  </p><p>If SOE designed it so that in order to appear before the next seller, you had to undercut by a margin of no less than 10%, then I would list all my items at prices 10% lower than the next seller in line. </p><p>It essentially is costing me 1 cp. per item to advertise, and that's great marketing!  </p><p>There is nothing <i>rude </i>about maximizing profit and the chances of making a sale.  Don't want to hurt your feelings, but I don't know you.  We are not friends.  </p><p>Free Market Enterprise is your friend, however, if you know how to treat it right. </p>

[Tremelle]

Sorry, but undercutting is not only normal economics, its natural condition of having 10-15 people selling the same item. If I place an item on the broker I have crafted, I know that someone else is probably making that same item and someone new will list that same item everyday, meaning if you are not the lowest price to start with, it maybe a long time before you sell that item. Waiting around for weeks to sell 1-3 items is not going to cut it. If there isn't a fast turn around, my stores and bags are going to get full fast . Now have much I decide to under cut, if I undercut, is my own business, it maybe 1c or it maybe 20plat.  The point is I am selling mi items close to a price I think is reasonable.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

LOL! Unfortunately this topic is a dead horse and I price to sell... 1cp is irritating but it happens.. biggest ones to do it are the known plat sellers on your server, well at least on AB. Do a search on here about price cutting, price gouging and you will see page after page of topics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kenazeer]

<p>Some of you all would hate me then. I put 88 different tier 3 mage and cleric App4s on the broker the other day for whatever the broker minimum was, think it was like 2.5 silver or so. I was levelling up on new recipes after having worked on a bunch of writs and would have just sold them to the vendor anyway. Buy them up and resell them if you have room, vendor them or destroy them if you don't. My thinking was that maybe a real newbie could use them, it would have taken too much time to price them individually anyway, and I will be needing the crate room so I don't want them to sit. </p><p>Undercutters by one copper though, poor form. </p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Miss_Jackie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you people all on illegal substances or something? I thought we had the freedom to price items any way we wanted. </blockquote>/snickersI was thinking the same thing.I see some resources sold for 15+ silver.. harvests that took me about 20 mins to gather about 50 of each of them. I have no shame in slashing the price in half when I stock my sales crates in that case. Rares are same story. I've sold enough rares to know what the average price is on my server. So when I see an ebon cluster sitting there for 1 plat.. I don't even blink when I price the 3 I've got for sale at 1/3 the price.As for the 1 cp issue.. that's all just a matter of getting to the top of the list. Listing stuff on the broker is going to do no good if your items are buried on the third page at 5cp with 30 other people selling the same thing for 4cp.. only makes sense to drop it to 3cp and go straight to the top of the list where it will move quickly.just my 2 cp worth.. *chuckles at the pun*

[Ookami-san]

<p>I constantly and consistantly undercut by 1cp.  If you don't want to buy from me... don't.  There are plenty of intelligent and thrifty people who will.  But getting into a bidding war on price is insane.  You drive the price to a point where its no longer really worth it craft the item - certain totems now fall into this category on my server as some idiots think that spending 3 minutes on a combine is worth 1sp.  I suspect they are using some type of automated progam and just churn out large quantities - or... they have some sort of psychological disorder.... or... they trained their dog to do tradeskilling....</p><p>Dropping prices to much low rates by making large undercuts devalues us as tradeskillers by saying that our time, effort and investment isn't worth much. Personally... mine is.  I'll undercut the person by 1cp, because he can in return do the same to me without lowering his price to a point where the whole process becomes unprofitable.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Ookami-san wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I'll undercut the person by 1cp, because he can in return do the same to me without lowering his price to a point where the whole process becomes unprofitable.</p></blockquote>As soon as people bid the price down to below the reasonable market price, I pull my items, wait for every one to sell off their stuff at a loss and relist my items at the market value. Regardless of the price.. there will always be people in tradeskill instances lined up to buy resources. ^^

[Lightfoot]

<p>The reason why people will undercut by 1cp is to move their item to the top of the list.  It's logical that if someone wants to buy an item they will buy from the top of the list because it is the cheapest.</p><p>I undercut according to the price range.  If the item is only selling for copper or low silver I will undercut by 1cp.</p><p>If someone is cutting your price by 50% or more, simply buy them out and throw it in to your stack.</p><p>I was having a price war with someone a while ago with shinies.  We both kept undercutting each other and it was a matter of who could hold out the longest before buying the other one out then repricing.  If he bought me out then priced them really high, I would go out hunting for the same item so I could undecut him again. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>What I can't understand is when people price things lower than the merchant price.</p>

[Nidrew]

<p>I think that some people dont check what they can got for products at the merchents....they just go on the broker and keep lowering prices to way below what the merchent will give. wich is great for a buyer but not for the seller...</p><p>buy the same token i dont play this game to make plat.....i play for the questing and such, so when someone is selling armor or a master for 10plat how are we suposed to get the equip we need....so when someone undercuts by alot i dont mind. 10 plat is alot for for so i aplaud the guy who is willing to sell a master....or a good piece of armor for 2 plat when others are selling it for 10+</p>

[Ponos]

<cite>Nidrew wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think that some people dont check what they can got for products at the merchents....they just go on the broker and keep lowering prices to way below what the merchent will give. wich is great for a buyer but not for the seller...</p><p>buy the same token i dont play this game to make plat.....i play for the questing and such, so when someone is selling armor or a master for 10plat how are we suposed to get the equip we need....so when someone undercuts by alot i dont mind. 10 plat is alot for for so i aplaud the guy who is willing to sell a master....or a good piece of armor for 2 plat when others are selling it for 10+</p></blockquote><p>That's wrong.  When you drop an item on the broker, before pricing it yourself, it tells you what it would sell for to a merchant.  If you undercut the merchant's price, your text becomes red.  </p><p>No need to visit a merchant when the broker will do all the work for you.</p>

[Nidrew]

I have checked several merchents and they all show the same price...and ints never what the broker tells me, from what i've seen it shows a higher price then what the merchent sells for.

[Mistymorn]

I will ocassioally sell  collectables  cheaper than i can vendor sell them for.....no i am not crazy.....i just don't need the coppers and feel i may be helping some young character gain a collection completed. I remember how it was back then, when  the common  stuff i needed was never available. For the 1c., undercutters, in my experience many of them are farmers/platsellers. The  guy who comes along and cuts you by more than half usually wants to buy out the market an sell  for much more. In the end i sell for what i please, deal in volume, whoever buys it i am happy with the sale, hope they are satisfied with the purchase.

[grish]

<p>Yeah, while it is quite annoying those are the very people actually trying to keep a fair market value. I would rather be undercut by a copper than by an unreasonable % of the total item worth. People tend to follow suit, if i have a something up for 10 gold, and someone lists it for 5 and then 5 more people suddenly want to list it you can kiss your item value goodbye.</p><p>So while some of the people may be doing it to be jerks, my guess it the majority aer doing it to make the most money possible while preserving the overall state of the market. </p><p>Just look at how the prices in rare harvested materials goes up and down. Ive seen people on our server drop 20+ of one rare type on the market for 20g or so less than the current low price, suddenly within a day you see the price even 20g lower than that.</p>

[Scrylla]

I only undercut by 1cp if I see that someone else has undercut another seller by 1cp on the same item; a little taste of their own medicine.

[Aurumn]

<p>I am usually content to price my wares comparable to what's already on the broker. If the price for a craftable seems outrageous to me (ie: more than triple the cost of the rare?... come ON!) then I set the price to what I feel is fair. I'll often try to think of the cash flow of a character at the item's level and try to make it affordable for them. If I need to clear out space I'll cut the price to dump it or move it to the guild bank for some lucky toon to grab. If someone wants to buy it out and resell it, congratulations on your new find! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>As far as the 1cp undercutting, meh. I don't often buy from those who do, mainly cause it's just a copper. It's a way to get your products off the back page of the listing as someone mentioned earlier. I also agree with Spyderbite... if there are so many sellers in the market that you have to undercut in order to get on the first page of listings, it's time to remove your items from sale and wait until the supply dries up a bit. You'd just be wasting broker space that could be used to sell a higher ticket item. </p>

[zaneluke]

<cite>SugarGirl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I am an undercutter. I admit it openly and with pride. I farm fo rares and solo any named mobs that I can for loot. I sell the treasured stuff to the merchant and I stick any fabled/legendary and collection loot on the broker. Then I search each item on the broker and list it for under what the cheapest item is. If it is not on the broker I list it for some insane price. This insures I get the most I can for the rare stuff and then the rest of the stuff stays on the top of the list so that it will be bought first.</p><p>Every few days I go back to the broker and check the stuff I have listed. If I have been undercut by someone else, then I re-undercut them. Sooner or later, the prices on my stuff work theri way down to where someone looks up the item and finds that the price is actually reasonable. They buy it and I make coin. This is how a free market works. </p><p> I find it far ruder to to price all of your items at some insane price and then get mad when someone marks their for a lower price (whether it's 1 cp or 1 pp). Not a single one of us has been elected the governor of the EQ2 market and I don't think it's up to anyone to think that because they feel thier item is worth xx plat that EVERYONE should sell their item for the same price.</p><p>I also LOVE other undercutters. Even though they may undercut my stuff, they are also undercutting everyone else's stuf. That means if I need a rare for something and the current lowest price is 2pp, it's up to the undercutters to bring the price down to an affordable range.</p><p>This is how a free market works.. period. It's just silly to complain because someone is will to sell your item for less.</p></blockquote>This is by far the best post I have read in a long time, straight to the point.I have one thing to add to all the people that think a crafting guild with agreed upon normal prices for stuff. That is called price fixing, and in RL it is illegal. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So why o why would you want to endorse a practice in game that is actually against the law in real life. If i ever found out there were a bunch of crafters who bonded together to price fix i would go out of my way and spend all of my time and energy to make them fail.I would pull my kids out of school buy them computers and make them child labor crafters.

[Calthine]

While I think the 1c undercutters are rude (they're just doing it to get their name first on the broker), something to remember when pricing your wares:  Something is only worth what the market says it's worth.  You can price an item wherever you want; that doesn't mean it will sell at that price.Another thing about undercutters: In most cases their stuff sells and they go away.

[Lindar Phamoncry]

<p>I find it funny that after 3 years I still find people that adimantley complain about this hillarous!</p><p>When it comes to the broker, I put things up to make money... not friends.</p><p>and you have to think that despite someone undercutting you by 10%.... unless that person is from the same city as you it doesnt make one [Removed for Content] bit of different... because you'll both have the lowest price depending on where the buyer is.</p><p>And that red "vendor price" includes a 20% markup btw... which I find to be perfectly acceptable profit for alot of dropped loot, if I get 50gp instead of the vendor 40... then I find that more than worth my time to put it up there.</p><p>You've already heard it said... and I can guarantee that I wont be the last to say it...</p><p>Either undercut me.... or buy me out</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>I only do this back to the dweebs that do it - when someone undercuts me by 1cp on the broker on the 10p items placing theirs at 9p99g99s99c, I have no problem putting mine up for 9p99g99s98c. I think most people when searching the broker see it they understand what happened.</p><p>Its also interesting to see how quickly the seller will repost 1cp below you again. A few rounds of this may tell you the person is using an illegal third party program to maniuplate the broker market. Search for other items they have and test the theory, then report them.</p>

[Vith]

Welcome to free market capitalism.<div></div><div>I admit I undercut, because I'm more interested in moving items. I don't "1cp" undercut, I stick to whole amounts and try to keep it reasonable. Something selling for 20gp, I put it up for 19gp. But it and sell it for 20gp if you want, I'm just trying to move it and 1gp doesn't mean that much to me, even though I'm not rich (I also don't spend alot). </div><div></div><div>I believe in selling things for a low fair market price, whatever the market is at the time I'm selling. I mostly want to help people by making more items available at the low end of the price spectrum and also get more than dumping it on a vendor.</div><div></div><div>It does suck the way item values can deflate rather quickly, but that's market forces in action. The key is to be flexible, either cut your losses and move into a different market segment, or take the items off the market until it recovers.</div>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miss_Jackie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you people all on illegal substances or something? I thought we had the freedom to price items any way we wanted. </blockquote>/snickersI was thinking the same thing.I see some resources sold for 15+ silver.. harvests that took me about 20 mins to gather about 50 of each of them. I have no shame in slashing the price in half when I stock my sales crates in that case. Rares are same story. I've sold enough rares to know what the average price is on my server. So when I see an ebon cluster sitting there for 1 plat.. I don't even blink when I price the 3 I've got for sale at 1/3 the price.As for the 1 cp issue.. that's all just a matter of getting to the top of the list. Listing stuff on the broker is going to do no good if your items are buried on the third page at 5cp with 30 other people selling the same thing for 4cp.. only makes sense to drop it to 3cp and go straight to the top of the list where it will move quickly.just my 2 cp worth.. *chuckles at the pun*</blockquote>LOL omg the only thing more annoying that the people who price-gouge crap fabled items, are the people selling common harvests for 15 and 20 silver. 

[Vatec]

<cite>Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miss_Jackie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you people all on illegal substances or something? I thought we had the freedom to price items any way we wanted. </blockquote>/snickersI was thinking the same thing.I see some resources sold for 15+ silver.. harvests that took me about 20 mins to gather about 50 of each of them. I have no shame in slashing the price in half when I stock my sales crates in that case. Rares are same story. I've sold enough rares to know what the average price is on my server. So when I see an ebon cluster sitting there for 1 plat.. I don't even blink when I price the 3 I've got for sale at 1/3 the price.As for the 1 cp issue.. that's all just a matter of getting to the top of the list. Listing stuff on the broker is going to do no good if your items are buried on the third page at 5cp with 30 other people selling the same thing for 4cp.. only makes sense to drop it to 3cp and go straight to the top of the list where it will move quickly.just my 2 cp worth.. *chuckles at the pun*</blockquote>LOL omg the only thing more annoying that the people who price-gouge crap fabled items, are the people selling common harvests for 15 and 20 silver.  </blockquote>If they were so "common," people wouldn't be willing to pay 15 or 20 sp for them.  Welcome to capitalism.  If you don't like it, feel free to go out and harvest.  Then come back and put your stuff on the broker and price it at whatever you think is a "fair" price.  Then someone like me will come along and buy it from you and put it back on the broker at whatever the =real= "fair market value" is ;^)

[Celiondra]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior. </blockquote>I LOL'd when you called them miserly idiots. I think alot of people missed the point of the OP its not so much the undercutting its the fact they do it by only 1cp.

[Lightfoot]

If you really think about it, there's no difference than what happens in RL.  How many times have you seen stores make a big thing about advertising an item saying 'under £20' (in the case of US 'under $20), when it is marked up at £19.99.

[Calthine]

<cite>LightfootII wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you really think about it, there's no difference than what happens in RL.  How many times have you seen stores make a big thing about advertising an item saying 'under £20' (in the case of US 'under $20), when it is marked up at £19.99.</blockquote>Or a store with a "Lowest Price Guarentee" whose price is....  1c under the other guys'.

[StormCinder]

<p>Is it Tuesday already?  Time again for the weekly "I don't like the way people price things" thread?</p><p>The 1cp issue is, as has been explained mostly a game-ism due to the fact that the cheapest items go to the top of the first page.  And believe what you'd like, MOST people don't pay that much attention between #1 and #2 and try to decide if someone is being rude.  Most broker transactions do not take that much thought into account...you're fooling yourself.</p><p>With regard to the drastic price reductions...if it's a fluke then the item will disappear and you can go back to your high prices.  If others follow suit, then that is the price the market will bear and you better go along or your going to be sitting on your inventory for a long time (at least til the next GU).</p><p>SC</p>

[RandomStream]

<p>I would like to be able to see prices displayed on the broker for both buying from the broker and buying from the vendor.  This should help show where real bargins are.</p><p>If you are unhappy about competition, then you should be unhappy about unfair competition.  By which I mean one player having an out-of-game advantage that another does not have.  Yes, I heartilly dislike the Veteran's Dispaly Case, where you appear to be under cut by some one who is actually selling at a higher price!</p><p>Of course when I am eligible for one I shall use it - but I would rather see SOE withdraw it completely.</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Ponos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That's wrong.  When you drop an item on the broker, before pricing it yourself, it tells you what it would sell for to a merchant.  If you undercut the merchant's price, your text becomes red.  </blockquote>But what I've found is that that vendor price the broker sets (and red-flags based on) is typically notably higher (usually by some 10-20%) than what the vendors will actually pay. Or at least the vendors that're reasonably close to my home. So it's not uncommon on high-tier items to be pricing notably below the red-flag price and yet I'd still be getting more than I'd get from a vendor.

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Celiondra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior. </blockquote>I LOL'd when you called them miserly idiots. I think alot of people missed the point of the OP its not so much the undercutting its the fact they do it by only 1cp.</blockquote>Exactly. I admit that I'm an undercutter - I check my prices twice a day. I remember back in the day when there were only a few of us tailors around. Now I seem to be competing with everyone. However, when I do undercut, it's by more than 1cp. I try to do it by a couple gold. But lately it's not enough. So I'll probably just do what another poster suggested --- take the item off the broker until the price goes up. Seems like the smartest thing to do. Selling tailored T3 MC items for 15g is just ludicrous --- it's only a few gold above the rare price.

[Devilsbane]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you'll find there's a large population of players who won't buy from the 1c undercutters, lol.</blockquote>Good too know! Instead of undercutting by 1c, I will overprice by 1c. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[CrypticFirefly]

<p>This reminds me of a feature of Star Wars Galaxies that I miss-- it has been years since I played that game, but as I remember it the default sort on the broker was by price and then amount of time the item had been up on the broker:  If there were two of the same item at the same price, the item that had been posted a week would be listed before the item that had been posted for one day.  A bit kinder to the players who didn't name their crafter AAAlocksmith.  :-) </p><p>And as you put your items up for sale, you could see how long the other items had been up there.   Also it was easier to do unattended market research because you could price various of the same item at different prices.  (You can do so in this game also, but it is more difficult.)</p><p>Ah well, different game, different tactics.  </p>

[Branna]

People's sense of entitlement never ceases to amaze me. I am saddened by many of the posts here that people feel they're being "unfairly" undercut, because it "cuts into their profits". Last time I checked, harvesting was absolutely 100% free. And other than provisioners, who have to buy some components (ok, and a few others maybe, like carpenters for repair kits? and probably some I'm forgetting), the ONLY other cost of tradeskilling is fuel. A tier 7 tailor item costs roughly 3.5 gold to make, mostly. 10 fuels at 34s and change per item. The raws cost NOTHING. How do I - or anyone else - justify charging 10-15 gold for that? Yet I see stuff listed for that price or more all the time. Rares I can see charging more for, but not the 1-3 plat I see them listing for at that level. That's absurd.Most of the serious crafters I've talked to have INSANE amounts of money... like, enough to supply my entire army of alts for their entire lives - yet, they still complain that they're being "undercut". Boohoo. I agree that crafting should be "for profit" - I'm not some kind of MMO-commie here, expecting people to donate their services for the good of the community. But people need to get a grip, and stop feeling that they're owed something just because they CHOOSE to craft.

[Calthine]

<cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last time I checked, harvesting was absolutely 100% free. </blockquote>Oh, be careful there.  Last time I said that I got lectured on "opportunity costs"....

[Branna]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last time I checked, harvesting was absolutely 100% free. </blockquote>Oh, be careful there.  Last time I said that I got lectured on "opportunity costs"....</blockquote>Hmmm, not quite sure what that means... but my pickaxe doesn't charge me when i smack it into a rock.

[Vatec]

<cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last time I checked, harvesting was absolutely 100% free. </blockquote>Oh, be careful there.  Last time I said that I got lectured on "opportunity costs"....</blockquote>Hmmm, not quite sure what that means... but my pickaxe doesn't charge me when i smack it into a rock.</blockquote>Yes, it does.  It charges you in the most valuable coin of all:  your TIME.If you =enjoy= running around harvesting, then that's probably a small price to pay.  But if, like most players, you find it to be a chore, every second you spend harvesting is a second you could have been doing something fun.  THAT is opportunity cost.And yes, if I do something in a game that isn't fun, I expect to be compensated for my time.  If you don't, then I'd like to engage your services as my personal harvesting bot.  Go forth and fetch me some belladonna roots!  ;^)

[Branna]

You CHOOSE to do something, in a GAME, that isn't "fun", and expect to be compensated for that? That's a pretty silly attitude, in my opinion. If you don't like doing it, don't do it, simple as that.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ponos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That's wrong.  When you drop an item on the broker, before pricing it yourself, it tells you what it would sell for to a merchant.  If you undercut the merchant's price, your text becomes red.  </blockquote>But what I've found is that that vendor price the broker sets (and red-flags based on) is typically notably higher (usually by some 10-20%) than what the vendors will actually pay. Or at least the vendors that're reasonably close to my home. So it's not uncommon on high-tier items to be pricing notably below the red-flag price and yet I'd still be getting more than I'd get from a vendor.</blockquote>You need to find a vendor willing to pay the 'fair price'.In Neriak, I have found that the 'Skeleton' vendor opposite the broker will pay the full whack, other cities I'm not sure about.Hunt around and you will find that elusive 'full price' vendor, then you know where to sell in future.

[Calthine]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>If you =enjoy= running around harvesting, then that's probably a small price to pay.  But if, like most players, you find it to be a chore</blockquote>Tsk.. considering the number of harvesting addicts, I'd reconsider applying any description to "most" players.  Unless that description is "at least slightly nutso," lol

[Peysel]

If only everyone undercutted by only 1cp.  How is it that so many of you fail to see how silly it is to prefer your competition to undercut you by 1 silver than by 1 copper.  The price drops so much faster when you do that, which is part of why the tailor made items on Runnyeye have been so terribly low in the past - cheaper than the vendor would buy the items for crying out loud..and nothing you can do because the broker fee pushes the buying price just above the threshold, and of course these crazy folk don't have addresses to buy directly from either -.If I see something going cheaper I'll buy it, unless it's a player I KNOW to be a true Plat Farmer.  It's incredibly rude of YOU folk to try and dictate to other players what you think something should sell for, stop whining about such a silly thing and turn your attention to eradicating Norrath of those dratted Plat Farmers, and educate the Cherry-Pickers while you're at it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I usually undercut by a few silver but as the price nears the "not worth it" limit I price match to stop it going down any further. Many items are no longer worth selling any more (tradeskill recipes for one) so I just vendor those. </p><p>I was playing on Oasis yesterday when I noticed one seller had <b>7 pages</b> worth of fabled items (not masters) for sale - all at 888pp each and all pretty low level stuff. Strange...</p>

[Rattfa]

whenever i put things on the broker, i generally just match the lowest price. and ajust accordingly over time. I'll never buy from those who undercut by 1c. It's just lame.People who undercut by a large amount though, who cares? They want to make a quick sale, and are making less money because of that. It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr

[zaneluke]

<cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote> Most of the serious crafters I've talked to have INSANE amounts of money... like, enough to supply my entire army of alts for their entire lives - yet, they still complain that they're being "undercut". Boohoo.  </blockquote>I honestly think there is a good portion of hardcore crafters that sell thier plat. And i honestly think they are some of the people that are so vocal on the boards about anything that cuts into thier profit margin. <span style="color: #ff0000;">This is just a feeling I have and i have zero proof. If it offends you then you im sorry. I have three crafters and two high level toons with great gear. I have absolutly no use for plat after a certain point. I have over 200 on all three of my toons and besides from buying adept three spells there is nothing more to spend my plat on.You say buy some masters spells and awsome armor? Hardcore crafters do not have these hardcore adventures. you know who im talking about too. The server rich who are 100% crafters.Where does there plat go? Are they just crafting for personel satisfaction? Look I have 3000 plat? I think some of them are selling it, and they come on here to [Removed for Content] and moan about changes that cut into thier profit.Look at the rare harvestable thread. The end result of having more rares in the game is people would be able to be better equppied for cheeper and the only people it would hurt would be the hard core crafters and plat farmers. My 2cp.</span>

[sorinev]

I seriously applaud all you people that actually sell stuff. I just vendor everything. EVERYTHING. Unless I can use it. Including masters if I see there are too many adept 3 and masters already on the broker. I just CBF (can't be f***ed) to bother going through all that anymore. Too much hassle. I used to, during the first couple of months after I started (12/04), but since then...meh. So yeah, seriously guys, thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Without those of you that sell stuff, I'd not know what to do.

[Tremelle]

<cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Branna wrote:</cite><blockquote> Most of the serious crafters I've talked to have INSANE amounts of money... like, enough to supply my entire army of alts for their entire lives - yet, they still complain that they're being "undercut". Boohoo.  </blockquote>I honestly think there is a good portion of hardcore crafters that sell thier plat. And i honestly think they are some of the people that are so vocal on the boards about anything that cuts into thier profit margin. <span style="color: #ff0000;">This is just a feeling I have and i have zero proof. If it offends you then you im sorry. I have three crafters and two high level toons with great gear. I have absolutly no use for plat after a certain point. I have over 200 on all three of my toons and besides from buying adept three spells there is nothing more to spend my plat on.You say buy some masters spells and awsome armor? Hardcore crafters do not have these hardcore adventures. you know who im talking about too. The server rich who are 100% crafters.Where does there plat go? Are they just crafting for personel satisfaction? Look I have 3000 plat? I think some of them are selling it, and they come on here to [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan about changes that cut into thier profit.Look at the rare harvestable thread. The end result of having more rares in the game is people would be able to be better equppied for cheeper and the only people it would hurt would be the hard core crafters and plat farmers. My 2cp.</span></blockquote>Where does your plat from adventuring go? I would like to point out that my highest toon, my guardian is 58 and in one run solo I collect 1-2 plat each time. Of course trying to relate this to crafting is a bit of an apple to orange metaphor, but I belive my provive, whom is 60 makes about double-t ripple the fuel cost of the product, I think the highest item selling items go for around 1 gold each. My weapon smith, whom is in his 40's nearly only makes money if the item is mastercrafted and the fuel cost is around 4g per item, plus the time it took to gather mats, rare metals take around 1-2 hours to find if you don't buy them of the broker. So honestly, compared to adv, crafter don't make as much money.

[sorinev]

I think he was referring to the really hardcore crafters. The ones who eat, sleep, live, breathe and die tradeskills. The ones who have multiple capped crafters who sell goods from all of them and have been doing this for a long time. Those are the ones that I'm sure he's talking about. I used to be guilded with one. He had a capped adventurer and 8 alts who were all capped in crafting (9 when including his adventurer that was also capped in crafting). He had thousands of plat. This was back when there were subcombines, so there weren't nearly as many crafters since everyone didn't have their own crafting army like nowadays.

[Sunlei]

<p> I've made a lot of plats off the brokers, spent it all too on buying 'your' stuff'..that's the game isn't it?</p><p>I'm sure it's easy for soe to see on their serverside logs, who earned and spent their own platinum. And see just who 'gives away' chunks of coin or  shows up 100pp richer without earning anything or easy for anyone to see the sellers with 100 'markers' selling for 100-1000pp each. gg i wonder what those people are doing <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>To me, a discount is larger than 1 cp. </p><p>However, I am not above pricing my items 1 cp MORE than the lowest, thus gaining a LOT of the i hate 1cp undercutters 'pity' sales too. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[StormCinder]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ponos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That's wrong.  When you drop an item on the broker, before pricing it yourself, it tells you what it would sell for to a merchant.  If you undercut the merchant's price, your text becomes red.  </blockquote>But what I've found is that that vendor price the broker sets (and red-flags based on) is typically notably higher (usually by some 10-20%) than what the vendors will actually pay. Or at least the vendors that're reasonably close to my home. So it's not uncommon on high-tier items to be pricing notably below the red-flag price and yet I'd still be getting more than I'd get from a vendor.</blockquote><p>I'm surprised Calthine hasn't jumped on this one yet.  The "vendor price" you're seeing on your broker window is the NPC vendor price+ the 20% markup that the broker would charge.  Just FYI.</p><p>SC</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ponos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That's wrong.  When you drop an item on the broker, before pricing it yourself, it tells you what it would sell for to a merchant.  If you undercut the merchant's price, your text becomes red.  </blockquote>But what I've found is that that vendor price the broker sets (and red-flags based on) is typically notably higher (usually by some 10-20%) than what the vendors will actually pay. Or at least the vendors that're reasonably close to my home. So it's not uncommon on high-tier items to be pricing notably below the red-flag price and yet I'd still be getting more than I'd get from a vendor.</blockquote><p>I'm surprised Calthine hasn't jumped on this one yet.  The "vendor price" you're seeing on your broker window is the NPC vendor price+ the 20% markup that the broker would charge.  Just FYI.</p><p>SC</p></blockquote>Which frankly makes no sense at all.  If I'm selling on the broker, why would I already factor that into the minimum price?  If a vendor is willing to pay me 1sp for something, just tell me that.  I guess what it's trying to tell you is that, if the vendor were selling this item, this is how much you could =buy= it for.  But who cares?  When I'm placing stuff for sale on the broker, I'm a seller, not a buyer.What's worse is, if you don't take notes, once you've priced something for sale, you'll never again see the vendor price until either A. you discount below it and the price turns red or B. you remove the item from the display and then replace it (which is a hassle when you've got dozens of items at different prices and you want to check to see how close to vendor price you're getting on one of them).It's not a =huge= hassle, mind you, but it's still a hassle.

[Kenazeer]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>What's worse is, if you don't take notes, once you've priced something for sale, you'll never again see the vendor price until either A. you discount below it and the price turns red or B. you remove the item from the display and then replace it (which is a hassle when you've got dozens of items at different prices and you want to check to see how close to vendor price you're getting on one of them).It's not a =huge= hassle, mind you, but it's still a hassle.</blockquote>Actually, if you just set the price to 0 it will return to the original default.

[Generic123]

<p>Cutting prices will increase the number of people willing to buy your products but only to a certain point.  This means there is a sweet spot where the market size (measured in plat) is largest.  Sharing the market at this sweet spot is the best way for everyone to make money and adventurers don't normally mind because the sweet spot is always going to be within their means.  </p><p>The thing no one wants is a price war. Everyone is selling the exact same items and has the exact same cost to produce those items, so it's not possible to win a price war in EQ2.  If you try to get the whole market to yourself by consistently undercutting your competition it will almost always kick of a price war and kill everyone's profits.  </p><p>Put another way; in the real world a smart businessman matches his competitors unless he has a competitive advantage over them.  In EQ2 there is no such thing as a competitive advantage so you should almost always try to match your competitor's prices unless they are completely misjudging the market.  </p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>What's worse is, if you don't take notes, once you've priced something for sale, you'll never again see the vendor price until either A. you discount below it and the price turns red or B. you remove the item from the display and then replace it (which is a hassle when you've got dozens of items at different prices and you want to check to see how close to vendor price you're getting on one of them).It's not a =huge= hassle, mind you, but it's still a hassle.</blockquote>Actually, if you just set the price to 0 it will return to the original default.</blockquote>Heh, I've never been brave enough to try that ;^)Thanks for the tip.

[Kenazeer]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, I've never been brave enough to try that ;^)Thanks for the tip.</blockquote>Welcome...and since I forgot to specify, you do have to select a coin type in order to get the ok button. So say you have something listed at 10 silver and you want to know what the default is, just set the price to 0 copper then hit ok. The item will be de-listed and the value set back to the default.

[CrypticFirefly]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr</blockquote>Yes, what's up with that?  The other day someone had 400+ of the same exact food item listed, which they priced at a fraction of what everyone else was selling it for.  Irksome, but the part that blows my mind is how boring it would be to make that many of the same exact item.  I like to make a different things during a crafting session because it is too boring to just make the same thing over and over.  And to do it over 200 times in a row, well, I can only stand in awe of that crafter's OCD. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Calthine]

<cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr</blockquote>Yes, what's up with that?  The other day someone had 400+ of the same exact food item listed, which they priced at a fraction of what everyone else was selling it for.  Irksome, but the part that blows my mind is how boring it would be to make that many of the same exact item.  I like to make a different things during a crafting session because it is too boring to just make the same thing over and over.  And to do it over 200 times in a row, well, I can only stand in awe of that crafter's OCD. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Heh.  You must not have a woodworker.  To put up ammo in lots less than 1000 is not worth it./wanders off to find her wrist braces.

[CrypticFirefly]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr</blockquote>Yes, what's up with that?  The other day someone had 400+ of the same exact food item listed, which they priced at a fraction of what everyone else was selling it for.  Irksome, but the part that blows my mind is how boring it would be to make that many of the same exact item.  I like to make a different things during a crafting session because it is too boring to just make the same thing over and over.  And to do it over 200 times in a row, well, I can only stand in awe of that crafter's OCD. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Heh.  You must not have a woodworker.  To put up ammo in lots less than 1000 is not worth it./wanders off to find her wrist braces.</blockquote><p>Nope, but was thinking of making one because my arrow habit is getting expensive.  But you get more than two arrows per combine, right?</p><p>/was happy to get rid of the wrist braces after they got rid of subcombines.</p>

[Tremelle]

You get 100 arrows per combine.

[Troubor]

<p>Just replying to the OP here really.</p><p>My reaction to someone undercutting by one copper is "so what?".  I don't undercut by such tiny amounts, but if they wish to, fine.  When I am undercut by a copper, I'll often undercut them by let's say 5 or 10 gold, assuming I'm still making a profit and I'm above vendor price.  One of two things happen, a)  My item sells and/or they leave their price at some oddball amount that's now above my price or b)  They again undercut me by a copper.  Which if they do "b", I undercut them by a larger amount until they give up or my item sells.  Is my approach logical?  Probably not, but it's what I do, and my item will sell before theirs does in most cases.  And, I do wonder if I'm annoying them a bit by undercutting, but by my rules.  I force them in a way to play by my rules, since they also have to lower by 5 or 10 gold, plus that 1 copper to undercut me.</p><p>Or to put it another way, I force them to decide if undercutting me again is worth it or not.</p><p>As an aside, I have found that when mine does sell, if we're the only two with said item on the broker, the undercutter will then raise his price up to some almost absurd amount...and then said item sits again.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

<cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Nope, but was thinking of making one because my arrow habit is getting expensive.  But you get more than two arrows per combine, right?</p><p>/was happy to get rid of the wrist braces after they got rid of subcombines.</p></blockquote>Yeah, 100 arrows per combine.  But remember, the biggest quiver holds 12 stacks, and a raiding ranger will blow through a quiver full or more every night.

[BK613]

The undercutting i find annoying is the undercutting that happens when people put something up for less than what a NPC would give.Otherwise, it is a free market and you should anticipate that if someone's cost is less than yours, they could sell cheaper for the same or more profit that you are making.  It's not rude, it's smart business.

[Branna]

<cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr</blockquote>Yes, what's up with that?  The other day someone had 400+ of the same exact food item listed, which they priced at a fraction of what everyone else was selling it for.  Irksome, but the part that blows my mind is how boring it would be to make that many of the same exact item.  I like to make a different things during a crafting session because it is too boring to just make the same thing over and over.  And to do it over 200 times in a row, well, I can only stand in awe of that crafter's OCD. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Most likely some jerk using an outside-the-game macro program to craft all that while at work/sleeping/whatever. A while back, one of my guildmates, who ALWAYS logged out for the night by 11pm, was staying on all night, always in the tradeskill instance. Upon questioning, she admitted that she was using one to level, to get to 65 in order to craft Wurmslayer (this was before commission work was available).

[zaneluke]

<cite>Fusegu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></cite>Where does your plat from adventuring go? <span style="color: #00cc00;">Armor, potions and spells which i buy from hardcore crfaters. </span>I would like to point out that my highest toon, my guardian is 58 and in one run solo I collect 1-2 plat each time. Of course trying to relate this to crafting is a bit of an apple to orange metaphor, but I belive my provive, whom is 60 makes about double-t ripple the fuel cost of the product, I think the highest item selling items go for around 1 gold each. <span style="color: #009900;">As a 58 guardian you can not comepare your income revenue to a 70 warlock. so that is apple to oranges. And my provisioner? I hardly craft with anymore due to time vs money reward. I make more with the lock out in kingdon of sky </span>So honestly, compared to adv, crafter don't make as much money. <span style="color: #993399;">I have spent 20 plat on one character for one teir of spells and 15 on another for armor. IA hardcore adventurer use his/her resources to further his characters in armor and spells.A hardcore crafter, well you see by my post, what do they do with thier $$$.I see that you are NEITHER so honestly your opinion is moot.</span></blockquote>

[Vatec]

<cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip>It is frustrating at times...my provisioner put a couple of stacks of food on the broker a while back..going for a pretty good price. I sold a few, and then someone put on like 500 units at less than a quarter of the price. grrrr</blockquote>Yes, what's up with that?  The other day someone had 400+ of the same exact food item listed, which they priced at a fraction of what everyone else was selling it for.  Irksome, but the part that blows my mind is how boring it would be to make that many of the same exact item.  I like to make a different things during a crafting session because it is too boring to just make the same thing over and over.  And to do it over 200 times in a row, well, I can only stand in awe of that crafter's OCD. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Probably used a bot to make it for them.  When I see someone crafting non-stop for over 20 hours, well, let's just say I find it suspicious.I can think of one example off the top of my head:  I spent four hours doing timed writs at the workbench.  There was a Sage at one of the desks.  The Sage didn't move the entire time I was there.  Just endlessly scribing scrolls.  The desk was animated and I kept seeing the "XXX took damage from failing to counter YYY" messages.  A few hours later I came by with a different character to check the broker.  Sage was still there, still failing to counter.  Later that night I passed by the broker again.  Same spam from same Sage at same desk.Proof that it's a bot?  No, not exactly.  But mighty suspicious nonetheless....

[Tremelle]

<cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fusegu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></cite>Where does your plat from adventuring go? <span style="color: #00cc00;">Armor, potions and spells which i buy from hardcore crfaters. </span>I would like to point out that my highest toon, my guardian is 58 and in one run solo I collect 1-2 plat each time. Of course trying to relate this to crafting is a bit of an apple to orange metaphor, but I belive my provive, whom is 60 makes about double-t ripple the fuel cost of the product, I think the highest item selling items go for around 1 gold each. <span style="color: #009900;">As a 58 guardian you can not comepare your income revenue to a 70 warlock. so that is apple to oranges. And my provisioner? I hardly craft with anymore due to time vs money reward. I make more with the lock out in kingdon of sky </span>So honestly, compared to adv, crafter don't make as much money. <span style="color: #993399;">I have spent 20 plat on one character for one teir of spells and 15 on another for armor. IA hardcore adventurer use his/her resources to further his characters in armor and spells.A hardcore crafter, well you see by my post, what do they do with thier $$$.I see that you are NEITHER so honestly your opinion is moot.</span></blockquote></blockquote>First how do you know if they are"Hard core crafter"? Many people craft and adventer, and crafting its self is not cheap. You either have go hunting for the materials, which can take hours or buy them. So the money from crafting is going to the adventure one way or another. As for compairing income, I don't really think 5 levels are going to give you that much more . The only mobs I can't solo are above 65. Sorry, but being a mage class you have no clue about the real cost of a teir of a tank class, it is way over 20 plat, it is closer to 100. There is about 6 plat per equipment slot, plus the skill that range from 2 plat for an adept 3- 30 plat for a master. Lastly I find your personal attacks disgraceful and uncalled for, this shows great immaturity on your part. I was mearlly expressing my opinion, it was not an opening to be rude. Please grow up and then we can really talk.

[Calthine]

You know, I was leveling up the Tailor Tijacki challenged me to make (testing skillups vs level, but that's a different thread).  Just for giggles I gave her a Saleman's crate and put the four fluff outfit I'd made in it.And now that I think about it, I didn't look at the market to see what they were going for.  I saw they "cost" <3s; I put them at 50s, figuring with the new appearance slots they might sell.  They were T3, and made mostly from Kiana's old leftover WORTS.  Did I undercut?  Did I gouge?  Am I about to get hate mail from Nektulos Tailors?  I've no clue.  So when complaining about someone's pricing, perhaps bear in mind they honestly might not care or have looked at what the market is doing.

[UlteriorModem]

<cite>BK613 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The undercutting i find annoying is the undercutting that happens when people put something up for less than what a NPC would give.Otherwise, it is a free market and you should anticipate that if someone's cost is less than yours, they could sell cheaper for the same or more profit that you are making.  It's not rude, it's smart business. </blockquote><p>(Shrug) Ill buy gear at the best available price.</p><p>Ill sell my trinkets for the best price I can get for them.</p><p>Just last night I changed the price of some or other adept1 that I had priced at the curent "market" prices. It sat there for 6 months... no lie. So I check the current market price and it was 1/3 of what I had it priced at. I dropped the price and poof its no longer taking up room.</p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind undercutting by 1cp but undercutting by 50% of the price is the thing that annoys me most. Put a master up for 3 plat (maybe a few gold under the previous seller) and someone puts one up at 1pp, undercutting by 2pp. </p><p>Makes my teeth grind. </p></blockquote>I just buy it at the vastly reduced price, and list the item with those I already have, at <i>my</i> price. 

[simpwrx02]

<cite>KKidrakSG wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you are competing with me for an item on the broker PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE UNDERCUT ME BY ONE COPPER!</p><p>Nothing makes me madder than when I am selling an item on the broker for a perfectly fair price and some jack you-know-what (JA for short) comes along and slashes my price by 90%.  Talk about rude.  The ruins my business and is akin to greifing in my opinion.  Does he really get anything from selling an item on the broker for the same price he could get from a vendor for the item?  NO!  Does he ruin my ability to make money on the same item by doing this?  YES!</p><p>On the other hand, if I have a mature competitor on the broker who makes gives a modest (and by "modest" I mean the smallest of increments 1c to 1s depending on the total price) price break to beat my price, I applaud him.  Granted, when I reprice my items I will repay the favor and leapfrog his price by a similarly small amount.  In so doing, we are both still earning fair profit for the work we have done.  It is when the aforementioned JA enters the scene and slashes our prices by a huge amount that we lose out.  Now you have two honest crafters trying to make a living who can either drop their prices so low that their profit margins become razor thin, or they can just stop selling the item.  I for one am not going to spend hours at the crafting table to make a few silver pieces per combine just because that JA is selling his product for 10 coppers more than the vendor gives.  I did not level my crafters to level 70 to work for pennies.</p><p>Now, I know that someone is going to come back and claim that my argument above has nothing to do with undercutting by one copper.  Well...let me elaborate for anyone in the audience with a <b><u>double-digit IQ</u></b>.</p><p>1.  Let's take for example a popular crafted item that sells for a fair price of 10G.  If I have a competitor or two who politely undercut my prices by just 1 silver, then I can come back and undercut them by the same 1 silver, and we all still make fair money for our work.</p><p>2.  Now let's take the same situation and throw a TURBO JA (TJA for short) into the mix.  We are all happily selling our crafted items for 10G, 9g 99s, 9g 98s, 9g97s, and so on.  Then the TJA throws a truckload of the same item on the broker for 8G.  Hmm.  That was a little annoying, but no big deal so far.  Myself and my mature competitors all comply with the newcomer into the market and price our items for 7g99s-ish.  That cuts into our profits a little, but it is not devastating.  Then the TJA discovers that we have adjusted to his entrance into the market and again slashes our prices, but only drops to 7g this time.  Mature sellers again adjust, more grumbling ensues.  TJA logs on again and slashes price to 5g.  Ok, this is really starting to blow now...but since we still need to eat, we all take the A-pounding and make our prices 4g99s.  The TJA will NOT be having this on HIS broker, so he finishes us off with a nice round price of 1g29s...the same price a vendor will give.  Thanks buddy, you just invalidated all the work us honest businessmen put into getting to 70 at all.</p><p>The moral of the story is, "Don't be a Turbo JA."</p><p>Undercutting by a copper (or a very small amount) is NOT childish or rude.  It is the exact polar opposite!  It preserves the integrity of the market.  Do do otherwise ruins the economy and invalidates the hard work of other gamers just like yourself.  <b><u>Please undercut me by a copper!</u></b>  If you do, I will be polite enough to do the same for you.</p></blockquote><p>I am one of those TJA as you put it, why because I want to sell my stuff as fast as possible to make room for more stuff to sell.  If you dont want to take this "huge" profit reduction, then let the TJA sell his stuff at his lower price and when he is doen you will have your item at the price you considered fair.  When some one starts a price war with me I do not do baby steps I take it to heart and go all out.  "SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY UBER CHEAP ITEMS COME BUY THEM"  If you dont like it then do not adjust you price, I personally always have a price I will not go below.  On the bright side I do enjoy the price cutters who have no clue what the value is to a vender and list items for less  free money for this guy.</p><p>Anyways have fun in game selling I will continue to do my random undercuts based on what I fell like doing I also like whole numbers and stuff like 7 gold 95 silver annoy me, so I would either cut the price to 7 gold 50 silver or simply 7 gold, that is how I role.</p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, I was leveling up the Tailor Tijacki challenged me to make (testing skillups vs level, but that's a different thread).  Just for giggles I gave her a Saleman's crate and put the four fluff outfit I'd made in it.And now that I think about it, I didn't look at the market to see what they were going for.  I saw they "cost" <3s; I put them at 50s, figuring with the new appearance slots they might sell.  They were T3, and made mostly from Kiana's old leftover WORTS.  Did I undercut?  Did I gouge?  Am I about to get hate mail from Nektulos Tailors?  I've no clue.  So when complaining about someone's pricing, perhaps bear in mind they honestly might not care or have looked at what the market is doing.</blockquote>I dont think this is what the OP was complaining about <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Though I can see an undercutting by 1copper being an accident in this case as you didnt look at the market before hand.What the OP is talking about, however, is those people who do look at the market and purposely undercut everyone else by 1copper.

[Calthine]

It was more a response to the general conversation about undercutters than the 1c complaint of the OP <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[hun_gover]

Don't really see what the fuss is about, if someone undercuts you by any amount then its fair game.  Its not rude, its not bad etiquette.I sell stuff on 5 crafters and every time I sell for the most money I can get for an item.  And when I buy raws, I buy them for as cheap as I can get.  If someone undercuts me I match them, unless they are selling at X pp, X gp, X sp, X cp, then i just match the PP/GP cause I can be bothered to go clicking all them buttons across 5 toons and 30 broker slots.  If no one else is selling an Item, I am going to bump my price up a bit.If your that worried about people undercutting your prices by huge amounts, then buy theirs and sell it too.  They arent gonna keep making items and selling at a loss.  And if its a looted  item, then its your choice to take the risk.  You think you can sell for the high amount buy it up and sell for the higher amount, just dont cry when you cant sell  it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Its simple common sense, really not worth getting knickers in a twist over imo.

[zaneluke]

<cite>Fusegu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>Lastly I find your personal attacks disgraceful and uncalled for, this shows great immaturity on your part. I was mearlly expressing my opinion, it was not an opening to be rude. Please grow up and then we can really talk.</blockquote>And I said your opinion was moot.  And i still think it is. That is not a personal attack. I apologize if you took it that way. You asked me in the post that i had quoted where "my" money went. I told you were my money went. You are using in your original response to my post the amount of money your 60 provisioner makes. I am sorry but most of the food that moves in this game is the lev 65 and up food/drink. 3 hour to 5 hour goodies is whats sells. so profit off those should be the factor that is opening up for discussion not the fuel costs and returns of a 60 provisioner.  Fusegu that in my opinion was opening the door from my broad post fingering me. so i responded in like fashion. If you were offended and thought my post was persoanlly disgracefull toawrds you. I am sorry was not the intention. You are entering into a debate with me where we will have to opinions based on facts of what we can do with our toons in both crafting and adventuring. Our skill levels are up and coming vs endgame. our income revenue is going to be different. So the wife and i have.....70 warlock, 70 paladin,70 assasin,70mystic,21 bard,45 wizard.70 provisioner,70 carpenter,50 alchemist, this is where my opinions on the state of cash flow come from.So yes i am not all rounded in every aspect of the game, but i honestly feel i pretty much got a grasp on each of the 4 base classes and what it costs to run them and thier ability at income revenue. And yes in my opinion, your opinion is moot to me because in my eyes i feel you come no where even close to me level of income revenue. Depending on the market fluctuation i can make about 15-25 plat per day. PER DAY if i hardcore it. I do not craft hardcore because i have no use for all that money. I enjoy going out and running dungeons and raidning and i craft enough to supply my army of toons in the best spells and gear i can afford, <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And this is the reason i made the first post in red and did add a disclaimer to the start of it about please not being offended. So in ending I called your opinion moot, and you called me disgracefull and immature. YOu have your right to thinkthat way.And i have my right to be a tad rude to you. But to call what i said a personal attack? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Allurana]

<p>I am a 1cp undercutter and proud of it.</p><p>Don't like my practice, don't buy my stuff.</p><p>HOWEVER....</p><p>it is about cashflow for me.  I like the Microsoft approach to world domination.  I would rather sell 1,000,000 units at $1 each then 1 unit for $1,000,000.  I don't have to sit on that one unit forever waiting for the big payday, instead I get paid all the time and thus fund my gazillion alts habit.</p><p>There is no brand loyalty in this game and there shouldn't be.  The best place to be if you are interested in keep a healthy cash flow is the top of the list when you search for an item.</p><p>I always buy the cheapest of what I am looking for and will continue to do so.</p>

[Arwen0]

I tend to price according to tier and will undercut by 10-15% in some cases.  I want my items to sell and not sit around taking up space.  I also try my best to help others that are starting out new and don't have a lot to spend to gear up.  It all comes down to fair market pricing.What bugs me are price gougers.There is one player on my server that routinely buys out all of one item then resells for a MUCH higher price, (price fixing).  He then advertises in channel that he has the lowest prices on the broker.  When confronted he will call everyone that was selling their items for less undercutters and berate them in channel for selling their items for to little.  If confronted he will tell you that you are the one breaking the rules and should be reported for harassing him lol.  Seems like he just insanely hates the fact that other people undercut his prices.IMHO there is nothing wrong with undercutting.  Its just economics, and not worth getting stressed out over it.

[DngrMou]

<p><u>My New Selling Tactic:</u></p><p>1.  Find the lowest price on the broker.</p><p>2.  Price my wares one copper higher.</p><p>Everyone will think the person below me is the bad guy, and buy my stuff!  Woot!</p>

[Allurana]

<cite>Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><u>My New Selling Tactic:</u></p><p>1.  Find the lowest price on the broker.</p><p>2.  Price my wares one copper higher.</p><p>Everyone will think the person below me is the bad guy, and buy my stuff!  Woot!</p></blockquote>HAHAHA, Wow!  I love your plan.  Do you think that will work on the 1cp harvested raw materials too? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Garath]

<cite>Generic123 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Cutting prices will increase the number of people willing to buy your products but only to a certain point.  This means there is a sweet spot where the market size (measured in plat) is largest.  Sharing the market at this sweet spot is the best way for everyone to make money and adventurers don't normally mind because the sweet spot is always going to be within their means.  </p><p>The thing no one wants is a price war. Everyone is selling the exact same items and has the exact same cost to produce those items, so it's not possible to win a price war in EQ2.  If you try to get the whole market to yourself by consistently undercutting your competition it will almost always kick of a price war and kill everyone's profits.  </p><p>Put another way; in the real world a smart businessman matches his competitors unless he has a competitive advantage over them.  In EQ2 there is no such thing as a competitive advantage so you should almost always try to match your competitor's prices unless they are completely misjudging the market.  </p></blockquote>I just have to comment on this. Yes, everyone has the same costs. Those costs are practically non-existent except for TIME. You can argue that the rares cost but they don't cost the harvesters anything but time. Fuel costs are there but not significant. Drops don't COST any money, again only time. What does your time cost in a game? Mine is easy. Compariatively how much money can I make adventuring vs harvesting. What if I am harvesting WHILE adventuring? Then what? Rare drops? If I can't use them, its all bonus money anyways. Same thing with collections. I don't go hunting them, I find them while I am adventuring - gaining experience and getting normal vendor trash loot. Its all bonus money to me.I don't care about price wars. Undercut me all you want, depending on how long the item has been sitting on the broker, I'll either undercut right back, leave it knowing the price will go back up, or just say "forget it" and pull the item for vendor trash.Real world business men have real costs associated with the product. Given the enormous markup of items compared to actual money spent, the only thing left to judge is the rather arbitrary value of your time. In EQ2, it makes sense to price the product according to your percieved value of your time and how quickly you want to move the product.

[Rashaak]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a level 38 tailor, and as such I craft a lot. It's how I make most of my money. When selling items, I deal with people trying to undercut me and that's fine - it's all part of the game and I really don't mind it too much. The thing that annoys the hell out of me are the people who undercut me by 1 copper. These miserly idiots think by undercutting me by such a miniscule amount that they'll maximize their profit. Whenever I buy stuff off the broker, if I see someone undercut another person by 1 measly copper, I buy from the other guy out of principle. I urge all of you to do the same in order to counter this childish behavior. </blockquote><p>It's just like on one corner you have Shell gas station advertising Unleaded at $2.67, but the Chevron advertising for Unleaded at $2.66.  It happens all the time, however...most likely they are trying to sell their product for virtually the same amount but wanting to sell theres first without running the price down on the item.</p><p>Putting theres 1 cp below yours gaurantee's them first view when a person is doing a search for the item of interest. So...it is in fact...not childish at all. It's common business practice...</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Garath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Those costs are practically non-existent except for TIME. </blockquote>The problem is the difference in how people value their TIME in the game.

[Soradin]

<p>(note, the word "you" in this post is used generally, not to address any particular post.) </p><p>This has been discussed to death over the years.. I think at this point, this horse isn't dead, it's bones.... </p><p> People can price how they want, and name calling (such as calling people who go against your own personal made-up rules "childish" is) is really rather ludicrous. There was even an attempt a few years ago (and probably several times since) to form "trade coalitions" on each server, that would intentionally grief anyone who sold below what the coalition determined was a "Fair" price for an item.</p><p> No one dictates to me, now or ever, what I can or will charge for an item, and if I happen to charge 1 copper less (which I don't typically do, but it's an idea..... ) than someone else then I highly recommend you get a grip and realize that unless you own SOE, there's nothing you can do about it other than whine. No one has the right to tell people they are "wrong" about pricing anything... and if you think you have that right, I recommend, respectfully, that you're a bit full of yourself and should probably take yourself, and the game, less seriously.</p>

[Garath]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Garath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Those costs are practically non-existent except for TIME. </blockquote>The problem is the difference in how people value their TIME in the game. </blockquote>True. And those differences account for the variety in prices we'll see on the broker. What I don't understand is the people getting angry at severe undercutting for a product that costs <i>no actual money. </i>If you are getting undercut to the point where you feel it is not worth your time, pick a different product or wait for the market to shift again. If there is significant demand, the prices will rise. If there isn't enough demand to overcome the rock bottom sellers then there is too much supply and you are probably wasting your time attempting to sell it. Its simply the way it works.

[Allurana]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Garath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Those costs are practically non-existent except for TIME. </blockquote>The problem is the difference in how people value their TIME in the game. </blockquote>This is precisely the reason why I have every trade skill class leveled up to 70.  I like to be self-sufficient and I preferred to take the 2 years it took me to level all the classes up instead of paying someone else what they thought their time was worth.  I have too many alts to be able to afford other people's prices. hahhaa.

[WickThrashmetal]

<p>Sounds like the OP's gotten burned a few times from the 1cp'ers.  AFAIC, a copper saved is a copper earned, if I can get the same item cheaper, I will, period.  I find this to be true on most MMOGs I've played from the economy as well.</p><p> I've gotten burned by them a few times myself, that's why I stick to the hot sellers, because if the items sell well, then their one or two items will sell first and mine will as well.  Just because your items don't sell as quickly don't mean they won't sell at all- chill out.</p>

[Willias]

1cp undercutters don't bother me.  I just undercut them by 1sp and giggle.It's the undercutters that sell their stuff for the amount that a vendor would give them, or lower than vendor prices that get me (especially when they have quite a few of said item on the broker).Usually when that happens I take whatever I'm selling off of the broker and hand it over to the nearest vendor.Kinda humorous example:  A couple of days ago on the Unrest broker, there were little to no succulent roots for sale.  Like... less than 300 roots for sale, all for 1g or higher.  A few hours later, the broker refilled somewhat.  First guy undercut by a few silver (96s), then it just kept drastically dropping from there.  75s, 60s, 54s, 45s... Finally stopped at around 30s, which seems to be what people expect to get (minimum) for a succulent root.Or at least I found the situation humorous anyway.

[retro_guy]

I wish more people would undercut me by only 1cp, it's this players who undercut by many gold or pp that annoy me.There might be only 2-3 items of a very rare item on the market, something that can easily get 1.5pp and someone prices it at 80gp. They don't even use a sales crate (or havn't paid their rent) so I can't buy the item and resell it without making a loss and don't really want to have more pp tied up in stock.I say Bring on the 1cp undercutters, death to those who continually undercut by large amounts and lower the price of items until it becomes worthless to stock.ALSO undercutting by 1cp does not mean that the price of the item will actually be 1cp less - you have 20 local market makrup, you have 40% black market markup, you have 10% veteren box markup, you can visit the house or the seller to have no markup, so the final price is hidden away in the various markups which change depending on who is looking at the prices.Someone might be selling an item for 10gp, I price at 999sp, my item may or may not sell first, but I want it to appear close to the top of the search list, I don't have time to calculate every possible markup to work out what price it needs to be to appear first. But by slightly undercutting e.g. 10pp (cut to 999gp) 10gp (cut to 999sp) 10sp (cut to 999cp) I don't lower the market price significantly.BTW in most cases I'm setting the prices and having to deal with people who have no clue they can get 10x more for their items, or what their item actualy costs to make (e.g. has anyone made any money from repair kits on their carpenter since about the first week they were released, everytime I check the market they are up for sale at under cost?)

[DngrMou]

<cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wish more people would undercut me by only 1cp, it's this players who undercut by many gold or pp that annoy me.</blockquote><p> /wave</p><p>I tried that this weekend, to see what would happen.  When someone undercut me, I in turn undercut by 10 to 20 gold.  I think I singlehandedly drove the price for some rare collection items down by a lot.  There's some serious profit potential there....though not without risk.  A savvy merchanter could always come along and snap up the cheap goods, and relist them at higher prices before I do.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

I have deliberately driven prices down when I felt they were ridiculous.  Like 7g for a totem that costs 15s to produce.

[sorinev]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have deliberately driven prices down when I felt they were ridiculous.  Like 7g for a totem that costs 15s to produce.</blockquote>/hug!Or 2g for a T2/T3 power regen totem. I have 7 crafters and I know for a fact that T2 and T3 don't cost a fraction of that to make. Although for T2 I should probably just get my carpenter to make some for my alts that need them. <span style="font-size: xx-small;">::waits for someone to come in spouting supply & deman high school lecture::</span>