No Iksar starting area in RoK? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

09-17-2007, 01:23 AM

Well, ok, thanks for the feedback. But... let me clarify...1) More than one spoke in the second person. Note I do not play an Ikkie now. No self respecting Ikkie would reside in Neriak, or even less in any of the other town inhabited by soft-skins. I was waiting for Kunark to roll my new Ikkie. Guess what I can do with that idea now... 2) Aye I know about Cabilis. I was hoping they would make a new starting area... CoM, was my big hope. 3) I have always wanted to ally myself with VS. I mean... isn't he the only one truly trying to re-establish the former glory of the Empire? I never got that part of the lore in EQ, I have to admit that. Why was it that Ikkies hated VS? 4) Ops i didn't even think about High Elves. I guess that's how much I care for that race.... but, you are right. Now that I think about it, that's horrible. I mean... I know, this is a new game, but... but... if you make Kunark, give me Cabilis. If you make Fayder, give me... how the heck you spell that... Felwthie? I am sure I butchered it. Otherwise, it feels like a big slap in the face. 5) Allright, all the above are poor arguments. I just want Cabilis, FoB, Kurn's and to hunt giants in the Woods for those stupid earrings. Btw... is it just me not to care about Saranak? Talk about a race I couldn't care less about playing. Maybe because I farmed them to boredom in EQ, but they just have no appeal. Now, a succubus... that would have been new. Ok, maybe not. But... I dunno. I have a new idea... how about a starting area for the Ikkies? Could make it a swampy town, like Venice gone bad, with some necros in a tower. I even have a name for it... Cabilis.

Sylaz

09-17-2007, 02:32 AM

<cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a new idea... how about a starting area for the Ikkies? Could make it a swampy town, like Venice gone bad, with some necros in a tower. I even have a name for it... Cabilis. </blockquote>Ooh ooh! I like that one!Anyways, as far as I can tell (I'm a die hard Iksar fan, to the point that if it were possible to physically become one in real life, I think I'd almost have to) there's really not just a whole lot of reason for them to hate Venril.He went to Innoruuk to become a lich, which is really the only bad point. The Iksar have a tendency to fear the darker magics of the world, because they saw what happened to the Shissar when they delved too deep into forbidden knowledge. That being said however, the Necromancers in the Brood of Kotiz did some questionable things, although the rest of Cabilis tended to stay away from them. The main reason I feel Venril was labled as a traitor is that he went to Innoruuk instead of Cazic-Thule. Attempting to thwart death and gain untold power just seems like it is something of a natural desire for the Iksar.Now if you consider that since then, the empire has collapsed, efforts to restore it haven't been working out, then Venril comes back and we're in the days of EQ1. Never really gaining too much progress (and from what I could tell not trying too very hard) Cabilis doesn't develop much over the years. Next we really know is that during The Rending Kunark was torn apart, and the Lake of Ill Omen overflowed flooding most of Cabilis.Now, it seems to me, that if Venril were to step forward, and claim the title of emperor once again, and begin to lead his people to once again take over Kunark, few would actually try to stop him at this point. Not only that, but it seems as though he has had some sort of success, further placing him back onto the throne. This would make twice that he has led the Iksar to nearly controlling all of Kunark, and considering how the Iksar tend to respect those with power, probably in no small part due to a fear of them, it only seems right that we should be allowed to side with him.Now, all that is assuming he isn't going on some radical shift of Iksar ideals, and trying to get everyone else to follow. If there's one thing the Iksar don't seem to like it's messing around with tradition.

LordPazuzu

09-17-2007, 02:55 AM

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 03:39 AM

<cite>LordPazuzu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Iksar get the same treatment in ROK that the high elves got in Faydwer.YOUR RACE DOESN'T WANT YOU ANYMORE!Venril Sathir is regarded as the enemy to all iksar kind. From your eyes, you should be seeing it that the current iksar empire on Kunark is the enemy. No self-respecting iksar would willingly follow a traitor to his race.</blockquote>Venril Sathir was never a race traitor. He was the emperor who united the 5 tribal states and founded the original empire. Sure, he did it with an iron fist, but then again, the Iksar are evil... The original glory of the Iksar as well as their current resurgence are both attributed to Venril Sathir. Hardly a race traitor. More than likely he's the single greatest Iksar that ever lived. </blockquote>Yep. He was. According to this excerpt from EverQuest I Lore, he was to perform a ritual and sell his soul to Innoruuk for immortality. Rile, hearing of this plot, killed him before he could accomplish this, and took the throne.It was Rile who is generally credited as being the greatest Iksar hero to live for all of his accomplishments. Venril betrayed his race, his god, and his empire for immortality. When he was ressurected by the Cult of the Arisen in Rile's Body, he began a quiet little war of his own against the empire, building an army of undead against them.

Cusashorn

09-17-2007, 09:34 AM

Trust Dreyco on this folks. He knows more about Iksar lore than I do.

Xanrn

09-17-2007, 10:36 AM

How many of the other races have their own starting area, why the hell should Iksar get special treatment.Did you forget who the Iksar were fighting in Ruins of Kunar, Venril Sathir among others.

Kaitar

09-17-2007, 10:57 AM

Honestly I'm not too surprised at all they don't get their own starting city. I mean yes, it probably has upset a lot of Iksar players but really... if Venril is in charge in Kunark now because of the shattering and all that other crap that's happened, he's not going to want any opposition and the Iksar of Freeport would most likely -be- opposition. People state that Iksar were always nice to one another and this doesnt make sense... well, there are lots of points in the old Lore that kind of proves this wrong. Iksar have had strife within their own race as well as with everyone else since their tribes were first forming up and fighting clan wars after they were freed from their slavery by the green mist.I've also heard that the "new" Iksar god Ssyllok will play a part in this expansion. I find this to be really cool since, Lore wise, SOE states that most Freeport Iksar had turned their backs on Cazic Thule and started their own religion. Yet you know, tons of Iksar still run around ranting about Thule and I never see one mention Ssyllok. I'd love to meet an Iksar who actually worshiped Ssyllok just once instead of the usual;"When we get back to Kunark you'll pay in the name of Thule!......oh wait. Venril is there. Oh wait, they're going to consider us heretics. Oh wait, that's right... most of us worship Ssyllok now, or were supposed to...... DOH!!"It should be fun to watch what happens. I still expect a mass exodus of Iksar to Kunark one way or another.

Kalem

09-17-2007, 11:48 AM

Ogres, and Dark Elves in Freeport never made sense. Let alone the Iksar. The most hated race. I give huge props to Vhalen for writing up the lore to make it all work. I'm sure he wasn't pleased with the decision for EQ2 to contain just two starting cities! I'll always believe the decision for the 2 original starting cities was one to save time and money. The lore then had to be written to fit that bad decision.Could the dwarves have survived without moving to Qeynos? Of course. Look at the dwarves outside of Kaladim. They built an outpost to live in while they gain the strength to fight back against the Kobalds and Bugbears. The same could be said of most races. Did the Ogres really need Lucan? I really don't think so. This is a powerful race, a race made for war. They gained their intellect back. After the shattering, they could have easily built a new outpost, and defended it with ease. It makes sense to me that the Frogloks would head to Qeynos, since they were close allies. I can buy the haflings heading to Qeynos as well, since the race itself is not a fighting race...while individual adventurers may be, the race as a whole isn't.Tierdal moving into Freeport. That one just really bugged me. A race that thought of themselves as superior, would pledge themselves to Lucan? Foci, or no Foci, it just never felt right.Trolls I could understand somewhat. After all, they did flee to Neriak in EQ1 when the Frogloks took Grobb from them. They were never a bright race...strong yes, bright no.Of all the races, the Iksar finding their way into Freeport made the least sense to me.Now that time has past, and expansions are being made, they should re-introduce some of the old starting areas. Like Rivervale. It would be great, and very dynamic if the hafling with the aid of the other neutral and good races, took it back. The zone would have to change, and quests would have to shift. But darn, something like that would be awesome, instead of the same static zones. They could move that level 30-40 content to adjacent zones (new zones). They could eventually do the same for Tunaria, and Kaladim, perhaps through a series of live events.Lore wise, I could understand the Iksar of Kunark not wanting anything to do with the Iksar of Freeport, since they would be considered traitors, and weak. It's having Iksar in Freeport in the first place that I have issues with.

Lightstrider

09-17-2007, 12:41 PM

I don't have the same problem with this lore situation. When EQ2 came out, the original concept was that there would be two opposed cities, good and evil. Evil folk would naturally drift to Freeport, and good to Qeynos, for the most part. If you try to imagine what the immediate aftermath of the rending was like, the panic and mayhem, then the Isle of Refuge made perfect sense as a place where you gathered your wits before heading back to what remained of civilization. The Iksar went to Freeport because the alternative was Qeynos, and they sure didn't belong there. Freeport was willing to have them because they were more servants for Lucan, who wants to rule everyone. The game has now shifted from this two-city focus, of course, but I find the reasoning logical.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 12:58 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Iksar get the same treatment in ROK that the high elves got in Faydwer.YOUR RACE DOESN'T WANT YOU ANYMORE!Venril Sathir is regarded as the enemy to all iksar kind. From your eyes, you should be seeing it that the current iksar empire on Kunark is the enemy. No self-respecting iksar would willingly follow a traitor to his race.</blockquote>Um well the Elves are seeming allied or corupted by the Vampires. So it sorta makes sence they are rejecting their own kind and any race that tries to go in. You konw what doesnt make sence the Dark Elves after 500 years letting ALL evil races into Neriak. That make less sence then the high elves killing every player character that enters New Tunaria. The Iksar HATE freeport but dont have any other way (cept neriak and that makes no sence at all) they were slaves killed and tortured by the overlord and want nothing to do witht he soft skins. And from what we know Venril Sathir is now leading most of the iksar to conquer all of the conteant. So it would seem that he's leader to almost ALL iksar kind not the enemy of iksar kind. Sathir is a Litch, Lucan De'lere is a Litch. Iksar would much rather follow an Iksar litch and help conquer anything not Iksar then be under a Softskined litch that had enslaved the Iksar. If they Dark Elvs are magicly nice leting ALL evil races in their city with out killing them on site surely the Iksar can let just the iksar back into there ranks to serve Sathir rather then Lucan.

Willias

09-17-2007, 01:37 PM

<cite>Kalem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of all the races, the Iksar finding their way into Freeport made the least sense to me.</blockquote>From my understanding, the playable iksar are the descendants of troops that were being sent to Visk, but lost their way during either the Rending or the Shattering. They were then rounded up and enslaved by Lucan.Quite frankly, I would think the iksar of Kunark would be a little enraged when they find out what has happened to their Shattered Lands brethren. As for Venril being seen as a traitor... the world ripping apart, giant meteors falling from the sky, and 500 years can do a lot to change the opinions of a person or people.It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 02:27 PM

<cite>Kaitar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yet you know, tons of Iksar still run around ranting about Thule and I never see one mention Ssyllok. I'd love to meet an Iksar who actually worshiped Ssyllok just once instead of the usual;"When we get back to Kunark you'll pay in the name of Thule!......oh wait. Venril is there. Oh wait, they're going to consider us heretics. Oh wait, that's right... most of us worship Ssyllok now, or were supposed to...... DOH!!"</blockquote>It might be different if we could actually worship Ssyllok. Even still, though, I would still probably go the traditional route of worshipping Papa Cazic, as I have with most of my characters. I was very disappointed to see Iksar wouldn't be able to move to Kunark, or if they could, they'd have to live with the hated Sarnak.

Kaitar

09-17-2007, 02:51 PM

Well again, from what I've heard rumor'ed around....can't say if it's true or not (hope it is, frankly) Ssyllok will come into play in ROK in some manner or another. Guildie of mine said a dev hinted at it somewhere on these forums.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 02:58 PM

<cite>Kaitar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well again, from what I've heard rumor'ed around....can't say if it's true or not (hope it is, frankly) Ssyllok will come into play in ROK in some manner or another. Guildie of mine said a dev hinted at it somewhere on these forums.</blockquote>Well, unless they're planning on it being a big surprise, I suspect Ssyllok's appearance will be that of a mob. They've said there will be 3 deities and Ssyllok isn't one of them.It could just be a baddy mob with some mind control capabilities, fooling players into thinking they are a deity.

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 03:10 PM

Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.

Kalem

09-17-2007, 03:38 PM

<cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't have the same problem with this lore situation. When EQ2 came out, the original concept was that there would be two opposed cities, good and evil. Evil folk would naturally drift to Freeport, and good to Qeynos, for the most part. If you try to imagine what the immediate aftermath of the rending was like, the panic and mayhem, then the Isle of Refuge made perfect sense as a place where you gathered your wits before heading back to what remained of civilization. The Iksar went to Freeport because the alternative was Qeynos, and they sure didn't belong there. Freeport was willing to have them because they were more servants for Lucan, who wants to rule everyone. The game has now shifted from this two-city focus, of course, but I find the reasoning logical.</blockquote>While it's true that a post cataclysmic world would be a scary, and very dangerous place, any race worth their salt would be able to regroup, starting off with camps, then moving on to building an outpost of some sort. I have a hard time believing that any of the Norathian races would be incapable of that. I could see some choosing Qeynos because it still stood, like the Barbarians, Halflings, and Woodelves, simply because they were strong allies of Qeynos in the past. Could they have survived against the orcs, goblins, bandits, and other mobs that litter Norath? You bet. The orcs and goblins survived fine without joining forces with Lucan. Orc vs Ogre...I'd give the victory to surviving Ogres over any surviving Orc tribes. Heck, I would consider any of the evil playable races in Norath to be just the thing that any other race would have to fear under such conditions. I would sure as heck fear running into a Troll much more than I would a goblin!I have no doubt that post cataclysm it took time for the Orc tribes to come back together, and or start new tribes. The same would be true for the goblins. Pretty much every race had it bad, and every race could have with some challenge setup an outpost/town of sorts, while they regained their wits.As for the Isle of Refuge, we were dropped off there after being rescued at sea. Those that were rescued...if I understand it correctly, lived on one of many islands in a chain of islands. These islands were part of Antonica at one point...or something like that. An individual rescued, and dropped on an island doesn't necessarily mean that individual would pledge their allegiance to Lucan. That still wouldn't explain why there wouldn't be other outposts or cities for the races. The Isle of Refuge was a quick way for the dev team to make the all races in 2 cities thing work.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 03:47 PM

Well, to borrow and example from comic books, here is how I see EQ vs EQ2:EQ2 is to EQ as Earth 2 is to Earth 1 (or if you're a Marvel fan, as Ultimate Marvel is to Marvel).They have many of the same themes and characters and locations, etc, but there are differences. Simply put, to my mind, Iksar in EQ2 aren't quite the same as Iksar in EQ. They're a bit more tolerant of other races. They're a bit more open to new ideas and religions.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 04:17 PM

Iksar are not tolerent Iksar want to go back home. Why then make all thoes new npcs all hopeing to go back home? Many of the NPCs when the game launched talked of home (cablis) and not being able to wait till they might return some day. The iksar are the same as they are in eq1 just forced to live in the filth with the dam ned soft skins. We want to go back home.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 04:20 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 04:22 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Iksar are not tolerent Iksar want to go back home. Why then make all thoes new npcs all hopeing to go back home? Many of the NPCs when the game launched talked of home (cablis) and not being able to wait till they might return some day. The iksar are the same as they are in eq1 just forced to live in the filth with the dam ned soft skins. We want to go back home. </blockquote>Respectfully, I disagree.If the Iksar were the same as EQ1, things would have turned out differently. All the stranded Iksar would have gathered together and made their own city. They would have stayed hidden until they got enough strength to attack either Freeport or Qeynos. There would be no betrayed Iksar. The only deity choice would be Cazic-Thule and the only professions would be Defiler, Necromancer, Guardian, Shadow Knight and Bruiser.The Iksar in EQ2 are hippies in comparison to EQ1 Iksar.

ke'la

09-17-2007, 04:55 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Iksar get the same treatment in ROK that the high elves got in Faydwer.YOUR RACE DOESN'T WANT YOU ANYMORE!Venril Sathir is regarded as the enemy to all iksar kind. From your eyes, you should be seeing it that the current iksar empire on Kunark is the enemy. No self-respecting iksar would willingly follow a traitor to his race.</blockquote>Um well the Elves are seeming allied or corupted by the Vampires. So it sorta makes sence they are rejecting their own kind and any race that tries to go in. You konw what doesnt make sence the Dark Elves after 500 years letting ALL evil races into Neriak. That make less sence then the high elves killing every player character that enters New Tunaria. The Iksar HATE freeport but dont have any other way (cept neriak and that makes no sence at all) they were slaves killed and tortured by the overlord and want nothing to do witht he soft skins. And from what we know Venril Sathir is now leading most of the iksar to conquer all of the conteant. So it would seem that he's leader to almost ALL iksar kind not the enemy of iksar kind. Sathir is a Litch, Lucan De'lere is a Litch. Iksar would much rather follow an Iksar litch and help conquer anything not Iksar then be under a Softskined litch that had enslaved the Iksar. If they Dark Elvs are magicly nice leting ALL evil races in their city with out killing them on site surely the Iksar can let just the iksar back into there ranks to serve Sathir rather then Lucan.</blockquote>What you don't seem to get is that Sathir does not CARE about YOUR desires he sees you as a Lapdog of Lucan weither you like it or not, as such YOU are not worthy of following HIM and YOU are a traitor you YOUR race therefor YOU must die. You can't join up with someone that thinks YOU are a blood traitor.As for no starting city in Kunark for Iksar, that also makes sence as all the new born of the True Iksar(those born on Kunark) would already have thier own city to live in. Now lets look at it from a game play standpoint, lets assume that they let you join the Iksar Empire, guess what the game is now compeltly over for you, why? because just about 75% of the content(the story line of the expaintion) is now not available to you, they are NOT going to create 2 paralle expaintions one for Iksar and one for everyone else.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 04:58 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now lets look at it from a game play standpoint, lets assume that they let you join the Iksar Empire, guess what the game is now compeltly over for you, why? because just about 75% of the content(the story line of the expaintion) is now not available to you, they are NOT going to create 2 paralle expaintions one for Iksar and one for everyone else.</blockquote>That's not necessarily a given. They could write the content so that it's players vs Iksar Empire, but it doesn't *have* to be written that way.

ke'la

09-17-2007, 05:09 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>I think that after the 20th or so that Iksar born in FP that tried to get in good with Venril came back vivisected, the rest of the FP Iksar would deside that maybe Lucan is not that bad after all.Remember, being able to aline with someone requires the permition of BOTH sides of the alinement if one of those two sides takes one look at you, and then carves you up for dinner, its kinda hard to form an alliance.

Yella

09-17-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>Kalem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lore wise, I could understand the Iksar of Kunark not wanting anything to do with the Iksar of Freeport, since they would be considered traitors, and weak. It's having Iksar in Freeport in the first place that I have issues with.</blockquote>Why? my warrior was welcomed there in EQ1, and loved by the paladins, monks and bards. Other than a few class areas (notably the clerics, casters and warriors) and some non-freeport faction NPCs, she could move freely about the city. Iksar were not initially welcomed, but they didnt need to choose between Cabilis and Freeport, they could be non-kos in both cities. As soon as my lizard was strong enough to faction up, she moved to Antonica and eventually made Freeport her headquarters (well, until the nexus opened up). It was kind of fun in those days, I must have been one of the first Iksar to do the faction work since I would allways get stopped by people there amazed to see an Iksar strolling about the city unmolested <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 05:18 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>That depends on the outlook of the Iksar.If the Iksar hold any respect for their heritage, their past, their history, etc, then they would be 100% vehemantly opposed to Venril for what he did. His actions were not small in any way. He IS the GREATEST traitor to ever live in Iksar History.If the Iksar doesn't give a crud about that kind of stuff, then yeah, I could see them wanting to ally with Venril JUST to get out of Freeport.Iksar have a respect for authority, yes, though they are EXTREMELY vehement when it comes to Purity, Ancestry, Heritage, and History.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 05:18 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>I think that after the 20th or so that Iksar born in FP that tried to get in good with Venril came back vivisected, the rest of the FP Iksar would deside that maybe Lucan is not that bad after all.Remember, being able to aline with someone requires the permition of BOTH sides of the alinement if one of those two sides takes one look at you, and then carves you up for dinner, its kinda hard to form an alliance.</blockquote>I mentiond in a previous post that it doesnt make sence for the dark elf to just let EVERY one back in to Neriak when the High elfs wont let ANYONE back into their city. So it seem the evil races are more "forgiveing" then the good races. And sure we might be a trator to Venril but i doubt we'd see him first off. You could have a series of quest to gain faction. Venril would be a fool to go agiant Freeport with out some acurate intelligence from peoeple that were there. Not only would Freeport Iksar beable to provide Venril with info on freeport many iksar adventurers would ally them selfs with Venril would make his army even more vast then it already is. Venril is no fool. So after we have proven our selfs to him he could at the very least put us in the front lines if nothing else. Oh and none of the Iksar adventuerers were born in freeport they were all washed up so could many of the NPCs of freeport. The only born iksar adventurers would be thoes born in neriak while it was sealed off for 500 years. (how they got there im a little bit fuzy on.) So since we were not "born" in freeport for all he konws we could have been a spy party that got washed up and stranded because the seas were so ruggid. It seems only now boats from kunark are makeing there way out to freeport and qeynos so its not that farfetched an idea.

ke'la

09-17-2007, 05:19 PM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now lets look at it from a game play standpoint, lets assume that they let you join the Iksar Empire, guess what the game is now compeltly over for you, why? because just about 75% of the content(the story line of the expaintion) is now not available to you, they are NOT going to create 2 paralle expaintions one for Iksar and one for everyone else.</blockquote>That's not necessarily a given. They could write the content so that it's players vs Iksar Empire, but it doesn't *have* to be written that way.</blockquote>you mean they could have made it so the Sarnak Ruled Kunark? where the Iksar where a nearly beatten and bloodied people in hiding barly haning on to a relitivly small piece of the contentant. Yeah, I guess they could of turned the Iksar Empire into a bunch of pancies. If they didn't do what they did or what I just discribed then RoK would have NOT included a LvL cap increase as it would not have been a "More Dangerous Place" lorewise. So the choice is super weak Iksar subserviant to Sarnak, that you could join with, or a resergant Iksar Empire that hates your guts and will kill you on site as a blood traitor.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 05:24 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>That depends on the outlook of the Iksar.If the Iksar hold any respect for their heritage, their past, their history, etc, then they would be 100% vehemantly opposed to Venril for what he did. His actions were not small in any way. He IS the GREATEST traitor to ever live in Iksar History.If the Iksar doesn't give a crud about that kind of stuff, then yeah, I could see them wanting to ally with Venril JUST to get out of Freeport.Iksar have a respect for authority, yes, though they are EXTREMELY vehement when it comes to Purity, Ancestry, Heritage, and History.</blockquote>Then how has probaly 90% of the Kunarkian Iksar following Venril doing his bidding? They were the ones there that should be big on there heritage history and ancestry? It just doent follow. The iksar of freeport would be probaly even MORE willing to follow Venril then the ones in Kunark just to get out from under the softskined Overlord

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 05:25 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now lets look at it from a game play standpoint, lets assume that they let you join the Iksar Empire, guess what the game is now compeltly over for you, why? because just about 75% of the content(the story line of the expaintion) is now not available to you, they are NOT going to create 2 paralle expaintions one for Iksar and one for everyone else.</blockquote>That's not necessarily a given. They could write the content so that it's players vs Iksar Empire, but it doesn't *have* to be written that way.</blockquote>you mean they could have made it so the Sarnak Ruled Kunark? where the Iksar where a nearly beatten and bloodied people in hiding barly haning on to a relitivly small piece of the contentant. Yeah, I guess they could of turned the Iksar Empire into a bunch of pancies. If they didn't do what they did or what I just discribed then RoK would have NOT included a LvL cap increase as it would not have been a "More Dangerous Place" lorewise. So the choice is super weak Iksar subserviant to Sarnak, that you could join with, or a resergant Iksar Empire that hates your guts and will kill you on site as a blood traitor.</blockquote>Those aren't the only choices.It could have been pretty simple, actually. They could have done something SoV-esque and had multiple factions all relatively equally powerful. RoS, Sarnak and Cabilis.Or something else where the goods are attempting to retake Firiona Vie, Sarnak are against them and Cabilis both but accept non-Iksar neutrals and evils, and Cabilis accepts Iksar, with RoS against everyone all the way around.

ke'la

09-17-2007, 05:27 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>I think that after the 20th or so that Iksar born in FP that tried to get in good with Venril came back vivisected, the rest of the FP Iksar would deside that maybe Lucan is not that bad after all.Remember, being able to aline with someone requires the permition of BOTH sides of the alinement if one of those two sides takes one look at you, and then carves you up for dinner, its kinda hard to form an alliance.</blockquote>I mentiond in a previous post that it doesnt make sence for the dark elf to just let EVERY one back in to Neriak when the High elfs wont let ANYONE back into their city. So it seem the evil races are more "forgiveing" then the good races. And sure we might be a trator to Venril but i doubt we'd see him first off. You could have a series of quest to gain faction. Venril would be a fool to go agiant Freeport with out some acurate intelligence from peoeple that were there. Not only would Freeport Iksar beable to provide Venril with info on freeport many iksar adventurers would ally them selfs with Venril would make his army even more vast then it already is. Venril is no fool. So after we have proven our selfs to him he could at the very least put us in the front lines if nothing else. Oh and none of the Iksar adventuerers were born in freeport they were all washed up so could many of the NPCs of freeport. The only born iksar adventurers would be thoes born in neriak while it was sealed off for 500 years. (how they got there im a little bit fuzy on.) So since we were not "born" in freeport for all he konws we could have been a spy party that got washed up and stranded because the seas were so ruggid. It seems only now boats from kunark are makeing there way out to freeport and qeynos so its not that farfetched an idea.</blockquote>Let me make things more clear. You step off the boat from FP into Kunark, there is an Iksar thier, you walk over and say "Hi brother Iksar I have been waiting for the path from FP to Kunark to open and now that it is here I am". The Iksar says to you while sticking a knife in your heart "TRAITOR!!!". Yeah, I think you can earn thier trust.As for bad guys being fools? Well its never stoped them befor. Besides the Iksar Empire is already activly destroying Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas, AND Pirate ships all over the Seas of Norath, do you really think they care about what the other side is capable of. One of the overriding factors in all of History when you look at Evil people is a supreme case of over confidance.

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 05:27 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>I think that after the 20th or so that Iksar born in FP that tried to get in good with Venril came back vivisected, the rest of the FP Iksar would deside that maybe Lucan is not that bad after all.Remember, being able to aline with someone requires the permition of BOTH sides of the alinement if one of those two sides takes one look at you, and then carves you up for dinner, its kinda hard to form an alliance.</blockquote>I mentiond in a previous post that it doesnt make sence for the dark elf to just let EVERY one back in to Neriak when the High elfs wont let ANYONE back into their city. So it seem the evil races are more "forgiveing" then the good races. And sure we might be a trator to Venril but i doubt we'd see him first off. You could have a series of quest to gain faction. Venril would be a fool to go agiant Freeport with out some acurate intelligence from peoeple that were there. Not only would Freeport Iksar beable to provide Venril with info on freeport many iksar adventurers would ally them selfs with Venril would make his army even more vast then it already is. Venril is no fool. So after we have proven our selfs to him he could at the very least put us in the front lines if nothing else. Oh and none of the Iksar adventuerers were born in freeport they were all washed up so could many of the NPCs of freeport. The only born iksar adventurers would be thoes born in neriak while it was sealed off for 500 years. (how they got there im a little bit fuzy on.) So since we were not "born" in freeport for all he konws we could have been a spy party that got washed up and stranded because the seas were so ruggid. It seems only now boats from kunark are makeing there way out to freeport and qeynos so its not that farfetched an idea.</blockquote>This also blew my mind just a little bit. I mean, Neriak was a stronghold of the Dark Elves. They had a foreign quarter, but even then, they weren't very tolerant of other races, much less Iksar.Iksar, of all races, have absolutely no place in Neriak. They were not only at war with the Dark Elves upon Kunark with the Cult of the Arisen, it was them with the help of Venril Sathir that the "Pale skinned fleshlings" came to establish the OUtpost of Firiona Vie in the first place.They aren't exactly on happy terms. hehe.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 05:32 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>I think the Iksar will do anything to be back home and be with their people. even join Venril. I can see them being eager to join Venril if they think they can have revenge on freeport and the overlord for the enslavement and shame the iksar were put through. </blockquote>I think that after the 20th or so that Iksar born in FP that tried to get in good with Venril came back vivisected, the rest of the FP Iksar would deside that maybe Lucan is not that bad after all.Remember, being able to aline with someone requires the permition of BOTH sides of the alinement if one of those two sides takes one look at you, and then carves you up for dinner, its kinda hard to form an alliance.</blockquote>I mentiond in a previous post that it doesnt make sence for the dark elf to just let EVERY one back in to Neriak when the High elfs wont let ANYONE back into their city. So it seem the evil races are more "forgiveing" then the good races. And sure we might be a trator to Venril but i doubt we'd see him first off. You could have a series of quest to gain faction. Venril would be a fool to go agiant Freeport with out some acurate intelligence from peoeple that were there. Not only would Freeport Iksar beable to provide Venril with info on freeport many iksar adventurers would ally them selfs with Venril would make his army even more vast then it already is. Venril is no fool. So after we have proven our selfs to him he could at the very least put us in the front lines if nothing else. Oh and none of the Iksar adventuerers were born in freeport they were all washed up so could many of the NPCs of freeport. The only born iksar adventurers would be thoes born in neriak while it was sealed off for 500 years. (how they got there im a little bit fuzy on.) So since we were not "born" in freeport for all he konws we could have been a spy party that got washed up and stranded because the seas were so ruggid. It seems only now boats from kunark are makeing there way out to freeport and qeynos so its not that farfetched an idea.</blockquote>Let me make things more clear. You step off the boat from FP into Kunark, there is an Iksar thier, you walk over and say "Hi brother Iksar I have been waiting for the path from FP to Kunark to open and now that it is here I am". The Iksar says to you while sticking a knife in your heart "TRAITOR!!!". Yeah, I think you can earn thier trust.As for bad guys being fools? Well its never stoped them befor. Besides the Iksar Empire is already activly destroying Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas, AND Pirate ships all over the Seas of Norath, do you really think they care about what the other side is capable of. One of the overriding factors in all of History when you look at Evil people is a supreme case of over confidance.</blockquote>You wouldnt nesicarily say Hey look i came from freeport please kill me. No youd do something to prove your self first. Say something like you were shipwrecked how many years ago. I konw its like 50 or more years game time but one dev said not to take game time literaly. So lets say its been 5 years tell them you were shiprecked 5 years ago. you dont have to go into the specifics of your loyaltys and join back up with them. Once you have earned trust and have high faction then you can say whlie i was shipwreked I was able to find out some stuff about freeport that maybe of some importance to venril. You make it like we are a trator and have been all our lives. We WERE shipwrecked and it might not have been too teriblly long ago we could have been from Kunark and we could have been some one already under venril but were forced to blend in with the iksar in freeport.

09-17-2007, 05:41 PM

<cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote>I won't even get into the lore of it... Iksar in Freeport made little sense, Iksar in Neriak just none at all, so Iksar fighting Iksar is not going to keep me awake at nigth (well, ok, that is me, I understand how lore fans would just be disgusted by the treatment of Ikkies...). But, after all, the first ten levels on Zerp were gained killing thouse outcast ikkies in the field of bone, so... But... but.... I want my Cabilis. Kunark was a very unique starting area and it would be great to be able to live that once more. The new ikky faction, hated by everyone, is what we used to play and it is what I would love to play once more. Bribing NE with red wine to get into neriak, or slaughter hassligs for it, now that was fun. </blockquote>It always gets me how people that supposedly understand the concept of lore just DO NOT GET IT.EQ2's Norrath went throught a cataclismic event. The races had to allign themselves for survival more so than tradition.Imagine that if a huge meteor hit the earth right now... The US is a veritable mix of races... Racism today exists although not as much as say 50-100 years ago... But a major event like that would make race completely irrelivant. The US would re-develop a new culture and society with only vague understanding of its history ( Say this even set us back to Middle Ages technology and lifestyle) 500 years later... North American's rediscover Eurrope... does a person that lived in the US for that period of time have ANYTHING in common with someone that lived in Europe? besides a common DNA history?This is the state of the EQ universe. Qeynos and Freeport were multi ethnic safe havens. The homelands (even in EQ1) were never very open to outside races, and just became more close minded after the cataclism (see New Tunaria). I don't know what the Iksar nation has done since then, but seeing as they were all followers of Cazic Thule... and fear is the greatest motivator for ignorace and racial seperatism, it makes 100% sense that they've become a hateful, vial, fear-mongering society (which to them would make them just that much stronger).... and as in New Tunaria, anyone that isn't part of their society is an outside, even those who may have at one point shared their bloodline. Just from the little I've read on RoK lore... the Sanark and Iksar were at war at some point... so I doubt they'd be to happy having the known enemy living in their walls. Other outsider races (the ones that can start their) sure... The Sanark lost that war, so forming allies with other wanderers would have been more likely, esp if they really needed the support to get back on their feet.Again... all I'm saying is that the EQ2 lore maps to reality in many ways. if you think it's illogical then you're biased and just don't like how its worked out for your "people"... which also makes sense... I suppose we all like to beleive that our people are perfect and above reproach... even if its in a fantasy universe.

ke'la

09-17-2007, 05:43 PM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now lets look at it from a game play standpoint, lets assume that they let you join the Iksar Empire, guess what the game is now compeltly over for you, why? because just about 75% of the content(the story line of the expaintion) is now not available to you, they are NOT going to create 2 paralle expaintions one for Iksar and one for everyone else.</blockquote>That's not necessarily a given. They could write the content so that it's players vs Iksar Empire, but it doesn't *have* to be written that way.</blockquote>you mean they could have made it so the Sarnak Ruled Kunark? where the Iksar where a nearly beatten and bloodied people in hiding barly haning on to a relitivly small piece of the contentant. Yeah, I guess they could of turned the Iksar Empire into a bunch of pancies. If they didn't do what they did or what I just discribed then RoK would have NOT included a LvL cap increase as it would not have been a "More Dangerous Place" lorewise. So the choice is super weak Iksar subserviant to Sarnak, that you could join with, or a resergant Iksar Empire that hates your guts and will kill you on site as a blood traitor.</blockquote>Those aren't the only choices.It could have been pretty simple, actually. They could have done something SoV-esque and had multiple factions all relatively equally powerful. RoS, Sarnak and Cabilis.Or something else where the goods are attempting to retake Firiona Vie, Sarnak are against them and Cabilis both but accept non-Iksar neutrals and evils, and Cabilis accepts Iksar, with RoS against everyone all the way around.</blockquote>So you are saying they should have gone with DoF mark two and had no True City(like Maj'dul) because thats the only way that would have worked. Yes it would have "worked" just like Maj'dul and DoF "worked". As you can't have a Starting city thats has a 70+ zone right outside it's front door wich is what would have happened in that case. You see you need Lore reasons for 3 differant mechanics in this expaintion if you are going to have the expaintion the way it currently is. <ol><li>You need a Massive Power or Waring factions to make the place your going to more dangerous, in order to get a lvl cap increase.</li><li>You need to have an area that new players can start in and lvl up</li><li>You need a reason those players leave at lvl 20ish and goto the "old world" befor coming back once they are strong enough, or you need new zones all the way from 1 to 80.</li></ol>In order to have 2 you can't go with Waring factions in 1 because factions will always have thier strongest troops at the front doors of the enemy cities, wich means Newbe death. That leaves Massive Power in order to have the lvl cap go up. Now as for 3 we again have 2 choices we can let them lvl up inside the zone and add even more width to a game that many already beleave is too wide, or they can give a reason for the Newbe to leave, and then comeback more powerful. Well the only reason to leave in that senario is if the faction your a part of is WAY to weak to defend you against the Massive Power.Can you come up with a senario where there is 1 Massive Power, 1 Faction fighting that power, and where that faction has to send it's kids away to get more powerful befor comming back to defend it? And have it not be a Weak down trodden race, beated almost to exteniction, thats in hidding?

ke'la

09-17-2007, 05:50 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite>Let me make things more clear. You step off the boat from FP into Kunark, there is an Iksar thier, you walk over and say "Hi brother Iksar I have been waiting for the path from FP to Kunark to open and now that it is here I am". The Iksar says to you while sticking a knife in your heart "TRAITOR!!!". Yeah, I think you can earn thier trust.As for bad guys being fools? Well its never stoped them befor. Besides the Iksar Empire is already activly destroying Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas, AND Pirate ships all over the Seas of Norath, do you really think they care about what the other side is capable of. One of the overriding factors in all of History when you look at Evil people is a supreme case of over confidance.</blockquote>You wouldnt nesicarily say Hey look i came from freeport please kill me. No youd do something to prove your self first. Say something like you were shipwrecked how many years ago. I konw its like 50 or more years game time but one dev said not to take game time literaly. So lets say its been 5 years tell them you were shiprecked 5 years ago. you dont have to go into the specifics of your loyaltys and join back up with them. Once you have earned trust and have high faction then you can say whlie i was shipwreked I was able to find out some stuff about freeport that maybe of some importance to venril. You make it like we are a trator and have been all our lives. We WERE shipwrecked and it might not have been too teriblly long ago we could have been from Kunark and we could have been some one already under venril but were forced to blend in with the iksar in freeport. </blockquote>Ok, where did you find the boat of Kunarkian Design to land on Kunark in... oh, you didn't its a Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas or Pirate ship... then the senario is this, you get off the boat, and twang an arrow in your brain pan as you just showed up on a ship that is allined with a people the Empire is at war with.

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 05:51 PM

No, it does make some sense. Though despite the fact that those cataclysms happen, and races mix, that doesn't mean that everything just becomes a huge blob of junk that has no shape beside the mass that it has taken.Even if cataclysms were to shake planet Earth, cultures would, to some degree, remain cultures. Ethnicities, religions, etc, would hold fast, because that is what gives people strength. The Iksar, of all people, are some of the most fervant of all Norrath's races when it comes to this.While it may not mean that Kunark is currently a place that this will happen, that doesn't mean that it's a shortcoming of the Iksar who live in Freeport. I believe what is being pointed out is the fact that ASIDE from Kunark, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense with the way some things are being established, EXCEPT that 'it makes sense mechanics wise, so we shall make it make sense lore wise'.

09-17-2007, 05:51 PM

<blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite>This also blew my mind just a little bit. I mean, Neriak was a stronghold of the Dark Elves. They had a foreign quarter, but even then, they weren't very tolerant of other races, much less Iksar.Iksar, of all races, have absolutely no place in Neriak. They were not only at war with the Dark Elves upon Kunark with the Cult of the Arisen, it was them with the help of Venril Sathir that the "Pale skinned fleshlings" came to establish the OUtpost of Firiona Vie in the first place.They aren't exactly on happy terms. hehe.</blockquote>After the entire world as you know it gets blown to heII, and your gods up and take off... THINGS CHANGE!!If you know an FP lore or have done any quests in Fallen Gate, you'd know that some DEs have held to the old beleifs... but the vast majority (including all player characters) have desided that survival was more important that traditional differences.I think you're all missing the HUGE historical events that took place between EQ1 and EQ2... Those are the kinds of events that change civilizations in irrepairable ways. Qeynos is now an intollerant monarchy, Freeport is a dictatorship, New Tunaria Elves became racial serperatists... etc... The poor dwarves ... lost it alll... Which IMHO is a far worst fate than the High Elves that at least know they aren't an endangered species entirely. Maybe the frozen dwarf city survived... That'd be nice... and I'd bet anything the Erudites found a way to survive... But those are tales for future discovery.

Kalem

09-17-2007, 05:58 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote>I won't even get into the lore of it... Iksar in Freeport made little sense, Iksar in Neriak just none at all, so Iksar fighting Iksar is not going to keep me awake at nigth (well, ok, that is me, I understand how lore fans would just be disgusted by the treatment of Ikkies...). But, after all, the first ten levels on Zerp were gained killing thouse outcast ikkies in the field of bone, so... But... but.... I want my Cabilis. Kunark was a very unique starting area and it would be great to be able to live that once more. The new ikky faction, hated by everyone, is what we used to play and it is what I would love to play once more. Bribing NE with red wine to get into neriak, or slaughter hassligs for it, now that was fun. </blockquote>It always gets me how people that supposedly understand the concept of lore just DO NOT GET IT.EQ2's Norrath went throught a cataclismic event. The races had to allign themselves for survival more so than tradition.Imagine that if a huge meteor hit the earth right now... The US is a veritable mix of races... Racism today exists although not as much as say 50-100 years ago... But a major event like that would make race completely irrelivant. The US would re-develop a new culture and society with only vague understanding of its history ( Say this even set us back to Middle Ages technology and lifestyle) 500 years later... North American's rediscover Eurrope... does a person that lived in the US for that period of time have ANYTHING in common with someone that lived in Europe? besides a common DNA history?This is the state of the EQ universe. Qeynos and Freeport were multi ethnic safe havens. The homelands (even in EQ1) were never very open to outside races, and just became more close minded after the cataclism (see New Tunaria). I don't know what the Iksar nation has done since then, but seeing as they were all followers of Cazic Thule... and fear is the greatest motivator for ignorace and racial seperatism, it makes 100% sense that they've become a hateful, vial, fear-mongering society (which to them would make them just that much stronger).... and as in New Tunaria, anyone that isn't part of their society is an outside, even those who may have at one point shared their bloodline. Just from the little I've read on RoK lore... the Sanark and Iksar were at war at some point... so I doubt they'd be to happy having the known enemy living in their walls. Other outsider races (the ones that can start their) sure... The Sanark lost that war, so forming allies with other wanderers would have been more likely, esp if they really needed the support to get back on their feet.Again... all I'm saying is that the EQ2 lore maps to reality in many ways. if you think it's illogical then you're biased and just don't like how its worked out for your "people"... which also makes sense... I suppose we all like to beleive that our people are perfect and above reproach... even if its in a fantasy universe. </blockquote>Had to bond together? Why didn't the orcs join Lucan? Why didn't the goblins join? Why didn't the sirens? Why didn't the centaurs? Why didn't the giants? These other races are clearly weaker than those you can play as, yet they survived fine. I think what several of us are saying is that in a catastrophic event, beings of the same race would bond together to restart over. Those that were already allies to begin with would come to each others aid. Those that were enemies would be looked at as slaves, or someone to conquer and take away their goods.We're talking about a fictional land where people are very hardy, and magic abounds. Of people who come together to conquer great obstacles. Surely these people could even if with some difficulty establish their own homes, rather than moving into the only two real cities that survived in old Antonica.Come on...we do know that the two city thing was done as a means to get the product that we all enjoy out the door in a reasonable time. The lore around it, no matter how good it is...and it is good (props to Vhalen), still can't satisfy the questions of why...why oh why would such powerful races move into Freeport and submit to the will of a man. I don't think any answer will satisfy that. But the damage is done. That's the way they released the game. What I would like to see now, in future expansions, is the retaking of old cities. There's some pride...quite a bit of pride, in your character having his/her own starting city!

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 05:59 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite>This also blew my mind just a little bit. I mean, Neriak was a stronghold of the Dark Elves. They had a foreign quarter, but even then, they weren't very tolerant of other races, much less Iksar.Iksar, of all races, have absolutely no place in Neriak. They were not only at war with the Dark Elves upon Kunark with the Cult of the Arisen, it was them with the help of Venril Sathir that the "Pale skinned fleshlings" came to establish the OUtpost of Firiona Vie in the first place.They aren't exactly on happy terms. hehe.</blockquote>After the entire world as you know it gets blown to heII, and your gods up and take off... THINGS CHANGE!!If you know an FP lore or have done any quests in Fallen Gate, you'd know that some DEs have held to the old beleifs... but the vast majority (including all player characters) have desided that survival was more important that traditional differences.I think you're all missing the HUGE historical events that took place between EQ1 and EQ2... Those are the kinds of events that change civilizations in irrepairable ways. Qeynos is now an intollerant monarchy, Freeport is a dictatorship, New Tunaria Elves became racial serperatists... etc... The poor dwarves ... lost it alll... Which IMHO is a far worst fate than the High Elves that at least know they aren't an endangered species entirely. Maybe the frozen dwarf city survived... That'd be nice... and I'd bet anything the Erudites found a way to survive... But those are tales for future discovery. </blockquote>Things change, yes, but this is one radical viewpoint without meeting in the middle.The cataclysms happened. We know that. There are now four cities. We know that. Races have been forced together. We know that. That doesn't mean they're happy. That doesn't mean that, especially for Norrath's zealous races, that 'we are going to forget everything and hug humans'. This is ESPECIALLY relevant to the fact that the Iksar were SLAVES to Lucan. They are NOT on happy terms with the humans. Not at all.This goes the same for Neriak. For a group of Iksar to say, "Hey, let's move into Neriak! It'll be fun!" doesn't make an iota of sense. It's a stronghold of hatred, goes against the bias their god has established, goes against their history, goes against their beliefs, goes against everything their race is established for.Cataclysms or not. Cataclysms set the foundation, though it's not an excuse to say "this changed everything, so there." This game DOES keep it's racial diversity. It's just masked by the fact that everything's smashed into small places. It's a facade, and nothing more. This facade overshadows this fact, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 06:01 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite>Let me make things more clear. You step off the boat from FP into Kunark, there is an Iksar thier, you walk over and say "Hi brother Iksar I have been waiting for the path from FP to Kunark to open and now that it is here I am". The Iksar says to you while sticking a knife in your heart "TRAITOR!!!". Yeah, I think you can earn thier trust.As for bad guys being fools? Well its never stoped them befor. Besides the Iksar Empire is already activly destroying Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas, AND Pirate ships all over the Seas of Norath, do you really think they care about what the other side is capable of. One of the overriding factors in all of History when you look at Evil people is a supreme case of over confidance.</blockquote>You wouldnt nesicarily say Hey look i came from freeport please kill me. No youd do something to prove your self first. Say something like you were shipwrecked how many years ago. I konw its like 50 or more years game time but one dev said not to take game time literaly. So lets say its been 5 years tell them you were shiprecked 5 years ago. you dont have to go into the specifics of your loyaltys and join back up with them. Once you have earned trust and have high faction then you can say whlie i was shipwreked I was able to find out some stuff about freeport that maybe of some importance to venril. You make it like we are a trator and have been all our lives. We WERE shipwrecked and it might not have been too teriblly long ago we could have been from Kunark and we could have been some one already under venril but were forced to blend in with the iksar in freeport. </blockquote>Ok, where did you find the boat of Kunarkian Design to land on Kunark in... oh, you didn't its a Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas or Pirate ship... then the senario is this, you get off the boat, and twang an arrow in your brain pan as you just showed up on a ship that is allined with a people the Empire is at war with.</blockquote>Its not like we are getting off the boats at normandy. I doubt when we get to kunark there will be arrows flying at us when we get off the boats. How you get back to your people is a minor detale and they arent going to be watching. I think my story holds water. 5-10 years ago i was ship wrecked form a warship that was already under Venril I did what i had to to survive and now i'm comeing back. What boat i take is of little differnce. I blended it and Now im back home back to be with my Iksar brothers.

09-17-2007, 06:01 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, it does make some sense. Though despite the fact that those cataclysms happen, and races mix, that doesn't mean that everything just becomes a huge blob of junk that has no shape beside the mass that it has taken.Even if cataclysms were to shake planet Earth, cultures would, to some degree, remain cultures. Ethnicities, religions, etc, would hold fast, because that is what gives people strength. The Iksar, of all people, are some of the most fervant of all Norrath's races when it comes to this.While it may not mean that Kunark is currently a place that this will happen, that doesn't mean that it's a shortcoming of the Iksar who live in Freeport. I believe what is being pointed out is the fact that ASIDE from Kunark, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense with the way some things are being established, EXCEPT that 'it makes sense mechanics wise, so we shall make it make sense lore wise'.</blockquote>Well... I'll disagree with your assessment that religion, culture, etc would remain unchanged. Humanity hasn't faced many cataclysmic event. I can easily see any event wiping out 50% of all life on earth changing things in ways you can not imagine. Imagine an earthquake that caused a landmass shift that made Ohio the eastern most US state... but created a permanent landbridge from the western US to China... How different do you think the world would become?And as far as the Iksar are concerned. It makes almost NO sense what so ever for a fear and loathing based society to ever except any outsiders... and Any iksar that made friends with softskins... was raised intheir society... smelled like them... made friends and adventured with the... came over on their boats... etc... You're not an iksar... you're just another outsider.

09-17-2007, 06:04 PM

Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 06:06 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, it does make some sense. Though despite the fact that those cataclysms happen, and races mix, that doesn't mean that everything just becomes a huge blob of junk that has no shape beside the mass that it has taken.Even if cataclysms were to shake planet Earth, cultures would, to some degree, remain cultures. Ethnicities, religions, etc, would hold fast, because that is what gives people strength. The Iksar, of all people, are some of the most fervant of all Norrath's races when it comes to this.While it may not mean that Kunark is currently a place that this will happen, that doesn't mean that it's a shortcoming of the Iksar who live in Freeport. I believe what is being pointed out is the fact that ASIDE from Kunark, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense with the way some things are being established, EXCEPT that 'it makes sense mechanics wise, so we shall make it make sense lore wise'.</blockquote>Well... I'll disagree with your assessment that religion, culture, etc would remain unchanged. Humanity hasn't faced many cataclysmic event. I can easily see any event wiping out 50% of all life on earth changing things in ways you can not imagine. Imagine an earthquake that caused a landmass shift that made Ohio the eastern most US state... but created a permanent landbridge from the western US to China... How different do you think the world would become?And as far as the Iksar are concerned. It makes almost NO sense what so ever for a fear and loathing based society to ever except any outsiders... and Any iksar that made friends with softskins... was raised intheir society... smelled like them... made friends and adventured with the... came over on their boats... etc... You're not an iksar... you're just another outsider.</blockquote>Yes, though keep in mind, i'm not talking about Kunark. we're talking about establishments outside of Kunark <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I said already that with Venril in charge, things are different.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 06:07 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are saying they should have gone with DoF mark two and had no True City(like Maj'dul) because thats the only way that would have worked. Yes it would have "worked" just like Maj'dul and DoF "worked". As you can't have a Starting city thats has a 70+ zone right outside it's front door wich is what would have happened in that case. You see you need Lore reasons for 3 differant mechanics in this expaintion if you are going to have the expaintion the way it currently is. <ol><li>You need a Massive Power or Waring factions to make the place your going to more dangerous, in order to get a lvl cap increase.</li><li>You need to have an area that new players can start in and lvl up</li><li>You need a reason those players leave at lvl 20ish and goto the "old world" befor coming back once they are strong enough, or you need new zones all the way from 1 to 80.</li></ol>In order to have 2 you can't go with Waring factions in 1 because factions will always have thier strongest troops at the front doors of the enemy cities, wich means Newbe death. That leaves Massive Power in order to have the lvl cap go up. Now as for 3 we again have 2 choices we can let them lvl up inside the zone and add even more width to a game that many already beleave is too wide, or they can give a reason for the Newbe to leave, and then comeback more powerful. Well the only reason to leave in that senario is if the faction your a part of is WAY to weak to defend you against the Massive Power.Can you come up with a senario where there is 1 Massive Power, 1 Faction fighting that power, and where that faction has to send it's kids away to get more powerful befor comming back to defend it? And have it not be a Weak down trodden race, beated almost to exteniction, thats in hidding?</blockquote>You can absolutely have a starting city that has a 70+ zone right outside the front door, especially if it is a port city. Given that historically the most powerful cities are port cities, I think that's all but a given. And just because something is a port city doesn't mean it has to be on the coast. Rivers work just as well.Now, given that, you have tons of options available to players for travel. That completely negates points number 2 and 3. No faction sends "it's kids away". I don't know that I've ever heard a NPC directly reference anyone's level as such. Sure they talk about being more or less powerful, but level isn't something they talk about. You're either good enough to do the job or you're not.And just because someone is hiding doesn't mean they are weak. Guerilla warriors are a very solid and effective option and have proven to be instrumental in many conflicts.

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 06:16 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from?

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 06:26 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>The Rending was what shook Cabilis to the ground... and that was 150 ish years ago? Iksar ships were coming well before the Shattering. From where? To where? Good question. SOE kind of snuck the Tome of Destiny off their main page, so i'm not sure if we can accept that as official cannon anymore.

09-17-2007, 06:30 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>No... if you recall... all the ppl found and taken to one of the starting cities had to swear loyalty to that city... So a true follower of Venril would have fought his "capture", and sought every way possible to get back "home" as soon as possible. Given that you took a several year detour... and in that time made friends with foul races... and played errand boy for Lucan (or gods forbind, Antonia Bayle...iew)... none of which a self respecting follower of Venril would tolerate doing.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 06:34 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>No... if you recall... all the ppl found and taken to one of the starting cities had to swear loyalty to that city... So a true follower of Venril would have fought his "capture", and sought every way possible to get back "home" as soon as possible. Given that you took a several year detour... and in that time made friends with foul races... and played errand boy for Lucan (or gods forbind, Antonia Bayle...iew)... none of which a self respecting follower of Venril would tolerate doing.</blockquote>That's not true. When EQ2 launched, if you wanted Citizenship in the main city, you had to prove your "loyalty". However, nothing precluded the possibility of living out in the suburbs forever.

09-17-2007, 07:13 PM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's not true. When EQ2 launched, if you wanted Citizenship in the main city, you had to prove your "loyalty". However, nothing precluded the possibility of living out in the suburbs forever.</blockquote>Uhm... I don't have the transcript... but what did you have to agree to BEFORE even allowed off the island. Not before getting to the subburbs... but before the ship would even take you to Freeport you have to swear allegience to Bayle or Lucan. They're the ones that funded the refuge islands, and if you didn't want to pladge loyalty to one of them, the refuge islands is where you'd have stayed... or until you made your own boat and found your way someplace from there.

Dreyco

09-17-2007, 07:14 PM

This has, however, changed. Citizenship quests have been removed. You start out as a 'hero' who is 'offering to help' at the outpost, or colony.

Leatherneck

09-17-2007, 07:16 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's not true. When EQ2 launched, if you wanted Citizenship in the main city, you had to prove your "loyalty". However, nothing precluded the possibility of living out in the suburbs forever.</blockquote>Uhm... I don't have the transcript... but what did you have to agree to BEFORE even allowed off the island. Not before getting to the subburbs... but before the ship would even take you to Freeport you have to swear allegience to Bayle or Lucan. They're the ones that funded the refuge islands, and if you didn't want to pladge loyalty to one of them, the refuge islands is where you'd have stayed... or until you made your own boat and found your way someplace from there.</blockquote>I can't remember precisely what was promised. I'll certainly cede that you could be right and my memory may be failing.

Cusashorn

09-17-2007, 07:22 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>The Rending was what shook Cabilis to the ground... and that was 150 ish years ago? Iksar ships were coming well before the Shattering. From where? To where? Good question. SOE kind of snuck the Tome of Destiny off their main page, so i'm not sure if we can accept that as official cannon anymore.</blockquote>The Rending happened after the 2nd Rallosian War, which was when the enslaved Iksar of Freeport finally gained thier freedom from the Overlord. It happened well before 150 years-300 years ago.

Zabjade

09-17-2007, 07:46 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, I have to argue against the whole, "The Sky shattered and rained fire upon the land, and the world broke apart into a thousand pieces! Kum-bye-ya! Let's be friends with the other races and put aside all our history!" It just doesn't work for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">Venril Sathir is a traitor. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.The Iksar in Freeport were slaves to the other races there. So yes, there is bound to be some conflict.Do the Iksar belong in Freeport? No. Their racial allignment really determines otherwise.Do they belong on Kunark? By Lore's standards, yes, they do. That is their homeland. If there REALLY were to be an Iksar city, that would be the place it would be.Is Kunark really a place that those who are loyal to the OLD HISTORY should be settling and alligning with Venril? NO!I can totally see the desperation though. Iksar players want to live on Kunark. They're really willing to give anything to be able to live on Kunark with their people again. Even if it means becoming one of the New Cabilisian Empire, and alligning with Venril.Venril's reign is bound to be far different than the way things were within Cabilis. Probably as close as we'll get, sadly.</blockquote>Personally I'd rather see a Swiftail Outpost in the TD that took in the rufugees that wern't conquored by Venril. That way you could have actual Iksar MONKS rather then Bruisers.

Xxile

09-17-2007, 09:52 PM

My guess venrile wont except us and we shouldn't except him he's a traitor in a heros body. But I guess others are desperate seeing that the iksar still on kunark are following him. But the way things look now venrile doesn't want us to live in his city he wants too kill us. If you did the live even they call us blood traitor. If you do it as a soft skin they say. "We don't want you but we'll be happy to kill you if you get in the way of us finding the followers of thule" or "Where are you hiding the traitors!". So it sounds like they want to hunt us down. Now I want to leave freeport just as much as the others do. I would rather live under an iksar traitor then a greedy little selfish soft skin idiot who brags about a glow in the dark sword. But the most likely option theyll give us is that we're our own faction living in some ruins on kunark fighting sathir to reunite our people or at least exterminate the corrupted ones.I belive the iksar should have a city on kunark its just fair they should. Also don't give me that crap that Oh the high elves dont get to start in felwithe or the dwarves dont get kaladim because they can all still start in kelethin in THEIR HOME LAND. Im not saying give us Cabilis or seb just give us something...

Deadrus

09-17-2007, 11:10 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>The Rending was what shook Cabilis to the ground... and that was 150 ish years ago? Iksar ships were coming well before the Shattering. From where? To where? Good question. SOE kind of snuck the Tome of Destiny off their main page, so i'm not sure if we can accept that as official cannon anymore.</blockquote>The Rending happened after the 2nd Rallosian War, which was when the enslaved Iksar of Freeport finally gained thier freedom from the Overlord. It happened well before 150 years-300 years ago.</blockquote>Yes as Cusa said the rending took place 150-300 years ago. The Iksar in freeport that live there and us the player who are iksar are a totaly differnt. I would expect most if not all the Iksar in the Freeport milita are the ones that were enslaved by the overlord and such. And many of the regular iksar npc some of the iksar npcs could be like us the adventurers who were on an iksar ship that was destoryed after the shattering took place (cuz i belive the shattering happend right before eq2 started which made the seas treachorus). 10 or 15 years ago an iksar ship could have been lost in the seas we were picked up and taken to the island of refuge. And there would be no way to get back untill the seas have calmed. thats how we found faydwer the sea that takes us there calmed. We wouldnt have abandoned Venril we just Didn't have any way to get back untill the seas calmed. Well they have now with reports of the Iksar ships now is our chance to go back home to get out of pretending we are like the tradorish iksar that were born in bread in freeport. I (my character) for one was NOT born in freeport and have been forced to live there because there had been no other choice. Neriak isnt a choise either.And for thoes that say oh venril would just kill people who wanted to go back that were "trator" who were under soft skins? Wouldnt the queen of Neriak wana do the same to the darkelf that lived in freeport. I belive its a little hokie that neriaks been there all this time and weve just now found it? Why does she let any evil race live there? It doesnt make sence. Sure ogers and trolls because of the forigen quarter but iksar? Ratonga? Erudytes? It just doent add up. Why is this queen who killed her own husband (and i thinks son also) to become ruler of the dark elf any more forgiveing then Venril it just doesnt make sence. Dark elf should have tried harder they were still on the same peice of land pretty much. The iksar we've not been able to get home becuase the sea wouldnt have let us get home untill now. I'm not asking for Cablis back since well from what theyve said it's gone but some where an outpost something?

Gasheron

09-17-2007, 11:26 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>I direct you to this link.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=380735" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=380735</a>There it is said that the people taken to the Isle of Refuge were found around the Isles of Refuge, a chain of islands with many stranded people from the events of Shattering. The Iksar that we play as are descendants from the survivors of a group of ships that were wrecked before the second Rallosian War and were quickly enslaved by Lucan as they washed ashore. Most of the Iksar in Freeport were most likely born in freeport, and most of the adventurers we play were probably intended to have been recruited from amongst the racial presence of Iksar in Freeport and deposited on the Isle of Refuge as their first test. Either that or taken from the other Isles of Refuge in the string of islands. This means that just about every single Iksar that isn't currently on Kunark has NEVER been on Kunark.Now that that is over, as many have said, Venril is not going to accept us into his ranks. We've been among softskins for too long, and are no longer "his" people. However, most of the Iksar in Freeport and the Iksar we play are taught Iksar heritage. It's part of the bond Iksar have with their race. This heritage includes viewing Venril Sathir as a traitor. He is a traitor because he studied the dark arts of the Shissar, a race that enslaved the Iksar for an unspecified amount of time. He is a traitor because he lost faith in the Iksar deity, Cazic Thule, when he made a pact with Innoruuk for immortality. He is a traitor because of his turning his back on Iksar tradition to simply gain more power. HE IS A TRAITOR.Now, joining a group of Sarnak, whose overall race is at war with the new Empire, isn't really much of an option either. I won't get into the flaw of neutral races starting in Gorowynn, but Iksar being able to go there, let alone start there, just doesn't make sense. The Sarnak would be just as likely to kill Iksar players as the new Empire is.Now, this doesn't, however, eliminate the possibility of an outpost being in Timorous Deep for us Iksar. After all, the most honorable caste of the Iksar nation before Venril's new Empire, the Swifttail Monks, would more than likely not side with Venril. Even if they do, I recall a certain outpost being said to be off the coast of Faydwer, which was planned to be the staging ground for a counter-invasion of Faydwer in retaliation for the outpost of Firiona Vie. *cough* Visk *cough*. The place those ships however long ago were headed for before they were shipwrecked, only to have the survivors enslaved by Lucan.Also, as I've stated before, what is there to stop the Iksar population in Freeport from going to Kunark anyway, despite Venril's new Empire? I could easily see the Iksar from Freeport leaving to attempt to start their own colony somewhere on/near Kunark. Honestly, if there are x number of Iksar living in Freeport, I don't see a way to explain 90% or more of them staying in Freeport outside of Lucan re-enslaving the entire group.Of course, just as with the many other... flaws in the lore of late, we most likely will have no such luck. I doubt us Iksar players are going to get anything. The dev team seems to have already made up its mind. So, unless one can get a large group, and by large i mean a server's worth, of people to appeal to the dev's, we aren't going to get anything. Personally, I'd like to see these types of threads die, just so people like Dreyco and Cusashorn (sorry to any i didn't acknowledge) don't have to keep explaining the same things over and over again.

Wilde_Night

09-18-2007, 12:46 AM

A note on Neriak's newfound "acceptance of lesser races."It was stated in the History and Lore forums, by one of our Lore Dev's, that Neriak is only accepting these other races because of their alliance with Lucan D'Lere and Freeport. Their acceptance is not foolishness or kindness or a change of beliefs. It is practicality. They are still rebuilding their forces underground and establishing themselves above ground again. Freeport has had an extra 300+ years to gain power on the surface. As part of the treaty, they are allowing some of the Freeport races to live there for now.In fact, with them playing weak, I am sure they will tell you they were 'forced' to let them live there.Unless Venril makes a similar treaty with Freeport, I doubt any race will be able to start any where else in Kunark except with the Sarnak. And somehow, Venril seems more power hungry and foolish than Cristanos.

Dreyco

09-18-2007, 01:16 AM

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>A note on Neriak's newfound "acceptance of lesser races."It was stated in the History and Lore forums, by one of our Lore Dev's, that Neriak is only accepting these other races because of their alliance with Lucan D'Lere and Freeport. Their acceptance is not foolishness or kindness or a change of beliefs. It is practicality. They are still rebuilding their forces underground and establishing themselves above ground again. Freeport has had an extra 300+ years to gain power on the surface. As part of the treaty, they are allowing some of the Freeport races to live there for now.In fact, with them playing weak, I am sure they will tell you they were 'forced' to let them live there.Unless Venril makes a similar treaty with Freeport, I doubt any race will be able to start any where else in Kunark except with the Sarnak. And somehow, Venril seems more power hungry and foolish than Cristanos.</blockquote>Hey Aeviel! Isn't it true, though, that Cristanos isn't exactly happy about that? Several NPC's down in Neriak talk about how she wants to seal the pathway to the surface, while others want to keep it open out of necessity.

Wilde_Night

09-18-2007, 01:30 AM

Yes, though it is true that her Megalomaniacness is not happy with the arrangement, it is necessary at this time to go along with it. Neriak is pretending to be weak right now, from what I can gather from in game and Lore Dev hints.I am looking forward to what this Alliance plot has in store for us in the future. I have a lot of characters who would love to get their hands around her traitorous neck and squeeze. And I saw at one point, targetting the queen as a new player, she triggers your "This creature is part of a group encounter" tip.

Leatherneck

09-18-2007, 05:15 AM

<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now, this doesn't, however, eliminate the possibility of an outpost being in Timorous Deep for us Iksar. After all, the most honorable caste of the Iksar nation before Venril's new Empire, the Swifttail Monks, would more than likely not side with Venril. Even if they do, I recall a certain outpost being said to be off the coast of Faydwer, which was planned to be the staging ground for a counter-invasion of Faydwer in retaliation for the outpost of Firiona Vie. *cough* Visk *cough*. The place those ships however long ago were headed for before they were shipwrecked, only to have the survivors enslaved by Lucan.</blockquote>Another reason I say the Iksar of EQ2 aren't much like the Iksar of EQ1 is the attempt of the Swifttail Caste to convince the humans on the Isle of Mara to allow the Iksar to join them.EQ1 Iksar would have never had such a thought. They would either have; figured the humans were too strong right now and would have left them alone, or they would have attempted to beat them down and taken their knowledge or died trying.

ke'la

09-18-2007, 06:09 AM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite>Let me make things more clear. You step off the boat from FP into Kunark, there is an Iksar thier, you walk over and say "Hi brother Iksar I have been waiting for the path from FP to Kunark to open and now that it is here I am". The Iksar says to you while sticking a knife in your heart "TRAITOR!!!". Yeah, I think you can earn thier trust.As for bad guys being fools? Well its never stoped them befor. Besides the Iksar Empire is already activly destroying Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas, AND Pirate ships all over the Seas of Norath, do you really think they care about what the other side is capable of. One of the overriding factors in all of History when you look at Evil people is a supreme case of over confidance.</blockquote>You wouldnt nesicarily say Hey look i came from freeport please kill me. No youd do something to prove your self first. Say something like you were shipwrecked how many years ago. I konw its like 50 or more years game time but one dev said not to take game time literaly. So lets say its been 5 years tell them you were shiprecked 5 years ago. you dont have to go into the specifics of your loyaltys and join back up with them. Once you have earned trust and have high faction then you can say whlie i was shipwreked I was able to find out some stuff about freeport that maybe of some importance to venril. You make it like we are a trator and have been all our lives. We WERE shipwrecked and it might not have been too teriblly long ago we could have been from Kunark and we could have been some one already under venril but were forced to blend in with the iksar in freeport. </blockquote>Ok, where did you find the boat of Kunarkian Design to land on Kunark in... oh, you didn't its a Freeport, Qeynos, Far Seas or Pirate ship... then the senario is this, you get off the boat, and twang an arrow in your brain pan as you just showed up on a ship that is allined with a people the Empire is at war with.</blockquote>Its not like we are getting off the boats at normandy. I doubt when we get to kunark there will be arrows flying at us when we get off the boats. How you get back to your people is a minor detale and they arent going to be watching. I think my story holds water. 5-10 years ago i was ship wrecked form a warship that was already under Venril I did what i had to to survive and now i'm comeing back. What boat i take is of little differnce. I blended it and Now im back home back to be with my Iksar brothers. </blockquote>Ok, your right you won't be getting shot by arrows the second you show up on shore because right now the boats nearing Kunarkian waters are being SUNK PERIOD. The ONLY place to land WILL BE a beach front just like Normandy was, because like it or not the Iksar Empire has declared war on EVERYONE. If they see you and they don't recognizes you, you are DEAD period they will not ask questions they will KILL YOU.

ke'la

09-18-2007, 06:26 AM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are saying they should have gone with DoF mark two and had no True City(like Maj'dul) because thats the only way that would have worked. Yes it would have "worked" just like Maj'dul and DoF "worked". As you can't have a Starting city thats has a 70+ zone right outside it's front door wich is what would have happened in that case. You see you need Lore reasons for 3 differant mechanics in this expaintion if you are going to have the expaintion the way it currently is. <ol><li>You need a Massive Power or Waring factions to make the place your going to more dangerous, in order to get a lvl cap increase.</li><li>You need to have an area that new players can start in and lvl up</li><li>You need a reason those players leave at lvl 20ish and goto the "old world" befor coming back once they are strong enough, or you need new zones all the way from 1 to 80.</li></ol>In order to have 2 you can't go with Waring factions in 1 because factions will always have thier strongest troops at the front doors of the enemy cities, wich means Newbe death. That leaves Massive Power in order to have the lvl cap go up. Now as for 3 we again have 2 choices we can let them lvl up inside the zone and add even more width to a game that many already beleave is too wide, or they can give a reason for the Newbe to leave, and then comeback more powerful. Well the only reason to leave in that senario is if the faction your a part of is WAY to weak to defend you against the Massive Power.Can you come up with a senario where there is 1 Massive Power, 1 Faction fighting that power, and where that faction has to send it's kids away to get more powerful befor comming back to defend it? And have it not be a Weak down trodden race, beated almost to exteniction, thats in hidding?</blockquote>You can absolutely have a starting city that has a 70+ zone right outside the front door, especially if it is a port city. So I start a new player and go out the main gate and see the redest creatures in game, yeah that will keep them playing. Having to "hit a bell" to goto an unconected zone after loading is about the WORST design Idea ever for a new player experiance. Given that historically the most powerful cities are port cities, I think that's all but a given. Really so that is why FreePORT, Qyenos and Neriak all have T5 stuff outside thier front doors. And just because something is a port city doesn't mean it has to be on the coast. Rivers work just as well. Here we agree it doen't thats why Neriak is a Port City eventhough its in a Cave in a Mountain side.Now, given that, you have tons of options available to players for travel. That completely negates points number 2 and 3. How does the ablity to goto T3+ zones negate the need for T1 and T2 zones? and more importaintly how does it Negate the need for a Lore reason WHY you are not just continuing into the rest of the contant. No current (Sarnaks are going to) faction sends "it's kids away". I don't know that I've ever heard a NPC directly reference anyone's level as such. Sure they talk about being more or less powerful, but level isn't something they talk about. You're either good enough to do the job or you're not.And just because someone is hiding doesn't mean they are weak. Guerilla warriors are a very solid and effective option and have proven to be instrumental in many conflicts. Guerillas are effective YES but they are usually a last resort tatic and are always used by a weaker oponant against a stronger one. Exsamples of Guerilla actions, the "Swapfox" against the British durring the revolutionary war, the Ma'key(French Resistance) durring WW2, the Viet Cong durring the Veitnam War. Can they be effective yes, can those tactics beat a stronger oponant yes, are they still weaker then there oponant YES.</blockquote>I notice you could not come up with lore reasons that meet the criteria, instead you just said that it does not matter.

ke'la

09-18-2007, 06:37 AM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.

Deadrus

09-18-2007, 10:27 AM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.</blockquote>All three of My iksar Characters were made BEFORE the Island of Refuge change. So they were all resuced from the sea like when the game launched therefor they were lost at sea in some kind of storm due to the shattering. So it was most likely an Iksar ship. Why on earth would already enslaved freeport iksar be sent out to see just to be brought back to freeport. That Does NOT ADD up! We HAD to be from some where else. Maybe since they changed it and no longer picked up out of the sea that the iksar were born in captivity and taken to the island of refuge to "prove them selves" but not my three iksars they were plucked from the sea not born in captivity.

Cusashorn

09-18-2007, 10:52 AM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.</blockquote>All three of My iksar Characters were made BEFORE the Island of Refuge change. So they were all resuced from the sea like when the game launched therefor they were lost at sea in some kind of storm due to the shattering. So it was most likely an Iksar ship. Why on earth would already enslaved freeport iksar be sent out to see just to be brought back to freeport. That Does NOT ADD up! We HAD to be from some where else. Maybe since they changed it and no longer picked up out of the sea that the iksar were born in captivity and taken to the island of refuge to "prove them selves" but not my three iksars they were plucked from the sea not born in captivity. </blockquote>My goodness, would you just read the lore already posted in this thread??THE IKSAR GAINED THIER FREEDOM IN THE 2ND RALLOSIAN WAR!The once-enslaved iksar in Freeport were given freedom when they willingly defended Freeport during the war.This was ~400-300 years ago in the current timeline. Lucan first enslaved them and forced them to bend to his will or they would die. Then after they defended Freeport, he said: "well done. Your shackles are free. I will not force you to live in Freeport as slaves anymore."

Corydonn

09-18-2007, 11:19 AM

<cite></cite><blockquote>My goodness, would you just read the lore already posted in this thread??THE IKSAR GAINED THIER FREEDOM IN THE 2ND RALLOSIAN WAR!The once-enslaved iksar in Freeport were given freedom when they willingly defended Freeport during the war.This was ~400-300 years ago in the current timeline. Lucan first enslaved them and forced them to bend to his will or they would die. Then after they defended Freeport, he said: "well done. Your shackles are free. I will not force you to live in Freeport as slaves anymore."</blockquote>OMG! Thank you! It is about time after pages of reading that someone brought that up!

Deadrus

09-18-2007, 11:33 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.</blockquote>All three of My iksar Characters were made BEFORE the Island of Refuge change. So they were all resuced from the sea like when the game launched therefor they were lost at sea in some kind of storm due to the shattering. So it was most likely an Iksar ship. Why on earth would already enslaved freeport iksar be sent out to see just to be brought back to freeport. That Does NOT ADD up! We HAD to be from some where else. Maybe since they changed it and no longer picked up out of the sea that the iksar were born in captivity and taken to the island of refuge to "prove them selves" but not my three iksars they were plucked from the sea not born in captivity. </blockquote>My goodness, would you just read the lore already posted in this thread??THE IKSAR GAINED THIER FREEDOM IN THE 2ND RALLOSIAN WAR!The once-enslaved iksar in Freeport were given freedom when they willingly defended Freeport during the war.This was ~400-300 years ago in the current timeline. Lucan first enslaved them and forced them to bend to his will or they would die. Then after they defended Freeport, he said: "well done. Your shackles are free. I will not force you to live in Freeport as slaves anymore."</blockquote>Ok they weren't born into captivity. Bad choice of words. I'm not disputing the fact there freedom was won during the second Rallosian War. But what I am saying is that I've not read anything in the lore so far about where the shipwrecked iksar came from. Why are the the ones free to live in freeport and not slaves. So the iksar sat around 300-400 years? Then Went out from freeport during the shattering only to be ship wrecked and brought back to freeport after being taken to the island of refuge? Why would they be sailing about probably away from freeport only to be rescued and brought back to freeport. This is what I keep saying doesn't Add up. maybe i'm miss reading bits of the lore. But why couldn't a ship from Kunark be lost at see during the Shattering picked up and taken to the island of refuge. That makes TONS more sense then all these freeport iksar leavening then getting wrecked only to be taken back? All i'm doing is trying to figure out/ open possibilities to where the Player iksar came from. From what we know and have seen the shattering and antonica's sink holes make the one cotenant split apart into little islands made the seas turbulent this must have been felt across the cotenant as they tore apart and shifted there positions. This is what made the seas so harsh and what made us do the access quests to get to zek, lavastorm, EL, ect. back when the game first released. For someone to leave from antonica in ships when the seas would have been so harsh it would have meant suicide for the people iksar who ever to leave. Well over in kunark from what we know the cotenant is intact or mostly intact more so then antonica. The Water around kunark may not have been so harsh since it was antoica splitting apart. So iksar ships going out to sea didnt have to mean certain death because they didnt konw what was happening they get stuck in a horrible storm horrible water when they get closer to antonica boom there ships are desoryed and iksar are floating at sea. All im trying to do is outline a logical series of events that get player iksar from kunark to freeport. And in years this is probably not even 10 or 20 years ago. That leaves room for Venril to have already conquered much of the cotenant the super sarnak to be hidden. There is no lore that necessarily backs up what I said but I've not read any lore to the contrary. You all are just saying cuz there is no lore to what i say it's totally debunked. I'm just offering a logical idea for what could have happened. I think it makes a ton of sense. but maybe that's just me.

Deadrus

09-18-2007, 11:49 AM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Iksar are not tolerent Iksar want to go back home. Why then make all thoes new npcs all hopeing to go back home? Many of the NPCs when the game launched talked of home (cablis) and not being able to wait till they might return some day. The iksar are the same as they are in eq1 just forced to live in the filth with the dam ned soft skins. We want to go back home. </blockquote>Respectfully, I disagree.If the Iksar were the same as EQ1, things would have turned out differently. All the stranded Iksar would have gathered together and made their own city. They would have stayed hidden until they got enough strength to attack either Freeport or Qeynos. There would be no betrayed Iksar. The only deity choice would be Cazic-Thule and the only professions would be Defiler, Necromancer, Guardian, Shadow Knight and Bruiser.The Iksar in EQ2 are hippies in comparison to EQ1 Iksar.</blockquote>The only reason Iksar are any class is because they made all races play any class. And they did that becuase of the 2 city thing. I really think that was a big design flaw with eq2. And i remember reading something a dev wrote that in the begening alot of the devs didnt like playing eq2 like there was something missing. Not saying it was player citys but just the game play and how much of the eq2 world when it started out was very unfamiliar. I think the shattering was something that came somewhat late in the design of the game because when they first started talking about eq2 they were saying no zone lines it would be one huge world. And with the gam lanching with antoinca in fragments theres not really anyway there could be no zoneing. I guess the realized their no zoneing techonolgy wasnt working well so instead of on big contenant they broke it all apart. Then wrote the lore to go with what they said. I think it's a shame they had to totaly change the game just because there technolgy wasnt up to speed. I wouldnt have minded zone lines if indeed the contenant was huge instead of little islands. I would have preferded racialy distinct citys, races could only be some classes inate race atribues instead of "picking them" thats kinda lame i mean if your playing a race shouldnt you atomaticly get all the benefits of being that race. All that ive been saying in this post hasnt been about bashing eq2. I love eq2. There's nothing that i've played that comes close and i've played alot. but I'd love it even more if we had racial citys and it was a little bit more like eq1. I love the graphchis and gameplay of eq2 i like alot of the storys though i think some are a bit holely like the ones ive been mentioning in thie post. I'm hoping theyll be able to move things more and more to races geting/reclaiming or settig up new places for them selfs as the game progresses.

Cusashorn

09-18-2007, 11:55 AM

No no no. The Iksar ship that got blown off course from the rest of the armada in Timorous deep contained the entire population of iksar that would make up the Iksar population in Freeport.Thier ship crashed off the coast of the Commonlands, where Lucan enslaved them. The war came around, and they won thier freedom. Then the Rending began around 300 years ago, and the Shattering in the last 15.The original storyline behind everyone getting picked up out of the ocean and sent to the Isle of refuge is because the dragon Darathar intentionally cast amnesia on every last one of us, threw us in the ocean, then pulled us onboard his ship (while he was disguised as Captain Varlus.) Darathar never saw that these very adventurers would end up killing him in the end.It's not revealed how he tricked us in the first place, but he did. That was the only reason you were sent to the isle of refuge. Not because the Iksar tried to leave, got stranded, and ultimately had to go back to Freeport. It was because our memories were completely erased.

Kaitar

09-18-2007, 11:58 AM

Ok, here's my take on this leaving out the time line because I think that's been discussed enough.Now the general argument is that most or all Iksar , despite many years ...either from the Rending or the Shattering kids.... would still be strict traditionalists no matter if they've been severed from their culture for quite a long time OR are going to want to go running back to Kunark no matter what.Doesn't make sense from a social standpoint to me. This is why;Yes, the Iksar were first slaves in Freeport some time ago. We all seem to understand this. I am not going to argue about if you came from the Isles or Kunark or a ship out at sea.... the point being -most- Iksar have been in Freeport quite a while now and Iksar have not been slaves to Lucan for a long time. They were not slaves to Lucan when the timeline of EQ2 started, and unless...for whatever reasons some have... you're playing a very very old Iksar, your Iksar isn't going to have a -personal- experience with being a slave in Freeport.I'm going to use a RL situation to compare this to because you know what? Most of "fantasy" Lore is based, in one way or another... off real world situations/experiences/history. In this case, slavery. Much less time has passed in the United States when we were a slave nation. Many of the slaves we captured or "bred" were from very strong societies in their own homeland. They were all well aware that they despised slavery, I'm sure, and we have evidence a good many of them tried to keep their culture alive in what way they could.HOWEVER.They -were- alienated from their home culture/land after hundreds of years. That's just what happens folks. Fanatic or not from a historical standpoint, after living in Freeport for generations... yes, the Iksar of Freeport -are- going to have a more "open" mindset. They would HAVE to or else I'm sure they'd have been wiped out by now. They had to adapt to a new society, new social structure, had to learn to deal with living in the same quarters as "softskins". Descendants of slaves today did not all rush back to their homeland, re-adopt entirely the culture of their ancestors, and they certainly...for the most part.... don't walk around proclaiming how much they hate everyone else. Did a few, after being freed, decide to go back? Most definately. Did a majority of them not? Yep. Did a majority of them, no matter what their ancient ancestors might have thought/felt/experienced eventually learn to adapt and even flourish in a new country/society? Yep.You could argue that the Iksar, being created by an evil god would somehow, magically, all be clones and not think for themselves...thereby all exhibit this mass xenophobia even now after most of them (not all, but most) have lived away from the "core" of traditional Iksar society and amongst other races for a very long time. Am I saying ever Iksar should be pro-Qeynos/Freeport let's all get along? No... but what I am saying is arguing that every Iksar is going to a) rush back to Kunark even if it means allying with Venril or b) ahdere strictly to traditions and history they are -far- removed from for generations is a bit...well...ridiculous.I do expect a mass exodus of Iksar to go back to Kunark. That's sort of understandable... not only from "I really want to have an Iksar on Kunark" standpoint but I'm sure there are a good many Iksar that really would be interested in going "home". It definately may not be the home from all the tales they've been told but that makes for a good story I suppose.My two Iksar are staying in Freeport (well, one is Maj'Dul ) because frankly... having been immersed in a society NOT Iksar for so long (and Zyei having quite a history anyway with the traditional outlooks of Iksar and a former clan he ran with who turned strict Thulian ) and also having bad encounters with OTHER Iksar who still (for whatever reason) act like they have just been dumped fresh off a boat from Kunark RAWR HATE EVERYONE KILL ALL WHO DO NOT FOLLOW OUR IDEAS TO EVERY LETTER! they actually really don't get along with other Iksar for the most part. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I look forward to being the odd ball in Freeport once this expansion comes out. And that's my more "let's look at it from a real life perspective" opinion on the debate of non-Kunark Iksar society and why I think it's fine that they are in Neriak/Freeport/whatever other city and why I think it makes sense that Iksar that were left on Kunark are -not- going to really want these "heretics/outsiders/immigrants" in their nation.

Deadrus

09-18-2007, 12:04 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>No no no. The Iksar ship that got blown off course from the rest of the armada in Timorous deep contained the entire population of iksar that would make up the Iksar population in Freeport.Thier ship crashed off the coast of the Commonlands, where Lucan enslaved them. The war came around, and they won thier freedom. Then the Rending began around 300 years ago, and the Shattering in the last 15.The original storyline behind everyone getting picked up out of the ocean and sent to the Isle of refuge is because the dragon Darathar intentionally cast amnesia on every last one of us, threw us in the ocean, then pulled us onboard his ship (while he was disguised as Captain Varlus.) Darathar never saw that these very adventurers would end up killing him in the end.It's not revealed how he tricked us in the first place, but he did. That was the only reason you were sent to the isle of refuge. Not because the Iksar tried to leave, got stranded, and ultimately had to go back to Freeport. It was because our memories were completely erased.</blockquote>Ok I get where the existing freeport population of the iksar came from. Once agian i'm not disputeing that. Ok Darathar cast amnesia on us put us in the water and plucked us out. but if we had amnesia he could have plucked us out from anywhere. Yes it could have been from freeport. but couldnt it also have been from Kunark? Odus? Faydwer. Sure this is a busy dragon to do that to so many people. but this is a Fantasy game right? So if our memorys were complealy eraced we "might" have been on an iksar warship or some other iksar ship. Kidnaped thrown into the sea the ship destoryed and he resuces one or 2 of us? since you did say Its not revealed how he tricked us? Maybe we were just kidnaped from random places?

Xanrn

09-18-2007, 12:05 PM

So is there some magical reason Iksar should have time and resources wasted on making them another starter area?No, there isn't.Gorowyn will be the only starter area in Kunark live with it.5 of the EQ1 starter zones are controlled by hostile forces and 4 are MIA.Their not going to be making racially specific starter zones any time soon.You have 4 places to live already and 5th coming in Kunark [Removed for Content] shut up already. You lot are as bad as the bloody Beastlord lot.

Zarafein

09-18-2007, 12:25 PM

The rending was rahter 150 years ago than 300 and veterans of the rallosian war(not only elves or super long living creatures) were still around when the rending happened.

Leatherneck

09-18-2007, 01:24 PM

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are saying they should have gone with DoF mark two and had no True City(like Maj'dul) because thats the only way that would have worked. Yes it would have "worked" just like Maj'dul and DoF "worked". As you can't have a Starting city thats has a 70+ zone right outside it's front door wich is what would have happened in that case. You see you need Lore reasons for 3 differant mechanics in this expaintion if you are going to have the expaintion the way it currently is. <ol><li>You need a Massive Power or Waring factions to make the place your going to more dangerous, in order to get a lvl cap increase.</li><li>You need to have an area that new players can start in and lvl up</li><li>You need a reason those players leave at lvl 20ish and goto the "old world" befor coming back once they are strong enough, or you need new zones all the way from 1 to 80.</li></ol>In order to have 2 you can't go with Waring factions in 1 because factions will always have thier strongest troops at the front doors of the enemy cities, wich means Newbe death. That leaves Massive Power in order to have the lvl cap go up. Now as for 3 we again have 2 choices we can let them lvl up inside the zone and add even more width to a game that many already beleave is too wide, or they can give a reason for the Newbe to leave, and then comeback more powerful. Well the only reason to leave in that senario is if the faction your a part of is WAY to weak to defend you against the Massive Power.Can you come up with a senario where there is 1 Massive Power, 1 Faction fighting that power, and where that faction has to send it's kids away to get more powerful befor comming back to defend it? And have it not be a Weak down trodden race, beated almost to exteniction, thats in hidding?</blockquote>You can absolutely have a starting city that has a 70+ zone right outside the front door, especially if it is a port city. So I start a new player and go out the main gate and see the redest creatures in game, yeah that will keep them playing. Having to "hit a bell" to goto an unconected zone after loading is about the WORST design Idea ever for a new player experiance. Given that historically the most powerful cities are port cities, I think that's all but a given. Really so that is why FreePORT, Qyenos and Neriak all have T5 stuff outside thier front doors. And just because something is a port city doesn't mean it has to be on the coast. Rivers work just as well. Here we agree it doen't thats why Neriak is a Port City eventhough its in a Cave in a Mountain side.Now, given that, you have tons of options available to players for travel. That completely negates points number 2 and 3. How does the ablity to goto T3+ zones negate the need for T1 and T2 zones? and more importaintly how does it Negate the need for a Lore reason WHY you are not just continuing into the rest of the contant. No current (Sarnaks are going to) faction sends "it's kids away". I don't know that I've ever heard a NPC directly reference anyone's level as such. Sure they talk about being more or less powerful, but level isn't something they talk about. You're either good enough to do the job or you're not.And just because someone is hiding doesn't mean they are weak. Guerilla warriors are a very solid and effective option and have proven to be instrumental in many conflicts. Guerillas are effective YES but they are usually a last resort tatic and are always used by a weaker oponant against a stronger one. Exsamples of Guerilla actions, the "Swapfox" against the British durring the revolutionary war, the Ma'key(French Resistance) durring WW2, the Viet Cong durring the Veitnam War. Can they be effective yes, can those tactics beat a stronger oponant yes, are they still weaker then there oponant YES.</blockquote>I notice you could not come up with lore reasons that meet the criteria, instead you just said that it does not matter.</blockquote>You assume too much.Given the projected size of the zones in RoK, nothing says you would have to "hit a bell" from the city. Sewers, underground caverns, coastal islands would all provide potential levelling areas."Really so that is why FreePORT, Qyenos and Neriak all have T5 stuff outside thier front doors." makes absolutely no sense in context with what it follows. If you're implying that my statement about port cities being stronger historically than landlocked, portless cities it rather proves the point. The cities project enough strength both militarily and politically that it's nearest neighbors are much weaker by comparison.Guerillas doesn't mean the force is weak. It MIGHT mean that it is weaker in comparison to it's opponent (which doesn't preclude it being the second strongest force in existence). On the other hand, it may well be cultural.Just because I chose not to spend the time writing out a whole long lore for you doesn't mean I can't. Then again, you are given to assuming far too much.

Willias

09-18-2007, 03:27 PM

Kalem

09-18-2007, 05:08 PM

Deadrus

09-18-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>Willias@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xanrn wrote:</cite><blockquote>So is there some magical reason Iksar should have time and resources wasted on making them another starter area?No, there isn't.Gorowyn will be the only starter area in Kunark live with it.5 of the EQ1 starter zones are controlled by hostile forces and 4 are MIA.Their not going to be making racially specific starter zones any time soon.You have 4 places to live already and 5th coming in Kunark [Removed for Content] shut up already. You lot are as bad as the bloody Beastlord lot.</blockquote>I don't really care so much about a new starting area for Iksar as much as I do a city that Iksar characters can either betray to, or join up with.</blockquote>Exaclty what Willias said. I'm not asking for an Iksar noob area. Just a way iksar characters can betry to a camp or join up with some iksar factoin in Kunark.

Xxile

09-18-2007, 07:01 PM

<cite>Xanrn wrote:</cite><blockquote>So is there some magical reason Iksar should have time and resources wasted on making them another starter area?No, there isn't.Gorowyn will be the only starter area in Kunark live with it.5 of the EQ1 starter zones are controlled by hostile forces and 4 are MIA.Their not going to be making racially specific starter zones any time soon.You have 4 places to live already and 5th coming in Kunark [Removed for Content] shut up already. You lot are as bad as the bloody Beastlord lot.</blockquote>Well is there some magical reason the dark elves should get a new starting area and a their city back? Is there any reason the faydwer races get a new starting area and get kelethin back? Maybe the sarnak should just start in freeport and kunark should fuse with the shattered lands. Why should the sarnak, a race made by the iksar, get their own starting area? Hell lets put every one back in freeport and qeynos and have no diversity at all. Your saying we're just as bad as those people who want beastlords but i say ur just as bad as those idiots who make fae necros and wonder why qeynos doesnt like them.

troodon

09-18-2007, 07:16 PM

Allowing Iksar players to side with their Kunark brethren makes a lot more sense than having them fight against them. The Iksar are consumed with a lust for power and glory for their race, all they want is to see their race on top. That is exactly why the Iksar on Kunark follow Venril, because he's the guy who can get them what they want; there is no reason to think that player Iksar wouldn't agree with those on Kunark. Plus, look at the options. Is an Iksar going to fight for his race, or is he going to fight for some human Overlord in a rundown old sea town? The latter option is the most absurd thing I've ever heard

Cusashorn

09-18-2007, 07:46 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>No no no. The Iksar ship that got blown off course from the rest of the armada in Timorous deep contained the entire population of iksar that would make up the Iksar population in Freeport.Thier ship crashed off the coast of the Commonlands, where Lucan enslaved them. The war came around, and they won thier freedom. Then the Rending began around 300 years ago, and the Shattering in the last 15.The original storyline behind everyone getting picked up out of the ocean and sent to the Isle of refuge is because the dragon Darathar intentionally cast amnesia on every last one of us, threw us in the ocean, then pulled us onboard his ship (while he was disguised as Captain Varlus.) Darathar never saw that these very adventurers would end up killing him in the end.It's not revealed how he tricked us in the first place, but he did. That was the only reason you were sent to the isle of refuge. Not because the Iksar tried to leave, got stranded, and ultimately had to go back to Freeport. It was because our memories were completely erased.</blockquote>Ok I get where the existing freeport population of the iksar came from. Once agian i'm not disputeing that. Ok Darathar cast amnesia on us put us in the water and plucked us out. but if we had amnesia he could have plucked us out from anywhere. Yes it could have been from freeport. but couldnt it also have been from Kunark? Odus? Faydwer. Sure this is a busy dragon to do that to so many people. but this is a Fantasy game right? So if our memorys were complealy eraced we "might" have been on an iksar warship or some other iksar ship. Kidnaped thrown into the sea the ship destoryed and he resuces one or 2 of us? since you did say Its not revealed how he tricked us? Maybe we were just kidnaped from random places? </blockquote>Aye. That is a valid point. He could have taken people from anywhere in the world, but since we don't know our pasts, we have to accept what we had to live with.

Zarafein

09-18-2007, 08:47 PM

I'am glad that this darathar amnesia story has gone away for new characters so they can have their own versatile backgroundstories.

09-19-2007, 05:26 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.</blockquote>All three of My iksar Characters were made BEFORE the Island of Refuge change. So they were all resuced from the sea like when the game launched therefor they were lost at sea in some kind of storm due to the shattering. So it was most likely an Iksar ship. Why on earth would already enslaved freeport iksar be sent out to see just to be brought back to freeport. That Does NOT ADD up! We HAD to be from some where else. Maybe since they changed it and no longer picked up out of the sea that the iksar were born in captivity and taken to the island of refuge to "prove them selves" but not my three iksars they were plucked from the sea not born in captivity. </blockquote>You miss the point entirely. Plucked out of the sea, or born a"citizen"... You CHOSE to become or were BORN a part of the Freeport empire. If you wished to do so, you could have then defected to Qeynos... all your decisions... but by default a player character Iksar MUST have chosen to join Freport willingly or they'd have ben dropped back in the sea they were plucked from ( this is by the original Isle gameplay scripts, maybe not the current ones). You never had a choice of being rescued and taken to Freeport... but maintaining loyalties to some other faction. Nope that wasn't an option. Again.... by the lore that has always been set up... Every player character ever created HAD to swear loyalty to FP or Qeynos originally, or they were "born" in one of the cities or Kelethin. There is no such thing as a rogue Player Character that was actually a citizen of New Tunaria or a follower of Venral... Those types surely exist but they're the proerty of SoE and used for the sake of story line development. I suppose it should be said that you don't actually get to create any old Iksar... You get to create an Iksar that was born into or given a particular situaltion. From those beginings you've had some choice in how you've developed.

Deadrus

09-19-2007, 06:08 PM

<cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zald wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deadrus... no matter how you try to logisize it... Player character Iksar's are NOT the same as the ones that decided to stay in the homeland. Just like player char High Elves are NOT from New Tunaria. Specifically the New Tunarian Elves would never allow their true people freedom to roam in and out of their city. Thats one of their limitations and why no player can ever choose to become one.... Will that change in the future... who knows, but for now thats just not possible.</blockquote>We've had 500 years of cataclyms Yes. But the shipwrecks and them picking up stranded people is new is to the world. Less then 50 years since the Dev said not to take game years literaly. So if its in the neigborhood of 10-20 years there no reason we couldnt have been form Kunark and already under Venril. And im doubting that even 10-20 years have passed cuz thats imposible for people to be drifting out at sea that long being rescued to island of refugue. (i also think they need to scrap the island of refuge it worked for a while but its just doesnt make sence anymore)If we were on a warship and shipwecked 10 or more years ago its not been 500 years since we've seen kunark. its been 10 years, and the odds are that Venril was our leader then. Other then lack of visual armor variety my bigest gripe at eq2 is the small island and therefor limited amout of citys. Races need to be indiviualized agian and faction needs to come back and have a biger affect on the game play. Iksars should be able to work faction up to return home in some way. In EQ1 Kunark introduced the Iksar why in eq2 would they just toss the iksar aside whenthe bring back their home. Oh and if we weren't on a ship from kunark 10 years ago and ship wrecked whre the hell did we come from? </blockquote>When was the last time you did the Queens Colony or Isle of the Overlord? We are NO LONGER refugees, we are now going to that island to train to become adventurers meaning we where born in Qeynos or FP and choose to train on thier training grounds.</blockquote>All three of My iksar Characters were made BEFORE the Island of Refuge change. So they were all resuced from the sea like when the game launched therefor they were lost at sea in some kind of storm due to the shattering. So it was most likely an Iksar ship. Why on earth would already enslaved freeport iksar be sent out to see just to be brought back to freeport. That Does NOT ADD up! We HAD to be from some where else. Maybe since they changed it and no longer picked up out of the sea that the iksar were born in captivity and taken to the island of refuge to "prove them selves" but not my three iksars they were plucked from the sea not born in captivity. </blockquote>You miss the point entirely. Plucked out of the sea, or born a"citizen"... You CHOSE to become or were BORN a part of the Freeport empire. If you wished to do so, you could have then defected to Qeynos... all your decisions... but by default a player character Iksar MUST have chosen to join Freport willingly or they'd have ben dropped back in the sea they were plucked from ( this is by the original Isle gameplay scripts, maybe not the current ones). You never had a choice of being rescued and taken to Freeport... but maintaining loyalties to some other faction. Nope that wasn't an option. Again.... by the lore that has always been set up... Every player character ever created HAD to swear loyalty to FP or Qeynos originally, or they were "born" in one of the cities or Kelethin. There is no such thing as a rogue Player Character that was actually a citizen of New Tunaria or a follower of Venral... Those types surely exist but they're the proerty of SoE and used for the sake of story line development. I suppose it should be said that you don't actually get to create any old Iksar... You get to create an Iksar that was born into or given a particular situaltion. From those beginings you've had some choice in how you've developed.</blockquote>Our characters could have been from anywhere being that we had amnesia cast on us. But it wasnt I swear alegance it was pick what city best suits your needs. And if our memory was really wiped we should have been able ot have any Race in any city to start with instead of doing the betral quests. Sure you had to earn citisanship but I don't remember swearing allegance. And just because your character may have said he sweared doesnt mean you ment it if your loyalty really is with home.. kunark even if you can't remember your first hand knowlege. (thats what the iksar in scale yard are for to tell you of your past) Don't you think that many people if they had to swear loyalty just did it to be accepted and not be killed. People do anything to stay alive try to be accepted even if it is a LIE. And if there are people like i say but "only" for use for SOE why couldnt we get with thease individuals earn there trust and be able to go back home that way. If they are from the emprie and you earn their turst they could be like its ok he's with me.

09-19-2007, 06:34 PM

Ok Deadrus you just ain't getting it...EQ2 is a work of fiction. The creators of this fiction MUST limit certain characters to certain paths to maintain the plot of the story. In EQ2 the fundamenta premise of the ENTIRE story is that player characters play a very specific role in the history of Norath. Yes... there may have been Iksar's that wandered the globe and never joined Qeynos of Freeport... we see them everywhere! They're the NPCs that make up the game universe! Those NPCs are owned and controlled by SoE and used as plot devices. Player Characters are NOT plot devices we're players in the story. But again, our ability to affect the story MUST be limited. Otherwise the story goes in 4 Million directions or however many character accounts are currently active.As for the lore of Norath... Is it perfect? NO, but OMG please name one work of fiction that has a perfect story line... with no inconsitancies... The bottom line here is that the history isn't created by the players... we're the actors in the now, not the creators of the then. That's how all works of fiction work.Neriak came back... So in the future SoE certainly could allow Iksar's back in their native homeland, but as of the day of its discovery (the release of RoK) Outcast/ Foreign Iksar are the enemy of the current regime. That's how it's going to be... at least for the time being.

Zarafein

09-20-2007, 01:15 AM

Well thats the big problem of eq2 lore and roleplay.. "imo" no roleplayer should tie himself too close to the (story) quests because.. well +90% of them don't make any sense to be done by more than one person(or fixed group/raid) thats maybe no problem in a single player game but this is an mmorpg and i tend to don't mention them at all in roleplay because this would soon become very silly.. "oh wait I was the one who rescued the world from darathar and all those other dragons, how can you claim that you did this?!" or "hey you have stolen my legendary ghoulbane!"Sure one can't say he conquered New Tunaria and is the new king.. but who cares about a iksar who claims he is a refugee from Kunark? he doesn't affect any other characters story with this so why complain?Same for one who tells you he lives in the thundering steppes or in the looping plains or has a mark on his hand(or something else which the engine can't show) or whatever seems possible and doesn't go over the top.Imo thats hundred times better than 1000 people(and at least two will meet sooner or later) in kyle bayles personal armor...

PassingStranger

09-20-2007, 09:46 AM

A lot of people seem to think that iksar are a lot more of a cohesive and forgiving race than they are. I think this has to do with personal attachment to the race from the perspective of the players, since iksar players seem to be more into their race than players of other races, it breeds a feel of comraderie (it's sort of like people who drive VW bugs). But I don't necessarily think this is such a realistic interpretation of the lore. If you recall EQ1, the "Forsaken" faction was fairly prevalent in some of the newbie zones around Cabilis, all of the outcast iksar that they had deemed somehow unfit to live in their society. So I don't think simply being iksar is going to get anywhere with Venril's empire.And something to remember is that iksar have been living in Freeport for some time now. I think it's unlikely that most iksar there have ever seen Kunark. After a few generations, it doesn't matter to the homeland iksar if you feel a burning pride for the expansion of your race, you're still the descendant of the ones who decided to settle in Freeport. Even if you are a refugee that ended up there, and weren't born in Freeport, you still threw your lot in with them. To the iksar of Kunark, it's all going to be the same.People seem to have the mentality of the old iksar, which isn't really realistic either. They live longer than humans, but not -that- long.I think the thing is that people want be iksar that aren't involved with Freeport (or Neriak). But we don't always get what we want. You were born into this society, or you went into it to survive. From a character perspective, it sucks that your race has deemed you the unclean, but they have, nothing you can do about that.

Kalem

09-20-2007, 11:02 AM

Deadrus

09-20-2007, 11:18 AM

09-20-2007, 02:22 PM

Ok Dread I think I always saw your point, just think you're a little too tied to how you wish the history had developed vs how it did... But that's not a bad thing!As for the high elves... I really doubt any High-elf role player that's sticking to traditional lore is happy at all living in the trees with the dirty lesser elves and those flying things...This is kinda like Paris Hilton having to only shop at WalMart.... sure she can still shop... she just can't shop at the place that she traditionally SHOULD be able to shop. The High elves are a high and mighty ... fairly stuck up race. So for them to have a choice of living in dirty cities with lesser races, or live right over the hill from their true glorious home (with dirty lower races) ain't a real choice... either way sucks! Speaking with respect to Lore, I don't think 2 opposed Iksar faction COULD live that close to one another without killing each other. EQ1 Iksar were a territorial, war oriented, pretty vial in nature, cult. As the Sanark found out, anyone that gets in their way gets stomped over... So do you really think a small encampement of foreign Iksar would be allowed to just set up shop within their lands without a little bloodshed?Ultimately I don't think Iksar can ever rectify the situation in Cabalis or any surrounding area (due 100% to the fact that this is a multi player game and a quest to free Cabalis would ruin that aspect of the story for all future players). I suppose (and hope) that Iksar CAN improve their faction with the Sanark and thus move back to the continent! I see no reason that wouldn't be a possibility!

Gasheron

09-23-2007, 07:08 PM

<cite>Lhangion@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well thats the big problem of eq2 lore and roleplay.. "imo" no roleplayer should tie himself too close to the (story) quests because.. well +90% of them don't make any sense to be done by more than one person(or fixed group/raid) thats maybe no problem in a single player game but this is an mmorpg and i tend to don't mention them at all in roleplay because this would soon become very silly.. "oh wait I was the one who rescued the world from darathar and all those other dragons, how can you claim that you did this?!" or "hey you have stolen my legendary ghoulbane!"Sure one can't say he conquered New Tunaria and is the new king.. but who cares about a iksar who claims he is a refugee from Kunark? he doesn't affect any other characters story with this so why complain?Same for one who tells you he lives in the thundering steppes or in the looping plains or has a mark on his hand(or something else which the engine can't show) or whatever seems possible and doesn't go over the top.Imo thats hundred times better than 1000 people(and at least two will meet sooner or later) in kyle bayles personal armor...</blockquote>The problem with what Deadrus was claiming is not that there are a few Iksar who are refugees from Kunark. Deadrus was saying that ALL adventurer Iksar from Freeport were from a boat that came from Kunark 10-20 years prior to the start of the game. This is wrong.Now, if it were correct, then yes, there would be a valid argument for us Iksar being accepted back into Venril's Empire, since his claim that we were already a part of it would be valid. But as it is not the case, there is no reason for the devs to change the entirety of their plans for Kunark just because a couple Iksar are played as such refugees. This is what the argument has been about.Yes, us Iksar players would love to have a place to go to when Kunark is released. We would love to have Cabilis or Sebilis, or even the City of Mist. However, it is NOT going to happen. It sucks, but it's true. First of all, there is no sense putting a full city where one can start characters on the continent, as the continent is 65+. Second, Venril's Empire looks at us as weak and worthless due to our time among the softskins. There is no argument that we were originally part of Venril's Empire, that there is no reason for him to see us as weak, because the assumption that is made in order to actually back such a claim is false.Also, if you've read the lore currently available, Cabilis is mostly underwater at this point. It was so wrecked that Venril used Sebilis as his capitol instead of the current "bastion of Iksar" that Cabalis was at the time of EQ1.Deadrus is right in saying that us Iksar... enthusiasts are getting the shaft with this expansion. It is horrible to think that the Iksar of Freeport would stay in Freeport upon the discovery of Kunark, whether they were or weren't able to join the new Empire. I see no reason for Iksar to not leave Freeport and create a new settlement in Timorous Deep, or one the edge of Kunark. Or at least attempt to. Either way, the idea of Iksar staying in Freeport is like saying all the Dark Elves of Freeport stayed in Freeport when Neriak was rediscovered. It's laughable at best.But, this is what we are stuck with, and there really isn't anything that can be done about it. If there is anything that can be learned from the recent developments in the lore and game mechanics of this game, it's that once the devs decide on something, it'd take a HUGE outburst from a LARGE amount of the population to change it. The Iksar enthusiasts alone don't have the numbers to give such a complaint, and the players who aren't Iksar enthusiasts just don't care because for them, there is no flaw.

Deadrus

09-23-2007, 07:34 PM

<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lhangion@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well thats the big problem of eq2 lore and roleplay.. "imo" no roleplayer should tie himself too close to the (story) quests because.. well +90% of them don't make any sense to be done by more than one person(or fixed group/raid) thats maybe no problem in a single player game but this is an mmorpg and i tend to don't mention them at all in roleplay because this would soon become very silly.. "oh wait I was the one who rescued the world from darathar and all those other dragons, how can you claim that you did this?!" or "hey you have stolen my legendary ghoulbane!"Sure one can't say he conquered New Tunaria and is the new king.. but who cares about a iksar who claims he is a refugee from Kunark? he doesn't affect any other characters story with this so why complain?Same for one who tells you he lives in the thundering steppes or in the looping plains or has a mark on his hand(or something else which the engine can't show) or whatever seems possible and doesn't go over the top.Imo thats hundred times better than 1000 people(and at least two will meet sooner or later) in kyle bayles personal armor...</blockquote>The problem with what Deadrus was claiming is not that there are a few Iksar who are refugees from Kunark. Deadrus was saying that ALL adventurer Iksar from Freeport were from a boat that came from Kunark 10-20 years prior to the start of the game. This is wrong.Now, if it were correct, then yes, there would be a valid argument for us Iksar being accepted back into Venril's Empire, since his claim that we were already a part of it would be valid. But as it is not the case, there is no reason for the devs to change the entirety of their plans for Kunark just because a couple Iksar are played as such refugees. This is what the argument has been about.Yes, us Iksar players would love to have a place to go to when Kunark is released. We would love to have Cabilis or Sebilis, or even the City of Mist. However, it is NOT going to happen. It sucks, but it's true. First of all, there is no sense putting a full city where one can start characters on the continent, as the continent is 65+. Second, Venril's Empire looks at us as weak and worthless due to our time among the softskins. There is no argument that we were originally part of Venril's Empire, that there is no reason for him to see us as weak, because the assumption that is made in order to actually back such a claim is false.Also, if you've read the lore currently available, Cabilis is mostly underwater at this point. It was so wrecked that Venril used Sebilis as his capitol instead of the current "bastion of Iksar" that Cabalis was at the time of EQ1.Deadrus is right in saying that us Iksar... enthusiasts are getting the shaft with this expansion. It is horrible to think that the Iksar of Freeport would stay in Freeport upon the discovery of Kunark, whether they were or weren't able to join the new Empire. I see no reason for Iksar to not leave Freeport and create a new settlement in Timorous Deep, or one the edge of Kunark. Or at least attempt to. Either way, the idea of Iksar staying in Freeport is like saying all the Dark Elves of Freeport stayed in Freeport when Neriak was rediscovered. It's laughable at best.But, this is what we are stuck with, and there really isn't anything that can be done about it. If there is anything that can be learned from the recent developments in the lore and game mechanics of this game, it's that once the devs decide on something, it'd take a HUGE outburst from a LARGE amount of the population to change it. The Iksar enthusiasts alone don't have the numbers to give such a complaint, and the players who aren't Iksar enthusiasts just don't care because for them, there is no flaw.</blockquote>I NEVER said that ALL player iksar are refugees form kunark. I dont think you read my posts corectly if thats what you came up with. They changed the way island of refuge worked. And since then none of the iksar COULD be a refugee from kunark because they were taken form childhood or whatever to prove them selfs on the island of the overlord. But what I also was saying It makes more sence if the player iksar were from an iksar boat from kunark (before the isltand of refuge change) because why would people even try to go to see when antonica is falling apart its just certian death because of the waters being so unstable. But iksars comeing form kunark wouldnt nessicarly know that and for them to get cought in rough waters and storms and be shiprecked and rescued and taken to this island of refuge would make A WHOLE LOT more sence then how ever many 1000s of iksar that were made at launch we on ships leaveing freeport only to be wreked and come back to freeport just doent make sence. I'd love to see some more lore on where we Actualy came from but since there really isn't (other then the dragon gave us amnesia and drops us in the water or something before that we dont konw where we came from so the things im saying for all we know could be correct) And i understand there is already a base of iksar in freeport. But what I ACTUALY have been saying is that is not farfetched for many of us iksar to be from kunark with the way the game began. I created 2 iksar the day the game launched and another one a month later. I want to belive (and can because we dont know where were were before we were hit with amnesia) that all of my characters were born in kunark and have been unwantingly stuck in freeport waiting for any chance to get out of the slums and back into their home soil if not thier home city. And i know we arent geting our city back im not even going to bother to ask for that. What I do want is either a way to join the empire because chances are because Venril has united the iksar togeather to wipe out any resistance across the land has happend a while ago long before the shattering so we could easily be from his emprie and just lost. And how is it weak to pretend to be loyal to freeport trying to stay alive just to get back to the empire. Or be able to have some outpost that we can live in as something seperate from the empire. I really wish a dev would come and address this consern of us Iksar with the game comeing in 2 months and no really new offical news it would be nice to hear something. but it woudl be a shame that if we dont get to go back a live on our home contenant when all the goody goodys got to live back on there home contenant. I was so excited finaly an evilish slanted expantoin only to find that us evils namely iksars are geting a major shaft when it comes to going back home.

Gasheron

09-23-2007, 08:11 PM

Again, I direct you Deadrus to the thread that I linked earlier in this thread about the Isle of Refuge. The Iksar taken to the Isle of Refuge were taken from the Isles of Refuge (note the s at the end of Isle) or taken from amongst the Iksar populace of Freeport and put directly on the Isle of Refuge. Even though I agree with the Darathar story, I do not see why Darathar would take so many people and do such a deed to them. The sheer numbers alone lead to the conclusion that not all of the adventurers before the Isle of Refuge change were in fact stranded at sea by Darathar.Very few of the Iksar, even before the Isle of Refuge change, were ever on Kunark. And those that were are represented by the few players who roleplay as such a character. This is an abhorrently small % of the Iksar population in Freeport.As for the taking a ship from Freeport that wrecked and then brought back to Freeport, this also does not, as you say, make sense. What does make sense, though, is people being taken from Freeport and brought by ship to the Isle of Refuge directly, most likely by the Far Seas Trading Company, as some sort of test that allows the the FSTC to remain on good terms with both Freeport and Qeynos, and provide FP and Qeynos a steady stream of new recruits. What you claimed to be the truth before the Isle of Refuge change just isn't so.The Iksar that we play as are descendants from wrecked ships that were wrecked before the second Rallosian war. There were no other shipwrecks documented in Iksar history. That's the way it is. These ships were an invasion force heading for Faydwer. They wrecked, and survivors washed ashore near Freeport, where Lucan enslaved as many of them as he could find. Those who escaped Lucan's enslavement probably hid in out of the way places. When the second Rallosian war came, the Iksar won their freedom from Lucan's enslavement by fighting for Freeport.When the Shattering occurred, Antonica was broken into pieces. One of these pieces formed the Isles of Refuge. These Isles were populated by refugees who had escaped from their hometowns because of the second Rallosian war, and thus could contain every starting race that had some sort of presence on Antonica before the Shattering. These included the Iksar who had escaped Lucan's enslavement. The Far Seas Trading Company, who had originally established the Isle of Refuge, rescued many people from the Isles of Refuge and brought them to what was called the Isle of Refuge, where these people could then ally themselves with either Qeynos or Freeport, depending on the acceptance of their race in those cities.This is the lore of EQ2. Most of what I've said about the Isle of Refuge and the FSTC was covered in the thread I linked earlier. This does not mean that you can't play as an Iksar who was part of Venril's Empire, just that most of the Iksar, even before the Isle of Refuge change, were never even on Kunark. Your idea of a majority of Iksar adventurers being from ships from Kunark that wrecked 10-20 years before the start of the game is not correct. This is what the entire argument that started in this thread has been about.

Zarafein

09-24-2007, 01:59 AM

well yes i also don't think most (old)iksar players are from kunark, and imo its almost 100% safe to assume that iksar players won't be able to join the empire of venril sathir. It could be possible from a mere lore perspective, but this is a game and the following points speak against it imo:1.No mention of iksar starting area so far, but for gorowyn2.There is no city for only one player race so far3.Places have to remain in stasis(another lore/roleplay problem).. well i also would like to see a freed felwithe(new tunaria) or rivervale, Kaladim and so on.. but all those places have many quests attached to them(+nameds and so on), i would even guess that we will be able to defeat venril sathir and the empire in rok, after that all iksars which joined him would be killed or enslaved or whatever.. so there is no point to join him since his empire may fall anyway.. but this wouldn't be visible, since everyone has to experience the content.

Uumuuanu

09-24-2007, 07:33 PM

The reality is, it would be too complex to program in the end. Nothing else need be said, that IS the reason.Don't believe me? Fine, then what is to stop the 7k plus high elves on lucan alone from going into New Tunaria and clearing EVERYTHING out. There is nothing that could possibly stop that many, not even Mayong. Oh wait, yes there is, the game. It simply wasn't programmed to handle player desired changes. If that were the case, the dark elves would have NEVER been found in Neriak, we wouldn't know it existed. Nek castle and Mistmoore Caslte would be the guild halls of Ne Plus Ultra or some other uber raiding guild, not an instance for us to play in. Freeport would have LONG ago killed off Qeynos or visaversa. Simply put, the game cannot handle these kind of player designed changes, get used to it. In reality, IF it could, the Iksar would have LONG ago taken over the entire planet of Norrath other then a few polar regions which they would keep at a starvational strangle hold by blockades. Iksar breed in larger broods, thus faster then any other race, they would have controlled simply by population alone. Since they are ruthless and do not care about the survival of other species, they would have killed ANY other species on sight due to their past abuses. There would be no one else living in Freeport, slowly but surely the Iksar would have killed them off, 500 years is long enough to brood MILLIONS of Iksar in Kunark, enough to swarm over any city and destroy all other species. With no challenger it would be a warrior breeding ground. The Sarnak, nope, all dead. There were never enough of them in EQ1 to have made any kind of resistance against the iksar population. Iksar wouldn't live in a city with softskins, they would slaughter them and use their bones to make more weapons. Ratonga, known for breeding LARGE litters would have been the only thing to stand in the way and they are too small to be of concern. You would see ratonga breeding pens where they were breed like farm animals, routinely cut up and eaten or fed to wargs or drogmar for food. Even the massive populations of orcs would stand no chance against MILLIONS of Iksar. Dragons, pfft nope. They simply do not breed fast enough to have survived. They would have been killed off or enslaved. 500 years would have been a ruthlessly slow and unending war of killing off every other civilization little by little until nothing other then Iksar stood on Norrath. Plain and simple. But no, thats not the way the game was designed. So no, you won't be able to go live in Kunark, sorry fellow Iksar, you are at the mercy of a merciless game.

Zarafein

09-24-2007, 10:17 PM

What tells you Iksar reproduce so much faster than other races? I found absolutly no evidence for that, they may breed in collectives and the brood mother or someone else tells their destiny thats all i found.. they don't breed millions in some hundred years, they had plenty of time in their history and never flooded the world with their sheer numbers, they won no war because they are so many either(green mist against shissar, sokokar+sarnak against dragons an so on). I'am also not sure if the high elves could realy swarm over new tunaria and clear everything out, there could be more renda'dal than koada'dal, since they shortend their lifespan.. I gues orcs and goblins reproduce faster than any player race.. altough we haven't seen any females yet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> oh and imo ogre's reproduce also very fast( altough slower than orcs and goblins) their empire rose so quickly and was known for their sheer numbers.. and now altough they were almost extinct we have more Ogre's in every corner of freeport than most other races.well this brings up 2 other lore/roleplay problems:1.Many places don't look like they should look from a lore perspective, well because this is just immpossible for the game(qeynos and freeport would have to be much bigger with +200.000 habitants for example)2.We know great stuff about dragons, sul'dal, everling familiy and so on, but many things that should be basic knowledge for a member of certain race are still unknown

Deadrus

09-24-2007, 11:23 PM

<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Again, I direct you Deadrus to the thread that I linked earlier in this thread about the Isle of Refuge. The Iksar taken to the Isle of Refuge were taken from the Isles of Refuge (note the s at the end of Isle) or taken from amongst the Iksar populace of Freeport and put directly on the Isle of Refuge. Even though I agree with the Darathar story, I do not see why Darathar would take so many people and do such a deed to them. The sheer numbers alone lead to the conclusion that not all of the adventurers before the Isle of Refuge change were in fact stranded at sea by Darathar.Very few of the Iksar, even before the Isle of Refuge change, were ever on Kunark. And those that were are represented by the few players who roleplay as such a character. This is an abhorrently small % of the Iksar population in Freeport.As for the taking a ship from Freeport that wrecked and then brought back to Freeport, this also does not, as you say, make sense. What does make sense, though, is people being taken from Freeport and brought by ship to the Isle of Refuge directly, most likely by the Far Seas Trading Company, as some sort of test that allows the the FSTC to remain on good terms with both Freeport and Qeynos, and provide FP and Qeynos a steady stream of new recruits. What you claimed to be the truth before the Isle of Refuge change just isn't so.The Iksar that we play as are descendants from wrecked ships that were wrecked before the second Rallosian war. There were no other shipwrecks documented in Iksar history. That's the way it is. These ships were an invasion force heading for Faydwer. They wrecked, and survivors washed ashore near Freeport, where Lucan enslaved as many of them as he could find. Those who escaped Lucan's enslavement probably hid in out of the way places. When the second Rallosian war came, the Iksar won their freedom from Lucan's enslavement by fighting for Freeport.When the Shattering occurred, Antonica was broken into pieces. One of these pieces formed the Isles of Refuge. These Isles were populated by refugees who had escaped from their hometowns because of the second Rallosian war, and thus could contain every starting race that had some sort of presence on Antonica before the Shattering. These included the Iksar who had escaped Lucan's enslavement. The Far Seas Trading Company, who had originally established the Isle of Refuge, rescued many people from the Isles of Refuge and brought them to what was called the Isle of Refuge, where these people could then ally themselves with either Qeynos or Freeport, depending on the acceptance of their race in those cities.This is the lore of EQ2. Most of what I've said about the Isle of Refuge and the FSTC was covered in the thread I linked earlier. This does not mean that you can't play as an Iksar who was part of Venril's Empire, just that most of the Iksar, even before the Isle of Refuge change, were never even on Kunark. Your idea of a majority of Iksar adventurers being from ships from Kunark that wrecked 10-20 years before the start of the game is not correct. This is what the entire argument that started in this thread has been about.</blockquote>You are missing the point. The whole Darathar story is why the people are on the island of refuge untill the change. (and yes i konw there is more then one but the point is before the change we were refugees lost at see. The guy pretty much says so on the ship we pulled you up or something he said.) So any race could be from ANYWHERE includeing there ancestrial home some other ship that was wreck even from freeport because there is a pre-existing population of iksar in freeport. But thats not to say that most of the couldnt have been from Kunark before the Island of refuge change. All iksar after the change would most definately be from freeport i have no problem with this. Thease ships could have been wrecked right as the game started we dont know. And i would have thought most iksar would have like to think that if they started at launch they could have been from kunark. The shear number alone that Darathar would have taken means absoulutely NOTHING in a game like everquest. How many people do you see with the Stien of mogok for istance? You kill the guys and get the peices from them and then reasemble it. Its just "impossible" for them to have enought peices ot make how ever many thousands that people have won form compleating the quest. So shear number means nothing. Cuz there are very well thousands of thease different items in the game that really arent all that rare if people actualy do the quest. So your argument that Darathar couldnt have goten so many people just doent hold water. And it was like almost a year (if not longer) before the acutaly changed this island of refuge. Still droping people off in the water years (in game) after he started doing it. Sorry for the misspellings im kinda tired and i took out my contacts so if the spelling is worse the normal i appologise.

Gasheron

09-25-2007, 01:03 AM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are missing the point. The whole Darathar story is why the people are on the island of refuge untill the change. (and yes i konw there is more then one but the point is before the change we were refugees lost at see. The guy pretty much says so on the ship we pulled you up or something he said.) So any race could be from ANYWHERE includeing there ancestrial home some other ship that was wreck even from freeport because there is a pre-existing population of iksar in freeport. But thats not to say that most of the couldnt have been from Kunark before the Island of refuge change. All iksar after the change would most definately be from freeport i have no problem with this. Thease ships could have been wrecked right as the game started we dont know. And i would have thought most iksar would have like to think that if they started at launch they could have been from kunark. The shear number alone that Darathar would have taken means absoulutely NOTHING in a game like everquest. How many people do you see with the Stien of mogok for istance? You kill the guys and get the peices from them and then reasemble it. Its just "impossible" for them to have enought peices ot make how ever many thousands that people have won form compleating the quest. So shear number means nothing. Cuz there are very well thousands of thease different items in the game that really arent all that rare if people actualy do the quest. So your argument that Darathar couldnt have goten so many people just doent hold water. And it was like almost a year (if not longer) before the acutaly changed this island of refuge. Still droping people off in the water years (in game) after he started doing it. Sorry for the misspellings im kinda tired and i took out my contacts so if the spelling is worse the normal i appologise. </blockquote>I'm not going to respond to the rest, as I've already stated my view, and don't feel like restating things again. However, as to the statement in bold, you proved my point.Due to game mechanics, there are a HUGE number of Steins of Moggok in the world we play in. However, from a Lore perspective, a storyline perspective, there is only ONE Stein of Moggok. Just because 200,000 players have the item does not change that there is only one in existence in the Lore. The existence of so many is a game mechanic, put in only so everyone can experience the same thing. The numbers don't hold up in the Lore.For instance, surely there isn't the large number of Qeynos Claymores that are being wielded around the different servers. There's only one. But to allow everyone to have the same experience, SOE can't create unique items. It wouldn't be fair to the players. So, they put into the game the individual instance of the item.The same goes for many of the storylines currently active in the game. I don't think anyone can ever claim that Darathar has been killed the few hundred or even thousand times he has been in the game. The numbers don't add up. Every adventurer who has completed the questline couldn't have killed Darathar, at least from a Lore perspective. It's an instanced story, just for the particular character that the player is playing. It's the same story for every character, with that character in the exact same role. When you play one character in that story, then make a new character and go through it again, it's as if your first character never did it in the first place, but instead it's your current character.Let's see. Before the Isle of Refuge change how many different servers were there? I'll pick a low number and say, just as an example, 15. Now, with an estimate of 1,000 accounts per server, that comes to 15,000 characters. Assume at least 2 characters per account, and that's at least 30,000 characters. I'm sorry, but I don't see how Darathar could do what is claimed to 30,000 different people. Hell, I doubt that that many characters could exist, especially since adventurers only make up a small percentage of the total population of the playable races. Even if you go on a server by server basis, it's 2,000 people in the world that Darathar saw and said to himself "Hey, that person has potential. I might be able to use him later on."The numbers just don't make sense.From a Lore perspective, this can't be the whole truth behind the matter. Every adventurer that was created before the change couldn't have been chosen by Darathar. The numbers are too high. Which is where the lore about the Twilight Sea and the Far Seas Trading Company comes into play. With the inclusion of such Lore, one can get to at least an acceptable, plausible amount in relation to the numbers presented.

Deadrus

09-26-2007, 06:52 PM

<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's see. Before the Isle of Refuge change how many different servers were there? I'll pick a low number and say, just as an example, 15. Now, with an estimate of 1,000 accounts per server, that comes to 15,000 characters. Assume at least 2 characters per account, and that's at least 30,000 characters. I'm sorry, but I don't see how Darathar could do what is claimed to 30,000 different people. Hell, I doubt that that many characters could exist, especially since adventurers only make up a small percentage of the total population of the playable races. Even if you go on a server by server basis, it's 2,000 people in the world that Darathar saw and said to himself "Hey, that person has potential. I might be able to use him later on."The numbers just don't make sense.From a Lore perspective, this can't be the whole truth behind the matter. Every adventurer that was created before the change couldn't have been chosen by Darathar. The numbers are too high. Which is where the lore about the Twilight Sea and the Far Seas Trading Company comes into play. With the inclusion of such Lore, one can get to at least an acceptable, plausible amount in relation to the numbers presented.</blockquote>Your are talking about lore..... well your not getting it. Cuz the numbers you are makeing is starting with server numbers. Well that has NOTHING to do with lore becuase theoreticly there is just 1 norath. And servers would just for sake of simplicity be just and alternat dimentoin of the same world where more or less the same things happen. Your saying he picked 30,000 characters with your math but really hes doing that over differnt demintoins so it really isnt that imposible. PLUS and here's a big one IT's FANTASY GAME. He could have done alot much more then you number. And he was doing it over time. Lets say the Island of refuge change was when in the lore was when Darather "died for real" that was about a year into the actual game. Soo lets say thats like 5 years in game. Thats a WHOLE lot of people he could have brought. And untill the change in the island of Refuge that IS where we came from.